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nevesirth
07-06-2007, 01:38 PM
gotta be careful wht u say in forums and chat rooms so u dont end up like thethese guys>>>>>>>>>http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exer...56B8F34285.htm

i think the sentencing of these men is kinda extreme, wht if they were just acting up and dint rlly mean wht they were saying. their words may not necessarily reflect their true state of mind!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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wilberhum
07-06-2007, 07:48 PM
Originally Posted by nevesirth
gotta be careful wht u say in forums and chat rooms so u dont end up like thethese guys>>>>>>>>>http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exer...56B8F34285.htm

i think the sentencing of these men is kinda extreme, wht if they were just acting up and dint rlly mean wht they were saying. their words may not necessarily reflect their true state of mind!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I think the sentencing should have been stronger.

I think you may not understand the level of hate that have concumed some.
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nevesirth
07-06-2007, 07:52 PM
Originally Posted by wilberhum
I think the sentencing should have been stronger.

I think you may not understand the level of hate that have concumed some.
what happened 2 freedom of speech. and another thing, most people are not what they seem 2 be on the internet. with laws like these, many clowns will be sent to jail!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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nevesirth
07-06-2007, 07:59 PM
if the government rlly wants 2 enforce such laws, i suggest they shld check alot of forums for inciting of hate and violence be it religious racial sexual etc.

i bet u millions of internet users will be issued arrest warrants and consequently sent to jail, some for life!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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wilberhum
07-06-2007, 08:00 PM
Originally Posted by nevesirth
what happened 2 freedom of speech. and another thing, most people are not what they seem 2 be on the internet. with laws like these, many clowns will be sent to jail!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Freedom of speech does not give you the right to shout fire in an enclosed space. :skeleton:
Freedom of speech doesn’t give you the right to endanger others. :?

Clowns are funny, they have nothing in common with those that try to inspire others to hate and commit violence on others. :raging:
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wilberhum
07-06-2007, 08:02 PM
Originally Posted by nevesirth
if the government rlly wants 2 enforce such laws, i suggest they shld check alot of forums for inciting of hate and violence be it religious racial sexual etc.

i bet u millions of internet users will be issued arrest warrants and consequently sent to jail, some for life!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
And they should be.:thumbs_up
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nevesirth
07-06-2007, 08:07 PM
i dnt think such pple rlly have any impact on others, who will be convinced by such pple to carry out attacks. i believe the pple who influence others are those who do so in person not in cyberspace.
its easier to trck internet users cuz they leave traces!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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wilberhum
07-06-2007, 08:12 PM
Originally Posted by nevesirth
i dnt think such pple rlly have any impact on others, who will be convinced by such pple to carry out attacks. i believe the pple who influence others are those who do so in person not in cyberspace.
its easier to trck internet users cuz they leave traces!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I think you are wrong. Even if no one acts directly based on there tries, it could start people down the path that could results in latter attacks. Even if all they do is instell some hate, they should be stoped.

Or maybe, as a non-Muslim, I belong to the group they wanted to harm.
Reply

nevesirth
07-06-2007, 08:17 PM
Originally Posted by wilberhum
I think you are wrong. Even if no one acts directly based on there tries, it could start people down the path that could results in latter attacks. Even if all they do is instell some hate, they should be stoped.

Or maybe, as a non-Muslim, I belong to the group they wanted to harm.
yeah, u right but dnt u think the sentencing is quite severe for their offences. im sure these men never knew they were commiting a crime by indulging in such acts. i believe some where jst indulging in some twisted humour or some kind of role play!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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-S-
07-06-2007, 08:28 PM
Yeh Be careful!

Things like this are true
Reply

wilberhum
07-06-2007, 08:30 PM
Originally Posted by nevesirth
yeah, u right but dnt u think the sentencing is quite severe for their offences. im sure these men never knew they were commiting a crime by indulging in such acts. i believe some where jst indulging in some twisted humour or some kind of role play!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
No I don't. I'm sure they hoped that people would be harmed. :raging:
Common sense should tell you that trying to get someone to harm others is against the law. If I am harmed because of "some kind of role play', it will not make the pain any less. And still I question that it was "some kind of role play". But not being at the trial, I’m not going to try to out guess the judge.
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Muezzin
07-06-2007, 09:26 PM
what happened 2 freedom of speech
Absolute freedom of speech is a myth. It is not an absolute right by any means. And in my opinion, it should not be.

Incitement to murder, which is what these three were charged with and convicted for, is an abuse of freedom of speech.
Reply

ISLAMASWEENEY
07-06-2007, 09:28 PM
There Must Be Freedom All Over The World Not Just The Arab And Muslim World.
Reply

wilberhum
07-06-2007, 09:30 PM
Originally Posted by ISLAMASWEENEY
There Must Be Freedom All Over The World Not Just The Arab And Muslim World.
??????????????????????????????????????????????????
Sorry, I do not understand. :skeleton:
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ISLAMASWEENEY
07-06-2007, 09:33 PM
What i mean is that we must have a world without war.
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Pynthanomai
07-06-2007, 10:06 PM
Originally Posted by ISLAMASWEENEY
What i mean is that we must have a world without war.

Do you think it's likely that we'll ever reach that state? If we take the history of the world into consideration, it seems improbable; indeed, considering human nature, it may be impossible.
Reply

czgibson
07-06-2007, 10:48 PM
Greetings,
Originally Posted by nevesirth
i think the sentencing of these men is kinda extreme, wht if they were just acting up and dint rlly mean wht they were saying. their words may not necessarily reflect their true state of mind!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
What about their possessions?

Compact discs with instructions for making explosives and poisons were found among their possessions and documents showing how to use a rocket-propelled grenade and make booby traps and a suicide vest.
I suppose it's OK to have nutters going around with interests like this?

Originally Posted by nevesirth
i believe some where jst indulging in some twisted humour or some kind of role play!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Like this, you mean?

Originally Posted by Mizanur Rahman
We want to see them coming home in body bags. We want to see their blood running in the streets of Baghdad.

We want to see the mujahideen shoot down their planes the way we shoot down birds. We want to see their tanks burn in the way we burn their flags.
That sounds like a real rib-tickler. What a comedian.

How can you defend such people?

Why not lock them up and throw away the key?

Peace
Reply

nevesirth
07-06-2007, 11:25 PM
Originally Posted by czgibson
Greetings,


What about their possessions?



I suppose it's OK to have nutters going around with interests like this?



Like this, you mean?



That sounds like a real rib-tickler. What a comedian.

How can you defend such people?

Why not lock them up and throw away the key?

Peace
i sincerely hope none of these guys is a member of LI!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
Reply

czgibson
07-06-2007, 11:29 PM
Greetings,
Originally Posted by nevesirth
i sincerely hope none of these guys is a member of LI!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
Sorry to be petulant, but may I ask again:

How can you defend such people?

Peace
Reply

nevesirth
07-06-2007, 11:37 PM
Originally Posted by czgibson
Greetings,


Sorry to be petulant, but may I ask again:

How can you defend such people?

Peace
i never defended them. im just looking at their cases objectively. they might have been ignorant and oblivious to the consequences of their actions or utterances, thts all im saying. im not defending them neither do i support such views!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Reply

nevesirth
07-06-2007, 11:47 PM
Originally Posted by Iqram
Don't try and justify it, accept that you just have to watch what you say on the net. Simple as.

:w:
were u refering 2 me? cuz i was the one who came up with the topic. and i aint justifying anyones actions, all im trying to prove is tht these men might have not been aware of their actions and im certain they never knew such laws existed, if they did they wouldnt have made such remarks on the net. i feel they are just being used as scape goats. y havnt we heard their own sides of the story till date?????????????
Reply

Intisar
07-06-2007, 11:57 PM
Originally Posted by Iqram
Don't try and justify it, accept that you just have to watch what you say on the net. Simple as.

:w:
I agree brother.
Reply

czgibson
07-07-2007, 12:04 AM
Greetings,
Originally Posted by nevesirth
i never defended them.
Um, how about here, when you said:

i think the sentencing of these men is kinda extreme, wht if they were just acting up and dint rlly mean wht they were saying. their words may not necessarily reflect their true state of mind!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Or how about here?:

im sure these men never knew they were commiting a crime by indulging in such acts.
Or here?:

all im trying to prove is tht these men might have not been aware of their actions and im certain they never knew such laws existed, if they did they wouldnt have made such remarks on the net. i feel they are just being used as scape goats. y havnt we heard their own sides of the story till date?????????????
im just looking at their cases objectively.
Objectively? You're kidding, right?

they might have been ignorant and oblivious to the consequences of their actions or utterances, thts all im saying.
There you go again, defending them. Why?

Peace
Reply

nevesirth
07-07-2007, 12:04 AM
Originally Posted by Sister-Ameena*
I agree brother.
me too sister!!!!!!!
Reply

nevesirth
07-07-2007, 12:08 AM
Originally Posted by czgibson
Greetings,


Um, how about here, when you said:



Or how about here?:



Or here?:





Objectively? You're kidding, right?



There you go again, defending them. Why?

Peace
alright, if thts the way u see it. its ok. but there is a possibility tht these men were ignorant, i might be wrong though but no one knows!!!!!!!!!!!!
Reply

nevesirth
07-07-2007, 12:12 AM
HEY!!!!!!! i rlly got to watch what i say these days before i get arrested for 'defending convicted online terrorists' dont knw if such a law has been made yet. so ill jst keep quiet. i dont wanna end up like those guys.lol!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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nevesirth
07-07-2007, 12:20 AM
news alert: 'war on terror' has been extended to cyber space. these is going to be characterised by the invasion and occupation of islamic chatrooms forums and websites by cyber toops and police.

but i doubt if anyone in these chatrooms of forums is developing nuclear weapons, maybe some are developing nuclear viruses.LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Reply

Woodrow
07-07-2007, 12:23 AM
The reality is the internet is the world's biggest public address system. If you do not want the whole world to know what you say, simply do not say it.

If what we have to say is not safe enough to say to the world, we probably should just keep quiet and keep our thoughts to ourselves.
Reply

nevesirth
07-07-2007, 12:26 AM
Originally Posted by Woodrow
The reality is the internet is the world's biggest public address system. If you do not want the whole world to know what you say, simply do not say it.

If what we have to say is not safe enough to say to the world, we probably should just keep quiet and keep our thoughts to ourselves.
very wise statement!!!!!!!!!!!
Reply

ranma1/2
07-07-2007, 12:41 AM
Originally Posted by wilberhum
I think you are wrong. Even if no one acts directly based on there tries, it could start people down the path that could results in latter attacks. Even if all they do is instell some hate, they should be stoped.

Or maybe, as a non-Muslim, I belong to the group they wanted to harm.
i disagree, i belive in your freedom of speach. What the issue is their mentality. And you should target that. Take away their right and you are just ignoring the problem. If anything you can make the problem worse.
Reply

snakelegs
07-07-2007, 12:43 AM
Originally Posted by ranma1/2
i disagree, i belive in your freedom of speach. What the issue is their mentality. And you should target that. Take away their right and you are just ignoring the problem. If anything you can make the problem worse.
agreed.
Reply

wilberhum
07-07-2007, 01:34 AM
Originally Posted by ranma1/2
i disagree, i belive in your freedom of speach. What the issue is their mentality. And you should target that. Take away their right and you are just ignoring the problem. If anything you can make the problem worse.
There needs to be limitations on "Free Speech". I needs to be against the law to yell "Fire" in an enclosed room and encouraging others to kill.
Maybe if you were killed by people trying to get to the exit or some one filled with hate you might feel differently.

Well, I guess you wouldn't. You would be dead. :skeleton:
Reply

ranma1/2
07-07-2007, 01:43 AM
Originally Posted by wilberhum
There needs to be limitations on "Free Speech". I needs to be against the law to yell "Fire" in an enclosed room and encouraging others to kill.
Maybe if you were killed by people trying to get to the exit or some one filled with hate you might feel differently.

Well, I guess you wouldn't. You would be dead. :skeleton:
im not talking about limitations like that. i am talking about hate speech. They have the right to hate as much as they want and it is their hate that you should concetrate on and try to change rather than their right to express their opinion.
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NobleMuslimUK
07-07-2007, 01:54 AM
Originally Posted by Sinbad
The guy in the middle look more like a gay rights activist than a muslim.
Hahahahahahahahahahahahaha your comment really cracker me up, cos I didnt notice first time round had to go back and check. Muhahahahahahahahahahahaha
Reply

wilberhum
07-07-2007, 01:55 AM
Originally Posted by ranma1/2
im not talking about limitations like that. i am talking about hate speech. They have the right to hate as much as they want and it is their hate that you should concetrate on and try to change rather than their right to express their opinion.
Well I like hate laws and I would like to see more of them. I see little difference between those men and people soliciting for murder. :raging:

Looks like the courts tend to agree with me. I like that. :thumbs_up :D
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Muezzin
07-07-2007, 12:45 PM
Originally Posted by ranma1/2
im not talking about limitations like that. i am talking about hate speech. They have the right to hate as much as they want and it is their hate that you should concetrate on and try to change rather than their right to express their opinion.
I see what you're saying, but they were charged with incitement to murder rather than simply hate speech.
Reply

jzcasejz
07-07-2007, 12:59 PM
Originally Posted by nevesirth
gotta be careful wht u say in forums and chat rooms so u dont end up like thethese guys>>>>>>>>>http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exer...56B8F34285.htm

i think the sentencing of these men is kinda extreme, wht if they were just acting up and dint rlly mean wht they were saying. their words may not necessarily reflect their true state of mind!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
^ This is why the Brother opened the thread...so JazakAllaah Khayr for telling us Bro. :thumbs_up
Reply

ISLAMASWEENEY
07-07-2007, 05:29 PM
freedom of speech is banned in alot of countries in the world.
Reply

ranma1/2
07-09-2007, 05:33 AM
Originally Posted by Muezzin
I see what you're saying, but they were charged with incitement to murder rather than simply hate speech.
i havent read the story. and once again what needs to be targeted is the problem. Just forcing people to shut up wont stop ignorance and hate.
"it can hurt or aid depending on the case but it wont stop it."
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Andrew
07-09-2007, 09:55 AM
I think the sentances should have been longer. If they were just 'role-playing; or 'having a joke' or whatever, they still deserve to be punished for being so stupid.
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Pynthanomai
07-13-2007, 08:32 AM
Freedom of speech is as impractical as it is idealised. I don't think that even in the US a citizen has complete freedom to utter absolutely anything he or she wants to - or maybe if he or she can say it, yet I doubt he or she can have it printed or published. I understand this pertains to the legality of certain matters - but even so, if we want to get technical about it, the very notion that some things are unpublishable insofar as they breach a law or laws means that complete freedom of speech isn't achieved.
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Haidar_Abbas
07-13-2007, 07:17 PM
Bismillah. Asalaamu Alaikoum. Yeh to wheres the "feedom" of anything in the secular world?... there is no such thing wallahi. only freedom for the mainstream and conformists. the bottom line if youre muslim youre a percieved "threat" it comes down to what they dont understand theyre afraid of..i rest my case ..Asalaamu alaikoum.
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wilberhum
07-13-2007, 07:25 PM
Originally Posted by Haidar_Abbas
Bismillah. Asalaamu Alaikoum. Yeh to wheres the "feedom" of anything in the secular world?... there is no such thing wallahi. only freedom for the mainstream and conformists. the bottom line if youre muslim youre a percieved "threat" it comes down to what they dont understand theyre afraid of..i rest my case ..Asalaamu alaikoum.
Your case rests on a pile of air. :hmm: Most of it hot.
:D
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Haidar_Abbas
07-13-2007, 07:29 PM
Originally Posted by wilberhum
Your case rests on a pile of air. :hmm: Most of it hot.
:D
Bismillah. yah dont have a 700 Club show to watch? stop spitting on me your unclean.
Reply

wilberhum
07-13-2007, 07:34 PM
Originally Posted by Haidar_Abbas
Bismillah. yah dont have a 700 Club show to watch? stop spitting on me your unclean.
When you have been around long enough to read you may understand some things. :uuh: But I doubt it. :D
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Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн
07-13-2007, 07:40 PM
How come I never see them catch people like that who arent Muslim. I remember I ended up at sme forum or website with people doing the same thing as these people got in trouble for. And they sure as hell were not Muslim. Seems to me like they only check for a certain type of people :thumbs_do
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wilberhum
07-13-2007, 07:49 PM
Originally Posted by Jazzy
How come I never see them catch people like that who arent Muslim. I remember I ended up at sme forum or website with people doing the same thing as these people got in trouble for. And they sure as hell were not Muslim. Seems to me like they only check for a certain type of people :thumbs_do
I assume that you notified the police that some one was trying to get people to commit murder.

So what did the police say?
Reply

Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн
07-13-2007, 07:55 PM
No I didnt cuz i didnt even remember the name of that web. i never found it again trying to go back to it. I hope u understand my point tho. Not condoning any of this incase u might thinkso.
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wilberhum
07-13-2007, 08:04 PM
Originally Posted by Jazzy
No I didnt cuz i didnt even remember the name of that web. i never found it again trying to go back to it. I hope u understand my point tho. Not condoning any of this incase u might thinkso.
Why didn't you do it then you saw it happening?
No I don't understand your point.

You see people trying to get people to murder. And you do nothing.
Someone else sees people trying to get people to murder, and they take action and you critics them.

Sounds like you don’t have a problem with people who try to cause murder but you do have a problem with people that try to stop it.
Reply

Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн
07-13-2007, 09:42 PM
^I never said i have a problem with it and i already said that. Not sure why you brushed that off. Anywho if u dont get it, its not my problem. I dont control how your mind works. And it didnt come to mind when i saw that, only cause i knew they said it out of ignorance.
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