Israeli apartheid at it´s best

[sister herb]

Desert Peace




August 11, 2007

UNBELIEVABLE!!!!!! One road going to the same place divided in two... one half for Israelis... the other for Palestinians.
And Jimmy Carter is an anti Semite for calling this apartheid?.... All he did was speak the truth. If this is not apartheid, WHAT IS IT???

As the little Angel above is saying.... "Please God, Free Palestine!" Let us ALL join in her prayer....

Read the following from today's New York Times for a full report...


A newly constructed road, conceived under Ariel Sharon, that will separate most Palestinian and Israeli traffic near Jerusalem
By STEVEN ERLANGER
Published: August 11, 2007
JERUSALEM, Aug. 10 — Israel is constructing a road through the West Bank, east of Jerusalem, that will allow both Israelis and Palestinians to travel along it — separately.


There are two pairs of lanes, one for each tribe, separated by a tall wall of concrete patterned to look like Jerusalem stones, an effort at beautification indicating that the road is meant to be permanent. The Israeli side has various exits; the Palestinian side has few.

The point of the road, according to those who planned it under former Prime Minister Ariel Sharon, is to permit Israel to build more settlements around East Jerusalem, cutting the city off from the West Bank, but allowing Palestinians to travel unimpeded north and south through Israeli-held land.

"The Americans demanded from Sharon contiguity for a Palestinian state," said Shaul Arieli, a reserve colonel in the army who participated in the 2000 Camp David negotiations and specializes in maps. "This road was Sharon’s answer, to build a road for Palestinians between Ramallah and Bethlehem but not to Jerusalem. This was how to connect the West Bank while keeping Jerusalem united and not giving Palestinians any blanket permission to enter East Jerusalem."

Mr. Sharon talked of "transportational contiguity" for Palestinians in a future Palestinian state, meaning that although Israeli settlements would jut into the area, Palestinian cars on the road would pass unimpeded through Israeli-controlled territory and even cross through areas enclosed by the Israeli separation barrier.

The vast majority of Palestinians, unlike Israeli settlers, will not be able to exit in areas surrounded by the barrier or travel into Jerusalem, even into the eastern part of the city, which Israel took over in 1967.

The road does that by having Palestinian traffic continue through underpasses and over bridges, while Israeli traffic will have interchanges allowing turns onto access roads. Palestinians with Israeli identity cards or special permits for Jerusalem will be able to use the Israeli side of the road.

The government of Prime Minister Ehud Olmert has recently made conciliatory gestures to the Palestinians and says it wants to do what it can to ease the creation of a Palestinian state. But Mr. Olmert, like Mr. Sharon, has said that Israel intends to keep the land to the east of Jerusalem.

To Daniel Seidemann, a lawyer who advises an Israeli advocacy group called Ir Amim, which works for Israeli-Palestinian cooperation in Jerusalem, the road suggests an ominous map of the future. It is one in which Israel keeps nearly all of East Jerusalem and a ring of Israeli settlements surrounding it, providing a cordon of Israelis between largely Arab East Jerusalem and the rest of the West Bank, which will become part of a future Palestinian state.

In a final settlement, Israel is expected to offer the Palestinians land swaps elsewhere to compensate.

The road will allow Israeli settlers living in the north, near Ramallah, to move quickly into Jerusalem, protected from the Palestinians who surround them. It also helps ensure that the large settlement of Maale Adumim — a suburb of 32,000 people east of Jerusalem, where most of its residents work — will remain under Israeli control, along with the currently empty area of 4.6 square miles known as E1, between Maale Adumim and Jerusalem, which Israel also intends to keep.

For the Palestinians, the road will connect the northern and southern parts of the West Bank. In a future that may have fewer checkpoints, they could travel directly from Ramallah north of Jerusalem to Bethlehem south of it — but without being allowed to enter either Jerusalem or the Maale Adumim settlement bloc.

"To me, this road is a move to create borders, to change final status," Mr. Seidemann said, referring to unresolved issues regarding borders, refugees and the fate of Jerusalem. "It’s to allow Maale Adumim and E1 into Jerusalem but be able to say, 'See, we’re treating the Palestinians well — there’s geographical contiguity.’ "

Measure it yourself, he said. "The Palestinian road is 16 meters wide," or 52 feet, he added. "The Israeli theory of a contiguous Palestinian state is 16 meters wide."

Khalil Tufakji, a prominent Palestinian geographer, says the road "is part of Sharon’s plan: two states in one state, so the Israelis and the Palestinians each have their own roads." The Palestinians, Mr. Tufakji said, "will have no connection with the Israelis, but travel through tunnels and over bridges, while the Israelis will travel through Palestinian land without seeing an Arab."

Full article: http://www.uruknet.de/?p=m35267&hd=&size=1&l=e

[Fishman]

:sl:
Different races have to travel on different parts of the road?! Sounds to me like something that South Africa or Nazi Germany would have done.
:w:

[ISLAMASWEENEY]

It Is Awful It Is Nazi Germany Revisited.

[Amadeus85]

:sl:
Different races have to travel on different parts of the road?! Sounds to me like something that South Africa or Nazi Germany would have done.
:w:

Different races? I thought that Jews and Arabs are Semites. So it is rather about religion, not race.

BTW i think that calling Israel an apartheid state is much too much. In Israel Arab muslims have political parties and are politicians in Knesset. Lately even one muslim became a minister in israeli goverment. Muslims in Israel can work, study, they can express their political attitudes. Muslims have freedom of faith, just like christians also. In Israel we have also black Jews from Ethiopia. So its much different situation than Nazi Germany or apartheid South Africa.

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[KAding]

It's motivated by security considerations though, not on racial or religious grounds. The fact that Israeli-Arabs are free to use any road, including this one does kind of prove that. After all, the issue here is citizenship, not religion. This is within a context of occupation and war, not segregation/apartheid on racial or even religious grounds. As such comparisons to South Africa and Nazi Germany are unfounded.

Not to say this should be approved of, but it is not what it is made out to be.

[wilberhum]

It's motivated by security considerations though, not on racial or religious grounds. The fact that Israeli-Arabs are free to use any road, including this one does kind of prove that. After all, the issue here is citizenship, not religion. This is within a context of occupation and war, not segregation/apartheid on racial or even religious grounds. As such comparisons to South Africa and Nazi Germany are unfounded.

Not to say this should be approved of, but it is not what it is made out to be.

When I lived in Texas there was a saying.
Don't let the facts stand in the way of a good story.

I conclude the author was a Texan. :-\

[sister herb]

Palestinians in Israel

The Palestinians in Israel comprise one million citizens, about twenty percent of Israel's total population. The status of Palestinians in Israel as a Jewish state is problematic. From 1948 until 1966 they lived under military rule. Nowadays, Palestinians in Israel are not equal under the law.

Here is a lot of articles about the truth of Apartheid state of Israel and how it treats its own citizens:

http://electronicintifada.net/bytopic/258.shtml

[Zilam]

Things will never improve between the two people until the US stops funding Israel, and also there needs to be equal representation of both views of the struggle there. If only those American Christians that support Israel blindly would see the death and destruction bestowed upon the innocent ones of Palestine. My heart pours out sympathy for the Palestinians, and is angered at the Israelis for practicing such hatred.

[wilberhum]

Things will never improve between the two people until the US stops funding Israel, and also there needs to be equal representation of both views of the struggle there. If only those American Christians that support Israel blindly would see the death and destruction bestowed upon the innocent ones of Palestine. My heart pours out sympathy for the Palestinians, and is angered at the Israelis for practicing such hatred.

The US funding of Israel is a serious problem, but it is not the only problem.
You do realize that the US also provides aid to Palestine, right?
Do you think that is a problem?

Of course, equal representation of both views, is necessary.
But both must want peace and be willing to compromise.
Without both, by both, peace will never happen.

Death and destruction bestowed upon the innocent ones of Palestine, yet no mention of the Death and destruction bestowed upon the innocent ones of Israel?

Your heart pours out sympathy for the Palestinians, yet you seem to have none for the Israelis as rockets are shot at them daily.

You are angered at the Israelis for practicing such hatred. Do you not see hatred when a Palestinian blows up a bus load of Israeli children?

IMHO you and others, who chose to look at one and only one side of the problem, are part of the problem.

You did say something about "equal representation of both views", not harely what you have done.

Peace will come only when “Peace” is “The Priority” for both.

[Zilam]

The US funding of Israel is a serious problem, but it is not the only problem.
You do realize that the US also provides aid to Palestine, right?
Do you think that is a problem?

Yes but there is a slight difference between funding Israel's advanced war machine with billions of dollars each year, and giving some money to support a few security forces in a crippled nation.

Of course, equal representation of both views, is necessary.
But both must want peace and be willing to compromise.
Without both, by both, peace will never happen.

And that's why we need to not support the regime in Israel. The people of israel want peace, but the government doesn't. If we can get them out, and get good leaders in, then perhaps the endless cycle of violence will cease.

Death and destruction bestowed upon the innocent ones of Palestine, yet no mention of the Death and destruction bestowed upon the innocent ones of Israel?

Of course it is bad when innocents die on either side. But once again, Israel has a very advanced military and can choose its targets wisely, but there always still high casualties. The Palestinians fight back with mortars and rockets that land wherever they feel like landing.

Your heart pours out sympathy for the Palestinians, yet you seem to have none for the Israelis as rockets are shot at them daily.

Israel has done nothing but screwed the Palestinians over, time and time again. Destroyed their lands, their groves, their economy and infrastructure. There is no chance for the Palestinians, as it is now. However, Israel still has the world behind it in almost everything.

You are angered at the Israelis for practicing such hatred. Do you not see hatred when a Palestinian blows up a bus load of Israeli children?

Of course their is hatred in such acts. But where do the acts of hatred start? In the problem of their being no chance of a decent life in Palestine, because of things Israel's government has done. I'd be quite angry myself if someone came on my land, destroyed everything, and then expected me to just sit there and take it. Of course, I can never condone violence, but I do understand why the Palestinians feel the way they do.

IMHO you and others, who chose to look at one and only one side of the problem, are part of the problem.

You mean like the entire american populace that supports Israels based on hookey biblical prophecy soley? They only see one side, which is that Israel can never do any wrong, because they are "God's chosen people". Give me a break.

You did say something about "equal representation of both views", not harely what you have done.

I give a view that is never seen in America, because it is ridiculed by racist American Christians.

Peace will come only when “Peace” is “The Priority” for both.

Peace will come when America removes itself from the problem completly,and when the Israelis over throw their hawkish government.

[wilberhum]

IMHO you and others, who chose to look at one and only one side of the problem, are part of the problem.

What more can I say?

[Amadeus85]

[QUOTE=Zilam;809253]

Yes but there is a slight difference between funding Israel's advanced war machine with billions of dollars each year, and giving some money to support a few security forces in a crippled nation.

As i know most of income that Palestinian Authonomy gets comes from USA and EU help.

And that's why we need to not support the regime in Israel. The people of israel want peace, but the government doesn't. If we can get them out, and get good leaders in, then perhaps the endless cycle of violence will cease.

The problem is that great majority of Israelis dont want their state Israel to be destroyed, so i guess that they dont want peace at all in your opinion, because as i know for muslims peace in Middle East will be established only when Israel is destroyed.

Of course it is bad when innocents die on either side. But once again, Israel has a very advanced military and can choose its targets wisely, but there always still high casualties. The Palestinians fight back with mortars and rockets that land wherever they feel like landing.

So now think, how many innocent muslims would die in Gaza or Lebanon if Israel really wanted to attack civilians. And the Palestinians deliberately shot their rockets in Israeli cities, so that civilians get hurt. Both Jews and muslims.

Israel has done nothing but screwed the Palestinians over, time and time again. Destroyed their lands, their groves, their economy and infrastructure. There is no chance for the Palestinians, as it is now. However, Israel still has the world behind it in almost everything.

I think that both sides want (dont want?) peace on the same proportion.

Of course their is hatred in such acts. But where do the acts of hatred start? In the problem of their being no chance of a decent life in Palestine, because of things Israel's government has done. I'd be quite angry myself if someone came on my land, destroyed everything, and then expected me to just sit there and take it. Of course, I can never condone violence, but I do understand why the Palestinians feel the way they do.

Yes Israelis were agressors then, but hey The Holy Land was always conquered by force by someone,by Jews, by christians,by muslims , then by Jews again.

You mean like the entire american populace that supports Israels based on hookey biblical prophecy soley? They only see one side, which is that Israel can never do any wrong, because they are "God's chosen people". Give me a break

.

You are quite right. But dont you think that muslims act just like those Americans, its just muslims dont see the israeli side..

I give a view that is never seen in America, because it is ridiculed by racist American Christians.

Why racist? What racism has to do with this? Israel is also supported by Jews and atheists in USA, not only by christians, although you are right that christians' support is very sighnificant.

Peace will come when America removes itself from the problem completly,and when the Israelis over throw their hawkish government.

Just see, Palestinians are supported by over a billion of muslims worldwide, so why do you want to take away the support of Americans for Israel.

[sister herb]

Salaam alaykum;

as I see the problem in Palestine - problem are not Jews but zionists. :uuh:

[wilberhum]

Salaam alaykum;

as I see the problem in Palestine - problem are not Jews but zionists. :uuh:

Zionists are a major problem, as big a problem as Hamas is.

[sister herb]

Zionists are a major problem, as big a problem as Hamas is.

Salaam alaykum;

Hamas too is problem? Even january 2005 Palestinians elected it to power? ^o)

[KAding]

Salaam alaykum;

Hamas too is problem? Even january 2005 Palestinians elected it to power? ^o)

Zionists have been elected to power as well.

Btw, I don't think zionists as such are the problem either. Only those zionists who don't want peace. Those zionists who still want to expand Israel beyond the 1967 cease-fire line. They are a problem.

[wilberhum]

Salaam alaykum;

Hamas too is problem? Even january 2005 Palestinians elected it to power? ^o)

Being elected doesn't mean there is no problem.

Hay, not only did we elect Bush, we (not me) reelected him. :confused: