Muslims tortured in Kenya

[Skywalker]

:sl:

"By Jeremy Clarke
Thu Aug 30, 11:31 AM ET

NAIROBI (Reuters) - Kenyan Muslims marched on police headquarters in Nairobi on Thursday in protest against what they called the illegal detention and torture of fellow Muslims in an anti-terrorist drive urged on by the United States.

The protest involving a few dozen people followed months of simmering tensions between the east African nation's Muslim community and authorities they accuse of persecuting and arresting them on U.S. government orders.

"We don't expect this in our country. Just how much power do the Americans have over the Kenyan government?" said Al-Amin Kimathi, chairman of Kenya's Muslim Human Rights Forum.

Kenyan authorities could not be reached for comment.

The United States embassy in Nairobi said the United States was committed to working with regional partners to oppose terrorism.

"We are working to...disrupt the efforts of terrorists wherever they may be active," embassy spokeswoman Jennifer Barnes said.

Human Rights groups accuse Kenya of involvement in a clandestine U.S. practice of detainee transfer known as rendition.

AGGRESSIVE INTERROGATING

Kenyan police arrested scores of people on the Somali border in January and February after allied Ethiopian and Somali government troops chased Islamist fighters Washington accuses of having links to Al Qaeda out of Mogadishu.

Human rights groups say Kenyan authorities put dozens of terror suspects from Kenya on secret rendition flights to Ethiopia for interrogation by U.S. officials. Local activists said none had been prosecuted in any court.

"We know from a released prisoner that it is Americans doing the aggressive interrogating, and the Kenyan government is making it possible for them," Kimathi said.

At police headquarters, protesters demanded to know the whereabouts of two brothers who have gone missing.

They said Kenyan police took the younger brother to Somalia, then Ethiopia, in January without charge or explanation. He was able to contact relatives once to tell of his torture, the activists say.

Police seized his older brother last week outside a Nairobi mosque, according to relatives who were told nothing further and fear he faces the same fate as his younger brother.

Family members of the two brothers joined Thursday's protest and delivered a letter to police.

"The crack-down of so-called terrorists...is a blanket design and a veiled, skilful and state-orchestrated machination aimed at intimidating, harassing and persecuting members of the Muslim community," the letter said.

(Additional reporting by Tim Cocks in Nairobi)"

Source: http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070830/...nya_muslims_dc

So it looks like we have yet another country that's joining the ranks in illegaly kidnapping and torturing Muslims.

Here's a little suggestion though: why don't we open a new forum called "Comments on news articles" or something...and make it in a way that you don't have to wait for approval? That would be cool and efficient.

:w:

[Keltoi]

Yeah, because we all know there was never torture and human rights abuses in Africa before George Bush...

[Intisar]

:sl: Being of Somali and Kenyan origin and as a Muslim, I find this very disgusting. Torture? Interrogation? Al-Qaeda? These are just excuses to go and torture whoever they deem a 'terrorist', quite disturbing to say the least.

[NoName55]

Yeah, because we all know there was never torture and human rights abuses in Africa before George Bush...

wow! what a "constructive" comment!!

if caught, deny deny deny or belittle the messenger and hey presto subject changed.

put victim on stand (at this rate, soon the victims will be made to compensate their tortures for loss of time and wear and tear on his equipment

are Tim Cocks and Jeremy Clarke in league with Bush enemies?

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[Keltoi]

wow! what a "constructive" comment!!

if caught, deny deny deny or belittle the messenger and hey presto subject changed.

put victim on stand (at this rate, soon the victims will be made to compensate their tortures for loss of time and wear and tear on his equipment

The article mentions nothing but heresay and the protests of a half dozen people in front of a police station. I know it is hip these days to lay every negative event on the U.S. and the "War on Terror", but the reality is that people are arrested and brutalized in African police stations all the time, outside of any anti-terror initiative. In my opinion, the most likely scenario is that some Kenyan police officers abused their authority, (imagine that), and justified it by pointing to anti-terror efforts. The article's attempt to connect this event to George Bush and the War on Terror is fairly weak in my opinion....if you don't agree, great for you.

[NoName55]

The article mentions nothing but hearsay and the protests of a half dozen people in front of a police station. I know it is hip these days to lay every negative event on the U.S. and the "War on Terror", but the reality is that people are arrested and brutalized in African police stations all the time, outside of any anti-terror initiative. In my opinion, the most likely scenario is that some Kenyan police officers abused their authority, (imagine that), and justified it by pointing to anti-terror efforts. The article's attempt to connect this event to George Bush and the War on Terror is fairly weak in my opinion....if you don't agree, great for you.

exactly! much better than a one liner, ain't it? this how it cold have been done by you in the first instance thus making it needless for me to comment as I did.

I could have simply pressed the rep button and given thumbs up or would have ignored it, thus saving all this expended energy

[Cognescenti]

I have a feeling the Kenyans might be a bit distrustful after their experience in 1998. Many more Kenyans were killed than were Americans.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi..._bombing_1.jpg

212 were killed and 4000 wounded.

It is not obvious to me they need the US to give them marching orders.

Also of interest to me ....the other big African embassy bombing was at Dar es Salaam. :rollseyes Does anyone else see some irony in that?

[NoName55]

is this one on topic or is it trying to blame current situation on embassy bombings? thus changing topic from "stop torture" to "lets intensify it"

wasalam

[Sami Zaatari]

lol again westerners change topic, or they actually try to justify it, lol this is too funny, we muslims should never condemn anything from now on, :) thats why i never condemn anything because they will never do it neither, so why shud i? condemn bin laden? nahhhhhhhh id rather go sleep and eat lunch thanks.

[barney]

This article seems to suggest that it is Paid US Government employees using physical torture on suspects.

If that came to be a provable fact, and i would encourage anyone to accertain if it is fact, then It would be the end of the Bush regime. (Not a bad thing in itself).

[Sami Zaatari]

Yeah, because we all know there was never torture and human rights abuses in Africa before George Bush...

people notice how sick and twisted this logic is, and sadly many ppl in the west are starting to use this same logic as keloti.

basically just because torture happened in africa before george W bush and before the war on terror, this then means its ok and no big deal that torture is happening now because of bush and the war on terror because hey it was already going on! hey buddy TORTURE IS NEVER OKAY NO MATTER WHAT DECADE OR CENTURY! torture back then was wrong, and torture now because of your president is just as bad!

[Zman]

:sl:

That's a badge of shame on our government.

There have been numerous articles stating that there has been a spike in abductions, detentions, and violence perpetrated by local governments (leading the pack is Ethiopia), at the encouragement of our government.

The FBI is aware of what is going on, have personally participated and observed these interrogations and violations of human dignity.

History will not be kind to this American adminsitartion (and future administrations, if they choose to continue nurturing the mess that President Cheney & his loyal subject dubya have created)...

[Isambard]

As Keltoi mentioned, to early to be pointing fingers, they would need some hard evidence.

Though I hardly would be surprised if the story were true. I mean anyone remember 80s S. America? El Che? The Columbian paramilitary groups? etc

Its an old tactic

[Cognescenti]

If you folks can't see a link between the Nairobi bombing and a potential "aggressiveness" of Kenyan authorities toward those holding radical anti-kuffar views (call them un-Islamic views if you wish) then there is some serious naivete around here.

This link seems strained yet OBl is termed a "former employee"? ^o)

Is it possible that names are being passed to the Kenyans? Yes, I think it is very likely. What is wrong with that? It's called intelligence sharing. :D I'm not sure I believe this business about secret flight to Ethiopia. Seems like a big, leaky conspiracy to me.

[Cognescenti]

:sl:

That's a badge of shame on our government.

There have been numerous articles stating that there has been a spike in abductions, detentions, and violence perpetrated by local governments (leading the pack is Ethiopia), at the encouragement of our government.

The FBI is aware of what is going on, have personally participated and observed these interrogations and violations of human dignity.

History will not be kind to this American adminsitartion (and future administrations, if they choose to continue nurturing the mess that President Cheney & his loyal subject dubya have created)...

Where did you get that, Democratic Underground? :rolleyes:

[NoName55]

Note: since my memory and typing prowess are somewhat lacking, I will often be editing and correcting factual as well as typing errors

lol again westerners change topic, or they actually try to justify it, lol this is too funny, we muslims should never condemn anything from now on, :) thats why i never condemn anything because they will never do it neither, so why shud i? condemn bin laden? nahhhhhhhh id rather go sleep and eat lunch thanks.

we are not permitted to back killers, be it DumBush or CIA's retarded former employee Bin Laden, we are duty-bound to condemn both if we can do so in safety.

If you folks can't see a link between the Nairobi bombing and a potential "aggressiveness" of Kenyan authorities toward those holding radical anti-kuffar views (call them un-Islamic views if you wish) then there is some serious naivete around here.

This link seems strained yet OBl is termed a "former employee"? ^o)

,,,,.

some of us have not been in England or US all our life nor do we get our knowledge from Daniel Pipes (though I will be using some of his research).

In fact some us were serving in Pakistan Armed Forces during its war against commies on behalf of Afghanistan with help of CIA.

Guess who the agents on the ground were supplying us and providing intelligence about Russian movements
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
a snippet from an article by daniel Pipes


With C.I.A. funding, Osama bin Laden imported engineers and equipment from his father’s Saudi construction company to build tunnels for guerrilla training centers and hospitals, and for arms dumps near the Pakistan border. He bought equipment from himself with US money.

United States and Saudi Arabia spent about $40 billion on the war in Afghanistan, recruiting, supplying, and training nearly 100,000 men from forty Muslim countries. Among the recruits were Osama bin Laden and his followers.

Salem bin Laden, Osama’s brother, has conducted all his American affairs through James Bath, a Houston crony of the Bush family. Bath’s former business partner Bill White testified in court that Bath had been a liaison for the C.I.A. In 1979 Bath invested $50,000 in Arbusto, George W. Bush’s first business venture. Rumor had it that Bath was acting as Salem bin Laden’s representative. "In conflicting statements, Bush at first denied ever knowing Bath, then acknowledged his stake in Arbusto and that he was aware Bath represented Saudi interests."

THE GW BUSH - OSAMA BIN LADIN CONNECTION


details to follow later

[Muezzin]

Removed all the posts about Iran. This topic is about Kenya, a whole continent apart.

[Cognescenti]

we are not permitted to back killers, be it DumBush or his daddy's retarded former employee Bin Laden, we are duty-bound to condemn both if we can do so in safety.some of us have not been in England or US all our life nor do we get our knowledge from Daniel Pipes.

In fact some us were serving in Pakistan Armed Forces during its war against commies on behalf of Afghanistan with help of CIA.

Guess who was boss of CIA and who the agents on the ground were supplying us and providing intelligence about Russian movements

Let us examine your hypothesis.

1) The CIA supplied guns, anti-aircraft missiles, military advice and training, communicatiosn equipment and intel to the indigenous mujahadeen during the Soviet War in Afghanistan......CHECK

2) The CIA likely enlisted the help of Pakistani Intelligence services....CHECK

3) George Bush (41) was director of the CIA in 1976-77......CHECK

4) Soviet Afghan invasion was in 1979......OOOOPS

5) OBL was in Afghanistan with one of those funny hats on and despite the fact that he had >100M of his own money, hated the US and the Saudi Royal Family, he still signed up to work for the CIA. In fact he was in the choir at "The Company" Christmas party at Langley and performed a solo of "Oh Tannenbaum"....BZZZZZT


BTW...isn't Daniel pipes thing pretty much Iraq. I don't read him. I get all my world news from Li Islamic Forum. That is where I learned:

1) Mossad blew up the WTC
2) The CIA attacked the Pentagon with a missile.
3) Everyone at Git'mo is either an innocent tobacconist from Uxbridge or was in Afghanistan for their cousin's wedding and were turned over to the US by the Northern Alliance for money rewards.
4) The secret War on Islam is being run by Dick Chenney from a secret room behind a big curtain
5) The Afghan attack was to procure rights to a pipeline
6) Its all about oil in Iraq
7) OBL would be betting on camel races and shopping for speedboats if it weren't for the CIA

[barney]

So , if the original source is bullettproof, is it the Zionist media that prevents the UN from taking action? Or is it that the USA controls the UN?

[Isambard]

So , if the original source is bullettproof, is it the Zionist media that prevents the UN from taking action? Or is it that the USA controls the UN?

The latter instead of the former. The rest of the UN isnt happy about it and quite a few Americans dont like the UN.