Do you love God, or fear the day of judgment?

[Sinbad]

Whenever something bad happens to a religous person they think it might just be life. When something good happens, its suddenly a gift from God.

Are you a muslim cause you love God, or cause you fear hell?

If you where doomed to go to hell, no matter what, would you still pray 5 times a day et c?

[NoName55]

do you love God, or fear the day of judgment?

both, now be off with you!

[Woodrow]

Whenever something bad happens to a religous person they think it might just be life. When something good happens, its suddenly a gift from God.

There is no such thing as 'bad" things coming from God(swt) All of life is our choices. We may be given difficult challenges that do test us, but they too are gifts. All in life is a gift from Allah(swt) it is only our choices and/or perceptions that can cause us to not under stand the goodness of all of Allah's(swt) Gifts

Are you a muslim cause you love God, or cause you fear hell?

I'm Muslim only because I found it to be the only true way to Worship Allah(swt). I worship Allah(swt) out of love.

If you where doomed to go to hell, no matter what, would you still pray 5 times a day et c?

Why would I want to cut back on the number of times I Pray?

[Sinbad]

both, now be off with you!

How can you love God for being so good, and at the same time beign scared of not praying 5 times a day for ethernal ****ation?

According to zorotism, and judaism, all people that have not done something horrible go to heaven, or paradise. According to christianity and islam, you have to be super super super good and do all the rites, or else you will be ethernaly ****ed.

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[Sinbad]

There is no such thing as 'bad" things coming from God(swt) All of life is our choices. We may be given difficult challenges that do test us, but they too are gifts. All in life is a gift from Allah(swt) it is only our choices and/or perceptions that can cause us to not under stand the goodness of all of Allah's(swt) Gifts

very good point.

I'm Muslim only because I found it to be the only true way to Worship Allah(swt). I worship Allah(swt) out of love.

So all who is not a muslim, even those that never ever heard of islam will suffer an ethernety?

Why would I want to cut back on the number of times I Pray?

That was not the queston, I God told you that you will go to hell no mather what, would you still pray 5 times a day?

[- Qatada -]

When the Children of Israeel got the message, they were excessively rebellious - so Allaah sent them revelation which was strong and harsh so they would return back to Allaah.

When the Christians got the message, they claimed that Jesus son of Mary died for ALL of their sins, and claimed it was a message of pure love.


When Allaah revealed the message to His final Messenger, Muhammad (peace be upon him) - He sent the message to a people who were rough and harsh by nature (i.e. the bedouin arabs etc.) Yet at the same time, there were good people among them. And this is the case with the majority of humanity today. So He sent a Message which was just right - the middle way.


We as Muslims have love for Allaah, for ALL the good which He has given to us and the creation, for free. When we do good, we hope for His reward, and if we do evil - we fear His punishment due to our disobedience to Him.


Ibn Al Qayyim, a great scholar said - The love is like the heart of a bird, it's required to keep the bird alive, yet the concepts of Hope and Fear are like the two wings, if one was to outweigh or make the other imbalanced, then the bird would fall.

So we have the concept of love, hope and fear to keep us alive on persistent on the path towards Allaah, and this will continue until we die, and move onto the life of the hereafter.

Thus, have We made of you an Ummat [nation - true muslims] justly balanced, that ye might be witnesses over the nations, and the Messenger a witness over yourselves..

[Qur'an 2: 143]

[- Qatada -]

Whenever something bad happens to a religous person they think it might just be life. When something good happens, its suddenly a gift from God.

Whenever someone is trialled in this life, it is because of what their own hands brought forth. Yet it is a trial from Allaah, whether it's wealth/poverty, health/sickness, good/bad etc.

Are you a muslim cause you love God, or cause you fear hell?

I love Allaah, and as a muslim i should fear disobeying Allaah since His punishment is severe against the wrongdoers.

If you where doomed to go to hell, no matter what, would you still pray 5 times a day et c?

That's the whole concept of the test - you don't know the answer, so you remain firm on doing good to get to Paradise. So the question isn't valid anyway.

[- Qatada -]

So all who is not a muslim, even those that never ever heard of islam will suffer an ethernety?

Those people will be tested by Allaah on the Day of Judgement. Allaah doesn't punish a people until He has sent them a Messenger who made the message clear to them.

[united]

Whenever something bad happens to a religous

If you where doomed to go to hell, no matter what, would you still pray 5 times a day et c?

The whole point of life is that life is a test. No one is doomed to anything. you have the choice to choose where you want to go.
God is not just a name. He is who He is with his 99 names/attributes and that is who Muslims love.

[Woodrow]

very good point.

So all who is not a muslim, even those that never ever heard of islam will suffer an ethernety?

Allah(swt) does not expect us to do what we have not been told or have the ability to understand. I do not know the will of Allah(swt) and I do not know who he will send to Hellfire. But, I do know he is just and Mrcifull.

That was not the queston, I God told you that you will go to hell no mather what, would you still pray 5 times a day?

I would pray no less than I do now. some days I can pray 7 times a day some days I will be asleep for 12 or 18 hours and unable to pray. Quite often I do have to pray in bed and can not pray properly, but I do still pray from where ever I am and and close as properly, as I am physically able to. there is no reason for me to ever reduce my prayers because I am doomed to hellfire. If I am one of the unfortunates who does go to the Hellfire, hopefully I will still do my best to worship Allah(swt) from there.

[August]

If I am one of the unfortunates who does go to the Hellfire, hopefully I will still do my best to worship Allah(swt) from there.

That makes me sad, Woodrow. You think that even if you remain faithfull, God might chuck you into Hell anyway? I know that God will not abandon me as long as I remain faithfull to Christ. How do you stay with a faith that offers so little assurance? No offense intended, but why would you worship a God who sent you to Hell?

[Sinbad]

That makes me sad, Woodrow. You think that even if you remain faithfull, God might chuck you into Hell anyway? I know that God will not abandon me as long as I remain faithfull to Christ. How do you stay with a faith that offers so little assurance? No offense intended, but why would you worship a God who sent you to Hell?

Its called fear. Many women fall inlove with men that beats them. Yo feel that you are in place and have a purpose in life.

[Pygoscelis]

That makes me sad, Woodrow. You think that even if you remain faithfull, God might chuck you into Hell anyway? I know that God will not abandon me as long as I remain faithfull to Christ. How do you stay with a faith that offers so little assurance? No offense intended, but why would you worship a God who sent you to Hell?

I've always found the idea that faithfulness to X God is the path to salvation, instead of say, being nice to people, rather repugnant.

[vpb]

Are you a muslim cause you love God, or cause you fear hell?

If you where doomed to go to hell, no matter what, would you still pray 5 times a day et c?

Ibn Taymyah, may Allah have mercy on him, defines 'worship' and says: “Worship is a general noun for every action that Allah loves and is pleased, from actions, words, those done in public or secretly."


Ibn Kathir says: "(Worship is a) General noun which puts together love, submission and fear".

We are muslims bc we Love Allah swt, He is the only one who deserves to be worshipped, and bc we fear him.
There is no such thing in Islam as "just love" or "just fear". it's both.

[Malaikah]

How do you stay with a faith that offers so little assurance?

God promised the Muslims paradise as long as they do their bit. God doesn't through people in t hell if they didn't earn it. We have been promised that something like 70 million* Muslims will enter paradise without even being held to account and not punishment at all, and the stories of God's mercy are many, especially on the Day of Judgement (He will forgive so many sins that even the devil hmself will be hopeful that he will be forgiven) ... so there is some level of assurance.

*There is more information in a report narrated in the Musnad of Imaam Ahmad and the Sunan of al-Tirmidhi and Ibn Maajah, where Abu Umaamah is reported to have said that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “My Lord promised me that seventy thousand of my ummah will enter Paradise without being brought to account or being punished; with each thousand of them will be another seventy thousand, plus three handfuls of the handfuls of my Lord, may He be glorified.”

http://www.islam-qa.com/index.php?ref=4203&ln=eng

I know that God will not abandon me as long as I remain faithfull to Christ.

This statement means nothing to a Muslim because we see your 'faith' towards Jesus as nothing but a potential one-way ticket to hell.:-\

[vpb]

This statment means nothing to a Muslim because we see your 'faith' towards Jesus as nothing but a potential one-way ticket to hell.

All tickets to hell are one-way, just depends wether u want it business class or economic class.

[Joe98]

There is no such thing as 'bad" things coming from God. All of life is our choices.

Yes I agree. And because I agree it means there can't be a god. Over and over again on this forum people prove there is no god.

When an athiest cuts off your little finger this does not come from god.

When you collapse in the gutter and an athiest saves your life with CPR that too doesn't come from god.

Thanks for agreeing there is no god.

-

[Joe98]

All tickets to hell are one-way, just depends wether u want it business class or economic class.

Is this type of humour halal??????????

-

[Woodrow]

That makes me sad, Woodrow. You think that even if you remain faithfull, God might chuck you into Hell anyway? I know that God will not abandon me as long as I remain faithfull to Christ. How do you stay with a faith that offers so little assurance? No offense intended, but why would you worship a God who sent you to Hell?

I suppose this is where we differ. I do not see that Allah(swt) would abandon me. I do not know what can or will happen up to the moment I do die. Like you say you have assurance as long as you remain faithful to Christ(as). My words are similar. As long as I die as a believer, there is no worry. But, being human i will not pretend that I do not have weaknesses. Remember even Satan was very close to Allah(swt), but at the last minute he managed to throw it all away. I do not believe Allah(swt) would send me to Hell, but I believe that it is possible for me to stray right up to the moment of death.

Oddly, while you say it makes you sad, I look at it as a reminder that I am weak and that i do have a need to continuously ask for guidance.

[vpb]

Is this type of humour halal??????????

who said it was humour? it can be just metaphoric.

When an athiest cuts off your little finger this does not come from god.

if you cut my finger,I get hasanat (rewards) and also it would be just a test from Allah az. :)

[Phil12123]

God promised the Muslims paradise as long as they do their bit. God doesn't throw people into hell if they didn't earn it.

We are all sinners. We all deserve ("earn") hell by our sins. The Judgment is pay day.

"The wages [what we earn for sins] is death, but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord" (Rom. 6:23).

We have been promised that something like 49 million Muslims will enter paradise without even being held to account and no punishment at all, and the stories of God's mercy are many, especially on the Day of Judgement (He will forgive so many sins that even the devil himself will be hopeful that he will be forgiven) ... so there is some level of assurance.

Muslims on this board have mocked the Christian position of assurance of salvation found, among other places, in verses like 1 John 5:13 --- "These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life, and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God." We have the Word of God that assures us of His love, forgiveness, and eternal life. Where in the world did anyone come up with the bogus idea that 49 million Muslims will enter Paradise without being judged???

Never mind, I know where --- "the devil himself will be hopeful that he will be forgiven"!!!

That's a lie from the devil himself because his fate is already sealed. Rev. 20:10 says, "And the devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

And everyone who believes his lies will end up in the same place with the same fate.

Here's another one of his lies:

This statement means nothing to a Muslim because we see your 'faith' towards Jesus as nothing but a potential one-way ticket to hell.

And while I'm pointing out the devil's lies, I should reiterate this big one which I've mentioned before:

Matthew 16:
21. From that time Jesus began to show to His disciples that He must go to Jerusalem, and suffer many things from the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised again the third day.
22. Then Peter took Him aside and began to rebuke Him, saying, "Far be it from You, Lord; this shall not happen to You!''
23. But He turned and said to Peter, "Get behind Me, Satan! You are an offense to Me, for you are not mindful of the things of God, but the things of men.''.

Right after Peter confessed that Jesus was "the Christ, the Son of the Living God," which Jesus said was revealed to him by the Father in heaven, Peter actually rebukes Jesus after Jesus said He would be killed and raised again the third day. "Far be it from You, Lord; this shall not happen to You!" Jesus turned to Peter and said, "Get behind Me, Satan! You are an offense to Me..." That Jesus would NOT die and be raised again was NOT given to Peter by the Father, but by Satan himself. Satan told Muhammad the same thing, No, it didn't happen to Jesus. By that we know that Muhammad, and what he wrote and taught about Jesus not dying at Calvary, was/is an offense to Christ.

[Abdul Fattah]

to your question: "do I worship out of fear or love" I reply, my reasons worship is not limited to a single emotion. I fear Allah, I love Allah, I am thankfull to him, I am endebted to him, I am happy with him, etc there's no contradiction in having mixed emotions.

As for your question: "would you still pray if you were certain of hell"
That's a very tricky question.

First of All, if you mean in this life then I'd reply: Until we die we can always ask for God's forgiveness. So your hypothetical situation is inconsistent with our faith. So to answer it from our religion is a bit pointless. Allah is not the sort of deity you suggest by that question.

But lets say for example the day of judgment comes and I find out I'm supposed to go to hell (astagfurAllah) quite frankly I wouldn't know what to do. I think nobody knows untill that moment is actuallly there. I don't think speculating on it is very productive either.

[Curaezipirid]

Whenever something bad happens to a religous person they think it might just be life. When something good happens, its suddenly a gift from God.

Are you a muslim cause you love God, or cause you fear hell?

If you where doomed to go to hell, no matter what, would you still pray 5 times a day et c?

Take the OROut of the question.Ore else

No believers even WANT to forget to be in fear of Jehannam: because believers get better self-righteous pleasures from remembering Allah when fearing Jehannam.

(if you were an australian we'd just tell you to "get real")

[Curaezipirid]

"The wages [what we earn for sins] is death, but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord" (Rom. 6:23).[/B]

Yo!

The Wages quite literally!

because it is only by sihr that money is ever accepted as exchangable for any value from labour

wage=money=sihr=death

[------]

:salamext:

Muslims should have a balance of Love of Allaah, Fear of Allaah and Hope of Allaah's Mercy....

Read More Here

[------]

:salamext:

And about seeing Hell, I think this best sums it up;

Ye shall certainly see Hell-Fire!
Again, ye shall see it with certainty of sight!
Then, shall ye be questioned that Day about the joy (ye indulged in!).
[Qur'an, 102:6-8]

[Curaezipirid]

:salamext:

Muslims should have a balance of Love of Allaah, Fear of Allaah and Hope of Allaah's Mercy....

Read More Here

That is a good way of putting the reality of how we balance ourselves in Isa and Islam.

Reconciling that expression with Christianity is that our Love of Allah is the alike to belief in God being a Father, Fear of Allah is alike to belief in God being Holy Spirit, and Hope of Allah's Mercy, is alike to belief in God being of flesh and blood.

but even though that is how to reconcile Islamic thought with Christian, the Islamic teaching and expression is far more accurate

:salamext:

And about seeing Hell, I think this best sums it up;

I like the part about how those who hear will see and those who see will hear.

It teaches us that when we are tricked by a form of sihr, such that we either look or listen, and then also in our dreams only look or listen: that because our flesh and blood is still receptive to both senses, in the grave we will need to endure every sense we have ignored.

[Malaikah]

Phil12123,

While you are a guest in this forum, it would be good for you to show some respect and not refer to the teachings of our religion as lies from the devil!:skeleton:

As for the number, I got it wrong, initially 70,000 were promised, and then another 70,000 for every thousand... which I think is actually 70 million. Wow that is a lot, subhanaallah.

Never mind, I know where --- "the devil himself will be hopeful that he will be forgiven"!!!

That's a lie from the devil himself because his fate is already sealed. Rev. 20:10 says,[/B] "And the devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

I said he will hope to be forgiven, I did not say he will be forgiven. Two entirely different things. And he certainly will not be forgiven.

[Phil12123]

Phil12123,

While you are a guest in this forum, it would be good for you to show some respect and not refer to the teachings of our religion as lies from the devil!:skeleton:

Well, first of all, is that really a teaching of Islam? I don't remember seeing any verse citation from the Quran or other official source saying millions of people will not have to give an account of their lives at the judgment.

Secondly, is it consistent with other Quranic passages that say the opposite?

Thirdly, does it make any sense? Sounds like some sort of religious lottery that would just give a lot of people false hope of not having to account for their sins and getting into heaven free but not relying on Jesus or anyone else to pay for their sins.

Finally, I think we're all mature enough here to admit that we both think the other's point of view is a deception of the devil. Muslims think the Trinity teaching is a lie from the devil, right? And you don't hesitate to say that. I understand that and am not offended to hear you say that. I disagree but I'm not offended.

Christians think the Islamic teaching that Christ did not die on the cross for our sins is likewise a lie from the devil. That shouldn't surprise you, nor offend you. We're both just being real and speaking honestly.

As for the number, I got it wrong, initially 70,000 were promised, and then another 70,000 for every thousand... which I think is actually 70 million. Wow that is a lot, subhanaallah.

I said he will hope to be forgiven, I did not say he will be forgiven. Two entirely different things. And he certainly will not be forgiven.

To say the devil will hope to be forgiven doesn't make sense when his fate is already stated and he knows it. All it does is encourage really bad sinners to think, wow, if HE hopes to be forgiven, maybe I have a chance.... when they don't.

[Malaikah]

Well he is the idiot for feeling the hope then isn't he, given that he already knows he is doomed. No one ever said he was a smart one.

As for the source, here it is. It is authentic:

*There is more information in a report narrated in the Musnad of Imaam Ahmad and the Sunan of al-Tirmidhi and Ibn Maajah, where Abu Umaamah is reported to have said that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “My Lord promised me that seventy thousand of my ummah will enter Paradise without being brought to account or being punished; with each thousand of them will be another seventy thousand, plus three handfuls of the handfuls of my Lord, may He be glorified.”

http://www.islam-qa.com/index.php?ref=4203&ln=eng