Scientolog}

[TheWorldIlove]

Salam alyikum

Can anyone help me debunk this ? I need proof please in an argument with someone else.

Edit -

also the theory that ''aliens created earth etc.''

Thanks

[Strzelecki]

What about the fact it was founded by a Science fiction author?

[Trumble]

What about the fact it was founded by a Science fiction author?

I think all scientologists know that already so it's hardly likely to be effective for 'debunking'! They've almost certainly heard of anything else you are likely to come up with, come to that.

[TheWorldIlove]

What about the fact it was founded by a Science fiction author?

said that but he ''believes'' it

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[wilberhum]

Anyone can claim anything.
The is as much proof supporting the FSM as any thing else.

See my signature for further proof.

[Keltoi]

My only question about scientology would be why so many Hollywood actors and wealthy individuals seem to be drawn to it.

[don532]

said that but he ''believes'' it

Ask him who, or what, created the aliens and where they are from.

A Christian might then say, well I'm sure Jesus has died for them, too. The Muslim might say, maybe they are doing Allah's will too, on their planet.

[Woodrow]

I could be mistaken, but I believe Scientology is just a legal means of giving creditability to Atheism and and Agnostics.

to be honest with the way our Government is set up it is only just to apply the tax laws equaly to all. Any person can start anything they call a religion, agree to follow a few guidelines that give the legal definition of religion and you have a nice tax break. Until Scientology came about a person had no tax benefits that members of organized religion have. such as donating money to a bunch of people because they want to help their neighbor is not tax free. but, if the people doing the collecting belong to an organized religion it becomes a taz deduction.

[wilberhum]

I believe that people believe. There is no limit to what people will believe.

[Trumble]

I could be mistaken, but I believe Scientology is just a legal means of giving creditability to Atheism and and Agnostics.

Hardly. Firstly that comment is grossly unfair to atheists and agnostics.

IMHO the beliefs of Scientology definitely qualify it as a religion by any generally accepted definition of that word, and certainly if using Ninian Smart's more academic approach to defining that term. It is most certainly 'organised'. The fact that everyone here thinks the whole thing is a complete load of tosh concocted by a science fiction writer to extract large amounts of cash from the gullible is rather beside the point.

If you disqualify Scientology as a religion in legal terms (i.e tax breaks, in this case), somebody is making a value judgement as to whether something is a 'religion' or a 'cult', or maybe whether it is an established and 'respectable' region or not. Whoever is making that judgement is highly unlikely to be a believer of the 'religion' concerned. That's fine unless, of course, the 'religion' being dismissed happens to be yours, and unless you wish to risk undeserved prejudice against particular faiths just because they happen to be younger than a millennium or so I think you just have to accept that some will slip through the net.

[ranma1/2]

I could be mistaken, but I believe Scientology is just a legal means of giving creditability to Atheism and and Agnostics.

to be honest with the way our Government is set up it is only just to apply the tax laws equaly to all. Any person can start anything they call a religion, agree to follow a few guidelines that give the legal definition of religion and you have a nice tax break. Until Scientology came about a person had no tax benefits that members of organized religion have. such as donating money to a bunch of people because they want to help their neighbor is not tax free. but, if the people doing the collecting belong to an organized religion it becomes a taz deduction.

lol, nope it has nothing to do with it. its another creation myth "although new"

[Woodrow]

Hardly. Firstly that comment is grossly unfair to atheists and agnostics.

Sorry, I did not mean for to sound as unfair as it apparently came across. My thinking was that is was a fair way for those who do not believe in a God, should be entitled to the same tax breaks if they were doing the same things that meet the definition of religion. For Tax purpose religion is a legal description. I believe it was either in the late 60s or early 70s when Scientology began forming into something that began meeting the criteria of religion. I recall several agnostic groups that I had friends in began calling them selves "religions" so that they could gain religion status for their club houses.

IMHO the beliefs of Scientology definitely qualify it as a religion by any generally accepted definition of that word, and certainly if using Ninian Smart's more academic approach to defining that term. It is most certainly 'organised'. The fact that everyone here thinks the whole thing is a complete load of tosh concocted by a science fiction writer to extract large amounts of cash from the gullible is rather beside the point.

I agree under the US legal definition of religion it meets the definition and if that law is to be applied equaly all organizations that meet the criteria should be have the same rights and responsibilities of any group that meets the definition.

If you disqualify Scientology as a religion in legal terms (i.e tax breaks, in this case), somebody is making a value judgement as to whether something is a 'religion' or a 'cult', or maybe whether it is an established and 'respectable' region or not. Whoever is making that judgement is highly unlikely to be a believer of the 'religion' concerned. That's fine unless, of course, the 'religion' being dismissed happens to be yours, and unless you wish to risk undeserved prejudice against particular faiths just because they happen to be younger than a millennium or so I think you just have to accept that some will slip through the net.

Not dismissing it . I do agree if you dismiss one group that meets the legal definitions you end up dismissing all, including your own .

[ranma1/2]

Sorry, I did not mean for to sound as unfair as it apparently came across. My thinking was that is was a fair way for those who do not believe in a God, should be entitled to the same tax breaks if they were doing the same things that meet the definition of religion. For Tax purpose religion is a legal description. I believe it was either in the late 60s or early 70s when Scientology began forming into something that began meeting the criteria of religion. I recall several agnostic groups that I had friends in began calling them selves "religions" so that they could gain religion status for their club houses.



I agree under the US legal definition of religion it meets the definition and if that law is to be applied equaly all organizations that meet the criteria should be have the same rights and responsibilities of any group that meets the definition.



Not dismissing it . I do agree if you dismiss one group that meets the legal definitions you end up dismissing all, including your own .

heck if i wanted a tax break, why not become a buddhist then?

[queefer]

Germany considers Scientology a tax-dodging cult. I agree.

[ranma1/2]

i myself think all religions should not be tax exempt.

[queefer]

i myself think all religions should not be tax exempt.

I agree.:thumbs_up

[wilberhum]

I agree.:thumbs_up

Triple that!:thumbs_up

[Muezzin]

What you guys fail to realise is that then religion will be supporting a secular state, therefore cheapening its secular status, all for the benefit of a bunch of anti- or non-religious dudes or dudettes hoping to get off on making those darned religious people pay, goshdarnit. Seriously guys, get out more.

About the topic - I refuse to regurgitate the frequent slurs against Scientology until I know enough about the religion to form a valid judgement.

[wilberhum]

What you guys fail to realise is that then religion will be supporting a secular state,

What you fail to realise is that religion is supported by a secular state. :D

About the topic - I refuse to regurgitate the frequent slurs against Scientology until I know enough about the religion to form a valid judgement.

Your wisdom is showing. :thumbs_up

[Muezzin]

What you fail to realise is that religion is supported by a secular state. :D

How so? I should have been more specific; I was referring more to financial support.

Your wisdom is showing. :thumbs_up

Yeah, my dentist tells me that all the time... :p

[barney]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L_w-YWwC1lI

Nice explaination of how nutty scientology is.
It still holds excactly the same credence as any other religion though.

He is however the first Prophet to benifit from Antipsychotic Drugs. Shame those hadnt been invented thousands of years ago.

Also, whilst you are swapping tinfoil hats about ..this one has me in stitches.
http://www.truthism.com/

[czgibson]

Greetings,

My only question about scientology would be why so many Hollywood actors and wealthy individuals seem to be drawn to it.

Scientology explicitly aims to recruit celebrities to its ranks in order to give itself public appeal. Numerous 'Celebrity Centres' around the world were set up for this purpose.

The celebrities get treated far better than the average joe joining the organisation, and they are largely unaware of the hard sell and psychological manipulation that ordinary adherents are put through.

Here is an amazing BBC documentary about Scientology. The reporter totally loses it towards the end after being subjected to a fair amount of harassment from the Church. It's fascinating.

Peace

[Abdul Fattah]

I found this documentary rather helpfull:
http://www.tv-links.co.uk/listings/9/7406

[Isambard]

I try to be open-minded, but Scientology is the only "religion" I can honestly say adherents (those who know the 'upper levels') are morons....or master manipulators.

Woodrow, I dont understand how this is a ploy by atheists and agnostics. For any who know the mythology behind it, or the quotes/history of L. Ron Hubbard and his associates, Scientology is really just a cheap rip-off if Buddhism with terrible, I mean GOD AWFUL mythos (ie. Earth existing for 14billion yrs and life being on it, Xenu, etc.)

Its really nothing more than a ploy for tax breaks.

[Woodrow]

I try to be open-minded, but Scientology is the only "religion" I can honestly say adherents (those who know the 'upper levels') are morons....or master manipulators.

Woodrow, I dont understand how this is a ploy by atheists and agnostics. For any who know the mythology behind it, or the quotes/history of L. Ron Hubbard and his associates, Scientology is really just a cheap rip-off if Buddhism with terrible, I mean GOD AWFUL mythos (ie. Earth existing for 14billion yrs and life being on it, Xenu, etc.)

Its really nothing more than a ploy for tax breaks.

I should have specified that it is a ploy for some athiests and some agnostics. The reason I say Athiests and Agnostics is because I can not see how it would have any attraction for any one who believes in a Religion.

It is simply a utilization of existing tax laws.

[Isambard]

I should have specified that it is a ploy for some athiests and some agnostics. The reason I say Athiests and Agnostics is because I can not see how it would have any attraction for any one who believes in a Religion.

It is simply a utilization of existing tax laws.

As I said, it steals from Buddhism quite a bit then renames the concepts, then claims itself brilliant and original. So those ignorant of the Eastern philosophies it would hold some appeal.

I agree with you that it is a ploy for tax evasion, but its goes agaisnt the spirit of free-speech that many atheists/agnostics hold so dear by creating blocks agaisnt those who speak out agaisnt it (much more effectively than Islamic radicals).

Besides, there are already psedo-religions with which regular non-theists can free themselve from taxes. Ie. Satanism

Scientology is a different entity all together

[Shukri]

Scientology I always found that quit intresting. I guess the people who actuall practice it don't believe in a higher power they just believe in life its self. The man who created this religion is an American author named L. Ron Hubbard. He believed that his relgion is an "applied religious philosophy", but they don't believe in the existence of aliens and aliens creating the earth. Most of them go buy Darwins theory. They believe more in what they call "The Three Parts of Man" which are Mind, Body, and Spirit.

[ranma1/2]

As I said, it steals from Buddhism quite a bit then renames the concepts, then claims itself brilliant and original. So those ignorant of the Eastern philosophies it would hold some appeal.

I agree with you that it is a ploy for tax evasion, but its goes against the spirit of free-speech that many atheists/agnostics hold so dear by creating blocks against those who speak out against it (much more effectively than Islamic radicals).

Besides, there are already psedo-religions with which regular non-theists can free themselve from taxes. Ie. Satanism

Scientology is a different entity all together

i would say many if not most religions borrow or are influenced by other religions or stories.

[Woodrow]

i would say many if not most religions borrow or are influenced by other religions or stories.

Conclusion: There is an original true religion, that those in error are trying to copy.

[ranma1/2]

Conclusion: There is an original true religion, that those in error are trying to copy.

no thats not the conclusion.

some religions maybe original but be no more true.

[Woodrow]

no thats not the conclusion.

some religions maybe original but be no more true.

Relax, That was slightly tongue in cheek. I could not resist the temptation of saying that to you. I was just trying to show that statements do not always elicit the desired response and it is easy for all of us to be misunderstood.

Although I do believe Islam is the original true Religion, I am aware that some, probably many other religions do appear to have started based on other criteria. I do agree that many of todays religions have copied and modified previously existing religions. Scientology appears to be an example of this, copy something existing and modify it to suit a modern purpose.

[Trumble]

No, originally they all started from the same criteria. A search for some sort of meaning to human existence beyond the daily struggle just to survive, and as a means of explaining otherwise inexplainable phenomena.

At least, that is, until some people figured out that religion could be a powerful tool for some or all of making money, obtaining and keeping power over others, and guiding people to behave in the way particular individuals thought they should behave.

[Muezzin]

Getting back to Tom Cruise's religion...

:p

But seriously, I don't know enough about it to make a judgement either way. It thus would be unfair and ignorant of me to buy into all the anti-Scientology hype.

[SirZubair]

I just remembered an episode of South Park..

[czgibson]

Greetings,

they don't believe in the existence of aliens and aliens creating the earth.

Aliens are a crucial part of the belief system of Scientology. However, their teachings on this subject are kept secret until a member has reached the OTIII level. For this reason, junior Scientologists are unaware of it.

Here is a site that explains this. It's very obviously anti-Scientology, but the evidence is pretty clear.

Peace

[Isambard]

There also several quotes from Mr. Hubbard about creating a religion for money and how ppl are willful idiots. He claimed he never said of this when it took hold.

Atheists may argue that religions of today have things that clearly refute the religion, but lets face it. It doesnt compare to scientology where you have literally, him saying its a joke.

[Woodrow]

It does not appear that any members are Scientologists. This does border on back-biting for us to speak of something without anyone present to represent scientology.

Possibly we all disagree with what Scientologists believe. But in fairness this accomplishes nothing and only shows our opinion.