~ Vietcong Were Executed, Too ~

[Zman]

:sl:/Peace To All

Vietcong Were Executed, Too

By The Associated Press
Fri Jun 15, 2007 4:29 PM ET
News.Yahoo

Four decades ago in Vietnam, anti-U.S. fighters were also put on trial and put to death, as in Iraq today. But U.S. forces didn't help for long.

In the mid-1960s — the early days of the U.S. involvement in Vietnam's civil war — the U.S.-allied South Vietnamese government prosecuted and executed Viet Cong guerrillas, including some captured and handed over by U.S. troops.

In 1965, however, Radio Hanoi announced that a captured U.S. Army sergeant had been executed in reprisal for the Viet Cong deaths.

The U.S. command soon stopped handing over Viet Cong prisoners to the South Vietnamese government.

"The Viet Cong informed us that they would begin executing U.S. prisoners if we continued to facilitate the South Vietnamese executions, and we had reason to believe them," said Gary D. Solis, a Georgetown University law professor who served as a U.S. Marine lawyer in Vietnam.

In Iraq, too, insurgents have captured and killed U.S. soldiers, but thus far have not linked their fate to that of captured Iraqi insurgents facing a possible death penalty.

Source:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070615/...anging_vietnam

[Trumble]

I guess from the lack of response to your post nobody else can quite figure out what point you are trying to make? Sure, the South Vietnamese authorities executed a lot of (actual and suspected) Vietcong. The Vietcong and North Vietnamese authorities executed a large number of South Vietnamese, and Americans. The Americans, illegally, executed a lot of Vietcong. The Vietnam war was a particularly unpleasant one.

What does all that have to do with Iraq? You seem to be suggesting that if the 'insurgents' start executing a few American prisoners the Americans will stop handing any captured 'insurgents' over to the Iraqi authorities for trial. Maybe they could all go to Gitmo instead? Where the parallel seems to fall down, though, is that as the quote pretty much says the only thing the 'insurgents' do with captured prisoners is execute them in particularly unpleasant fashion, anyway - so I'm not quite sure what the Americans are supposed to stand to gain? I'm all in favour of neither side executing anybody, but somehow I can't see either side rushing to agree.

[Zman]

What does all that have to do with Iraq?

People were horrified at the capture and execution of the 3 American soldiers in Iraq, and claimed that it was a barbaric act.

Several months back, Insurgents captured American soldiers, executed them, then boobytrapped their bodies.

The point I'm making is that both sides play dirty. Unfortunately, many people tend to make it look like we're civilized in our treatment of prisoners. But, the truth is that we're exactly like the enemy, and many instances, far worse.

I also posted this figuring that someone can make the connection between our actions in Vietnam and what is going on in Gaza.

Someone had said on another thread that "atrocities occur in warfare," when they attempt to make excuses for our atrocities, yet they are uncompromising in their condemnation of some Muslims, when they perpetrate similar acts.

It's not Just Vietnam, we've executed Iraqi prisoners (army personnel), we've executed Iraqi civilians, we've executed Korean civilians, German POW's, etc.

It's all about our hypocrisy and double standards.

BTW, the "lack of response," can also be attributed to the fact that people can't respond to the truth, when our dirty laundry is aired (since we fancy that we're the knights in shining armor and the good guys who constantly wear the white hat. We are never the villains)...

[Cognescenti]

.......It's all about our hypocrisy and double standards.

BTW, the "lack of response," can also be attributed to the fact that people can't respond to the truth, when our dirty laundry is aired (since we fancy that we're the knights in shining armor and the good guys who constantly wear the white hat. We are never the villains)...

No it isn't. Have you considered that the readers might consider your post strained or irrelevant?

BTW...are we back to using "we" again when describing American actions? Weren't you the expat living in the US..or am I confusing you with someone else?

BTW (II)...public executions of Fatah prisoners in Gaza? Eh...who cares? Hamas purporting to be a responsible political party..now we have a problem.

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[wilberhum]

I think

the "lack of response,"

is more due to you constant copy/paste hate messages. :?

[Zman]

I think is more due to you constant copy/paste hate messages. :?

So, you're into that 5 second soundbyte ?

There's nothing wrong with "copy/paste."

That's Just a lame excuses for not having a rebuttal and an inability to challenge the truth.

If I post a brief passage or Just a link, members will have to go to the source and read the complete article. So, posting the complete article here makes it at least more convenient.

If you don't like long articles why don't you complain to the author or the paper that published it?

Anyway, what you say about "copy/paste" is irrelevant. There's only a handful who have mentioned it. It would seem that the majority of the members and the mods have no problem with this.

So, as long as the majority approve, you're out of luck...

[wilberhum]

So, you're into that 5 second soundbyte ?

There's nothing wrong with "copy/paste."

That's Just a lame excuses for not having a rebuttal and an inability to challenge the truth.

If I post a brief passage or Just a link, members will have to go to the source and read the complete article. So, posting the complete article here makes it at least more convenient.

If you don't like long articles why don't you complain to the author or the paper that published it?

Anyway, what you say about "copy/paste" is irrelevant. There's only a handful who have mentioned it. It would seem that the majority of the members and the mods have no problem with this.

So, as long as the majority approve, you're out of luck...

Wow, an independent thought. Who would have guessed? :skeleton:

[Trumble]

There's nothing wrong with "copy/paste."

I don't have a problem with it as long as its short. What does annoy me is when a lengthy piece (this is a 'comparative religion' speciality, not a 'world affairs' one) is grabbed parrot fashion and the poster then expects others to spend considerable amounts of time researching that 'rebuttal' and 'challenge' and then replying at length, when the original post took all of thirty seconds to compile and the author only understood half the content anyway.

[Woodrow]

Nam was a long jumbled up affair. It was actually a long series of seperate conflicts. It did not come to be seen as a "War" by most people until it became a conflict between North and South.

The early days in the late 1940s it was more all of vietnam trying to oust the French land owners. Later it was internal tribal conflicts and mass extermination of the more undeveloped tribes such as the such as the Tay, Tai, Muong and Nung. At about that time a fledgling Vietnamese Army was forming. Much of it was trained in the US.

In the 50's the Khymer Rouge became a threat coming out of Laos and Cambodia. US forces were asked to come in as non-Combatants and to function as advisors and trainers for the now growing Vietnamese Army, Navy and Air Force.

Communism from the North moved into Vietnam and divided the country. Civil war broke out between the North and South. The US advisors became prime targets for the North. At first there was a plan of non-escalation and the US would not furnish any weapons or troops that had a superiority over the weapons used by the North. By the late 1950s North Vietnam was using Russian Mig 18s and Mig 21. the mig 18 was essential the same aircraft as the F-86 so we provided the south with F-86s. however they had few pilots to fly them so a number of us where deployed as flight instructors and aerial combat trainers. things escalated.

then came the infamous 30 days of October in 1963 and the Russian missle build up in Cuba. The US and Russia where within 15 minutes of mutual destruction and an agreement was made. The US would agree to not bomb Hanoi and Russia would remove the missles from Cuba.
North Vietnam immediatly turned Hanoi into a missle base and we were open targets for sam Missles.

the rest of vietnam History is what most people read about and know about.

attempts to keep it a Vietnamese civil war failed and all hades broke loose.

It was a slow drawn out process that it became a US military operation and came about so slowly that nobody realised it had turned into a US-N. Vietnam war.

Many errors were made one was the turning of alleged viet-cong over to the south Vietnamese as that was certain execution. We are now aware that some of the south factors did use allegations of Viet-cong supporter as a means to remove political rivals. And that is how the Topic story came to be.

[north_malaysian]

Do u know that hundreds of thousands of Vietnamese refugees (boatpeoples) were rescued by poor Muslim fishermen living on the coastal areas of Malaysia?

[Woodrow]

Do u know that hundreds of thousands of Vietnamese refugees (boatpeoples) were rescued by poor Muslim fishermen living on the coastal areas of Malaysia?

Quite true, the story of the "boat people" can be a very lengthy book and history on it's own.

Also a large number ended up in Indonesia. I would suspect there are now quite a few Vietnamese throughout the Pacific regions that are now Muslim.

Odd turn of events a nasty war in a country that was mixed between Christian, atheism and pagan beliefs served to bring many to Islam.

Most Vietnamese I met in the 1960s were Roman Catholic, tribal religions or atheist. I have met very few that were Buddhist. Then again most of the Vietnamese I met where being evacuated by the Catholic Church and were being relocated under Church sponsorship.

[Zman]

Do u know that hundreds of thousands of Vietnamese refugees (boatpeoples) were rescued by poor Muslim fishermen living on the coastal areas of Malaysia?

:sl:

I didn't know that. God bless them...

[north_malaysian]

I would suspect there are now quite a few Vietnamese throughout the Pacific regions that are now Muslim.

You dont have to suspect, it really happened....

Before, the Vietnamese War none of the ethnic Vietnamese are muslims. The Muslims in Vietnam were made out of Chams and immigrants from Malaysia, Indonesia, Cambodia, India and Yemen... almost all of them live in the South Vietnam.

After the war broke out the immigrants left Vietnam... and hundreds of thousands ethnic Vietnamese left their homeland by boats. and the safest place to go is southward... and the nearest land southward is the coastal areas and islands of Malaysia, Indonesia and the Philippines.

Malaysia has a very strict immigration laws... thus more than 90% of the refugees were sent to the 3rd countries like USA, Australia and Canada.

But for those who are left behind... they're approached by Muslim missionaries from ABIM (Malaysian Islamic Youth Movement) Outreach. Hundreds converted to Islam here.

Then, the situation in Vietnam was peaceful... almost all Vietnamese living in Malaysia left for Vietnam including the Vietnamese Muslims.

I've read a report long ago from RISEAP (Regional Islamic Da'wah Council of the Southeast Asia and Pacific) annual report, of which the HQ is in Malaysia. Many of those new reverts established new Muslim villages in Southern Vietnam and manage to convert more to Islam.

Imagine, from 0 Vietnamese Muslims in the 70s.... and even Christian webpages ( http://www.worldchristiandatabase.org )mentioned that some ethnic Vietnamese (Kinh) had became Muslims (estimates for year 2005):

* Vietnam - 510,667 Vietnamese Muslims (0.73% of ethnic Vietnamese)
* Cambodia - 4,221 Vietnamese Muslims (1.00% of ethnic Vietnamese)
* Laos - 1,007 Vietnamese Muslims (1.00% of ethnic Vietnamese)

p/s: I hope Muslims would have something like worldchristiandatabase.org or joshuaproject.net

[Woodrow]

That is quite amazing. What I see so fantastic it is the Vietnamese that reverted to Islam are the ones who are returning to their homeland. I know quite a few Vietnamese here in the USA. All that I know from the original refugee groups had dreams of one day returning to Viet-Nam. Yet, they have not been able to and now many are already deceased from age and never realized their dream.

But, now I here from you that the Muslims reverts and their families are returning home and are the nucleus of Islam in the Vietnam, Cambodia, Laos region. Mashallah

[north_malaysian]

Malaysians managed to Islamise some Khmer people too who migrated to Malaysia during Khmer Rouge era.

I think, Malaysia produced lots of Muslim missionaries... with missions to interior jungles of Borneo, Cambodia and Vietnam.

Lots of money were given by both Malaysian government and Malaysians for da'wah works in Asia Pacific region. From what I've remembered by reading the RISEAP Annual Report.... we have Islamic missions in countries like Cook Islands, American Samoa, Western Samoa, Tonga, Vanuatu, Papua New Guinea, New Caledonia, China, Japan and Korea.

[Keltoi]

Just to bring in a personal experience with this issue, I had a long-term relationship with a Vietnamese woman and got to know her family fairly well. She and her parents were Buddhists, but they had an aunt and uncle who escaped Vietnam and lived in Malaysia..pretty sure it was Malaysia, and who had converted to Islam. Made family gatherings interesting. Lot of unspoken tension there.

[Cognescenti]

Malaysians managed to Islamise some Khmer people too who migrated to Malaysia during Khmer Rouge era.

I think, Malaysia produced lots of Muslim missionaries... with missions to interior jungles of Borneo, Cambodia and Vietnam.

Lots of money were given by both Malaysian government and Malaysians for da'wah works in Asia Pacific region. From what I've remembered by reading the RISEAP Annual Report.... we have Islamic missions in countries like Cook Islands, American Samoa, Western Samoa, Tonga, Vanuatu, Papua New Guinea, New Caledonia, China, Japan and Korea.

I wonder how the numerous critics of Christian missionaries on this forum feel about that. :)

Let's hope they are getting a message of tolerance. The thought of a bunch of angry Samoans with American passports and a score to settle over "Islamic" grievance X or Y is a bit unsettling.

[north_malaysian]

I wonder how the numerous critics of Christian missionaries on this forum feel about that. :)

Because the Christian missionaries are active among Muslim communities, some Muslims organisation feel the urge of doing the same..

AFRICAN MUSLIM AGENCY (FROM KUWAIT)
Da'wah missions in Angola, Sierra Leone, Mali, Malawi, Mozambique, Madagascar, Zimbabwe, Gambia and South Africa.

ISLAMIC DA'WAH MOVEMENT OF SOUTH AFRICA
Da'wah missions for Blacks in South Africa.

KOREA MUSLIM FEDERATION
Da'wah missions for South Koreans.

ISLAMIC DA'WAH FOUNDATION MALAYSIA (YADIM)
Da'wah missions in Malaysia.

MUSLIM WELFARE ORGANIZATION OF MALAYSIA (PERKIM)
Da'wah missions for Chinese, Indian, Aborigines, Natives of Borneo and immigrants in Malaysia.

ISLAMIC OUTREACH - ABIM (Muslim Youth Movement of Malaysia)
Da'wah missions for Chinese, Indians and Aborigines in Malaysia.

REGIONAL ISLAMIC DA'WAH COUNCIL IN SOUTHEAST ASIA AND THE PACIFIC (RISEAP - HQ MALAYSIA)
Da'wah missions in Asia-Pacific region.

Members of RISEAP:

* National Union of Malaysian Muslim Students (Malaysia)
* Muslim Youth Movement of Malaysia (Malaysia)
* Muslim Welfare Organization of Malaysia (Malaysia)
* Malaysian Chinese Muslim Association (Malaysia)
* HIKMAH (Malaysia)
* Pan-Sabah Islamic Organization (Malaysia)
* The Muslim Converts' Association of Singapore (Singapore)
* Muhammadiyah Association (Singapore)
* Islamic Religious Council of Singapore (Singapore)
* Islamic Theological Association of Singapore - PERTAPIS (Singapore)
* Young Women Muslim Association - YWMA (Singapore)
* Muslim Missionary Society of Singapore - JAMIYAH (Singapore)
* Singapore Islamic Scholars & Religious Teachers Assoc. - PERGAS (S'pore)
* Muslim Women Association - WI (Indonesia)
* Muhammadiyah (Indonesia)
* Indonesian Islamic Da'wah Assembly - DDII (Indonesia)
* Indonesia Muslim Students' Association - PII (Indonesia)
* Islamic Association of University Student - HMI (Indonesia)
* Indonesia Chinese Muslim Association (Indonesia)
* Young Muslim Association of Thailand (Thailand)
* Islamic Association (Thailand)
* Thai Muslim Student Association (Thailand)
* Islamic Da'wah Council of Philippines (Philippines)
* Muslim Youth Movement Philippines (Philippines)
* Muslim Alliance in the Philippines (Philippines)
* Ansar Al Islam (Philippines)
* The Islamic Centre of Myanmar (Myanmar)
* Islamic Religious Affairs Council (Myanmar)
* Muslim Central Fund Trust (Myanmar)
* Jamiatul Ulama Al Islam (Myanmar)
* Federation of Brunei Islamic Organisation - PERKASA (Brunei)
* Australian Federation of Islamic Council Inc (Australia)
* Australia Islamic Cultural Centre (Australia)
* Centre of Islamic Studies (Sri Lanka)
* Federation of Islamic Association of New Zealand Inc. (New Zealand)
* Islamic Society of Papua New Guinea Inc. (Papua New Guinea)
* Islamic Society of Vanuatu (Vanuatu)
* Tonga Muslim Society (Tonga)
* Western Samoa Muslim League (Western Samoa)
* Association des Musulmans de Nouvelle-Caledonie (New Caledonia)
* Islamic Association of Macau (Macau)
* Korea Muslim Federation (South Korea)
* Cambodia Islamic Association (Cambodia)
* Islamic Charity Association (Maldives)
* Islamic Centre - Japan (Japan)
* Japan Muslim Association (Japan)
* Council of Islamic Organization Japan (Japan)
* Islamic Union of Hong Kong (Hong Kong)
* Hong Kong Islamic Youth Association (Hong Kong)
* The Chinese Muslim Association (Taiwan)
* Chinese Islamic Cultural & Educational Foundation (Taiwan)
* Fiji Muslim League (Fiji)
* Fiji Muslim Youth Movement (Fiji)