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AFDAL
06-16-2007, 09:39 PM
Please visit the following and watch

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WBxy1R0jitM&NR=1
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Philosopher
06-16-2007, 09:45 PM
One word: Hinduism.
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Star
06-16-2007, 09:55 PM
omg! it's horrific, i didnt know people were forced to live like that, the little girls story at the end made me cry :cry:
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Sinbad
06-16-2007, 10:23 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Philosopher
One word: Hinduism.
Its not hinduism, it is my people. around 4000 years ago, some migrated from central asia to the south. Some moved to the Iranian plateu, others to India.

The ones coming to Iran where called "aryans", or noble, cause they where peacefull. The ones coming to India had more violent leaders. So they invaded the indians nations and gave them diffrent casts. They introduced the cast system to keep the people in their places.

Still even today the invadors rule, look at all the bollywood stars, none of them are real hindis, they are all aryan. It never changed, its still the same cruel system.
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AFDAL
06-16-2007, 10:24 PM
Sallamualaikum

Iam from a Muslim from India, since long I have being looking these types of stuff in reality. Thought many of these people's have come to Islam but still the problem is their - please note it that it is india and am not talking about pakistan or bangladesh. Many of the so called Muslim leaders from India - also do think the hindu way - reason( my thinking ) is the Muslim Leaders are educated in christian missionary school have their advocate, their friends all social gathering in/as hindus for which they are Muslim by name or the Eid Muslim.

My question is What Islam say about these?

Though I have being living in eastern europe for the last 15 years, but every year I travel to India more than 3 times and again see the same situation - I always think why the Muslim leardership donot think about it.
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Philosopher
06-16-2007, 11:47 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Sinbad
Its not hinduism, it is my people. around 4000 years ago, some migrated from central asia to the south. Some moved to the Iranian plateu, others to India.

The ones coming to Iran where called "aryans", or noble, cause they where peacefull. The ones coming to India had more violent leaders. So they invaded the indians nations and gave them diffrent casts. They introduced the cast system to keep the people in their places.

Still even today the invadors rule, look at all the bollywood stars, none of them are real hindis, they are all aryan. It never changed, its still the same cruel system.
Ever heard of the caste system?? Hinduism introduced it.
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Sinbad
06-16-2007, 11:57 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Philosopher
Ever heard of the caste system?? Hinduism introduced it.
No that came later on by the aryan invasion. Ask a hindu and you will see.
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beespreeteam
06-17-2007, 09:57 AM
When I visited India it was horrific, the amount of shirk...
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AvarAllahNoor
06-17-2007, 11:17 AM
No freedom or democracy in the above mentioned country!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - It shall perish!
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Philosopher
06-17-2007, 01:06 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by AvarAllahNoor
No freedom or democracy in the above mentioned country!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - It shall perish!
Isnt India your home country?? Why are you so upset. The prime minister is a Sikh, with a Muslim president. India is a lovely country.
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NoName55
06-17-2007, 02:23 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Philosopher
Isnt India your home country?? Why are you so upset. The prime minister is a Sikh, with a Muslim president. India is a lovely country.
Since when having a Muslim or Sikh name make a Muslim or Sikh?
Just look at yourself and see, also look how many manifestation you went thru on this forum alone
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S_87
06-17-2007, 02:33 PM
:sl:

ignorance. not just hindus caste system is alive amongst many muslim indians today too <_<
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AvarAllahNoor
06-17-2007, 03:45 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by NoName55
Since when having a Muslim or Sikh name make a Muslim or Sikh?
Just look at yourself and see, also look how many manifestation you went thru on this forum alone
lol a point well made mate. :D

india is not my country PANJAB is. But as i reside here I regard England as my home.

A turban wearing man does not represent a Sikh!
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Sinbad
06-17-2007, 03:52 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by AvarAllahNoor
lol a point well made mate. :D

india is not my country PANJAB is. But as i reside here I regard England as my home.

A turban wearing man does not represent a Sikh!
Wow I must say Im pretty fascinated by the whole Khalistan thing, Iv read it on wikipedia, armed milisia et c.

How come that muslims have 2 nations from India, but sikhs have none, its strange. I dont know anything but I support you, where can you donate:D
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AvarAllahNoor
06-17-2007, 03:58 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Sinbad
Wow I must say Im pretty fascinated by the whole Khalistan thing, Iv read it on wikipedia, armed milisia et c.

How come that muslims have 2 nations from India, but sikhs have none, its strange. I dont know anything but I support you, where can you donate:D
All in good time dude. You should read up on the Sikh Empire, we shall re-establish it again, God willing.

Sikh Shrines are treated better by the muslims in pakistan, than those treated in indai by hindus. i respect pakistanis in pakistan
:statisfie
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Sinbad
06-17-2007, 04:01 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by AvarAllahNoor
All in good time dude. You should read up on the Sikh Empire, we shall re-establish it again, God willing.

Sikh Shrines are treated better by the muslims in pakistan, than those treated in indai by hindus. i respect pakistanis in pakistan
:statisfie
I will! I love sikhs, is it thrue you have swords all the time? And I love that filosofy, why should men shave their beard, when men are supposed to have them.

Your shrines seem cool, a lot of water and stuff, is "the golden temple" solid gold??
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AvarAllahNoor
06-17-2007, 04:07 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Sinbad
I will! I love sikhs, is it thrue you have swords all the time? And I love that filosofy, why should men shave their beard, when men are supposed to have them.

Your shrines seem cool, a lot of water and stuff, is "The Golden Temple" solid gold??
Thankyou. They do carry swords, but they are not to be sued in a malicious way, only defence.

The domes are indeed solid gold.

btw - You being Sinbad, I'm surprised you've not sailed past The Golden Temple :D
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NoName55
06-17-2007, 04:11 PM
not sailed past The Golden Temple
his sails may have got burnt

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Sinbad
06-17-2007, 04:14 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by AvarAllahNoor
Thankyou. They do carry swords, but they are not to be sued in a malicious way, only defence.

The domes are indeed solid gold.

btw - You being Sinbad, I'm surprised you've not sailed past The Golden Temple :D
Solid Gold, nice. Not like those fake islamic ones that have gold plates, or paint over the domes!

Haha yes my name, it is written in a time when Bagdad was a persian town during the caliphate, ir wasnt untill much later all the people in iraq became arabs.

I bet that a sikh nation can do good, I havent seen one sikh that dosent work all the time. India is to corrupt it is in the hindu culture. And Pakistan is illiterate.

Khalistan with all sikhs will probably get far.
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Sinbad
06-17-2007, 04:15 PM
Heres the only pure solid gold islamic shrine, of course it is in Iran.

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NoName55
06-17-2007, 04:20 PM
A Question, If I may ask

Is there a concept of shrine in Islam? If you say yes, could you explain to me
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AvarAllahNoor
06-17-2007, 04:26 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by NoName55
his sails may have got burnt

lol

Sinabad, yes looks nice. Although having gold does not make it any more holy, it's just decoration in that sense.
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Bittersteel
06-17-2007, 04:35 PM
okay what does the video show?
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Sinbad
06-17-2007, 04:37 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by AvarAllahNoor
lol

Sinabad, yes looks nice. Although having gold does not make it any more holy, it's just decoration in that sense.
I dont think anything is holy. But shrines are a symbol for the nation and province and city et c.

If its solid gold, its the best of the best. Advanced architecture is also good. Size is not as important.
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Sinbad
06-17-2007, 04:39 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Aziz
okay what does the video show?
Diffrent things, one of them is "city diving":D
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wilberhum
06-17-2007, 06:47 PM
Many societies classify people.
It is one of the ways the dominate group supports there clam of superiority. :raging: That is why we have Dalits and Dhimmies. :skeleton:
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AvarAllahNoor
06-17-2007, 06:54 PM
Yes. They should do something about that. Plus if the stopped being stupid and saying the world rests on the bulls horns they could end poverty by eating all those cows that roam about.
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Bittersteel
06-17-2007, 07:00 PM
even in Bangladesh there is a class system.we are secular BTW.
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NoName55
06-17-2007, 08:06 PM
I held my peace for 1 hour as I promised. Since the post I reported has not been replied to, by the admin, I'll object to it, here and now.
one of the ways the dominate group supports there clam of superiority.

That is why we have Dalits and Dhimmies.

ever since I can remember, I have seen this person post nothing but hate messages, distortions and lies against Islaam, openly as well masquerading as somethings that look like innocent comment to casual reader.

we have Dalits and Dhimmies
where? and how do the 2 concepts compare?
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wilberhum
06-17-2007, 08:12 PM
where? and how do the 2 concepts compare?
Both denote inferiority.
hate messages
Only if you think not excepting your superiority is hate.
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NoName55
06-17-2007, 08:18 PM
marked sign of a lying distotionist is that he/she never addresses the question put but goes off on tangents and/or picks the most stupid way to select a tiny bit of question and starts to argue over that instead of dealing with the actual subject matter
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Philosopher
06-17-2007, 08:31 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by AvarAllahNoor
lol a point well made mate. :D

india is not my country PANJAB is. But as i reside here I regard England as my home.

A turban wearing man does not represent a Sikh!
Panjab is part of India.
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nevesirth
06-17-2007, 08:33 PM
well, wht can i say?
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Sinbad
06-17-2007, 09:42 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Philosopher
Panjab is part of India.
India is not a nation, its a federation of several nations left over from brittish occupation of several countries.
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wilberhum
06-17-2007, 09:48 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by NoName55
marked sign of a lying distotionist is that he/she never addresses the question put but goes off on tangents and/or picks the most stupid way to select a tiny bit of question and starts to argue over that instead of dealing with the actual subject matter
Can't read? I posted;
Many societies classify people.
It is one of the ways the dominate group supports there clam of superiority. That is why we have Dalits and Dhimmies.
That is exactly why it is like that.

You just don't like the answer when a post to show discus at another society makes you look at your self. :?
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nevesirth
06-17-2007, 11:28 PM
imagine indians were crying because of alledged racism when actress shilpa shetti was on celebrity big brother uk. when the way the dalits are treated is a lot was than the so called racism on the tv show. i guess shilpa herself wud treat dalits like they were less than human. how pathetic.
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Sinbad
06-17-2007, 11:54 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by nevesirth
imagine indians were crying because of alledged racism when actress shilpa shetti was on celebrity big brother uk. when the way the dalits are treated is a lot was than the so called racism on the tv show. i guess shilpa herself wud treat dalits like they were less than human. how pathetic.
no its normal, turks in germany are seen as thieves, kurds in Turkey are seen as thieves.

what is it with you people? You see racism as something strange.
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DaNgErOuS MiNdS
06-17-2007, 11:56 PM
That's a really tough life, sad to see.
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nevesirth
06-18-2007, 12:10 AM
well, the truth is tht most if not all humans are racist in their own ways. most pple who claim 2 be victims of racism also act racist towards people who they consider themselves superior to. u would be shocked if u knew the intensity of racism in the black communities, especially in africa, and wht makes it worse is tht theirs is coupled with tribalism. ull hear some tribes refering to other tribes as inferior and are treated as such even though they belong to the same race.

i dont want to sound judgemental but i feel the dalits themselves will also act racist towards some africans if they came across them.

jst ask some somalis wht they feel about west africans, ull be shocked at their views. well racism is a part of human nature. it only hurts when one is a victim of racial discrimination of any sort!!!!!!!!!
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nevesirth
06-19-2007, 08:23 AM
no ones speaking on this topic again? well, i guess the issue of racism is such a sensitive one and when discussed pple really get a picture of who they are and some of those who condemn racism are jst hypocrites.
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wilberhum
06-19-2007, 05:44 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by nevesirth
no ones speaking on this topic again? well, i guess the issue of racism is such a sensitive one and when discussed pple really get a picture of who they are and some of those who condemn racism are jst hypocrites.
I noticed that too. My second grade teacher said "When you point a finger at someone, there are 3 point back at you". Some wisdom in that.

Every one has some degree of racism. :?
But it is so much easier to see it in some one else. :skeleton:
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nevesirth
06-19-2007, 07:11 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by wilberhum
I noticed that too. My second grade teacher said "When you point a finger at someone, there are 3 point back at you". Some wisdom in that.

Every one has some degree of racism. :?
But it is so much easier to see it in some one else. :skeleton:
well said!!!!!! i guess this the first time we are actually agreeing on an issue, lol.
keep up the good work.
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wilberhum
06-19-2007, 07:26 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by nevesirth
well said!!!!!! i guess this the first time we are actually agreeing on an issue, lol.
keep up the good work.
I thought it was you doing the "good work". :D

I have more of a tendency to disagree with those that paint the world in black or white and miss the 98 shades of gray. :skeleton:

We probably atgree on a lot more things than you would guess. :thumbs_up
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smile
06-21-2007, 07:55 PM
many of them have converted to Buddhism because of this
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nevesirth
06-22-2007, 09:15 AM
well, i think there are a lot of beautiful dalit girls, i luv their complexion they so fine!!!!!!!!!! lol
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wilberhum
06-22-2007, 04:33 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by nevesirth
well, i think there are a lot of beautiful dalit girls, i luv their complexion they so fine!!!!!!!!!! lol
I bet you think the handicaped are fun to watch. :raging:
Sick
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smile
06-22-2007, 04:45 PM
:peace: ^o) :rollseyes :rollseyes ^o) :omg: :crickey: :peace: :peace:
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islamirama
06-22-2007, 04:59 PM
Dalits convert to Islam, Buddhism and Christianity
By MG News Desk

New Delhi, October 28 (MG): Over a hundred Dalits (low-caste Hindus) converted to Buddhism, Islam and Christianity, Sunday, October 27, in protest against the inequality in Hindu religion, which treats Dalits as sub-human, even less important than cattle.

The new converts included families of the five Dalits lynched on October 15 for skinning a dead cow. For hundreds of generations these people have been skinning dead animals. High-caste Hindus worship the cow as “ mother,” and are generally anti-cow slaughter. However, they have traditionally allowed skinning of dead animals, including cows, and their trade.

On October 15, a mob of 2000 upper caste Hindus lynched five Dalit young men for having “ killed” a cow barely 60 kilometres from the national capital as 50 policemen and senior government officials watched silently. Families of victims say that their relatives were actually killed by the police for refusing to pay high bribes. The latest round of conversions has come in response to that event.

Dalits are aggrieved not only about the continuing harassment and humiliation at the hands of high-caste Hindus, but by the justification of such harassment by religious leaders. Soon after the lynching, a high-profile Hindu religious leader, Giriraj Kishore, told newspersons in Delhi that as per Hindu scriptures, “ the life of a cow is more precious than a man’ s.”

Dalit leader Udit Raj, himself a convert from Hinduism to Buddhism, said Sunday, October 27, that Hindu religious and ultranationalist organisations like “ the VHP, Bajrang Dal and RSS and their so-called leaders are forcing the Dalits across the country to convert to different religions” . He said that the guilty had been allowed to go scotfree which meant that the government was anti-Dalit.

Dalits had been oppressed for the last 5,000 years, since Vedic times, because the Hindu religious scriptures sanctioned such mistreatment. “ That left Dalits with no other option than abandoning Hinduism for a dignified life,” Udit Raj added.

Nearly half a century ago, one of the greatest Dalit leaders and the architect of the Indian Constitution, Dr BR Ambedkar, renounced Hinduism along with half a million other Dalits to join Buddhisim. Ambedekar said, “ I was born a Hindu, but I will not die one” . He said there would be no emancipation of Dalits unless they left the religion (Hinduism) which allowed such discriminatory treatment of Dalits.

The present leader, Udit Raj, is a follower of Ambedkar. He supports conversion as “ a healthy process” . “ Conversion from one’ s existing religion to another leads to a change of thought, ” he asserts.

The government, instead of nabbing the guilty, sent the dead cow for post-mortem examination to determine whether the cow had been killed or had died of some other cause!. Fortunately for other Dalits, the post-mortem report said it had died one day before the lynching of the Dalits.

“ We do not want to be a part of a religion in which there is a premium on a dead cow,” said Chhattar Singh, relative of two of the lynched Dalits. Criticising Hindu religious leader Giriraj Kishore for his observation that “ a cow’ s life is more precious than a man’ s,” Udit Raj said, “ the system which has the cow and Kishore in it is not worth much.”

That the Dalits had changed religion in defiance of Hindu caste oppression was evident form one Dalit’ s name after converting to Islam. He chose to rename himself as "Saddam Hussein." A prominent member of the Dalit community in Gurgaon, his previous name was "Bhim Shankar Das Khairatia".

The new Saddam Hussein said, “ I know how the Western world is after Saddam. He is a hero.” After Meenakshipuram (a place in the south Indian state of Tamil Nadu) conversions of early 1980s in which 180 Dalit families embraced Islam, this one was the most dramatic protest against caste oppression which the lynching symbolised.

Last August, 250 Dalits converted to Christianity in Tamil Nadu to escape oppression. Last year 1,500 similarly oppressed low-caste Hindus embraced Christianity.

According to the BBC, 400 Dalits in Tamil Nadu are planning to convert to Islam “ because of what they describe as persistent unfair treatment by their higher-caste Hindu neighbours.”

Dalits who converted Sunday to Islam said they preferred this religion because it emphasised equality and brotherhood, which they missed in their earlier religion. Islam also gave them dignity, which they never knew as Hindus.

The conversion yesterday took place during a huge Dalit rally in Gurgaon, south of Delhi, against the lynching. About 100 Dalits embraced Islam, while about 15 chose Buddhism and around three preferred Christianity.

The rally, attended by around 7000 Dalits, decided not to celebrate Diwali, festival of lights, this year in protest against the lynching. They also decided to converge on Dulina, where the lynching took place, on November 4. More conversions will take place on that date.

The electronic media here chose to ignore this event while today's newspapers chose to ignore the fact that the majority converted to Islam which was confirmed to MG by Dr Muhammad Rafiq Azad who performed the rites of the Dalits' conversion to Islam yesterday at Gurgaon

http://www.milligazette.com/dailyupdate/20021028.htm
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nevesirth
06-22-2007, 04:59 PM
well, i wsnt being sarcastic when i said many dalit girls are beautiful. i meant it.are u trying to compare them to handicaps wilberhum? i dnt get wht u mean. or is it 2 hard 4 u to beleif my remarks were genuine? maybe u dnt understand wht is meant by dalit.
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wilberhum
06-22-2007, 05:10 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by nevesirth
well, i wsnt being sarcastic when i said many dalit girls are beautiful. i meant it.are u trying to compare them to handicaps wilberhum? i dnt get wht u mean. or is it 2 hard 4 u to beleif my remarks were genuine? maybe u dnt understand wht is meant by dalit.
LOL tells a different story.


I lived/worked in Delhi for 3 months. I have seen hundreds of Dalits.
It is a reminder of the inhumanity of humans.
The plight of those people will break your heart.
There beautiful about it.
Reply

nevesirth
06-22-2007, 06:36 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by islamirama
Dalits convert to Islam, Buddhism and Christianity
By MG News Desk

New Delhi, October 28 (MG): Over a hundred Dalits (low-caste Hindus) converted to Buddhism, Islam and Christianity, Sunday, October 27, in protest against the inequality in Hindu religion, which treats Dalits as sub-human, even less important than cattle.

The new converts included families of the five Dalits lynched on October 15 for skinning a dead cow. For hundreds of generations these people have been skinning dead animals. High-caste Hindus worship the cow as “ mother,” and are generally anti-cow slaughter. However, they have traditionally allowed skinning of dead animals, including cows, and their trade.

On October 15, a mob of 2000 upper caste Hindus lynched five Dalit young men for having “ killed” a cow barely 60 kilometres from the national capital as 50 policemen and senior government officials watched silently. Families of victims say that their relatives were actually killed by the police for refusing to pay high bribes. The latest round of conversions has come in response to that event.

Dalits are aggrieved not only about the continuing harassment and humiliation at the hands of high-caste Hindus, but by the justification of such harassment by religious leaders. Soon after the lynching, a high-profile Hindu religious leader, Giriraj Kishore, told newspersons in Delhi that as per Hindu scriptures, “ the life of a cow is more precious than a man’ s.”

Dalit leader Udit Raj, himself a convert from Hinduism to Buddhism, said Sunday, October 27, that Hindu religious and ultranationalist organisations like “ the VHP, Bajrang Dal and RSS and their so-called leaders are forcing the Dalits across the country to convert to different religions” . He said that the guilty had been allowed to go scotfree which meant that the government was anti-Dalit.

Dalits had been oppressed for the last 5,000 years, since Vedic times, because the Hindu religious scriptures sanctioned such mistreatment. “ That left Dalits with no other option than abandoning Hinduism for a dignified life,” Udit Raj added.

Nearly half a century ago, one of the greatest Dalit leaders and the architect of the Indian Constitution, Dr BR Ambedkar, renounced Hinduism along with half a million other Dalits to join Buddhisim. Ambedekar said, “ I was born a Hindu, but I will not die one” . He said there would be no emancipation of Dalits unless they left the religion (Hinduism) which allowed such discriminatory treatment of Dalits.

The present leader, Udit Raj, is a follower of Ambedkar. He supports conversion as “ a healthy process” . “ Conversion from one’ s existing religion to another leads to a change of thought, ” he asserts.

The government, instead of nabbing the guilty, sent the dead cow for post-mortem examination to determine whether the cow had been killed or had died of some other cause!. Fortunately for other Dalits, the post-mortem report said it had died one day before the lynching of the Dalits.

“ We do not want to be a part of a religion in which there is a premium on a dead cow,” said Chhattar Singh, relative of two of the lynched Dalits. Criticising Hindu religious leader Giriraj Kishore for his observation that “ a cow’ s life is more precious than a man’ s,” Udit Raj said, “ the system which has the cow and Kishore in it is not worth much.”

That the Dalits had changed religion in defiance of Hindu caste oppression was evident form one Dalit’ s name after converting to Islam. He chose to rename himself as "Saddam Hussein." A prominent member of the Dalit community in Gurgaon, his previous name was "Bhim Shankar Das Khairatia".

The new Saddam Hussein said, “ I know how the Western world is after Saddam. He is a hero.” After Meenakshipuram (a place in the south Indian state of Tamil Nadu) conversions of early 1980s in which 180 Dalit families embraced Islam, this one was the most dramatic protest against caste oppression which the lynching symbolised.

Last August, 250 Dalits converted to Christianity in Tamil Nadu to escape oppression. Last year 1,500 similarly oppressed low-caste Hindus embraced Christianity.

According to the BBC, 400 Dalits in Tamil Nadu are planning to convert to Islam “ because of what they describe as persistent unfair treatment by their higher-caste Hindu neighbours.”

Dalits who converted Sunday to Islam said they preferred this religion because it emphasised equality and brotherhood, which they missed in their earlier religion. Islam also gave them dignity, which they never knew as Hindus.

The conversion yesterday took place during a huge Dalit rally in Gurgaon, south of Delhi, against the lynching. About 100 Dalits embraced Islam, while about 15 chose Buddhism and around three preferred Christianity.

The rally, attended by around 7000 Dalits, decided not to celebrate Diwali, festival of lights, this year in protest against the lynching. They also decided to converge on Dulina, where the lynching took place, on November 4. More conversions will take place on that date.

The electronic media here chose to ignore this event while today's newspapers chose to ignore the fact that the majority converted to Islam which was confirmed to MG by Dr Muhammad Rafiq Azad who performed the rites of the Dalits' conversion to Islam yesterday at Gurgaon

http://www.milligazette.com/dailyupdate/20021028.htm
its high time the dalits started embracing islam. i was begining to wonder wht they were doin practicing a religion tht considers them less than human, even less than a cow!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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wilberhum
06-22-2007, 06:53 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by nevesirth
its high time the dalits started embracing islam. i was begining to wonder wht they were doin practicing a religion tht considers them less than human, even less than a cow!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Most people believe what there parents thought them.

Of course the attraction of religions is that they tell you that if you join them then you will be superior to everyone else. :-\

But I think the conversions have nothing to do with faith or religion.
I think it is all about having a better life in the here and now. :peace:
Reply

AFDAL
06-22-2007, 09:22 PM
high-profile Hindu religious leader, Giriraj Kishore, told newspersons in Delhi that as per Hindu scriptures, “ the life of a cow is more precious than a man’ s.

“ We do not want to be a part of a religion in which there is a premium on a dead cow,” said Chhattar Singh, relative of two of the lynched Dalits. Criticising Hindu religious leader Giriraj Kishore for his observation that “ a cow’ s life is more precious than a man’ s,” Udit Raj said, “ the system which has the cow and Kishore in it is not worth much.”
From these one can see what Hindu say about their religion regarding cow.

But I did not get my answer till now " What Islam say about this, I mean its view point "
Reply

AFDAL
06-29-2007, 07:13 PM
November 23, 1999

The Editor
The Boston Globe
Boston, Massachusetts,
United States of America

Dear Madam / Sir,

I was amused to read the article “Baptist book spurs march by Hindus” by Mr. Thomas Grillo in “The Boston Globe” edition dated 11/22/99. I was amused because those who believe in one of the most intolerant and bigoted religions in the World were complaining of intolerance by the Baptists. As a victim of Hindu bigotry and a witness to the social misery bred by Hindu intolerance, I pray for an opportunity from “The Boston Globe” to register my protest and to unmask the hypocrisy of the Hindus.

Hinduism espouses the division of people into hierarchically placed groups called “castes”. These castes are placed in a stepladder of ascending superiority and descending inferiority. People who are born into these castes should follow the ordained caste professions and marry only within their caste through arranged marriages. The beneficiaries of this system were the various Brahman castes who by virtue of their birth were free to follow intellectual pursuits at the advent of British colonial education making them modern India’s intellectual, scientific, and bureaucratic class. The various “Vysya” (trading) castes, placed below the Brahman castes and the Royal (“Kshatriya”) castes, have enjoyed the monopoly in trading activities for centuries, by virtue of their birth, thus becoming modern India’s corporate and business class. The “Shudras” are the various lower castes in the hierarchy who are considered as Hindus and members of caste Hindu society.

The “Dalits” (which is a Hebrew derivative meaning “broken people”) are the "outcasts" and “slaves” of the Hindu society of hierarchical castes. That is why the Dalit people are considered untouchable and made to live in segregated colonies outside the towns and villages where the caste Hindus live.

All the political parties in India are controlled by caste Hindus. When the British offered to give the Dalits "separate electorates" to enable them to participate in democracy more securely, the so-called "Mahatma" (Gandhi) who strongly believed in the caste system went on protest fast until death. The Dalit leader Dr.B.R.Ambedkar had to refuse the British offer (of separate electorates) because he was afraid that if Gandhi died by fasting the Hindus will use the opportunity to organize wholesale massacres of Dalit people all over India. Mahatma Gandhi was a bigot belonging to one of the “Vysya” castes who believed in the concept of graded superiority of birth espoused by the Hindu caste system.

The recent killings of Christian missionaries, burning of Churches and gang rapes of Catholic nuns by Hindu fanatical elements belonging to the vast supportive network of the BJP party and the RSS (“Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh”) known as the "Sangh Parivar", is motivated by the caste bigotry of the Hindus. The caste Hindus want to preserve the outcast status of the Dalits and tribals by preventing the Christian missionaries from educating and converting the Dalits. The Hindus feel that the work of the Christian missionaries will destroy the Dalits' bondage to outcast status through education, conversion and spiritual liberation. Even last month a Catholic nun was stripped naked and urinated upon by a gang of Hindu fanatics in north India. A Catholic priest Rev. Fr. Arul Das was murdered by the same Hindu fanatic (Dara Singh) who also burnt an Australian missionary (Mr.Graham Staines) and his two little sons alive until they died in great pain.

Hindu society is a wasteland of hatred spawned by the bigotry of the hierarchically placed Hindu castes. Apart from bickering with one another, the Caste Hindus, whether they are upper or lower in the caste hierarchy are united in their hatred for the Dalits. No attempt has been made in the 50 years of India's independence to integrate Dalits with the mainstream of society. State sponsored services such as primary schools, medical clinics, offices of government departments or a public telephone, are always established in the caste Hindus section of the village or town and not in the segregated colonies where the Dalit people are forced to live.

The Hindu identity is forced on all Dalits (despite being outcasts of Hindu society) and also on all atheists. According to the Hindu Civil Law all those who are not Christians and Muslims are "Hindus". Those Dalits who convert to Christianity are made to lose the concessions provided in state employment and education. Thus the victims of the caste system are kept in perpetual bondage by law and those who seek to escape this bondage by conversion are penalized.

The single most factor that makes the Dalits suffer and live in fear is the violence unleashed on them almost on a daily basis by the Hindus. Every hour, a Dalit person is raped or killed in some part of India. In the district of Cuddalore in Tamil Nadu State in India, four Dalit women (Sakunthala, Victoria, Ponnaruvi and Susheela) were gang raped and killed by caste Hindus during the past year. In all the cases none of the culprits were arrested and no investigation was done. Arbitrary arrests, imprisonment and framing of Dalits for crimes they have not committed are a common practice. In north Indian states such as Bihar wholesale massacres of Dalit villages occurs regularly.

The police force of the Caste Hindus is the worst oppressor against the Dalits. Dalit women are raped in the police precinct itself by the cops. In a famous case that occurred in 1993, a Dalit woman named Padmini was gang raped by five cops in front of her husband at the police station of Annamalai Nagar in Chidambaram district of Tamil Nadu State in India. The cops then killed her husband after gang raping Padmini. None of the policemen were punished for the capital offence. They were slapped with minimal sentences for the gang rape. In a tribal area called "Vachathi" in India, the police posse, which came to catch a brigand gang, raped almost the entire female population of the tribal settlement. None of the cops who indulged in the mass rape were punished for this gruesome crime which happened in 1994.

Rape is the most common risk faced by a Dalit woman in the Hindu society.

The English language dictionary even now carries the word "Pariah" (which is the Tamil name for the large population of Dalits living in Tamil Nadu in India) to convey the meaning of "outcast".

Even though India likes to call herself a democracy, it is only a fake democracy as far as the Dalits are concerned. Large scale bogus voting and preventing Dalits from voting are very common in India. During the recent parliamentary elections, Dalits (Pariahs) living in the parliamentary constituency of "Chidambaram" in India where attacked, molested and their huts burnt to ashes by the caste Hindus placed at a lower hierarchy called “Vanniyars” to prevent the Dalits from voting. The bigoted police force actively participated in the violence and arson against the Dalits. Totally 17 Dalit villages were burnt to ashes and three Dalits were killed in the Chidambaram area. Around 50,000 Dalits could not vote and all the Dalit votes were fraudulently cast by the caste Hindu Vanniyars whose PMK (Pattali Makkal Katchi) party candidate in alliance with the Hindu fanatic BJP party was declared elected in Chidambaram. He (Mr.Ponnusamy) is now a minister in the cabinet of Prim e Minister Vajpayee.

In short, the Hindus of India are so bigoted and hateful that they will never allow the Dalits to taste a sense of equality and dignity. Even though the present President of India is a Dalit he is just a constitutional figurehead without any executive power.

The tragedy is that the caste system is being spread rapidly even in the United States by the Brahmans and other caste Hindus who have emigrated to the USA during the past forty years. For example, in the Hindu temples built in the USA, only those who are born into the most superior caste of Brahmans are allowed to be priests. Even in the USA, lower caste Hindus and outcast Dalits are not allowed to touch the idol in temples to perform religious rites. In effect, the Hindus have managed to bring untouchability and the caste system into the United States in the garb of religious freedom even though it violates the Civil Rights laws of the United States.

In 1989, when I was a student in Los Angeles, the priest (Brahman) in a Hindu temple in California who knew my background prevented me from entering the room (sanctum sanctorum) where the idol was kept because I was a Dalit. Upper caste Hindus in the United States and the Brahmans in particular, who live in large numbers in the USA vigorously practice the caste system. This is evident from the way they psychologically despise African-Americans, arrange marriages for their children strictly within their caste and harbor feelings of superiority because of their caste Hindu heritage. I know many castes Hindu friends in the US, especially Brahmans, who credit their academic achievement to their intellectual superiority (over Americans) due to their "natural" intelligence inherited “genetically” through "caste superiority".

No wonder Adolf Hitler chose the Hindu symbol of "Swastika" to represent the political message of superiority by birth of those born into his race.

Hindus who protest the Baptists’ criticism of Hinduism should ponder how the Hindu Civil Law has forcibly converted outcast victims (Dalits) who were never allowed membership into the society and religion of the Hindu castes. The segregated dwellings of Dalits all over India, the denial of admission to Dalits into Vedic schools which teach Hindu scriptures and the ban on Dalits from working as priests in Hindu temples obviously prove how the Hindu identity is thrust on the very people who are victimized by it.

Hindus should wax eloquently about the intolerance of other religions after destroying the hierarchical bigotry of castes and other inherent evils in the Hindu faith. Burning brides for dowry, killing people for caste bigotry, sanctioning inequality and segregation in the name of God, preventing widows from marrying, burning widows in the funeral pyre of their husbands, allowing slavery of Dalits and tribals in the form of bonded labor, female infanticide, forcing women into prostitution at temples in the name of serving God (Devadasis) are all some of the evil practices of Hinduism which are still prevalent in many parts of India. Baptists are fully justified in their remarks about Hinduism.

Hindus should criticize Christian missionaries for their drive to convert Hindus into Christianity after scrapping the Hindu Civil Law in India which "forcibly converts" all non-Christians and non-Moslems, (including atheists, outcast non-Hindu Dalits, tribals, Buddhists, Sikhs and Jains) into the Hindu religious fold.

People living in glass houses should not throw stones.

Yours truly,

Dr.Iniyan Elango.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dr. Iniyan Elango is a general physician and psychotherapist practicing at Chennai, India. He also edits a monthly periodical called “Dalit Times.” He recently shot a video documentary about the violence and arson that prevented Dalits from voting in the Chidambaram area in India. The TIME magazine in its issue dated August 02, 1999 published his letter about the relationship between violence in motion pictures and campus violence. He is also the President of the “Tamilar Human Rights Organization” and a co-founder of the “Dalit Media Network”. He is 34 years old.

http://www.cwo.com/~lucumi/letter.html
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AFDAL
06-29-2007, 07:35 PM
COMMUNICATION
Who is enemy of Muslims in India
USMAN KHALID, DIRECTOR, LISA, LONDON

Here is the Indian propaganda line repeated ad-infinitum since 1940. Why can't the Hindu understand that it is not the West -Europe or America -that has been the enemy of Islam or the Muslims in the 20th century? The Muslims see the Brahminic system as the enemy, not just of the Muslims but of all humanity - Muslims, Christians, Sikhs and the Untouchable majority in India. The partition in 1947 helped two-thirds of the Muslims of British India to escape the shackles of Brahmin Samaj that characterizes the social scene of India today. The remaining one-third who lives in India have to carry on their struggle against the most diabolical and the most iniquitous social system on earth - the Hindu caste system.

The Untouchables, who were cajoled into joint electorate with the upper castes (Hindus) in 1932 (Poona Pact) are wide awake now. They are eager to unite all Bahujans including Muslims and Christians and isolate themselves from the poison of Hindu Samaj. They recognize that the 1947 partition brought freedom from Hindu Samaj to 300 million Muslims who enjoy sovereignty in Pakistan and Bangladesh while they are hunted and hounded inside India. Even in Kashmir where they are in majority and have always had a Muslim Chief Minister, wanton bloodshed of Muslims continues. Some Muslims have been bought by Hindus in the past - like Maulana Azad- and more have been bought later. But traitors are not representatives of Muslims, they are just traitors.

http://www.dalitvoice.org/Templates/...5/articles.htm
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wilberhum
06-29-2007, 07:43 PM
Why can't the Hindu understand that it is not the West -Europe or America -that has been the enemy of Islam or the Muslims in the 20th century?
My, what do you say about the "War on Islam"?
There isn't a day on this forum that I don't see some one saying that the world is against Islam.
It seams that you have more than a small amount of hatred for Hindus. Why is that?
Reply

Bittersteel
06-29-2007, 07:54 PM
It seams that you have more than a small amount of hatred for Hindus. Why is that?
they have a more than a small amount of hatred for Muslims.by Hindus I am referring to the Indians mostly.Other than the Hindus,there are the Jatts and the Sikhs who seem to hate us.and they got dear Pakistan to despise and make movies about.
Reply

AFDAL
06-29-2007, 08:01 PM
It seams that you have more than a small amount of hatred for Hindus. Why is that?
Now according to you who are the hindus ? The 15 &#37; urine drinking / cow sheet eating population or the so called dalits together ?
Reply

wilberhum
06-29-2007, 08:04 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Aziz
they have a more than a small amount of hatred for Muslims.by Hindus I am referring to the Indians mostly.Other than the Hindus,there are the Jatts and the Sikhs who seem to hate us.and they got dear Pakistan to despise and make movies about.
Ah gee. Poor victim. No one loves you. You hate them because they hate you.

I can see it now, some Indian saying "they have a more than a small amount of hatred for Hindus by Muslims I am referring ............"

Do you think your hate solves or creates problems?
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