/* */

PDA

View Full Version : dinosaurs in islam?



ranma1/2
08-28-2007, 07:45 AM
Im curious, what is the view on dinosaurs and when were they created in islam? Related, how old is the earth and when was mankind created and how?
Reply

Login/Register to hide ads. Scroll down for more posts
Karina
08-28-2007, 03:35 PM
Hey - that's such a coincidence,

I was wondering that myself just last night.

Does anyone know? :?
Reply

Abdul Fattah
08-28-2007, 03:41 PM
Well as far as I know there is nothing in Islamic literature that either affirms or contradicts it, so either the classical theory of archeology or the extreme Christian creationists who "swear" by their biblical time-line could be right. But I think most Muslims will be inclined to believe classical theory as opposed to biblical timeliness as we believe the bible is no longer accurate.

Allah subhana wa ta'ala knows best
Reply

------
08-28-2007, 03:42 PM
:salamext:

Dinosaurs....hmm...thats a new topic in islaam lol
Reply

Welcome, Guest!
Hey there! Looks like you're enjoying the discussion, but you're not signed up for an account.

When you create an account, you can participate in the discussions and share your thoughts. You also get notifications, here and via email, whenever new posts are made. And you can like posts and make new friends.
Sign Up
جوري
08-28-2007, 06:09 PM
Allah SWT did mention dinosaurs in the Noble Quran. While the word "dinosaurs" is a modern word that refers to the gigantic animals that existed millions of years ago, Allah SWTreferred to all created "beasts" as "dabbah". A "dabbah" in the Noble Quran consists of all animals, including the dinosaurs.

"Behold! in the creation of the heavens and the earth; in the alternation of the night and the day; in the sailing of the ships through the ocean for the profit of mankind; in the rain which God Sends down from the skies, and the life which He gives therewith to an earth that is dead; in the beasts of all kinds that He scatters through the earth; in the change of the winds, and the clouds which they Trail like their slaves between the sky and the earth;- (Here) indeed are Signs for a people that are wise. (The Noble Quran, 2:164)"
However there is no word on what became of them or how they became extinct so it is open to interpretation!
Allah a3lam
Reply

Karina
08-28-2007, 06:35 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by PurestAmbrosia
However there is no word on what became of them or how they became extinct so it is open to interpretation!
Allah a3lam
Hi PurestAmbrosia - I hope you are well!

In your opinion, why do you think these subjects are not covered?

Oh, and how can we be sure that "beasts" or "dubbah" refers to dinosaurs specifically?

Kindest regards
Karina :sunny:
Reply

جوري
08-28-2007, 06:39 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Karina
Hi PurestAmbrosia - I hope you are well!
Dear K. I wish you the same, I know we got off on the wrong foot so let's recoup

In your opinion, why do you think these subjects are not covered?
I don't believe the fundament of Islam is contingent on what became of the dinosaurs.. I think they are there as a sign of the greatness of Allah, no different than distant galaxies that we are just discovering!
Oh, and how can we be sure that "beasts" or "dubbah" refers to dinosaurs specifically?
it isn't specific it is collective (dabbah) means beasts in general could be gorillas.. it is meant to be all inclusive of Allah's creation that aren't man kind!

Kindest regards
Karina :sunny:
you too
peace!
Reply

ranma1/2
08-31-2007, 12:17 AM
Ok so far the opinion is that dinosaurs exists "im serious, ive known several fundy christians that think dinosaur bones are made by satan to fool us"

the next question is how old are they, related how old is the earth.
And also related, did humans live with dinosaurs "kent hovind style"?
Reply

Yanal
08-31-2007, 12:46 AM
:sl: :sl:
Here's something


Question:
Imaam, can you please tell me if it is impermissible to believe that there were dinosaurs on the earth before Adaam and Eve were created?

Answer:

Praise be to Allaah.

Allaah created Adam (peace be upon him) on a Friday, the sixth day from the beginning of creation. Some texts mention what was created on the previous five days, in brief and general terms, but as to the details of what was created, Allaah knows best about that. Questions like this, on which no belief or deeds are to be based, are just meaningless distractions that are of no benefit. Faith does not increase or decrease according to whether one believes in dinosaurs or not. It was reported that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) forbade us to occupy ourselves with things that cause confusion and are not clear. We also know that people differ in their views as to whether these dinosaurs existed or they are just figments of the imagination. And Allaah knows best.

Islam Q&A
Sheikh Muhammed Salih Al-Munajjid
Reply

ranma1/2
08-31-2007, 12:54 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Yanal
:sl: :sl:
Here's something


Question:
....Allaah created Adam (peace be upon him) on a Friday, the sixth day from the beginning of creation. ...... Allaah knows best about that......
This doesnt answer the question.
It says god made adam "aparently not via evolution".

The phrase "allah knows best" is a non answer, similar to god did it. Essentially its saying I dont know.
Reply

جوري
08-31-2007, 01:24 AM
Yanal is only 11, and I believe you are best suited for the answers from an 11 year old the kind of cockamamy questions you pose!
Reply

MuhammadRizan
08-31-2007, 01:41 AM
Salam.

Essentially its saying I dont know
that's exactly what Muslim means when they say "Allah knows best"

Basically, there is no specific record about how old is earth or the dinosaur in the Quran and Hadith...but in the Quran there is mention that Allah create the world in six period of time..phase by phase.


In the Quran also there is mention that Adam and his two son Abel and cain grow vegetables and goat and there is crow involve in the story...so indirectly
seems like they are living in the modern day world not really prehistoric, some small species maybe still there but in my opinion many of them already gone.
Reply

Yanal
08-31-2007, 01:47 AM
BUT i think it is saying that dinosaurs aren't real and yes i am only a kid so be more spefic and excuse me respect religons man i know i should respect you but still muslims say that and meaning they respect islam so please learn some self respect*sarcastic*
Reply

جوري
08-31-2007, 02:10 AM
We need to keep in mind that a day by our reckoning isn't so by God's

it is the hearts, which are within the bosoms, that grow blind.

وَلَن يُخْلِفَ اللَّهُ وَعْدَهُ وَإِنَّ يَوْمًا عِندَ رَبِّكَ كَأَلْفِ سَنَةٍ مِّمَّا تَعُدُّونَ {47}---
[Pickthal 22:47]وَكَأَيِّن
Verily a Day in the sight of thy Lord is like a thousand years of your reckoning.
another verse
يُدَبِّرُ الْأَمْرَ مِنَ السَّمَاء إِلَى الْأَرْضِ ثُمَّ يَعْرُجُ إِلَيْهِ فِي يَوْمٍ كَانَ مِقْدَارُهُ أَلْفَ سَنَةٍ مِّمَّا تَعُدُّونَ {5}
[Pickthal 32:5] He directeth the ordinance from the heaven unto the earth; then it ascendeth unto Him in a Day, whereof the measure is a thousand years of that ye reckon.

two verses that cite that God doesn't follow our laws of physics!
we count our days by virtue of our sun or even lunar calendar.. they are not the same laws on Mars, they are not the same laws in another galaxy all together and the Quran clearely tells us so.. so again we are not quite sure what 6 days of Allah's measure are by our own!

:w:
Reply

جوري
08-31-2007, 02:15 AM
another source
How Long Could be a Day?
Question: A particular verse of the Quran says that one day in the sight of Allah is equal to 1000 years. In another verse of the Quran, it says that one day is equal to 50,000 years. Isn't the Quran contradicting itself?


Answer:

1. Time of Allah is incomparable to earthly time
The Quran says in two verses, (22:47 and 32:5), that the measure of one day in the sight of Allah is equal to 1,000 years of our reckoning. In another verse (70:4) it says that the measure of one day in the sight of Allah is equal to 50,000 years of our reckoning.

These verses generally mean that the time of Allah (swt) is incomparable to the earthly time. The examples given are of one thousand years and fifty thousand years of the earthly time. In other words thousands of years or a very, long time of the earth a day in the sight of Allah is equal to:

2. Yaum also means Period
The Arabic word used in all these three verses is yaum, which, besides meaning a day also means a long period, or an epoch. If you translate the word yaum correctly as ‘period’ there will be no confusion.

a) The verse from Surah Hajj reads as:

“Yet they ask thee to hasten on the Punishment! but Allah will not fail in His promise. Verily a Day in the sight of thy Lord is like a thousand years of your reckoning”. [Al-Quran 22:47]

When the unbelievers asked to hasten the punishment the Quran says Allah will not fail in His promise. Verily a period in the sight of Allah is like a thousand years of your reckoning.

b) The verse from Surah Al-Sajdah says:

“He rules (all) affairs from the heavens to the earth: in the end will (all affairs) go up? To Him, on a Day, the space whereof will be (as) a thousand years of your reckoning”. [Al-Quran 32:5]

This verse indicates that a period required for all the affairs to go up to Allah (swt), is a thousand years of our reckoning.

c) A verse from Surah Al-Maarij says:

“The angels and the spirit ascend unto Him in a Day the measure whereof is (as) fifty thousand years”. [Al-Quran 70:4]

This verse means that the period required for angels and the spirits to ascend unto Allah (swt) is fifty thousand years.

d) The period for two different acts need not be the same. For example the period required for me to travel to destination ‘A’ say Vashi is one hour and the period required for me to travel to destination ‘B’ i.e. Kashmir is 50 hours. This does not indicate that I am making two contradictory statements.

Thus the verses of the Quran not only do not contradict each other, they are also in perfect harmony with established modern scientific facts.
source
Reply

جوري
08-31-2007, 02:19 AM
one last source
50,000 years before creating the heavens and the Earth” – Understanding Ibn Taymiyah’s Statement that Created Things Have Always Existed| `Abd al-Rahmân al-Barrâk, professor at al-Imâm Islamic University|


People misunderstand what Ibn Taymiyah means when he states that there have always been created things and that this has been the case stretching back into the past for eternity. People think that he is claiming our present universe to be timeless, without beginning. This is not the case.

The technical term in Arabic used to describe something that exists without having a beginning is the term qadîm. Ibn Taymiyah, contrary to what some people have understood, does not claim that our universe is qadîm.

The claim that the observable universe is qadîm – having no beginning in the past – is a false claim. It is blatantly false, because Allah informs us that this universe of ours was created in six days. This is clearly stated in many verses of the Qur’ân. For instance, Allah says:

“Allah is the one who created the heavens and the Earth in six days.” [Sûrah al-A`râf: 54]

“Indeed, your Lord is Allah who created the heavens and the Earth in six days.” [Sûrah Yûnus: 3]

“Allah is the one who created the heavens and the Earth and what is between them in six days.” [Sûrah al-Sajdah: 4]

We are also informed that Allah created the heavens and the Earth 50,000 years after determining the measure of all created things.

The Prophet (peace be upon him) said: “Allah recorded the measure of all created things 50,000 years before creating the heavens and the Earth… and His throne was above the water.” [Sahîh Muslim (2653)]

This means that our universe certainly had a beginning at a specific point in time. Its existence did not persist eternally into the past.

The claim that this universe of ours has no beginning is a claim made by classical peripatetic philosophers who described God as the “First Cause” and the source of existence. They claim that God is the complete cause for all things in existence and that a complete cause necessitates the existence of its effect. Therefore – they argue – the universe is eternally ancient by virtue of the eternal nature of its cause. The universe exists without ever being preceded by non-existence.

Some people confuse these ideas with Ibn Taymiyah’s claim that created existence, considered in categorical terms, is qadîm – existing eternally in the past – and that there is no beginning to the presence of the class of things known as “created things”. Ibn Taymiyah’s view can also be described as a continuous series of created things stretching eternally into the past of the idea that there have always been created things. All of these descriptions describe essentially the same idea.

Ibn Taymiyah is simply saying that Allah has always been creating and doing as he pleases. There no created thing without accepting that Allah had created something else before it – and that this has always been the case forever in the past – because Allah has always existed and He has always been capable of all things, and He has always been doing whatever he wills to do.

Because of this, there have always been created things, or at the very least, it is definitely possible that there have always been created things. This does not mean that created things have been forever following one from another. Created things do not exist independently throughout time. No created thing has ever existed without its having its beginning in Allah’s creating it. Each created thing has, therefore, come into existence after not having existed.

Only Allah has always existed. He alone is not preceded by non-existence. Allah has always existed in the past and he will continue to exist forever. He has no beginning and no end. This is why Allah has among his names al-Awwal (the First) and al-Âkhir (the Last).

Allah says: “He is the First and the Last, the Evident and the Hidden, and He has knowledge of all things.” [Sûrah al-Hadîd: 3]

The Prophet (peace be upon him) used to supplicate his lord, saying: “You are the First before Whom there is no other and You are the Last, after Whom there is no other.” [Sahîh Muslim (2713)]

Those who object to Ibn Taymiyah making this claim – and it is not just the position of Ibn Taymiyah, but that of all those who believe that Allah has always been capable of all things – they object to it because they misunderstood what he is actually saying. If they had understood what he meant, they would have had no reason to reject it.

Those who reject the idea that there can be a series of created things stretching back eternally into the past are really implying that Allah has not always been capable and then became capable – and that he had not always been carrying out actions and then began carrying out actions. This is the opinion of many of those who assert that the impossibility of a continuous succession of transient objects stretching forever into the past. Those who claim that such a thing it is impossible while at the same time asserting that Allah has always been capable and has always been carrying out actions – such people are contradicting themselves.

Some people in the past had gone so far as to declare it impossible for transient objects to continue on into the future and had claimed that both Paradise and Hell would one day come to an end. This was the belief of Jahm b. Safwân and those who followed him. No doubt, the belief that Paradise will come to an end is an outright rejection of what Allah and His Messenger (peace be upon him) have told us.

Allah is eternal. As al-Tahâwî says in his `Aqîdah: “He has always existed without beginning and He will continue to exist forever without coming to an end.”

Everything else besides Allah came into existence after having not existed Allah can then maintain the existence of anything He wills and keep it in existence for eternity. If Allah does not cause it to perish, it will continue into the future for however long Allah wants it to exist. It is always dependent on His will. Nothing in creation precedes Allah in what is unique to Him.

Allah says: “There is nothing like unto Him, and He is the One who hears and sees (all things).” [Sûrah al-Shûrâ: 11]

hope that takes care of all confusions!
Reply

ranma1/2
08-31-2007, 02:28 AM
So basicly the idea is that we ?earth? was created in 6 days?
These days are gods days? On the side, by what measurement would god use to determine a day? The reference to time seems to me more of showing that god lives a long time "like we say dog years".

So how old is the earth then?
Did dinosaurs live with humans?
Reply

NoName55
08-31-2007, 02:32 AM
^^ you need to be rewarded for picking on our little brother (knowing these mods, it is very likely)


Salam alaikum@yanal
what if you think of time as a round see thru "object" surrounded by an almighty Power that is in control of it all at the same time can see all of it?

is that any easier? if it is, then I'll post more, if not do not worry, wasalam :)

PS. you are correct to post that we do not need to waste time on thinking about dinosaurs as time is very precious to be wasted on idlers.
Reply

islamirama
08-31-2007, 02:59 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by ranma1/2
So basicly the idea is that we ?earth? was created in 6 days?
These days are gods days? On the side, by what measurement would god use to determine a day? The reference to time seems to me more of showing that god lives a long time "like we say dog years".

So how old is the earth then?
It seams the last answers didn't sink in or have you forgotten them already? Just few months ago you had the same thread going on about how old earth is, how many days are God days, and creation of mankind. You were answered quite thoroughly and then you went mute on that thread. perhaps you should try finding that thread again rather going on and on in your repeated questions.


Did dinosaurs live with humans?
You may not have realized but we humans aren't the only creation and the universe did not begin with us. We existence is but a spec in the time line of the universe. You may have heard of Jinns, they are creatures created by smokeless fire as humans are from clay and angels from light. They were existed before us and roam the earth. They lived for quite a long long time before we set foot on earth. Dinosaurs could have been part of their world before humans came along or they could be even before jinn's to roam the earth by themselves.

Also, have you heard of bottleneck effect? it's a scientific term used to describe a specie that marries within its own family and each generation shrinks smaller and smaller over time. We humans are a family who has been marrying within the family thru out time and thus have been shrinking since then till we reach our current height. Adam a.s. was created 27 feet tall. The super giant trees we see today were normal trees for humans of that era. The big dinosaurs we fear might have been nothing more than pets for those humans. Our age also has been shortened since then. Nuh (Noah) a.s. lived for like 500yrs or something, and other previous people also have been reported to live in centuries. Where humans life span was measured in centuries, now it is measured in decades.

I know much of this is hard to for you to believe since you're an atheist. But there's lot of evidence out there to suggest and lean towards this. Do some research on bottleneck effect and humans. Anyways, we do not deny or confirm the dinosaurs no waste our time on them. If they existed then they existed, big deal. It does not benefit us in this world or Hereafter with such knowledge and waste time fighting over if they existed or not.
Reply

ranma1/2
08-31-2007, 03:51 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by islamirama
It seams the last answers didn't sink in or have you forgotten them already? Just few months ago you had the same thread going on about how old earth is, how many days are God days, and creation of mankind. You were answered quite thoroughly and then you went mute on that thread. perhaps you should try finding that thread again rather going on and on in your repeated questions.
I dont think that was me.
Perhaps you could find it. And perhaps i got similar answers.


format_quote Originally Posted by islamirama
....You may have heard of Jinns,...... They lived for quite a long long time before we set foot on earth. Dinosaurs could have been part of their world before humans came along or they could be even before jinn's to roam the earth by themselves.
We have no evidence of Jinns. And you seem to be avoiding the question of time.

format_quote Originally Posted by islamirama
Also, have you heard of bottleneck effect? it's a scientific term used to describe a specie that marries within its own family and each generation shrinks smaller and smaller over time.
Thats not my understanding of it at all. Do you have a source.
Here is mine. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Population_bottleneck
Essentially it occures when a significant portion of a population dies off. But once again this doesnt relate to the thread.


format_quote Originally Posted by islamirama
We humans are a family who has been marrying within the family thru out time and thus have been shrinking.......
I know much of this is hard to for you to believe since you're an atheist. But there's lot of evidence out there to suggest and lean towards this. Do some research on bottleneck effect and humans. Anyways, we do not deny or confirm the dinosaurs no waste our time on them. If they existed then they existed, big deal. It does not benefit us in this world or Hereafter with such knowledge and waste time fighting over if they existed or not.

Evidence? Its hard for me to believe because you have no evidence.
The statistical information out there tends to show that diet and enviroment will effect height.

Not to mention it seems to me that your facts are flawed. It does benefit us to have knowledge about the world and how we came to being.


It makes me sad when people choose ignorance as it seems you are.
Reply

جوري
08-31-2007, 04:45 AM
Time for people to dismiss all that puerile one-upsmanship!...
if what you are writing isn't registering, then it is honestly time to move on!
:w:
Reply

shible
08-31-2007, 05:09 AM
:sl:

May be the guys who are interested to know more about Dino's can check some other sources in a different way.

First of all There were four Holy Books

Tourah

Zabur

Ingeil

Qur'an

Why don't u guys check with the Other sources as it was revaled previously at the olden ages they might have some info on them.

Jus a Thought

:w:
Reply

islamirama
08-31-2007, 09:23 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by ranma1/2
I dont think that was me.
Perhaps you could find it. And perhaps i got similar answers.

No thanks, not interested in waisting my time.




We have no evidence of Jinns. And you seem to be avoiding the question of time.
Jinns exist, plenty of evidence out there, Just need to go out and look for it. I answered your questions to the point, not my fault you can't comprehend.




Thats not my understanding of it at all. Do you have a source.
Here is mine. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Population_bottleneck
Essentially it occures when a significant portion of a population dies off. But once again this doesnt relate to the thread.
Bottleneck effect refers to the reduction of a population’s gene pool and the accompanying changes in gene frequency produced when a few members survive the widespread elimination of a species. (or you start out with a very small gene pool/population).

http://www.emc.maricopa.edu/faculty/...ookEVOLII.html




Evidence? Its hard for me to believe because you have no evidence.
The statistical information out there tends to show that diet and enviroment will effect height.
you have a 5foot man and you have a 7foot man, all this is influenced by diet, environment and genetics. So yea your height is affected by all that stuff. But you are thinking on a micro level rather then macro. You won't see anyone taller than 9 or 10feet today. I'm taking about first human being created 27feet tall and over the passing generations that height shrunk as did the age range measured in decades today compared to centuries before. If you can find dinosaur bodies then i'm sure you can find a giant human body too somewhere, just because it has not been found does not mean it doesn't exist, that's basic science. But then again if you rely on scientific evidence only then i feel sorry for you, how many times has that evidence become flawed? what you fail to understand is our evidence and science is limited to our capacity to invent theories and prove them right. What could not be done yesterday (flying) can be done today, and what we may think scientifically impossible maybe done tomorrow. So if you judge a world around you by your limited scientific evidence and understanding then you are limiting your capacity to understand on a grand scale. Man trapped in a glass bubble will think the universe is only as big as the bubble.

[/quote] Not to mention it seems to me that your facts are flawed. It does benefit us to have knowledge about the world and how we came to being.

It makes me sad when people choose ignorance as it seems you are.[/quote]

Islam encourages you to think, ponder, reflect and search. Muslims were pioneers in all fields from arts, medicine, astronomy to everything else while the Europeans were still in the dark ages. Learning medicine and life benefits you, you can help humanity with that knowledge. Debating over if dinosaurs existed or not and blah blah is useless knoweldge because it does not benefit humanity. It is nothing more than conjuring up fantasy stories. The ignorant are the ones who waste time on idle things when they can better spend their time.
Reply

ranma1/2
09-01-2007, 05:56 AM
Wow, “apart from still being off topic”
Why does your def
format_quote Originally Posted by islamirama
...
Also, have you heard of bottleneck effect? it's a scientific term used to describe a specie that marries within its own family and each generation shrinks smaller and smaller over time. ...
And this next one you provided have nothing to do with each other?

Im stil curious how marriage has anything to do with it. It seems my rough def summed up what you posted below.

format_quote Originally Posted by islamirama
...

Bottleneck effect refers to the reduction of a population’s gene pool and the accompanying changes in gene frequency produced when a few members survive the widespread elimination of a species. (or you start out with a very small gene pool/population).
http://www.emc.maricopa.edu/faculty/...ookEVOLII.html
As for human height, you have not shown any evidence.
There is no evidence that humans have ever been 27 feet high. So your still lacking in evidence. Please provide.

And now back to the thread. Dinosaurs.

How old is the earth, when did dinosaurs live, did the live with humans etc….
According to islam.
Reply

islamirama
09-01-2007, 10:01 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by ranma1/2
Wow, “apart from still being off topic”
Why does your def


And this next one you provided have nothing to do with each other?

Im stil curious how marriage has anything to do with it. It seems my rough def summed up what you posted below.



As for human height, you have not shown any evidence.
There is no evidence that humans have ever been 27 feet high. So your still lacking in evidence. Please provide.

And now back to the thread. Dinosaurs.
well lets just say you have your prophets (scientists) and we have ours. The difference is that our prophets are never wrong where as yours are often wrong and going back to the drawing board. And you brought up the topic of human beings but we'll drop it for now.


How old is the earth, when did dinosaurs live, did the live with humans etc….
According to islam.
I have not come across anything in Islam that specifically gives you an exact number or anything. I don't think you'll come across any religious or non-religious material that'll spell it out for you on this stuff. We can guess about how long humans have been on earth based on the ages of the prophets that has been recorded. But then we know many things have existed long before humans came along. I find it rather amusing you can dismiss jinns or any other creatures existence because of the limited science capabilities to prove them, and yet your entertainment culture is nothing but either about robots like gundam seed or about jinns and demons like inuyasha, bleach, and other such anime.

Anyways, science is good for current events like advancements in healths system and what not. They can speculate how old earth could be from rocks and what not but at end of the day, it is still nothing more than a theory, a guess. Scientists long believed it took millions of years for our universe to create itself. They taught this as a FACT in science classes for decades. But recent observation and discovery of a galaxy forming shows them that rather then millions of years, it could've been only a few thousand years. So like i said, scientific facts are facts because of humans limits and those facts are always changing like the wind when they learn something new.
Reply

Science101
09-01-2007, 10:34 PM
The first dinosaurs appeared approximately 200 million years ago. I have a dinosaur tracksite where these early dinosaurs left their footprints:

http://members.aol.com/dinoprints

Dinosaurs later evolved into super-giants then went extinct approximately 65 million years ago, except for the smaller dinosaurs that could fly we now call "birds".
Reply

islamirama
09-01-2007, 10:39 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Science101
The first dinosaurs appeared approximately 200 million years ago. I have a dinosaur tracksite where these early dinosaurs left their footprints:

http://members.aol.com/dinoprints

Dinosaurs later evolved into super-giants then went extinct approximately 65 million years ago, except for the smaller dinosaurs that could fly we now call "birds".
Evolutionist say that humans evolved from monkeys, that other animals evolved from other animals. why are monkies still around? why is crow still around and unchanged for millions of years? The trouble with "millions" of years is that it is all speculated, in other words "guessed". Today these "experts" say millions of years, tomorrow when they get a little smarter in IQ and technology, they'll say 1000s of years instead, like the creation of galaxies (see link in my previous post).
Reply

جوري
09-01-2007, 11:03 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Science101
The first dinosaurs appeared approximately 200 million years ago. I have a dinosaur tracksite where these early dinosaurs left their footprints:

http://members.aol.com/dinoprints

Dinosaurs later evolved into super-giants then went extinct approximately 65 million years ago, except for the smaller dinosaurs that could fly we now call "birds".
interesting.. I have already covered this, and don't want every topic to be an evolution topic as if the major theme of our existence..
you'd be interested to know that before the dinos, from 360- 450 mil yrs depending on the source you read were the Coelacanth.. thought to be the 'missing link' you know our eldest ancestors that have made it to land, later developed arms legs and lungs, well they swim today un-evolved ..
ultimately everyone should be not just spiritually but scientifically happy with their conclusions as they have drawn them from the evidence presented them.
I have already said my 'peace' on dozens of threads here on the matter.. it doesn't come down to religion vs science rather science vs. science ..
until there is palpable reproducible evidence of some sort.. there is no point in dragging this out on every post in show of one-upmanship

peace!
Reply

Science101
09-01-2007, 11:07 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by islamirama
Evolutionist say that humans evolved from monkeys, that other animals evolved from other animals. why are monkies still around?
The proper wording is that we evolved from a "common ancestor" that shared by great-ape. Monkeys are further down on the tree of life. We did not "come from" a monkey or an ape, we just share a common ancestor. It's like you and a cousin will both share a common ancestor (grandparents), but both of you are still here at the same time. You do not come from your cousin.

format_quote Originally Posted by islamirama
why is crow still around and unchanged for millions of years?
I'm not sure if a crow has remain unchanged for that long. But animals that are well adapted for their environment do not go extinct like others do. Mosquitoes once fed on dinosaurs. Their DNA code has probably changed but their body plan (morphology) remained roughly the same because it works well.

format_quote Originally Posted by islamirama
The trouble with "millions" of years is that it is all speculated, in other words "guessed".
Not at all. The dates are derived from radiometric dating. It's very accurate.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiometric_dating

What you are hearing are rumors that are untrue. Scientists know what they're doing.

format_quote Originally Posted by islamirama
Today these "experts" say millions of years, tomorrow when they get a little smarter in IQ and technology, they'll say 1000s of years instead, like the creation of galaxies (see link in my previous post).
Nope. That will not happen. The qualified scientists are very certain that the dates are correct. They have been correlated with tree rings of trees that are thousands of years old and other things that have a known age. The machines they use for dating have been proven to be accurate.
Reply

Science101
09-01-2007, 11:27 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by PurestAmbrosia
interesting.. I have already covered this, and don't want every topic to be an evolution topic as if the major theme of our existence..
Same here! But the topic seems to come up on its own. And being into dinosaurs myself, I couldn't help reply to the thread with what I have learned.

format_quote Originally Posted by PurestAmbrosia
you'd be interested to know that before the dinos, from 360- 450 mil yrs depending on the source you read were the Coelacanth.. thought to be the 'missing link' you know our eldest ancestors that have made it to land, later developed arms legs and lungs, well they swim today un-evolved ..
There have been transitional fossils that later evolved, found too. But there are no known living examples of thisone.

http://www2.ljworld.com/news/2006/ap...ght_evolution/

And I must add that genotype (DNA code) does change over time but phenotype (what they look like) can remain much the same. Coelacanth has changed, we once compared the fossils to the present fish and there are differences.

The crocodile is still around too, but 200 million years ago they were bipedal (walked on hind legs). Their footprints are also found locally.
Reply

islamirama
09-02-2007, 01:01 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Science101
The proper wording is that we evolved from a "common ancestor" that shared by great-ape. Monkeys are further down on the tree of life. We did not "come from" a monkey or an ape, we just share a common ancestor. It's like you and a cousin will both share a common ancestor (grandparents), but both of you are still here at the same time. You do not come from your cousin.
It's all matter of belief. you choose to believe we have same grandpa and i choose to believe we all are distinct species with out own ancestors.



I'm not sure if a crow has remain unchanged for that long. But animals that are well adapted for their environment do not go extinct like others do. Mosquitoes once fed on dinosaurs. Their DNA code has probably changed but their body plan (morphology) remained roughly the same because it works well.
First time i've heard that, outer body is the same but inner could be changed. Kinda weak defense when your main evolution theory falls apart on these animals.



Not at all. The dates are derived from radiometric dating. It's very accurate.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiometric_dating


Nope. That will not happen. The qualified scientists are very certain that the dates are correct. They have been correlated with tree rings of trees that are thousands of years old and other things that have a known age. The machines they use for dating have been proven to be accurate.
I"m all for factual findings. Finding the age of tree from its rinks or cliff life from its residual rock linings, radioactive or carbon dating or any other method of measuring. That is science. But speculating it took earth millions of years to form or other theories aka guesses is just fantasy thinking. Look at the link shared previously. Scientists first believed and taught in books that it took millions of years for earth or this milky way to form, and in light of this new discovery of a galaxy forming, they are now saying it could've taken 1000s of years rather then millions. Like i said before, such topics and fields are only guess work till more evidence comes around to prove it wrong and new guesses are formed. We can tell how old trees or rocks are becuase we have something to work with, but no idea how old earth is or how long it took for universe to form or galaxies, nothing to work with but tid bits these guys catch on their little toys while looking at the sky.
Reply

ranma1/2
09-02-2007, 01:40 AM
islamirama,
the biggest difference is science is supported by evidence.

religion in general is not. "that pesky faith thing"

Science also does not know everything so it improves as we gain knowledge.

Religion does not adapt and it takes alot for it to admit it was wrong.
"of course we are the center of the universe...."

now back to DINOSAURS.

"Rawr... TREX goes back into forest."
Reply

islamirama
09-02-2007, 02:10 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by ranma1/2
islamirama,
the biggest difference is science is supported by evidence.

religion in general is not. "that pesky faith thing"

Science also does not know everything so it improves as we gain knowledge.

Religion does not adapt and it takes alot for it to admit it was wrong.
"of course we are the center of the universe...."

now back to DINOSAURS.

"Rawr... TREX goes back into forest."
Science is flawed, there's lot of guess work and lot of theories that are taught as facts.

Religion too was based on evidence the prophets showed to the people. Today it is a religion because we hold faith on those facts shown at that time. try www.islam-guide.com

What do you think Scientology is if not religion of the science?

Not all religions are right and not uncorrupted with human interventions. Islam encourages science and knowledge. Muslims are ahead of the world in science and astronomy when europe was still in its dark ages and japan was in its fuedal wars.

Can't believe in on science blindly.
"our galazy is milions of years old,...oh wait based on new facts it could've been just few thousand years" Dope!
Reply

Malaikah
09-02-2007, 02:16 AM
:sl:

Dinosaurs existed millions of years before the earliest known human fossils. They did not live side by side according to scientific knowledge.

Islam doesn't talk about dinosaurs, just like it doesn't talk about florescent fish that live in the pitch black of the ocean or how many moons jupiter has.

It is totally irrelevant to religion, if someone cares about dinosaurs then they should look at the fossil records and the like, not religion.
Reply

Trumble
09-02-2007, 04:15 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by islamirama
What do you think Scientology is if not religion of the science?
You need to do a little basic research. 'Scientology' is nothing of the the sort.

Science is flawed, there's lot of guess work and lot of theories that are taught as facts.
There is no guessing and neither are "theories taught as facts". Again, may I suggest you do some minimal research, in this instance as to what a scientific theory actually is; the word 'theory' has a specific definition in that context outside of its general usage.

Doesn't mean science has all the answers, though!!
Reply

ranma1/2
09-02-2007, 09:34 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Malaikah
:sl:

Dinosaurs existed millions of years before the earliest known human fossils. They did not live side by side according to scientific knowledge.

Islam doesn't talk about dinosaurs, just like it doesn't talk about florescent fish that live in the pitch black of the ocean or how many moons jupiter has.

It is totally irrelevant to religion, if someone cares about dinosaurs then they should look at the fossil records and the like, not religion.
is the story of our creation in islam to be taken literally or figuratively?

If taken literally then how old is the earth? When were the dinosaurs created and when were we created in realtion to them.
Reply

Malaikah
09-02-2007, 09:38 AM
Creation is literal. God created us in the way He said He did.

There is nothing direct or explicit in Islam to say how long ago the earth was created. I did once come across an article putting together different kinds of figures from here and there to come up with an estimate of how long ago Adam as created (and I can't find it any more!! :() but as for the universe, earth and dinosaurs, we know nothing.
Reply

Michael
09-02-2007, 10:17 AM
There is evidence that dinosaurs did live with humans. Human and dinosaur tracks have been found in the same layers of rock. Cave drawings of dinosaurs have been found. The Ica stones in Peru show pictures of humans and dinosaurs co-existing.

The word 'dinosaur' is a recent creation, as PurestAmbrosia has said. However, before that time, dinosaurs were called "dragons". Just about every culture on this planet has stories about dragons.

Also, Job chapter 40 (I believe) contains a description of a creature called "Behemoth". This description perfectly matches an Apatosaurus.

For more info on dinosaurs in the Christian Bible, see Kent Hovind's third video "Dinosaurs in the Bible" on www.drdino.com . And for those of you who malign Kent Hovind, leave the messenger out of it and consider the message that he is telling you. Don't try to destroy the message by attacking the messenger.
Reply

Trumble
09-02-2007, 10:33 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Michael
There is evidence that dinosaurs did live with humans. Human and dinosaur tracks have been found in the same layers of rock. Cave drawings of dinosaurs have been found. The Ica stones in Peru show pictures of humans and dinosaurs co-existing.
There is no 'evidence' whatsoever for this particular fairy story outside the imagination of die-hard creationists. The Ica stones are universally recognised as forgeries by anyone other than creationists and Erich von Daniken "ancient aliens" types. The 'human' tracks at the Paluxy River turned out to be nothing of the sort - although of course trivial details like that get left off creationist websites.
Reply

khairullah
09-02-2007, 10:37 AM
I think something must mentioned in the holy Quran or hadiths regarding Dinasours.

but i dont know this yet.
Reply

Salaam
09-02-2007, 10:52 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by khairullah
I think something must mentioned in the holy Quran or hadiths regarding Dinasours.

but i dont know this yet.
i dont think there is....

Allahu Allam
Reply

ranma1/2
09-02-2007, 10:59 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Malaikah
Creation is literal. God created us in the way He said He did.

There is nothing direct or explicit in Islam to say how long ago the earth was created. I did once come across an article putting together different kinds of figures from here and there to come up with an estimate of how long ago Adam as created (and I can't find it any more!! :() but as for the universe, earth and dinosaurs, we know nothing.
why is it to be taken literal? is the entire quran to be taken literal or do you pick and choose? are there rules to say what is literal or not?

Also why was god so vague in his description "specifically what length days? Human or god days? "
Reply

ranma1/2
09-02-2007, 11:07 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Trumble
There is no 'evidence' whatsoever for this particular fairy story outside the imagination of die-hard creationists. The Ica stones are universally recognised as forgeries by anyone other than creationists and Erich von Daniken "ancient aliens" types. The 'human' tracks at the Paluxy River turned out to be nothing of the sort - although of course trivial details like that get left off creationist websites.
well said. Simply put, if Dr "doin time for his crime" Hovind is your source, you need to read a book. Dr Hovind reminds me of Dr willy in mega man. "except not smart"
Reply

Malaikah
09-02-2007, 11:07 AM
What do you mean by literal? God said He created Adam by clay, so he was created from clay.
Reply

ranma1/2
09-02-2007, 11:09 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Malaikah
What do you mean by literal? God said He created Adam by clay, so he was created from clay.
i might be confusing my hadiths with the quran but doesnt it somewhere say the sun rested in a pond? Or ant speak?
Reply

Malaikah
09-02-2007, 11:22 AM
I thought the sun one was a metaphor? Some one correct me if I am wrong. It should be obvious for a scholar of the Arabic language, especially when added with back up from other verses and from the sayings of the prophet, to differentiate between metaphors, similes and the like, and stuff that is meant to be taken literally.

As for the ant speaking, it is called a miracle.
Reply

Trumble
09-02-2007, 01:09 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Michael
Also, Job chapter 40 (I believe) contains a description of a creature called "Behemoth". This description perfectly matches an Apatosaurus.
Missed this earlier. I'm certainly no Biblical scholar but this seems like yet another example of taking something that makes perfect sense in the context it is presented and turning it into something that doesn't in an attempt to fit science - much like many of the Quran'ic 'scientific' miracles.

Both alternative explanations are far more plausible. The first is that the Behemoth is a mythical, primeval land beast; the water based equivalent of Leviathan (described in the next passage). The other is that it was an actual beast (note the reference to the river Jordan) such as a hippopotamus. Does a hippo have "tail stiff like a cedar?" No, but sauropods did not "eat grass like an ox", either. They had no molars and could not chew. Needless to say, on the time scale suggested by paleontological evidence, grass didn't evolve until long after the last of the sauropods was dead. Again this 'evidence' is such that only someone already committed to creationism would take it seriously.
Reply

Isambard
09-02-2007, 04:47 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Michael
The word 'dinosaur' is a recent creation, as PurestAmbrosia has said. However, before that time, dinosaurs were called "dragons". Just about every culture on this planet has stories about dragons.
.

There is a big difference between dragons mentioned before the Medivel Ages and those mentioned afterwards.

The ones mentioned before as just really large serpents. The dogfaced dragons with feet, arms and sometimes wings dont get popular until the Medivel Ages thru paintings.

To compare a giant Serpant to a dinosaur is crude.
Reply

islamirama
09-02-2007, 06:26 PM
Dinosaurs in the Noble Quran

How Islam Views the Universal Creation

According to Islamic beliefs, how old is the Earth?
Reply

Science101
09-02-2007, 07:20 PM
Thanks Islamirama,

It is now obvious that Quran is in accord with scientific theory. After reading threads in the forum that claim otherwise, the information Muslims are reading is primarily coming from Christian Creationists who are posting their viewpoints all over the internet. There is no scientific debate like they are claiming there is, the scientific community is in agreement (except for a few who have religious or other reasons for ignoring the scientific facts). Ironically, not even the Bible actually supports these claims. They come from another passage in another part of the Bible where it says a day to God is like a thousand years. Long ago someone multiplied a thousand years by the number of days of creation in Genesis and used that as the age of the Earth. The problem is that the two passages are not even related to each other, and if anything, actually suggests that creation did not occur in six literal days and was much longer than that.
Reply

islamirama
09-02-2007, 08:29 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Science101
Thanks Islamirama,

It is now obvious that Quran is in accord with scientific theory. After reading threads in the forum that claim otherwise, the information Muslims are reading is primarily coming from Christian Creationists who are posting their viewpoints all over the internet. There is no scientific debate like they are claiming there is, the scientific community is in agreement (except for a few who have religious or other reasons for ignoring the scientific facts). Ironically, not even the Bible actually supports these claims. They come from another passage in another part of the Bible where it says a day to God is like a thousand years. Long ago someone multiplied a thousand years by the number of days of creation in Genesis and used that as the age of the Earth. The problem is that the two passages are not even related to each other, and if anything, actually suggests that creation did not occur in six literal days and was much longer than that.

When it comes to time, it's all relative. We know very well that hot summer days are longer than the cold winter days. No one can deny that. Then there's also the fact, how do you measure a day?

One earth day is measured by the time it takes the earth to rotate on its axis (24hrs), and 1year is equal to time it takes rotate around the sun. A year on Jupiter is almost twelve Earth years. A day on Jupiter, which is the amount of time it takes to spin around once, is much shorter than a day on Earth. The giant planet's day is only about ten hours long, less than half as long as a Earth day.

So when some 12yr old from jupitar says he is only 1yr old, you will have hard time believing him. So again, what is time really and how is it measure and how relative is it? You are thinking in human time frame that it took 6 days rather then on a more grand scale.

So before we can say how long it takes to create earth or universe, the question first begs to be asked is, how long is a day?

22:47 - And they ask you to hasten on the torment! And Allah fails not His Promise. And verily, a day with your Lord is as a thousand years of what you reckon.

32:5 - He arranges (every) affair from the heavens to the earth, then it (affair) will go up to Him, in one Day, the space whereof is a thousand years of your reckoning (i.e. reckoning of our present world's time).
So now that we have an idea of how long is a day, lets look at other things.

7:54 - Indeed your Lord is Allah, Who created the heavens and the earth in Six Days, and then He Istawa (rose over) the Throne (really in a manner that suits His Majesty). He brings the night as a cover over the day, seeking it rapidly, and (He created) the sun, the moon, the stars subjected to His Command. Surely, His is the Creation and Commandment. Blessed be Allah, the Lord of the 'Alamin (mankind, jinns and all that exists)!

10:3 - Surely, your Lord is Allah Who created the heavens and the earth in six Days and then Istawa (rose over) the Throne (really in a manner that suits His Majesty), disposing the affair of all things. No intercessor (can plead with Him) except after His Leave. That is Allah, your Lord; so worship Him (Alone). Then, will you not remember?

11:7 - And He it is Who has created the heavens and the earth in six Days and His Throne was on the water, that He might try you, which of you is the best in deeds. But if you were to say to them: "You shall indeed be raised up after death," those who disbelieve would be sure to say, "This is nothing but obvious magic."

25:59 - Who created the heavens and the earth and all that is between them in six Days. Then He Istawa (rose over) the Throne (in a manner that suits His Majesty). The Most Beneficent (Allah)! Ask Him (O Prophet Muhammad SAW), (concerning His Qualities, His rising over His Throne, His creations, etc.), as He is Al-Khabir (The All-Knower of everything i.e. Allah).
Well i think that answers that question. But then you say and the books say that it took "millions" of years to create all that. That is being taught as a fact when it is only a theory.

Studying planet-forming discs at this early stage of development could determine which of two competing theories of planet formation is correct.

In the core accretion model, planets form little by little, as material slowly congeals within the disc over millions of years.

The disc instability model suggests that turbulence in the disc can cause matter to collapse into planets extremely quickly, forming Jupiter-like planets in just thousands of years.



http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/6968724.stm
Based on recent observations (see link above), it appears the 2nd theory holds more water stating it would take only thousands of years rather than "over millions of years" for such an event to occur.

But then you might say did God create everything at once? No, everything was done in stages. Look at earth for example...


41:9 - Say (O Muhammad SAW): "Do you verily disbelieve in Him Who created the earth in two Days and you set up rivals (in worship) with Him? That is the Lord of the 'Alamin (mankind, jinns and all that exists).

41:10 - He placed therein (i.e. the earth) firm mountains from above it, and He blessed it, and measured therein its sustenance (for its dwellers) in four Days equal (i.e. all these four 'days' were equal in the length of time), for all those who ask (about its creation).
Notice how it says "four days equal", that shows that the days are not always equal, and God can stretch them as long as He wants or shorten them as much as He wants like our summer/winter days.

So anyways, based on the above Quranic verses, that is what we believe islamically and it seems science is slowly getting there but still has lot to learn and perfect it's theories before it can be as sure as we are with the Quran.
Reply

Science101
09-02-2007, 08:37 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Michael
There is evidence that dinosaurs did live with humans. Human and dinosaur tracks have been found in the same layers of rock. Cave drawings of dinosaurs have been found. The Ica stones in Peru show pictures of humans and dinosaurs co-existing.
Other cultures no doubt found dinosaur fossils and wondered what they were. That does not mean they were alive back then. That would be like someone using a modern book on dinosaurs as proof that dinosaurs (besides birds) are still alive today.

I own a tracksite where hundreds of footprints have been found in many layers. Never once was a human found. The Paluxy River tracks that were claimed to have been of humans only have three toes and are of a dinosaur that has already been identified. All claims that human prints have been found with dinosaurs have been proven to be a hoax, they are not true.

format_quote Originally Posted by Michael
Also, Job chapter 40 (I believe) contains a description of a creature called "Behemoth". This description perfectly matches an Apatosaurus.

For more info on dinosaurs in the Christian Bible, see Kent Hovind's third video "Dinosaurs in the Bible" on www.drdino.com . And for those of you who malign Kent Hovind, leave the messenger out of it and consider the message that he is telling you. Don't try to destroy the message by attacking the messenger.
Kent Hovind suffers from a mental illness that makes him a very poor source of information. Please stay away from anything he has been claiming. He, like others, are claiming that the Bible describes dinosaurs (often as a way to claim that humans and dinosaurs coexisted) but well researched Biblical scholars will tell you this:

No similar parallel, however, has been discovered for the randy Behemoth. The OED speculates that the Hebrew b'hemoth may derive from the Egyptian p-ehe-mau, "water ox," which certainly accords with its description in Job. Many scholars still maintain that it was originally a hippo, though it likely also had some mythical aspect. In any case, "behemoth" has come to be used in English to describe any huge and fearsome beast.
http://www.gracecathedral.org/enrich...20050802.shtml

You are a bright person. Take a very good look at the evidence, you will find that what scientists say is true. And never once was human skeletons found mixed with dinosaurs. Never, ever, did that happen.
Reply

Science101
09-02-2007, 09:15 PM
Islamirama, I'll try to explain another way so we get in the ball-park without needing fancy science to take a good guess at the age.

Millions of years makes sense, using simple logic on what can be seen in my area. For example in my yard is almost 200 million (according to scientists using dating techniques) year old lake mud that slowly accumulated in thin layers until it was over a kilometer deep into the ground, the depth needed to press it into stone. The Earth's crust was pulling apart making a giant crack that slowly got wider, and the mud that was in it was able to sink ever deeper as new mud from surrounding mountains filled this basin. Here's a side view of just a small portion of this accumulation of lake mud. Are maybe 1000 layers of different thickness in just the small area shown in this picture.



There are dinosaur footprints on almost every layer we looked at, so this took a very very long time to accumulate. Much longer than thousands of years if each layer is a seasonal flooding event.

After accumulating to an incredible depth, the crust started tilting which slowly raised what was deep underground and pressed into stone into the air. Glacial cycles (each taking thousands of years) kept scraping away what was on top further north (rocks from here are found further north to prove this) and some into the sea. Scrape marks that are made by glaciers are common here, so we know that glaciers were doing the scraping.

All of these events can be seen by studying the local geology. They are "scientific facts" which indicate that dinosaurs were here millions of years ago, not several thousand. And when other dinosaur tracksites in the area are included there were many thousands of footprints found, but never once was any evidence of a human ever found. Also, my location may have been where the only source of water was when it got hot, so humans would have probably been here if they existed back then, but there is no trace of them. My tracksite is one of many lines of evidence that humans did not coexist with dinosaurs, and the Earth has to be millions of years old (not thousands). This can be seen with our eyes, do not need fancy dating techniques to infer this.
Reply

islamirama
09-02-2007, 09:32 PM
Science101,

I just noticed something from your postings and my postings. My last posting says (Quran) that earth and heavens were created in 6 days, so the posting speaks of how long it took to create all that. Based on recent discovery (also included in my last post), the 2nd theory is more close to fact that it would take 1000s of years to create a planet rather then millions of years. So it seems my post and recent scientific observations of galaxies forming seem to parallel with each other rather than contradict.

You might be right as well when you say millions of years old dinosaurs or what not. Because my post discussed how long it took to create, not how long has it been since creation. We don't now actually how long as the earth been around or our own galaxy. In fact, the universe is so vast and yet it is still expanding as we speak. So many galaxies are just a few days old while others maybe millions of years old. As for dinosaurs being on earth same time as humans, no one honestly knows. We just don't have enough evidence to say they were there or they were not there together. What we do know is that Quran says Allah created ALL forms of Beasts and scattered them all over earth. We humans are a young race, it's very possible that the dinosaurs came before our time came to reside on the earth or it could equally be possible that we co-existed with the dinosaurs. In other words, at this point in time, we can't not say one way or the other for certain. One thing I will say is that Humans were not tiny little creatures compared to dinos as science depicts us like little cavemen.
Reply

Science101
09-02-2007, 10:31 PM
You made some good points that relate to the religious aspects. How much time passed since the "creation" is not mentioned. So that is good question for science to answer. And in no way would that hurt religion. Even Christians have adapted to the modern science, only a relatively small number are fighting it. Evolution is taught at local Catholic schools.

Scientists are now gathering evidence from fossils and genomes that indicate humans came about 60 million years after dinosaurs. You are correct that there is a lot we still don't know, but I think science has a good idea on that timeline. And since birds are actually small dinosaurs I guess we could say that the two coexist together. But the giants with claws instead of wings are all gone which is a good thing because they would have long ago eaten us!

From what has already been discovered, mammals (have fur and glands that secrete milk) took over the planet after the large dinosaurs died out. With dinosaurs around they ruled the planet but after their extinction mammals took over for them. It's a very striking mass extinction, in fact paleontologists actually measure time from one mass extinction event to another because it's so easy to see in the strata around the world. Below a certain point it's all dinosaur remains. Then there is a layer that contains the metal iridium which suggests an asteroid impact that filled the sky with dust and debris. Then right above that are no dinosaurs at all, instead mammals are found and they are quickly evolving to fill the niches (places where there is a way to get food) that the dinosaurs once filled. Then way above that, in the uppermost layers, there are the primates (five finger with thumb for grasping, flat nails instead of claws, unique bone structure, etc) and at the very topmost layers are early human remains. It's a progression that is hard to argue against but those who do not want to accept this evidence are trying to confuse us about what scientists have already found.

Here's a good website that biologists around the world contribute their data to. It shows the relationship of extant (still alive) animals:

http://www.tolweb.org/tree/
Reply

Science101
09-02-2007, 10:36 PM
And here is the current cladogram of dinosaurs that scientists now have.

Early dino's (found at my tracksite) are at top, what they evolved into shown below that.

This is the link in case it's easier to see, but it's still a big graphic!

http://www.gavinrymill.com/dinosaurs...amComplete.jpg



http://www.gavinrymill.com/dinosaurs/cladogram.html
Reply

space
02-23-2020, 03:13 PM
no one should be thinking like if they are not mentioned in the Quran and sunna then it is not possible
Reply

Hey there! Looks like you're enjoying the discussion, but you're not signed up for an account.

When you create an account, you can participate in the discussions and share your thoughts. You also get notifications, here and via email, whenever new posts are made. And you can like posts and make new friends.
Sign Up

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 25
    Last Post: 06-26-2008, 04:42 PM
  2. Replies: 2
    Last Post: 01-01-2008, 05:42 AM
  3. Replies: 2
    Last Post: 04-28-2007, 05:31 AM
  4. Replies: 6
    Last Post: 11-02-2006, 01:16 PM
  5. Replies: 36
    Last Post: 05-29-2006, 12:33 AM
British Wholesales - Certified Wholesale Linen & Towels | Holiday in the Maldives

IslamicBoard

Experience a richer experience on our mobile app!