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manwithnogun
08-24-2007, 04:22 AM
I am in a bit of a problem....i have to be confirmed into the lutheran church...in 4 days....and its too late to quietly cancel the confirmation. i have even talked about it with my parents so i have to get confirmed. but i looked over what i have to say today and i knew that i could not say it. it just.....is completely against my beliefs. i am Muslim in heart, i know it. If i get confirmed even though i dont believe in it, while i be frowned upon by Allah, and other Muslims?
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Rafeeq
08-24-2007, 06:05 AM
Just do not go there bro. And tell every body that you are not christen any more. Although this act will froun up your previouse relegion friends but Allah will give very better regard. I pray for you anyway.
Masalam
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syilla
08-24-2007, 06:08 AM
Please brother, take care of your faith. Be strong in your faith.

Have taqwa and ask Allah for guidance.

Remember the Bilah rabah story. http://www.islamicboard.com/companio...ibn-rabah.html
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zarhad
08-24-2007, 06:11 AM
You know its a difficult situation you cant go through with it, how did you end up there, do your parents not know your muslim?
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manwithnogun
08-24-2007, 06:27 AM
i had not told my parents my beliefs before. For the last 2 months i have been contemplating all of Islam and now in the last week has Islam taken hold of my life. My parents know now of my beliefs but they say i still must go through with the confirmation. I do wish not to go and i will try full heartedly not to go.....but i am afraid of what will happen if i do end up having to get confirmed.
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syilla
08-24-2007, 07:44 AM
what will happen if you don't go there?
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snakelegs
08-24-2007, 07:57 AM
i'm surprised that your parents want you to do it even though you no longer believe. kind of hypocritical....
here's an idea.
i'm not a muslim, so if this is wrong, a muslim will correct me.
have you said your shahadah yet? if you haven't, i think that you are not officially a muslim.
so you could go through with it and when it's over, say your shahadah and be a muslim.
good luck.
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Malaikah
08-24-2007, 09:37 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by snakelegs
so you could go through with it and when it's over, say your shahadah and be a muslim.
I don't think that's a good idea snakelegs. :phew
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IbnAbdulHakim
08-24-2007, 10:25 AM
what exactly happens at this confirmation bro :?
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manwithnogun
08-24-2007, 01:58 PM
The confirmation is for me to state my belief in Jesus as God, which i cannot do, so i can become a member of the Church. Thats a very breif explanation of a confirmation but it is very much like the Shahadah. And confirmation completely contridicts my beliefs so i cannot say it I would be preaching on the outside that Jesus is God and feeling on the inside there is no god but Allah
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DAWUD_adnan
08-24-2007, 02:02 PM
just don't go, i know its really easier to say than to do but even IF they FORCE you, you can still do the shahada afterwards ( ONLY IF YOU HAVE TO)

Allah is Oft-Forgiving He Knows what is in your heart and that's what counts.
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Uthman
08-24-2007, 02:09 PM
:sl:


What did your parents say when you told them that you don't want to go?

:w:
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swanlake
08-24-2007, 02:19 PM
:sl:

Read the story of the family of Yasser. The wife, Somaya Bintul-Khayat, a slim, weak, 60 years-old woman, was often tortured by Abu-Jahl, until she died. Two days later, Somaya’s husband, Yasser died, leaving behind the young, Ammar Ibn-Yasser, who suffered greatly, as well. The disbelievers forced him to renounce Islam/curse the prophet and he did. He came to the prophet (saw) to relay what occured. The prophet , God's praise and peace be upon him, allowed Ammar Ibn Yasser to curse him when he was under torture [a reference to a story in the Hadeeth].
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manwithnogun
08-24-2007, 02:19 PM
My parents said that i had to go and thats its too late not to get confirmed now
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swanlake
08-24-2007, 02:23 PM
So if you think that you will get into big trouble (parents throwing you out, making your live misery whilst you are still dependent on them), do as they say whilst in your heart and intention that you believe God Almighty and that you'd never associate Him with others.
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IbnAbdulHakim
08-24-2007, 02:26 PM
bro im sure your parents would understand if you explain that it goes against your belief and you dont want to utter what you dont believe etc.


i dont kno if its allright to utter that because from what i understand you need to be persecuted/tortured FORCED to say it and then saying it is permissable.



my MANWITHNOGUN i think its best you approach a mosque and talk to an imaam about this, do you know any muslim brothers perhaps they can refer you?

dont worry worst comes to worst then perhaps its ok to go but then straight away declare to Allah that what you said isnt what you mean and repent etc...

im still not sure lol, sorry i wish i could help you more..
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IbnAbdulHakim
08-24-2007, 02:27 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by swanlake
:sl:

Read the story of the family of Yasser. The wife, Somaya Bintul-Khayat, a slim, weak, 60 years-old woman, was often tortured by Abu-Jahl, until she died. Two days later, Somaya’s husband, Yasser died, leaving behind the young, Ammar Ibn-Yasser, who suffered greatly, as well. The disbelievers forced him to renounce Islam/curse the prophet and he did. He came to the prophet (saw) to relay what occured. The prophet , God's praise and peace be upon him, allowed Ammar Ibn Yasser to curse him when he was under torture [a reference to a story in the Hadeeth].
but sis do you think its the same?

i dont see our brother here being tortured to say it... i mean ammar ibn yassir underwent torture before uttering it, thats how much he had stuck to it.. and then even after that he cried so much and felt terrible...
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Tania
08-24-2007, 02:28 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by manwithnogun
The confirmation..
Are you sure :? The catholics have only one time/year the confirmation and its usually in spring time - around april or may :hmm:
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czgibson
08-24-2007, 02:37 PM
Greetings,
format_quote Originally Posted by IbnAbdulHakim
bro im sure your parents would understand if you explain that it goes against your belief and you dont want to utter what you dont believe etc.
That seems the sensible thing to do.

I don't understand the parents' argument that it's too late not to get confirmed. Surely people can be confirmed into the Christian faith at any time of life?

i dont kno if its allright to utter that because from what i understand you need to be persecuted/tortured FORCED to say it and then saying it is permissable.
I think a form of persecution is going on here. If someone is prohibited from expressing their beliefs openly, what else do you call it?

Peace
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- Qatada -
08-24-2007, 02:38 PM
Hey manwithnogun. :)



First of all, congratulations on learning about Islaam. Without a doubt, it is the true religion which every child is born into, then his/her parents make this child turn into a Christian, Jew, Zoroastrian, etc. As the Messenger of Allaah (peace be upon him) rightly said.


In regard to your situation, you can either:


1) Tell your parents the truth, that you do not want to become Christian, and that you do not believe in it. You could even ask them questions which you don't understand, to make it clear to them that it does not make sense to you.


2) You could stay quiet, and keep your faith secret.

Let's look at the following verse (translation of the meaning):


Any one who, after accepting faith in Allah, utters Unbelief,- except under compulsion, his heart remaining firm in Faith - but such as open their breast to Unbelief, on them is Wrath from Allah, and theirs will be a dreadful Penalty.

[Qur'an 16:106]


Ibn Kathir, a famous commentator on Qur'an states;


The scholars agreed that if a person is forced into disbelief, it is permissible for him to either go along with them in the interests of self-preservation...

From the above, we see that a person is permitted to hide his/her faith if they feel under threat, i.e. if they will receive torture for making their acceptance of Islaam apparent.



However, a person can also make his/her Islaam apparent, and refuse the other religion.


Ibn Kathir continues;

...or to refuse, as Bilal (a companion of Allah's Messenger) did when they were inflicting all sorts of torture on him, even placing a huge rock on his chest in the intense heat and telling him to admit others as partners with Allah. He refused, saying, "Alone, Alone.''


Similarly, when the Liar Musaylimah asked Habib bin Zayd Al-Ansari, "Do you bear witness that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah'' He said, "Yes.'' Then Musaylimah asked, "Do you bear witness that I am the messenger of Allah'' Habib said, "I do not hear you.'' Musaylimah kept cutting him, piece by piece, but he remained steadfast insisting on his words.


[SOURCE]

Musaylimah was a false and lying man, who also claimed to be a Prophet at the time of Muhammad (peace be upon him) - the true final Messenger of Allaah. Musaylimah would slice a piece off Zayd Al-Ansari, each time he denied that Musaylimah (the liar) was a Prophet. Zayd died as a martyr, God willing - because he remained firm upon the truth without giving up his religion, even though he was severely persecuted.



Know that your family will not be with you on the Day of Judgement, when every soul Allaah has created will return to Him. Allaah says (translation of the meaning):


One Day every soul will come up struggling for itself, and every soul will be recompensed (fully) for all its actions, and none will be unjustly dealt with.

[Qur'an 16: 111]

So even if your family gives you a hard time, know that they cannot harm you or benefit you except by Allaah's will. And He is All-Aware, and the responder of those who pray to Him, at times of hardship and ease.



Pray to Allaah to provide a way out for you from this hardship, and we will do the same. You could ask your parents to maybe delay this, telling them that you do not want to be a hypocrite. Maybe as time progresses, Allaah will open their eyes and make them abit more relaxed also? And this might be the time when you can gradually show the goodness of Islaam? Maybe through time, Allaah will open their heart to it also?

Right now, just pray to Allaah because He is the responder of prayers.


When My servants ask thee concerning Me, I am indeed close (to them): I listen to the prayer of every supplicant when he calleth on Me: Let them also, with a will, Listen to My call, and believe in Me: That they may walk in the right way.

[Qur'an 2: 186]

Place your trust in Allaah, and know that nothing happens except by His decree. He is the All-Knowing, All Aware. And He is the responder of prayers.







Peace.
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Woodrow
08-24-2007, 02:56 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by manwithnogun
I am in a bit of a problem....i have to be confirmed into the lutheran church...in 4 days....and its too late to quietly cancel the confirmation. i have even talked about it with my parents so i have to get confirmed. but i looked over what i have to say today and i knew that i could not say it. it just.....is completely against my beliefs. i am Muslim in heart, i know it. If i get confirmed even though i dont believe in it, while i be frowned upon by Allah, and other Muslims?
This is a very difficult issue. Part of it is your need to be obediant to your parents and to not disrupt their plans. But, it is hypocritical to profess the acceptance of what you do not believe.

I am not certain as to the format for confirmation as a Lutheran. Is it done as a group or does each person confirm and acknowledge as an individual like Catholics do?

If you do not have to testify in an an audible voice, simply whisper what you honestly believe and repeat the Shahadah, quietly, rather than the words you are expected to say.
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Woodrow
08-24-2007, 03:02 PM
A more drastic approach you can take is contact the pastor of the church and let him know that you can not say the confirmation oath as you do not believe it. he will get angry, but if he is an honest pastor he will not permit you to be confirmed.
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manwithnogun
08-26-2007, 06:12 AM
Tomorrow is my confirmation and still my parents are making me go........please if you will keep me in your prayers and pray Allah may give me the strength to deny this confirmation into christianity........i know i must not allow my self to be confirmed......i pray for courage to take into action my beliefs and not undertake confirmation......
thank you everyone for all your advise and responses, they have given me more courage and have helped me see that i must act in the Will of Allah. thank you, i shall keep all of you in my prayers
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snakelegs
08-28-2007, 01:35 AM
so tell us, how did it go? either way, i bet you're glad it's over!
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barney
08-28-2007, 01:52 AM
Your Parents are talking rubbish. I'm assuming that because you are using the internet and can type accuratly that you are a teenager living at home.
You have rights.
Your Parents CANNOT force you to be confimed. There is NOTHING they can do. Just say, I dont beleive Jesus is god and dont go.
If you fear that they will threaten violence, then this is a family you need to get the heck away from. They sound like they are amongst the worst kind of religious extremists. seek help from Childline if your in the UK, in the USA i'm sure there is similar helplines.
Religion is a personal choice as a human being. Your parents are Totally utterly and irrevokably 100% WRONG. Please accept this, they cannot tell you what to think or what to beleive. You are a person with your own mind, what they are doing is barbaric, and utterly unchristian)

I Hope you can emerge from this stronger. Do not put yourself at risk.
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manwithnogun
08-28-2007, 02:29 AM
i talked with my parents a lot beforehand and well....i basically figured out that they were scared of my beliefs.....they didnt know anything about Islam and so whenever i would try to talk they would completely dimiss the subject...but I ended up having to go and i was nearly just about to walk away from the church before the service but well i figured it would bring too much trouble later....so i got confirmed but i spent most of the service uttering the Shahadah and praying. I felt terrible when i was confirmed like i was helpless in committing this sin and i wish i could have done better to get out of it.........but i hope this feeling will come to pass because I know my heart still stands with Islam, but i do feel terrible for what i said
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barney
08-28-2007, 02:33 AM
Dont sweat it, if you diddnt beleive it then it's only words.

Your Parents need a check up from the neck up. Fancy Physically forcing their own kid to do something like that?

:(
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snakelegs
08-28-2007, 03:24 AM
i think you know what is in your heart and i think god does too.
at least it's over!
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glo
08-30-2007, 09:01 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by manwithnogun
i talked with my parents a lot beforehand and well....i basically figured out that they were scared of my beliefs.....they didnt know anything about Islam and so whenever i would try to talk they would completely dimiss the subject...but I ended up having to go and i was nearly just about to walk away from the church before the service but well i figured it would bring too much trouble later....so i got confirmed but i spent most of the service uttering the Shahadah and praying. I felt terrible when i was confirmed like i was helpless in committing this sin and i wish i could have done better to get out of it.........but i hope this feeling will come to pass because I know my heart still stands with Islam, but i do feel terrible for what i said
I am so sorry that you went through with this, manwithnogun.

The whole point of being confirmed is to reaffirm your personal beliefs.
Declaring publically something you don't truly belief is being dishonest to yourself and to everbody else present.

No wonder you are feeling guilty...
But you know, the good thing is that God is forgiving ... certainly more forgiving than your parents, your priest and the church members are likely to be! :)

If in your heart you feel you have made your choice, and you had to lie because you were under pressure, then just ask God's forgiveness and he will grant it.
Don't feel bad anymore, God knows your heart and he knows your struggles.

Peace
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glo
08-31-2007, 08:25 PM
As an add-on, this thread has made me think how dangerous it is when affirmations of faith just become something that is expected by parents, clergy or the congregation ... :(
I am sure that this applies to people from all faiths.

Like you, manwithnogun, I remember preparing for my confirmation when I was 13, and nobody EVER asked me whether I truly believed or even understood what it was all about ...
It was merely a tradition, something that was expected of me and of all other children in our congregation.
Like you, I went through with it, but at the time it meant nothing.

Only four years ago did I really in my heart and soul come to the Christian faith, and only then did I affirm my faith publically with knowledge and understanding.

Affirming our faith (whatever that may be) is something we should all do daily - and never half-heartedly or without due respect and thought.
Telling God what we believe about him and how we hope to serve him, is something of great importance and shouldn't be done lightly!
That should be made very clear to anybody who is preparing to get baptised, confirmed, say Shahadah, or whatever else - rather than coaxing people into something they don't really believe or understand. :thumbs_do

Peace
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chaste
08-31-2007, 10:49 PM
if you think deep down you are muslim in heart then don't go. I pray for you that you stay on the right path
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