Egypt to charge Muslim Brotherhood leaders

[Skywalker]

:sl:

"by Emad el-Sayed
Sat Aug 18, 1:35 PM ET

CAIRO (AFP) - Egypt on Saturday began questioning 16 leading members of the banned Muslim Brotherhood after their arrest in the latest clampdown on the Islamists, the country's main opposition movement.

The men, including senior figures Essam al-Aryan and Mahmoud Hussein, were arrested in a police swoop at the home of a fellow Brotherhood member in Cairo late on Friday.

"This is yet another hard blow for us," the organisation's number two, Mohammed Habib, told AFP.

Hundreds of members of the Brotherhood have been rounded up in recent weeks, many at summer camps the state says are used for training to "destabilise the nation."

The 16 are expected to be charged with belonging to and financing a banned organisation and holding a meeting to plan illicit activities, a judicial source told AFP. The Brothers said they were arrested "at a routine meeting."

The source said the investigating magistrate would question the men, who can be held without charge for an initial period of 15 days, before deciding on the exact charges.

The Muslim Brotherhood, which describes itself as a moderate Islamic organisation that wants to bring Islamic law to Egypt, has been outlawed since 1954.

The group holds more than a fifth of the seats in Egypt's parliament, but its representatives sit as independents because of its illegal status.

Considered a moderate, Aryan is part of the Brotherhood's political bureau, while Hussein sits on the Orientation Council, the group's other major leadership organ.

Aryan, a doctor who often serves as spokesman for the Muslim Brotherhood, has spent many years in prison since the 1970s, and was last released in December 2006, said another Brotherhood spokesman, Ibrahim al-Houdaiby.

He said on the Brothers' website that Aryan's arrest "is a clear attempt by the regime to crack down on the moderate leaders of the Brotherhood who could push the group towards more moderate stances.

"Some observers make distinctions between his discourse and that of other Brotherhood leaders ... and claim that Aryan presents a moderate facade for a group which is not that moderate," Houdaiby said.

One of the organisation's new generation of leaders, Aryan was prevented on Friday from going to Istanbul on a trip sponsored by the doctors' union which is controlled by the Brotherhood.

The group made a stunning breakthrough in the legislative elections of November and December 2005. Running as independents, Muslim Brotherhood members won 88 of 454 seats in the national parliament which is dominated by President Hosni Mubarak's ruling party.

The latest arrests came as 40 other members -- mainly businessmen -- are being tried in a military tribunal, accused of financing a banned organisation and money laundering.

A hearing took place earlier this month on a military base behind closed doors despite protests by rights groups barred from attending the politically charged trial, which is set to resume on Sunday.

Amnesty International has called on Mubarak to allow independent observers to witness the proceedings. The defendants -- including the Brotherhood's number three leader, Khayrat al-Shater -- could face the death penalty if convicted."

Source: http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20070818...s_070818173438

As usual, our beautiful government is back to it's old tricks. They fear the Brotherhood so much that they've been regularly rounding up its members for years and putting them in jail without any kind of evidence. :thumbs_do

[Amadeus85]

:sl:



As usual, our beautiful government is back to it's old tricks. They fear the Brotherhood so much that they've been regularly rounding up its members for years and putting them in jail without any kind of evidence. :thumbs_do

I hope that MB will win the next elections in Egypt and rule the country.

[جوري]

:sl:

w3lykoum aslaam wr wb
I think once 'democracy' is restored it will be the noose around mubarak's head, because I know most of the Muslims are boiling and when comes time for a change, they will vote for an Islamic state...
fa sabron jameel
it is a matter of time akhi... as Allah SWT stated in suret Al mursalaat 77

إِنَّمَا تُوعَدُونَ لَوَاقِعٌ {7}

:w:

[Amadeus85]

w3lykoum aslaam wr wb
I think once 'democracy' is restored it will be the noose around mubarak's head, because I know most of the Muslims are boiling and when comes time for a change, they will vote for an Islamic state...
fa sabron jameel
it is a matter of time akhi... as Allah SWT stated in suret Al mursalaat 77



:w:

I honestly agree with you. I hope that in every muslim country there would be an islamic state with sharia law. So maybe since then, muslims won't put the blame on americans always, because they will have the rules that they always dreamed about it. Like Hamas in Gaza or Talebans in Afghanistan.

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[جوري]

I honestly agree with you. I hope that in every muslim country there would be an islamic state with sharia law. So maybe since then, muslims won't put the blame on americans always, because they will have the rules that they always dreamed about it. Like Hamas in Gaza or Talebans in Afghanistan.

'Satire is a sort of glass, wherein beholders do generally discover everybody's face but their own'-- except generally I don't think you have enough perceptivity to even master that with some dextrity...

lastly, I try my earnest to ignore your posts as I am not generally into being palaverd by a minor!-- so please don't quote me especially when my original remark wasn't directed toward you.. I hate getting spam in my mail box...

peace!

[Amadeus85]

I just expressed my views. If you find it interesting, you may discuss it, if not, just ignore it. Like you did.

[Skywalker]

I hope that MB will win the next elections in Egypt and rule the country.

and

and when comes time for a change, they will vote for an Islamic state...

Hmm...elections, voting...these two terms are pretty much invalid in Egypt. In the last parliamentary elections the government shot, yes shot, at people who were voting for the Muslim Brotherhood. In the last presidential elections, the main opposition leader, Ayman Nour, was sent to jail for some really stupid reason and as far as I know he's still there.

Democracy? Heh!

Elections? Heh!

Egypt is rated as THE MOST corrupt country in the world by several statistics. Just a few months ago they came out with a law that allowed the government the imprison anyone they didn't like without any evidence and take them to military court. Military court is pretty much a one way trip to a very long and in most cases quite painful jail sentence. Even the US was outraged by this new law, but the Egyptian government brushed it off as "we're helping you catch terrorists!"

I honestly agree with you. I hope that in every muslim country there would be an islamic state with sharia law. So maybe since then, muslims won't put the blame on americans always, because they will have the rules that they always dreamed about it. Like Hamas in Gaza or Talebans in Afghanistan.

Good point Aaron, although to be honest, blaming the US government in some cases is quite justified. Take Somalia for example. The Islamic Courts Union or whatever they were called actually brought real peace and stability for the short time that they existed. I remember watching this report on how they brought all the warring tribes together and made them all focus on one goal, as well as bringing order to the chaos that was going on in their cities. They took men like the crazed warriors and rapists that go around plundering villages and turned them into decent men. There was one man that was crying in the report, ashamed of all the things that he had done. People were actually happy for a while. The only problem was that the Islamic government was illegit.

Then the US and Ethiopia swooped down and took all that away (for the good of the country, heh!), ... and now look at where Somalia is.

[Amadeus85]

and


Good point Aaron, although to be honest, blaming the US government in some cases is quite justified. Take Somalia for example. The Islamic Courts Union or whatever they were called actually brought real peace and stability for the short time that they existed. I remember watching this report on how they brought all the warring tribes together and made them all focus on one goal, as well as bringing order to the chaos that was going on in their cities. They took men like the crazed warriors and rapists that go around plundering villages and turned them into decent men. There was one man that was crying in the report, ashamed of all the things that he had done. People were actually happy for a while. The only problem was that the Islamic government was illegit.

Then the US and Ethiopia swooped down and took all that away (for the good of the country, heh!), ... and now look at where Somalia is.

Thats why i honestly support creating islamic states in every muslim majority country.

[Whatsthepoint]

Thats why i honestly support creating islamic states in every muslim majority country.

It's up to them to decide.
I believe most muslims in Turkey, Albania and Bosnia do not support an islamic state. The same goes for Chechnya.

[MadeenJibreel]

There is a dictatorship in Egypt at the moment how long has Mumbarak been in power 15 years at least that is too long.

:sl:

He ain't gonna live forever - Allah ta'ala will take him sooner or later. The problem is, what people in Egypt can do about him? Are they gonna wait until Mubarak changes or what?

[Whatsthepoint]

Turkey keep there religion private.

too private in my opinion.
It's a good thing to keep religious laws from influencing our daily lives, but it is wrong to discriminate beople based on their religion.
A women who chooses to wear a veil cannot study in a university, for instance. this is plain wrong.

[Whatsthepoint]

Yes I Think Turkey Should Show They Religion And Be Proud Of It Aswell.

I think that too, however I belive religion should not have a large impact on the country's legislation.

[MadeenJibreel]

I think that too, however I belive religion should not have a large impact on the country's legislation.

Actually, Islam is the complete Way of Life and there should be no separation between "country law" and Islamic Law Shari'ah - in fact, Shari'ah should be the only legit law in all the world.

Perhaps there are streams in Turkey's govt that want to enter the EU - meaning entering the "dunya" and forgetting about what really matters - Islam, coz the solution is not Nato, EU, rubbish-blubbish - there's only one solution and that's Islam.

[Whatsthepoint]

Actually, Islam is the complete Way of Life and there should be no separation between "country law" and Islamic Law Shari'ah - in fact, Shari'ah should be the only legit law in all the world.

Perhaps there are streams in Turkey's govt that want to enter the EU - meaning entering the "dunya" and forgetting about what really matters - Islam, coz the solution is not Nato, EU, rubbish-blubbish - there's only one solution and that's Islam.

I beg to differ.:okay: It may be perfect and all that to some muslims but it's definitely not perfect to me and, I guess, the majority of the non muslim world. To me a secualar liberal democracy isa system closest to perfection. However, a perfect system in my opinion simply doesn't and cannot exist.
Sharia should be seperated from state laws just for the sake of those who do not support it. I am fond of the malaysian way where shariah only applies to muslims.
What's dunya?
Well, the Turks seem to think that EU is a solution. Islam won't feed you, Islam won't provide you with superior education, Islam won't let you move to Sweden and make 400 grand per year in a job that earns a couple of thousands in Turkey...

[KAding]

w3lykoum aslaam wr wb
I think once 'democracy' is restored it will be the noose around mubarak's head, because I know most of the Muslims are boiling and when comes time for a change, they will vote for an Islamic state...
fa sabron jameel
it is a matter of time akhi... as Allah SWT stated in suret Al mursalaat 77

إِنَّمَا تُوعَدُونَ لَوَاقِعٌ {7}

:w:

Well, there are a couple Muslim countries in which voting is fairly free, such as Indonesia, Albania or Mali for example?

Yet, have Muslims there voted for an Islamic state? It doesn't appear so. In fact, in all cases those favoring Islamic government and an Islamic legal system appear to be in a clearly minority? Not to say that couldn't change of course.

[MadeenJibreel]

I beg to differ.:okay: It may be perfect and all that to some muslims but it's definitely not perfect to me and, I guess, the majority of the non muslim world. To me a secualar liberal democracy isa system closest to perfection. However, a perfect system in my opinion simply doesn't and cannot exist.
Sharia should be seperated from state laws just for the sake of those who do not support it. I am fond of the malaysian way where shariah only applies to muslims.
What's dunya?
Well, the Turks seem to think that EU is a solution. Islam won't feed you, Islam won't provide you with superior education, Islam won't let you move to Sweden and make 400 grand per year in a job that earns a couple of thousands in Turkey...

Actually, your totally wrong: the very first Revelation of the Qur'an was "Read: In the name of thy Lord Who createth, Createth man from a clot...".
This means read, learn, educate, etc.
Actually, Islam will feed you: Islam takes care also of those who cannot provide (enough to survive) for them own selves: 4th Pillar of Islam is to pay obligatory charity, those who have excess in their wealth. Further, in Islam one of the best deeds is if a man earns for living from his own hands, there's no such thing as laziness in Islam.
Actually, nobody can compete with the first scholars of Islam; to become a scholar hujtaheed is probably much harded that to become a nuclear physicist or neuro surgeon.
Actually, your point about 400k €uropeans/$tinkers is pointless as "mo money" is a "national hymn" of a dirty west.

Let me tell you something, people in Quwait have more button that any other folks on Earth. By button I mean everything, if they want their fridge to open, they press a remote control. They need a drawer for their "few kilo" car keys, since perhaps most of them can drive a different brand new car each day in a week when they go to work. Want to get the best of this world? Go to Kuwait or Emirates, and you'll forget about "the poor Europe or the sick States and their role models...".

[Whatsthepoint]

Actually, your totally wrong: the very first Revelation of the Qur'an was "Read: In the name of thy Lord Who createth, Createth man from a clot...".
This means read, learn, educate, etc.
Actually, Islam will feed you: Islam takes care also of those who cannot provide (enough to survive) for them own selves: 4th Pillar of Islam is to pay obligatory charity, those who have excess in their wealth. Further, in Islam one of the best deeds is if a man earns for living from his own hands, there's no such thing as laziness in Islam.
Actually, nobody can compete with the first scholars of Islam; to become a scholar hujtaheed is probably much harded that to become a nuclear physicist or neuro surgeon.
Actually, your point about 400k €uropeans/$tinkers is pointless as "mo money" is a "national hymn" of a dirty west.

Let me tell you something, people in Quwait have more button that any other folks on Earth. By button I mean everything, if they want their fridge to open, they press a remote control. They need a drawer for their "few kilo" car keys, since perhaps most of them can drive a different brand new car each day in a week when they go to work. Want to get the best of this world? Go to Kuwait or Emirates, and you'll forget about "the poor Europe or the sick States and their role models...".

I'm not saying Islam doesn't support education. I said (well, metaphorically:X) that there are no well-known universities in the islamic world, whereas there are many in the EU.
Are you saying there are no lazy muslims?;D
I don't know what hujtaheeds are. Is it spelled properly? And I don't know whether it is hareder to become a hujtaheed or a neurosurgeon...I think it depends on the individual.
Yeah, Quvait, Quatar, Emirates etc are very if not filthy rich. But why? how? By selling oil, by practicing the western economy, by not implementing shariah laws upon tourists...
Well, I am a westerner and I know money is very important. The more you have it the better you live...in most cases.
The Turks don't want to move to Quwait. they just wanna have a higher standard of living in their own country. they want more democracy, more religious freedom (the state which will have to be improved, should Turkey join the EU)...

[MadeenJibreel]

I'm not saying Islam doesn't support education. I said (well, metaphorically:X) that there are no well-known universities in the islamic world, whereas there are many in the EU.
Are you saying there are no lazy muslims?;D
I don't know what hujtaheeds are. Is it spelled properly? And I don't know whether it is hareder to become a hujtaheed or a neurosurgeon...I think it depends on the individual.
Yeah, Quvait, Quatar, Emirates etc are very if not filthy rich. But why? how? By selling oil, by practicing the western economy, by not implementing shariah laws upon tourists...
Well, I am a westerner and I know money is very important. The more you have it the better you live...in most cases.
The Turks don't want to move to Quwait. they just wanna have a higher standard of living in their own country. they want more democracy, more religious freedom (the state which will have to be improved, should Turkey join the EU)...

FYI, the oldest (and still operating!) university in the whole dunya (= this world) is in Qahirah (Cairo), Egypt. It's Al-Azhar University. So you can pack the baby universities like Oxford, Princeton and the rest in a baby rucksack. Yes, those countries are rich because of oil, true, but not by selling alcohol to the tourists or by tourism itself. It's just a drop of water compared to oil. Why do you think that dirty animal who hears on name "bush" attacked Iraq and the first thing they did was to occupy the oil platforms?

The Turks (and every other nation) will only go down if they decide to move away from the Law of Allah ta'ala, be it a majority Muslim country or not, and can only prosper in this and the next life if they stick to the Law of Allah ta'ala. His Law is Universal and has no errors like the human invented laws.

PS I never said Islam is lazy. You'll find lazy people anywhere. I think you know exactly what I wanted to say. Muslims are not Islam. Islam is not Muslims. I hope that's clear?

PS2 a Mujtaheed is the one who can take out the rulings out of the Sources of Islam, one who is capable to give out a fatwa (a religious verdict on a matter). Many of these scholars knew not only the Qur'an by heart and the Tafseer (explanation of the Qur'an), but some knew even more than 100,000 Hadiths (sayings from the Allah's Messenger, peace and blessings upon him) and their explanations, they were master linguists of the Arabic language, they were well trained in other disciplines of science, etc.
One could easily say that what today's Doctors of Science know is a drop of water compared to the first generations (and later) of Islamic scholars.

[جوري]

Well, there are a couple Muslim countries in which voting is fairly free, such as Indonesia, Albania or Mali for example?

Yet, have Muslims there voted for an Islamic state? It doesn't appear so. In fact, in all cases those favoring Islamic government and an Islamic legal system appear to be in a clearly minority? Not to say that couldn't change of course.

When it is time for an Islamic state, it will happen.. all predictions uttered under divine inspiration have happened and continue to happen insha'Allah.. thus no one can stand here and say which year it will come about 2012 or 7089.. as that is a matter of the unseen.. We are all playing in the free time for now.. and fervency depends on your perspective, of course I don't expect this to have any sort of impact on you.. but in accordance with Islam.. it is happening as it was meant to, the worst of it and the best of it!

The prophesised conquest was linked to five signs that were not present in the conquest of Muhammad Al Fateh. It is narrated from Abu Huraira that the prophet (saw) said,

“The hour will never come until the Muslims enter a’mar and dabiq (two places in Al Sham and Aleppo), the army will rise from Madinah and they will be the best people at that time, when they clash they (the kuffar of a’mar and dabiq) will say to the Muslims, ‘stand aside, and let us fight those who took our property ….” The Muslims will say, “we will never leave you, fight them and you will kill them.” They will fight and kill a third of them and Allah will never forgive any one of them, and then another third from whom Allah will accept some of them shaheed, and the best of the shaheed in the eyes of Allah will be will the last third, they will conquer them and never be defeated, they will conquer Constantinople and while they are dividing the ghanima they hang their swords on the tree and the shaytan will say ‘jesus has risen among your people“ and they will go there and he will be the false messiah. When they go to Al Sham, he will rise and when they prepare the lines to fight the adhan will rise and the real Jesus will come down and lead the salah. When the Dajjal sees him he will melt like the salt and if he did not leave him he would have melted until Allah destroyed him, but Allah will let Isa kill him …” [Muslim]

Abu Huraira narrated that the prophet (saw) said,

“I heard of a city that half of it is in the land and half in the sea” they said, “that is true, O Messenger of Allah” he (saw) said, “the hour will not come until 70,000 of the children of Ishaq will come and conquer it, they will never conquer with swords, they will shout ‘laa ilaaha illallah’ and ‘Allahu Akbar’ and half of the city will be conquered.” [Muslim]

Imam Thawr ibn Ahmed said,

“The half taken by them is the half that is in the sea, they will say ‘laa ilaaha illallah wallahu Akbar’ and they will go to the other half and conquer it without fighting.”


Constantinople is an example of Dar ul Kufr transforming into Dar ul Islam and is now again Dar ul Kufr and the hadith of Muhammad (saw) prophecises that we will conquer it again.

Imam Nawawi said,

“With the first takbeer, half of Constantinople will be conquered, that part is that of the sea and then they will say ‘laa ilaaha illallah’ and they will open it all and enter to gather the ghanima, as they are gathering the ghanima people will come and say that isa has risen.” [Imam Nawawi in Sharh Muslim v18 p43-44]

The only difference among the fuqaha is that some say that those who rise will be sons of Ishaq (as) and others say sons of Ismaeel (as).

Imam Tirmizi said,

“Conquering Constantinople is with the big sign of the hour, Constantinople is the city of the romans that the Muslims will conquer while the dajjal is rising.”

Part of Constantinople was conquered in the time of Mu’awiyah and the other in the time of Muhammad Al Fateh, but that is not the prophecised conquest, it is a conquest like any other. Ibn Kathir said,

“indeed it has been conquered in the time of Mu’awiyah, he sent among them many sahabi, among them was Abu Ayyub Al Ansari, however they did not conquer it, … in the time of Abdul Malik bin Marwan, he agreed not to enter but to implement the law of Islam and to build masajid there.”

Ibn Taymiyyah said,

“The Muslims conquered Constantinople twice, first in the time of Mu’awiyah with Abu Ayub al Ansari and after that battle Abu Ayyub was buried.” [Majmou’ Al Fattawa v18]

Abdullah ibn Umar narrated that

“The Messenger said, “the first army that conquers Constantinople will be forgiven.”

That is the conquest by Mu’awiyah (ra) and among that army was Yazeed ibn Mu’awiyah, so how dare some people insult Yazeed when Allah has forgiven that army?

The second conquest of Constantinople was the one of Abdul Malik ibn Marwan who appointed his son Maslamah and sent an expedition for Constantinople, they did not enter but agreed to build the aghia Sophia Masjid (now a museum) and to rule over it by Islam. After that Muhammad Al Fateh opened it completely.

Moreoever, Ibn Taymiyyah reported in Majmou’ Al Fattawa v35 p138, said,

“There has been many times when the kuffar have entered Egypt and occupied it, …”

The best example of this is the Ubaidis, at that time they did not even let people quote hadith and they rewarded those who cursed the sahabah. They came to power and implemented kufr law, Salahuddin took back Egypt taking it back into Dar ul Islam after it had been transformed to Dar ul Kufr from Dar ul Islam.

Another example of Dar ul Islam to become Dar ul Kufr is the Muslim countries today, there is only dispute over Saudi Arabia because people are so attached to Makkah and Madina, the two sacred masjid. This is the argument of the fake ‘salafis’, who claim that to call Makkah dar ul kufr is an insult to the house of Allah.

We agree that the kuffar have entered into the Muslim lands and occupied and destroyed the Islamic State, that all the rest of the muslim land has become dar ul kufr, but it is about time that people accept what is the haq, that Saudi Arabia and every other Muslim country in the world today is Dar ul Kufr and the leaders of all of those countries are kuffar murtaddeen.


source for interested in reading more

of course it is easier to just go to your nine volumes of bukhari and Muslim

[SATalha]

Do you not see it in motion already?

[Whatsthepoint]

FYI, the oldest (and still operating!) university in the whole dunya (= this world) is in Qahirah (Cairo), Egypt. It's Al-Azhar University. So you can pack the baby universities like Oxford, Princeton and the rest in a baby rucksack. Yes, those countries are rich because of oil, true, but not by selling alcohol to the tourists or by tourism itself. It's just a drop of water compared to oil. Why do you think that dirty animal who hears on name "bush" attacked Iraq and the first thing they did was to occupy the oil platforms?

The Turks (and every other nation) will only go down if they decide to move away from the Law of Allah ta'ala, be it a majority Muslim country or not, and can only prosper in this and the next life if they stick to the Law of Allah ta'ala. His Law is Universal and has no errors like the human invented laws.

PS I never said Islam is lazy. You'll find lazy people anywhere. I think you know exactly what I wanted to say. Muslims are not Islam. Islam is not Muslims. I hope that's clear?

PS2 a Mujtaheed is the one who can take out the rulings out of the Sources of Islam, one who is capable to give out a fatwa (a religious verdict on a matter). Many of these scholars knew not only the Qur'an by heart and the Tafseer (explanation of the Qur'an), but some knew even more than 100,000 Hadiths (sayings from the Allah's Messenger, peace and blessings upon him) and their explanations, they were master linguists of the Arabic language, they were well trained in other disciplines of science, etc.
One could easily say that what today's Doctors of Science know is a drop of water compared to the first generations (and later) of Islamic scholars.

Age is not important.:okay: It's the current state that I am interested in. There are no famous, top10, top100 universities in the islamiv world.
And, your mistaken. Al-Azhar is not the oldest university in the World. It's University of Al Karaouine in Marocco.:okay: Anyway, you're right, islamic universities are the oldest, although european ones aren't particulary younger.:shade:
Don't think so. Oil contributes only about 5% of Dubaian economy. :okay:
I thought so. I can agree that a "perfect muslim can probably also stand for a "perfect human being". However, perfection is inachievable.:hiding:
Sounds very hard indeed.:uuh:

[SATalha]

Perfectionis achieveble and it has been achieved.

[جوري]

FYI, the oldest (and still operating!) university in the whole dunya (= this world) is in Qahirah (Cairo), Egypt. It's Al-Azhar University. .

I generally don't like responding to the awkwardly simple and provincial statements brought to us by some of the non-muslims on board.. but I can't believe anyone in this world wouldn't know that the whole concept of IV league was actually borrowed amongst other things from Islamic universities.. how funny are some people? as for modern day Muslims.. I still say we are doing much better than the locals ...

Middle Eastern immigrants were highly educated, with 49 percent holding at least a bachelor's degree, compared to 28 percent of natives.

Median earnings for Middle Eastern men were $39,000 a year compared to $38,000 for native workers.

they tend to be better-educated than native U.S. residents — about half hold bachelor's degrees, compared to 28 percent of natives. They also perform as well economically as natives — 30- and 40-year-old Middle Eastern males with a college education have the same median income as natives, and Middle East immigrants are more likely be self-employed.




Middle Eastern Immigrants in U.S. Educated, Prosperous, Study Says
Gannett News Service, August 15, 2002

(Also ran in Arizona Republic - 8/15)

WASHINGTON — Middle Eastern immigrants in the United States are well educated, earn more money than most Americans and are predominantly Muslim, according to a report released Wednesday.

They also are among the nation's fastest-growing immigrant groups, according to the report issued by the Center for Immigration Studies in Washington, a think tank that supports reducing the number of immigrants to the United States.

The report says the number of Middle Eastern immigrants increased from fewer than 200,000 in 1970 to almost 1.5 million in 2000. The overall number of foreign-born residents in the United States tripled to 31 million over the same period.

The report offers a rare portrait of an immigrant group that has received intense scrutiny and negative publicity since the Sept. 11 attacks.
Project MAPS, a survey of "Muslims in the American Public Square" conducted in 2001-2002 by researchers at Georgetown University, found that 86 percent of all Muslim professionals were concentrated in three careers: engineering, computer science, and medicine. Law, law enforcement, and politics accounted for a minuscule 0.6 percent. American Muslims, some demographers say, have also been voting well below their numbers in the population -- registering to vote at only half the national rate, according to the 2001 American Religious Identification Survey [PDF], a project of the Graduate Center of the City University of New York. "If they ever did play to their weight" in the electoral arena and in Washington, Muslims "would be a much more considerable force in public policy-making," says Steve Clemons, a Democrat who directs the American Strategy Program at the New America Foundation in Washington.

http://www.wilsoncenter.org/topics/p...ab_America.pdf
http://www.cis.org/articles/2002/mideastcoverage.html

but then we are accustomed to the regular unimaginative ill educated non-muslims on board too.. so I suppose it is only a fair exchange we think so low of them too!

:w:

[MadeenJibreel]

Age is not important.:okay: It's the current state that I am interested in. There are no famous, top10, top100 universities in the islamiv world.
And, your mistaken. Al-Azhar is not the oldest university in the World. It's University of Al Karaouine in Marocco.:okay: Anyway, you're right, islamic universities are the oldest, although european ones aren't particulary younger.:shade:
Don't think so. Oil contributes only about 5% of Dubaian economy. :okay:
I thought so. I can agree that a "perfect muslim can probably also stand for a "perfect human being". However, perfection is inachievable.:hiding:
Sounds very hard indeed.:uuh:

I said the oldest operating University, I'm well aware of the one in Maghreeb. And that one BTW is also Islamic. About Al-Azhar, there are literally counless number of students who come every year from more than 100 different countries of this world to study, that number ain't good enough for you?

PS It's not about the perfection - it's about trying harder, it's about competing in doing good works, not like the western philosophy will teach you: mo' money and less respect, etc.

PS2 What's that thing about the tongue? How old are you?

[جوري]

Do you not see it in motion already?

I do.. how about you? I have posted a rather large post here on the signs of the end.. but it was compendious.. there is no substitute for reading all the volumes.. but that could take yrs of ones life.. I rahter just enjoy books on the matter that are done sequentially...

:w:

[MadeenJibreel]

I generally don't like responding to the awkwardly simple and provincial statements brought to us by some of the non-muslims on board.. but I can't believe anyone in this world wouldn't know that the whole concept of IV league was actually borrowed amongst other things from Islamic universities.. how funny are some people? as for modern day Muslims.. I still say we are doing much better than the locals ...

Middle Eastern immigrants were highly educated, with 49 percent holding at least a bachelor's degree, compared to 28 percent of natives.

Median earnings for Middle Eastern men were $39,000 a year compared to $38,000 for native workers.

they tend to be better-educated than native U.S. residents — about half hold bachelor's degrees, compared to 28 percent of natives. They also perform as well economically as natives — 30- and 40-year-old Middle Eastern males with a college education have the same median income as natives, and Middle East immigrants are more likely be self-employed.




Middle Eastern Immigrants in U.S. Educated, Prosperous, Study Says
Gannett News Service, August 15, 2002

(Also ran in Arizona Republic - 8/15)

WASHINGTON — Middle Eastern immigrants in the United States are well educated, earn more money than most Americans and are predominantly Muslim, according to a report released Wednesday.

They also are among the nation's fastest-growing immigrant groups, according to the report issued by the Center for Immigration Studies in Washington, a think tank that supports reducing the number of immigrants to the United States.

The report says the number of Middle Eastern immigrants increased from fewer than 200,000 in 1970 to almost 1.5 million in 2000. The overall number of foreign-born residents in the United States tripled to 31 million over the same period.

The report offers a rare portrait of an immigrant group that has received intense scrutiny and negative publicity since the Sept. 11 attacks.
Project MAPS, a survey of "Muslims in the American Public Square" conducted in 2001-2002 by researchers at Georgetown University, found that 86 percent of all Muslim professionals were concentrated in three careers: engineering, computer science, and medicine. Law, law enforcement, and politics accounted for a minuscule 0.6 percent. American Muslims, some demographers say, have also been voting well below their numbers in the population -- registering to vote at only half the national rate, according to the 2001 American Religious Identification Survey [PDF], a project of the Graduate Center of the City University of New York. "If they ever did play to their weight" in the electoral arena and in Washington, Muslims "would be a much more considerable force in public policy-making," says Steve Clemons, a Democrat who directs the American Strategy Program at the New America Foundation in Washington.

http://www.wilsoncenter.org/topics/p...ab_America.pdf
http://www.cis.org/articles/2002/mideastcoverage.html

but then we are accustomed to the regular unimaginative ill educated non-muslims on board too.. so I suppose it is only a fair exchange we think so low of them too!

:w:

What non-Muslim westerners don't realize is that the knowledge as such is meaningless if one will use its power for this life only, if one cannot avail of it in the eternity, in the next life. That's why a simple illiterate Muslim man, who has even base of the knowledge of Islam and none of the knowledge if this life (although that not advisable for practical reasons and prosperity) is in much better position and shape than any Ph.D. in any other science.

PS Ameri-c-a is certainly not the right place to live for a Muslim soul.

[SATalha]

I do.. how about you? I have posted a rather large post here on the signs of the end.. but it was compendious.. there is no substitute for reading all the volumes.. but that could take yrs of ones life.. I rahter just enjoy books on the matter that are done sequentially...

:w:

While reading through the posts i sense that there is a deniel by people who think that Islam and people wanting Islamic Law is on the rise. Yes there maybe few muslim countries that have people who dont want Shariah, but they tend to be poorly educated in their deen and have been filled with western ideals.

[sudais1]

Well, there are a couple Muslim countries in which voting is fairly free, such as Indonesia, Albania or Mali for example?

Yet, have Muslims there voted for an Islamic state? It doesn't appear so. In fact, in all cases those favoring Islamic government and an Islamic legal system appear to be in a clearly minority? Not to say that couldn't change of course.

What have you read mate?

An Islamic Government was and loved in Somalia
Majority of Gambians want Islamic State
The people of Syria in Majority have called for Islamic State
90% of the Woman wear hijab now and want out Democracy
Same goes with Egypt
The Iraqi's are fighting to Establish Islamic State
Muslims of Pakistan want Musharraf out and Islamic state in
The Muslims in Chehchnya continue to fight the Russians to get Islamic State
Morrocco and Algerian people have stated their desire for Sharia due to the failure of Democracy.
The Muslims of Indoesnia carried a 100,000 strong demonstration and conference. Since the Stadium only held that Much

The Street Demonstration was much larger.

Muslims in the Gulf region want Islamic State but Can't speak out due to their Moneycrazy kings.

In short all Muslims want khalipha

[Whatsthepoint]

I generally don't like responding to the awkwardly simple and provincial statements brought to us by some of the non-muslims on board.. but I can't believe anyone in this world wouldn't know that the whole concept of IV league was actually borrowed amongst other things from Islamic universities.. how funny are some people? as for modern day Muslims.. I still say we are doing much better than the locals ...

Middle Eastern immigrants were highly educated, with 49 percent holding at least a bachelor's degree, compared to 28 percent of natives.

Median earnings for Middle Eastern men were $39,000 a year compared to $38,000 for native workers.

they tend to be better-educated than native U.S. residents — about half hold bachelor's degrees, compared to 28 percent of natives. They also perform as well economically as natives — 30- and 40-year-old Middle Eastern males with a college education have the same median income as natives, and Middle East immigrants are more likely be self-employed.

but then we are accustomed to the regular unimaginative ill educated non-muslims on board too.. so I suppose it is only a fair exchange we think so low of them too!

:w:

Amber (can I call you amber?:)), I don't know the situation in America, but I can tell you that middle eastern and arabic immigrants in Europe tend to be less educated than their bros in the states. Why? Beacuse our immigration legislation is not as harsh as yours, I guess.
Many come without any knowledge of the language spoken in their new country, they live in modern ghettos, districts with cheap appartments etc. They tend to be more violent and often indulge in crime. Great amounts of them live on welfare.

[Whatsthepoint]

I said the oldest operating University, I'm well aware of the one in Maghreeb. And that one BTW is also Islamic. About Al-Azhar, there are literally counless number of students who come every year from more than 100 different countries of this world to study, that number ain't good enough for you?

PS It's not about the perfection - it's about trying harder, it's about competing in doing good works, not like the western philosophy will teach you: mo' money and less respect, etc.

PS2 What's that thing about the tongue? How old are you?

th one in Maghreb is the odlest operating university...I know, did I say it wasn't islamic?
No, it ain't good enough for me. I imagine Al-azhar is not a real university but rather an islamic theology school. I don't care if muslims (it admits muslims only!!) from all over the world study there.
I know. I like Islam.:) In fact, that's sth I like about all religions.
That's the philosophy of the past few centuries. Western philosophy is much much more than this.

[aamirsaab]

:sl:
This thread is 2 or so months old and all the recent posts are off-topic.

Time for tubby bye-bye.