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S_87
06-14-2007, 11:51 AM
While people in Muslim countries have been preoccupied with fatwas (religious rulings) concerning breast-feeding adults, the purity of the Prophet’s urine, and the legality of the recent different types of marriages such as Misyar and Mesfar, perhaps it would be appropriate to take a look at fatwas in Israel. It might give us a chance to compare the two, evaluating the circumstances on both sides.

It is worthy of further consideration to consider the Israeli fatwas that my Palestinian colleague Salih Al-Tuhami observed. Conservative Jewish thought and tradition say that in case the country’s laws contradict the rabbi’s fatwas, the fatwa must be implemented and anything the government says is worthless. That’s the opinion of Rabbi Elie — who is one of Israel’s senior rabbis — who is supported by the majority of his peers.

These Jewish fatwas are responsible for instigating religious Jews against Arabs. Last year, Rabbi Mordechai Eliyahu, former Sephardic chief rabbi and an influential authority among conservative Jews, issued a fatwa asking the Israeli Army not to flinch from killing Palestinian civilians in the context of the ongoing military campaign against armed groups resisting the occupation. He mentioned in his fatwa, which received special attention from religious media outlets and hundreds of pamphlets distributed inside synagogues in Israel. that all Palestinians must be murdered, even the ones who are not participating in the war against terrorism. This wasn’t enough for the revered rabbi, who said that this was not only a fatwa, but a religious duty from God that Jews must follow.

After that, one of the most important Jewish rabbis issued a fatwa that allowed his students in one of the Jewish settlements in the northern West Bank to steal the agricultural produce grown by Palestinians. It said that everything in the West Bank belongs to the Jews, giving them the right to confiscate such properties. This fatwa was implemented and his students confiscated the agricultural yield of the Palestinians.

Rabbi Dov Lior, chief rabbi of Hebron and Kiryat-Arba, did the same when he issued a fatwa that allowed Jewish settlers to poison the livestock and water wells owned by Palestinians in neighboring cities and villages. The settlers didn’t hesitate in implementing the fatwa. Not a single day passed without Palestinians finding dead sheep and poisoned water.

On the other hand, a group of prominent Jewish rabbis addressed the Israeli defense minister, Shaul Mofaz, saying that killing enemy civilians was “normal” during wartime and that the Israeli Army should never hesitate to kill non-Jewish civilians in order to save Jewish lives. “There is no war in the world in which it is possible to delineate neatly between the population and the enemy’s army, neither in the US war in Iraq, the Russian war in Chechnya, nor in Israel’s war with its enemies,” the rabbis said.

The rabbis quoted a Talmudic ruling, which states “Our lives come first.” In their famous letter, the rabbis warned against what they called Christian preaching in dealing with conflict. “The Christian preaching of ‘turning the other cheek’ doesn’t concern us, and we will not be impressed by those who prefer the lives of our enemies to our lives,” they said.

These tense times have influenced a number of other fatwas from rabbis about underestimating the lives of Arabs and humiliating them. Yediot Ahronot newspaper reported on July 25, 2002 that Rabbi Ovadia Yosef, the current spiritual leader of the Shas political party in the Knesset (Israel’s Parliament), said that until Christ the Savior arrives, he will send all Arabs to hellfire. “Why doesn’t Ariel Sharon do what needs to be done? He’s scared of the people of the world. But when the Savior Christ comes, he won’t fear anyone. He will send all the Arabs to hell.” Yosef described Arabs as snakes and said Jews should not trust them.

It’s no wonder that one of the rabbis — Isaac Ginzburg — published a book entitled “Baruch the Hero” to immortalize the name of Dr. Baruch Goldstein who perpetrated the 1994 Cave of the Patriarchs massacre in the city of Hebron, killing 29 Arab attendants of the Ibrahimi Mosque (within the Cave of the Patriarchs) and wounding another 150 in a shooting attack.

As for Rabbi Eli Albaz, who is one of the distinctive Eastern rabbis, he never misses an opportunity to attack Islam and condemn the Prophet (pbuh). He insists on complaining in front of his audience by telling jokes that address Muslims and Palestinians and using filthy language to attack Muslims. And Rabbi Eliyahu Reskin continuously ridicules the reconciliation attempts to create dialogue between Jewish rabbis and Arab officials. He believes that the only language of dialogue between Muslims and Jews should be bullets. He feels that without convincing the Arabs in general, and the Palestinians specifically, settlement can’t be forced upon Israel so the efforts of peace are worthless.

It’s true that from a legal perspective, the rabbis’ fatwas concerning political issues don’t exert much influence. But their words, that come from their religious backgrounds, have a huge impact especially with the increasing dominance of religious parties that have developed tremendous political power that cannot be underestimated. Therefore, their fatwas influence more than religious people and are used to pressure political decisions. It’s true that conservatives, whether the followers of Zionism or from the ultra-Orthodox movement, make up 28 percent of the Israeli population, yet more than 50 percent of the inhabitants of the country introduce themselves as conservatives. These people empathize greatly with Jewish religious authorities and pay attention to what they say.

What’s interesting is that all the laws and systems in Israel have never tried, not even once, to address those rabbis or question them about their racial discrimination. Not only that, but these rabbis, who are involved in this discrimination, are given great prominence in Israeli politics. Decision makers in Israel compete with each other to earn the endorsement of rabbis, and to be close to them.

When one examines these fatwas and their influence in instigating and serving the Zionist schemes and its evil goals, one can’t help but feel sad and bitter when compared with the fatwas that are preoccupying Muslim scholars. The latter provoke gossip among people and divert their attention from what’s vital and fateful, making them regress instead of moving forward.

I pray to God to enlighten our scholars and guide them.

http://www.arabnews.com/?page=7&sect...=14&m=6&y=2007
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dilkadr
06-25-2007, 11:08 AM
It just unviel the drak face of the non-Mulims
:raging:
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MuhammadRizan
06-25-2007, 11:35 AM
:sl:

i think this report is very biased, the Jews not only hate or superior to Arab..

someone told them Gentiles are Jew's dogs..

someone told them they can enslaved all the nations around them..
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InToTheRain
06-25-2007, 02:00 PM
This doesn't surprise me, they have burried children alive and left it for the whole world to witness before...


"...vehement hatred has already come into the open out of their mouths, but what their hearts conceal is yet worse..." 3:118
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MTAFFI
06-25-2007, 02:38 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by dilkadr
It just unviel the drak face of the non-Mulims
:raging:
I dont think it is far to say this unveils the "dark face" of non muslims, rather it unveils the dark face of the particular people who are saying and doing these things.

This article represents a disgusting display of hatred and intolerance, and the Rabbis issuing these fatwas will answer to Allah for their demented words. However it is unfair to simply say it is non muslims showing their dark face, what if I said this is Muslims showing their dark faces

"O Mujahedeen ... uproot the Zionist presence in the land of Egypt, stand up and set fire everywhere and don't differentiate between a civilian and a military personnel, as they have raided our children and women, we will also kill their children and women," said the online statement.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070625/...nians_al_qaida

I dont think it would be a fair assessment, since the words are coming from a complete idiot.
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dilkadr
06-25-2007, 06:20 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by MTAFFI
I dont think it is far to say this unveils the "dark face" of non muslims, rather it unveils the dark face of the particular people who are saying and doing these things.

This article represents a disgusting display of hatred and intolerance, and the Rabbis issuing these fatwas will answer to Allah for their demented words. However it is unfair to simply say it is non muslims showing their dark face, what if I said this is Muslims showing their dark faces

"O Mujahedeen ... uproot the Zionist presence in the land of Egypt, stand up and set fire everywhere and don't differentiate between a civilian and a military personnel, as they have raided our children and women, we will also kill their children and women," said the online statement.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070625/...nians_al_qaida

I dont think it would be a fair assessment, since the words are coming from a complete idiot.
Surely, Muslims are not involve in such activities.
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dilkadr
06-25-2007, 06:22 PM
Furthermore, we must recognize people by their actions not by their labels
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wilberhum
06-25-2007, 06:59 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by dilkadr
Surely, Muslims are not involve in such activities.
Because all Muslims are good. Right? :skeleton:
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islamirama
06-25-2007, 07:04 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by wilberhum
Because all Muslims are good. Right? :skeleton:
nothing to say against the zionist fatwas? or are you saving your NRG for muslims?
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wilberhum
06-25-2007, 07:16 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by islamirama
nothing to say against the zionist fatwas? or are you saving your NRG for muslims?
The enormity of the evil committed by both sides is beyond understanding.
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Bittersteel
06-25-2007, 07:24 PM
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070625/...nians_al_qaida
I dont think it would be a fair assessment, since the words are coming from a complete idiot.
Amani's article just proves(assuming its authentic as it is from arab news) there are both radical and barking religious leaders of every religion.we hear similar statements from Muslims who say such things(albeit due to ignorance),talking how Jews are evil,and Hindu BJP leaders saying how all Muslim males are sexists, and these rabbis seem not that much different.
It no longer matters what religious leaders say or do.its all upto the politicians now in these times. though if they are increasingly influenced by religious figures in sensitive issues like the Israel-Arab conflict,it could mean trouble.
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dilkadr
06-25-2007, 08:28 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by wilberhum
Because all Muslims are good. Right? :skeleton:

All Muslims by their action are always good, Others those label themselves as Muslim or those we label as Muslim could be anything.

Deeds are what on which people will be judged on the judgment day not their labels of any kind
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islamirama
06-25-2007, 08:29 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by wilberhum
The enormity of the evil committed by both sides is beyond understanding.
with the difference of one side trying to annhilate the other (with US support & protection) and otherside trying to survive (with US condemnation for self-defense)...
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wilberhum
06-25-2007, 08:34 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by islamirama
with the difference of one side trying to annhilate the other (with US support & protection) and otherside trying to survive (with US condemnation for self-defense)...
Who fired first? Israel was attacked day one. But you know that. :thumbs_up
Missiles into civilian areas is trying to survive? :skeleton:
Too bad no one wants peace. :raging:
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islamirama
06-25-2007, 08:46 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by wilberhum
Who fired first? Israel was attacked day one. But you know that. :thumbs_up
the world by creating illegal state by occupying another's land

Missiles into civilian areas is trying to survive? :skeleton:
Does retaliation mean anything?


0 Israeli homes have been demolished by Palestinians and 4,170 Palestinian homes have been demolished by Israel since September 29, 2000. (View Source)

1 Israeli is being held prisoner by Palestinians, while 10,756 Palestinians are currently imprisoned by Israel. (View Source)

Too bad no one wants peace. :raging:
How can you have peace with occupation?

and these zionist fatwas with license to kill?
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MTAFFI
06-25-2007, 08:52 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by islamirama
the world by creating illegal state by occupying another's land



Does retaliation mean anything?


0 Israeli homes have been demolished by Palestinians and 4,170 Palestinian homes have been demolished by Israel since September 29, 2000. (View Source)

1 Israeli is being held prisoner by Palestinians, while 10,756 Palestinians are currently imprisoned by Israel. (View Source)



How can you have peace with occupation?

and these zionist fatwas with license to kill?
I see you are still quoting your same biased sites

How many Israeli homes have been destroyed by mortar rounds?
How many Israelis have been executed when caught by Palestinians?

How can you have peace when someone is firing rockets at you daily?
and Hamas saying it will accept nothing short than the destruction of Israel?
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wilberhum
06-25-2007, 08:53 PM
the world by creating illegal state by occupying another's land
Just like Pakistan.
Does retaliation mean anything?
Yes, we have seen an endless cycle of it for 60 years.
That's the major problem. Retaliation means more than peace.
How can you have peace with occupation?
How can you have peace with Suicide bombers?

There are two sides to every problem. The biggest problem is that most people only choose to recognize one of them.
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islamirama
06-26-2007, 12:49 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by wilberhum
Just like Pakistan.
Pakistan/india/bengladesh = one people, one race.

palestine/israel = two ppl (locals and outsiders), 2 races (occupier and occupied)

Duh!


Yes, we have seen an endless cycle of it for 60 years.
That's the major problem. Retaliation means more than peace.
So you expect them to roll over and die? remember the intifada? it was a result of TOO much oppression that the non-retaliating population stood up to say enough is enough, something the western powers lack the backbone to do.

How can you have peace with Suicide bombers?
suicide bombers are more popular in iraq and was unheard of in palestine for last 60yrs.

How can you have peace under occupation?

There are two sides to every problem. The biggest problem is that most people only choose to recognize one of them.
There's two sides to every problem. The abuser and the abused, clearly we know who is who.
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MuhammadRizan
06-26-2007, 03:42 AM
Salam.

don't u guys think we're arguing about something stupid here?

are we dare to say that we understand what are israeli or palestinian had been going through all this 50 years. at the same time we're bz worrying our favorite soccer team lose again, is that make us have a right talking about them?

about this fatwa thing, well, what do you expect when people in War situation?
i dont know, i've never even see people shot to death in front of me.
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guyabano
06-26-2007, 07:53 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by MuhammadRizan
Salam.

don't u guys think we're arguing about something stupid here?

are we dare to say that we understand what are israeli or palestinian had been going through all this 50 years. at the same time we're bz worrying our favorite soccer team lose again, is that make us have a right talking about them?

about this fatwa thing, well, what do you expect when people in War situation?
i dont know, i've never even see people shot to death in front of me.
The first good post in this thread. :thumbs_up
It just always puzzle me, how the mods can always accept these threads which have just one purpose: Display the hatred and expose the kuffars as evil.
To make a war, you always need 2, so finally, none benefit out of this.
Israel will never move, that is a fact. Too much jews are now born there and consider this place as their homeland. You cannot simple tell to them to free the 'occupied land'.
So stop whining !
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glo
06-26-2007, 08:08 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by dilkadr
All Muslims by their action are always good, Others those label themselves as Muslim or those we label as Muslim could be anything.

Deeds are what on which people will be judged on the judgment day not their labels of any kind
I think that view is somewhat simplistic.
I can see that you may think that if a Muslim followed Islam perfectly and 100%, then they would be 'good'. I would say the same of those who follow Christ's teachings to perfection.

But, realistically speaking, do you know anybody who is perfect and follows their faith perfectly??

According to Christian teaching nobody is so perfect!
We may desire and strive to be perfect ... but we will not reach true perfection on our earthly journey. Not even those considered saints in Christian terms would call themselves perfect. Not even the prophets of the Old Testament were perfect.

So, if none of us can be perfect, and none of us can follow God's laws and teachings 100%, then none of us can be truly good and call ourselves so ...
Your statement is thereby false.

We may all possess varying degrees of 'goodness' ... but none of us can ever reach God's standards ... not in this earthly life, anyway.

(But your views as a Muslim may differ, of course!) :)

peace
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north_malaysian
06-26-2007, 08:25 AM
Only Muftis can issue fatawa (fatwas)...

For Rabbi maybe we should call it "Rabbinical Precedents" or "Rabbinical Decrees" etc. Not zionist fatwas, jewish fatwas etc.... it'll confused people.

The rabbi doesnt deserve to issue a "fatwa" as he is not a Mufti.

When I saw the title... I thought that it was about Mufti of Israel (if they have one) issued "Brutal Fatwas".
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S_87
06-26-2007, 02:16 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by MuhammadRizan
Salam.

don't u guys think we're arguing about something stupid here?

.
:sl:

not really because in that case all the debates in this section would be something stupid
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Muezzin
06-26-2007, 04:56 PM
The most stupid thing in this section is when threads get derailed. See, I thought this thread was about some extremist rabbis giving 'brutal fatwas', rather than debating the legality of Israel and/or Pakistan's existence.

Thanks to the folks who have stayed on-topic though.
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MuhammadRizan
06-26-2007, 05:37 PM
salam,

It just always puzzle me, how the mods can always accept these threads which have just one purpose: Display the hatred and expose the kuffars as evil.
and you forget(i supposed+o( ) to mention someone will be ignorant enough to say palestinian are complete evil that deserved to die and that other typical blah blah blah blah blah blah thing!+o(

not really because in that case all the debates in this section would be something stupid
Just look in the other thread in this section, u will see some people that never involve in War(like me) pretending to be cute and knowing everything, then talking complete rubbish.

i called it stupid because we will achieve completely nothing.

:enough!: :enough!: :enough!:
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guyabano
06-27-2007, 06:56 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by MuhammadRizan
salam,



and you forget(i supposed+o( ) to mention someone will be ignorant enough to say palestinian are complete evil that deserved to die and that other typical blah blah blah blah blah blah thing!+o(



Just look in the other thread in this section, u will see some people that never involve in War(like me) pretending to be cute and knowing everything, then talking complete rubbish.

i called it stupid because we will achieve completely nothing.

:enough!: :enough!: :enough!:
Good, my message reached (one of) the right persons ! :D
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