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north_malaysian
08-13-2007, 09:00 AM
Malaysia's first openly gay pastor holds controversial church service.

http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2007/...Gay-Pastor.php
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jannah1
08-13-2007, 09:11 AM
What has been happening in Malaysia now. Its becoming a completely non-islamic state. I just hope Mahathir got nothing to do with this?:raging: :cry:
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Mawaddah
08-13-2007, 10:58 AM
So what do the public have to say about this?
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Amadeus85
08-13-2007, 11:09 AM
Protestant churches that support same sex unions are small minority.Mainstream christian churches dont agree with them.
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Chechnya
08-13-2007, 11:38 AM
a church for benders...? :uhwhat

whats happening to malaysia?
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chaste
08-13-2007, 12:21 PM
Originally Posted by Chechnya
a church for benders...? :uhwhat

whats happening to malaysia?
exactly what is happening to them??? :?
Reply

Mawaddah
08-13-2007, 01:35 PM
:sl:

Me for one I'm really curious as to what the government will do about it, seeing as they dont hesitate on closing down masjids :rollseyes
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Tania
08-13-2007, 02:07 PM
But he is not living right now in Malaysia. Its from New York, so its kind of imported.
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syilla
08-14-2007, 12:49 AM
lol...thats funny...

anyway guys...there are non-muslims. I wonder what christian have to say about this.

usually the muslims don't attack the non-muslims unless they talk about islam or about 'bumiputera' status.
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metalted
08-14-2007, 01:19 AM
Hmm...well my feelings are very complex.. I used to be rather anti homosexual.. but then I witnessed a crowd beat one up. And I realised that kind of bigotry is wrong..

I dont think they belong as pastors in churches and should not be married in church. But then I wonder if I am denying the right of a relationship with God through my faith to another person..... I believe that even the worst sinner should not be denied consul with God.. Can I say you can attend church but can not aspire to become clergy? is homosexuality the worst sin, or is it the most un appealling, ununderstandable to heterosexuals? Why should homosexuals be looked down on and killed and beaten, and banned from religion while murderers and thieves are not? isnt it a worse sin to hurt someone else?


I don't know, I dont want gay people running mainsteam church.. but if some gay guy thinks he can run his own church for other gay people why not? He is not following my religion as I understand it, but there are so many break away churches and sects within christianity there is little I can do or say about it..
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~Juwairiyah~
08-14-2007, 04:05 AM
:sl: wr wb,

Originally Posted by jannah1
What has been happening in Malaysia now. Its becoming a completely non-islamic state.
Was it Islamic in the first place anyways? Is Malaysia a Muslim country anyways? :-\
Reply

north_malaysian
08-14-2007, 04:31 AM
Originally Posted by Mawaddah
So what do the public have to say about this?
I heard only some protest from the mainstream Christians. The Muslims are silence about it. Maybe because it has nothing to do with Muslims?:?
Reply

north_malaysian
08-14-2007, 04:32 AM
Originally Posted by jannah1
What has been happening in Malaysia now. Its becoming a completely non-islamic state. I just hope Mahathir got nothing to do with this?:raging: :cry:
Mahathir is something in the past... of course he has nothing to do with it.
Reply

north_malaysian
08-14-2007, 04:35 AM
Originally Posted by Tania
But he is not living right now in Malaysia. Its from New York, so its kind of imported.
Before he held the first service in Malaysia, he was being interviewed by The Star... he said that he want to establish the church on Malaysian soil within 3 years time....

And on his first service last Sunday, 100 people attended.
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north_malaysian
08-14-2007, 04:39 AM
Originally Posted by syilla
usually the muslims don't attack the non-muslims unless they talk about islam or about 'bumiputera' status.
I'm thinking the same... who knows maybe in the future, non-Muslims are allowed to have same-sex marriage in Malaysia?

But I'm afraid if Muslim gays decide to join this church.....
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north_malaysian
08-14-2007, 04:42 AM
Originally Posted by ~Juwairiyah~
:sl: wr wb,



Was it Islamic in the first place anyways? Is Malaysia a Muslim country anyways? :-\
FACT: Malaysia is a Muslim-majority country.

CLAIMS:

* Barisan Nasional (Nationalists): "Malaysia is an Islamic country."
* PAS (Islamists): "Malaysia is a secular country."
* DAP (Socialists): "Malaysia is leaving secularism and becoming Islamic country"
Reply

north_malaysian
08-14-2007, 05:22 AM
Malaysia to Block Planned Gay Church
Monday, 13th August 2007.

Muslim-majority Malaysia will block a plan by the country's first and only openly gay pastor to establish a church embracing homosexuals, bisexuals and transsexual, a minister said Monday.

KUALA LUMPUR (AFP) - Reverend Ouyang Wen Feng, an ethnic Chinese Malaysian ordained in the US, caused controversy after saying he wanted to set up the church by 2010.

The government would block the plan, Tourism Minister Adnan Tengku Mansor told AFP, adding the country had always sought to potray itself as a "family-oriented" holiday destination.

"We have no intention of being potrayed the same way like other cities such as Bangkok or those cities in that league," Mansor said, apparently referring to the Thai capital's sex industry.

"We are here to be seen as a multicultural country with people who are good, excellent followers of their respective religions," Mansor added.

Homosexuality falls under a Malaysian law prohibiting sodomy, which is punishable by up to 20 years in prison and whipping.

Ouyang's plan to start the church had stirred anxiety, Reverend Wong Kin Kong, the secretary general of Malaysia's National Evangelical Christian Fellowship, said last week.

This was "because Christians do not want others to assume they condone such a thing," he said.

But Ouyang remained unfazed and urged a congregation of about 80 people -- including his male partner -- to "reclaim faith and celebrate our sexuality" in an underground mass Sunday.

"For some of us, especially our Christian gay brothers and sisters, we have expererienced first hand that Christianity has been used to persecute minorities," Ouyang told the mass, according to press reports. - AFP

source:

http://news.sawf.org/Lifestyle/41107.aspx
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beespreeteam
08-14-2007, 10:54 AM
Interesting...
Reply

north_malaysian
08-15-2007, 01:48 AM
Originally Posted by beespreeteam
Interesting...
yeah... I think Malaysia is the weirdest Muslim majority country in the world...:exhausted
Reply

Muslim Woman
08-15-2007, 02:05 AM
:sl:

Originally Posted by north_malaysian
Malaysia's first openly gay pastor holds controversial church service.

http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2007/...Gay-Pastor.php



oh Allah , either guide or punish them so that they can't mislead other people.

gays are now openly active in a Muslim majority country ....what next ?

they will have nude parade in the streets ??? :cry:
Reply

thirdwatch512
08-15-2007, 04:06 AM
Originally Posted by north_malaysian
Malaysia to Block Planned Gay Church
Monday, 13th August 2007.

Muslim-majority Malaysia will block a plan by the country's first and only openly gay pastor to establish a church embracing homosexuals, bisexuals and transsexual, a minister said Monday.

KUALA LUMPUR (AFP) - Reverend Ouyang Wen Feng, an ethnic Chinese Malaysian ordained in the US, caused controversy after saying he wanted to set up the church by 2010.

The government would block the plan, Tourism Minister Adnan Tengku Mansor told AFP, adding the country had always sought to potray itself as a "family-oriented" holiday destination.

"We have no intention of being potrayed the same way like other cities such as Bangkok or those cities in that league," Mansor said, apparently referring to the Thai capital's sex industry.

"We are here to be seen as a multicultural country with people who are good, excellent followers of their respective religions," Mansor added.

Homosexuality falls under a Malaysian law prohibiting sodomy, which is punishable by up to 20 years in prison and whipping.

Ouyang's plan to start the church had stirred anxiety, Reverend Wong Kin Kong, the secretary general of Malaysia's National Evangelical Christian Fellowship, said last week.

This was "because Christians do not want others to assume they condone such a thing," he said.

But Ouyang remained unfazed and urged a congregation of about 80 people -- including his male partner -- to "reclaim faith and celebrate our sexuality" in an underground mass Sunday.

"For some of us, especially our Christian gay brothers and sisters, we have expererienced first hand that Christianity has been used to persecute minorities," Ouyang told the mass, according to press reports. - AFP

source:

http://news.sawf.org/Lifestyle/41107.aspx
that is sick. I can not believe that a government has the audacity to publically be predjudice and deny our basic fundemental free rights.

I personally have no problem with homoseuxals.(I have at least 20 gay friends!!) And ask yourselves this.. Would you rather there be a homosexual Christian, or a homosexual atheist? You don't have to think they are a good Christian.. But, at least they believe in G-d.

There are many gay Churches here in the USA, and they are great places.. They are worshiping and loving G-d. Is that wrong?

I think that it takes a monster to be predjudice and hate someone simply for loving someone of the same gender.

No one has to like homosexuals.. That is fine. I know where the Bible speaks of this issue(although my interpretation is different) and I know what the quran says about it. However, that NEVER gives us the right to judge. That is between that person and G-d. We have no right to judge. We have no right to condemn, and we have no right to hate.
Reply

north_malaysian
08-15-2007, 04:46 AM
Originally Posted by thirdwatch512
that is sick. I can not believe that a government has the audacity to publically be predjudice and deny our basic fundemental free rights.

I personally have no problem with homoseuxals.(I have at least 20 gay friends!!) And ask yourselves this.. Would you rather there be a homosexual Christian, or a homosexual atheist? You don't have to think they are a good Christian.. But, at least they believe in G-d.

There are many gay Churches here in the USA, and they are great places.. They are worshiping and loving G-d. Is that wrong?

I think that it takes a monster to be predjudice and hate someone simply for loving someone of the same gender.

No one has to like homosexuals.. That is fine. I know where the Bible speaks of this issue(although my interpretation is different) and I know what the quran says about it. However, that NEVER gives us the right to judge. That is between that person and G-d. We have no right to judge. We have no right to condemn, and we have no right to hate.
Actually, a great majority Muslims are very silence about this... only the Christians that really oppose this Church.
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syilla
08-15-2007, 05:31 AM
I was thinking, why have to make the church specified to one group. Why can't they go to other church. I don't think they ban the church for others to come even for the gay

Isn't that kinda racist to create a church for only one kind of group.
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wilberhum
08-15-2007, 05:34 PM
Originally Posted by syilla
I was thinking, why have to make the church specified to one group. Why can't they go to other church. I don't think they ban the church for others to come even for the gay

Isn't that kinda racist to create a church for only one kind of group.
My thoughts exactly. Do we need a church for income tax cheaters? :muddlehea

How about a church for liers? No, that wouldn't work. Because every time someone acked when the next service was .............. :D

But seriously, isn't church for sinners?
Do thoes that never sin, need a church?
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Haidar_Abbas
08-15-2007, 07:11 PM
:w: thats shameful theyre destroying our morale fabric :raging: :sl:
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Amadeus85
08-15-2007, 07:40 PM
I think that homosexuals, as human beings, should be treated with respect and dignity. But i think that gays and lesbians shouldnt have right to adopt children or to be treated as marriages. We cant give them laws simply just because they want them. Two men cant raise children , just like for example a man without 1 hand cant be a F1 racer.
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wilberhum
08-15-2007, 07:46 PM
Originally Posted by Aaron85
I think that homosexuals, as human beings, should be treated with respect and dignity. But i think that gays and lesbians shouldnt have right to adopt children or to be treated as marriages. We cant give them laws simply just because they want them. Two men cant raise children , just like for example a man without 1 hand cant be a F1 racer.
a man without 1 hand cant be a F1 racer. What a stupid analigy.

Any law that makes one person superor or have more rights than another is immoral. :raging:
Reply

Trumble
08-15-2007, 10:34 PM
Originally Posted by Muslim Woman
:sl:

gays are now openly active in a Muslim majority country ....what next ?

they will have nude parade in the streets ??? :cry:
I don't know.. do openly active heterosexual people have nude parades in the streets there?!
Reply

north_malaysian
08-16-2007, 01:31 AM
Originally Posted by syilla
I was thinking, why have to make the church specified to one group. Why can't they go to other church. I don't think they ban the church for others to come even for the gay

Isn't that kinda racist to create a church for only one kind of group.
I think they wanna have their own church as there are no churches want to bless gay couples....
Reply

north_malaysian
08-16-2007, 01:32 AM
Originally Posted by Trumble
I don't know.. do openly active heterosexual people have nude parades in the streets there?!
Dont think so..... it's illegal to be nude in the public.
Reply

syilla
08-16-2007, 01:45 AM
Originally Posted by north_malaysian
I think they wanna have their own church as there are no churches want to bless gay couples....
is it true? then how come there is one trans couple got married here in Malaysia...and had full coverage by the media. Do you remember that story?
Reply

north_malaysian
08-16-2007, 02:41 AM
Originally Posted by syilla
is it true? then how come there is one trans couple got married here in Malaysia...and had full coverage by the media. Do you remember that story?
Do you mean the Chinese man who did sex-change operations and married another man?

Ok.... under Malaysian Laws.... once you're born a male... you'll be forever male... it's not ILLEGAL to change your gender ... but the government would never recognise your new gender. The same law applicable in thailand too (Where there are lots of transexuals).

But in Singapore they do recogise the new gender....
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syilla
08-16-2007, 02:47 AM
^^^Yup thats the one...if they can be blessed, i'm sure others can too.
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north_malaysian
08-16-2007, 02:52 AM
Originally Posted by syilla
^^^Yup thats the one...if they can be blessed, i'm sure others can too.
Maybe the church that blessed them considered that person to be a woman...not a man.

But this gay church want to bless man and man, or woman and woman couples..... that's why the National Evangelical Fellowship is so annoyed by this Church... they're scared that Muslims will be labelling that Christianity support Homosexuality.
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~Juwairiyah~
08-16-2007, 03:41 AM
Originally Posted by north_malaysian
FACT: Malaysia is a Muslim-majority country.

CLAIMS:

* Barisan Nasional (Nationalists): "Malaysia is an Islamic country."
* PAS (Islamists): "Malaysia is a secular country."
* DAP (Socialists): "Malaysia is leaving secularism and becoming Islamic country"
:sl: wr wb,

So it's just a Muslim majority, not really a Muslim country? You know, like Saudi Arabia, Indonesia...etc.
Reply

~Juwairiyah~
08-16-2007, 03:46 AM
Actually, never mind...i just found this

Malaysia is a multi-religious society and Islam is the official religion. According to the Population and Housing Census 2000 figures, approximately 60.4 percent of the population practiced Islam; 19.2 percent Buddhism; 9.1 percent Christianity; and 6.3 percent Hinduism. The remaining 5 percent was accounted for by other faiths, including animism, shamanism, Sikhism, Bahá'í, Taoism, Confucianism, and other traditional Chinese religions.[33]
--> Wikipedia
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جوري
08-17-2007, 05:01 PM
Originally Posted by north_malaysian
Maybe the church that blessed them considered that person to be a woman...not a man.

But this gay church want to bless man and man, or woman and woman couples..... that's why the National Evangelical Fellowship is so annoyed by this Church... they're scared that Muslims will be labelling that Christianity support Homosexuality.
Christianity does support homosexuality!... I think it is becoming politically incorrect to actually point out its deviance... it is wishywashy, not that I ever thought it was anything but.. A religion that conforms itself to the tides isn't religion or a sound doctrine... I had no idea Malaysia was becoming so secular and profane, la 7wla wla qiwta ila billah..

:w:
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Amadeus85
08-17-2007, 05:08 PM
Originally Posted by PurestAmbrosia
Christianity does support homosexuality!...
:w:
You should check what Pope says about it.:happy:
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جوري
08-17-2007, 05:19 PM
I believe he is ineffectual, all around not just as a pontiff and as evidenced by many Gay members even on board who conitnue to be homophile in spite of religious teachings to the contrary... He isn't even charming as a human being to command a that kind of psychological revision from a homosexual to sacrifice his lusts for eternal gain.
Anyhow that is my view of the western hemisphere's take on homoeroticism-- a religion that succumbs to the needs of its adherents is questionable at best!
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north_malaysian
08-20-2007, 07:26 AM
Originally Posted by PurestAmbrosia
I had no idea Malaysia was becoming so secular and profane, la 7wla wla qiwta ila billah..

:w:

Malaysian Muslims? -----> :blind::blind::blind::blind::blind::-\:-\:-\:-\:-\
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Tania
08-20-2007, 11:20 AM
Originally Posted by north_malaysian
Malaysian Muslims? -----> :blind::blind::blind::blind::blind::-\:-\:-\:-\:-\
What it means secular, if upset you so much :? :(
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syilla
08-21-2007, 01:16 AM
Originally Posted by Tania
What it means secular, if upset you so much :? :(
Because they tend to forget Allah and having fun all the time in this world. Make their own rulings on which is right and wrong. Try their best to ignore the ulama'.

:(
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barney
08-21-2007, 01:19 AM
Cant see any problem at all with it. I'm not gay meself, but whatever floats their boat.

they will have to reinterpret a lot of scripture to fit in with their sexuality, but meh...go for it.
Reply

north_malaysian
08-21-2007, 01:24 AM
Originally Posted by Tania
What it means secular, if upset you so much :? :(
I think a great majority of Malaysian Muslims are confused... whether their country is Islamic or secular...
Reply

north_malaysian
08-21-2007, 01:26 AM
Originally Posted by syilla
Because they tend to forget Allah and having fun all the time in this world. Make their own rulings on which is right and wrong. Try their best to ignore the ulama'.

:(
We have 3 types of Ulama':

1) Nationalist Ulama'
2) Islamist Ulama'
3) Neutral Ulama'

That's why Malaysians are CONFUSED...
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------
11-28-2007, 01:44 PM
:salamext:

Lol i don't think any state has a proper Islamic Law n stuff...
Reply

Bittersteel
11-28-2007, 01:52 PM
Liberalism Alert!
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