'Blasphemous' balls anger Afghans

[guyabano]

A demonstration has been held in south- east Afghanistan accusing US troops of insulting Islam after they distributed footballs bearing the name of Allah.

The balls showed the Saudi Arabian flag which features the Koranic declaration of faith.
The US military said the idea had been to give something for Afghan children to enjoy and they did not realise it would cause offence.
The footballs were dropped from a helicopter in Khost province.
Some displayed flags from countries all over the world, including Saudi Arabia, which features the shahada, one of the five pillars of Islam - the declaration of faith.
The words, which include the name of Allah, are revered, and Muslims are very sensitive about where and how they can be used.
Saudi Arabia has complained to the World Cup's ruling body in the past about the use of its flag on footballs.
Mullahs in Afghanistan criticised the US forces for their insensitivity, and around 100 people held a demonstration in Khost.
Afghan MP Mirwais Yasini said: "To have a verse of the Koran on something you kick with your foot would be an insult in any Muslim country around the world."
A spokeswoman for the US forces in Afghanistan said they made "significant efforts to work with local leaders, mullahs and elders to respect their culture" and distributing the footballs was an effort to give a gift the Afghan children would enjoy.
"Unfortunately," she added, "there was something on those footballs we didn't immediately understand to be offensive and we regret that as we do not want to offend."

Source

I'm pretty sure, they had no bad intentions about Allah, when they drop those balls for Afghan Kids. Really silly

[Woodrow]

disasters occur when any program is cross culture or cross languages. It is very difficult to verify that what is done or said will not have the wrong impact.

A few years ago Chevrolet introduced the Nova into Mexico. It did not sell at all. Finaly somebody realized that No va is Spanish for Doesn't go. So the Cheverolet Nova ads were read by the Mexicans as Chevrolet, does not go.

The moral of the story is, when you attempt to do something for people of another culture or language, get advice from people that live the culture and/or language.

[جوري]

If this is true, it wouldn't be the first time.. when I lived in Saudi Arabia-- in the market places [(Jellies) plastic see through shoes] were very popular-- it was discovered shortly after that when you walk it leaves Allah in Arabic on the ground.. thus people boyoctted them.. my sister had one she added some ink and made an impression on a white paper and it was true.. we had to incenerate those shoes, but it wasn't the first time.. they are always discovered.. the Jellies were made in China though, so we are not quite sure who was behind it..
:w:

[Woodrow]

If this is true, it wouldn't be the first time.. when I lived in Saudi Arabia-- in the market places [(Jellies) plastic see through shoes] were very popular-- it was discovered shortly after that when you walk it leaves Allah in Arabic on the ground.. thus people boyoctted them.. my sister had one she added some ink and made an impression on a white paper and it was true.. we had to incenerate those shoes, but it wasn't the first time.. they are always discovered.. the Jellies were made in China though, so we are not quite sure who was behind it..
:w:

My personal feeling is the footballs were to0 obvious. That most likely was an error in understanding and poor judgment.

the Jellies on the other hand seem to be too subtle and seem to be a sneaky way to get an insult spread before anybody noticed it.

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[ahsan28]

If at all they planned to distribute footballs, what was the need to show the flag? Its simply out of question that they didn't have any idea about it. A deliberate attempt to mock Islam perhaps, the least I can say.

[Zulkiflim]

Salaam,

For me i have no doubt about the intentions.

The US did it with intent to deride Islam and the Quran and Prophet.

Can anyone seriously tell me that putting Quranic verses onto a ball is RIGHT?
Dont they read the news of how the world reacted when pictures of the Prophet was printed?

A mockery...

[guyabano]

A spokeswoman for the US forces in Afghanistan said they made "significant efforts to work with local leaders, mullahs and elders to respect their culture"

Did nobody read this part? There was no bad intention, honestly

[Trumble]

For me i have no doubt about the intentions.

The US did it with intent to deride Islam and the Quran and Prophet.

Of course they didn't. Nobody put 'Quran'ic verses' on anything, at least intentionally. The photo shows that the balls were covered in flags-of-the-world, the Saudi flag was just one of them. Whoever made the footballs had no idea what the words were or that they might cause 'offence' appearing in this context - and whoever that was was far more likely to be from China or Taiwan than the US. The Americans just bought the footballs to give the kids.

As to PA's Jellies, I'd bet my mortgage that there was no intent to insult there, either. Why are you guys so paranoid? If the word concerned had rather more letters, or just different ones, it wouldn't have 'appeared' on the shoes, just as it wouldn't appear in trees, clouds, and cut melon slices (photos of all of which I've seen on these boards).

[guyabano]

Of course they didn't. Nobody put 'Quran'ic verses' on anything, at least intentionally. The photo shows that the balls were covered in flags-of-the-world, the Saudi flag was just one of them. Whoever made the footballs had no idea what the words were or that they might cause 'offence' appearing in this context - and whoever that was was far more likely to be from China or Taiwan than the US. The Americans just bought the footballs to give the kids.

As to PA's Jellies, I'd bet my mortgage that there was no intent to insult there, either. Why are you guys so paranoid? If the word concerned had rather more letters, or just different ones, it wouldn't have 'appeared' on the shoes, just as it wouldn't appear in trees, clouds, and cut melon slices (photos of all of which I've seen on these boards).

It's already a huge paranoia. When you can see on a cow the sign of Allah (which I saw in another thread) then everybody is cheering and is amazed about the creatures of Allah. Nobody would insult this cow for 'blasphemie' because she abused the name of Allah by tatooing it on her body

[Md Mashud]

I'm pretty sure, they had no bad intentions about Allah, when they drop those balls for Afghan Kids. Really silly

The only thing silly would be, to put holy words on a football - what is the thinking behind this? Exactly, no thought was made, thus being silly. It is not clever to put Allah or Quranic sentences on somthing you kick about, its not hard to understand is it? This is not targetting intention, rather action - which they duly have the right to.

It's already a huge paranoia. When you can see on a cow the sign of Allah (which I saw in another thread) then everybody is cheering and is amazed about the creatures of Allah. Nobody would insult this cow for 'blasphemie' because she abused the name of Allah by tatooing it on her body

There is a huge difference here - you have gone into a tangent of misunderstanding. The engraving of Quranic ayats and Allahs name on a football - is not only a manmade action, but its also on a manmade item. No one really tatooed a cow - and if anyone branded a cow with Allahs name - I am pretty sure no one would be cheering or encouraging it - while Im not here to discuss whether it really has a meaning or if its just coincidence Allah is written on a cow (if you believe it or not) - the reasoning behind this is that its seen as a sign of how Allah is the owner and creator of all things. Clearly this is very different from having it on a football so...

I hope that clears things up.

[KAding]

The only thing silly would be, to put holy words on a football - what is the thinking behind this? Exactly, no thought was made, thus being silly. It is not clever to put Allah or Quranic sentences on somthing you kick about, its not hard to understand is it? This is not targetting intention, rather action - which they duly have the right to.

The designer of the football put flags on the ball, including the Saudi flag. Putting national flags on footballs is quite common, since it is often played internationally.

Do you honestly think non-Muslims have any idea what is written on the Saudi flag? Like Trumble noted, the Americans probably didn't even design these balls, they just buy on the market. They are indeed most likely made in China or some other non-Muslim industrial country.

[*Aaminah*]

Well I really don't think the intention to insult us was there at all, I really don't - but if it was then "the joke's on them", cos they've made themselves look incredibly stupid! :giggling:

[Woodrow]

Well I really don't think the intention to insult us was there at all, I really don't - but if it was then "the joke's on them", cos they've made themselves look incredibly stupid! :giggling:

I agree with you. As an American I see one of our biggest faults is our arrogance and belief that everybody sees things like we do. We fail to comprehend that because something looks good to us it may be seen as bad by somebody else.

'Maybe our methods are crude , but at least our intentions are wrong ."

[جوري]

As to PA's Jellies, I'd bet my mortgage that there was no intent to insult there, either. Why are you guys so paranoid? If the word concerned had rather more letters, or just different ones, it wouldn't have 'appeared' on the shoes, just as it wouldn't appear in trees, clouds, and cut melon slices (photos of all of which I've seen on these boards).

You must really want to get rid of that house? try an insurance scam.... or is it easy to wager when you have nothing to lose, except yourself respect?
I am sure China's problems with lead in consumer products and tainted meds are all just paranoia as well..

P.S I am not so weak in my faith as to look for an Allah miracle in a cloud --however when you import millions of shoes with Allah in Arabic on the bottom so as to be stepping on his name.. and the company spokes person admits that there was foul play by someone inside and they'll do all their efforts to find out who.. I think I'd take that as a point of deliberation...

[Pygoscelis]

disasters occur when any program is cross culture or cross languages. It is very difficult to verify that what is done or said will not have the wrong impact.

A few years ago Chevrolet introduced the Nova into Mexico. It did not sell at all. Finaly somebody realized that No va is Spanish for Doesn't go. So the Cheverolet Nova ads were read by the Mexicans as Chevrolet, does not go.

The moral of the story is, when you attempt to do something for people of another culture or language, get advice from people that live the culture and/or language.

I have heard this story before.

I has been debunked as a myth.

http://www.snopes.com/business/misxlate/nova.asp

[Pygoscelis]

The designer of the football put flags on the ball, including the Saudi flag. Putting national flags on footballs is quite common, since it is often played internationally.

Do you honestly think non-Muslims have any idea what is written on the Saudi flag? Like Trumble noted, the Americans probably didn't even design these balls, they just buy on the market. They are indeed most likely made in China or some other non-Muslim industrial country.

The irony is, I be if they'd left that flag off and still had all the other flags somebody would be complaining that that country was left out unfairly.

[NoName55]

:sl:

I dont get why these moronic so called Muslim countries have Kalimah on their National flags in the first place

:w:

[جوري]

it is ok to kick the German flag with your feet, not Ok to do it with a flag that bears God's name-- it is simple common sense ( put Jesus's name on there see how well that takes)... you want your cheap crap to sell do some marketing research!...

[Cognescenti]

I don't mean to be flippant but Arabic script looks like random swirls and dots to me. I think it is possible that someone trying to make a cool design on the bottom of a shoe might accidentally design something that has meaning to an Arab speaker. BTW..to leave a legible image, a shoe would have to have the mirror image on the sole.

A similar thing happened to Nike, which marketed a shoe with some flourishes near the heel which were perceived to insult Islam. They had to trash the whole line ;D

A chocolate candy plant in LA had to be shut down for a day because the chocolate squriting machine was comamnded by God to make an image of the Virgin Mary in semi-sweet confection. The Hispanic workers on the line refused to work until the Bishop came down and blessed the whole thing.

Jesus himself seems to enjoy popping up in window glass from time to time.

Also, I am unable to confirm the rumor that Salman Rushdie worked briefly at the Jelly plant

[Pygoscelis]

:sl:

I dont get why these moronic so called Muslim countries have Kalimah on their National flags in the first place

:w:

I'm right with you on this. I also question Israel for their flag having the star of David on it (an obvious religious symbol). Its as if they are linking the religion and the state so it is against the religion to oppose or question the state. That is dangerous in my view.

[جوري]

I don't mean to be flippant but Arabic script looks like random swirls and dots to me. I think it is possible that someone trying to make a cool design on the bottom of a shoe might accidentally design something that has meaning to an Arab speaker. BTW..to leave a legible image, a shoe would have to have the mirror image on the sole.

A similar thing happened to Nike, which marketed a shoe with some flourishes near the heel which were perceived to insult Islam. They had to trash the whole line ;D

A chocolate candy plant in LA had to be shut down for a day because the chocolate squriting machine was comamnded by God to make an image of the Virgin Mary in semi-sweet confection. The Hispanic workers on the line refused to work until the Bishop came down and blessed the whole thing.

Jesus himself seems to enjoy popping up in window glass from time to time.

Also, I am unable to confirm the rumor that Salman Rushdie worked briefly at the Jelly plant

1-This is what Allah looks like in Arabic

I'd say a safe bet if that is the impression it made on the floor or a piece of blank paper, that it is in fact what it is meant to denote...
2- those Jellies were only targetting the Saudi market, and the company had exclusive deals. this in 1987 and the company admitted to foul play.. perhaps you should elect yourself their excusatory spokesperson?
3- If Arabic looks like random swirls then perhaps you shouldn't engage on what would be an isomer or a mirror image-- what to do you think?
4- No one actually knows what jesus looks like hence if he showed up as an apparition or in the back of a dog as we have seen in this
Leave it to your imagination.
could be a hippy James Morrison for all we know.. However, every one knows exactly how Allah looks and spelled in Arabic..
As for your last asinine comment.. well what can I say. whatever puts dinner on the table for the exiled then by all!

[Woodrow]

Doing a quick check of national flags shows many of them have religous symbols.

http://www.flags.net/mainindex.htm

[Cognescenti]

Purest;

You do realize that I do not now, nor have I ever worked for Jelly shoes. I don't know who owns the company. I don't know where their plant is. It is possible it was the work of industrial sabotage by an insider, but that they would market a line of shoes exclusively for Saudis I find a bit hard to accept. It just seems an unnecessary expense for little gain.

I will accept it as an intentional insult if you provide evidence, otherwise I remain sceptical.

You will note I did not insult anyone. I merely offered the observation that people of faith find religious meaning in some of the oddest places.

The fact that you were able immediately to produce an doctored image insulting Christianity suggests to me this isn't the first time you have done this kind of thing. Happy state of intolerance to you, then.

For those who missed it, it was a view of the hindquarters of a dog, tail raised, straight abeam. An image of Jesus morphed slowly from the dogs hair sworls with hsi head you know where. Sorry y'all missed it.

[جوري]

[QUOTE=Cognescenti;818122]Purest;

You do realize that I do not now, nor have I ever worked for Jelly shoes. I don't know who owns the company. I don't know where their plant is. It is possible it was the work of industrial sabotage by an insider, but that they would market a line of shoes exclusively for Saudis I find a bit hard to accept. It just seems an unnecessary expense for little gain.

until you prove evidence of the contrary I'll remain skeptical!

I will accept it as an intentional insult if you provide evidence, otherwise I remain sceptical.

Your incredulity or approval on a matter that took place in the late 80's affects the outcome how?

You will note I did not insult anyone. I merely offered the observation that people of faith find religious meaning in some of the oddest places.

I am quite familiar with your vitriolic critique no need to water it down a bit on a subsequent post...

The fact that you were able immediately to produce an doctored image insulting Christianity suggests to me this isn't the first time you have done this kind of thing. Happy state of intolerance to you, then

ironically I learned of the 'doctored' up image here by a former member named 'philospher' around the same time many other christian members were producing evidence of 'Jesus sighting' every where from Gaza to fayoum Egypt.. what can I say I found it rather amusing people look for their God in the backside of an animal, in Islam we like to have some veneration, hence images depicting anything holy are forbidden! if you can't accept it, then don't participate with your chintzy ratiocinations. If others who market products can't respect that, then they shouldn't complain when their products are boycotted and they lose millions of dollars!
are we done here?

[Cognescenti]

[QUOTE=PurestAmbrosia;818126]

....
ironically I learned of the 'doctored' up image here by a former member named 'philospher' around the same time many other christian members were producing evidence of 'Jesus sighting' every where from Gaza to fayoum Egypt.. what can I say I found it rather amusing people look for their God in the backside of an animal, in Islam we like to have some veneration, hence images depicting anything holy are forbidden! if you can't accept it, then don't participate with your chintzy ratiocinations. If others who market products can't respect that, then they shouldn't complain when their products are boycotted and they lose millions of dollars!
are we done here?

There is no need to put quotes around "doctored". I will wager that was an animated .gif file, which, by definition is doctored.

As for this..."what can I say I found it rather amusing people look for their God in the backside of an animal.."

Let's not pretend that was your attempt at edification. That is undiluted hatred. Put it back up...see what everyone else thinks :nervous:

In the meantime, we can all walk around in the sand and carefully examine any soccer balls falling out of helicopeters to make sure we are not the victim of some vast corporate or national consipracy to insult Islam.

[جوري]

There is no need to put quotes around "doctored". I will wager that was an animated .gif file, which, by definition is doctored.

Didn't want to insult the christians on board who perchance took the image for their God and didn't wish to perceive it as doctored!

As for this..."what can I say I found it rather amusing people look for their God in the backside of an animal.."
Let's not pretend that was your attempt at edification. That is undiluted hatred. Put it back up...see what everyone else thinks :nervous:

It was removed by a mod, wasn't I who initially removed it, and I stated quite clearly the purpose of it being there.. anyone can render their meaning to such an image ( Jesus, or led zeppelin) however Allah in Arabic it quite axiomatic you can't miss nor misconstrue it!

In the meantime, we can all walk around in the sand and carefully examine any soccer balls falling out of helicopeters to make sure we are not the victim of some vast corporate or national consipracy to insult Islam.

You do that! You seem to have quite a bit of time on your hand!

[FBI]

Don't believe it was intentional, some Muslims seriously need to stop thinking everything is against them.

[ahsan28]

Don't believe it was intentional, some Muslims seriously need to stop thinking everything is against them.

FA to investigate anti-Muslim abuse aimed at Mido



The Football Association is to investigate the Islamophobic abuse suffered by Mido, Middlesbrough's Egyptian striker, during Sunday's 2-2 draw with Newcastle United at the Riverside Stadium.

Mido, who scored Boro's first goal on Sunday, was the subject of persistent anti-Arab chants from some of the visiting Newcastle supporters congregated at one end of the ground who seemed to have made the assumption that anyone born and brought up in Cairo must automatically be a terrorist. These tiresome, oft-repeated ditties, included "Mido, he's got a bomb you know; Mido's got a bomb."

After the game Boro's manager, Gareth Southgate, expressed disappointment "I find it strange that 3,000 people can abuse one person and nothing is done,"


Tuesday August 28, 2007
The Guardian


http://football.guardian.co.uk/News_...157260,00.html




Should we again consider, it wasn't intentional

[snakelegs]

:sl:

I dont get why these moronic so called Muslim countries have Kalimah on their National flags in the first place

:w:

good question - i've wondered about that one too! flags can get trampled on, set on fire by protesters, fall in to filth etc etc.

[barney]

The Saudi's protested at it being put on the ball in 2002, it's not allowed on T shirts etc.

[Isambard]

Just seems like a bad marketing move. It happens.

Careful with crazy conspiracy theories...lest you end up believing stuff like this http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7...387545,00.html

[FBI]

FA to investigate anti-Muslim abuse aimed at Mido



The Football Association is to investigate the Islamophobic abuse suffered by Mido, Middlesbrough's Egyptian striker, during Sunday's 2-2 draw with Newcastle United at the Riverside Stadium.

Mido, who scored Boro's first goal on Sunday, was the subject of persistent anti-Arab chants from some of the visiting Newcastle supporters congregated at one end of the ground who seemed to have made the assumption that anyone born and brought up in Cairo must automatically be a terrorist. These tiresome, oft-repeated ditties, included "Mido, he's got a bomb you know; Mido's got a bomb."

After the game Boro's manager, Gareth Southgate, expressed disappointment "I find it strange that 3,000 people can abuse one person and nothing is done,"


Tuesday August 28, 2007
The Guardian


http://football.guardian.co.uk/News_...157260,00.html




Should we again consider, it wasn't intentional

This an entirely different case, Plus you aint got no evidence to suggest it was done on purpose.

[ahsan28]

This an entirely different case, Plus you aint got no evidence to suggest it was done on purpose.

In both cases, my reading suggests these were intentional. Ignorance is no excuse, especially on religious grounds.

[barney]

Football fans. Thats the place you'll find tolerant, rational sensible people.
:(

[Trumble]

The Mido incident was simple racism by a bunch of idiots and, as has been said, can't be compared to the Afghan footballs incident in any meaningful way.

[guyabano]

This an entirely different case, Plus you aint got no evidence to suggest it was done on purpose.

You say it, so I suggest to open a new thread about this matter. You hijacked this thread (and btw, it's not the first time I see you doing it) . It's an convenient way to avoid the approoving of new posts in World section
This topic has nothing to do with hatred chants or whatever.

[alibaba]

At least they had balls

[guyabano]

I'm pretty sure, afghan kids were happy to get a leather ball to play soccer instead of kicking cans. Did anybody just had a few thoughts about the concerned kids? I'm pretty sure not. And IMHO, if somebody doesn't like the print on the ball, scratch it away, my Goodness.

[islamirama]

I'm pretty sure, afghan kids were happy to get a leather ball to play soccer instead of kicking cans. Did anybody just had a few thoughts about the concerned kids? I'm pretty sure not. And IMHO, if somebody doesn't like the print on the ball, scratch it away, my Goodness.

So you don't mind having Jesus or God, or few verses from the bible written on a ball you kick around on the ground with utter disrespect?

[wilberhum]

So you don't mind having Jesus or God, or few verses from the bible written on a ball you kick around on the ground with utter disrespect?

I think you have to be "Looking" for "disrespect" to think putting countries flags on a ball is the utter display of it. IMHO :confused:

Just someone looking for a fight. :grumbling

[guyabano]

So you don't mind having Jesus or God, or few verses from the bible written on a ball you kick around on the ground with utter disrespect?

No ! Some soccer player even believe it bring good luck

In addition, who says, I kick a ball with disrespect?

[Muezzin]

I've got rid of some off-topic posts where people were attacking each other 'n' stuff. Come on, guys.

[islamirama]

I think you have to be "Looking" for "disrespect" to think putting countries flags on a ball is the utter display of it. IMHO :confused:

Just someone looking for a fight. :grumbling

Just the fact that americans (those high up in power) know what islam is what will cause disrespect and enmity betw. muslims and yet they arrogantly still do it. The big deal made at world cups about putting saudi flag on the balls was not enough attention to let them know that is a stupid idea to do. What about the protest and request of saudi to NOT put their flags on the balls. Like i said, some people are either very ignorant and insensitive about other's cultures or do it on purpose to stir up trouble.

[wilberhum]

Just the fact that americans (those high up in power) know what islam is what will cause disrespect and enmity betw. muslims and yet they arrogantly still do it. The big deal made at world cups about putting saudi flag on the balls was not enough attention to let them know that is a stupid idea to do. What about the protest and request of saudi to NOT put their flags on the balls. Like i said, some people are either very ignorant and insensitive about other's cultures or do it on purpose to stir up trouble.

You have every right to assume that an insult was intentional.
I have every right to assume that some are just looking for a fight.

I would love to know who made the balls. :rollseyes