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Paul Williams
06-13-2007, 06:07 PM
Salam

I am a new Muslim from London (from a Christian background). For all my adult life I have known that I am homosexual. This was not something I chose. I completly accept the ruling of Islam concerning the place of intimacy only for those who are married.

My question is this: I have heard Muslims say that I should get married, and that marriage itself is half of Islam, that it will sort out my problem.

Is this really true? What would you advise?

thank you for your help
Reply

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Ra`eesah
06-13-2007, 06:39 PM
Wasalaam

Yes its true, but only if you will be marrying a woman?
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saira-k
06-13-2007, 06:41 PM
yeh in islam homosexuality is completel haraam
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zaria
06-13-2007, 06:44 PM
As Salaamu Alaikum,

Alhamduillah that you have embraced islam. May Allah Ta'ala make is easy for you and make you of the pious muslims. Marriages protects the private parts from zina but homosexuality is forbidding in Islam as well. Pray to Allah Ta'ala to take that feeling away from you and to bless you with a wonderful wife (women) to fulfill all of your desires.
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HBot 5000
06-13-2007, 06:57 PM
:sl:


Refutation of those who excuse homosexuals on the grounds that this is the way they were created

http://www.islamqa.com/index.php?ref...txt=homosexual

Question:
Salaam. I'm not gay but I'm just wondering from a moral standpoint that since homosexuality is forbidden under Islam, what would happen to gay or lesbian individuals? A lot of gay and lesbians say that their sexual orientation is natural and they are born gay. Assuming that they are correct since straight people don't know, if homosexuality is outlawed in Islam then why would Allah make them that way so that their existence is a tortured and sexually frustrated way?

Answer:

Praise be to Allaah.

We do not agree with their claim that their sexual orientation is natural; rather it is a distortion of nature. Allaah counted their deed as wrongdoing and immoral, and He sent upon the people of Lut a punishment the like of which no other nation had seen. He also tells us that this punishment is not ever far from the wrongdoers.

Their claim that their orientation is natural serves only to propagate and spread immorality, and it is just an excuse for them. Many of them change their appearance so as to look odd, so how can we say that this is how they were created?

Allaah does not create anyone just to punish or torture them. He created mankind to worship Him, but He may try His slaves with hardship as a test of their faith, to expiate for their sins and to raise their status. Allaah is too Just to force a person to commit sin and then punish him. On the contrary, people commit sins by their own free choice – like these perverted people – and it is for this that they deserve to be punished. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“and your Lord treats no one with injustice” [al-Kahf 18:49]

And Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“Nay, Allaah never commands Fahshaa’ (evil deeds, unlawful sexual intercourse). Do you say of Allaah what you know not?” [al-A’raaf 7:28]

And Allaah knows best.

Islam Q&A
Sheikh Muhammed Salih Al-Munajjid

:w:
Reply

HBot 5000
06-13-2007, 07:00 PM
:sl:

Tawbah (repentance) from homosexuality

http://www.islamqa.com/index.php?ref...txt=homosexual

Question:
What is required of the man who repents homosexuality?

Answer:

It is obligatory on both of them - the active and the passive partners - to repent to Allah urgently, passionately and sincerely for no worse combination of punishments was sent by Allah as the ones in the case of the people of Lut (asws), who used to commit this filthy crime. The combination of punishments was as follows:

1. They were blinded and left groping, as Allah said, “fa-tamasna a’yoonahum” (i.e., blinded them).
2. A thunderous cry (tore their hearts) (al-sayha)
3. Their homes were turned upside down.
4. Allah rained upon them a storm of stones of baked clay prepared specifically for them and destroyed them completely.

Accordingly the punishment if Islam for sodomy is death whether the two involved are married or unmarried. Said the Prophet (peace be upon him): “Whomsoever you find committing the act, kill them: both the active and the passive partners.” (Abu Dawood, Tirmidhi, and Ibn Majah, authenticated sahih by al-Albani, Arwaa’ ul-Ghaleel 2350)



Excerpted from the book I Want to Repent but



:w:
Reply

HBot 5000
06-13-2007, 07:01 PM
:sl:

Muslim attitude towards the sin of homosexuality

http://www.islamqa.com/index.php?ref...txt=homosexual

Question:
Dear sir,

How are you? I am currently researching issues related to Homosexual persecution In Asia, especially Malaysia. I hope that you could kindly help answer a few of my questions.

1)How are homosexuals (Muslim & non-muslim) being treated in Malaysia?
2)How severe will the punishment be?
3)How does society perceive homosexuals?
4)Is homosexuality legal?

Thank you very much for your kind help.


Answer:

Praise be to Allaah.

We do not have any information about homosexuality in Malaysia, but we assume that the Muslims there feel total abhorrence towards this shameful act, because their religion, Islam, emphatically forbids this deed and prescribes a severe punishment for it, in this world and the next. How could it be otherwise, when the Prophet of Islam (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: "Whoever you find committing the sin of the people of Lut (Lot), kill them, both the one who does it and the one to whom it is done" - i.e. if it is done with consent. (This hadeeth was narrated by al-Tirmidhi in his Sunan, 1376)

The scholars of Islam, such as Maalik, al-Shaafi'i, Ahmad and Ishaaq said that (the person guilty of this crime) should be stoned, whether he is married or unmarried.

There is no doubt that this act, which goes against the pure human nature created by Allaah, by making men content with men and women with women, destroying families, adversely affecting the birth rate, causing the spread of killer diseases, harming the innocent when children are raped, and generally spreading corruption on earth, should be uprooted and stamped out.

Perhaps your research will lead you to find out much more about this religion with its great laws and accurate rules and the wisdom of the One Who revealed it.

I ask Allaah to grant you help and success, for Allaah is the One Who guides to the Straight Path.


Islam Q&A
Sheikh Muhammed Salih Al-Munajjid


:w:
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HBot 5000
06-13-2007, 07:03 PM
:sl:

Ruling on being alone with a homosexual

http://www.islamqa.com/index.php?ref...txt=homosexual

Question:
What is the ruling on being alone with a homosexual?

Answer:

Praise be to Allaah.

We put this question to Shaykh ‘Abd-Allaah ibn Jibreen, may Allaah preserve him, who answered as follows:

If he feels certain that this will pose no temptation (fitnah), then it is OK.

Islam Q&A
Sheikh Muhammed Salih Al-Munajjid

:w:
Reply

HBot 5000
06-13-2007, 07:05 PM
:sl:

Why does Islam forbid lesbianism and homosexuality?

http://www.islamqa.com/index.php?ref...ln=eng&txt=gay

Question:
Could you please tell me that why is a homosexuality a sin in islam? I know it’s a great sin but my question is why? I haven't able to find the real reason why? So، if you could can you also tell me that what Allah has says in Quran or in hadith about it. Please let me know as soon as possible.

Answer:
Praise be to Allaah.

The Muslim should not doubt, even for an instant, that what Allaah has prescribed is wise. He should know that there is great wisdom in what Allaah has commanded and what He has forbidden; it is the straight path and is the only way in which man can be safe and at peace, protecting his honour, his mind and his health, in accordance with the natural disposition (fitrah) with which Allaah has created man.

Some heretics have tried to attack Islam and its rulings; they have denounced divorce and plural marriage and permitted alcohol. Those who look at the state of their societies will see the state of misery which those societies have reached.

When they rejected divorce, murder took its place. When they rejected plural marriage, men started to take mistresses instead. When they allowed alcohol, all kinds of shameful and immoral actions became widespread.

They (gays and lesbians) both go against the natural disposition (fitrah) which Allaah has created in mankind – and also in animals – whereby the male is inclined towards the female, and vice versa.
Whoever goes against that goes against the natural disposition of mankind, the fitrah.

The spread of homosexuality has caused man diseases which neither the east nor the west can deny exist because of them. Even if the only result of this perversion was AIDS – which attacks the immune system in humans – that would be enough.

It also causes the breakup of the family and leads people to give up their work and study because they are preoccupied with these perversions.

Since the prohibition has come from his Lord, the Muslim should not wait until medicine proves that harm befalls the one who does that which Allaah has forbidden. Rather he must believe firmly that Allaah only prescribes that which is good for people, and these modern discoveries should only increase his certainty and confidence in the greatness of Allaah’s wisdom.

Ibn al-Qayyim said:

Both of them – fornication and homosexuality – involve immorality that goes against the wisdom of Allaah’s creation and commandment. For homosexuality involves innumerable evil and harms, and the one to whom it is done would be better off being killed than having this done to him, because after that he will become so evil and so corrupt that there can be no hope of his being reformed, and all good is lost for him, and he will no longer feel any shame before Allaah or before His creation. The semen of the one who did that to him will act as a poison on his body and soul. The scholars differed as to whether the one to whom it is done will ever enter Paradise. There are two opinions which I heard Shaykh al-Islam (may Allaah have mercy on him) narrate.”

(al-Jawaab al-Kaafi, p. 115).

2. Lesbianism means one woman doing to another something like that which a man does to a woman. Homosexuality means having intercourse with males in the back passage. This was the action of the accursed people of the Prophet of Allaah Loot (peace be upon him). In sharee’ah terminology it refers to inserting the tip of the penis into the anus of a male.

What is mentioned concerning these actions in the Qur’aan and Sunnah:

A – Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“And (remember) Loot (Lot), when he said to his people: ‘Do you commit the worst sin such as none preceding you has committed in the ‘Aalameen (mankind and jinn)?

Verily, you practise your lusts on men instead of women. Nay, but you are a people transgressing beyond bounds (by committing great sins)’”

[al-A’raaf 7:80-81]

B – “Verily, We sent against them a violent storm of stones (which destroyed them all), except the family of Loot (Lot), them We saved in the last hour of the night”

[al-Qamar 54:34 – interpretation of the meaning]

C – “And (remember) Loot (Lot), when he said to his people: ‘Do you commit the worst sin such as none preceding you has committed in the ‘Aalameen (mankind and jinn)?”

[al-A’raaf 7:80 – interpretation of the meaning]

And Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“And (remember) Loot (Lot), when he said to his people: ‘You commit Al‑Faahishah (sodomy the worst sin) which none has preceded you in (committing) it in the ‘Aalameen (mankind and jinn)’”

[al-‘Ankaboot 29:28]

D – “And (remember) Loot (Lot), We gave him Hukm (right judgement of the affairs and Prophethood) and (religious) knowledge, and We saved him from the town (folk) who practised Al‑Khabaa’ith (evil, wicked and filthy deeds). Verily, they were a people given to evil, and were Faasiqoon (rebellious, disobedient to Allaah)”

[al-Anbiya’ 21:74 – interpretation of the meaning]

E – “And (remember) Loot (Lot)! When he said to his people, ‘Do you commit Al‑Faahishah (evil, great sin, every kind of unlawful sexual intercourse, sodomy) while you see (one another doing evil without any screen)

Do you practise your lusts on men instead of women? Nay, but you are a people who behave senselessly.’

There was no other answer given by his people except that they said: ‘Drive out the family of Loot (Lot) from your city. Verily, these are men who want to be clean and pure!’

So We saved him and his family, except his wife. We destined her to be of those who remained behind.

And We rained down on them a rain (of stones). So evil was the rain of those who were warned”

[al-Naml 27:54-58 – interpretation of the meaning]

These verses refer to the punishment that befell the people of Loot. With regard to the rulings on them:

F – Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning]:

“And the two persons (man and woman) among you who commit illegal sexual intercourse, hurt them both. And if they repent (promise Allaah that they will never repeat, i.e. commit illegal sexual intercourse and other similar sins) and do righteous good deeds, leave them alone. Surely, Allaah is Ever All-Forgiving (the One Who forgives and accepts repentance), (and He is) Most Merciful”

[al-Nisa’ 4:16]

Ibn Katheer said:

“The words of Allaah ‘And the two persons (man and woman) among you who commit illegal sexual intercourse, hurt them both’ mean, those who commit immoral actions, punish them both. Ibn ‘Abbaas (may Allaah be pleased with him), Sa’eed ibn Jubayr and others said: By condemning them, shaming them and hitting them with shoes. This was the ruling until Allaah abrogated it and replaced it with whipping and stoning. ‘Ikrimah, ‘Ata, al-Hasan and ‘Abd-Allaah ibn Katheer said: This was revealed concerning a man and woman who commit fornication. Al-Saddi said, it was revealed concerning young people before they get married. Mujaahid said: it was revealed concerning two men if they admit it bluntly; a hint is not sufficient – as if he was referring to homosexuality. And Allaah knows best.”

(Tafseer Ibn Katheer, 1/463).

G – It was narrated that Jaabir (may Allaah be pleased with him): “The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: ‘There is nothing I fear for my ummah more than the deed of the people of Loot.’”

(Narrated by al-Tirmidhi, 1457; Ibn Maajah, 2563. This hadeeth was classed as saheeh by Shaykh al-Albaani (may Allaah have mercy on him) in Saheeh al-Jaami’, no. 1552).

H – It was narrated that Ibn ‘Abbaas said: “The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “… cursed is the one who has intercourse with an animal, cursed is the one who does the action of the people of Loot.”

(Narrated by Ahmad, 1878. This hadeeth was classed as saheeh by Shaykh al-Albaani in Saheeh al-Jaami’, no. 5891).

I – It was narrated that Ibn ‘Abbaas said: “The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: ‘Whoever you find doing the deed of the people of Loot, kill the one who does it and the one to whom it is done.”

(Narrated by al-Tirmidhi, 1456; Abu Dawood, 4462; Ibn Maajah, 2561. This hadeeth was classed as saheeh by Shaykh al-Albaani in Saheeh al-Jaami’, no. 6589).

And Allaah knows best.

Islam Q&A
Sheikh Muhammed Salih Al-Munajjid


:w:
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Medina83
06-13-2007, 07:06 PM
Welcome to Islam Paul :welcome:

May Allah swt bless you and help you in your struggles.
Reply

glo
06-13-2007, 08:16 PM
Originally Posted by Paul Williams
Salam

I am a new Muslim from London (from a Christian background). For all my adult life I have known that I am homosexual. This was not something I chose. I completly accept the ruling of Islam concerning the place of intimacy only for those who are married.

My question is this: I have heard Muslims say that I should get married, and that marriage itself is half of Islam, that it will sort out my problem.

Is this really true? What would you advise?

thank you for your help
Just a few questions spring to mind. (Bear in mind that I am not a Muslim)

Would you be honest to your future wife about your homosexuality?
Do you feel you will be able to have sexual desires for your future wife? If not, how will you explain this to her?

Sexuality is an important part in any marriage. Don't take it lightly!

May you find an answer to your questions.

Peace
Reply

Paul Williams
06-13-2007, 08:30 PM
Salam

thanks for all the replies.

Many of them centred around the punishments for homosexuals who break God's commands. But my question was whether marriage (to a woman!) was mandatory for people like me in Islam.
Reply

Muezzin
06-13-2007, 08:40 PM
Originally Posted by Paul Williams
Salam

thanks for all the replies.

Many of them centred around the punishments for homosexuals who break God's commands. But my question was whether marriage (to a woman!) was mandatory for people like me in Islam.
I don't know if it's mandatory or not.

I do know that it's a very important decision that you have to make for yourself, and ensure that it's not just a 'cover' or 'closet'. It has to be real, or it will fall apart.

I'm not saying you must or must not get married, I'm just trying to say that you need to really see for yourself if you could do it. If you look into yourself and think 'yeah, I could do that, I'm not doing it to hide anything, I'm doing it because it's something I truly want to do to fulfil my faith', go for it. But if it's like 'well... I'm only doing it to cover something up and be accepted', it's probably not a good idea to get married.

I'm not an imam or a mufti, so take what I've said with a grain of salt if you wish. I am a human being and your brother in Islam though, and as such, tried to think of the most realistic thing I could in the circumstances.
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- Qatada -
06-13-2007, 08:45 PM
Wa alaikum as-Salaam bro Phil.



There is research from both sides (i.e. there are two opinions; 1 that it is genetic, while others disagree and state it is environmental only, but i'm not to judge since i don't know your situation.) However, regarding your question, when Prophet Lut (Lot) went to his people, he said:

"Of all the creatures in the world, will ye approach males,

"And leave those whom Allah has created for you to be your mates (i.e. wives)? Nay, ye are a people transgressing (all limits)!"


[Qur'an 26: 165-166]

So we see that Prophet Lut went to call his people to use the permissible means of marriage (instead of homosexuality) to women (and since he's a prophet of Allaah, then he must have known that this is the better and beneficial alternative.)


I invite you to check this link since another person is in a similar situation to you:

http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/S...berCounselingE


And there are also muslim gay helplines which you may want to check out, maybe you can talk to other muslims who are going through a similar experience?

http://gaymuslims.wordpress.com/



I pray that Allaah eases your affairs brother, and gives you ease in this life and the one to come, ameen.
Reply

جوري
06-13-2007, 11:24 PM
perhaps this is your trial in this life, akhi?... and I can understand how tribulations can make life so very difficult. It hurts me that a Muslims bros is troubled, so all I can offer is prayer that Insha'Allah, sobhano wata'ala eases your troubles and rewards you.

Perhaps you should discuss this with a Muslim scholar who is also a doctor of psychiatry? Just so you can have someone to talk to, who will also give you religious advise and give you some counseling on how to handle some of your more difficult worldly affairs.
:w:
Reply

.:Umniyah:.
06-13-2007, 11:58 PM
Originally Posted by Paul Williams
Salam

thanks for all the replies.

Many of them centred around the punishments for homosexuals who break God's commands. But my question was whether marriage (to a woman!) was mandatory for people like me in Islam.
Well bro technically its not mandatory on anyone to get married. Being in your situation or not. So there wouldnt be a question of anyone 'having' to get married if they don't want to. But then if you feel like it would be befitting and pleasing to you then by all means fulfill it, and inshaaAllah it would be good for you. If you feel like youre not exactly ready or your emotions cling to men entiry too much, then i would say wait until you get a better balance or until it disappears entirely before considering marriage. Because being honest if youre not attracted to women then it would affect how you interact with her, you'd never truly love her, even if you care about her as a muslim and a person, and you wouldnt be whole hearted with her. And thats just a tad bit unfair for her.

But above all that make plenty of Dua , asking Allah to make easy your hardship and to change you back to what is upright in his eyes Ameen!

Originally Posted by Fi_Sabilillah
Wa alaikum as-Salaam bro Phil.



There is research from both sides (i.e. there are two opinions; 1 that it is genetic, while others disagree and state it is environmental only, but i'm not to judge since i don't know your situation.) However, regarding your question, when Prophet Lut (Lot) went to his people, he said:

"Of all the creatures in the world, will ye approach males,

"And leave those whom Allah has created for you to be your mates (i.e. wives)? Nay, ye are a people transgressing (all limits)!"


[Qur'an 26: 165-166]


So we see that Prophet Lut went to call his people to use the permissible means of marriage (instead of homosexuality) to women (and since he's a prophet of Allaah, then he must have known that this is the better and beneficial alternative.)
I pray that Allaah eases your affairs brother, and gives you ease in this life and the one to come, ameen.
I don't think that it means its a better alternative , or i dont believe thats the point. I think the point was just because its not premissible and the correct way is to marry women if you desire marriage. Or maybe im misunderstanding the point youre trying to make. But how i understood it , it seems like you mean for someone whos having that problem its better they get married ?:? i dont intend debate or anything, im just asking clarification is all.

Allahu 3lim
Reply

Mawaddah
06-14-2007, 12:52 PM
:sl:

Marriage can either be one of four things :

1) Waajib, and this is for the person who fears that they will fall into sin if they dont marry.

2) Mustahab, and this is in accordance to the Sunnah of the Prophet, because since he peace be upon him married, we should try to follow his sunnah.

3) Makrooh (Disliked)

4) Haram, and this is for the person who knows that he is in a situation unfit to have a wife, or if he knows that he is going to harm his wife or himself or others by it.In this case, someone who feels that he is unable to give his wife her rights.

Brother, If you feel that you are going to do your wife injustice if you marry, then dont marry,because you will just be adding sin onto yourself by harming another Muslim, but if you feel strongly that it is going to help with this situation of yours, then by all means marry and enter into the marriage after having made Salaatul Istikhaarah and placing trust into Allah that He will make this marriage be a solution for you Insha'allah.

Wallahu A'lam
Reply

IbnAbdulHakim
06-14-2007, 12:55 PM
Originally Posted by Paul Williams
Salam

I am a new Muslim from London (from a Christian background). For all my adult life I have known that I am homosexual. This was not something I chose. I completly accept the ruling of Islam concerning the place of intimacy only for those who are married.

My question is this: I have heard Muslims say that I should get married, and that marriage itself is half of Islam, that it will sort out my problem.

Is this really true? What would you advise?

thank you for your help

assalamu alaikum :)

brother homosexuality started from the people of Lut (alaihissalaam) and is therefore not a genetic disease as some people call it. It is simply the shaytaans whispers, brother you are NOT a homosexual, im sure if you made dua' to Allah and got married you will be fine inshaAllah.

just let your spouse know your condition before marriage inshaAllah :)
Reply

.:Umniyah:.
06-14-2007, 09:12 PM
Originally Posted by IbnAbdulHakim
assalamu alaikum :)

just let your spouse know your condition before marriage inshaAllah :)
why?:? i saw someone ask if he would tell his wife. Do you really think thats needed:? i dunno i just think its useless information and its going to benefit at all...

Allahu 3lim
Reply

glo
06-14-2007, 09:23 PM
Originally Posted by .:Umniyah:.
why?:? i saw someone ask if he would tell his wife. Do you really think thats needed:? i dunno i just think its useless information and its going to benefit at all...

Allahu 3lim
If I found out that my husband was homosexual and knew it before he married me, but chose not to tell me, I would feel utterly betrayed!

Trust and honesty are two important foundations of any marriage.
Having an awareness that her husband is not likely to have any sexual desires for her are of utmost importance to his future wife!

I am not saying that there won't be women who would be willing to enter into such a marriage ... but they do need to know the truth!
Please don't think you can build a marriage on such a lie without it backfiring on you.
Reply

Trumble
06-14-2007, 09:24 PM
Originally Posted by Paul Williams
Many of them centred around the punishments for homosexuals who break God's commands. But my question was whether marriage (to a woman!) was mandatory for people like me in Islam.
If you are gay you should be not be getting married; what sort of life would your wife have? No scholar is necessary to establish that. If you want to follow Islamic teachings your only option would appear to be staying single and celibate - maybe that is your trial. As opposed to trying maintain some sham of a marriage for appearances sake and destroying the life of another human being, anyway.
Reply

Paul Williams
06-14-2007, 10:39 PM
Salam

I just wanted to say that I have read all the posts carefully and I really appreciate the thoughtful advice and wise counsel.

thank you!

Bilal
Reply

.:Umniyah:.
06-15-2007, 12:54 AM
Originally Posted by Mawaddah
:sl:

Marriage can either be one of four things :

1) Waajib, and this is for the person who fears that they will fall into sin if they dont marry.

2) Mustahab, and this is in accordance to the Sunnah of the Prophet, because since he peace be upon him married, we should try to follow his sunnah.

3) Makrooh (Disliked)

4) Haram, and this is for the person who knows that he is in a situation unfit to have a wife, or if he knows that he is going to harm his wife or himself or others by it.In this case, someone who feels that he is unable to give his wife her rights.

Brother, If you feel that you are going to do your wife injustice if you marry, then dont marry,because you will just be adding sin onto yourself by harming another Muslim, but if you feel strongly that it is going to help with this situation of yours, then by all means marry and enter into the marriage after having made Salaatul Istikhaarah and placing trust into Allah that He will make this marriage be a solution for you Insha'allah.

Wallahu A'lam
hm..where does this come from? and what adeelah do they use for each?
Reply

.:Umniyah:.
06-15-2007, 01:00 AM
Originally Posted by glo
If I found out that my husband was homosexual and knew it before he married me, but chose not to tell me, I would feel utterly betrayed!

Trust and honesty are two important foundations of any marriage.
Having an awareness that her husband is not likely to have any sexual desires for her are of utmost importance to his future wife!

I am not saying that there won't be women who would be willing to enter into such a marriage ... but they do need to know the truth!
Please don't think you can build a marriage on such a lie without it backfiring on you.
gee okay, dont kill me, i was only wondering. but i didnt mean in this sense, i thought the whole point of the situation was that he was trying to GET OVER it, not drag it along with him in his new life, and new marriage.

Most times when people have had a troubled past and a few skeletons in yoru closet, and youre trying to start a new life, and make a better person out of yourself, you dont just go around broadcasting it all over the place. I mean, that counterproductive to me. The point is to build a new life, with new ideas and new goals, not to have a wife who 'accepts' you as you are, and willing to bear with you. No you want to talk and think about your situatin as less as possible.

To me , if his wife knows then he doesnt realy have anything to hide, whereas making him more comfortable ( TO ME, just how i view it) but if its something he is ashamed of, and dont like that anybody ESPECIALLY his wife knows, its a better struggle that he strives to fight against.

And besides if he marrys a women who doesnt mind, wouldnt that kind of make him 'not mind'...hence blowing over his entire attempt to marry a WOMEN to change?:?

Allahu 3lim...i dont know, i just view it like that.

*throws up a white flag* no debate intended i was only curious as to why you guys thought he should :)

:peace:
Reply

ranma1/2
06-15-2007, 05:04 AM
Originally Posted by Paul Williams
Salam

I am a new Muslim from London (from a Christian background). For all my adult life I have known that I am homosexual. This was not something I chose. I completly accept the ruling of Islam concerning the place of intimacy only for those who are married.

My question is this: I have heard Muslims say that I should get married, and that marriage itself is half of Islam, that it will sort out my problem.

Is this really true? What would you advise?

thank you for your help
Good luck, i myself being an atheists "and even when i was christian as a kid" do not see any problem with homosexuality. I sincerly doubt that if there is agod it will be angry if you love someone of the same sex. "why should it be angry about how it made you?"

Good luck and I wish you happy future.
Reply

skhalid
06-15-2007, 08:05 AM
I had a friend who was homo...
and he thought the only way to stop or prevent himself from zina and his attraction? to the opposite sex was to marry..and alhamdulillah he did get married (to a woman ofcourse) and now he's very happy and has 2 small little girls bless*
Reply

.:Umniyah:.
06-15-2007, 08:12 AM
Originally Posted by ranma1/2
Good luck, i myself being an atheists "and even when i was christian as a kid" do not see any problem with homosexuality. I sincerly doubt that if there is agod it will be angry if you love someone of the same sex. "why should it be angry about how it made you?"

Good luck and I wish you happy future.
you keep telling yourself that homosexuality is natural.

The first step to recovery is admitting you have a problem aka, not being in denial.

So stop being in denial , everyone knows its nothing natural about that. If it were , everyone would be like that, natural things happen to everyone, not select indivuals.

I guess you would say its natural to be attracted to animals too eh? Cuz people do that too.

*sigh* the minds of people who try to get around all rules and consequences no matter how dumb their concepts sound.

anyhow, this thread isnt about what you think anyway, its about someone asking for help. Dont go off topic.

:peace:
Reply

.:Umniyah:.
06-15-2007, 08:14 AM
Originally Posted by skhalid
I had a friend who was homo...
and he thought the only way to stop or prevent himself from zina and his attraction? to the opposite sex was to marry..and alhamdulillah he did get married (to a woman ofcourse) and now he's very happy and has 2 small little girls bless*
maybe the bro can talk to your friend then? and your friend can share his methods of overcoming it:?
Reply

sister herb
06-15-2007, 08:28 AM
Originally Posted by Paul Williams
Salam

I am a new Muslim from London (from a Christian background). For all my adult life I have known that I am homosexual. This was not something I chose. I completly accept the ruling of Islam concerning the place of intimacy only for those who are married.

My question is this: I have heard Muslims say that I should get married, and that marriage itself is half of Islam, that it will sort out my problem.

Is this really true? What would you advise?

thank you for your help
Salam alaykum my new brother in Islam

My advice might to be different than others. Of my mind you should marriage with your soul mate, who you really love (just same if this is male or female), make good things to others and remember that Allah is mercyfull. Everybody of us are sinners. He has made you what you are and seems he made your path more hard than others.

Every religions say homosexuality is haraam by the way.


Your sister in Islam
Reply

ranma1/2
06-15-2007, 08:43 AM
Originally Posted by .:Umniyah:.
you keep telling yourself that homosexuality is natural.

The first step to recovery is admitting you have a problem aka, not being in denial.

So stop being in denial , everyone knows its nothing natural about that. If it were , everyone would be like that, natural things happen to everyone, not select indivuals.

I guess you would say its natural to be attracted to animals too eh? Cuz people do that too.

*sigh* the minds of people who try to get around all rules and consequences no matter how dumb their concepts sound.

anyhow, this thread isnt about what you think anyway, its about someone asking for help. Dont go off topic.

:peace:
i only said that i dont think god would be angry if you loved someone and they loved you back. "im talking about more than just sex but bonds as well"
if you wish to discuss wether it is natural or not you can create a seperate thread.

back to the original poster.

I wish you happyness and good luck.
Reply

sister herb
06-15-2007, 08:55 AM
Originally Posted by ranma1/2
I wish you happyness and good luck.
We are not here to judge others. We are here to tell the beauty of life and enjoy about it with others. We are different, all of us. Me too wish you a good luck in your path. :statisfie

I pray Allah will make your path easy to walk.
Reply

glo
06-15-2007, 09:41 AM
Can we try not to derail posts in the cyber counselling section, please?
This place is for people who are troubled and need help. I am sure they don't want to have to read through arguments and disgreements between other posters ... :-[
Reply

IbnAbdulHakim
06-15-2007, 09:44 AM
Originally Posted by .:Umniyah:.
why?:? i saw someone ask if he would tell his wife. Do you really think thats needed:? i dunno i just think its useless information and its going to benefit at all...

Allahu 3lim
lol ur weird

its just so that the wife can KNOW what shes getting into. we dont want the wife do be deceived right :)
Reply

جوري
06-15-2007, 03:54 PM
Originally Posted by Paul Williams
Salam

I just wanted to say that I have read all the posts carefully and I really appreciate the thoughtful advice and wise counsel.

thank you!

Bilal
:sl: Akhi
Before the topic meanders over the place, I wanted to let you know, that if you are in NY or NJ, and wanted some counseling from both a psychological and religious level, I can FWD you the contacts of a Muslim psychiatrist. If so just drop me a note. Though I am sure there is no shortage in your area, also I am enclosing this site where you are free to
Ask a scholar, and I am sure not only will they answer your questions but also put you in touch with the right parties to further help you in your area. I think at this level everyone is giving you a subjective view, and I am not sure if it is really helping you... before long I sense discord between the members which is always bound to happen where point of views differ... but this is about you, not them...

from my heart I sincerely wish you the very best, under the light and guidance of Allah sobhano wa'ta3la
:w:
Reply

.:Umniyah:.
06-15-2007, 08:10 PM
Originally Posted by IbnAbdulHakim
lol ur weird

its just so that the wife can KNOW what shes getting into. we dont want the wife do be deceived right :)
thats how you feel. i just disagree, has nothing to do with me being weird.
Reply

Paul Williams
06-16-2007, 02:46 PM
Salam

I divide my time between living in London and France. I have been receiving counselling about this (and other matters) for a couple of years now. I don't think I need a psychiatrist. What I have read on this site is genuinely helpful. But I am certainly not ready for marriage. I guess I was testing the water to see if all muslims are obligated to marry regardless if one's desires are hetrosexual or not. I think the near unanimous answer is no, not least because it would be unfair on the other spouse.
Reply

- Qatada -
06-16-2007, 03:04 PM
Originally Posted by Panther

Stick to your love of Allah. At least he's a guy, right?

And none is like Him.

[Qur'an 112:4]


Refer to this thread for more info:
http://www.islamicboard.com/islamic-...ah-gender.html


Don't delete this reply, it was a joke!

I think the majority of the people on this forum never found it funny.
Reply

Panther
06-16-2007, 03:06 PM
Originally Posted by - Qatada -
And none is like Him.

[Qur'an 112:4]


Refer to this thread for more info:
http://www.islamicboard.com/islamic-...ah-gender.html





I think the majority of the people on this forum never found it funny.
I know there's some out there from which I'd earn a chuckle. You people just don't have a sense of humour. :P

And yes, I know "Allah" is not a guy. As I said, it was a joke. Again with the oy.
Reply

Abdul Fattah
06-16-2007, 03:14 PM
Originally Posted by Panther
I know there's some out there from which I'd earn a chuckle. You people just don't have a sense of humour. :P

And yes, I know "Allah" is not a guy. As I said, it was a joke. Again with the oy.
It has nothing to do with sense of humor but moreso with knowledge. The more one becomes familiar with a certain topic the less witty some jokes regarding it seem. For example the more familiar you become with a specific race, the less funnier racist jokes become. Or if your mom is is in a wheelchair, the chance of of finding handicap jokes funny diminishes also. It is because one's knowledge on a topic can show how serious a matter is. To you the allusion might have seemed refreshing, for us it sounded childish and not witty at all(no offense intended).
Reply

Panther
06-16-2007, 03:17 PM
Originally Posted by Abdul Fattah
It has nothing to do with sense of humor but moreso with knowledge. The more one becomes familiar with a certain topic the less witty some jokes regarding it seem. For example the more familiar you become with a specific race, the less funnier racist jokes become. Or if your mom is is in a wheelchair, the chance of of finding handicap jokes funny diminishes also. It is because one's knowledge on a topic can show how serious a matter is. To you the allusion might have seemed refreshing, for us it sounded childish and not witty at all(no offense intended).
No offense taken.

I still find gay jokes funny. :P Besides, if I thought up newer, funnier jokes on this topic, they'd likely get me banned for not being offensive but still managing to offend someone.
Reply

Paul Williams
06-16-2007, 06:24 PM
though I take Abdul Fattah's point with full seriousness, I still appreciate Panther's sense of humour :giggling:
Reply

جوري
06-16-2007, 06:31 PM
Originally Posted by Panther
Oh man, how did this thread slip by the notice of LI's resident lesbian?

My gaydar should have homed into this topic quicker than a Googlebot, oy. Loosing my touch. :P

Anyway. Telling you how I really feel will just dissolve into a flamewar about me being a dirty sinner, but yeah. Don't get married to a woman, it'll be the worst decision of your life.
We are all sinners, some sins are more cardinal than others...
and before we get into Genes and Psychology, as much biology and medicine as I have done, I can't understand or relate on any level as to what it means to be a homosexual.
I haven't read any scientific articles on the so-called "Gay-Gene" but am familiar with one article that has made an attempt to find commonalities between homosexuals. The numbers weren't convincing... if you are familiar with such things as p value relative risk and odds ratio, which contribute to outcome, You'd have concluded the same ( that is if the observer to begin with had no bias)-- It is nothing more than psychological deviance!.. With that said--
(Pleasure/lust) and love to me are separate entities. Certainly lusting if one of the instincts of the lower self. However love can be expressed through many meaningful ways.. I certainly love my girlfriends but don't see why enjoying a cup of tea or coffee and nice conversation on a lazy afternoon, isn't a sufficient form of expressing my feelings?-- I digress and will say this much with conviction, some claim that there is a Gene that predisposes some to alcoholism, ( can't say the same for homosexuality), but as any former Alcoholic will tell you" just don't touch the bottle" and the cravings are bound to dissolve, they do it by taking it one day at a time, and in time they lead a more fulfilling less destructive life styles--perhaps in time our bros. here will find a woman to fulfil all his needs insha'Allah-- but I don't believe that actively pursuing it, will solve his problems, I don't believe that to be true of even heterosexuals. It will happen when it is meant to be. When Allah wills it!

Good luck to you Panther!

peace!
Reply

Panther
06-17-2007, 08:31 AM
Was waiting for you Purest, lol. Hi agaaaain!

Originally Posted by PurestAmbrosia
We are all sinners, some sins are more cardinal than others...
and before we get into Genes and Psychology, as much biology and medicine as I have done, I can't understand or relate on any level as to what it means to be a homosexual.
I haven't read any scientific articles on the so-called "Gay-Gene" but am familiar with one article that has made an attempt to find commonalities between homosexuals. The numbers weren't convincing... if you are familiar with such things as p value relative risk and odds ratio, which contribute to outcome, You'd have concluded the same ( that is if the observer to begin with had no bias)-- It is nothing more than psychological deviance!.. With that said--
Yeah, neither have I. In all honesty, I'm not entirely sure the theory of the "gay gene" isn't just a load of tosh. From an evolutionary standpoint, being geneticaly predisposed toward homosexuality makes zero sense whatsoever. If this gene existed, it would either have died out aeons ago or would now be extremely rare. So I'll gladly agree with you in that it is psycological, but whether it is "deviance" is a matter of opinion.

(Pleasure/lust) and love to me are separate entities. Certainly lusting if one of the instincts of the lower self. However love can be expressed through many meaningful ways.. I certainly love my girlfriends but don't see why enjoying a cup of tea or coffee and nice conversation on a lazy afternoon, isn't a sufficient form of expressing my feelings?-- I digress and will say this much with conviction, some claim that there is a Gene that predisposes some to alcoholism, ( can't say the same for homosexuality), but as any former Alcoholic will tell you" just don't touch the bottle" and the cravings are bound to dissolve, they do it by taking it one day at a time, and in time they lead a more fulfilling less destructive life styles--perhaps in time our bros. here will find a woman to fulfil all his needs insha'Allah-- but I don't believe that actively pursuing it, will solve his problems, I don't believe that to be true of even heterosexuals. It will happen when it is meant to be. When Allah wills it!

Good luck to you Panther!

peace!
You seem to make a common assumption about Homosexual people, that is that homosexuality is based purely on lust and a homosexual relationship cannot be built on love like a hetero pairing. This simply isn't true, and I'm telling you from first hand experiance.
I understand that it may be difficult for some heterosexuals to understand, but gay people can, and do fall in love.
And the love isn't any differant to the love between a man and a woman(yes, I've experiance that, too. Uh-oh! :X ) except that you have be more aware of your love and the threat it poses to the two of you in a society that doesn't quite understand, much less accept.
Being a homosexual isn't just a "craving". Don't you think that's a dehumanizing claim?
Homosexuals aren't aliens. They're fellow human beingswho are capable of love, lust, hate, happiness, sorrow, and the whole spectrum of human emotion. Just like you and everyone you love and know.

I believe you're right about pursuing a relationship - if a person goes out actively seeking a partner, they'll make themselves unhappy very quickly. Just live your life as normal and if it happens, it happens. :)

Peace~
Reply

glo
06-17-2007, 12:18 PM
Originally Posted by Panther
Homosexuals aren't aliens. They're fellow human beings who are capable of love, lust, hate, happiness, sorrow, and the whole spectrum of human emotion. Just like you and everyone you love and know.
I agree.

I am deeply troubled by the hatred, the condemnation and the ridicule homosexuals experience in our society. Not least of all from religious people. :-[

I have read articles about experiences by homosexuals which broke my heart ...

No doubt the topic of homosexuality - especially in a religious forum - is a bottomless pit! So I will leave my comments and my personal opinions at this.

I wish you peace.
Reply

.:Umniyah:.
06-17-2007, 12:26 PM
And none the less I believe any one of us going into our personal thoughts and feelings would steer this topic...off.

I believe just about all the advice to be given has been gave, and i futher believe that the original poster has mad a deductive conclusion from all the advice/artiles/ and comments made.

So in the good interest of this thread. Can one of you Mods please close it.
Reply

Malaikah
06-17-2007, 12:29 PM
I have to agree with you on this one Glo. The double standards really bother me. Fornicators are practically glorified yet homosexual are like out casts... and yet they are both very serious, major sins!
Reply

Paul Williams
06-17-2007, 01:53 PM
Salam

although I have read much on this thread that is helpful, I for one (for what it is worth!) would be sad to see it close yet...
Reply

sevgi
06-17-2007, 01:55 PM
Originally Posted by Malaikah
I have to agree with you on this one Glo. The double standards really bother me. Fornicators are practically glorified yet homosexual are like out casts... and yet they are both very serious, major sins!
we must adhere to the fact that fornication goes against one religious law..but homosexuality encompaseses a wider range of sins including fornication.

as
Reply

جوري
06-17-2007, 03:42 PM
Originally Posted by Panther
Was waiting for you Purest, lol. Hi agaaaain!



Yeah, neither have I. In all honesty, I'm not entirely sure the theory of the "gay gene" isn't just a load of tosh. From an evolutionary standpoint, being geneticaly predisposed toward homosexuality makes zero sense whatsoever. If this gene existed, it would either have died out aeons ago or would now be extremely rare. So I'll gladly agree with you in that it is psycological, but whether it is "deviance" is a matter of opinion.



You seem to make a common assumption about Homosexual people, that is that homosexuality is based purely on lust and a homosexual relationship cannot be built on love like a hetero pairing. This simply isn't true, and I'm telling you from first hand experiance.
I understand that it may be difficult for some heterosexuals to understand, but gay people can, and do fall in love.
And the love isn't any differant to the love between a man and a woman(yes, I've experiance that, too. Uh-oh! :X ) except that you have be more aware of your love and the threat it poses to the two of you in a society that doesn't quite understand, much less accept.
Being a homosexual isn't just a "craving". Don't you think that's a dehumanizing claim?
Homosexuals aren't aliens. They're fellow human beingswho are capable of love, lust, hate, happiness, sorrow, and the whole spectrum of human emotion. Just like you and everyone you love and know.

I believe you're right about pursuing a relationship - if a person goes out actively seeking a partner, they'll make themselves unhappy very quickly. Just live your life as normal and if it happens, it happens. :)

Peace~
I am pressed for time today so I'll make it brief.
1- so glad you brought out the natural selection thing, because I find it amazing that most people who scream evolution are usually the ones who are so adamant about the "Gay-Genes" which so very true by natural selection would have been wiped out, on a very basic level, a Gay Gene would have dissolved some time ago... further the study I had read about the Gay gene being on the X chromosome is rather funny.. I can go into details of why, but this disorder would mostly affect males, while the females would be carriers, that is assuming it is an X recessive, which it obviously has to be (if it were) otherwise we'd be seeing it much more frequent than we are, but the article certainly didn't go into details on that. Females inactivate one of their X chromosomes by methylation (or other methods), and end up with a barr body something that can be seen in males with Kleinfelter's syndrome, anyhow on the long run it wouldn't explain lesbianism... with that said, I should also clear that I don't believe in a great number of the stories of evolution, unless we are talking about adaptation but not speciation, or natural selection because I got to tell you, there are many many trinucleotide repeats (such as Hunter's and Fragile X etc) that not only continue to survive but in fact get worst with each successive generation. And I am not sure how natural selection addresses that in any scientifically acceptable way?
I have already drawn my own conclusions to a point that is very satisfactory to me and some of my colleagues highly agree, some others are awaiting the gaps to be filled by science.. but where we are in science and where we will be still won't answer some of the most vital questions...
Anyhow-- I never demonized Gays and Lesbians, I have admitted that, I don't understand the psychology behind. I really don't/ can't, I feel on some level perhaps you just didn't meet with the right person? In my own mind I assume perhaps you'd like someone on the cusp not quite masculine, not quite feminine, I don't understand the stereotypical gays, but then again, all I see are stereotypical gays, why not just search for a mate that meets with those standards rather than something that obviously physically, and emotionally deviant. And it is deviant, I promise you, I have read some of the best literature by doctors from John's Hopkins who have dedicated a great deal of their time to this, I am personally just trying to understand this from a humanistic level.. Homosexuality was in the DSM-IV the diagnostic and statistical Manual of mental disorders up to the year 1973, with heavy lobbying it made it out of that book, but at some point it was no different than necrophilia for example...
I don't see why you couldn't love your friends men or women without having a very deviant sexual relationship with them? Sex isn't love, it isn't, Sex can be an act of expressing deep love, but it isn't the only way deep love can be expressed. The only way I can assimilate this to you, is undoubtedly you feel deep love and affection for your family and siblings, but don't fornicate with them, the thought perhaps makes you sick? that is how homosexuality is viewed by many of us.. the thought of two grown middle aged men engaging in a sacred act meant to be for man and woman, is really nothing short of sickening.
It is in no way demonizing you, or saying you are incapable of love or feelings. we are all capable of such emotions, but how we choose to act on them is really what matters.
I am not here by any means to change your mind about anything, Perhaps in a way I am trying to understand you better, and I understand that you are all as varied as can be!
peace!
Reply

Muslim Knight
06-19-2007, 12:51 PM
Found a blog entry pertaining about being a Muslim and gay at the same time (which is a no-no).

HERE
Reply

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