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atha
07-02-2007, 01:00 AM
Assalam-u-alaikum

I need the opinion of educated muslims here.

I accidently came across an article by some Imam Khaleel Mohammad . I am not going to post the link here b/c it represents islam wrongly. But will quote this guy here.

"The verse that is traditionally used by imams to prohibit an inter-religious marriage is Qur'an 5:5, which states: 'This day, all innately good things are lawful for you... Lawful to you are the chaste women from among those who have been given the Book before you...' Traditional imams contend that since women are mentioned, and men are not, then it must be understood that the marriage of Muslim women with non-Muslim men is forbidden.

This, however, is problematic. For the Qur'an is addressed, because of the custom of the time, to men. It is for this reason that the Qur'an says, for example, "And when you divorce your wives..." or "During the nights of fasting [Ramadan] you may have sex with your wives..." What do I mean by the custom of the time? In the tribal context, the woman, once married, accepted the husband as master. He, in turn, accepted the religion of his tribal chief.

Given that reality, a whole host of issues arose for Muslim scholars -- issues that made them oppose inter-religious marriages for women. One issue was, whereas Muslims honor the non-Muslim prophets, followers of the other two monotheistic religions do not honor Muhammad, and that would put the Muslim woman in the terrible position of having her prophet disrespected. Another issue was that most Christians see Jesus as God, and for a Muslim to attribute divinity to a human in unthinkable. Then, too, there was the problem of the children from such a marriage, who would presumably be brought up in the religion of the male spouseTo be sure, most Muslims would argue that the Qur'an is true for all time and all places. If we go by that logic, then we must acknowledge that the Qur'an is still sympathetic to your dream of marrying a Christian man. Even though he is a Christian, the Qur'an does not hold that against him. For while mentioning that there are Christians who take Jesus as God, Islam's main document calls this 'kufr' (disbelief/ingratitude) rather than 'shirk' (polytheism). It's a significant distinction because, in another verse, the Qur'an also states that Christians who do good deeds have the right to enter heaven. Christian creedal beliefs are the same for both male and female followers of Christianity, so how can the Qur'an allow marriage to the Christian woman but not to the Christian man?The evidence indicates that the main hang-up is the problem I emphasized above -- that the religion of the male spouse becomes dominant (as also evidenced in the Book of Ruth in the Hebrew Bible). In our day, since Qur'anic Islam (as opposed to the Islam of the male jurists) must acknowledge the radical notion that women are equals of men, that women have legal rights, and that those rights include placing conditions on the marriage (what you and I would term a 'pre-nuptial agreement'), then an inter-faith marriage can take place on condition that neither spouse will be forcibly converted to the other's religion. As long as that condition is respected, you and she have my blessing.

On the question of children, certainly there will be some religious confusion. But as a Muslim scholar, I can tell you that the Qur'an advocates the use of the heart and mind in forming opinions. If both parents are faithful to their interpretations of the Creator's will, then the children will make informed decisions when they come of age.
Now, I never read this version of this ayah. Also, I have researched this Imam and he belongs to the freemuslims.org organization which is not quite islamic. they are even against the islamic sharia. So I know I can't believe what this guy says. But, let's say a non-muslim comes up to me and gives me this article and asks me to negate it. How will I do so?

1-How do I negate the notion that this Ayah applies equally to men and women as this Imam suggested?

2-How do I negate the notion that having a prenuptial agreement that says the muslim woman's beliefs will be fully respected, would make the marriage of the muslim woman to a Jew/Christian man halal?

3-Is there any hadith specifically mentioning that its not allowed for the muslim women to be married to the Christian/Jew men?

Now, if someone says that she might be forced to change her beliefs and such, then how can be one sure that a muslim man will not force his Christian/Jew wife to change her belief. In fact, i saw some videos on youtube that showed that certain middle east muslim men did forcefully had their wives converting to islam. i think this was terribly wrong. So, now the question arises, why do we have this ruling that allows muslim men to marry Christian/Jew women, which obviously creates a loop for victimization of non-muslim women by corrupt muslim men? I am not saying that a good muslim man would force his wife, i am only saying bad muslim men who don't practise islam properly. Perhaps we are only looking at some part of this ruling and not all of it. Perhaps being a fully practising muslim is a prerequisite for this. What do you think?

Now, I already discussed with a muslim brother I know. Alhamdulillah, he gave me some Quranic verses.

He told me this Quranic verse.

"if a woman accepts Islam, and her husband doesn't, than she is not to be returned to him. then if you ascertain that they are true believers send them not back to the disbelievers. They are not lawful (wives) for the disbelievers nor are the disbelievers lawful (husbands) for them” [al-Mumtahanah 60:10]

But it says here "believers". Are Christians/Jews considered believers or non-believers? What is the exact arabic word here for which the translation of a believer is used? Would someone explain the context of this verse to me.

I would so appreciate a really good response based on Quran and Sunnah. Make sure to be very detailed with regards to Arabic terminology and its meaning inshaAllah.

Kind Regards

Assalam-u-alaikum
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doorster
07-02-2007, 03:37 AM
A Muslim man can marry women of Ah al-kitaab on condition that he won't force her to become Muslim.

A Muslim woman cannot marry a man from Ahl al-kitaab because they consider us infidels and are not allowed to marry our women without first converting them to their religion. They will not accept us unless we are like them.

But today what passes as Christian is actually a Trinitarian pagan so don't confuse them with Unitarian non-pig eating Christians of the past.

wasalam alaikum

checkout my dad's page for some ayaat about pagans and links to Shaykh Estes site to ask questions like this
http://www.islamicboard.com/userpage-user10595.html
Reply

E'jaazi
07-02-2007, 04:01 AM
A Christian woman is saying: Why is it not permissible for a Muslim woman to marry a kitaabi man when the opposite is permitted?


Question:

My Christian wife is asking: Why is it not permissible for a Muslim woman to marry someone from among the people of the Book – Christians and Jews – whilst that is permitted to Muslim men?.

Answer:

Praise be to Allaah.

One of the names of Allaah in which we believe – and we do not think that anyone who believes that he has a Lord will doubt that – is al-Hakeem (the All-Wise). In this manner the noble angels praised Him, because they understood His wisdom in His command to them to prostrate to Adam:

“They (angels) said: ‘Glory is to You, we have no knowledge except what you have taught us. Verily, it is You, the All-Knower, the All-Wise’”

[al-Baqarah 2:32]

He has also testified to this, as have His angels and the people of knowledge:

“Allaah bears witness that Laa ilaaha illa Huwa (none has the right to be worshipped but He), and the angels, and those having knowledge (also give this witness); (He always) maintains His creation in justice. Laa ilaaha illa Huwa (none has the right to be worshipped but He), the All‑Mighty, the All-Wise”

[Aal ‘Imraan 3:18]

Thus He has established proof against His creation, as He says (interpretation of the meaning):

“Say: ‘With Allaah is the perfect proof and argument, (i.e. the Oneness of Allaah, the sending of His Messengers and His Holy Books, to mankind); had He so willed, He would indeed have guided you all’”

[al-An’aam 6:149]

Thus it is known that the All-Wise does not do anything in vain, and He does not do anything that is inappropriate. He does not issue any command but that which is better for His creation than any other, as Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“Allaah has sent down the Best Statement, a Book (this Qur’aan), its parts resembling each other (in goodness and truth) (and) oft‑repeated. The skins of those who fear their Lord shiver from it (when they recite it or hear it). Then their skin and their heart soften to the remembrance of Allaah. That is the Guidance of Allaah. He guides therewith whom He wills; and whomever Allaah sends astray, for him there is no guide”

[al-Zumar 39:23]

Just as this is implied by His being All-Wise, it is also implied by His being the only Creator. The one who makes a thing knows best what is suited for it, so how about the All-Knowing Creator?

“Should not He Who has created know? And He is the Most Kind and Courteous (to His slaves), All‑Aware (of everything)”

[al-Mulk 67:14]

With regard to the wisdom behind the matter that you are asking about, perhaps you know that Islam is the last religion that was revealed from Allaah, hence it abrogates all other religions, as Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“It is He Who has sent His Messenger (Muhammad) with guidance and the religion of truth (Islam), to make it superior over all religions even though the Mushrikoon (polytheists, pagans, idolaters, disbelievers in the Oneness of Allaah) hate (it)”

[al-Tawbah 9:33]

“And never will Allaah grant to the disbelievers a way (to triumph) over the believers”

[al-Nisa’ 4:141]

The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said; “Islam prevails and is not prevailed over.” Narrated by al-Daaraqutni and others; classed as hasan by al-Albaani in Saheeh al-Jaami’ (2778).

It is well known that the husband is in charge of his wife (qawaamah) and his status within the family is higher than that of his wife. Perhaps this higher position may make him force his wife to leave her religion and follow his, or it may influence her to do that, and this is something that Islam cannot accept.

The higher status held by the husband may also cause the children of this woman to follow their father’s religion, which is a great error, if these offspring grow up and do not follow the final religion of Allaah.

This is the important reason which Allaah mentioned when He forbade Muslim women to marry non-Muslim men. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“And give not (your daughters) in marriage to Al‑Mushrikoon till they believe (in Allaah Alone) and verily, a believing slave is better than a (free) Mushrik (idolater), even though he pleases you. Those (Al-Mushrikoon) invite you to the Fire, but Allaah invites (you) to Paradise and forgiveness by His Leave, and makes His Ayaat (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc.) clear to mankind that they may remember”
[al-Baqarah 2:221]

Moreover, if a kitaabi woman (a Jewish or Christian woman) marries a Muslim man, she is marrying someone who believes in her Prophet and all the Prophets of Allaah, because he cannot be a Muslim otherwise, and it is not permissible for him to differentiate between them. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“The Messenger (Muhammad) believes in what has been sent down to him from his Lord, and (so do) the believers. Each one believes in Allaah, His Angels, His Books, and His Messengers. (They say,) ‘We make no distinction between one another of His Messengers’”

[al-Baqarah 2:285]

Whereas the kitaabi – whether Jewish or Christian – does not believe in Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) or that he is the Seal of the Prophets, so how can the two matters be equal, and how can Muslim women marry men who do not believe in their Prophet?

But we should point out here that although it is permissible for a Muslim man to marry a kitaabi woman, because of the interests that it is hoped may be served by that, and to avoid burdening people with too many restrictions, it is blameworthy, as Imam Maalik (may Allaah have mercy on him) said. (Tafseer al-Qurtubi, 3/67).

This permission serves as a hint to the people of the Book, so that they might realize that Islam has made exceptions for the people of the Book in some rulings that it has not made for other kuffaar. Allaah has permitted us to eat meat slaughtered by the people of the Book, and He has permitted us to marry their women out of respect for the origin of their religions which were based on Tawheed, and out of respect for the Messengers of those religions in whom we are commanded to believe and respect, and to demonstrate the difference between the attitude of the followers of Judaism and Christianity towards our Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) and the attitude of our religion towards their Prophets.

Finally, this ruling should not be strange for other religions, and it is not something odd that is applied by Islam alone. Why should some of those who attack our religion find it strange that Islam forbids our women to marry non-Muslim men, when they do not marry one another even though they are followers of one religion? A Catholic cannot marry a Protestant woman and if he does so he is punished by the church, and vice versa.

According to the canon of the Egyptian Orthodox Coptic Church published in 1938 CE, article 6 states that “difference in religion is an impediment to marriage.”

And Allaah knows best.

Islam Q&A
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doorster
07-02-2007, 04:05 AM
I would think "give not your sons to pig-eating triune worshipping al-muhrikun either"
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atha
07-02-2007, 04:15 AM
Assalam-u-alaikum

Jazakallah Khair for the answers.

Everyone, what do you think of doorster's answer. Personally, I found it simpler and easier to accept compared to the third post.

Once again, thanks for the replies.

Kind Regards
Assalam-u-alaikum
Reply

Muslim Woman
07-02-2007, 04:44 AM
:sl:

Originally Posted by atha
-Is there any hadith specifically mentioning that its not allowed for the muslim women to be married to the Christian/Jew men?


is there any hadith that described of any Muslim woman's marriage with non-Muslim ? I don't think so.

I read a hadith where a non-Muslim sis accepted Islam but husband denied to become a Muslim. Then he was given some time to accept Islam or later marriage must be dissolved.

So , it's a clear proof that Muslim women can't marry non-Muslims.


Condition of interfaith marriage is kids will be raised as Muslims. So , if kids bear non-Muslim identity from dad & raised in a non-Muslim atmosphere where no one respects the Last Prophet (p) , surely it would be a disaster for their life hereafter.

there is no compulsion in Islam.So , if any Muslim husbands forces non-Muslim wife , he is doing the wrong thing. But , it's unbelievable that western women are embracing Islam under pressure.


I read some fatwa that it's not encouraged for Muslim men to marry non-Muslim women in the west. Because , it's very hard to raise kids in the west as Muslims if mom is a Jew or Christian.


Lastly & most importantly , Allah did not mention it in holy Quran that Muslim women can marry non-Muslim men. So , we must not take any risk of disobeying Him.
Reply

atha
07-02-2007, 03:45 PM
Originally Posted by Muslim Woman
:sl:

is there any hadith that described of any Muslim woman's marriage with non-Muslim ? I don't think so.

I read a hadith where a non-Muslim sis accepted Islam but husband denied to become a Muslim. Then he was given some time to accept Islam or later marriage must be dissolved.

So , it's a clear proof that Muslim women can't marry non-Muslims.


Condition of interfaith marriage is kids will be raised as Muslims. So , if kids bear non-Muslim identity from dad & raised in a non-Muslim atmosphere where no one respects the Last Prophet (p) , surely it would be a disaster for their life hereafter.

there is no compulsion in Islam.So , if any Muslim husbands forces non-Muslim wife , he is doing the wrong thing. But , it's unbelievable that western women are embracing Islam under pressure.


I read some fatwa that it's not encouraged for Muslim men to marry non-Muslim women in the west. Because , it's very hard to raise kids in the west as Muslims if mom is a Jew or Christian.


Lastly & most importantly , Allah did not mention it in holy Quran that Muslim women can marry non-Muslim men. So , we must not take any risk of disobeying Him.
Ok, that's very helpful. A mention to the ahadith. Jazakallah khair.

But you say in the Holy quran its not mentioned, well, which verse are you talking about? See, this Imam (and I not quite happy about this conclusions) said that the verse pertaining to only men allowed to marry Christian/Jew women applies to the women as well b/c the quran in general addresses the men but the verses apply to both the gender. But when we bring in the ahadith, we can figure out that this verse actually applied to the men only and not the women. Hmm! makes sense, inshaAllah.

But as "doorster" pointed above, the marriage of muslim men to Christian women of nowadays won't be considered valid b/c today's Christians are not the "non-pig eating Unitarian Christians" but "pig eating Trinitarian Pagan kind Christians". No offence to the Christians.

So, Isn't it time enough for the Imams to bring this to the kind attention of the muslim men?

Also, what about the Jews of today. Are they the same as the Jews of the time of prophet Mohammad or not?

Kind Regards
Assalam-u-Alaikum
Reply

Abdul Fattah
07-02-2007, 03:59 PM
Alternativly, one could just quote a tefsir of the mentioned verse (5:5). Here's Ibn Kathir's:

The Permission to Marry Chaste Women From the People of the Scriptures

Allah said,

[وَالْمُحْصَنَـتُ مِنَ الْمُؤْمِنَـتِ]

((Lawful to you in marriage) are chaste women from the believers) The Ayah states: you are allowed to marry free, chaste believing women. This Ayah is talking about women who do not commit fornication, as evident by the word `chaste'. Allah said in another Ayah,

[مُحْصَنَـت غَيْرَ مُسَـفِحَـتٍ وَلاَ مُتَّخِذَاتِ أَخْدَانٍ]

(Desiring chastity not committing illegal sexual intercourse, nor taking them as boyfriends (lovers).) [4:25] `Abdullah Ibn `Umar used to advise against marrying Christian women saying, "I do not know of a worse case of Shirk than her saying that `Isa is her lord, while Allah said,

[وَلاَ تَنْكِحُواْ الْمُشْرِكَـتِ حَتَّى يُؤْمِنَّ]

(And do not marry idolatresses till they believe.)'' Ibn Abi Hatim recorded that Abu Malik Al-Ghifari said that Ibn `Abbas said that when this Ayah was revealed,

[وَلاَ تَنْكِحُواْ الْمُشْرِكَـتِ حَتَّى يُؤْمِنَّ]

(And do not marry idolatresses till they believe,) the people did not marry the pagan women. When the following Ayah was revealed,

[وَالْمُحْصَنَـتُ مِنَ الَّذِينَ أُوتُواْ الْكِتَـبَ مِن قَبْلِكُمْ]

((Lawful to you in marriage) are chaste women from the believers and chaste women from those who were given the Scripture before your time) they married women from the People of the Book. '' Some of the Companions married Christian women and did not see any problem in this, relying on the honorable Ayah,

[وَالْمُحْصَنَـتُ مِنَ الَّذِينَ أُوتُواْ الْكِتَـبَ مِن قَبْلِكُمْ]

((Lawful to you in marriage) are chaste women from those who were given the Scripture before your time) Therefore, they made this Ayah an exception to the Ayah in Surat Al-Baqarah,

[وَلاَ تَنْكِحُواْ الْمُشْرِكَـتِ حَتَّى يُؤْمِنَّ]

(And do not marry the idolatresses till they believe,) considering the latter Ayah to include the People of the Book in its general meaning. Otherwise, there is no contradiction here, since the People of the Book were mentioned alone when mentioning the rest of the idolators. Allah said,

[لَمْ يَكُنِ الَّذِينَ كَفَرُواْ مِنْ أَهْلِ الْكِتَـبِ وَالْمُشْرِكِينَ مُنفَكِّينَ حَتَّى تَأْتِيَهُمُ الْبَيِّنَةُ ]

(Those who disbelieve from among the People of the Scripture and the idolators, were not going to leave (their disbelief) until there came to them clear evidence.) and,

[وَقُلْ لِّلَّذِينَ أُوتُواْ الْكِتَـبَ وَالاٍّمِّيِّينَ ءَأَسْلَمْتُمْ فَإِنْ أَسْلَمُواْ فَقَدِ اهْتَدَواْ]

(And say to those who were given the Scripture and to those who are illiterates: "Do you (also) submit yourselves'' If they do, they are rightly guided.) Allah said next,

[إِذَآ ءَاتَيْتُمُوهُنَّ أُجُورَهُنَّ]

(When you have given them their due), This refers to the Mahr, so just as these women are chaste and honorable, then give them their Mahr with a good heart. We should mention here that Jabir bin `Abdullah, `Amir Ash-Sha`bi, Ibrahim An-Nakha`i and Al-Hasan Al-Basri stated that when a man marries a woman and she commits illegal sexual intercourse before the marriage is consummated, the marriage is annulled. In this case, she gives back the Mahr that he paid her. Allah said,

[مُحْصِنِينَ غَيْرَ مُسَافِحِينَ وَلاَ مُتَّخِذِى أَخْدَانٍ]

(Desiring chastity, not illegal sexual intercourse, nor taking them as girl-friends (or lovers).) And just as women must be chaste and avoid illegal sexual activity, such is the case with men, who must also be chaste and honorable. Therefore, Allah said,

[غَيْرَ مُسَافِحِينَ]

(...not illegal sexual intercourse') as adulterous people do, those who do not avoid sin, nor reject adultery with whomever offers it to them.

[وَلاَ مُتَّخِذِى أَخْدَانٍ]

(nor taking them as girl-friends (or lovers),) meaning those who have mistresses and girlfriends who commit illegal sexual intercourse with them, as we mentioned in the explanation of Surat An-Nisa'.

[يَـأَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ ءَامَنُواْ إِذَا قُمْتُمْ إِلَى الصَّلوةِ فاغْسِلُواْ وُجُوهَكُمْ وَأَيْدِيَكُمْ إِلَى الْمَرَافِقِ وَامْسَحُواْ بِرُؤُوسِكُمْ وَأَرْجُلَكُمْ إِلَى الْكَعْبَينِ وَإِن كُنتُمْ جُنُباً فَاطَّهَّرُواْ وَإِن كُنتُم مَّرْضَى أَوْ عَلَى سَفَرٍ أَوْ جَآءَ أَحَدٌ مِّنْكُم مِّنَ الْغَائِطِ أَوْ لَـمَسْتُمُ النِّسَآءَ فَلَمْ تَجِدُواْ مَآءً فَتَيَمَّمُواْ صَعِيداً طَيِّباً فَامْسَحُواْ بِوُجُوهِكُمْ وَأَيْدِيكُمْ مِّنْهُ مَا يُرِيدُ اللَّهُ لِيَجْعَلَ عَلَيْكُم مِّنْ حَرَجٍ وَلَـكِن يُرِيدُ لِيُطَهِّرَكُمْ وَلِيُتِمَّ نِعْمَتَهُ عَلَيْكُمْ لَعَلَّكُمْ تَشْكُرُونَ ]

source: www.tafsir.com
Reply

atha
07-02-2007, 04:12 PM
So, basically, Abdul-Fattah, the tafsir is pointing to the fact that even from among the women of the Scripture, the lady must be chaste? That doesn't apply nowadays, right? So, most of these marriages taking place b/w muslim men and Christian/Jew women may not be valid.

Kind Regards
Assalam-u-alaikum
Reply

doorster
07-02-2007, 04:27 PM
:sl:
Originally Posted by atha


Also, what about the Jews of today. Are they the same as the Jews of the time of prophet Mohammad or not?

Kind Regards
Assalam-u-Alaikum
Jews of today are still Ahl al-kitaab, but the problem now is that a huge majority of them are very afraid of us, so they hate us and would much prefer to do away with us than to marry us.

You can blame that on Nazi trinitarian Catholics for that who slaughtered around about 6 million that is like a 3rd of today total population. So they are in no hurry to see a repeat of that. (Iranian and lebenese lahnatulahs are no less to blame)

conclusion:

why not just marry Muslims to Muslims and put these silly fatwah shops out of business (or if you must then ask a real life scholar (should have a phd at the very least, none of those who sat at some grave site for 20 year or made tea for a moolah for 15 year and got an "ijazah") in person or in writing
:w:

It is important to know that the pagan belief of trinity that the polytheist Trinitarian pagans hold today did exist during Prophet Muhammad's (P.B.U.H) days.


This is clearly shown in the following Verses

Say: O People of the Book! Come to common terms as between us and you: That we worship none but Allah; that we associate no partners with Him; that we erect not, from among ourselves, Lords and patrons other than Allah.' If then they turn back, say ye: 'Bear witness that we are Muslims.

They do blaspheme who say: 'Allah is Christ the son of Mary.' But said Christ: 'O Children of Israel! Worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord.' Whoever joins other gods with Allah - Allah will forbid him the Garden, and the Fire will be his abode. There will for the wrongdoers be no one to help.

They do blaspheme who say: God is one of three in a Trinity: for there is no god except One God. If they desist not from their word, verily a grievous penalty will befall the blasphemers among them.

"O People of the Book! Commit no excesses in your religion: Nor say of God anything but the truth. Christ Jesus the son of Mary was an apostle of God, and His Word, which He bestowed on Mary, and a spirit proceeding from Him: so believe in God and His apostles.

Say not "Trinity": desist: it will be better for you: for God is one God: Glory be to Him: above having a son. To Him belong all things in the heavens and on earth. And enough is God as a Disposer of affairs.
Reply

doorster
07-02-2007, 04:35 PM
Originally Posted by atha
So, basically, Abdul-Fattah, the tafsir is pointing to the fact that even from among the women of the Scripture, the lady must be chaste? That doesn't apply nowadays, right? So, most of these marriages taking place b/w muslim men and Christian/Jew women may not be valid.

Kind Regards
Assalam-u-alaikum
chaste does not mean past conduct but present and future piety. anyone is allowed to repent thus become pious thereafter.

I dont think you botherd to go to link I gave in first post. So I take my leave!
salam
Reply

atha
07-02-2007, 05:16 PM
Originally Posted by doorster
dont think you botherd to go to link I gave in first post. So I take my leave!
salam
Assalam-u-alaikum

I took a look at it now. Thanks. Also, is there a specific video there, you think I should view? They don't have titles and I don't have time to go over them and decide which one pertains to my topic here.

Furthermore, your last post seem to give me the impression that its allowed and halal for muslim men to marry the Christian women who hold the Trinitarian concept. But then in your previous post you mentioned that Christian of this time are not the same as the Christian of the past. So, now I am kind of getting confused. Does this ruling allow marriage b/w muslim man and a Christian lady of this time who holds the Triniatrian concept of God.


Oh also, didn't the quran say "marry the chase believing women". So, are Christians of today considered believers? That was one question I asked in my very first post here.


Originally Posted by atha
Oh also, didn't the quran say "marry the chase believing women". So, are Christians of today considered believers? That was one question I asked in my very first post here.

Kind Regards
Assalam-u-alaikum
Ok, I know the answer to that. I misquoted. It goes like this "Lawful unto you in marriage) are (not only) chaste women who are believers, but chaste women among the People of the Book, revealed before your time"

Nevermind this question.


By the way, everyone thanks for replying to my inquiries.

Kind Regards
Assalam-u-alaikum
Reply

islamirama
07-02-2007, 05:30 PM
Originally Posted by atha
Oh also, didn't the quran say "marry the chase believing women". So, are Christians of today considered believers? That was one question I asked in my very first post here.

Kind Regards
Assalam-u-alaikum
Here's the islamic stand on all of this.

Muslim women may marry only muslim men and no other. If they do, their marriage is invalide and she is living in sin.

Muslim man may marry from the muslim women and people of the book. From people of the book, he must marry the chaste and upright, good women. There are some in the world but not that many anymore as dating and sex starts off at age 11 in their societies.

People of the book are non-Muslims, Muslims are believers. There's difference of opinion that on whether to call them kuffars or non-Muslims since we know hindus, pagans and other non-ahle khitaab are kuffars.

Lastly, scholars say that you are not allowed to marry people of the book when there are muslim women in your community/society that are unwed and seeking to get married. The priority is given to them first. And since we have lots of unwed muslim women not just in everybody's community but on larger scare nationally or internationally, marrying to the people of the book is should be last on the list if at all an option these days.
Reply

- Qatada -
07-02-2007, 06:36 PM
:salamext:


Sorry if this has been mentioned before:


They are not lawful (wives) for the unbelievers, nor are the unbelievers lawful (husbands) for them...

(Al-Mumtahina:10)


And Allah the most esteemed and exhalted has also said (interpretation of the meaning):

Nor marry (your girls) to unbelievers until they believe... (Al-Baqara:221)


Source


Someone might question the brackets in them verses, so here's the full verse in context;



Thats a verse from Qur'an in Surah [Chapter] Mumtahina.


If we see the whole context of the verse, it's in regard to the time when women from Makkah were making Hijrah [migrating from Makkah to Medina] and due to that - i think this surah was revealed.


If we see the whole verse in its context, its referring to the believing women:


O you who believe! When believing women come to you as emigrants, examine them, Allah knows best as to their Faith, then if you ascertain that they are true believers, send them not back to the disbelievers, they are not lawful (wives) for the disbelievers nor are the disbelievers lawful (husbands) for them. But give the disbelievers that (amount of money) which they have spent [as their Mahr/dowry] to them. And there will be no sin on you to marry them if you have paid their Mahr to them. Likewise hold not the disbelieving women as wives, and ask for (the return of) that which you have spent (as Mahr) and let them (the disbelievers, etc.) ask back for that which they have spent. That is the Judgement of Allah. He judges between you. And Allah is All-Knowing, All-Wise.

[Qur'an Al Mumtahina 60:10]
Reply

- Qatada -
07-02-2007, 06:43 PM
:salamext:

But it says here "believers". Are Christians/Jews considered believers or non-believers?

The people of the Book are disbelievers if they reject Allaah's final Messenger, Muhammad (peace be upon him), Allaah says in the Qur'an (interpretation of the meaning):


Those who disbelieve from among the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians) and among Al-Mushrikûn (the polytheists) were not going to leave (their disbelief) until there came to them clear evidence.

A Messenger (Muhammad (Peace be upon him)) from Allâh, reciting (the Qur'ân) purified pages [purified from Al-Bâtil (falsehood, etc.)].

Containing correct and straight laws from Allâh.


And the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians) differed not until after there came to them clear evidence. (i.e. Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon him) and whatever was revealed to him).

And they were commanded not, but that they should worship Allâh, and worship none but Him Alone (abstaining from ascribing partners to Him), and perform As-Salât (Iqâmat-as-Salât - the 5 daily Prayers) and give Zakât (the charity): and that is the right religion.

Verily, those who disbelieve (in the religion of Islâm, the Qur'ân and Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon him)) from among the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians) and Al-Mushrikûn will abide in the Fire of Hell. They are the worst of creatures.


Verily, those who believe [in the Oneness of Allâh, and in His Messenger Muhammad (Peace be upon him)) including all obligations ordered by Islâm] and do righteous good deeds, they are the best of creatures.

Their reward with their Lord is 'Adn (Eden) Paradise (Gardens of Eternity), underneath which rivers flow, they will abide therein forever, Allâh Well-Pleased with them, and they with Him. That is for him who fears his Lord.


[Qur'an - Al Bayyinah [the Clear Proof/Evidence] 98]



Indeed, those who disbelieve in Allah and His messengers and wish to discriminate between Allah and His messengers and say, "We believe in some and disbelieve in others," and wish to adopt a way in between -

They are in truth disbelievers. And We have prepared for the disbelievers a humiliating torment.

And those who believe in Allah and His Messengers and make no distinction between any of them (Messengers), We shall give them their rewards, and Allah is Ever Oft*Forgiving, Most Merciful.


[Qur'an 4: 150-2]


So one has to accept ALL the Messengers' of God, and if one was to reject even one of them - then they are in truth disbelievers, since they are saying that God has lied. We take the whole package, not just part of it.



Also, there is an authentic hadith in Sahih Muslim, that the Messenger of Allaah (peace be upon him) said (translation of the meaning):

"There is no Jew, nor any Christian, who hears about me, and then does not believe in me and in that with which I have been sent, except that Allah must enter him into the Fire." [Sahih Muslim]


And Allaah knows best.
Reply

Muslim Woman
07-07-2007, 02:12 AM
:sl:


in the following verse , it's mentioned that women of those who received the Scripture before you (lawful for you) ...so , it's clear that the verse is applicable for Muslim men & not for Muslim women as women can't marry other women.



And so are the virtuous women of the believers and the virtuous women of those who received the Scripture before you
(lawful for you) when ye give them their marriage portions and live with them in honor, not in fornication, nor taking them as secret concubines.

(Al-Ma’dah: 5)


related link:


Sajidah - Uzbekistan

Title
Marrying a Non-Muslim Male



.....
Allah Almighty says: “ Wed not idolatresses till they believe; for lo! a believing bondwoman is better than an idolatress though she please you; and give not your daughters in marriage to idolaters till they believe, for lo! a believing slave is better than an idolater though he please you. These invite unto the Fire, and Allah inviteth unto the Garden, and unto forgiveness by His grace, and expoundeth thus His revelations to mankind that haply they may remember.”

(Al-Baqarah: 221)



The only exception is given to Muslim men who are allowed to marry the girls from among the People of the Book.




Allah Almighty says: “This day are (all) good things made lawful for you. The food of those who have received the Scripture is lawful for you, and your food is lawful for them. And so are the virtuous women of the believers and the virtuous women of those who received the Scripture before you (lawful for you) when ye give them their marriage portions and live with them in honor, not in fornication, nor taking them as secret concubines. Whoso denieth the faith, his work is vain and he will be among the losers in the Hereafter.” (Al-Ma’dah: 5)




For the satisfaction of your heart, let me explain why Muslim men are allowed to marry women from among the People of the Book and why Muslim women are not allowed to do so.

First of all, it is not an honor or a privilege to marry a non-Muslim. It is a burden and a big responsibility. It is better to abstain from such marriages. Muslim men who are living in non-Muslim countries in particular should not marry non-Muslim women. However, man being the head of his household is more capable to handle the needs and problems of his non-Muslim (Christian or Jewish) wife. Muslims believe that Moses and Jesus, peace and blessings be upon them all, were Prophets of Allah and so they give them full honor and respect.

Jews and Christians do not consider Prophet Muhammad, peace and blessings be upon him, as the Prophet of Allah. Thus they are unable to give the same respect and honor to him and to his followers.




A Jewish or Christian woman with a Muslim husband will be in a much better position than a Muslim woman with a Jewish or a Christian husband. Even then, there are many non-Muslim women who married outside their faith say that they wish their religion too had forbidden them, because they know how difficult and hard it is to be the wife of a husband who has a different faith.

A Muslim woman should know that Allah has really honored her and made it easy for her by not allowing her to marry a non-Muslim man.




According to the Qur'an, the husband is the head of the household and his wife should obey him. Allah does not put the Muslim woman in a position that a non-Muslim becomes her head in her own private life. Allah has spared her to suffer from being under the authority of a non-Muslim husband.

Please abandon the idea of marrying a non-Muslim, unless he truly accepts Islam. If you marry a non-Muslim, this will be a major sin. You will be living in sin and your relationship with that non-Muslim will be illegitimate in the eyes of Allah. May Allah protect you from all sins, Amen.”

If you have any further comments, please don't hesitate to write back!




Allah Almighty knows best.


http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/S...=1119503543072
Reply

Grace Seeker
07-07-2007, 03:35 AM
Will you let a non-Muslim speak to this?


The whole concept behind a Muslim marrying a non-Muslim (be they male or female) is that it should not cause a Muslim to quit being Muslim. Now, while Islam may allow for a Muslim man to marry a non-Muslim woman on the concept that there would be no pressure on the Muslim male to convert. That certainly is not the case with regard to the woman (and may not be as true with the man as some might suppose).

From the stand point of the Christian religion. No Christian male or female should marry a non-Christian. Of course, many do. But if they were taking their faith seriously they would not. And if they were to later take it more seriously after marriage there would like be conflict because of the differences. Now a Christian woman married to a non-Christian man is told to witness in silence so as to maintain peace in the house. In this circumstance it might be possible for the Muslim man and Christian woman to live together in harmony, though I expect some conflict with regard to the children. But a Christian man is told to exercise authority as head of the household. This will certainly make it more difficult on a Muslim woman married to a Christian man. If the man does not take his faith seriouslyone question if he is the type of person characterized as a follower of righteousness. If he does take his Christians faith seriously, then he is going to attempt to exert authority over his Muslim wife not only in the running of the household, but in spritual issues as well, and that will lead to conflicts between her faith and that of her husband. Better just to avoid the situation to begin with.
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