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Curaezipirid
08-12-2007, 06:51 AM
Salamualaykum who can read this,

I have a question about these translations from Surah The Women at verse 157.

I have witnessed it often use to attempt to repudiate Gospel.

English Yusuf Ali: [4:157]
That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah";- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not:-
English Shakir: [4:157]
And their saying: Surely we have killed the Messiah, Isa son of Marium, the apostle of Allah; and they did not kill him nor did they crucify him, but it appeared to them so (like Isa) and most surely those who differ therein are only in a doubt about it; they have no knowledge respecting it, but only follow a conjecture, and they killed him not for sure.
English Qaribullah: [4:157]
and for their saying, 'We killed the Messiah, Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger (and Prophet) of Allah.' They did not kill him, nor did they crucify him, but to them, he (the crucified) had been given the look (of Prophet Jesus). Those who differ concerning him (Prophet Jesus) are surely in doubt regarding him, they have no knowledge of him, except the following of supposition, and (it is) a certainty they did not kill him.
English Muhsin Khan: [4:157]
And because of their saying (in boast), "We killed Messiah 'Iesa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary), the Messenger of Allah," - but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but the resemblance of 'Iesa (Jesus) was put over another man (and they killed that man), and those who differ therein are full of doubts. They have no (certain) knowledge, they follow nothing but conjecture. For surely; they killed him not [i.e. 'Iesa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary) <><> <>]:
English Pickthall: [4:157]
And because of their saying: We slew the Messiah Jesus son of Mary, Allah's messenger They slew him not nor crucified, but it appeared so unto them; and lo! those who disagree concerning it are in doubt thereof; they have no knowledge thereof save pursuit of a conjecture ; they slew him not for certain,


What is clear to me is that Isa was not killed. Yet there are many whom use this verse to support an argument that he was not placed upon a wooden cross among thieves. Yet to my belief there were many witnesses of that fact, and within the lifetime of those witnesses, the Jewish scribe named Josephus by the Romans, detailed the events of Isa’s life, as were relevant to the Roman written records of the time.

What I am in sound belief in Allah of is that Isa was placed upon a cross to die, and after it came to be that the sensibility of all those around him, had begun to believe he could not still be consciously enabled through his body, yet by only the same miracle as his whole life is in being a messenger of Allah, He is alive, and thus his actions were always proving to us that life can continue. The verse tells that he was not killed, and that is clear. Yet it tells also in these translations he was not crucified. My own understanding of the meaning of the original is that he was not condemned by Humanity to have to endure the passage of Jahannam. Yet that his mind could understand that men will traverse that mentality, became of his own experience, whilst his body seemed as though dead.

This verse is being used to portray myself as though ill for ever having believed it acceptable in Allah and as a Muslim, to enter a Christian Church and pray alongside another believer in Allah and in Isa.

Yet I am in knowledge of many born able to recite Qur’an in Arabic, whom are being born today in Christian families. A friend of mine is such a man, and has expressed a dislike of the idea of becoming a Muslim only because of Muslims whom repudiate the fact of Isa having suffered so as all mankind will be able to be forgiven.

I believe that there are many very simple reconciliations of real Christian belief and Islam, but that the differences which become apparent only to those whom want to shirk about their own belief, are being forced upon many believers. The reason that such falsehoods are being imposed is because of the money which the military investors make from war. Therefore it is wrong of us to let such shirks be enabled.

Yet many Muslims whom are in real faith in Isa, and believe he was indeed hung upon a cross but that those whom placed him there could not crucify nor kill him, fear being isolated as I have been within Islam, is a fact the Ummah must accommodate.

My full belief is that even in fearing being confronted by Muslims, whom want to depose me in my Islam because of my ability to believe in Isa ever alive, within a Christian framework of teaching, about Everlasting life; that I can still orient my belief in Isa better among Muslims than among those Christian Churches whom sponsor the falsifications in Islam. So I will continue in Islam, but I can not deny my belief that an attempt was made to crucify and kill Isa, and the failure of that attempt speaks of the immeasurable worth to every Human of believing in Allah through Isa. How else might we ever attain Jannah, for the Angel of Death will not show us the way unless we are of strong will in Isa.

So my question is about the full textual interpretations in tafseer of the verse I quoted above. Are there Muslims whom can provide any data for repudiating those Muslims whom have used the verse to try to prove that I am not a Muslim?

Specifically I have recently read the following I now quote from “skillgannon”, a moderator at the My Islam Web internet forum, named Musa, in a copyright post of text about Isa:

“There seems to be an agreement that the correct interpretation is that the resemblance of ‘Eesa (Jesus) was put over another man.”

The fact to my knowledge is that such a framework of belief is that which the Rosicrucians sponsor, and thus is exactly what we are asked not to believe through other verses of Qur’an. The same author goes on to write that Jesus actualised laughter at those whom had been tricked by such a process and had supposed him dead; but when my own lessons in Isa include that of a fact that He never laughed.

I know that perhaps those many other Muslims whom believe with me in Isa, will only be able to regard this post as naïve and to be overly exposing my self; but I can not lie in this matter. Neither am I receiving any protection from within the Ummah to cover myself in a Muslim identity whenever those whom repudiate Isa try to deny my Islam. The real Christians in my life are more likely to want to protect my mind, when my family will not, but are usually themselves also unable to lie in Isa and that is why they are not Muslim. My family are not protecting me because, although I am unwed, I refuse to accept the conditioning of making accusations, and also refuse to deny the lesson of Ka’ba; and this has been a life long experience in which I have proven multiple times I can not alone change my parents mind about my refusal to accuse. Today because I am a Muslim they suppose that their allegations against me are justified, but then I find that other Muslims are supporting my parents refusal to protect me, but such things as sending me personal messages in internet forums which accuse me of not being in Allah because of my faith in Isa. So it becomes very clear to me that a large shirk is taking place, that is engaging in the falsification of Isa’s life’s work, and it is exactly that shirk which Qur’an orients the mind against. Where I live I am not being made welcome at Mosque because of this orientation in my belief, and I am neither welcome in any Christian Church while in Hijab.

How can I respond to this situation other than to read it as a sign in Allah such as prophesy indicates will take place.

Inshallah I will be enabled in repudiating every Muslim whom has fallen into the Rosicrucian lies about Isa.

Subhanallah those whom portray their own belief as Christian and defy Isa through their own falisifications of Islam, will find their end with my own.

Ramadan Mubarak

Alaykumuassalam
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