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SATalha
07-29-2007, 01:00 AM
Ok we all know that this forum has many members all over the Globe and we also are fortunate to have non-Muslims hear as well. What i want to know is yur opinion of Islam and how you felt about Islam before the forum and how you feel now? Has this forum helped you understand Islam better? Has it removed any misconceptions? Or has your opinion of Islam become worse?

Inshallah use this thread to post your comments and opinions. I know we have some intellectual non-Muslims out there so contructive post's please. And most importantly be honest, if your opinion of Islam is realy low than dont be afraid to say so.
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butterflylady
07-29-2007, 02:25 AM
I actually have a pretty good view of the religion, but I find this site off-putting because I see a fair amount of over the top hostility towards America, Christians, Hindus and Jews. Yes, I know that those groups can also have over the top hostility towards Muslims, but not to this extent.

For example I know that Jewish people did not blow up the World Trade Center, but I see many on this forum claiming that that is what happened. Really.

By the way I have had 21 years exposure to Muslim culture (three while living in a Muslim country), so I can speak with experience.
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Skywalker
07-29-2007, 03:22 AM
This is a good topic SATalha, mashaa-Allah. I've always wondered about that myself and am quite interested in hearing what the non-Muslim members of this forum think about the issue.

:w:
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snakelegs
07-29-2007, 03:41 AM
hi,
i did not have an unfavourable opinion of islam before i came here. i've been interested in islam since about '99, but on this forum i have learned that islam (like judaism) is a religion for both the intellect and the spirit. it has plenty of food for the intellect to keep a person busy their whole life and (again, like judaism) it causes the muslim to be conscious of god as he goes through daily life.
i don't like everything i've learned here of course, but i wouldn't expect to either.
also, you get a much better picture of reality "on the ground" by reading what people say is actually going on in their daily lives - an example that comes to mind was how right after the recent glasgow incident, some one shared how fast it went from being pretty safe to be muslim in scotland to no longer feeling safe, now there was hateful graffiti all over, etc. it sort of "brings it home" to read stuff like that, gives a new dimension to the realities behind the headlines, touches you on a human level.
in general, my perception of islam really hasn't changed - i've just learned a lot more about it than i knew before.
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Keltoi
07-29-2007, 05:58 AM
I guess I would say my feelings about Islam as a religion are good. Honestly though, I am often disturbed by the actions and rhetoric of many Muslims. Not necessarily on this forum, although there are few individuals who I don't believe portray Islam in a positive light here. Of course the Christian forum I used to frequent had many more bad apples than this one. What I mean is that if I were only to judge Muslims and Islam by the actions and words of extremists, who seem to get the most exposure in both Western and Muslim media, I would have a skewed understanding of what true Muslims really stand for. I would be lying if I said I haven't been negatively affected by many atrocities committed in the name of Islam lately, but this forum keeps me from generalizing Muslims in any way, so it must be a good thing.
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SATalha
07-29-2007, 06:23 AM
Wow some very intresting points, iam glad you guys shared them. The sad thing is i find especialy in England people are ignorant.... I gues that is understandble bcoz they read The Sun. Few of my collegues recieve their only reading from that paper. Anyway keep posting.
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wilberhum
07-29-2007, 07:24 AM
What i want to know is yur opinion of Islam
One of the reasons I’m agnostic is because I see negative aspects in all religions. And I defiantly find negative aspects in Islam.
how you felt about Islam before the forum and how you feel now?
I spent about two years on another form. I left that form because of all the negativity and hatred that was frequently expressed. I found the support for what I conceder terrorism quite alarming. Surprisingly, I find this form to have all the same issues. And yes, I do judge Islam by its followers as I do Christianity by its followers.
Has this forum helped you understand Islam better?
Yes, but that is not necessarily a positive impact.
Has it removed any misconceptions?
Yes, I had some concept of unity within Islam. I’m now convinced that are a thousand different concepts of the religion by its followers.
Or has your opinion of Islam become worse?
Worse.
if your opinion of Islam is realy low than dont be afraid to say so.
I’m not afraid to express my opinion. If I was, I would have nothing to do with this form, but I also expect many venomous attacks.
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SATalha
07-29-2007, 11:43 AM
Wow Wilber a very intresting post. It seems you still have issues with Islam, Muslims and Religion.

Let me ask you another question:

What have you learnt from this forum about Islam, that has improved your life in anyway? (it could be anything)
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wilberhum
07-29-2007, 08:33 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by SATalha
Wow Wilber a very intresting post. It seems you still have issues with Islam, Muslims and Religion.

Let me ask you another question:

What have you learnt from this forum about Islam, that has improved your life in anyway? (it could be anything)
I participate on this forum because I find a lot of different perspectives about a Varity of things.
I find it interesting and rewarding to hear what others think about issues.
I assume, like others, I enjoy expressing my opinion.
All of this broadens our experiences and knowledge and probably makes us better and more understanding humans.
In that way it has improved my life. But I assume that you were asking if any think I have learned about Islam has improved my life. To that the answer would be no, except the expansion of knowledge about others.
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جوري
07-29-2007, 08:56 PM


here comes Venomous attack now..
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SATalha
07-29-2007, 09:51 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by wilberhum
I participate on this forum because I find a lot of different perspectives about a Varity of things.
I find it interesting and rewarding to hear what others think about issues.
I assume, like others, I enjoy expressing my opinion.
All of this broadens our experiences and knowledge and probably makes us better and more understanding humans.
In that way it has improved my life. But I assume that you were asking if any think I have learned about Islam has improved my life. To that the answer would be no, except the expansion of knowledge about others.

Ok thats nice to know. Have you learnt anything about the Islamic beliefs? What we do in our daily lives? Our general aims in life? Our Beloved Messenger (PBUH)? Also the teachings that he told us to carry out?

(by the way if any of our other Non-Muslim friends want to chip in and have a say please do, you will be helping me dearly)
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wilberhum
07-30-2007, 03:53 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by SATalha
Ok thats nice to know. Have you learnt anything about the Islamic beliefs? What we do in our daily lives? Our general aims in life? Our Beloved Messenger (PBUH)? Also the teachings that he told us to carry out?

(by the way if any of our other Non-Muslim friends want to chip in and have a say please do, you will be helping me dearly)
Of course. It would be almost impossible not to. Besides, I find those things interesting.

I hope that this exchange is not going to end in another conversion attempt.
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Gator
07-30-2007, 07:39 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by SATalha
What i want to know is yur opinion of Islam and how you felt about Islam before the forum and how you feel now? Has this forum helped you understand Islam better? Has it removed any misconceptions? Or has your opinion of Islam become worse?
I really didn't have an opinion on Islam as I see it as one of the major religions. Its kind of like Christianity, in that its not the religion, but rather the person practicing it, of whom I have an opinion.

My being on this forum has probably exposed me to more of the range of muslims (from 'reform' to 'orthodox') and the input from the different cultures in different geographies.

I've learned a lot more about the outlying works and scholarly writings.
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Skywalker
07-30-2007, 08:01 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by wilber
I hope that this exchange is not going to end in another conversion attempt.
You're gonna become Muslim and that's that. This is non-negotiable. Any refusal to do so will result in you getting banned from this forum. You have been warned...
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wilberhum
07-30-2007, 08:12 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Skywalker
You're gonna become Muslim and that's that. This is non-negotiable. Any refusal to do so will result in you getting banned from this forum. You have been warned...
That would make many happy. :D :giggling: (The getting banned part)
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MaiCarInMtl
07-30-2007, 08:25 PM
I've only been here for a few weeks and decided to join after about a year of fairly intensive internet research about the religion itself.

Of course, one will encounter possible negative vieewpoints (or one that are different from your own) when reading anything anywhere, but I find the chances of that increase with joining forums.

That being said, I find this forum is more open to variying opinions than some others, I find the people here are more positive than on many other boards I go to (be it religious or other).

I haven't learnt much new things about the basics of the religion, but I've learnt more about the importance of the religion to the people who practice it. The problem with that is that often people practice a religion differently and are also products of different socio-cultural influences (which might change the messages they interpret about their religion). This can cause some problems(and frictions).

I know it is hard to seperate the religion itself from it's practitioners (one of the many reasons why I have lost faith in the religion I was born into is due to the behaviour of the people who practice it, and moreso the attitude, actions and behaviours of the leaders one is told to look up to as the closest link to God on earth). It's a long story. I have to keep reminding myself to go back to the book, make my own interpretation of it but I am glad I have somewhere to go to discuss certain issues that might not be clear to me, or simply if I want to see what other people's points of vue are.

I hope I didn't get too off-topic or too long-winded when going into explanations.
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SATalha
07-30-2007, 09:40 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by wilberhum
Of course. It would be almost impossible not to. Besides, I find those things interesting.

I hope that this exchange is not going to end in another conversion attempt.

Wow i thought this was a forum :? and you dont want to be tempted in to a conversation:mmokay:

Only joking, Wilber Iam sorry if i seemed to conversational.
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rav
07-30-2007, 09:44 PM
I think he said "conversion" as in, 'converting to islam'. Don't worry about it though, since when I read things to fast, I frequently may read a word wrong and than do a double take at it.
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wilberhum
07-30-2007, 09:47 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by SATalha
Wow i thought this was a forum :? and you dont want to be tempted in to a conversation:mmokay:
A number of people have tried to "Tempt" me. :D Sorry it just isn't going to happen. :(

Only joking, Wilber Iam sorry if i seemed to conversational.
No sorries needed. No offense taken.

But is your sole purpose of this thread to get converts? :hmm:
If not, I'm courious as to what you are looking for.
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SATalha
07-30-2007, 09:51 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by MaiCarInMtl
I've only been here for a few weeks and decided to join after about a year of fairly intensive internet research about the religion itself.

Of course, one will encounter possible negative vieewpoints (or one that are different from your own) when reading anything anywhere, but I find the chances of that increase with joining forums.

That being said, I find this forum is more open to variying opinions than some others, I find the people here are more positive than on many other boards I go to (be it religious or other).

I haven't learnt much new things about the basics of the religion, but I've learnt more about the importance of the religion to the people who practice it. The problem with that is that often people practice a religion differently and are also products of different socio-cultural influences (which might change the messages they interpret about their religion). This can cause some problems(and frictions).

I know it is hard to seperate the religion itself from it's practitioners (one of the many reasons why I have lost faith in the religion I was born into is due to the behaviour of the people who practice it, and moreso the attitude, actions and behaviours of the leaders one is told to look up to as the closest link to God on earth). It's a long story. I have to keep reminding myself to go back to the book, make my own interpretation of it but I am glad I have somewhere to go to discuss certain issues that might not be clear to me, or simply if I want to see what other people's points of vue are.

I hope I didn't get too off-topic or too long-winded when going into explanations.
Wow thats realy intresting iam glad you shared it with me. And no your not going off topic:coolious:

I to feel that this forum brings more positive ideas than negative, although it does have its moments.

The way we practice Islam can never be perfect, we can try to......but it wont be anything like the way our Beloved Messenger (peace and bleassings be upon him) practiced it. Because he was an example for us in every field. Foe example he was the best father, husban, military commandar, Leader of a nation, teacher, advisor, friend, manual worker and many more things. Where else will you find a man like that? Can any one name someone like that^o)

Hope to hear more.:D
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SATalha
07-30-2007, 09:52 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by rav
I think he said "conversion" as in, 'converting to islam'. Don't worry about it though, since when I read things to fast, I frequently may read a word wrong and than do a double take at it.

opppps did you mean convert lol my bad:phew
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SATalha
07-30-2007, 09:56 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by wilberhum
A number of people have tried to "Tempt" me. :D Sorry it just isn't going to happen. :(


No sorries needed. No offense taken.

But is your sole purpose of this thread to get converts? :hmm:
If not, I'm courious as to what you are looking for.
Ahh no Wilber its not to get converts but Mashallah if that happens. I just wanted see what people are learning.....if anything. The main point of forums when it comes to Islam is to educate and spread the messege of Islam. All i want to know are people just ignoring the Islam bit and going streight to the news and globals affairs topics?
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wilberhum
07-30-2007, 10:02 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by SATalha
Ahh no Wilber its not to get converts but Mashallah if that happens. I just wanted see what people are learning.....if anything. The main point of forums when it comes to Islam is to educate and spread the messege of Islam. All i want to know are people just ignoring the Islam bit and going streight to the news and globals affairs topics?
Cool. So to really answer what you want to know is I perty much "go streight to the news and globals affairs topics". I do participate and read a lot of the Comparative religion section.
But as an "Anti-Religion" agnostic, I do not seek detailed information about Islam.
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SATalha
07-30-2007, 10:19 PM
"Anti-religion Agnostic" wooow thats a cool title to have.

"hey there what are ya"

"iam an ANTI-RELIGION AGNOSTIC.......what are you"

"Muslim";D :giggling:

Anyway back to the topic. I thought so Wilber.....stright to the Current Affairs section. You should try read some of the other sections. You mightbe suprised at what you find.......better yet......you might like it:D
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SATalha
07-31-2007, 12:54 AM
So Wilber when u planning 2 take the testimony?
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Tania
07-31-2007, 05:00 AM
I really liked how, at least until now, the muslims behave like one ummah (shia, sunni or other denomination):sunny:
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Curaezipirid
07-31-2007, 07:33 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by SATalha
Ok we all know that this forum has many members all over the Globe and we also are fortunate to have non-Muslims hear as well. What i want to know is yur opinion of Islam and how you felt about Islam before the forum and how you feel now? Has this forum helped you understand Islam better? Has it removed any misconceptions? Or has your opinion of Islam become worse?

Inshallah use this thread to post your comments and opinions. I know we have some intellectual non-Muslims out there so contructive post's please. And most importantly be honest, if your opinion of Islam is realy low than dont be afraid to say so.
Salam,

It is a really good forum for being open in expressing the momentary thought, and to then gauge the response to your self in among the Ummah, and of those non-Muslims whom are infatuated with the Ummah, either in love or hate.

Thanks for asking
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SATalha
07-31-2007, 11:33 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Tania
I really liked how, at least until now, the muslims behave like one ummah (shia, sunni or other denomination):sunny:
Hi Tania, could you elaborate a bit more on what your saying:D
Iam a bit slow like that:hiding:
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Tania
07-31-2007, 02:17 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by SATalha
Hi Tania, could you elaborate a bit more on what your saying:D
Iam a bit slow like that:hiding:
I don't have really what to elaborate but i never read in any post bad words between different muslims, like "get out from here , you s...", " you are not even muslim" so on.
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wilberhum
07-31-2007, 03:57 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by SATalha
You should try read some of the other sections. You mightbe suprised at what you find.......better yet......you might like it:D [/B]
Tried it, didn't like it. :thumbs_do
Same material Christianity is made of, just a different coat of paint. :hmm:
So Wilber when u planning 2 take the testimony?
My court appearance is tomorrow. :happy: :happy: :happy:
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SATalha
07-31-2007, 07:28 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Tania
I don't have really what to elaborate but i never read in any post bad words between different muslims, like "get out from here , you s...", " you are not even muslim" so on.

ohh i understand....yeah your right that is something that is cool about the forum.:D

Wilber i dont mean that sort of testimony...............:giggling:
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wilberhum
07-31-2007, 07:41 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by SATalha
Wilber i dont mean that sort of testimony...............:giggling:
I know. :D But that is the only testimony I'm giving. :hiding: :hiding: :giggling: :giggling:
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tomtomsmom
07-31-2007, 08:20 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by SATalha
Ok we all know that this forum has many members all over the Globe and we also are fortunate to have non-Muslims hear as well. What i want to know is yur opinion of Islam and how you felt about Islam before the forum and how you feel now? Has this forum helped you understand Islam better? Has it removed any misconceptions? Or has your opinion of Islam become worse?

Inshallah use this thread to post your comments and opinions. I know we have some intellectual non-Muslims out there so contructive post's please. And most importantly be honest, if your opinion of Islam is realy low than dont be afraid to say so.

My opinion of the religion itself hasn't changed. I have simply learned more about it. I understand more. It has removed some misconceptions and also helped me realize that some misconceptions were actually real. My opinion of Islam isn't low, just my opinion of some "muslims".
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SATalha
07-31-2007, 08:57 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by tomtomsmom
My opinion of the religion itself hasn't changed. I have simply learned more about it. I understand more. It has removed some misconceptions and also helped me realize that some misconceptions were actually real. My opinion of Islam isn't low, just my opinion of some "muslims".
ok thanks can you name something positive about Islam?:okay:
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tomtomsmom
07-31-2007, 09:03 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by SATalha
ok thanks can you name something positive about Islam?:okay:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wIxIk2Wta58&eurl=:D
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SATalha
07-31-2007, 09:11 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by tomtomsmom

Subhanallah that vid is exactly the kind of messege that we should be preaching. Thanks Tomtomson:D
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Ibrahim Spinoza
07-31-2007, 10:43 PM
Salaaam.

I posted a reply in this thread, but included a link to what was considered an "anti muslim" website. My apologies, I did not intend to offend, and i will not do it again.

However, I disagree that the site in question is anti muslim. This is one of the difficulties I have with Islam. There seems to be no tolerance for intellectual questioning, and this is not attractive. If Islam is true, it can withstand questioning, and has nothing to fear.

I will respond more fully later.

peace

Ibrahim
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جوري
08-01-2007, 12:07 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Ibrahim Spinoza
Salaaam.

I posted a reply in this thread, but included a link to what was considered an "anti muslim" website. My apologies, I did not intend to offend, and i will not do it again.

However, I disagree that the site in question is anti muslim. This is one of the difficulties I have with Islam. There seems to be no tolerance for intellectual questioning, and this is not attractive. If Islam is true, it can withstand questioning, and has nothing to fear.

I will respond more fully later.

peace

Ibrahim
There is a difference between intellectual literature and that which is considered false and malicious publication printed for the purpose of defaming a man, a religion or people!... it is actully against the law, as it is a form of libel and slander.. that beside, do you consider the protocols of the elders of Zion 'intellectual'? Many will contend its contents are authentic within reason, and ring so very true today.. try finding it under Amazon and see what comes up... Amazon has come under a lot of scrutiny for selling such material that now there is a prevising on the page with Amazon delineating the protocols as 'fiction'!... perhaps one day they can grant Islam the same courtesy? -- but I doubt it!

If you have 'intellectual' questions about Islam, there is a refutation section to this forum and I believe it handles well all allegations leveled against Islam in a clear and concise fashion...

If Islam isn't attractive to you, you are not alone!.. I assure you there is a whole welcome wagon of people who share your views all you need to do is but google. You'd be surprised (maybe not) by the prevarications people will stoop to when given anonymity.

I too can cement any idea with a cut-and-paste about any group ( blacks, hispanics, Jews, Italians, Irish nationalists, Mormons) and quote me a cluster of hooligans and present it as truth... I tend to believe, that folks find exactly what they are looking for when on a quest, and further securing my beliefs in hollow globule with like minds. Happens all the time, it isn't a sign of enlightenment or reason I assure you, just another form of herd mentality and forgive my saying very en vogue!

Islam withstood worst calamities in history!.. I am sure it will manage to survive the poor opinions of the disillusioned!-- I happen to have had a glimpse into your post from yesterday where you identified (reformed Muslims) as the few intelligentsia, whereas the rest are ignorant and under-educated..
I don't know what you meant by that.. I thought it fell along the lines of a vituperative railing...There are various studies, posted here even if you'll use your search engine that speaks of very cultivated and learned Muslims..
Middle Eastern Immigrants in U.S. Educated, Prosperous, Study Says
Gannett News Service, August 15, 2002

(Also ran in Arizona Republic - 8/15)

WASHINGTON — Middle Eastern immigrants in the United States are well educated, earn more money than most Americans and are predominantly Muslim, according to a report released Wednesday.
You may do a google search just by sticking that afore mentioned statement into a search engine!

lastly, there is no such a thing as a 'reformed Muslims'-- you are either Muslims or you are a hypocrite!-- contrast that with the new and praised vociferously 'moderates' to which we say again you are either a good Muslim or a bad one!...
peace!
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Skywalker
08-01-2007, 01:22 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Ibrahim Spinoza
This is one of the difficulties I have with Islam. There seems to be no tolerance for intellectual questioning, and this is not attractive. If Islam is true, it can withstand questioning, and has nothing to fear.
Whoa! Sorry, but I see it as the exact opposite. My journey to Islam has been nothing but "ask", "find out", "explore". Not once did I ever ask a question about something in Islam and got the answer "Oh, that's just what God wants, accept it", except maybe from a few Islamically uneducated individuals. Islam pretty much orders you the seek knowledge that can benefit you, and what can benefit you more than knowledge about Islam itself?
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SATalha
08-01-2007, 07:23 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Skywalker
Whoa! Sorry, but I see it as the exact opposite. My journey to Islam has been nothing but "ask", "find out", "explore". Not once did I ever ask a question about something in Islam and got the answer "Oh, that's just what God wants, accept it", except maybe from a few Islamically uneducated individuals. Islam pretty much orders you the seek knowledge that can benefit you, and what can benefit you more than knowledge about Islam itself?
Exactly bro. Allah (SWT) tells us to ponder and qustion the wonders of creation. I find that some websites when they attempt to criticise Islam they cannot do it constructivly. People like Ali Sinna are a few names i can mention, they claim they write with Islamic sources, but its all a bunch of flowered-up lies.

Anyway thankyou to my non-Muslim friends, you have helped greatly, Keep posting Inshallah.:D
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Ibrahim Spinoza
08-01-2007, 10:40 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Skywalker
Whoa! Sorry, but I see it as the exact opposite. My journey to Islam has been nothing but "ask", "find out", "explore". Not once did I ever ask a question about something in Islam and got the answer "Oh, that's just what God wants, accept it", except maybe from a few Islamically uneducated individuals. Islam pretty much orders you the seek knowledge that can benefit you, and what can benefit you more than knowledge about Islam itself?
I am glad to hear that, that was my impression of Islam and what I want to believe. Particularly in classical times the Islamic philosophers were some of the greatest minds around. (The Kalaam cosmological argument is very strong at present, which is an argument attributed to Ibn Russhd )

However, the number of ignorant people around saddens me. This is probably true of people in general, rather than Islam in particular. Christians, for example, have a number of stupid hateful people amonst them.

You did ask for what non-Muslims think of Islam, ie what your "public image" is like. So I am not claiming my impressions are correct, only that this is how muslims can appear to some outsiders.

I suppose that Muslims should restrain and reprimand their rude bretheren, and Christians should do the same. It always seems to be the hateful ones that get the press and make the most noise. I would like to see the reasonable, polite people get more media attention.

Incidentally, Christians too are commanded to "love God with their mind", something which many are unaware of.

peace :)
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جوري
08-01-2007, 10:46 PM
reasonable and polite people don't make the news.. it doesn't make for good entertainment and it certainly is not news worthy.. I have never tuned on my set to see, the murder that didn't happen, the foiled assault, or now in health news.. look at all these healthy adults and children.. has anyone ever seen that happen?.. sort of like poetry.. what great poetry has come from a state of happiness?-- I don't know.. Anyhow, I'll maintain people always find what they seek, if you seek goodness, I am sure it will find you back and the opposite is also true...

peace!
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Ibrahim Spinoza
08-01-2007, 11:00 PM
very true, PurestAmbrosia
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Ibrahim Spinoza
08-01-2007, 11:07 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by PurestAmbrosia
There is a difference between intellectual literature and that which is considered false and malicious publication printed for the purpose of defaming a man, a religion or people!...
I agree. But neither of the sites I mentioned were intended to defame anyone. Yes, they would probably be considered controversial, but the intention was to inform or debate, not to defame.

format_quote Originally Posted by PurestAmbrosia
do you consider the protocols of the elders of Zion 'intellectual'?
No I don't, but I do contend that it should be allowed to be published. Truth has nothing to fear from lies... they are easily enough shown to be false.

If there are false things being published, then those who know the truth can also publish in response to it.

For example, when the book/movie by Dan Brown "The Da Vinci Code" came out, several people have published scholarly refutations showing how weak the scholarship behind it is.
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جوري
08-01-2007, 11:42 PM
I think the books were/are indeed allowed to be published? also the protocols are being passed off as fiction... none of these malicious anti-Islamic books are being depicted as anything but truth!.. I am in a bit of a hurry but if you research back in time you'll find that though the Spanish kicked the Jews and Muslims from their land, we absorbed the Jews in our countries.. a famous Jew named Maimondes wrote a book basically mocking the sons of Ishmael as he called it, meant to speak ill of Muslims, and though he was a guest in our countries, what happened was another author wrote a book about the accolades of the sons of Ishmael.. no one kicked him, killed him, or out death threats against him, he was allowed to share his point of view.. now a days the media looks for any disgraceful and malicious events to blow out of proportion and say.. see those are the Muslims, uncivilized and barbaric... If it were the case, Islam wouldn't have prospered to what is collectively known as the age of enlightenment at a time where Europe was experiencing its darkest ages...

peace!
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MaiCarInMtl
08-01-2007, 11:46 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Ibrahim Spinoza
This is one of the difficulties I have with Islam. There seems to be no tolerance for intellectual questioning, and this is not attractive. If Islam is true, it can withstand questioning, and has nothing to fear.
I personally have to disagree with you here. I find the religion itself encourages people to learn and to question things. Perhaps you are having problems with people who practice the religion. I've often found the people to be more than willing to answer my questions, but of course some people will just call you stupid and give you a hard time, etc etc But you find that in every faith.
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Ibrahim Spinoza
08-01-2007, 11:56 PM
Salaam :)

I thought I would rewrite what I wrote earlier.

Firstly, a little about me: I used to be a christian for many years. I am very well read in christian thinking, so can probably help with some of the trickier questions.

I realise this thread is not specifically aimed at christians, but at any non-muslim.

I have a reasonable education in Islam. I have done comparitive religion courses, read some of the Koran in translation (i intend to read more), read articles by Islamic apologists. I once planned to live in a Muslim country, and began learning Arabic.

Of course, this does not mean I know everything. As I well know, the experience of practicing a religion adds a dimension beyond what one can know from academia alone.

===

So, you've asked "What do non-muslims think of Islam/Muslims?"

Firstly, thankyou for asking. Many religious people only seem interested in preaching rather than listening. I think it will be helpful for all of us to learn from each other in a spirit of respect.

There are many things I admire in Islam - for example, the commitment to God's oneness, to justice, to good morals, to the poor. I value the contribution that Islamic philosophy, architecture and culture have made to the world.

Against that, I find the ignorance and rudeness of - apparently - many muslims sad. I won't link to websites where you can find evidence of this, but let me say I was shocked by the hateful insulting language and poor thinking I have read by some muslims. Yes, I have also read more reasonable things, but this is the minority.

I say "apparently", because I am aware I do not know every muslim on earth. But you've asked how muslims "in general" come across to outsiders. Maybe it's only the vocal ones who are hateful.

In general, I think many non-muslims are afraid of muslims. Thanks to the extremists, many non-muslims think all muslims want to kill them. I have heard that Islam is a religion of peace. I want to believe that.

Alongside this, Islam appears intolerant, and unable to engage in reasonable intellectual debate. When Islam is challenged intellectually, it appears to respond with hatred and insults rather than reason.

You asked how you "appear" to outsiders. I am aware that how it "appears" is not how it IS. But that's what you wanted to know. I am sad to say, Islam does not come across well even to thoughtful and sympathetic people.

:(
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Ibrahim Spinoza
08-02-2007, 12:05 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by PurestAmbrosia
I think the books were/are indeed allowed to be published? also the protocols are being passed off as fiction... none of these malicious anti-Islamic books are being depicted as anything but truth!.. .
For a long time, to use your example, the protocols were published as 'truth'. I have no problem with anyone publishing them as 'truth' again. I think anyone educated will soon discover they are poor scholarship.

No doubt there are anti-Islamic books out there. But I wasn't referring to those. Also, I contend they should be allowed to be published. It is up to the faithful to show the information they are wrong.

The two examples I gave were a website about Islamic art, and a review of a book by a muslim woman about her experiences. Neither of these were intended to be insulting, and the woman in question claims that she loves Islam and is a committed muslim.

Now, they may be wrong, but the way to counter them is with argument, not with censorship.
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جوري
08-02-2007, 07:10 AM
I can safely assume if you were able to purchase the books that, they are not in fact censored? And have in my afore post showed you times in history when obvious malice was met with forgivingness... You can purchase a reputable history book of that era and confirm that for yourself...

If you have any honest rational debates you can post them in the refutation section... I surmise that what you are looking for is some disapprobation for all the Muslims that you have encountered that met with your disapproval? Ones whom you find wrong, morally and socially culpable for one reason or another.. I don't think any member here will dispense with an apology for what seems plainly a subjective view!...

To be honest speaking for my person and I know it goes against the request of this thread.. but, I don't care how Islam is being perceived by some or even most non-muslims.. every one is entitled to his/her opinion.. so long as it doesn't turn into mob violence I don't see why I should personally care?
Each soul is held in pledge by its own deeds-- this isn't a communal effort.. We go to God as we are not held accountable for what the neighbors did...

peace and I hope you find what you are looking for...
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SATalha
08-05-2007, 06:47 PM
Thanks Every one for their post.

Just a comment on the last post, we all know the sitiuation that is taking place when it comes to the image of Islam. We see it in the media everyday and we hear about it from people that we know. Now if these people are representing Islam in a negative way, than it is our duty to spread the truth.

Thats why i wanted to post this thread, i wanted to see if peoples opinions are being changed or not. Iam like you sis, sometimes i realy couldnt care less.......but than i think we are give a duty by Allah (SWT) to propogate Islam to as many people as we can. :D
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