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InToTheRain
08-07-2007, 09:56 AM
[PIE]Teenage U.S. deserter flees to Ottawa before Iraq posting
Second deserter settled in the city by Canadian group
Last Updated: Friday, July 6, 2007 | 10:38 AM ET
CBC News


A U.S. military deserter has applied for refugee status after fleeing to Ottawa from a military base in Virginia before he could be posted to Iraq.

Ross Spears, 19, arrived in the city about three weeks ago after nine months in basic training during which he decided he could not support the war in Iraq.

‘At that point I was just like, “This war is wrong.”‘— Ross Spears

Spears said he signed up when he was 18 and believed he had to do his part for his country against the “terrorists over there.”

But he began having doubts three days into basic training.

“The cadences they made us sing were … ‘I went to the playground where all the children play; pulled out my Uzi and I began to spray,’” he said.

Spears said he signed up to be a truck driver, but was trained to kill using practice targets shaped like women in burqas with bazookas on their shoulders.


“And just the way they talked about going over there and killing people that made it seem like it was … hunting animals or something, hunting deer,” he said.

Months later, he was told he was going to Iraq.

He asked his commanders for conscientious objector status, which would allow him to leave the army for reasons of conscience.

“At that point I was just like, ‘This war is wrong,’” he said.

His commanders responded by binding his hands and roughing him up as discipline, he said.

Spears fled to Toronto, where he sought help from a Canadian group called the War Resister Support Campaign that has helped other U.S. deserters.

The group told him that resources were getting thin in Toronto, so they sent him to Ottawa.

There, he was welcomed into the home of Bob and Linda Stevenson.

Spears’s lawyer Kourosh Farrokhzhad, who has been helping the former soldier build his refugee case, said he hopes Canada will fulfill its obligation to protect people who are wrongfully persecuted for their beliefs.

“These individuals who are conscientious objectors had their requests, to be seen as such, constantly thwarted by the U.S. military to the point where they were forced to engage in what is arguably an illegal war in Iraq,” he said.

Spears is the second U.S. deserter settled in Ottawa by the War Resister Support Campaign. The first was 22-year-old James Burmeister.

So, do you still believe that your troops are in Iraq fighting for their liberation from a brutal dictator or is it that they are still looking for Weapons of Mass Destruction? Or for the spread of democracy so these people can be “freed” from the shackles of ruthless “Islamic” dictatorships so it can be replaced by the new slogan, “I will free you, or else I am going to have to kill you!”

This reminds me of what one of the Fox toadies said on his program about Iraq before Bush was re-elected, “We’re going to go over there (Iraq) and we are going to cram democracy down their throats, and if they choke on it, then good!”

Wake up America! Your children, who feel they join the army out of a patriotic duty to serve their country are fleeing because they don’t want to kill women and children. They are seeking refugee status in Canada because they fear that they will be persecuted for the beliefs that killing women and children is wrong!

As Muslims, we know the Prophet (salallaahu alayhee wa salam) forbade the killing of women, children, elderely, and non-combatants, he even forbade the chopping down of trees (unless there was a use)! May Allaah save the Muslims and the innocents from the neo-crusaders, aameen.[/PIE]

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/ottawa/stor...ss#skip300x250

http://canadianmuhaajir.wordpress.co...-and-children/
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wilberhum
08-07-2007, 04:23 PM
A deserter flees! World News? :confused:

And he has bad things to say. :hiding:

How devistating can this be? The US will surly crumble. :offended:

Spears said he signed up to be a truck driver, but was trained to kill using practice targets shaped like women in burqas with bazookas on their shoulders.
What should you do it some one points a bazooka at you? Go do a gender check?

As Muslims, we know the Prophet (salallaahu alayhee wa salam) forbade the killing of women, children, elderely, and non-combatants, he even forbade the chopping down of trees (unless there was a use)
This seams to be a message you need to give to the Iraq Muslims. They are the ones killing the vast majority of Muslims.
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root
08-07-2007, 05:50 PM
Spears said he signed up to be a truck driver, but was trained to kill using practice targets shaped like women in burqas with bazookas on their shoulders.
This is just so stupid. Firstly, every soldier is first and formost a soldier. It does not matter if your a Doctor, Cook, or in this case a driver. That's the whole point of basic training in that you are a soldier first then you are a truck driver.

Seems to me this coward is talking out of his rear end..................

Another point of issue is that burqas don't mean it's a woman, I don't care if the target is 6 years old whilst they pointing an RPG it's them or me and I don't opt for the latter. Additionally, this is militia we could be talking about. The unwritten rule in ALL armed forces with regard to militia.

Expect no quarter, give no quarter

Average militia, terrorist or whatever u wanna call em ain't signatories to the Geneva Convention period.
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MTAFFI
08-07-2007, 06:42 PM
I found this article to be somewhat contrary to what the article above represents.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/csm/20070807/ts_csm/aatrocity

Is military justice in Iraq changing for the better? By Brad Knickerbocker Tue Aug 7, 4:00 AM ET


The wheels of American military justice seem to be turning as they should in Iraq, particularly given the extreme difficulties of urban combat against tough and sometimes suicidal insurgents blending in with the general population.

ADVERTISEMENT


In a series of cases involving the unlawful killing and abuse of Iraqi civilians, officers as well as enlisted soldiers and marines are being prosecuted and punished. The need to follow the Uniformed Code of Military Justice and the laws of war is being reemphasized in combat training down to the individual platoon level.

But the improvements in military justice come with some worrisome caveats as well, experts say: It took the highly publicized abuses at the Abu Ghraib prison to get the military's attention. The severity of punishment has been mixed, raising questions about the sympathy of military juries made up of fellow Iraq combat vets. And the length of the war, including multiple combat tours, plus the lowering of recruiting standards to meet manpower shortages, is adding to the stress and discipline problems that can lead to abuses.

"Based on a very incomplete picture of what's happening day to day in Iraq, it appears that there's much more attention to human rights and to the laws of war than, for example, in Vietnam or Korea," says military analyst Loren Thompson of the Lexington Institute in Arlington, Va.

At Camp Pendleton, Calif., on Friday, Marine Corps Sgt. Lawrence Hutchins III was sentenced to 15 years in prison and given a dishonorable discharge for organizing the kidnapping and killing of an Iraqi man in Hamdaniya last year. Six junior marines and a Navy petty officer involved in the case received lesser punishments.

On Saturday, one of the soldiers convicted of rape and murder in an attack on a 14-year-old Iraqi girl and her family in Mahmudiyah, about 20 miles south of Baghdad, was sentenced to 110 years in prison with parole possible after 10 years.

The case of 24 Iraqi civilians killed at Haditha in 2005 is approaching the court martial phase for a Marine staff sergeant and two lance corporals charged with murder. In that case, four officers, including the battalion commander, also are accused of failure to fully investigate the killings. The military equivalent of a grand jury proceeding this week will consider charges of dereliction of duty and violation of a lawful order against Lt. Col Jeffrey Chessani.

Later in the month, Army Lt. Col. Steven Jordan faces a general court-martial on charges that he failed to stop soldiers from abusing prisoners at Abu Ghraib. Meanwhile, a retired US Army lieutenant general has been censured in the friendly fire killing of Army Ranger Pat Tillman, and he could be demoted to two-star rank.

"In a perverse way, these courts martials are a sign of the vitality of the military justice system, the fact that it's working," says Gary Solis, a Vietnam combat veteran who went on to spend 20 years as a judge advocate and military judge in the Marine Corps before teaching laws of war at the US Military Academy at West Point. Abu Ghraib, he says, was an impetus to cracking down on the abuse of civilians. "All of the armed services, it seems to me, are facing the music and saying, 'Hey, if we're a nation of laws, if we're the good guys, we've got to take action.' "

Especially important, says Mr. Solis, is the prosecution and punishment of officers.

"Haditha for the Marine Corps is sending a ... message for battalion commanders that they cannot turn a blind eye for what may be war crimes," says Solis, who now teaches at Georgetown University. "You're not going to get attention paid until you start trying officers."

"I only wish it went higher," he adds.

Do veterans make for lenient jurors?
The Hamdaniya case, in which marines killed an Iraqi man and then made it look as if he had been an insurgent planting a roadside bomb, has raised questions about the appropriateness of punishment. Four of the seven men convicted were sentenced only to the time they had already served in the brig.

Some observers wonder whether that was because the jurors in those cases were made up largely (in some cases exclusively) of Iraq war veterans who had experienced first-hand the same kind of hostile environment.

"One person's jury that understands what it's like in Iraq is another person's jury that's too friendly," says Eugene Fidell, president of the National Institute of Military Justice.

"There is a tension there," says Mr. Fidell, a former Coast Guard lawyer. "No one seems to think that it makes no difference that the jury has had something of the same experience. No one seems to think that that's a neutral factor."

Just as the Vietnam war did a generation ago, the Iraq War is teaching a new cohort of military men and women hard lessons about fighting an enemy that doesn't hold to traditional means of combat in which soldiers in uniform primarily attacked one another. In particular, commanders of combat units are reexamining the "rules of engagement" – what to expect on a combat mission and what violent responses are permissible, especially in an urban setting.

Here, retired Army Col. Dan Smith sees a common thread to most of the abuse cases: the killing and wounding of US troops by roadside bombs, the greatest single cause of American casualties in Iraq.

"There is pure frustration, pure anger, pure rage because there is no one who is the obvious perpetrator," says Colonel Smith, a military analyst with the Friends Committee on National Legislation who fought in Vietnam and later taught philosophy at West Point.

"Soldiers soon decide they can trust no one except their comrades … and quickly the indigenous people – all of them – become inferiors," he says. "Being inferior, they are less than human and deserve less respect, at which point one has entered the slippery slope that can end with a war crime."

To reduce combat stress, the Army now gives combat soldiers a break after 90 days. But that may not be enough, some experts say, especially for those on their second, third, or fourth tour in Iraq.

Experts point to relaxed standards
While military units are reemphasizing the importance of the laws of war and rules of engagement, some relaxed recruiting standards may cause other problems.

"Waiving rules against recruiting men and women with criminal records is leading to a substantial rise in the number of gang members wearing uniforms and getting trained to use military weapons," says Smith. "Put them in a war zone where death is common and life cheap – that's a real recipe for wanton killing."

Solis, the former Marine Corp judge advocate, agrees. "When enlistment qualifications go down, that means discipline rates go up."

As the nature of modern war changes to become less "conventional," it may be that the Uniform Code of Military Justice (passed by Congress in 1950) and the laws of war will need to be reexamined, some experts suggest.

"If what we're seeing in Afghanistan and Iraq is a harbinger of future conflicts, then there's going to have to be some change in the rather old-fashioned and conventional concepts of behavior in the battle space," says Dr. Thompson, whose work puts him in close contact with military officers and Pentagon officials.

"We are now deep into an era when combatants do everything they can to seem like they're not combatants until the last moment when they kill you," he says. "That's about as far as you can get from the [British] red coats when the laws of war first began to be formulated."
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guyabano
08-07-2007, 07:47 PM
Journals of a Canadian revert who recently made Hijrah to Jeddah, Saudi Arabia. Islam, Islaam, Salafee, Religion.
Already the title says it all ! World news....yeah !

Ya know what? This is the same, as I would post messages here from a Forum from Apostates of Islam. I wonder that such kind of posts get approved !
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yigiter187
08-07-2007, 07:56 PM
are you surprised?
im not surprised to hear this...
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wilberhum
08-07-2007, 08:20 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by yigiter187
are you surprised?
im not surprised to hear this...
What doesn't surprise you?
Truck drivers may have to fight? :-\
They are instructed to shoot at people with bazookas pointed at you? :-\
Not everyone favors the war? :-\
Some conscientious objectors flee the country? :-\

Just what don't you find surprising? :skeleton:
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MTAFFI
08-07-2007, 08:27 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by yigiter187
are you surprised?
im not surprised to hear this...
yes what are you surprised at hearing? That two people have fled to Canada because they were afraid to fight in war, or that the US military courts are cracking down harder on war crimes in Iraq than any other war ever fought?

What since would it make to tell our soldiers "Kill women and children, terrorist or citizen" when we are then locking up the guys who rape and kill the innocent? To me it looks like the guy just couldnt hack it, so he ran away
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InToTheRain
08-07-2007, 08:41 PM
:sl:

format_quote Originally Posted by yigiter187
are you surprised?
im not surprised to hear this...
:( ye AKhi, it just confirms what I already saw and makes sense seeing as the civillian body count is so high. Of course there are those that remain blind and will not be convinced unless they see it on CNN or Fox news maybe.

http://www.iraqbodycount.net/

Hidden Massacre Falujah

http://reprehensor.gnn.tv/blogs/1044...idden_Massacre
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wilberhum
08-07-2007, 08:58 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by WnbSlveOfAllah
:sl:



:( ye AKhi, it just confirms what I already saw and makes sense seeing as the civillian body count is so high. Of course there are those that remain blind and will not be convinced unless they see it on CNN or Fox news maybe.

http://www.iraqbodycount.net/

Hidden Massacre Falujah

http://reprehensor.gnn.tv/blogs/1044...idden_Massacre
We all know why the body count is so high. It is Muslims killing Muslims.
CNN One of the worlds largest news soruces is untrust worthy? Because they are government controled? Or is it Zionest controled? What do you concider a trusted news source. Islamonline with it's bias base?
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yigiter187
08-07-2007, 09:03 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by wilberhum
What doesn't surprise you?
Truck drivers may have to fight? :-\
They are instructed to shoot at people with bazookas pointed at you? :-\
Not everyone favors the war? :-\
Some conscientious objectors flee the country? :-\

Just what don't you find surprising? :skeleton:
not those but to these...
--a usa soldier telling how he killed small children ,with his guitar and with disgusting smiles...
---abu grayb(here you can see how human usa soldiers are )
---soldiers killing so many innocent people for joy...
---supporting terröst groups which are not against usa...


hiroshima,nagasaki,wiatnam,ıraq....

there are so many guilts of usa that ı dont know which one to say...
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yigiter187
08-07-2007, 09:06 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by wilberhum
We all know why the body count is so high. It is Muslims killing Muslims.
CNN One of the worlds largest news soruces is untrust worthy? Because they are government controled? Or is it Zionest controled? What do you concider a trusted news source. Islamonline with it's bias base?
please give me the number of killed muslims by muslims?
before usa came ıraq,and after usa came ıraq...
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wilberhum
08-07-2007, 09:10 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by yigiter187
please give me the number of killed muslims by muslims?
before usa came ıraq,and after usa came ıraq...
Muslims have been killing Muslims since Mohammad died.:muddlehea
SH was killing Muslims every day. :mad:
You just want a new scape goat.
:thumbs_do
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wilberhum
08-07-2007, 09:11 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by yigiter187
not those but to these...
--a usa soldier telling how he killed small children ,with his guitar and with disgusting smiles...
---abu grayb(here you can see how human usa soldiers are )
---soldiers killing so many innocent people for joy...
---supporting terröst groups which are not against usa...


hiroshima,nagasaki,wiatnam,ıraq....

there are so many guilts of usa that ı dont know which one to say...
Oh you want to open the scope two the last 6 years and not just the article.
If you change the scope a little more we could talk about the crusades. :skeleton:
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Amadeus85
08-07-2007, 09:12 PM
This article is biased and another example of americophobia :)
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yigiter187
08-07-2007, 09:12 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by wilberhum
Muslims have been killing Muslims since Mohammad died.:muddlehea
SH was killing Muslims every day. :mad:
You just want a new scape goat.
:thumbs_do
we r talkin about ıraq..
say me the number of killed muslims IN IRAQ before usa came ıraq.. and after usa came ıraq
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wilberhum
08-07-2007, 09:17 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by yigiter187
we r talkin about ıraq..
say me the number of killed muslims IN IRAQ before usa came ıraq.. and after usa came ıraq
Are you sugesting SH didn't gass the Kurds? We didn't find and WMD but we did find many mass graves. How many did your beloved Muslim Brother SH kill? I have no idea. Thousands for sure, hundreds of thousands maybe. Millions if you want to count his wars.
:hiding:
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InToTheRain
08-07-2007, 09:17 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by wilberhum
We all know why the body count is so high. It is Muslims killing Muslims.
Man stop generalising with these baseless statements and stop spoon feeding off CNN, omg man How many times I gotta tell you? I know how baseless your statements are from our previous discussions...

format_quote Originally Posted by wilberhum
CNN One of the worlds largest news soruces is untrust worthy? Because they are government controled? Or is it Zionest controled? What do you concider a trusted news source. Islamonline with it's bias base?
I use ration and a process of Elimination, I watch BBC news mostly and add that to the vast information source on the net minus the 99% BS you got the world at your feet. Is CNN controlled by ZIonists/Goverment? Most probably seen as its a complete flipping JOKE! Yes its full of BS, and guess what, I ain't the only one that thinks so. Guess what, I ain't the only one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aFQFB5YpDZE

Mash'allah, not all americans are blind
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yigiter187
08-07-2007, 09:25 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by wilberhum
Are you sugesting SH didn't gass the Kurds? We didn't find and WMD but we did find many mass graves. How many did your beloved Muslim Brother SH kill? I have no idea. Thousands for sure, hundreds of thousands maybe. Millions if you want to count his wars.
:hiding:
ı dont claim that saddam was good....
but ım sure that even saddam was better than usa in ıraq...
during saddam regime saddam was the killer,but now it isnt obvious who kills who...but it is obvious to ones who think wisely,all the ways of killers ın ıraq reach one place...usa.....but no one dares to say this bluntly
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wilberhum
08-07-2007, 09:29 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by WnbSlveOfAllah
Man stop generalising with these baseless statements and stop spoon feeding off CNN, omg man How many times I gotta tell you? I know how baseless your statements are from our previous discussions...
I get most of my stuff for you bigots from Al Jazerra.

I use ration and a process of Elimination, I watch BBC news mostly and add that to the vast information source on the net
Wow, thats nice. Where do you go "HateUSA.com"? :hmm:
minus the 99% BS you got the world at your feet.
I would assume the 99% you minus are things that don't please you. :(
Is CNN controlled by ZIonists/Goverment? Most probably seen as its a complete flipping JOKE! Yes its full of BS, and guess what, I ain't the only one that thinks so. Guess what, I ain't the only one:
Mose Muslims don't seame to be able to accept reality. You seam to be no exception.
And yes "Youtube" where any idot can say anything they want. What a great source of news. If you check youtube close enough you can find out where the flying sourcers landed. :giggling: :giggling: :giggling:


Mash'allah, not all americans are blind
That is probably true for most that line in "the soul created by Allah within a body sustained by Allah in his domain". But probably not you.
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wilberhum
08-07-2007, 09:32 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by yigiter187
ı dont claim that saddam was good....
but ım sure that even saddam was better than usa in ıraq...
during saddam regime saddam was the killer,but now it isnt obvious who kills who...but it is obvious to ones who think wisely,all the ways of killers ın ıraq reach one place...usa.....but no one dares to say this bluntly
So I guess that answered your question. "say me the number of killed muslims IN IRAQ before usa came ıraq"

Peace Wilber
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InToTheRain
08-07-2007, 09:46 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by wilberhum
And yes "Youtube" where any idot can say anything they want. What a great source of news. If you check youtube close enough you can find out where the flying sourcers landed. :giggling: :giggling: :giggling:
It was taken from your beloved CNN, from a show called Cross fire ON CNN.
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wilberhum
08-07-2007, 09:55 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by WnbSlveOfAllah
It was taken from your beloved CNN, from a show called Cross fire ON CNN.
Well then it can't be reliable can it? :?

Oh lets see.
If I like it, it’s reliable.:thumbs_up

If I don't like it, it isn't reliable. :thumbs_do

I’m beginning to understand your logic. :skeleton:
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KAding
08-07-2007, 09:55 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by yigiter187
please give me the number of killed muslims by muslims?
before usa came ıraq,and after usa came ıraq...
Saddam was pretty deadly as well though. Probably not quite as deadly as it is now, but his killing was over a long sustained period. Millions died under his rule, either due to civil war or thanks to the wars of aggression he started. Just because it wasn't reported much then doesn't mean it didn't happen. It only strengthens my belief in the apparent bias that Muslims don't report/talk much about the violent death of other Muslims as long as it not the Zionist or Americans doing the killing.

HRW:
It is difficult to contemplate, after the many horrors of the last century, that a government could get away with murdering a quarter of a million people. A quarter of a million Iraqis taken from their homes, driven to remote sites, and executed. A quarter of a million Iraqis who simply “disappeared,” without even the courtesy of notice to their families, let alone a trial and judgment. An average of 10,000 people a year for the two-and-a-half decades of the dictator's rule. That unthinkable tally is Saddam Hussein's legacy.

The mass graves being unearthed today in Iraq bespeak the horrors of his rule. Among the occupants of these graves are 100,000 Kurdish men and boys machine-gunned to death during the 1988 Anfal genocide; 30,000 Shiites and Kurds slaughtered after the 1991 uprising; other Shiites killed during the 1980s because of their perceived sympathy for Iran; so-called Marsh Arabs, killed as the Iraqi government drained the marshes and destroyed a culture that had thrived for centuries; and many individual Iraqis of all faiths and ethnicities who were singled out, their lives ended, for real or perceived opposition to the regime.
Iran Iraq War: Estimated Muslims killing Muslims at about 1 million in 8 years

Thats a lot of dead Muslims there.

Go through the source WnbSlveOfAllah gave us:
http://www.iraqbodycount.net/database/

Tell me who is doing the killing there? The Americans or the 'resistance fighters'/'insurgents'/'terrorists'?

In fact, let me quote their latest analysis:
http://www.iraqbodycount.net/press/pr15.php
Coalition-caused deaths.
Coalition forces, principally US as well as some UK, were identified to have killed at least 536 Iraqi civilians in year four (excluding a major incident in Najaf in January which is still under investigation by IBC). This compares with 370 in year three. If 536 seems insignificant in light of the overall total, consider for a moment what it would mean if in your country there were, on average, three incidents a week in which a foreign army killed civilians, including the killing of a 5-yr-old girl and entire families with their children. Would this army be a stabilising influence?
536 out of a total of 26540 dead civilians from March 2006 to March 2007. Suicide and car bombings alone have killed almost 6000 people in the last year. Yes, thats right 2% of all the killings is caused by Coalition fire. And this is from an anti-occupation website.

At a certain point you will have to accept the responsibility of those actually doing most of the killing. The US opened the can of worms, but the worms were already at each others throats for many centuries.
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wilberhum
08-07-2007, 09:58 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Alpha Dude
Doesn't making the recruits chant this seem in the least bit wrong?
Well if you really believe it.
If that is what we teach, why do we put those that do it in prision?
It dosn't make sence does it?
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KAding
08-07-2007, 10:03 PM
I believe what he says. Soldiers can sing pretty disgusting marching songs sometimes. And the Burqa with a bazooka sounds pretty believable too.

Doing a quick search on google directs you to the following comment on a blog (unrelated to this case). The full lyrics of this marching song appear to be something like:
left right left right left right kill!!! left right left right you know we will!!! I went to the market() where all the ladies shop(troops repeat) pulled out my machette(sic)() and began to chop!!!(troops repeat)

2nd vrs repeat and sub I went to the playground() where all the kiddies play(troops repeat) pulled out my uzi() and began to spray!!!()
3rd vrs repeat and sub I went to the pool() where all the kiddies swam() pulled out my m-16 and made like it was nam!!!() left right left righ left right kill!! left right left right you know we will!!
http://thelawdogfiles.blogspot.com/2...hypocrits.html
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wilberhum
08-07-2007, 10:06 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Alpha Dude
Fair enough, it could have been made up.
lol..
I'm still going to answer this though. :D

It's cos it's AMERICAN kids that get killed...since when do Iraqi kids matter? :okay:
I sure some feel that way. I sure some don't care when Muslims die. :mad:

But then there is the other 99%. :peace:
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wilberhum
08-07-2007, 10:14 PM
From:
Debate for my Muslim friends #59
Originally Posted by ISLAMASWEENEY
What i meant was that Saddam Hussein is not just a mARTYR BUT A MASSIVE HUGE HERO FOR THE JOB HE DID IN STABALISING IRAQ
I thought this was an interesting post.
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InToTheRain
08-07-2007, 10:36 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by wilberhum
Well then it can't be reliable can it? :?

Oh lets see.
If I like it, it’s reliable.:thumbs_up

If I don't like it, it isn't reliable. :thumbs_do

I’m beginning to understand your logic. :skeleton:
Have actually seen the Link? its a debate between CNN and John Stuart, this is an excepton and it's about the reliability of CNN, although it ain't supposed to be but John forces the Issue on them and CNN representatives are at a loss for words coz they know their BS better then others I guess.

Any one who only relies on CNN for news is Blind, you have gotto go to other sources. I too used to watch CNN but they neve gave the complete picture so you gotta complete it yourself or at least try to.
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wilberhum
08-07-2007, 10:46 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by WnbSlveOfAllah
Have actually seen the Link? its a debate between CNN and John Stuart, this is an excepton and it's about the reliability of CNN, although it ain't supposed to be but John forces the Issue on them and CNN representatives are at a loss for words coz they know their BS better then others I guess.

Any one who only relies on CNN for news is Blind, you have gotto go to other sources. I too used to watch CNN but they neve gave the complete picture so you gotta complete it yourself or at least try to.
Any one who only relies on any single source for news is Blind.
That's why I daily visit Al Jazeera, BBC, CNN and of cource "The Seattle PI".
About once a week I read news source from India, Japan, and Australia.

What is truly amazing is I seldom see conflicting reports.

Your bias BS just does not fly any better than pigs. :D
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InToTheRain
08-07-2007, 11:10 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by wilberhum
What is truly amazing is I seldom see conflicting reports.
LOL, so you have found sources which give the same subjective view. So if it agrees with CNN it's true else it's false. I see your logic :D
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wilberhum
08-07-2007, 11:17 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by WnbSlveOfAllah
LOL, so you have found sources which give the same subjective view. So if it agrees with CNN it's true else it's false. I see your logic :D
Right Al Jazeera and CNN are both Zionist controlled. :?

You look worse with every post. :D

Instead of your silly accusations, why don't you bring an example from any international news agency? :thumbs_up

That does not include westophobia.com either. :D
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Amadeus85
08-07-2007, 11:34 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by yigiter187
ı dont claim that saddam was good....
but ım sure that even saddam was better than usa in ıraq...
during saddam regime saddam was the killer,but now it isnt obvious who kills who...but it is obvious to ones who think wisely,all the ways of killers ın ıraq reach one place...usa.....but no one dares to say this bluntly
Saddam was good because only shiia's were killed. Now also sunnis die, so american occupation is evil. :muddlehea
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InToTheRain
08-07-2007, 11:56 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by wilberhum
Right Al Jazeera and CNN are both Zionist controlled. :?
not sure but I sure do know CNN controls you :D

format_quote Originally Posted by wilberhum
Instead of your silly accusations, why don't you bring an example from any international news agency? :thumbs_up
If we are talking about the Deserter who is accusing the army of teaching injustice and the killing of civiallians then I believe him, for what reason should I doubt the article? Since the unjustified invasion of Iraq there has been nothing to improve the situation, The US army has used Chemical weapons on civiallians when the Hypocrites have supposedly went to stop the use of WMD.

Half truths and double standards equate to BS in my book.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Columnists...642831,00.html

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/mid...st/4417024.stm

They used chemical weapons on civillians indiscriminately, if you see the links I gave previously (the hidden massacre at fallujah YouTube) it is all true and the links above confirm it.
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beespreeteam
08-08-2007, 12:57 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Aaron85
Saddam was good because only shiia's were killed. Now also sunnis die, so american occupation is evil. :muddlehea
Err

muslims didn't like saddam, and they shoudnt, but it was better than it is now. That's the simple message.

Also, when you train soldiers to shoot burqa'd ladies with bazookas on their shoulders, all you're doing is reducing their sensitivity to killing women. How many burqa'd out women would be holding bazooka's fighting? I doubt theirs many...

And stop quoting randoms/retards. If you want me to start quoting stuff from the 'white national front', of whom there are many, I could do that...
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Cognescenti
08-08-2007, 03:28 AM
This idiot (the word is completely apt) enlists in the Army and then resents when they try to teach him how to use a weapon????

Did he think he was in truck driver's school? What does he think an "army" is for? That is so stupifyingly stupid as to raise doubts about his ability to form cogent thoughts on other matters. He has now been taken to the bosom of a bunch of kook peaceniks who would do anything to undercut the credibility of the US military. That does not help. I am not sure I believe one thing here. I am not even sure he was in the Army.

Then there is the bit about "Conscientous Objector"???? How can you be a Conscientous Objector in an all volunteer Army? :confused:

It is one thing to draft a Quaker (whcih did happen in WWII), but this guy is just an immature dumbass who realized he didn't want to play amry anymore and concocted an "exit strategy"

Note there is NO attempt by the "author" to even seek an opposing statement or verify the story. Absolute bovine excrement.
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Keltoi
08-08-2007, 03:48 AM
Just a sidenote, the U.S. found out pretty quick that some people have no qualms about using women on the battlefield during that little holiday in Somalia. Those special forces soldiers were forced to kill hundreds of people, and many of them were women. They weren't carrying RPGs, they were used as human shields for the charging men behind them. So let us not pretend women can't be a threat, especially when the enemy knows many are likely to hesitate when the choice presents itself.

As for the supposed marching song, I wouldn't be surprised if such a song existed in some form, especially in the Marine Corps, but I don't know for certain. In any event, nobody with half a brain cell would actually believe U.S. troops are trained to "kill women and children".
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beespreeteam
08-08-2007, 06:18 AM
Regardless, you'll get owned:

http://beespree.com/WorldAffairs/Abu...lowers_ordeal/
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Joe98
08-08-2007, 06:30 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by beespreeteam
……..all you're doing is reducing their sensitivity to killing women.
No, killing somebody dressed like a woman


format_quote Originally Posted by beespreeteam
How many burqa'd out women would be holding bazooka's fighting?

How can anybody tell whether the person is male or female????
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guyabano
08-08-2007, 08:18 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by wilberhum
Instead of your silly accusations, why don't you bring an example from any international news agency? :thumbs_up
Simple, because he cannot find any news there which fuel his hatred.

This story about US soldiers trained to shoot Woman and children is simply ridiculous. I'm not always agreeing what US Army do, but I'm pretty sure, they don't do things like that.
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yigiter187
08-08-2007, 09:32 AM
indeed,no need to train usa troops to kill innocents..because they are already very experienced in doing it..ı think killin 200.000 people in a second is a great experience for usa to kill innnocents...
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guyabano
08-08-2007, 09:56 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by yigiter187
ı think killin 200.000 people in a second is a great experience for usa to kill innnocents...
Wow ! That is indeed a very high rate, even more faster than birth rate! According to your words, the world population will be erased soon

I'm really speechless !
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yigiter187
08-08-2007, 10:08 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by guyabano
Wow ! That is indeed a very high rate, even more faster than birth rate! According to your words, the world population will be erased soon

I'm really speechless !
6 and 9 august 1945 reminds you something?
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InToTheRain
08-08-2007, 10:13 AM
This is not about hatred, its about the Injustice felt by some one who enlisted in the Army.
I never said I hate America, I think the goverment is corrupt and that only ammounts to a handful of people and those who support the goverment are either blind or corrupt themselves. There are many who have shown dislike towards the goverments actions and I am one of them. I do not hate America, I hate injustice and whatever Breeds it.

It is man's Nature to punish many for the crimes of a few, and Gods to punish few for the crimes of many. And in Islam we are taught to forgiveness is the better option even though it is our right to punish those who commit injustice against us just as there will be a time when it's God who has the right to punish us for the sins we commit.
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guyabano
08-08-2007, 01:15 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by WnbSlveOfAllah
This is not about hatred, its about the Injustice felt by some one who enlisted in the Army.
I never said I hate America, I think the goverment is corrupt and that only ammounts to a handful of people and those who support the goverment are either blind or corrupt themselves. There are many who have shown dislike towards the goverments actions and I am one of them. I do not hate America, I hate injustice and whatever Breeds it.

It is man's Nature to punish many for the crimes of a few, and Gods to punish few for the crimes of many. And in Islam we are taught to forgiveness is the better option even though it is our right to punish those who commit injustice against us just as there will be a time when it's God who has the right to punish us for the sins we commit.
Ok, sorry if I misunderstood something. I agree with you, that politicans are corrupt, but that is not only a US problem, that is an world-wide Problem.
But pretending, young soldiers are teached to shoot innocent civilians, hmmm ?
Anyway, you're right, God will punish the responsible persons for such crimes !
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Cognescenti
08-08-2007, 02:30 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by WnbSlveOfAllah
This is not about hatred, its about the Injustice felt by some one who enlisted in the Army.
I never said I hate America, I think the goverment is corrupt and that only ammounts to a handful of people and those who support the goverment are either blind or corrupt themselves. There are many who have shown dislike towards the goverments actions and I am one of them. I do not hate America, I hate injustice and whatever Breeds it.

It is man's Nature to punish many for the crimes of a few, and Gods to punish few for the crimes of many. And in Islam we are taught to forgiveness is the better option even though it is our right to punish those who commit injustice against us just as there will be a time when it's God who has the right to punish us for the sins we commit.
Sorry, bro, but it seems to me you do hate America. Your hatred appears all-consuming and irrational. The "I don't hate Americans, just their government" line is worn out and you had best find another rationalization for your blind generalizations. This is a variant of the "some of my best friends are <insert name of ethinic group, race, national origin here>" defence. It doesn't fool anyone.

Do you realize the government of the US is democratically elected? How exactly can a "handful" of people put a government in power when there are well over a hundred million voters?


......I hate injustice and whatever Breeds it.

Oh really? How do you feel about the Taleban and the inspiration for their oppression? Hmmmm?
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InToTheRain
08-08-2007, 02:32 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by guyabano
Ok, sorry if I misunderstood something. I agree with you, that politicans are corrupt, but that is not only a US problem, that is an world-wide Problem.!
I agree that Many if not all countries are govermned by the corrupt these days hence the state of the world. This article just happened to catch my eye and shed light on other related news such as the injustice caused by the US armies by using Chemical weapons/WMDs in Fallujah.

format_quote Originally Posted by guyabano
But pretending, young soldiers are teached to shoot innocent civilians, hmmm ?
Its his experience vs our opinion. Maybe it was just his regiment or maybe they don't know the implications of what they are teaching which was clearly felt by this man.
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Muezzin
08-08-2007, 02:41 PM
Guys, I'd really like for you to stop bickering and actually discuss the topic - disagree or agree with what is stated by all means, but stop this arguing.

As it is, I'll have to start deleting posts, and because of the recent server trouble, they'll just be moved straight to the Recycling Bin rather than deleted the traditional way, since the traditional way is causing mayhem with the database. That means if your post is deleted, you won't even receive an automated PM telling you why.

All this can be easily avoided if everyone just chills out.

Now, on to the topic:

If true, it shows that there are evil people who like to sing violent songs about killing women and children. But applying common sense, it does not necessarily follow that the entire group is evil.

format_quote Originally Posted by Cognescenti
Sorry, bro, but it seems to me you do hate America. Your hatred appears all-consuming and irrational. The "I don't hate Americans, just their government" line is worn out and you had best find another rationalization for your blind generalizations. This is a variant of the "some of my best friends are <insert name of ethinic group, race, national origin here>" defence. It doesn't fool anyone.

Do you realize the government of the US is democratically elected? How exactly can a "handful" of people put a government in power when there are well over a hundred million voters?
Just because a government is democratically elected doesn't mean it always does what the people want. The member you're replying to is quite clearly separating the actions of the United States Government, of which he does not always approve, from the people of the United States, of which he does not appear to hold any ill-will toward. If the actions in question were each decided by a referendum of the American people, your protestations might hold water.
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wilberhum
08-08-2007, 06:58 PM
[S]Now, on to the topic[/S]
Actually the topic is to create and justify blind hate. :raging:

Nothing more and nothing less. :?

All those that feel a need to justify there hate come crawling out from under there rocks.:phew

No one who seriously looks at this can only see a scared dumb kid that made a mistake and is trying to justify it. Because if he fails, he will spend a long time in prison. :laugh:

So to really get to the topic go to :skeleton:

www.whyihatetheusa.com
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Cognescenti
08-08-2007, 09:11 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Muezzin
...
Just because a government is democratically elected doesn't mean it always does what the people want. The member you're replying to is quite clearly separating the actions of the United States Government, of which he does not always approve, from the people of the United States, of which he does not appear to hold any ill-will toward. If the actions in question were each decided by a referendum of the American people, your protestations might hold water.
I would agree that is the impression he is trying to convey and I doubt that he knows enough Americans to develop a personal hatred for them, but to accept the clearly preposterous thesis that the US Army purposely trains its soldiers to kill women requires that the believer possess a template that makes this crazy idea plausible. What is that template? It says the actions of the United States are inherently evil unless proven otherwise. It is as if I harbored a bias that Asian drivers are bad drivers (this is a common bias in the US)...then when I see a car with shaded windows backing into a parking place and smashing into the next car's bumper, I proclaim "*** ****** Asian drivers" even though I have no real knowledge of who is behind the wheel.

The US has a representative republic. There are no true referenda, but there are many checks and balances. For eg., the Congress could stop US active involvement in the war in Iraq tomorrow simply by passing a law that withdraws funding. They don't do it because they know the American public would tear them to shreds, possibly literally. So this childish notion that a small cabal of insiders pushes around 300 million people is more than annoying.

He could say "I hate the decisions the American people have made since 9-11, in fact I hate it so much I find it hard to be civil and can't be objective"

That, at least, I could respect, but not the wimpy half-statement.
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Muezzin
08-09-2007, 11:05 AM
Fair enough. As long as members attack each other's arguments, rather than each other as people, it's fine.

However, just reviewing this thread, everybody seems to have had their say, on both sides of the fence so to speak. There are also a lot of fights springing up, understandably so given the subject matter.

Since constructive discussion has been exhausted, and since people are and have been arguing, I think it will be best if I close the thread.
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