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vorx
07-02-2007, 11:04 PM
Hello everyone,

I begin this topic by quoting a saying from Apocalypto movie:

And a Man sat alone, drenched deep in sadness. And all the animals drew near to him and said, "We do not like to see you so sad. Ask us for whatever you wish and you shall have it." The Man said, "I want to have good sight." The vulture replied, "You shall have mine." The Man said, "I want to be strong." The jaguar said, "You shall be strong like me." Then the Man said, "I long to know the secrets of the earth." The serpent replied, "I will show them to you." And so it went with all the animals. And when the Man had all the gifts that they could give, he left. Then the owl said to the other animals, "Now the Man knows much, he'll be able to do many things. Suddenly I am afraid." The deer said, "The Man has all that he needs. Now his sadness will stop." But the owl replied, "No. I saw a hole in the Man, deep like a hunger he will never fill. It is what makes him sad and what makes him want. He will go on taking and taking, until one day the World will say, 'I am no more and I have nothing left to give.'"

Once again I am in the struggle to justify my identity in the world and I hit the same old conclusion. I am an animal.

I find it hard to distinguish myself from every other beasts in the wild as a human being with "intelligence". As far as I am concerned, my intelligence only puts me in complicated situations. Animals don't go through the pain humans do, yet we are the only living things who involve themselves in stupid social rules.

It is so forbidden to have sex outside marriage. It is so forbidden to stare at a nice looking girl. It is so forbidden to marry someone who isn't a Muslim. If you plan to marry a Muslim, plan also to afford a car and a house. You must have a real job, with real steady income.

The only state of mind that matters for a living thing is survival and domination. By that, i mean eating the weak, and passing offsprings. Live as long as you could. When it comes to religions setting rules, it only lay hardcore boundaries and make the living even worse.

No matter how much yoga you do, how many miles you ran, how many times you pray to God, how well you eat, or whatever you think you do to feel better, in the end of day you will feel sad.

Why do we feel so much in need of God, when God just creates and let us decide our destiny? Why do we need God so much? I totally believe there is a God, my creator and the creator of everything else, but why bother provoking him? Why do we need to come up with a religion that sets itself as the way to live to virtue and exclude everything else as unholy?

There is no virtue, and God created us because that his business. No one knows what is God up to. If he wanted to reveal a secret, he could, with all his powers, just told me "hey man i want you to do this to become this, If you contrary to what i want you to do then you will be doomed in hell

Why do I want to rely on some old religion? Why wouldn't God send a messenger after WW2 and colonization era, when the real mess poor countries live in now, started few hundred years ago. So what, God sent Muhammed because people used to bury their daughters in sand? give me a break!

Discuss please =)

P.S. I am not responsible if you think i am misleading you from your 72 virgins in heaven lol.
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- Qatada -
07-04-2007, 03:55 PM
Hey.


Originally Posted by vorx
Hello everyone,

I begin this topic by quoting a saying from Apocalypto movie:

And a Man sat alone, drenched deep in sadness. And all the animals drew near to him and said, "We do not like to see you so sad. Ask us for whatever you wish and you shall have it." The Man said, "I want to have good sight." The vulture replied, "You shall have mine." The Man said, "I want to be strong." The jaguar said, "You shall be strong like me." Then the Man said, "I long to know the secrets of the earth." The serpent replied, "I will show them to you." And so it went with all the animals. And when the Man had all the gifts that they could give, he left. Then the owl said to the other animals, "Now the Man knows much, he'll be able to do many things. Suddenly I am afraid." The deer said, "The Man has all that he needs. Now his sadness will stop." But the owl replied, "No. I saw a hole in the Man, deep like a hunger he will never fill. It is what makes him sad and what makes him want. He will go on taking and taking, until one day the World will say, 'I am no more and I have nothing left to give.'"

That's an interesting story. :)


It kind of reminds me of this Prophetic narration;

Narrated Ibn ‘Abbâs and Anas bin Mâlik: Allah’s Messenger said, “If a son of man had a valley full of gold, he would desire to have two. Nothing can fill his mouth except the earth (of the grave). Allah turns with mercy to him who turns to Him in repentance.” (Al-Bukhâri and Muslim)
Humans by nature desire more continuously, until we reach the grave. Then we face the reality of what our own hands brought forward (our deeds.)



Once again I am in the struggle to justify my identity in the world and I hit the same old conclusion. I am an animal.

Allaah says in the Qur'an (translation of the meaning);

We have honoured the sons of Adam; provided them with transport on land and sea; given them for sustenance things good and pure; and conferred on them special favours, above a great part of our creation.

[Qur'an 17: 70]

You, I and all of humanity has been given great blessings. Nearly anything which is on the earth and in the skies is subservient to us. The sun, the moon, the stars, the Day and the Night. These to keep us warm, as guides for the night and times for rest. To help our fruits and vegetables grow, from which the cattle eat, and we too eat and get other benefits. Imagine just one of these blessings were taken away from us, i.e. the Sun. Would we still exist today? Nope. This then is a great mercy from Allaah to us.


Allaah has made the land subservient for us by allowing us to have smooth roads, yet Allaah could have made the whole world rough like mountains, or made it all water so we couldn't travel freely with ease. He could have removed our transport from us so we couldn't carry any heavy loads for long journeys. All these are great signs from Allaah and a Mercy for us. Imagine we had none of these. Then imagine our situation.




I find it hard to distinguish myself from every other beasts in the wild as a human being with "intelligence". As far as I am concerned, my intelligence only puts me in complicated situations. Animals don't go through the pain humans do, yet we are the only living things who involve themselves in stupid social rules.

You've been given intellect unlike the other animals of Allaah.
كِتَابٌ أَنزَلْنَاهُ إِلَيْكَ مُبَارَكٌ لِّيَدَّبَّرُوا آيَاتِهِ وَلِيَتَذَكَّرَ أُوْلُوا الْأَلْبَابِ

This is a Book full of Blessings that we have revealed unto you so people ponder upon its verses and men of intellect may reflect.

(Quran 38:29)

You have been given this intellect so you can truelly figure out the difference between truth and falsehood. From wrong and right. Yet along with this, you need a basis, a central point which you can ponder and reflect on. This is the miracle revealed to Allaah's Messenger, the Qur'an.


Since you know arabic, i'd strongly urge you to reflect on it and read it in its original language since it's really powerful than just to read a translation.



Okay, but anyway - you were talking about social laws. You believe in God, alhamdulillah. You believe that He has created us and has sent to us so many blessings, agreed.

Now that He's created us all with all the tools, it's really obvious that He would send us the rules too. There are man made laws, which can agree with Allaah's laws in some aspects, but alot of the time they contradict Allaah's laws of justice too. Usually because of the injustice and personal gain which man desires for himself.


We as humans require social rules in order for their to be justice on the earth. Without this there would be chaos on the earth, even those who disbelieve realise this. So shouldn't we agree that Allaah would send guidance which cover all aspects of life? This is one of the main reasons for revelation - to unite mankind on what they differed.



Now let's see some points which you made, and we can try to clarify some reasons why them certain rules apply, insha Allaah:


It is so forbidden to have sex outside marriage.

Sexuality when becoming widespread in a society causes a huge amount of corruption. Let's see what the Islamic Shari'a tries to uphold as a whole;
Since the Islamic legal injunctions are aimed at achieving human welfare, they can all be referred back to universal principles which are necessary for human welfare to be secured. These universal principles are:

1. The preservation of life.
2. The preservation of religion.
3. The preservation of reason.
4. The preservation of lineage.
5. The preservation of property.

The Islamic penal system is aimed at preserving these five universal necessities. To preserve life, it prescribes the law of retribution. To preserve religion, it prescribes the punishment for apostasy. To preserve reason, it prescribes the punishment for drinking. To preserve lineage, it prescribes the punishment for fornication. To preserve wealth, it prescribes the punishment for theft. To protect all of them, it prescribed the punishment for highway robbery.

It should therefore become clear to us why the crimes for which Islam for which the Law has prescribed fixed punishments are as follows:

1. Transgression against life (murder or assault).
2. Transgression against property (theft).
3. Transgression against lineage (fornication and false accusations of adultery).
4. Transgression against reason (using intoxicants).
5. Transgression against religion (apostasy).
6. Transgression against all of these universal needs (highway robbery).

http://www.islamicboard.com/basics-i...ent-islam.html (Crime and Punishment in Islam)

The issue of lineage is extremely important in society because it keeps a family secure, and if the families are secure, then society as a whole will be more secure. If society as a whole is more secure, then the nation as a whole can be secure from the inside. And if this is the case - then many people within that nation are safe.

Most nations only break down once there is internal conflict, and internal conflict starts off from the home. If someone has an illegitimate child, do you think the child's going to feel happy? Infact that child may get pyschological problems because he/she doesn't really belong to a legitimate father, this may make him feel rejected and if this was to be on a greater scale - the harm would be much greater as a whole.




It is so forbidden to stare at a nice looking girl.

The first lustful stare leads to many other evils, so Islaam prevents people from falling into the evil in the first place.

Think about it, how does illicit sexual intercourse start? From the first look, then by talking, then by meeting, then by dating, then it usually leads to intercourse. And some of the reasons why it's prohibited is stated in the earlier point.



It is so forbidden to marry someone who isn't a Muslim.

Not always, since there are exceptions to chaste Christian females and Jewish females. However, getting married to a muslim woman may be better.

Think about it, if you want your child to be a good muslim, do you think having an idolator as your spouse is going to help them be more of a good muslim? Or is that going to distance them away from Islaam more? Making them go through a really confusing time, in a state of sadness and anxiety?


Or are you going to stick with them with the correct teachings, so they can be good people, good muslims when they're older? So they can convey the message of Allaah to mankind, enjoining the good and forbidding the evil? Isn't that the purpose of our life?



If you plan to marry a Muslim, plan also to afford a car and a house. You must have a real job, with real steady income.

This isn't the case at all. Infact, this is just due to culture.


Theres a whole thread about how lots of people go through similar, yet others have explained that it's not Islaam, rather just culture.

http://www.islamicboard.com/marriage-islam/43747-why-so-difficult.html


Let's look at what happened at the time of the Messenger of Allaah himself:
Sahih Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 24:

Narrated Sahl bin Sad As-Sa'idi:

A woman came to Allah's Apostle and said, "O Allah's Apostle! I have come to give you myself in marriage (without Mahr)." Allah's Apostle looked at her. He looked at her carefully and fixed his glance on her and then lowered his head. When the lady saw that he did not say anything, she sat down. A man from his companions got up and said, "O Allah's Apostle! If you are not in need of her, then marry her to me." The Prophet said, "Have you got anything to offer?" The man said, "No, by Allah, O Allah's Apostle!" The Prophet said (to him), "Go to your family and see if you have something." The man went and returned, saying, "No, by Allah, I have not found anything." Allah's Apostle said, "(Go again) and look for something, even if it is an iron ring." He went again and returned, saying, "No, by Allah, O Allah's Apostle! I could not find even an iron ring, but this is my Izar (waist sheet)." He had no rida. He added, "I give half of it to her." Allah's Apostle said, "What will she do with your Izar? If you wear it, she will be naked, and if she wears it, you will be naked." So that man sat down for a long while and then got up (to depart). When Allah's Apostle saw him going, he ordered that he be called back. When he came, the Prophet said, "How much of the Quran do you know?" He said, "I know such Sura and such Sura," counting them. The Prophet said, "Do you know them by heart?" He replied, "Yes." The Prophet said, "Go, I marry her to you for that much of the Quran which you have."

Do you see that it's not Islaam, just culture. :)

However, supporting the wife is something important since that is the duty of the male. Another great right which the women have in Islaam, yet this isn't the duty upon the men even within western culture today!



The only state of mind that matters for a living thing is survival and domination. By that, i mean eating the weak, and passing offsprings. Live as long as you could. When it comes to religions setting rules, it only lay hardcore boundaries and make the living even worse.

In Islaam, we know that death is already decreed for us;
And it is not [possible] for one to die except by permission of Allah at a decree determined. And whoever desires the reward of this world - We will give him thereof; and whoever desires the reward of the Hereafter - We will give him thereof. And we will reward the grateful.

(Qur'an 3:145)

So in Islaam, it's nothing about 'survival of the fittest' - since we do know that all that we have is already by the will of Allaah recorded for us.

So in reality - the muslims shouldn't even use impermissible methods to get wealth, or provisions (rizq) since they believe in the concept of destiny. So they should use the permissible methods which Allaah has permitted us, and then we should place our trust in Allaah knowing that He will provide for us.



The religious setting rules are required in order to create peace among society, to help mankind unite and to bring unity among each other. So the rich help the needy, so there isn't injustice. So there isn't oppression or terrorism.

Whereas those who disbelieve and sin continuously? What are their aims apart from 'myself, myself, myself?' Not understanding the concept of destiny, maybe doing evil in order to get more for themselves. Maybe oppressing others, thinking that they will get benefit. Boasting in pride and arrogance because of the great blessings which Allaah has blessed them with, yet little do they know that they will be questioned about all these by the One who gave them everything when they had nothing. That they are responsible for their own deeds.
Then is one who walks fallen on his face better guided or one who walks erect on a straight path? (i.e. Islamic Monotheism).

Say, "It is He who has produced you and made for you hearing and vision and hearts; little are you grateful."

Say, " It is He who has multiplied you throughout the earth, and to Him you will be gathered."


[Qur'an 67: 22-4]


No matter how much yoga you do, how many miles you ran, how many times you pray to God, how well you eat, or whatever you think you do to feel better, in the end of day you will feel sad.


That isn't true at all. :)


I'll try quoting you Ibn Hazm Al Andalusi, a great scholar in our Islamic history;
Ibn Hazm says:

170. The man who is unhappy in love is the one who is racked by a passion for one whom he can keep locked away and with whom he may be united without incurring the wrath of God or the criticism of his fellow-men. All is well when the two lovers agree in loving each other. For love to run its course freely, it is essential that the two do not feel bored, for that is a bad feeling which gives rise to hatred. Perfect love would be if destiny forgot the two lovers while they were enjoying each other. But where could that happen except in Paradise? Only there can love be sure of shelter, for that is the home of everlasting stability. Otherwise, in the world, such feelings are not protected from misfortunes, and we go through life without ever tasting pleasure to the full.
  • This attitude is one carried by the salaf. It was said that if you had placed a rock of gold in their palms, or a rock of mud, they would react in a similiar fashion. Meaning, they would not get extremely happy for the rock of gold, not increasingly sad for the rock of mud.
  • One could argue that closing the doors to all joy and all sorrow is an exercise in futility for human beings. That may very well be true, however trying to limit these emotions would probably lead to contentment.
  • Contentment is all we can hope for in this world. Paradise, and only paradise, is Dar as-Sa'adah (the abode of happiness).
http://www.islamicboard.com/islamic-...-andalusi.html
So no matter how much we have in this world, as you stated in the story you mentioned at the beginning - we'll never be happy since the son of Adam always wants more.

However, the cure to this feeling of sadness is to feel content with what you do have. To be grateful to Allaah for the good which He has given us, and the only place where the son of Adam can taste pleasure to the fullest is within Paradise (the true abode of happiness.)



So what do you need to aim for in this life? To gain the feeling of content. This is by giving thanks to Allaah for all the blessings which He has given us. And to be grateful since there are people who are in a worser situation than us.


One of the greatest ways to understand this concept is by understanding our purpose in life - i.e.
And (remember) when your Lord proclaimed: "If you give thanks (by accepting Faith and worshipping none but Allâh), I will give you more (of My Blessings), but if you are thankless (i.e. disbelievers), verily! My Punishment is indeed severe."

[Qur'an 14: 7]

And if you thank Allaah and you are grateful, then Allaah will send the feeling of tranquility and calmness upon you. This is something which everyone wants, and it is the true sense of happiness within this life, and a sign of Allaah's pleasure. Because He, the Compassionate says (translation of the meaning):
He it is Who sent down As-Sakinah (calmness and tranquillity) into the hearts of the believers, that they may grow more in Faith along with their (present) Faith. And to Allâh belong the hosts of the heavens and the earth, and Allâh is Ever All-Knower, All-Wise.

That He may admit the believing men and the believing women to Gardens under which rivers flow (i.e. Paradise), to abide therein forever, and to expiate from them their sins, and that is with Allâh, a supreme success,


[Qur'an Al Fath (the Victory) 48: 4-5]


With more obedience of Allaah, you gain more tranquility and calmness within yourself.
Allah says:
“Whosoever does right, whether male or female, and is a believer, we shall make them live a good life, and We shall pay them a recompense in proportion to the best of what they used to do.”
[Qur'an Sûrah al-Nahl: 97]


Why do we feel so much in need of God, when God just creates and let us decide our destiny? Why do we need God so much? I totally believe there is a God, my creator and the creator of everything else, but why bother provoking him? Why do we need to come up with a religion that sets itself as the way to live to virtue and exclude everything else as unholy?

Like we stated earlier, the true Criterion of the difference between truth and falsehood, what is good in the sight of Allaah and what is disliked is mentioned within His revelation which He sends to His Messengers'.

Messengers' who are humans, just like us. If he had to send a Messenger to angels, then He would send them an angel Messenger, and similarly, if He sends a Messenger to humans, then He sends them a Messenger from amongst themselves to make the call of Allaah clear.



There is no virtue, and God created us because that his business. No one knows what is God up to. If he wanted to reveal a secret, he could, with all his powers, just told me "hey man i want you to do this to become this, If you contrary to what i want you to do then you will be doomed in hell

Allaah forgives ALL sins apart from partners being associated with Him (if someone dies in the state of associating partners with Allaah.) If you know that He is your Creator and Sustainer, then you should realise that He is Alone worthy of worship and obedience. This obedience is what He has commanded us in order for mankind to live at peace with one another. So one can remain in a state of connection with our Creator, the Most Kind.

This life is a mixture of good aswell as falsehood. Those who choose to believe in Allaah, that He is alone worthy of worship/obedience, and accept His Messengers' who call to good - then they will be rewarded. Whereas those who belie Allaah, and say that He has lied, or feel that they don't need to worship Allaah or accept His Message, then why should He reward them for that? Isn't that selfish and being ungrateful?


So if you strive for Allaah's pleasure, then aim for it and Allaah will give you more in this life and the next. However, if you prefer disbelief over belief, ungratefulness over gratefulness, and this life over the hereafter - then know that this life is only temporary, a delusion. And it will end, but you don't know when. But Allaah does. So if you want to gain Allaah's pleasure, then ask Him to guide you to the correct way.


Allaah says:
“O My slaves, all of you are astray except those whom I guide, so ask Me for guidance, and I will guide you. O My slaves, all of you are hungry except those whom I feed, so ask me for food and I will feed you. O My slaves, all of you are naked except those whom I clothe, so ask Me for clothing and I will clothe you. … O My slaves, if the first of you and the last of you, your humans and your jinn, were to stand on a single plain and ask of Me and I were to give each one what he asked for, that would not cause any loss to Me greater than what is lost when a needle is dipped into the sea.”

Narrated by Muslim (2577).


Why do I want to rely on some old religion?

Islaam (submission to Allaah) has been the religion of ALL 124,000 Prophets of Allaah. From Adam, Noah, Abraham, Moses, Jesus, Muhammad (peace be upon them all.)



Why wouldn't God send a messenger after WW2 and colonization era, when the real mess poor countries live in now, started few hundred years ago.
That's because Allaah doesn't need to send a Messenger after His final Messenger, Muhammad (peace be upon him.) He has sent and perfected the message. Now it is upto us as humans on whether we want to accept it or not. Whether we want to advance or not. Or whether we want to stay in the state of ignorance, and therefore be losers in this life and the hereafter.



And Allaah knows best.





Peace.
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vorx
07-04-2007, 06:44 PM
Originally Posted by - Qatada -

However, the cure to this feeling of sadness is to feel content with what you do have. To be grateful to Allaah for the good which He has given us, and the only place where the son of Adam can taste pleasure to the fullest is within Paradise (the true abode of happiness.)

Islaam (submission to Allaah) has been the religion of ALL 124,000 Prophets of Allaah. From Adam, Noah, Abraham, Moses, Jesus, Muhammad (peace be upon them all.)[B]
Yeah thanks for the reply. I try to be thankful but usually i am only tricking myself. I get something i want, i enjoy it for a while then i get bored of it. I can never feel 100% happy with what i have.

oh how do u know ALL 124,000 Prophets of Allaah? :rollseyes
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- Qatada -
07-04-2007, 07:31 PM
Originally Posted by vorx
Yeah thanks for the reply. I try to be thankful but usually i am only tricking myself. I get something i want, i enjoy it for a while then i get bored of it. I can never feel 100% happy with what i have.

I get what you mean, sometimes you have to get enjoyment through means which will draw you closer to Allaah.

There are people who actually enjoy using their money to help the needy (which you stated you do sometimes alhamdulillah.) So try to draw closer to Allaah, maybe make a habit for yourself. Make targets and aims for yourself. Tell yourself that you'll have reached a certain goal which will draw you closer to Allaah within a week for example. Once you reach that goal, you may draw closer to Allaah and get that feeling of satisfaction since you reached the target.


Alot of people feel empty because they feel they've never achieved anything in their lives, so you need to try to do that. If you get enjoyment by buying things which might not always be beneficial, then how about reading the description of Paradise, then saying to Allaah - please if i give this much money to an orphan, then make me a palace or mansion in Paradise, Allaah may reward you for that and answer your prayer. Then maybe ask Allaah for a sign to see if your deed got accepted? Keep that constant relationship with Allaah and if you draw closer to Him, He will come to you at speed.


You get what i mean insha Allaah.. it's all about aims, targets - each time reaching out further to go to a higher level.




oh how do u know ALL 124,000 Prophets of Allaah? :rollseyes

There's an authentic hadith narrated in the Musnad of Imam Ahmad. In which the Messenger of Allaah, Muhammad (peace be upon him) stated that there were 124,000 Prophets (Nabi's), and around 300 Messengers (Rasools'.)

Some scholars say that a Messenger (Rasool) brings a new message, whereas the Nabis' (Prophets) continue with a similar message which may have been brought from a previous Messenger (Rasool.)


A Rasool is also a Nabi, but a Nabi isn't always a Rasool. And Allaah knows best.



And Allaah knows best. :)
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Grace Seeker
07-06-2007, 09:55 PM
I see the world very differently than you. (Unless you are just posting this to see what type of philosophical discussion may occur in response.)

First, I do not see the animals living devoid of their own set of social customs and mores.

The wolf is lead by one leader of the pack. No other female in the pack may mate except the Alpha female. She enforces this rule savagely driving out, even killing, any other female who would dare try to have pups on her own. Yet no one can simply decide to leave and go start a pack of his/her own. A lone wolf is a desperate animal, most likely facing starvation. And so the heirarchy of the pack is strictly enforece with social rules that show submissive behavior and acceptance of the mores established by the dominant female of the pack.

The merekat has many similar rules. The Alpha female of a merekat tribe on discovering that another female is pregnant may allow her to stay, drive her off, or wait till she delivers and then kill the young. This happens even when the other female is one of her own daughters. Merekats have roles for pups, teenagers, and adults, each according to their abilities. Those roles are strictly enforced by various means from nips and bites to shunning, even abadonment.

And when you speak of the apes, the social customs become even more complex. There is not just a dominant male leading the troop, but there are proscribed places of importance in sitting in a tree, lounging around on a lazy afternoon, hunting, etc. Forget your place and someone else will put you there. Life is about far more than just eating, producing offspring, and surviving till the next day. The social relationships take on connections that can best be described as friendship. And sometimes there are traitors and backstabbers in the midst of the troop. Though I doubt that they understand these concerns to be divinely set before them, nonetheless, our closest relatives in the animal world seem to have many of the same issues you are concerned about.

Perhaps, then, it is that God gives us these rules, not to prove his dominance over us, but because he knows that we, being so much like animals, will eventually seek to relate to each other in this manner. And God wants us to find out that there is more to this life than living and dying and trying to make it through the night. He wants us to find joy, peace, love, satisfaction, celebration, happiness. God wants us to find his blessing.

God's blessing doesn't come by seeking to feed our stomachs or have more progeny than the next. It doesn't even come from living for ever. Imagine how boring immortality would be without purpose. God wants us to find our purpose, our reason for existence, not just existence itself. I think that reason is found only in God. And if that is so, then it makes sense that God would give us rules, not to put us (down) in our place, but to enable us to reach it.

We are not yet all that we can be. We are not yet all that God intends for us to become. The difference between what we are, and what we are yet to be is found in learning and growing in the way that God would have grow. And that is what religion is for, to guide us in that process.
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vorx
07-07-2007, 01:30 AM
Grace seeker, Thanks for the information about wolves. I love to study them even more. I just love and respect the wild life.

Immortality would seem boring unless our resources in every aspect of living are unlimited. That doesn't bother me as much but i see life as a hunting game. I fight to survive things that want to kill me and make me weak. The challenge is always to survive as long as I could to eat as much as I could and do things as much as I could. I don't buy food then just eat a quarter of the purchase then let the rest rot in the trash. I don't waste, and when i waste an opportunity my ego feels bad. Why? because i didn't dominate a chance and i was overwhelmed by a stronger force. That is the whole point i want to touch. We only feel good when we dominate.

It is very hard for me to be submissive especially when I lack experience. I am very young and full of energy and I can't be cute to God. Just an example is, when i was 5 or 6 my parents told me to never stick a fork up the electrical outlets but the only way i could learn is by doing it. I got shocked and it felt bad

I dont see the whole point of being goody good Muslim and praying 5 times aday and never cursing at others etc... thats just not me.. not yet.
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Grace Seeker
07-07-2007, 03:42 AM
Originally Posted by vorx
I dont see the whole point of being goody good Muslim and praying 5 times aday and never cursing at others etc... thats just not me.. not yet.
I don't see the point in being "goody, good" either. At least not for the mere sake of being good. But, as you spoke of your parent's did you eventually learn
1) that when the told you something like not to stick the fork in the outlet that it was for your betterment, not just a rule for their own pleasure?
2) that you wanted to please them not for your own benefit, but to honor them our of your love and respect for them?


Those are the reasons that I try to listen to what God has to say. That may make me appear to be "goody, good" to some people I suppose. But I'm not doing it for that purpose, I'm doing it for these others.
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