US Threatens Intervention in Pakistan

[snakelegs]

ISLAMABAD, Pakistan — An ambush of a military convoy that killed 17 troops near the Afghan border Wednesday pushed the death toll in a series of attacks to at least 101 Pakistanis in the past five days — and brought President Pervez Musharraf, according to a local newspaper headline, to a "Moment of Truth."

The Bush administration, after publicly demanding that Musharraf rein in militants linked to al Qaida, on Wednesday threatened to launch attacks into Pakistani territory if it sees fit.

"We certainly do not rule out options, and we retain the option especially of striking actionable targets," said White House spokesman Tony Snow. "But it is clearly of the utmost importance to go in there and deal with the problem in the tribal areas."

for complete article:
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/world/story/18140.html

[NobleMuslimUK]

All the zionist United Snakes of America can do is threaten and bark like a dog, it what cowards are good at.

[Bittersteel]

Hmm...warning signals for the Pakistanis.
I wonder how they will react to this.Bush should instead force Musharraf to do the job instead of sending US forces in there.

[wilberhum]

All the zionist United Snakes of America can do is threaten and bark like a dog, it what cowards are good at.

That is one of the dumbest things I have heard all day. :uuh:

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[wilberhum]

Hmm...warning signals for the Pakistanis.
I wonder how they will react to this.Bush should instead force Musharraf to do the job instead of sending US forces in there.

Musharraf is in a mell of a hess. The US surly do something if cross border rades are not stoped. Any more cooperation with the US will increase the dissatisfaction of the people.
I think the phrase is "Damed if you do, Damed if you don't".

[...]

Has the US ever actually minded their own business? Even in Iraq they made all the excuses in the world to 'help' the Iraqis by going into their land against their will and....

May Allah unite the Muslims... amin!

[Skywalker]

Well the US sees it like this: Pakistan...Muslims...al Qa3da...let's do it!

It's not a surpirse. Pakistan was well known to be one of the future targets of the US. Watch them turn it into another Afghanistan or even Iraq! May Allah protect the Muslims...

[Trumble]

Pakistan was well known to be one of the future targets of the US.

"Well known" to who?

[...]

^ To those who have read about the signs of the Day of Judgement, and whose eyes are open and aware...

[MTAFFI]

^ To those who have read about the signs of the Day of Judgement, and whose eyes are open and aware...

do you know that since Jesus Christ (pbuh) was crucified, people have been making this statement? It may seem as though the signs are everywhere, but in my personal opinion, I think we have a very very long time until judgement day

[wilberhum]

A suicide bomb detonated Thursday inside a mosque in violence-wracked northwestern Pakistan, killing at least 12 people, including children and soldiers, and wounding 25, military officials said.

Maybe the US won't have to do anything. Maybe the radicals will just kill each other off.

[...]

That's your personal opinion..the Day of Judegement will come and those that don't have the knowledge won't know... have you heard of retrograde motion?

Back on topic:

threatened to launch attacks into Pakistani territory if it sees fit.

Or rather when they've found an excuse

Maybe the US won't have to do anything. Maybe the radicals will just kill each other off.

It isn't a matter of them having to do anything, it's wanting to do it

[doorster]

All the zionist United Snakes of America can do is threaten and bark like a dog, it what cowards are good at.

"US Threatens Intervention in Pakistan" all thanx to the likes of you!

do your kind -- who are ever so keen to make Pakistanis shaheed -- ever stop to think, in between your incitements, that we should be allowed to decide for ourselves?

[doorster]

A suicide bomb detonated Thursday inside a mosque in violence-wracked northwestern Pakistan, killing at least 12 people, including children and soldiers, and wounding 25, military officials said.

Maybe the US won't have to do anything. Maybe the radicals will just kill each other off.

I suppose that will suite you just fine, since it seems to be your ultimate aim in life (to be rid of Islam).

this post betrays the fact that you don't see the difference between the terrorists and the victims i.e children and soldiers

[Keltoi]

Mushareff has just as much at stake at limiting the influence of radical groups in Pakistan. It would be in his best interest to work with the U.S. in weakening these pockets, especially in the tribal regions. You can bet that if useful intelligence is found about the location of OBL or any of Al-Qaeda's top figureheads, there will be a strike.

[KAding]

Well the US sees it like this: Pakistan...Muslims...al Qa3da...let's do it!

If that were so they would be invading Morocco as well for example. Which they don't. So if we assume you are right that means:
1. people in Morocco are either not Muslim
2. or the US doesn't know people in Morocco are Muslim

Neither seems very likely IMHO :okay:. I mean, we all know the stereotypes that Americans know little of the world, but not that little :D.

It's not a surpirse. Pakistan was well known to be one of the future targets of the US. Watch them turn it into another Afghanistan or even Iraq! May Allah protect the Muslims...

Pakistan is a horribly unstable country, with or without the US pressuring them. It is politically unstable, but more worryingly it is socially unstable with frequent bombings and civil unrest. US threats will certainly not help stabilize it! Neither are the many private militias helping of course. The fact that the government of Pakistan does not actually control its own territory is a deeply troubling fact.

I actually agree with you, I think Pakistan is one of the most volatile Muslim countries out there and IMHO most likely to get in conflict with the US. And it is nuclear armed as well.

[Keltoi]

I think Pakistan is more likely to face future conflict with India and not the U.S.

[MTAFFI]

That's your personal opinion..the Day of Judegement will come and those that don't have the knowledge won't know... have you heard of retrograde motion?

Back on topic: Or rather when they've found an excuse



It isn't a matter of them having to do anything, it's wanting to do it

It is my opinion that judgement day is a long way away, but it is fact that people have been thinking the apocalypse is coming "any day" since Jesus (pbuh) was crucified. It is also my opinion that negative people, who over analyze and look for the worst in everything seem to share this belief.

With that said, I dont think the US is looking for an excuse to do anything, and I dont think the US "wants" to launch any attacks on Pakistan, but as Keltoi stated, if they find prime targets in tribal areas of Pakistan, you can bet your bottom dollar their will be attacks or missions to take these targets out, and it wouldnt matter if they were in Pakistan, Russia or Fiji, the pursuit for them will go wherever they go.

Also I would think the Pakistanis would be happy about this, I wouldnt want OBL or any of his kind wandering around in my neck of the woods.

[doorster]

I actually agree with you, I think Pakistan is one of the most volatile Muslim countries out there and IMHO most likely to get in conflict with the US. And it is nuclear armed as well.

God forbid!

that would be a terrorist dream come true as well as give Hindus of Indira gandi type a boost they'll celebrate the day that happens (she died with this wish unfulfilled)

[wilberhum]

I suppose that will suite you just fine, since it seems to be your ultimate aim in life (to be rid of Islam).

this post betrays the fact that you don't see the difference between the terrorists and the victims i.e children and soldiers

Ah doorster, I would have thought you would have gotten over your sterotipical assumptions about me. :confused:

[doorster]

Ah doorster, I would have thought you would have gotten over your sterotipical assumptions about me. :confused:

Perhaps if you were to make posts longer than one line (clarifying) then I would not get confused as much as I do.

P.S.
I take it back if indeed it was a wrong assumption on my part (but you could help more by making longer posts)

wasalam (and peace)

[wilberhum]

Perhaps if you were to make posts longer than one line (clarifying) then I would not get confused as much as I do.

But most everyone gets my point with my "One Liners". :D
The long posts never seem to work. :(
Now that I think of it, my last "One Liner" to you, communicated fully. :thumbs_up
Well this is the forth line, I'm done with this post.:X

[snakelegs]

well no one can say what will happen next for sure in pakistan. its problems seem insurmountable and they are coming from all sides. what can the people do? what can president musharraf do?
the suicide attacks on the soldiers in the north ("holy war" in revenge for lal masjid) will guarantee u.s. intervention.
NobleMuslimUK, you will kindly not speak so badly about snakes. :mad:

[Skywalker]

mushraf, hes a dirty kaafir, and will burn in hell Inshallah.

This is just wrong, brother. I know that sometimes it's easy to get that urge to say something bad about someone, even if it's the truth, but this is from shaytan. Don't give into it and ask Allah for forgiveness. While you're at it, ask Allah to guide Musharraf, to protect the Muslims of Pakistan, and to give them good leadership and make clear to them the true path of Islam. As long as he says he's Muslim, even prophet Mohammed (pbuh) would not say anything bad do him.

well when it comes to the crunch who will fight the kuffar not cowards like the so called moderate muslims or hypocrites like mushraf or the paki army

It may be true, but again, it's wrong to label anybody anything. You also need to calm down and think. How are the so-called 'moderate Muslims' cowards? Because they don't go into the heart of a populated market and blow themselves up? Fighting the kuffar that are attacking you is important and essential, I agree, but there are ways of doing it wrong and ways of doing it "in style".

Right now, any move a Muslim makes that can be made to look controvesial, the media will make it look controversial...and inhumane. For example, in a another thread I mentioned how the victims of 9/11 will probably enter paradise according to Islam, while the people that killed them will probably go to Hell. One of the non-Muslim members jumped in and said how it was a sick comment! Tell me how that makes sense...yet with the proper twist, it can be made to look bad.

So Muslims these days need to watch carefully what they do so they don't tarnish the image of Islam. Don't you think it's important that we have a good image...or is it ok for everyone to see us as a bunch of Bin Laden's and we get no peace wherever we go? The more we take part in things that are seen as universally good, like charities through people like Islamic Relief or Muslim Aid, or peacefully demonstrating against a government we disagree with like Hezbollah did in Lebanon, the more we would be working to improve the image of Islam internationally while at the same time sticking to the morals and values of Islam, in fact far more so than doing anything crazy like going to blow ourselves up.

I'm not saying that we should never go and fight, no, there are times and situations that call for it, like what happened in Bosnia and the brave mujahideen that went there to fight. In that case they were being invaded, killed, raped, tortured, etc...and it was quite obvious and mutually agreed upon by all that something had to be done. See the difference?

:w:

[Skywalker]

If that were so they would be invading Morocco as well for example. Which they don't. So if we assume you are right that means:
1. people in Morocco are either not Muslim
2. or the US doesn't know people in Morocco are Muslim

What I said was meant to be a "slightly" humorous exaggeration. We know they're not that stupid, but it's possible to see the situation like that from a certain point of view.

As for who knew that America was gonna go into Pakistan...well as soon as they launched their campaigns against Afg. and Iraq, a lot of the people around me, especially those with an interest in politics, started making assumptions as to what America was gonna do. They said it was gonna start with Afghanistan and end with Egypt, taking out Pakistan, Syria, and a couple other countries out along the way. It's true that nobody knows this, but they made assumptions that seem to be unfolding as we speak. ;)

[wilberhum]

For example, in a another thread I mentioned how the victims of 9/11 will probably enter paradise according to Islam, while the people that killed them will probably go to Hell. One of the non-Muslim members jumped in and said how it was a sick comment! Tell me how that makes sense...yet with the proper twist, it can be made to look bad.

:w:

Well, that non-Muslim would be me. :D
And ya, I think it was sick. :grumbling
There was a strong implication that there should be no complaints because the victoms went to heaven. Just like those wonderful administers of the Inqusition. :thumbs_do

[Skywalker]

There was a strong implication that there should be no complaints because the victoms went to heaven.

Not at all, I had no intention to make such an implication, but instead to highlight the inhumanity of the move by Al Qa3da. Read it again.

I also didn't want to mention ur name cuz I don't like making things personal...it's unprofessional.

[NobleMuslimUK]

Right now, any move a Muslim makes that can be made to look controvesial, the media will make it look controversial...and inhumane. For example, in a another thread I mentioned how the victims of 9/11 will probably enter paradise according to Islam, while the people that killed them will probably go to Hell. One of the non-Muslim members jumped in and said how it was a sick comment! Tell me how that makes sense...yet with the proper twist, it can be made to look bad.

:sl: Akhi

I agree with what you said its not the way of RasolAllah SAW to be harsh or use violence, or "by the sword" to spread Al-Islam, rather it is by good nature and peaceful manner to give dawah.

I didnt get your comment about the victims of 9/11 entering paradise, even though they died unjustly, they still died in the state of kufr.

Peace

:w:

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

All I can say is..leave my country alone! Still haven't been able to clean the mess made in Afghanistan, Iraq etc. Why even contemplate going to Pakistan?! :X

[islamirama]

This thread is a joke as are many posts in here. Afghan, iraq, iran, libya, sriya, and pakistan are all on the US crusade list. I said it last year and i said the same thing. You can argue and bicker all you want, or you can keep your eyes open and watch things unfold.

Few things to keep in mind. Experts say these are the initial stages of a world war, so expect WWIII to begin within a decade. Also, look at the pakistanis being arrested for being "terrorists" or "suspects" in UK and some in US. UK and US is full of pakistanis, imagine how many of these pakistanis will arm up if their home country is attacked. Talk about making your own country unsafe by invading others. These pre-emptive strike invasions will hit the crusaders in their own feet soon enough.

[wilberhum]

crusaders

Another with there mind stuck back in the "Dark Ages". :hmm:
But I think you are right on WWIII.

My senero, Radicals take over Pakistan, Nuke India, and off we go.:grumbling

Now that is one I would like to be wrong on.
Not like some, I don't look forward to WWIII. :hiding: :hiding:

[NobleMuslimUK]

how is it fault of theirs if the terrorists cut their lives short thus denying them a chance of being invited to siratulmustaqeem?

And by your logic everyone else knows how long they will live and they could turn to the straight path before dying.

[islamirama]

Another with there mind stuck back in the "Dark Ages". :hmm:

Sad you can't even remember what your dictator says to your people. It is he who claimed he will take his crusade to the Middle East and bring demon-cracy to it. And it is the same fool who says that God talks to him, tell him to go invade other nations and kill millions of innocents.

But I think you are right on WWIII.

My senero, Radicals take over Pakistan, Nuke India, and off we go.:grumbling

your "senero" (spanish?) is wrong because only aggressor bent on world domination here is the monkey in the white house. It is he who has started this war "on terror" and it is he who wants to invade all muslim countries with whatever lame excuse he can sell to his his dumb public.

[wilberhum]

dictator

;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
There is something to be said about people who mis-state facts to promote there agenda.
I guess that makes there agenda false. :hiding: :hiding:

[Skywalker]

Guys, how about we cut the mindless chatter and get back on topic? ...please :D

[Muhammad]

:sl: and Greetings,

Judging by the number of off-topic posts, I believe the thread has reached the end of its course.

Please remember that it is unacceptable to argue in the manner that was occurring here, and that infractions will be given for such behaviour.

If anyone wishes to know more about takfeer, so you may do so from the the following links:

Determining whether someone is a kaafir or a faasiq (faasiq) is not up to us, rather it is up to Allaah, may He be exalted, and His Messenger (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him). This is one of the rulings of sharee’ah that is to be referred to the Qur’aan and Sunnah, so we should be very careful and base our judgement on clear proof. No one may be judged to be a kaafir or faasiq except the one whom the Qur’aan and Sunnah indicate is a kaafir or faasiq.

The basic principle is that the one who appears outwardly to be a Muslim of good character is regarded as still being a Muslim of good character, until it is proven that this is no longer the case by means of evidence that is acceptable in sharee’ah. It is not permissible to take lightly the matter of judging someone to be a kaafir or faasiq, because that involves two very serious matters:

1 – It implies fabricating lies against Allaah with regard to this ruling, and fabricating lies against the one who is being judged.

2 – Falling into that which one accused one’s brother of, if he is free from that.

http://www.islamqa.com/index.php?ref=85102&ln=eng

http://www.islamicboard.com/sects-di...on-kaafir.html

:threadclo