Is this the so-called HAMAS Humanitarianism?

[guyabano]

Gaza's Christians fear for their lives

Christians living in Gaza City on Monday appealed to the international community to protect them against increased attacks by Muslim extremists. Many Christians said they were prepared to leave the Gaza Strip as soon as the border crossings are reopened.

The appeal came following a series of attacks on a Christian school and church in Gaza City over the past few days.

Father Manuel Musalam, leader of the small Latin community in the Gaza Strip, said masked gunmen torched and looted the Rosary Sisters School and the Latin Church.

"The masked gunmen used rocket-propelled grenades to storm the main entrances of the school and church," he said. "Then they destroyed almost everything inside, including the Cross, the Holy Book, computers and other equipment."

Musalam expressed outrage over the burning of copies of the Bible, noting that the gunmen destroyed all the Crosses inside the church and school. "Those who did these awful things have no respect for Christian-Muslim relations," he said.

He estimated damages at more than $500,000. "Those who see the destruction will realize how bad this attack was," he said. "Christians have been living in peace and security with Muslims for many years, but those who attacked us are trying to sabotage this relationship."

He said Palestinian Authority Chairman Mahmoud Abbas phoned him on Sunday night to express his strong condemnation for the attack. "President Abbas promised that he would do his utmost to prevent such attacks on Christians here," he said.

Fatah officials blamed Hamas militiamen for the attack on the church and school. However, Islam Shahwan, spokesman for Hamas's Executive Force in the Gaza Strip, denied responsibility.

He nevertheless admitted that a large group of Hamas militiamen had been near the area during the attack. "We have instructed all our men to withdraw from the area," he said. "We will punish anyone who targets churches and public institutions."

Source

[guyabano]

bump !

Sorry, mods, I found this thread approved today, but already few pages ago !

[thirdwatch512]

It should be an established fact that hamas is terrorist. They terrorize their own Christians who are just as palestinian as the muslims!

Did you know palestine used to be 25% Christian? Now though, they are either in Israel, or here in America, syria, or lebanon. Why? Because of the torture that hamas gives to them.

Goodness, sometimes it seems like the shia does a better job at treating the Christians better then the sunni. At least al sadr went and visited Christians in iraq and gave them aide!

In 1994 in Argentina 250 Jews were killed for no reason. Not a single one of them was from Israel. Not a signle one was in the Israeli government. They were jsut Jews living their life. And then, ibrahim hussein berro comes along and bombs them. Look at the brank transactions.. Both hamas and hezbollah gave him money before the attack. What does that tell you??!??

Supporting hamas is supporting terrorism.

I think america should offer asylum to any Christian in palestine, so that they can live a life in happiness and in freedom, and not fear their Churches being torn done.

[Skywalker]

Obviously you guys didn't read the article entirely if you're claiming that this is Hamas' doing... so before you get all "supporting hamas is supporting terrorism", please read the article.

Fatah officials blamed Hamas militiamen for the attack on the church and school. However, Islam Shahwan, spokesman for Hamas's Executive Force in the Gaza Strip, denied responsibility.

He nevertheless admitted that a large group of Hamas militiamen had been near the area during the attack. "We have instructed all our men to withdraw from the area," he said. "We will punish anyone who targets churches and public institutions."

Real Muslims would have no reason to attack peaceful Christians.

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[SATalha]

Hamas would not do sometíng like this. Come one people! There is a sick political game being played. Ever heard of the word smear? Anyway the top memberz of Hamas would not allow hamas memberz to commit such acts. I ask you be open minded and realise the bigger picture.

[Bittersteel]

It could be that.But there are more chances for the Hamas being responsible,as they are in control of Gaza now.true it could be a smear campaign too.but odds are against that.

[Ubaidah]

Hamas would not do sometíng like this.

Really? Are we talking about the same Hamas here? The same Hamas that has used men, woman & children as suicide bombers? Or are you making that statement tongue & cheek and I'm just not picking up on the sarcasm, because while I'm not saying that it's true as I do no know. It's definitely not out of the realm of possibilities.

[SATalha]

Really? Are we talking about the same Hamas here? The same Hamas that has used men, woman & children as suicide bombers? Or are you making that statement tongue & cheek and I'm just not picking up on the sarcasm, because while I'm not saying that it's true as I do no know. It's definitely not out of the realm of possibilities.

What iam saying is that Hamas recognise the Christian Palestinians as part of the strugle. Why would they do something like this? Hamas have Christians in their cabinet, so it goes against their aims. The order (if it was hamas) cant of come from the Hamas ranks. But Allah knows best.

[Keltoi]

I'm sure the leaders of Hamas would not associate themselves with such an act. The question would be if they have full control over the entire fold of Hamas. That seems unlikely due to the instability at this time.

[Trumble]

Forget this 'smear' nonsense and extract heads from sand, this clearly happened. But 'Hamas' as an organisation didn't do it.

I'm sure the leaders of Hamas would not associate themselves with such an act.

That's the point. I'm sure they wouldn't, either, but they don't have that degree of control. When tensions are high and there is conflict people get out of control under far more rigid and effective policing than there is in Gaza. A few nutters set out to do such a thing, which they may be justifying to themselves on religious grounds (that doesn't mean anybody else would) and far more just get wound up and swept along with the crowd and the emotion.

The only way to stop such events is to remove the circumstances in which they are likely to arise. Here, that means efficient, organised government with the means to use force (i.e guns) strictly controlled and not in the hands of assorted militias.

[Ubaidah]

What iam saying is that Hamas recognise the Christian Palestinians as part of the strugle. Why would they do something like this? Hamas have Christians in their cabinet, so it goes against their aims. The order (if it was hamas) cant of come from the Hamas ranks. But Allah knows best.

I'm sorry, I misunderstood. I agree with ^^ that.

[Skywalker]

I think Hamas are slowly starting to think bigger, and starting to consider the longterm consequences of their actions, unlike before. Securing Alan Johnston's freedom is a good indication of that. They want recognition from the int'l community, they are beginning to understand its importance, therefore it would be illogical to pull a stunt like this. It's not even Islamic.

[^..sTr!vEr..^]

Hamas would not do sometíng like this. Come one people! There is a sick political game being played. Ever heard of the word smear? Anyway the top memberz of Hamas would not allow hamas memberz to commit such acts. I ask you be open minded and realise the bigger picture.

Good!!

[SATalha]

Forget this 'smear' nonsense and extract heads from sand, this clearly happened. But 'Hamas' as an organisation didn't do it.



That's the point. I'm sure they wouldn't, either, but they don't have that degree of control. When tensions are high and there is conflict people get out of control under far more rigid and effective policing than there is in Gaza. A few nutters set out to do such a thing, which they may be justifying to themselves on religious grounds (that doesn't mean anybody else would) and far more just get wound up and swept along with the crowd and the emotion.

The only way to stop such events is to remove the circumstances in which they are likely to arise. Here, that means efficient, organised government with the means to use force (i.e guns) strictly controlled and not in the hands of assorted militias.

To be in control of Gaza? Hum how can this be done when you have people backstabing and not wanting Hamas to succeed. They dont have the support of the International community and the have Fatah to deal with. Not to mention living in a sick conditions created by Israel, so how can they do this?

[Trumble]

To be in control of Gaza? Hum how can this be done when you have people backstabing and not wanting Hamas to succeed. They dont have the support of the International support and the have Fatah to deal with. Not to mention living in a sick conditions created by Israel, so how can they do this?

International support, or the lack of it, and Fatah have little to do with whether Hamas can control their own supporters and militias.

[SATalha]

International support, or the lack of it, and Fatah have little to do with whether Hamas can control their own supporters and militias.

One thing i will say about Fatah is that they are not innocent in what they do. They have been known to stir trouble. Remember it is not clear yet who has done this. Anyway this is not the point, the main thing that needs to be highlighted is the fact that Christian Palestinians are PART of the struggle and should not be harmed in anyway.

[Intisar]

Subhanallah, why can't we live in peace!? :-\

[SATalha]

Peace is a complex issue for man. This is something iam sure other memberz will agree with?

[Encolpius]

Real Muslims would have no reason to attack peaceful Christians.

Aye. And no true Scotsman puts salt on his porridge.

[Skywalker]

Aye. And no true Scotsman puts salt on his porridge.

Please elaborate.

[Trumble]

Aye. And no true Scotsman puts salt on his porridge.

Don't you mean sugar? I thought salt was an essential part of the porridge experience, while the addition of sugar would have a Scot's sporran leaping off in disgust at its owner!

[SATalha]

Whats all this talk about the Scots? Anyway do explain what you mean. Are you trying to say that Muslims not hurting peacfull Christians is a false statement

[Encolpius]

Whats all this talk about the Scots? Anyway do explain what you mean. Are you trying to say that Muslims not hurting peacfull Christians is a false statement

No, it's a logical fallacy.

Explanation.

[Skywalker]

^ LoL@the true Scotsman term, that's a new one for me...

Aye, and no true Muslim Scotsman would hurt a peaceful Christian Scotsman...nor would he put sugar in his porridge :P

And that's the truth, laddy :)

[SATalha]

And they may take our lives!!!! BUT they cant take our freedom!!!!

This line suits the Palestinians....similarity

[Skywalker]

^ lol, hahaha

[islamirama]

Assalaamu 3alaikum wa rahmatullaah wa Barakaatuh,
This mass purging of Islamic Organizations within the U.S. should not go unanswered by Muslim populations if not by Muslim governments. If any church is restricted in any way in any Muslim state, the West will have an uproar!.

Western governments cannot define for Muslims who is terrorist and who is not and cannot decide for us which Islamic group the we can give to and which we cannot. Muslims do hard work and earn honest wages which they are entitled to spend as they see fit including donating to their favorites charities.

Hamas is not a terrorist organization by any measure and, in fact, it is filling the void left by the absence of a Palestinian State, providing social welfare to feed and care for needy Palestinians, running schools, orphanages and other vital services in the occupied land.

Muslims citizens have the right to give to Islamic Relief and Charity organizations just as Christian citizens give to Christian churches and Evangelical missions. Furthermore, Islamic Relief organizations have an obligation and the right to send aid to suffering and needy Muslims overseas just as the multitude of Christian churches and missionary organizations fund thousands of Christianizing campaigns in Africa, Asia and even in the Muslim World.

Since the majority of Islamic Relief Organizations have been closed down or curtailed here in the U.S., Muslim populations must respond with equal force to purge any Christian mission in Muslim states and Muslim governments must also monitor Christian churches operating in their land to make sure they do not fund Christian terrorist activities or Christianizing missions in the Muslim World.



from Bahjat

[Skywalker]

^ This is true. I posted an article on this in the world affairs section but it didn't get posted...yet. Idunno what's taking so long. Anyways, it's true that the US is preventing Islamic relief organizations from operating under the pretense that they are helping what they label as a "terrorist" organization. Their double standards are getting boring, especially given the fact that Fatah itself in not innocent of some of the same actions that led to Hamas being called terrorists.

[guyabano]

Yep, sure, HAMAS is a humanitory organisation, riiiiight ? Or give me another reason, why this HAMAS member is dragging this kid so brutally?

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Media Tags are no longer supported

[Skywalker]

With regards to ^

a) there is no indication that these are Hamas militants
b) you don't know what's going on in the first clip
c) or the second one, but it seems that Israel is attacking Palestinian women :S
d) Hamas are not a humanitarian organization
e) are the videos supposed to have sound? ...cuz I got no sound

[guyabano]

With regards to ^

a) there is no indication that these are Hamas militants
b) you don't know what's going on in the first clip
c) or the second one, but it seems that Israel is attacking Palestinian women :S
d) Hamas are not a humanitarian organization
e) are the videos supposed to have sound? ...cuz I got no sound

to c. : There were just some Hamas Gunmen hidden in the crowd of protesting women to shoot at israeli soldiers. They use the women to protect themselves.
I call that human shield !

to d. : My fault, I mistyped, it should mean 'HAMAS Humanitarianism'

to e. : The first has no sound, but the second has !

[SATalha]

There is no doubt that within Hamas there people with wrong ideas. However this is a minute amount. You see when you have right minded people as your head, your body tends to work in a right minded way. Sure Hamas have done things, terrible things, but this is nothing compared to the terrible things the Israeli army hav done.

[Skywalker]

to c. : There were just some Hamas Gunmen hidden in the crowd of protesting women to shoot at israeli soldiers. They use the women to protect themselves.
I call that human shield !

It looked to me like the women were out protesting out of their own will. It didn't look like anybody was forcing them to go out. I didn't see anybody hiding among them though.

to d. : My fault, I mistyped, it should mean 'HAMAS Humanitarianism'

Gotcha. Nevertheless, point 'a' still stands.

to e. : The first has no sound, but the second has !

Nooooo! Then there's smth wrong with my pc....grrrrrrr

There is no doubt that within Hamas there people with wrong ideas. However this is a minute amount. You see when you have right minded people as your head, your body tends to work in a right minded way. Sure Hamas have done things, terrible things, but this is nothing compared to the terrible things the Israeli army hav done.

I think it's also worth mentioning that there are people in the US army who have raped Iraqi civilians, tortured, humiliated, and massacred little children...but does that mean that the US army in general is evil like those soldiers?

I think Hamas have a bigger problem controlling their ranks than they would care to admit. This does not however mean that any of them would be stupid enough to do what this thread claims they did.

[guyabano]

I think it's also worth mentioning that there are people in the US army who have raped Iraqi civilians, tortured, humiliated, and massacred little children...but does that mean that the US army in general is evil like those soldiers?

I think Hamas have a bigger problem controlling their ranks than they would care to admit. This does not however mean that any of them would be stupid enough to do what this thread claims they did.

Bravo. That was the point what I wanted to be understood. There is in every army a few troublemakers but they do not represent the whole army globally seen. Some people here on the forum tend to use a glimpse of a moment to expose a whole nation as evildoers.
I may not be friend of George Bush's politics, but US Forces certainly do no harm in Iraq. Small glitches are always fast exposed by the news agencies as a big mediashows

[Skywalker]

I think that it's well-known that there are some very good and decent people in the US army. Some have even gone to the extent of publically opposing the political decisions made by their leaders, like that one Hawaiian officer a few months back. There are also those who exposed the atrocities being done at Abu Ghraib.

As for whether the actions of a few evil ones reflecting on the rest of the nation, that lies in the nation's reaction to the events. Do they condemn the actions and hold the people responsible, or do they let it go and commend them?

In the case of this thread, this point is irrelevant due to the lack of evidence that the attacks that took place had anything to do with Hamas. In fact, Hamas have clearly stated that this was not done by then.

[Darkseid]

Why don't they just leave and go to Egypt? There is certainly a sizable christian population in Egypt. They should be safe there.

[Skywalker]

Here are some interesting new developments...

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070730/...stinians_hamas

I think this should be of some significance...

• Stop Six. A Roman Catholic church.

A Hamas minder tried to stop a reporter from asking Father Manuel Musallam, Gaza's only Catholic priest, about who was behind the ransacking of a Catholic convent and nearby school during June's Hamas-Fatah fighting. Musallam answered anyway, saying Haniyeh had offered his support in finding the perpetrators. "We suffer with them, but we haven't suffered from them," the priest said of Hamas and Gaza's other Muslim inhabitants. Still, a number of Gaza's 3,000 Christians have privately expressed concern about Hamas' intentions. (notice they don't say their actions)

[wilberhum]

Here are some interesting new developments...

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070730/...stinians_hamas

I think this should be of some significance...

• Stop Six. A Roman Catholic church.

A Hamas minder tried to stop a reporter from asking Father Manuel Musallam, Gaza's only Catholic priest, about who was behind the ransacking of a Catholic convent and nearby school during June's Hamas-Fatah fighting. Musallam answered anyway, saying Haniyeh had offered his support in finding the perpetrators. "We suffer with them, but we haven't suffered from them," the priest said of Hamas and Gaza's other Muslim inhabitants. Still, a number of Gaza's 3,000 Christians have privately expressed concern about Hamas' intentions. (notice they don't say their actions)

It is an interesting read. I recomend it for a full picture. I did pick up on a comment in the article.

The tour was colorful and revealing — a glimpse into how the Islamic militants see themselves and want to be seen.

If you didn't pick up on "Hamas minder", :mmokay: I did.
A minder is there to ensure that you don't see anything or anything they don't want you to see. :?
Anyone who would give negative information in front of a "minder" would be putting themselves at serious risk.
:scared:

[islamirama]

May Allah give HAMAS more victories alhamdulillah they now control Gaza.They are more worth than Fatah and that traitor Mahmud Abbas.Mashallah they are very good and strong too. The Jews are so scared now they have ran out of depression pills and many people have stopped immigrating to " Isreal "No such thing as Isreal its a zionist state. Chosen people:phew Yeah right. They were until they started massacring their prophets and changed Allah's words and laws in the torah and made what was halal haram and vice versa.Good job HAMAS:thumbs_up

Ameen thumma ameen!