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guyabano
08-09-2007, 07:50 PM
As part of a week of special coverage on Iran, the BBC World Service has spoken to a number of Iranians about the situation in their country and their fears of possible conflict over Iran's nuclear ambitions.

Maheen: I have read about democracy... in other countries and would like us to have the same



"My name is Maheen and I am 60 years old. Being a mother and a woman I want to talk about Iranian women - what we have and what don't have.
I didn't have the opportunity to continue with my studies, but I love reading. I can tell you that since the 1979 revolution, women have become more aware politically.
I have read about democracy, freedom of religion and freedom of expression in other countries and would like us to have the same in Iran.
We have the ability to do great things. I think after the revolution a different class system has been created in Iran.
If you have money, you can afford to send your children abroad to study. But the majority of people have to work hard to get what they want and often it is a struggle.
Most of our graduates are women.
We also have a small group who is close to the establishment and they are the ones ending up with the good jobs within the government. But they don't necessarily represent all of us."

In reality, equality of men and women does not exist in Iran.

It seems, that women in Iran are much more educated than men. Why they simply do not accept more women to rule the country. I think, it would be a blessing for all

Source
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The_Prince
08-10-2007, 01:04 AM
LOL i had to laugh alot at this stupid comment:

We have the ability to do great things. I think after the revolution a different class system has been created in Iran.
If you have money, you can afford to send your children abroad to study. But the majority of people have to work hard to get what they want and often it is a struggle.

isnt that the case all over the world? or is this an iranian unique thing? its so funny to how desperate ppl will go to spread their propaganda using such nonsense statements. yes iran is so evil nowwwwwwwwwwwww because the rich can send their kids abroad while the not so rich must work much harder, i guess the whole world is evil then!

and lastly, these women asked for democrazy, not for you westeners to come bomb the nation to achieve this feeble goal, thought id add that in since i bet some of u western folks will interpret this as saying seeeeee iran wudnt mind getting bombed!

and 2nd lastly, men and women in reality are not equal anywhere in the world including the west, lets not kid ourselves plz. as usual more CRAP western propaganda to try and support their wars and agression.
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Darkseid
08-10-2007, 02:51 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by The_Prince
LOL i had to laugh alot at this stupid comment:

We have the ability to do great things. I think after the revolution a different class system has been created in Iran.
If you have money, you can afford to send your children abroad to study. But the majority of people have to work hard to get what they want and often it is a struggle.

isnt that the case all over the world? or is this an iranian unique thing? its so funny to how desperate ppl will go to spread their propaganda using such nonsense statements. yes iran is so evil nowwwwwwwwwwwww because the rich can send their kids abroad while the not so rich must work much harder, i guess the whole world is evil then!

and lastly, these women asked for democrazy, not for you westeners to come bomb the nation to achieve this feeble goal, thought id add that in since i bet some of u western folks will interpret this as saying seeeeee iran wudnt mind getting bombed!

and 2nd lastly, men and women in reality are not equal anywhere in the world including the west, lets not kid ourselves plz. as usual more CRAP western propaganda to try and support their wars and agression.
Yeah because in the United States, Britain, Australia, Norway, and Canada women have more rights than men.

Honestly I can see why you have little or no friends.

By the way, if you are truly not affected by any propaganda then you would know that there are always two sides to every story and that all media holds some form of fabrication including the stuff you claim to be authentic.
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guyabano
08-10-2007, 07:27 AM
IMHO, female Presidents are not so unusual and often bring the 'female touch' to a country. In many companies, (male) workers prefer to have female boss than men.

See also here for a list of female presidents:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Female_president
http://terra.es/personal2/monolith/00women2.htm
http://www.capwip.org/participation/...adofstate.html
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Encolpius
08-10-2007, 10:53 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by The_Prince
LOL i had to laugh alot at this stupid comment:

We have the ability to do great things. I think after the revolution a different class system has been created in Iran.
If you have money, you can afford to send your children abroad to study. But the majority of people have to work hard to get what they want and often it is a struggle.

isnt that the case all over the world? or is this an iranian unique thing? its so funny to how desperate ppl will go to spread their propaganda using such nonsense statements. yes iran is so evil nowwwwwwwwwwwww because the rich can send their kids abroad while the not so rich must work much harder, i guess the whole world is evil then!

and lastly, these women asked for democrazy, not for you westeners to come bomb the nation to achieve this feeble goal, thought id add that in since i bet some of u western folks will interpret this as saying seeeeee iran wudnt mind getting bombed!

and 2nd lastly, men and women in reality are not equal anywhere in the world including the west, lets not kid ourselves plz. as usual more CRAP western propaganda to try and support their wars and agression.
Translation:

"Typical kaffir nonsense. You fail."
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yigiter187
08-10-2007, 11:02 AM
dont worry ...usa will bring you what you want...but dont forget that usa uses weapons to bring sumthing 2 sumwhere...wnt it regarding this important detail..
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August
08-10-2007, 04:23 PM
We're talking about a country where women can't drive cars or go to soccer games. I think she has a point.
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wilberhum
08-10-2007, 04:39 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by August
We're talking about a country where women can't drive cars or go to soccer games. I think she has a point.
Of course she does.
Sadly, many men like to hold there women in an inferior status.
Even more sad is that some women aprove of it. :(
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yigiter187
08-10-2007, 05:56 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by August
We're talking about a country where women can't drive cars or go to soccer games. I think she has a point.
yes we r saying same things...usa will bring the freedom of driving and going soccer matches like it brought to ıraq democracy....dont worry muslim sis bush is coming for help to you:D
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guyabano
08-10-2007, 05:59 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by wilberhum
Of course she does.
Sadly, many men like to hold there women in an inferior status.
Even more sad is that some women aprove of it. :(
Revolution goes on in Iran, and nobody will stop it ! Maybe we will not be here anymore to see it, but our kids, for sure.

Iran nowadays remembers me the 60'es of West-Europe.
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Zulkiflim
08-10-2007, 06:15 PM
Salaam,

Another propaganda drive.

Seem just like pre Iraq war when the "iraqis" asked for democracy and equality..

I am very sure that the many iranian in exiles will be propped up by the western world to show legitimacy..

I guess too many muslim or moderate muslim are so "into" democracy that the forget the game of divide and conquer.

inshallah,this world is but a test,remain steadfast in faith,inshallah...
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wilberhum
08-10-2007, 06:24 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Zulkiflim
Salaam,

Another propaganda drive.

Seem just like pre Iraq war when the "iraqis" asked for democracy and equality..

I am very sure that the many iranian in exiles will be propped up by the western world to show legitimacy..

I guess too many muslim or moderate muslim are so "into" democracy that the forget the game of divide and conquer.

inshallah,this world is but a test,remain steadfast in faith,inshallah...
Right BBC is the ultimate propaganda machine.:skeleton:
And no “True Muslim” wants freedom, let alone equality. :?
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Zulkiflim
08-10-2007, 06:30 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by wilberhum
Right BBC is the ultimate propaganda machine.:skeleton:
And no “True Muslim” wants freedom, let alone equality. :?
Salaam,

BBC stand for truth?

Laughable..

And muslim's always want freedoma dn equality,,but not your version of it.

Your can keep your interpretation of freedom and equality,we wont force you to follow ours.
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wilberhum
08-10-2007, 06:38 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Zulkiflim
Salaam,

BBC stand for truth?

Laughable..

And muslim's always want freedoma dn equality,,but not your version of it.

Your can keep your interpretation of freedom and equality,we wont force you to follow ours.
Then you should stay/go to the Middle East. :confused:
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Zulkiflim
08-10-2007, 09:26 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by wilberhum
Then you should stay/go to the Middle East. :confused:
Salaam,

Ownder which coutnry does not ahve oil so as not to be "liberated and given democracy"..

LOL...

But dont worry,in time the west itself will change..Inshallah
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wilberhum
08-10-2007, 09:33 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Zulkiflim
Salaam,

Ownder which coutnry does not ahve oil so as not to be "liberated and given democracy"..

LOL...

But dont worry,in time the west itself will change..Inshallah
Yes we will continue going :thumbs_up
And the East will continue going :thumbs_do

But there won't be much change in our life time.
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Bittersteel
08-11-2007, 05:32 AM
We're talking about a country where women can't drive cars or go to soccer games.
what?isn't that the case in KSA?
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August
08-11-2007, 06:39 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Aziz
what?isn't that the case in KSA?
Where's KSA?
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snakelegs
08-11-2007, 06:58 AM
KSA = kingdom of saudi arabia.
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Bittersteel
08-12-2007, 04:31 PM
women in Iran are allowed to drive and compared to their Saudi counterparts,have better access to sports entertainment.
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wilberhum
08-16-2007, 08:33 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Aziz
women in Iran are allowed to drive and compared to their Saudi counterparts,have better access to sports entertainment.
I don't thik driving a car or going to sports is the concern.
From the origional link:
We cannot become judges. Even if women become members of parliament, they can not talk about women's concerns - and remember these are women who are working close to the establishment!
But today we have lost many of our rights. For example, if a woman is killed, her blood money is half of what they pay for a man.
Or in the court of law two women witnesses are equal to one man.
The law, with regards to most issues, supports men. Men rule Iran.
And when all is said and done the real issue is:
In reality, equality of men and women does not exist in Iran.
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The_Prince
08-18-2007, 01:33 PM
they dont need western christian men to come liberate them thats for sure :) so keep your noses in your own affairs plz, if you care for womens rights and so on go shut your strip clubs down, ban porn, as well as legal brothels and prostitution, oh but the thing is you western non Muslim boys love these things, and here you are sticking your noses in trying to "liberate" iranian Muslim women, we know what liberation for women is according to you guys: half naked women in bikinis acting like idiots on girls gone wild, strip clubs, XXL videos, bikini contests, etc etc etc the list goes on!
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Woodrow
08-18-2007, 10:50 PM
this thread is way off topic and seems to have become personal feuds. The thread is temporarily closed until the off topic posts can be removed.

Sorry, the party is temporarily shut down. 35 posts are being temporarily unapproved until I have a chance to read them all. some may be deleted and some may be reapproved. But at the moment they will remain invisible.

:threadclo
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Pygoscelis
08-19-2007, 12:46 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by The_Prince
they dont need western christian men to come liberate them thats for sure :) so keep your noses in your own affairs plz
Agreed. Let the Iranians take care of Iran's problems. The meddling has got to stop. It only makes things worse.

if you care for womens rights and so on go shut your strip clubs down, ban porn, as well as legal brothels and prostitution,
So you want to support womens rights by taking away lucrative job opportunities and restricting what women are permitted to do with their bodies?

we know what liberation for women is according to you guys: half naked women in bikinis acting like idiots on girls gone wild, strip clubs, XXL videos, bikini contests, etc etc etc the list goes on!
Absolutely, it is indeed naked women and women in bikinis. Its also women in suits, women in long gowns, women in military uniforms, women in judge's robes. Women wearing and doing what THEY want. That is what "freedom" means.

Oh, and I have to ask... XXL videos? Are those videos featuring the grossly obese?
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The_Prince
08-19-2007, 01:12 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Pygoscelis
Agreed. Let the Iranians take care of Iran's problems. The meddling has got to stop. It only makes things worse.



So you want to support womens rights by taking away lucrative job opportunities and restricting what women are permitted to do with their bodies?



Absolutely, it is indeed naked women and women in bikinis. Its also women in suits, women in long gowns, women in military uniforms, women in judge's robes. Women wearing and doing what THEY want. That is what "freedom" means.

Oh, and I have to ask... XXL videos? Are those videos featuring the grossly obese?
see you view my standpoint on closing strip clubs, brothels bikinis etc differently, just like how i view certain things you want with our society differently, therefore as you correctly said we should not interfere with each others societys, we can have friendly relations, but not meddle with each others societies or changing them. :)
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barney
08-19-2007, 07:08 AM
The Bikini as a Secular Burka? Hmm.
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guyabano
08-19-2007, 08:50 AM
Even, you belong to a secular society, you have to obey laws. Sometimes, I get the feeling that some board members think, that all western women run around in bikinis the whole day, roam around in bars, or whatever.
No, we also obey to laws, just with the difference, that these laws are human made. They say clearly, that when you like to wear a bikini, you must wear it in an appropriate place, like a beach, public swimming pool.

Further, the rights of women are more than 'just beeing allowed to drive a car'. The rights for women should also be able to build and design cars. Surveys have shown that women often look for different characteristics in cars than men, like color, texture of seats, while men prefer more power on engine.

Another point of equality would be 'household chores'. In the western world, you often see, that women are the breadwinners, while the husband raise the kids at home. How is that in islamic countries?

There is a pass I read on a website:

Regrettably, no serious efforts were made by Muslim scholars to investigate the various meanings of the words in this verse. The text has been even misinterpreted again to the advantage of men. This issue of 4:34 has been elegantly addressed by M. Shahroor. He concludes that capability and not gender is what determines who is in charge of the household affairs. Physically, men are more able than women (on average). Also, Traditionally and historically men owned resources and gave them to women or looked after women. Also, during childbirth and childrearing, it is women who suffer economically because they become less capable of attending to their work while looking after a child. These facts created a general phenomenon in many societies that men are more capable physically and economically. There are many exceptions to that, but in general it is true. The verse illustrates, according to Shahroor, that capability is variable among people and some men or women are more capable than others. Thus managing the household affairs is function of capability not gender. This is a sharp turn from all the other literature concerning this matter. We are faced with situations where a woman is indeed the manager of the house hold affairs, such a woman whose husband is incapacitated due to illness or a terminal condition or lack of income.
Taken from this website

So, Quaran does not determine exactly, who's in charge of a household, but still, you see only muslim men working in jobs in an family while the woman stay in household.

Further I found this:

It’s wrong to say that Islam does not allow women to participate in politics.

According to the Quran(60:12), Muhammad was told that when the believing women would come to him and swear their loyalty towards Islam then he must accept their oath. This narration on Quran itself justify the fact that Muslim women are allowed to choose their leader and can declare them publicly. In fact Islam also do not forbid the women from holding any designation in government.
Taken from this website

So, if it isn't wrong in Islam for women to go into politics, why we cannot find muslim women there?
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barney
08-19-2007, 09:13 AM
You can wear a Bikini in the middle of december in leeds city center if you like.
You will be cold and look stupid.

The imagry of women in the west doing that is Westaphobic propaganda with no substance built on the social and religious practices of not seeing a ankle and a wisp of hair showing being "alluring".
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wilberhum
08-19-2007, 03:34 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by The_Prince
see you view my standpoint on closing strip clubs, brothels bikinis etc differently, just like how i view certain things you want with our society differently, therefore as you correctly said we should not interfere with each others societys, we can have friendly relations, but not meddle with each others societies or changing them. :)
It seams to me that you should take your own advise.
so keep your noses in your own affairs plz
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Keltoi
08-19-2007, 09:47 PM
This is simply a matter of different cultural norms. In the West, the roles of women and men aren't as strictly defined as they are in many other places in the world. There is a difference between strictly defined roles and outright abuse or persecution. As Westerners we sometimes work with the assumption that women in Muslim dominant countries are forced to do certain things against their will. The reality is that in most cases these women are gladly following the norms of their culture and community. Yes, there are obviously situations where abuse and unequal treatment are blatant, such as under the Taliban or other extreme rule, but I don't personally think this is the general way of things in Muslim societies.

Just to inject some humor, I've always found that the more submissive a woman acts in public, the more dominant she is when the front door is closed. :)
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