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guyabano
07-26-2007, 03:53 PM
There’s something terribly wrong when an American soldier overseas can’t receive Scriptures in the mail, but a Muslim chaplain can preach freely among al Qaeda and Taliban enemy combatants at Guantanamo Bay.

This is a story of two soldiers, one Christian, one Muslim. It’s a cautionary tale that suggests how religious double standards and politically-driven hypersensitivity threaten not only our troops, but us all.

Five months ago, Jack Moody tried to send his son, Daniel, a CARE package containing a Bible study and other Christian religious materials. Daniel is a 21-year-old Army National Guardsman serving in the Middle East. He had written home requesting spiritual support while he risked his life abroad. The literature his dad packed included Christian comic books.

But when Daniel’s dad approached the post office in the family’s hometown of Lenoir, North Carolina, he was told he would not be allowed to send the items.

According to U.S.P.S. postal bulletin PB22097, section E2, Moody was forbidden from sending "any matter containing religious materials contrary to the Islamic faith or depicting seminude persons, pornographic or sexual items, or non-authorized political materials."

The postal clerk informed Moody that the Christian contents of the package might be considered offensive to some Muslims overseas. The policy was initiated during the first Gulf War.

“My son is in the military, and he's overseas fighting to free this country from tyranny, and to protect our rights and our freedoms, and here our government has a rule on the books that's limited his freedom. I just couldn't believe it,” Moody told the Voice of America news service.

Even more unbelievable was the apathetic reaction of Moody’s elected representatives. According to John Whitehead of the Rutherford Institute, a staunch defender of religious liberty, Sen. Elizabeth Dole’s staff brushed Moody off. So did Dan Gurley, GOP Congressman Cass Ballenger’s chief of staff. According to Moody, Ballenger refused to get involved, insisting that the matter should be left to the courts.

And there’s where Moody’s case—which is included in the devastating new book Persecution, best-selling author David Limbaugh’s searing indictment of anti-Christian intolerance—remains today. The Rutherford Institute filed suit against the U.S. Postmaster General in defense of Moody’s rights to freedom of speech, free exercise of religion, and equal protection under the law. The group’s motion for summary judgment is pending.

Whitehead explains:

“The First Amendment prohibits our government from establishing a religion by favoring one over another. By stating that no material can be mailed if it is contrary to the Islamic religion, the U.S. Post Office has clearly shown deference to Islam above all other religions—and this definitely violates our Constitution.”

Contrast Daniel Moody’s treatment with that of Capt. James Yee. The Muslim convert, who studied in terror-sponsoring Syria and attended an Islamic cultural center run by the terror-friendly Saudi government, was given free rein by the U.S. Army to administer to the souls of al Qaeda and Taliban enemies at Guantanamo Bay.

Yee brought the detainees prayer beads and religious books, facilitated prayer services, and assisted them with Muslim food preparation. And he received lavish, fawning profiles in the “diversity-” and “tolerance-” obsessed mainstream press.

Now he has been charged with sedition, aiding the enemy, spying, espionage and failure to obey a general order. Treason charges may be added. Yee exploited our bent-over-backwards solicitude towards Muslims in the military by allegedly using his access to smuggle out diagrams of the detainees’ cells and lists of the names of the detainees and their interrogators.

More than half of the armed forces’ Muslim chaplains were trained by a terror-linked, Saudi-subsidized institute while military leaders blindly sung the praises of multiculturalism.

Islamist Fifth Columnists are benefiting from the very guarantees of religious freedom being denied to devout Christian soldiers such as Daniel Moody who are risking their lives for the War on Terror overseas.

This dangerous deference to radical Islam—rooted in a cowardly fear of offending—is not only a threat to our soldiers’ constitutionally protected rights, but to our national security.

so far fo the tolerance...

Source
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Keltoi
07-26-2007, 05:31 PM
I like Michelle Malkin, even talked to her once at Texas A&M, but the source you used for this article is demonized by lefties as a white supremacy site. Just wanted to throw that out there before someone else does. I read the site occasionally, and I haven't seen anything blatantly racist or anything inciting hatred, but I've been called a racist before for using this site.
Reply

Muezzin
07-26-2007, 05:35 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Keltoi
I like Michelle Malkin, even talked to her once at Texas A&M, but the source you used for this article is demonized by lefties as a white supremacy site. Just wanted to throw that out there before someone else does. I read the site occasionally, and I haven't seen anything blatantly racist or anything inciting hatred, but I've been called a racist before for using this site.
Really? I did check the site out, and though it had a clear right-wing bent that some might be opposed to (heck, I'm opposed to it), it didn't seem racist or anything.
Reply

Keltoi
07-26-2007, 05:36 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Muezzin
Really? I did check the site out, and though it had a clear right-wing bent that some might be opposed to (heck, I'm opposed to it), it didn't seem racist or anything.
If you read the FAQ, you will notice they address the claim that they are a "white nationalist" group. You're right though, I haven't seen anything that would lead me to call them racists at all.
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Haidar_Abbas
07-26-2007, 05:41 PM
:thumbs_do secular law is FLAWED the policies of the western nations are evidence, theres no need to go on and on you dont like us its obvious jus pipe down man....you make me sleepy :thumbs_do
Reply

Keltoi
07-26-2007, 05:54 PM
On the topic though, I find it sort of confusing. We sent a Bible to my cousin who is now serving in Iraq without difficulty. Perhaps we broke some kind of law? :) In any event, the justification is obviously flawed for preventing Christians from receiving religious items.
Reply

Muezzin
07-26-2007, 06:33 PM
A reminder: This topic is not about secular law as such. Please keep the comments about the story, rather than the general issues it brings up (such as the War on Terror, Guantanamo Bay etc). There are already many threads discussing those.
Reply

Pygoscelis
07-26-2007, 07:03 PM
I must have confused her name with somebody else's. I thought Malkin was just another Coulter.
Reply

جوري
07-26-2007, 07:14 PM
Bible Belt missionaries set out on a 'war for souls' in Iraq
Last Updated: 12:01am GMT 27/12/2003


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.../27/wirq27.xml

American Christian missionaries have declared a "war for souls" in Iraq, telling supporters that the formal end of the US-led occupation next June will close an historic "window of opportunity".

Organising in secrecy, and emphasising their humanitarian aid work, Christian groups are pouring into the country, which is 97 per cent Muslim, bearing Arabic Bibles, videos and religious tracts designed to "save" Muslims from their "false" religion.


Mission from god: Jon Hanna and Jackie Cone after they visited Iraq
The International Mission Board, the missionary arm of the Southern Baptists, is one of those leading the charge.

John Brady, the IMB's head for the Middle East and North Africa, this month appealed to the 16 million members of his church, the largest Protestant denomination in America.

"Southern Baptists have prayed for years that Iraq would somehow be opened to the gospel," his appeal began. That "open door" for Christians may soon close.

"Southern Baptists must understand that there is a war for souls under way in Iraq," his bulletin added, listing Islamic leaders and "pseudo-Christian" groups also flooding Iraq as his chief rivals.

advertisementThe missionaries are mainly evangelicals who reject talk of Muslims and Christians worshipping the same God.

Jerry Vines, former head of the Southern Baptist Convention, has described the Prophet Mohammed as a "demon-obsessed paedophile". Franklin Graham, son of Billy Graham and the head of Samaritan's Purse, a big donor to Iraq, has described Islam as a "very evil and wicked religion".

The missionaries pose a dilemma for President George W Bush. He has reached out to Muslims since September 11, shrugging off criticism from evangelicals to describe Islam as "peaceful". But Christian conservatives are also a key Bush constituency: Franklin Graham delivered the invocation prayer at his presidential inauguration.

The US Agency for International Development has said that the government cannot rein in private charities. "Imagine what the US Congress would say to us," said a spokesman in April.

Jon Hanna, an evangelical from Ohio who has recently returned from Iraq, applied for a new passport to travel there, describing himself as a humanitarian worker. "I was worried the US authorities might try to stop us, might be worried we were going to start a riot with our Bibles."

In Baghdad last month Mr Hanna met two other American missionary teams. One, from Indiana, had shipped in 1.3 million Christian tracts. "A US passport is all you need to get in, until the new Iraqi government takes over. What we thought was a two-year window, originally, has narrowed down to a six month window," said Mr Hanna, an evangelical minister and editor of Connection Magazine, a Christian newspaper in Ohio.

He describes Islam as "false". He cited St John's Gospel, saying: "Who is the liar? It is the man who denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a man is the antichrist."

Mr Hanna concluded: "The Muslim religion is an antichrist religion." Later Mr Hanna asked to retract that choice of words. "Without the reader hearing my voice and looking into my eyes as I made that statement, it would be easy for certain readers to feel personally attacked and be offended," Mr Hanna wrote by email. "That would be unfruitful."

He rejected the suggestion that aid work was a "cover" for missionary work, preferring to call it a "conduit for sharing the gospel of Jesus. Christians are commanded to minister to the hungry, but also to the hunger of the spirit. It can't be separated," he said.

In public, the largest groups put the emphasis on their delivery of food parcels and their medical work. However, their internal fund-raising materials emphasise mission work. One IMB bulletin reported aid workers handing out copies of the New Testament and praying with Muslim recipients. Another bulletin said Iraqis understood "who was bringing the food . . . it was the Christians from America."

Southern Baptists from North Carolina visited Iraq in October to help hand out 45,000 boxes of donated food. One of the team, Jim Walker, told IMB's Urgent News bulletin that he met village children "starved of attention and I could tell some of them have not eaten well. But their biggest need is to know the love of Christ."

Mr Hanna said he encountered friendly curiosity, with noisy crowds gathering to take his group's tracts. "Maybe 10 per cent were hostile." He was one of 21 on his mission including Jackie Cone, 72, a Pentecostalist grandmother from Ohio who said God had told her to join a second mission planned for next year. "I sensed Him telling me to come back in January," she said.

Mrs Cone is confident she made converts in Baghdad. In her hotel she met a Muslim woman on crutches with a leg operation due that day. Mrs Cone knelt on the lobby floor and prayed that surgery would not be required.

"I saw her that evening and she said God had healed her, and she hadn't needed the surgery. She didn't say Allah, she pointed to Heaven and gave God the glory," she said.

Mrs Cone led the Kurdish woman and her brother in prayer, asking Jesus into their hearts. "I'd given them a Bible and a Jesus video in Arabic. I think they think of themselves as Christians now," she said. "They have the Bible and I hope they will grow in grace."

Muslims are hard converts, American missionaries admit. The large organisations have experts trained in refuting Muslim teachings that Jesus is just another prophet.

Before going to Iraq, Mr Hanna studied Christian training manuals and attended a seminar for missionaries to the Arab world.

Mr Hanna concedes his new Iraqi friends were possibly drawn by the novelty of meeting Americans. "But you don't discount that, you use it as an opportunity to tell them about Jesus. Last time we only took 8,000 Arabic Bibles to Iraq. In future missions the goal is one million."
Reply

Thanaa
07-26-2007, 07:30 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by PurestAmbrosia
Bible Belt missionaries set out on a 'war for souls' in Iraq
Last Updated: 12:01am GMT 27/12/2003


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.../27/wirq27.xml

American Christian missionaries have declared a "war for souls" in Iraq, telling supporters that the formal end of the US-led occupation next June will close an historic "window of opportunity".

Organising in secrecy, and emphasising their humanitarian aid work, Christian groups are pouring into the country, which is 97 per cent Muslim, bearing Arabic Bibles, videos and religious tracts designed to "save" Muslims from their "false" religion.


Mission from god: Jon Hanna and Jackie Cone after they visited Iraq
The International Mission Board, the missionary arm of the Southern Baptists, is one of those leading the charge.

John Brady, the IMB's head for the Middle East and North Africa, this month appealed to the 16 million members of his church, the largest Protestant denomination in America.

"Southern Baptists have prayed for years that Iraq would somehow be opened to the gospel," his appeal began. That "open door" for Christians may soon close.

"Southern Baptists must understand that there is a war for souls under way in Iraq," his bulletin added, listing Islamic leaders and "pseudo-Christian" groups also flooding Iraq as his chief rivals.

advertisementThe missionaries are mainly evangelicals who reject talk of Muslims and Christians worshipping the same God.

Jerry Vines, former head of the Southern Baptist Convention, has described the Prophet Mohammed as a "demon-obsessed paedophile". Franklin Graham, son of Billy Graham and the head of Samaritan's Purse, a big donor to Iraq, has described Islam as a "very evil and wicked religion".

The missionaries pose a dilemma for President George W Bush. He has reached out to Muslims since September 11, shrugging off criticism from evangelicals to describe Islam as "peaceful". But Christian conservatives are also a key Bush constituency: Franklin Graham delivered the invocation prayer at his presidential inauguration.

The US Agency for International Development has said that the government cannot rein in private charities. "Imagine what the US Congress would say to us," said a spokesman in April.

Jon Hanna, an evangelical from Ohio who has recently returned from Iraq, applied for a new passport to travel there, describing himself as a humanitarian worker. "I was worried the US authorities might try to stop us, might be worried we were going to start a riot with our Bibles."

In Baghdad last month Mr Hanna met two other American missionary teams. One, from Indiana, had shipped in 1.3 million Christian tracts. "A US passport is all you need to get in, until the new Iraqi government takes over. What we thought was a two-year window, originally, has narrowed down to a six month window," said Mr Hanna, an evangelical minister and editor of Connection Magazine, a Christian newspaper in Ohio.

He describes Islam as "false". He cited St John's Gospel, saying: "Who is the liar? It is the man who denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a man is the antichrist."

Mr Hanna concluded: "The Muslim religion is an antichrist religion." Later Mr Hanna asked to retract that choice of words. "Without the reader hearing my voice and looking into my eyes as I made that statement, it would be easy for certain readers to feel personally attacked and be offended," Mr Hanna wrote by email. "That would be unfruitful."

He rejected the suggestion that aid work was a "cover" for missionary work, preferring to call it a "conduit for sharing the gospel of Jesus. Christians are commanded to minister to the hungry, but also to the hunger of the spirit. It can't be separated," he said.

In public, the largest groups put the emphasis on their delivery of food parcels and their medical work. However, their internal fund-raising materials emphasise mission work. One IMB bulletin reported aid workers handing out copies of the New Testament and praying with Muslim recipients. Another bulletin said Iraqis understood "who was bringing the food . . . it was the Christians from America."

Southern Baptists from North Carolina visited Iraq in October to help hand out 45,000 boxes of donated food. One of the team, Jim Walker, told IMB's Urgent News bulletin that he met village children "starved of attention and I could tell some of them have not eaten well. But their biggest need is to know the love of Christ."

Mr Hanna said he encountered friendly curiosity, with noisy crowds gathering to take his group's tracts. "Maybe 10 per cent were hostile." He was one of 21 on his mission including Jackie Cone, 72, a Pentecostalist grandmother from Ohio who said God had told her to join a second mission planned for next year. "I sensed Him telling me to come back in January," she said.

Mrs Cone is confident she made converts in Baghdad. In her hotel she met a Muslim woman on crutches with a leg operation due that day. Mrs Cone knelt on the lobby floor and prayed that surgery would not be required.

"I saw her that evening and she said God had healed her, and she hadn't needed the surgery. She didn't say Allah, she pointed to Heaven and gave God the glory," she said.

Mrs Cone led the Kurdish woman and her brother in prayer, asking Jesus into their hearts. "I'd given them a Bible and a Jesus video in Arabic. I think they think of themselves as Christians now," she said. "They have the Bible and I hope they will grow in grace."

Muslims are hard converts, American missionaries admit. The large organisations have experts trained in refuting Muslim teachings that Jesus is just another prophet.

Before going to Iraq, Mr Hanna studied Christian training manuals and attended a seminar for missionaries to the Arab world.

Mr Hanna concedes his new Iraqi friends were possibly drawn by the novelty of meeting Americans. "But you don't discount that, you use it as an opportunity to tell them about Jesus. Last time we only took 8,000 Arabic Bibles to Iraq. In future missions the goal is one million."
:grumbling Where do people like this get off? The cheek!
Reply

Cognescenti
07-26-2007, 07:31 PM
Anyone heard if that group of Koreans in Afghnistan has converted anyone yet?

If a non-Muslim in a Muslim country is not permitted to receive a Christian publication in the mail (in order to not offend the predominant group) I do wonder what the fuss is all about if the French if the French want to restric the wearing of the hijab in French public schools.
Reply

Thanaa
07-26-2007, 07:34 PM
I think one of them is dead.
So Im guessing that they havent converted many people.
Considering that to be a Christian today, you need no obvious signs of your faith-even though youre supposed to have them-whereas Muslim women still stick to principles like modest dress, then there is a difference. I dont think its right to say that people cant have bibles at all, but they are two different things.
Reply

Cognescenti
07-26-2007, 07:35 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Thanaa
:grumbling Where do people like this get off? The cheek!
Relax, sister. They are not slicing anyone's head off. I find them (proselytizers) annoying too and I think they are waisting their time, but try to have a little perspective. Just say "no"
Reply

Cognescenti
07-26-2007, 07:39 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Thanaa
I think one of them is dead.
So Im guessing that they havent converted many people.
I suspect you are right. That is my point. They have succeded in making most of the Korean people mad at them and (with the help of the Taliban) hardening "Western" views (if Koreans will allow themselves to be called westerners) toward the Taliban (and likely Islam too).

They aren't going to convert anyone. They are more a danger to themselves and the NATO troops.
Reply

جوري
07-26-2007, 07:46 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Thanaa
:grumbling Where do people like this get off? The cheek!
I know many Iraqis, those of them who are Christian in fact speak Aramaic, to modern day that is their language, many of them have actually pointed out in their churches what the Americans are doing, considering that their brand of Christianity has positively nothing to do with Christianity as the Iraqis conceive it to be...

You'd think a bunch of bible thumpers know more about the religion, than the inhabitants of the birth place of civilization and all Abrahamic religions.. I think somewhere in their warped minds, they think Abraham was from Dublin and Jesus from France?.. It is all too funny, as even the Iraqi Christians are disenchanted with the whole affair..

The whole point of my post was to counterbalance the absurdity of the first, with something other than a Muslim source, because I read of this stuff constantly...
Those who are true Muslims, can never go back to the arms of darkness and inequity... So don't worry about it, either way
:w:
Reply

Cognescenti
07-26-2007, 07:49 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Thanaa
Considering that to be a Christian today, you need no obvious signs of your faith-even though youre supposed to have them-whereas Muslim women still stick to principles like modest dress, then there is a difference. I dont think its right to say that people cant have bibles at all, but they are two different things.
But the French public schools are secular. They have also banned Christian symbols (eg., Crucifixes...I am pretty sure). If you live in France and want a free public education then you play be the rules of the nation in which you live. You want to wear a hijab to school, then go to a private school.

BTW..this limitation on items to be mailed was voluntarily imposed by an arm of the US governement in order to show cultural sensitivity. For a nation which is alleged to be conducting a War on Islam it seems a rather odd way to go about it. :p I think the author's point was the apparent double standard vis a vis Islamic sensisbilities.
Reply

guyabano
07-26-2007, 08:33 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by PurestAmbrosia
...than the inhabitants of the birth place of civilization
ermm, pardon me, but the birthplace of civilisation is the african savanna

The most widely accepted view among current anthropologists is that Homo sapiens originated in the African savanna around 200,000 BP (Before Present), descending from Homo erectus, had colonized Eurasia and Oceania by 40,000 BP, and finally colonized the Americas approximately 10,000 years ago.[15] They displaced Homo neanderthalensis and other species descended from Homo erectus (which had colonized Eurasia as early as 2 million years ago) through more successful reproduction and competition for resources.
out of Wikipedia


And guess what, I also read constantly loads of crap on this forum. So we have something in common.
Reply

جوري
07-26-2007, 09:03 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by guyabano
ermm, pardon me, but the birthplace of civilisation is the african savannaout of Wikipedia

I believe us to have different renditions of what 'civilization' is, this isn't a topic of evolution so let's not go off on tangents! Also, here is a little something out of a .edu .. quoting wiki would leave me feeling inadequate .. but if it tickles your fancy, then by all means...
http://mesopotamia.lib.uchicago.edu/
Mesopotamia, an ancient Greek term meaning "the land between rivers," is considered to be the cradle of civilization because this is where we find the origins of agriculture, written language, and cities.Chosen from the Mesopotamian collection of the Oriental Institute Museum of the University of Chicago, this website tells the story of ancient Mesopotamia now present-day Iraq —

And guess what, I also read constantly loads of crap on this forum. So we have something in common.
Indeed.. do two craps make a topic ineffective by way of a counterbalance? Or are we speaking purely from opinion?
peace!
Reply

snakelegs
07-27-2007, 01:00 AM
bomb 'em, destroy their country, create anarchy and then practice
cultural sensitivity.
most touching indeed. i hope they appreciate our consideration.
Reply

جوري
07-27-2007, 01:29 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by snakelegs
bomb 'em, destroy their country, create anarchy and then practice
cultural sensitivity.
most touching indeed. i hope they appreciate our consideration.
Peace Snake..
tell me about it-- I find it difficult sometimes invoking any sort of sympathy, understanding, or even ability to follow purpose and intent to some of these posts... what a perverse and abnormal way to deflect from the revolting actions of a country that supposedly holds itself to highest moral conduct...
Invade
kill
rape and publish the photos for voyeuristic pleasures
ravage
steal
spread false propaganda
spread sanctimonious BS a la mode of bible thumpers, and then have unmitigated effrontery to publish an article of how one poor soldier can't read his bible .. how loathsome!.. I am sure the missionaries aren't too stingy to part with one copy when they get a minute off from saving Iraqis from their false religion!
peace!
Reply

Abdul Fattah
07-27-2007, 01:41 AM
To quote one of the songs of team america:
"Freedom isn't free, it takes guys like you and me"
(can you see the sarcasm dripping off?)
Maybe this guy should reevaluate what he's doing there in the first place.
Reply

Keltoi
07-27-2007, 01:49 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Abdul Fattah
To quote one of the songs of team america:
"Freedom isn't free, it takes guys like you and me"
(can you see the sarcasm dripping off?)
Maybe this guy should reevaluate what he's doing there in the first place.
Soldiers don't "reevaluate" what they are doing in a place, they have a job and they do it. Their pay stinks, they have been there longer than they should, and they haven't seen their families. It is preposterous that in the name of cultural sensitivity some aren't allowed to be sent a Bible.
Reply

The_Prince
07-27-2007, 03:30 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by guyabano
There’s something terribly wrong when an American soldier overseas can’t receive Scriptures in the mail, but a Muslim chaplain can preach freely among al Qaeda and Taliban enemy combatants at Guantanamo Bay.

This is a story of two soldiers, one Christian, one Muslim. It’s a cautionary tale that suggests how religious double standards and politically-driven hypersensitivity threaten not only our troops, but us all.

Five months ago, Jack Moody tried to send his son, Daniel, a CARE package containing a Bible study and other Christian religious materials. Daniel is a 21-year-old Army National Guardsman serving in the Middle East. He had written home requesting spiritual support while he risked his life abroad. The literature his dad packed included Christian comic books.

But when Daniel’s dad approached the post office in the family’s hometown of Lenoir, North Carolina, he was told he would not be allowed to send the items.

According to U.S.P.S. postal bulletin PB22097, section E2, Moody was forbidden from sending "any matter containing religious materials contrary to the Islamic faith or depicting seminude persons, pornographic or sexual items, or non-authorized political materials."

The postal clerk informed Moody that the Christian contents of the package might be considered offensive to some Muslims overseas. The policy was initiated during the first Gulf War.

“My son is in the military, and he's overseas fighting to free this country from tyranny, and to protect our rights and our freedoms, and here our government has a rule on the books that's limited his freedom. I just couldn't believe it,” Moody told the Voice of America news service.

Even more unbelievable was the apathetic reaction of Moody’s elected representatives. According to John Whitehead of the Rutherford Institute, a staunch defender of religious liberty, Sen. Elizabeth Dole’s staff brushed Moody off. So did Dan Gurley, GOP Congressman Cass Ballenger’s chief of staff. According to Moody, Ballenger refused to get involved, insisting that the matter should be left to the courts.

And there’s where Moody’s case—which is included in the devastating new book Persecution, best-selling author David Limbaugh’s searing indictment of anti-Christian intolerance—remains today. The Rutherford Institute filed suit against the U.S. Postmaster General in defense of Moody’s rights to freedom of speech, free exercise of religion, and equal protection under the law. The group’s motion for summary judgment is pending.

Whitehead explains:

“The First Amendment prohibits our government from establishing a religion by favoring one over another. By stating that no material can be mailed if it is contrary to the Islamic religion, the U.S. Post Office has clearly shown deference to Islam above all other religions—and this definitely violates our Constitution.”

Contrast Daniel Moody’s treatment with that of Capt. James Yee. The Muslim convert, who studied in terror-sponsoring Syria and attended an Islamic cultural center run by the terror-friendly Saudi government, was given free rein by the U.S. Army to administer to the souls of al Qaeda and Taliban enemies at Guantanamo Bay.

Yee brought the detainees prayer beads and religious books, facilitated prayer services, and assisted them with Muslim food preparation. And he received lavish, fawning profiles in the “diversity-” and “tolerance-” obsessed mainstream press.

Now he has been charged with sedition, aiding the enemy, spying, espionage and failure to obey a general order. Treason charges may be added. Yee exploited our bent-over-backwards solicitude towards Muslims in the military by allegedly using his access to smuggle out diagrams of the detainees’ cells and lists of the names of the detainees and their interrogators.

More than half of the armed forces’ Muslim chaplains were trained by a terror-linked, Saudi-subsidized institute while military leaders blindly sung the praises of multiculturalism.

Islamist Fifth Columnists are benefiting from the very guarantees of religious freedom being denied to devout Christian soldiers such as Daniel Moody who are risking their lives for the War on Terror overseas.

This dangerous deference to radical Islam—rooted in a cowardly fear of offending—is not only a threat to our soldiers’ constitutionally protected rights, but to our national security.

so far fo the tolerance...

Source
too bad too sad, if you dont like it you can leave Iraq and afghanistan, two countries you were never invited to go to in the the first place.

how funny these christians are, they are bombing these 2 muslim countries, illegaly invaded them, raping their women, torturing, blowing houses up and doing every other crime then they complain oh we cant get a bible inside! oh these bad muzlims! their double standards never seem to end, instead of worrying about getting a bible which has several parts of it banned in south africa and hong kong you should be more concerned about ending your illegal war against muslims.

if it was up to me all christian material would be banned from Islamic society's since i dont want your trash comming in here, hey that may sound offensive but no different to what that pastor said about Islam, i didnt see you christian folks complaining when your pastors and missionaries call Islam evil and several other insulting names. this is our country, our land, we dont want your soldiers, and we dont want your faith, you dont like that? again too bad, you dont rule the world, i repeat we dontttttttttt want your bibles and christian works in our countries. now you may object saying hey but we let yours in our countries, well i dont live in your countries and the vast majority of muslims dont neither, hence that would simply be futile plus your society is secular not christian right? so it wouldnt be a problem if we banned all christian material while you didnt since our society are partially Islamic while yours have nothing to do with christianity its all about secularism :)

secondly your US constituion which you quoted only applies to your country, not ours, so thats another straw man right there, lol you see folks didnt you get that part? these christians are now trying to force their americanizm on us! their trying to apply their own laws and rules abroad on muslim countries! again all your american rules ammendments constitution only apply to your own borders, so if you wanna mail christian material to a muslim country but that muslim country doesnt want none of your evil blasphemy then thats the way it is and thats the rule of law in the muslim country, hence your constitution means nothing in this case since you dont rule our countries with your rule of law.

and i agree with the title of the thread, indeed shut up you christian soldier! you whine about not being able to get your porn into the country while your killing civillians on a daily basis and occupying a country that doesnt even want you there!

christians will never learn....
Reply

Muezzin
07-27-2007, 03:34 PM
Thing is, according to the article, the organs of the United States itself are not letting Bibles through (which is insane, considering the amount of Christians in the United States military).

Any efforts to place the blame on Muslims in this case is a deflection.
Reply

Keltoi
07-27-2007, 03:35 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by The_Prince
too bad too sad, if you dont like it you can leave Iraq and afghanistan, two countries you were never invited to go to in the the first place.

how funny these christians are, they are bombing these 2 muslim countries, illegaly invaded them, raping their women, torturing, blowing houses up and doing every other crime then they complain oh we cant get a bible inside! oh these bad muzlims! their double standards never seem to end, instead of worrying about getting a bible which has several parts of it banned in south africa and hong kong you should be more concerned about ending your illegal war against muslims.

if it was up to me all christian material would be banned from Islamic society's since i dont want your trash comming in here, hey that may sound offensive but no different to what that pastor said about Islam, i didnt see you christian folks complaining when your pastors and missionaries call Islam evil and several other insulting names. this is our country, our land, we dont want your soldiers, and we dont want your faith, you dont like that? again too bad, you dont rule the world, i repeat we dontttttttttt want your bibles and christian works in our countries. now you may object saying hey but we let yours in our countries, well i dont live in your countries and the vast majority of muslims dont neither, hence that would simply be futile plus your society is secular not christian right? so it wouldnt be a problem if we banned all christian material while you didnt since our society are partially Islamic while yours have nothing to do with christianity its all about secularism :)

secondly your US constituion which you quoted only applies to your country, not ours, so thats another straw man right there, lol you see folks didnt you get that part? these christians are now trying to force their americanizm on us! their trying to apply their own laws and rules abroad on muslim countries! again all your american rules ammendments constitution only apply to your own borders, so if you wanna mail christian material to a muslim country but that muslim country doesnt want none of your evil blasphemy then thats the way it is and thats the rule of law in the muslim country, hence your constitution means nothing in this case since you dont rule our countries with your rule of law.

and i agree with the title of the thread, indeed shut up you christian soldier! you whine about not being able to get your porn into the country while your killing civillians on a daily basis and occupying a country that doesnt even want you there!

christians will never learn....
Very enlightening tirade, but it had nothing to do with the point. These are American citizens we are talking about. The U.S. Constitution does indeed apply to them. The military handles the mail service, so there is no reason Iraqis should even enter into the equation. There is a Christian minority in Iraq, and they have Bibles, so this shouldn't even be an issue. I think a well meaning desk officer went a little too far on this one.
Reply

The_Prince
07-27-2007, 03:36 PM
actually i take back what i said, i wouldnt ban bibles here, since i know good arab christians who arent idiots and racists like the western ones, you would be amazed at how different they are then those fake christians in the west.
Reply

Keltoi
07-27-2007, 03:37 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Muezzin
Thing is, according to the article, the organs of the United States itself are not letting Bibles through (which is insane, considering the amount of Christians in the United States military).

Any efforts to place the blame on Muslims in this case is a deflection.
Right, this has nothing to do with Muslims whatsoever. This is due to military PR officers who need to get a clue.
Reply

Muezzin
07-27-2007, 03:38 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by The_Prince
actually i take back what i said, i wouldnt ban bibles here, since i know good arab christians who arent idiots and racists like the western ones, you would be amazed at how different they are then those fake christians in the west.
Can we have less of these kind of 'put-down' posts please? They tend to get deleted, whether the targets are Muslims, Christians, Shambo monks or whatever.
Reply

The_Prince
07-27-2007, 03:50 PM
you know i find it really interesting, how do those missionaries expect to convert people when they have attacked their way of life so badly, calling it evil, satanic and insulting their prophet, seriously how can they later sit down in their homes with these people looking them eye to eye.

this really does tell you something more about these people's character and their mental state, which isnt too good. disgusting and having no honor is what comes to my mind when i think of it.

you christians should start sorting your missionary boys out before you wanna nag about your bibles not being able to be sent, start learning something called respect since its obvious you dont have any, ah yes Jesus loves us yes yes.......
Reply

Muezzin
07-27-2007, 03:51 PM
This thread isn't about missionaries. If you wish to discuss them, please do so in either an existing thread or a new one. :)
Reply

Cognescenti
07-27-2007, 08:01 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by The_Prince
too bad too sad, if you dont like it you can leave Iraq and afghanistan, two countries you were never invited to go to in the the first place.

how funny these christians are, they are bombing these 2 muslim countries, illegaly invaded them, raping their women, torturing, blowing houses up and doing every other crime then they complain oh we cant get a bible inside! oh these bad muzlims! their double standards never seem to end, instead of worrying about getting a bible which has several parts of it banned in south africa and hong kong you should be more concerned about ending your illegal war against muslims.

if it was up to me all christian material would be banned from Islamic society's since i dont want your trash comming in here, hey that may sound offensive but no different to what that pastor said about Islam, i didnt see you christian folks complaining when your pastors and missionaries call Islam evil and several other insulting names. this is our country, our land, we dont want your soldiers, and we dont want your faith, you dont like that? again too bad, you dont rule the world, i repeat we dontttttttttt want your bibles and christian works in our countries. now you may object saying hey but we let yours in our countries, well i dont live in your countries and the vast majority of muslims dont neither, hence that would simply be futile plus your society is secular not christian right? so it wouldnt be a problem if we banned all christian material while you didnt since our society are partially Islamic while yours have nothing to do with christianity its all about secularism :)

secondly your US constituion which you quoted only applies to your country, not ours, so thats another straw man right there, lol you see folks didnt you get that part? these christians are now trying to force their americanizm on us! their trying to apply their own laws and rules abroad on muslim countries! again all your american rules ammendments constitution only apply to your own borders, so if you wanna mail christian material to a muslim country but that muslim country doesnt want none of your evil blasphemy then thats the way it is and thats the rule of law in the muslim country, hence your constitution means nothing in this case since you dont rule our countries with your rule of law.

and i agree with the title of the thread, indeed shut up you christian soldier! you whine about not being able to get your porn into the country while your killing civillians on a daily basis and occupying a country that doesnt even want you there!

christians will never learn....

My, my, my. The poster boy for Isalmic tolerance. Of course, let the Brits raise the issue of a chador in court or the French the hijab in a public school and the fit really hits the Shan.


Could someone explain to me again the benevolent garden spot of Quran-inspired tolerance and empathy that Christians and Jews are to expect when living in an Islamic state? Or perhaps one of the elders could explain it to some of the younger Muslim members of the forum. There seems to be a generational roadblock of some sort.
Reply

Cognescenti
07-27-2007, 08:07 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by The_Prince
you know i find it really interesting, how do those missionaries expect to convert people when they have attacked their way of life so badly, calling it evil, satanic and insulting their prophet, seriously how can they later sit down in their homes with these people looking them eye to eye.

this really does tell you something more about these people's character and their mental state, which isnt too good. disgusting and having no honor is what comes to my mind when i think of it.

you christians should start sorting your missionary boys out before you wanna nag about your bibles not being able to be sent, start learning something called respect since its obvious you dont have any, ah yes Jesus loves us yes yes.......
Dood....there is no United States Dept. of Missionaries. They don't ask permission. Do get back to us when they start hijacking airliners or sawing peoples heads off, won't you?
Reply

UmmSqueakster
07-27-2007, 09:20 PM
Man, the article in the OP is old. Is there anything more recent on this topic?

I can say for certain that there definately is something more recent about Br. James Yee. Hmm, all criminal charges dropped. Check out his book if you have a chance, it's a pretty easy read, very eye opening.
Reply

Cognescenti
07-27-2007, 10:32 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Janaan
Man, the article in the OP is old. Is there anything more recent on this topic?

I can say for certain that there definately is something more recent about Br. James Yee. Hmm, all criminal charges dropped. Check out his book if you have a chance, it's a pretty easy read, very eye opening.
I have to admit, it does look like the guy was treated very shabily. I wonder how many other officers could be charged with adultery if they were scrutinized that thoroughly?
Reply

Abdul Fattah
07-27-2007, 11:22 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Keltoi
Soldiers don't "reevaluate" what they are doing in a place, they have a job and they do it. Their pay stinks, they have been there longer than they should, and they haven't seen their families. It is preposterous that in the name of cultural sensitivity some aren't allowed to be sent a Bible.
They're not supposed to reevaluate, but that doesn't mean that they can't. I really can't feel any empathy or pity for them. They should have thought about this before they enrolled into the United States of hypocrisy army. They turned an entire country into a living hell, and now they're gonna complain because they can't get a bible sent to them? Whatever man.
Reply

wilberhum
07-27-2007, 11:27 PM
They turned an entire country into a living hell
Right :confused: Each and every service man enlisted so he could turn an entire country into a living hell. :hiding:
All Americans are so Evil. :confused: :confused:
Reply

snakelegs
07-28-2007, 12:45 AM
does anyone know if the story in the OP is even true? i have seen it on no other source and this source doesn't look all that credible. (having only given it a brief glance and i haven't checked with the post office either).
it is a bit hard to believe that suddenly we care so much about the survivors' sensitivity and if true, exceedingly ironic.
Reply

Keltoi
07-28-2007, 12:50 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by snakelegs
does anyone know if the story in the OP is even true? i have seen it on no other source and this source doesn't look all that credible. (having only given it a brief glance and i haven't checked with the post office either).
it is a bit hard to believe that suddenly we care so much about the survivors' sensitivity and if true, exceedingly ironic.
All I know is that we sent my cousin a Bible without any difficulty, and that was about three months ago.
Reply

barney
07-28-2007, 12:52 AM
If they have converted anyone...that person too is dead. So it depends wether your talking about posthumous conversions!
Reply

snakelegs
07-28-2007, 01:04 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Keltoi
All I know is that we sent my cousin a Bible without any difficulty, and that was about three months ago.
it smells like one of those stories created just to sow anger and hate.
Reply

The_Prince
07-28-2007, 02:38 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Cognescenti
My, my, my. The poster boy for Isalmic tolerance. Of course, let the Brits raise the issue of a chador in court or the French the hijab in a public school and the fit really hits the Shan.


Could someone explain to me again the benevolent garden spot of Quran-inspired tolerance and empathy that Christians and Jews are to expect when living in an Islamic state? Or perhaps one of the elders could explain it to some of the younger Muslim members of the forum. There seems to be a generational roadblock of some sort.
im not the poster boy for tolerance, :) im 100% opposite and i admit it, no need for me to be diplomatic its best to be honest and express how i truly feel.

and i dont live in the west, i inhabit the muslim world :) so u can do whatever u like to muslims in the west it just further backs my opinion and why people should think like me and implement saudi style rules on other faiths!
Reply

Abdul Fattah
07-29-2007, 01:35 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by wilberhum
Right :confused: Each and every service man enlisted so he could turn an entire country into a living hell. :hiding:
All Americans are so Evil. :confused: :confused:
I didn't say all americans, and I didn't say all enlisted soldiers, but all the soldiers who got sent there and chose to follow orders contributed yes. what do you think they've been doing there getting a tan and playing sports?
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Keltoi
07-29-2007, 05:39 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Abdul Fattah
I didn't say all americans, and I didn't say all enlisted soldiers, but all the soldiers who got sent there and chose to follow orders contributed yes. what do you think they've been doing there getting a tan and playing sports?
In case you haven't noticed, American troops are hardly the greatest threat to Iraqis right now. Yes, the invasion laid the groundwork for this hell called Iraq, but it isn't U.S. troops butchering Iraqis, which I think you know very well.
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wilberhum
07-29-2007, 06:55 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Abdul Fattah
I didn't say all americans, and I didn't say all enlisted soldiers, but all the soldiers who got sent there and chose to follow orders contributed yes. what do you think they've been doing there getting a tan and playing sports?
And every service man is entitled to make his own decision when the general says "Charge". Right ya, do. Obviously you have no clue to what is required when you enlist.
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جوري
07-29-2007, 04:04 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by wilberhum
Obviously you have no clue to what is required when you enlist.
actually quite easy to enlist.. I almost enlisted when I was done with high school... went introduced myself had a chat with a nice man, took an English and math exam-- the gent. there told me I had the highest score ever recorded in both and they weren't about to let me go with a big smile on his face..I told him I'd have to think about it some more and discuss it with the fam. that I was just being curious at this stage and not ready for commitments... Anyhow he gave me some parting army gifts in the form of a pen and a couple of shirts, and I am oh oh oh so grateful I left before signing my life away.. though they did harass by phone for a while after... that is how easy it is to hand your life to the devil and go get your head chopped off somewhere, because someone filled your head with freedom fries and spreading of 'democracy' to uncivilized people who are in desperate need for 711 and mcdies.. really no mystery!.....
peace!
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Woodrow
07-29-2007, 04:24 PM
I should have checked this out earlier. The PB22097 quoted in the opening topic does not cover anything about Bibles. Here is PB22097.

PB 22097. 01/23/2003, Page 93-94 Notice
Processing Refund Requests for Unused Meter Stamps,
Source: http://search.usps.com/search?site=%...=16&search.y=7


This appears to be an unproven story with no verifiable source.

:threadclo
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