How can verify ??

[asadxyz]

:sl:
Many Hadiths are posted here.
We know for authenticity of Hadiths ,Muhaddithins have put down criteria regarding their links ,narrators ,and text. Because a good number of narrations might be fabricated ,some weak ,others are Marfooh (correct) and Sahih.
Should we accept whatever is posted here as "authenticated Hadith"?? How can we verify that it is really upto the mark of criteria put down by Muhaddithins?

[boriqee]

they say that if it is quoted from either bukhari or muslim, then the job of verifying it is already done for you.If it is found in one of the two, the burden of checking it has already been done and established.

if it is quoted in other works, then tahqiq should be done on it, checking and verifying usually comes within the footnotes of a scholar.


so if it is form the two shaykhs, then your good, if not, then the watchful eye is kept on it UNLESS its ruling was brought with it from one or more of the reliable Imaams on it
asalamu alaikum

[asadxyz]

they say that if it is quoted from either bukhari or muslim, then the job of verifying it is already done for you.If it is found in one of the two, the burden of checking it has already been done and established.

if it is quoted in other works, then tahqiq should be done on it, checking and verifying usually comes within the footnotes of a scholar.


so if it is form the two shaykhs, then your good, if not, then the watchful eye is kept on it UNLESS its ruling was brought with it from one or more of the reliable Imaams on it
asalamu alaikum

:sl:
I personally believe whatever the Holy Prophet :arabic5: said is from Almighty Allah (as per Quranic teaching) and that is to be followed as the Quran.
As per your statement I deduce that it means whatever is quoted in Bukhari and Muslim is as authenticated as the Quran .Am I right to understand ?? Or is there some difference ?

[boriqee]

but quraan receives no "mustalah' as the hadeeth does. So while it is authentic it is always safe to keep within the statement of our scholars. They say that bukharee is the MOST AUTHENTIC BOOK AFTER THE BOOK OF ALLAH

asalmau alaikum

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[asadxyz]

but quraan receives no "mustalah' as the hadeeth does. So while it is authentic it is always safe to keep within the statement of our scholars. They say that bukharee is the MOST AUTHENTIC BOOK AFTER THE BOOK OF ALLAH

asalmau alaikum

:sl:
Thanks for reply;
what do you mean by "mustalah" ??

[Umar001]

If someone here quotes from Bukhari or Muslim then I'd double check anyway, since the people here are unknown to you. If they were in a chain they would make it weak, so ask them for the reference if there is not exact reference then becareful. But if it is from a reliable person, scholar or something then you wouldnt need to check 'em.

That's my personal method.

[asadxyz]

If someone here quotes from Bukhari or Muslim then I'd double check anyway, since the people here are unknown to you. If they were in a chain they would make it weak, so ask them for the reference if there is not exact reference then becareful. But if it is from a reliable person, scholar or something then you wouldnt need to check 'em.

That's my personal method.

:sl:
The question is not about some Hadith.The question is the status of Sahih Bukhari.
Is this equivalent to Quran in status,if so why ?
Is this not equivalent to Quran in status if so why ?
:w:

[boriqee]

:sl:
The question is not about some Hadith.The question is the status of Sahih Bukhari.
Is this equivalent to Quran in status,if so why ?
Is this not equivalent to Quran in status if so why ?
:w:

what i meant by mustalah is that in hadeeth, there is an entire science regarding the veracity of it, the quraan has no mustalah with regards to its veracity.

and Bukharee is not equal to the quraan in blessedness

the quran and sunnah in general are even and theyare different.

the way that the quran is betetr than the sunnah that is containd in the hadeeth is that people are rewarded by the mere reciting of the quraan, i.e. one letter at a time. wheras hadeeth, the recitation of it does not rasie ones level in jannah as the quraan does. so in praiseworthyniess and blessing, the quran is superior.

IN LEGAL matters, then the quran and hadeeths (which contains sunnah) are the same. whatever the messenger says is as if Allah says it.

so bukharee is not equal with the quraan except that he schoalrs say

"it is the most authenttic book after the book of Allah"

this is the safest and the best of speech regarding his saheeh, it neither leans towards extremism in any direction. it is balanced

[asadxyz]

what i meant by mustalah is that in hadeeth, there is an entire science regarding the veracity of it, the quraan has no mustalah with regards to its veracity.

and Bukharee is not equal to the quraan in blessedness

the quran and sunnah in general are even and theyare different.

the way that the quran is betetr than the sunnah that is containd in the hadeeth is that people are rewarded by the mere reciting of the quraan, i.e. one letter at a time. wheras hadeeth, the recitation of it does not rasie ones level in jannah as the quraan does. so in praiseworthyniess and blessing, the quran is superior.

IN LEGAL matters, then the quran and hadeeths (which contains sunnah) are the same. whatever the messenger says is as if Allah says it.

so bukharee is not equal with the quraan except that he schoalrs say

"it is the most authenttic book after the book of Allah"

this is the safest and the best of speech regarding his saheeh, it neither leans towards extremism in any direction. it is balanced

:sl:
Thanks a lot.I have not understood what is "mustalah"?.Please explain in simple words.
you said :

and Bukharee is not equal to the quraan in blessedness

Why not ?
Are these narrations not ما انزل الله as the Quranic verses are ?
Are these narrations not as authenticated as those of the Holy Quran ?

Why do you and scholars put difference between these two even the slight one ?
Reason for making this difference is confusing me .Please explain it.Thanks in advance .

[boriqee]

:sl:
Thanks a lot.I have not understood what is "mustalah"?.Please explain in simple words.
you said :


Why not ?
Are these narrations not ما انزل الله as the Quranic verses are ?
Are these narrations not as authenticated as those of the Holy Quran ?

Why do you and scholars put difference between these two even the slight one ?
Reason for making this difference is confusing me .Please explain it.Thanks in advance .

because liars in our history were able to lie about the sunnah, thus the science of hadeeth formed, but thesek liars were unable to do so with the quraan.

in terms of legality, they are the same, but in terms of
1.reward, the quraan is greater and
2. in terms of authenticity, the quraan is so authentic there is no need for a mustalah in the quraan.

asalamu alaikum

[asadxyz]

because liars in our history were able to lie about the sunnah, thus the science of hadeeth formed, but thesek liars were unable to do so with the quraan.

in terms of legality, they are the same, but in terms of
1.reward, the quraan is greater and
2. in terms of authenticity, the quraan is so authentic there is no need for a mustalah in the quraan.

asalamu alaikum

:sl:
Honestly ,I am still unable to understand "Mustalah".Is this what is called as Standardization of Hadith or something Else.?What is the exact definition of Mustalah?
When a narration is proved 100% (from every standard or test) that it is saying of the Holy Prophet then I find no reason that its authenticity is not equal to Quran .Why do you make a difference ?
Is Whole of Bukhari not authentic ??
In other word the following MCQ will clear it

1. Quran and Bukhari are equally authentic
2. Quran is more authenticated than Bukhari

Which will you choose ?

[ilm.seeker]

here is the english meaning of mustlah
Mustalah al-Hadith (Classification of Hadith)

Mustalah books speak of a number of classes of hadith in accordance with their status. The following broad classifications can be made, each of which is explained in the later sections:

According to the reference to a particular authority, e.g. the Prophet (may Allah bless him and grant him peace), a Companion, or a Successor; such ahadith are called marfu' (elevated), mauquf (stopped) and maqtu' (severed) respectively .
According to the links in the isnad, i.e. whether the chain of reporters is interrupted or uninterrupted, e.g. musnad (supported), muttasil (continuous), munqati' (broken), mu'allaq (hanging), mu'dal (perplexing) and mursal (hurried).
According to the number of reporters involved in each stage of the isnad, e.g. mutawatir (consecutive) and ahad (isolated), the latter being divided into gharib (scarce, strange), 'aziz (rare, strong), and mashhur (famous).
IslamicAwakening.Com: - Mustalah al-Hadith (Classification of Hadith)

[Umar001]

When a narration is proved 100% (from every standard or test) that it is saying of the Holy Prophet then I find no reason that its authenticity is not equal to Quran

IN LEGAL matters, then the quran and hadeeths (which contains sunnah) are the same. whatever the messenger says is as if Allah says it.

The brother is agreeing, in legal matters the Qur'an and Authentic Ahadith are the same. The proofs are many for this. As for in blessing, then I have yet to see a book of scholars show a hadith or ayah that says you recieve blessing for just reading hadith. This is what the difference is.

[asadxyz]

The brother is agreeing, in legal matters the Qur'an and Authentic Ahadith are the same. The proofs are many for this. As for in blessing, then I have yet to see a book of scholars show a hadith or ayah that says you recieve blessing for just reading hadith. This is what the difference is.

:sl:
Thanks for reply.Then three vital questions
So in legal matters Bukhari has same status as the Holy Quran is ?
If both are equal ,then what if the there is contradiction between Bukhari's narrations and the Holy Quran ?
Why are these equal only in legal matters ,why not in Eeman and Aqida ?
:w:

[boriqee]

:sl:
Thanks for reply.Then three vital questions
So in legal matters Bukhari has same status as the Holy Quran is ?
If both are equal ,then what if the there is contradiction between Bukhari's narrations and the Holy Quran ?
Why are these equal only in legal matters ,why not in Eeman and Aqida ?
:w:

akhee

mustalah simplicially means "science'.

so when i is said mustalah al-hadeeth it means sciences of hadeeth

2. legal matters meaning both the recommendations of shariah i.e. islamic law and in eman and aqidah, all of that is included as legal. That is because whatever the messenger says is as if Allah says.

In terms of collections of hadeeth, like bukharee, then the uraan is by default more authentic, even though bukharee is authentic because in the realm of authenticity, there arre different levels.

the quraan itself is beyond mutawattir. mutawattir means narrated by a bunch of people, more then several accounts. But he quraan is narrated by thousands, so by reason and logic, it is by default more reliable. But as for bukahree then if a hadeeth contradicted the quraan, then the quraan is taken precedence, but I assure you there is no hadeeth that contradicts the quraan particualrly in the bukharee or muslim. as for other collections of hadeeth, there may be some narrations that go against the quraan, but it is highly unlikely and the only ones who are able and fit to determine what is or against the quraan are the scholars of this religion.

asalamu alaikum

[boriqee]

and lastly but not leastly

the quraan is the actual; literal kalaam (speech) of Allah, it is not created.

while the quraan and the sunnah is "wahi" (revelation)

the wahi of the quraan is actyual spoken kalaam from Allah Himself where as the message contained in the hadeeth is the mere inspiration of Allah to Muhammad salallahu alaihi wa sallam

even within the framework of the 'sunnah" embodied in the hadeeth, even the muhaidtheen have differentiated that which was "literally spoken by the prophet" as opposed to something that was reported about an action of his, or something he allowed someone to do. The actual literall speech of the prophet would take precedence over an act that was reported about him.

Likewise in terms of the dimension of wahi (revelation) a revelation that Allah literally spoke would take a natural precedence over that which He inspired a messenger to say or do despite both being mandated to follow and both being a hujjah against the creation. That is why the hufaadh 9 the preservers of hadeeth) in this religion even made a diferenctiation between hadeeth and hadeeth qudsi (a hadeeth whos beginning narrator is Allah) because if the isnaad of the qudsi is saheeh and the isnaad of a hadeeth to the prophet is saheeh, while both are authentic and both are the same in legal status, it ios aways understood that everything comes from the primal source, Allah.

so to put this test as a reality, ask any muslim, be he rithous or the most corrupt drunkard in a brothel who said "Alif Laam Meem" that "muslim" would say "ALLAH'

ask any muslim who said "actions are but by intentions" they will not say Allah but they will say Umar narrated that based on what He heard the prophet saying.

while both is in absolute terms the utter truth, there must be a distinction because our community, the jama'ah are the most precise of people in this world when it comes to source reference. The past nations failed, they mixed the words of Allah with the words of the prophets and the words of men and the words of evil ones and at the same time changing its meaning. Thus the bible came to be more relevent as a distorted history book than an actual revelation.

asalamu alaikum

[asadxyz]

akhee


but I assure you there is no hadeeth that contradicts the quraan particualrly in the bukharee or muslim. as for other collections of hadeeth, there may be some narrations that go against the quraan, but it is highly unlikely and the only ones who are able and fit to determine what is or against the quraan are the scholars of this religion.

asalamu alaikum

:sl:
Thanks for reply :

Bukhari says;
Funerals (Al-Janaa'iz)
Bukhari :: Book 2 :: Volume 23 :: Hadith 377
Narrated Abu Burda:
That his father said, "When Umar was stabbed, Suhaib started crying: O my brother! 'Umar said, 'Don't you know that the Prophet said: The deceased is tortured for the weeping of the living'?"


But Quran says:

وَلاَ تَكْسِبُ كُلُّ نَفْسٍ إِلاَّ عَلَيْهَا وَلاَ تَزِرُ وَازِرَةٌ وِزْرَ أُخْرَى
Everyone will bear the consequence of what he does, and no one shall bear the burden of another 6:164

How will you correlate these two statements ??
:w:

[boriqee]

the correlation is suitably explained by scholars, not me

if i am able to i will try to look into it

asalmu alaikum

[asadxyz]

the correlation is suitably explained by scholars, not me

if i am able to i will try to look into it

asalmu alaikum

:sl:
Surely ,I will be waiting for it.Hopefully I will get some information from you in a week or so .
Because I am really confused.It was just a sample ,there are some others also.
:w:

[ilm.seeker]

the lst part of the below fatwa from shaik Fawzan may answer your question.
source for the below
It is well known that wailing is one of the gravest sins. The Prophet (peace be upon him) cursed the wailing woman and the listener to her, as he said:

If the wailing woman does not repent before her death, she will be resurrected on the Day of Judgement with a garment of tar and an armour of mange.

We ask Allah for safety in this world as well as the Hereafter. I advise my Muslim brothers to abandon such innovations in religion. This is better for them as well as the dead, as the Prophet (peace be upon him) said:

I have been told that the dead is tortured because his family weep and wail him.

"tortured" here means that the dead feels pain because of such weeping and wailing. He is not to be punished for others' act as Allah said:

That no burdened person (with sins) shall bear the burden (sins) of another

(6:164) Torture is not necessarily a punishment as the Prophet (peace be upon him) said:

Travelling is a piece of torture.

Pain and worries are even considered as torture, as some people may say: "tortured by painful emotions". In conclusion, I advise my Muslim brothers to avoid such bad habits which cause them to be farther from Allah and lead to the torture of their dead.

[asadxyz]

:sl:
First of all I thank you for reply:
There are two ways to approach a conclusion:
1:First Method :
We gather the information ,arguments and then deduce the conclusion
2:Second Method
We have already some idea or conclusion in our mind fixed and then start bringing arguments for it.No matter how illogical these are.
Unfortunately the person who tried to explain it , adopted the second method.

Torture is not necessarily a punishment

The exact wording in Arabic is as follows
َقَدْ قَالَ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ إِنَّ الْمَيِّتَ يُعَذَّبُ بِبَعْضِ بُكَاءِ أَهْلِهِ عَلَيْهِ
The English translation is as follows :

The Holy prophet :arabic5: said that The deceased is tortured for the weeping of the living'?"
This verb is used in Passive voice in actual text and in English translation.This form of voice indicates that the object is being acted upon and doer is someone else.

This person wants to say معاذالله the Holy Prophet :arabic5: could not convey His message in a clear and unambiguous way and used grammatically wrong language.
Remember prophets are always افصح البيان
If "torture " is not punishment then please define this "enjoyable " and "pleasant" type which this word is showing.

:w: