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islamirama
09-02-2007, 06:35 PM
The Iraq Holocaust.


U.S. Media Ignores Estimate of 1 Million Iraqi Deaths

August 14, 2007

Yesterday a radio interviewer in South Africa asked me what had been the response of the "mainstream media in the United States" to Just Foreign Policy's ongoing estimate of the Iraqi death toll from the U.S. invasion and occupation, which on Thursday crossed the one million mark.


Sadly, I had to report that it has been ignored by mainstream media, even the wire services. But this is hardly surprising. A main motivation for constructing the web counter was to keep the "Lancet study" alive. The "Lancet study," you'll recall, was a study published last fall in the British medical journal The Lancet, which estimated that more than 600,000 Iraqis had had been killed as a result of the invasion as of July 2006. The media largely buried the Lancet study when it was published - and have largely ignored the question of the overall death toll from the U.S. invasion - so it's little surprise that they have ignored our attempt to shine a light on this question.

The Lancet study is the only existing study that uses the method accepted all over the world for estimating deaths due to large-scale violent conflict: a cluster survey. Its principal deficit for understanding the current situation is that the survey it was based on is now a year old, so that when people want to invoke the Lancet study to describe the death toll, they are likely to say, "a year ago the death toll was over 600,000" - leaving out what has happened since. Since the Lancet study is "old news," it's progressively easier to ignore it over time. It was this problem that gave us the idea of constructing an ongoing, rough update.

The tally of deaths reported in the Western media by Iraq Body Count, although it gives an inaccurate picture of the overall death toll, does have the advantage that it is regularly updated. So while the Iraq Body Count tally, by itself, doesn't help us understand the overall death toll, it does give us some information about the trend over time, because one can compare, for example, the Iraq Body Count tally today with the Iraq Body Count tally from July 2006.

Thus, we constructed our ongoing online estimate - for which we provide the code so you can include it on your own web page - by extrapolating from the Lancet estimate using the trend provided by Iraq Body Count.

Our extrapolation assumes that Iraq Body Count is capturing a fixed proportion of the true level of deaths over time. This is a conservative assumption, because it is likely that Iraq Body Count is capturing a smaller share of the true death toll over time, as reporting from Iraq becomes progressively more difficult. By assuming that Iraq Body Count captures a constant share, we will tend to underestimate the true death toll.
Note that the number we focus on is the Lancet estimate of excess deaths due to violence. Thus, we understate the death toll by ignoring, say, increased deaths due to cholera which could be attributed, at least in part, to the destruction resulting from the U.S. invasion and occupation.

Note further that a straight-line extrapolation from the Lancet study - ignoring any increase in the death rate in the last year from the average between March, 2003 and July, 2006 - an average that includes the first year of the occupation, when by all accounts the death rate was lower - would still result in more than 750,000 excess deaths due to violence.

Increasingly, the U.S. occupation is described as a passive onlooker to the violence. This is deeply misleading for two reasons. First, the civil war - or civil wars - that have been unleashed in Iraq was a predictable - and predicted - result of the U.S. invasion. Everything is predicted if one searches enough, but in this case, for example, James Baker gave the threat of unleashing a civil war as a key reason why the U.S. didn't go to Baghdad in 1991, so it's absurd to treat this as an unforeseeable consequence. Second, the picture is being obscured by underreporting in the U.S. of deaths from U.S. air strikes, raids, and shooting at checkpoints.

Why does this matter? Obviously, we have a responsibility to understand the world as best we can, and nowhere is this responsibility greater than in trying to understand the consequences of the actions of our government. But the question is particularly urgent, because there is a major effort underway to rehabilitate the war politically, by cherry-picking - and misinterpreting - current developments. The surge is working, we are told: it must be given more time. If the scale of the overall death toll from the U.S. invasion becomes part of the debate, this sleight-of-hand will be much harder to maintain.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/robert...a_b_60396.html
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wilberhum
09-05-2007, 08:37 PM
I have searched and searched Al Jazeera and I can't find any thing about this.

So is it just the U.S. media?
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SATalha
09-05-2007, 08:51 PM
I still dont believe that People think the US and British army are there for the right reasons.
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wilberhum
09-05-2007, 08:55 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by SATalha
I still dont believe that People think the US and British army are there for the right reasons.
I have never meet anyone that supported the war.
Bush's rating is below 1/3. I think that is a good indicator.
But still 1/3, I don't see how it can be above 1/100000.
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SATalha
09-05-2007, 08:57 PM
Iam not talking about the masses........
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Md Mashud
09-05-2007, 08:57 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by wilberhum
I have never meet anyone that supported the war.
Bush's rating is below 1/3. I think that is a good indicator.
But still 1/3, I don't see how it can be above 1/100000.
You don't seem to meet alot of people! First no atheists who don't use weird logic, now this :O, I must say I am shocked, if anything I've seen too many people who supported it. Maybe its different in USA:), but then that doesn't make sense as Bush did get reelected over kerry :/. Maybe its a Christian thing, that made Bush get re-elected, meh...
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wilberhum
09-05-2007, 09:00 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by SATalha
Iam not talking about the masses........
Then I don't understand what you are talking about.

So what are you takling about?
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wilberhum
09-05-2007, 09:10 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Md Mashud
You don't seem to meet alot of people! First no atheists who don't use weird logic, now this :O, I must say I am shocked, if anything I've seen too many people who supported it. Maybe its different in USA:), but then that doesn't make sense as Bush did get reelected over kerry :/. Maybe its a Christian thing, that made Bush get re-elected, meh...
First my atheists friends are logical. I think most "not dumb" people are logical. :D

Maybe "birds of a feather" explains why I don't know any war activests.:giggling:

At the time, I think many people believed the Bush scare tactics.

I can think of no other reason.
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InToTheRain
09-05-2007, 09:14 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by wilberhum
I have searched and searched Al Jazeera and I can't find any thing about this.
By the way you may be looking at wrong one:

because of international Trade Mark laws.

aljazeera and al Jazeera are two separate companies. aljazeera and it's subsidiaries are a British founded company. Which is probably a subsidiary of either Time-Warner or CNN.

al Jazeera and it's subsidiaries is a Qatar owned company.

two totaly seperate groups. since the question is asking about alJazeera I guessed as to whether it was owned by CNN or Time-Warner.
http://www.islamicboard.com/general/...jazeera-2.html
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Suomipoika
09-05-2007, 09:20 PM
I still dont believe people repeat these figures from lancet study as somekind of religious mantra. Its kind of telling that the study with the highest civilian casualty figure is adopted as the "true" value.
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wilberhum
09-05-2007, 09:20 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Z.AL-Rashid
By the way you may be looking at wrong one:



http://www.islamicboard.com/general/...jazeera-2.html
Wow thanks. I never knew of the name confusion. :thumbs_up

I use http://english.aljazeera.net/ I'm sure that is the one in Qatar.

Am I wrong? :hmm:
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InToTheRain
09-05-2007, 09:37 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by wilberhum
Wow thanks. I never knew of the name confusion. :thumbs_up

I use http://english.aljazeera.net/ I'm sure that is the one in Qatar.

Am I wrong? :hmm:
I dunno need to know myself LOL. I don't know where it is :confused:

Let me know if you or anyone else finds it :confused:

I heard the place was levelled to the ground at some point, maybe they just dont exist now? this may interest you:

http://media.guardian.co.uk/iraqandt...055780,00.html
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wilberhum
09-05-2007, 09:38 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Suomipoika
I still dont believe people repeat these figures from lancet study as somekind of religious mantra. Its kind of telling that the study with the highest civilian casualty figure is adopted as the "true" value.
My concern with the "Lancet study" is that they seam to ignore the more than a million killed by Saddam Hussein.

But still, as I said earlier more than 1 (Saddam Hussein) is too many.

I don't support the war in any way shape or form.

But I don't think distortions are a good thing.
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NoName55
09-05-2007, 09:47 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by wilberhum
My concern with the "Lancet study" is that they seam to ignore the more than a million killed by Saddam Hussein.

But still, as I said earlier more than 1 (Saddam Hussein) is too many.

I don't support the war in any way shape or form.

But I don't think distortions are a good thing.
before I reply to that line, may I ask if your are or have ever been related to or are a friend of site owner, staff or their friends
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Woodrow
09-05-2007, 09:55 PM
EVERYBODY PLEASE STAY ON TOPIC AND NO PERSONAL ARGUMENTS. IF THERE ARE ANY COMPLAINTS ABOUT ANY POSTS USE THE REPORT BUTTON. DO NOT REPLY BACK.

THE REPORT BUTTON DOES WORK, BUT Y'ALL ARE KEEPING THE SHERIFF BUSY.


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wilberhum
09-05-2007, 09:56 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Z.AL-Rashid
I dunno need to know myself LOL. I don't know where it is :confused:

Let me know if you or anyone else finds it :confused:

I heard the place was levelled to the ground at some point, maybe they just dont exist now? this may interest you:

http://media.guardian.co.uk/iraqandt...055780,00.html
From what I can find aljazeera.net is a news source out of Qatar.
aljazeera.com seams to be by the same company but in magazine form.
I can find no connection between an aljazeera and CNN. (That only means I didn't find any).

I concider .NET a good news source.
.COM looks line a hate magazine.
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Cognescenti
09-05-2007, 09:58 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Suomipoika
I still dont believe people repeat these figures from lancet study as somekind of religious mantra. Its kind of telling that the study with the highest civilian casualty figure is adopted as the "true" value.
Tell it brother. The Lancet study was blessed with an author with a political agenda and was rushed to publication without the standard peer-review process just in time for a US election. Imagine that. :statisfie

oh, did I mention the author did not "keep" the raw data for "security reasons" :D

Oh, did I further mention that, according to the Lancet study, the average daily mortality attributable to the war (for every single day of the war >500) is higher than the single highest daily total reported in the media.

Mothing to see here. Please move along.
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wilberhum
09-05-2007, 10:10 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by NoName55
before I reply to that line, may I ask if your are or have ever been related to or are a friend of site owner, staff or their friends
I am not and have never been related to or are a friend of any site owner, staff or there friends. Honest!

But I am an undecover agent for the CIA.
My current mission is to alter information on Wikipedia. :giggling:
Reply

Woodrow
09-05-2007, 10:11 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by wilberhum
I know I am off topic but I just gotta. :D

Total lack of response from using the "REPORT BUTTON" seams to render it useless.

Maybe it works for some, but mine seam to go unnoticed. :-\
In that event PM any mod you see on line.

When I am on line I often do not check my emails often enough. The reports come to us by email.

I can only speak for myself. If you see me online, I probably am not reading my emails.
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InToTheRain
09-05-2007, 10:12 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by wilberhum
From what I can find aljazeera.net is a news source out of Qatar.
aljazeera.com seams to be by the same company but in magazine form.
I can find no connection between an aljazeera and CNN. (That only means I didn't find any).

I concider .NET a good news source.
.COM looks line a hate magazine.
The funny thing is that when I used the Al jazeera TV 6 or 7 years back think it was completely diffrent to the way it presents itself now.

It had many (I know you won't like this ;D) toons such which were against the Leaders of US, Uk, Israel, even the Saudi govermetn which is a Muslim nation! Toons like this:

http://tvnewslies.org/html/explanation.html

But I mainly used CNN and BBC news and rarely used any other sources. But man, at some point it just got too derpressing watching what was happening so when I whent back to see whaat Al-Jazeera had to say and imagine My shock when I saw:

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exer...BBE2A36665.htm

I was :confused: :confused: :confused:
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wilberhum
09-05-2007, 10:15 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Woodrow
In that event PM any mod you see on line.

When I am on line I often do not check my emails often enough. The reports come to us by email.

I can only speak for myself. If you see me online, I probably am not reading my emails.
The last time I PM'ed a MOD the reply, a day later, was bacisly "Notmyjobman" contact someone else.

But hay, I'm up for a retry next time I am attacked.
Reply

wilberhum
09-05-2007, 10:21 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Z.AL-Rashid
The funny thing is that when I used the Al jazeera TV 6 or 7 years back think it was completely diffrent to the way it presents itself now.

It had many (I know you won't like this ;D) toons such which were against the Leaders of US, Uk, Israel, even the Saudi govermetn which is a Muslim nation! Toons like this:

http://tvnewslies.org/html/explanation.html

But I mainly used CNN and BBC news and rarely used any other sources. But man, at some point it just got too derpressing watching what was happening so when I whent back to see whaat Al-Jazeera had to say and imagine My shock when I saw:

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exer...BBE2A36665.htm

I was :confused: :confused: :confused:
http://tvnewslies.org/html/explanation.html
Now that is funney. The first rule of humor is you have to laugh at your self.

I never saw Al jazeera TV, and 6 or 7 years ago, I would not have bothered.

But as I said before I conceder the .net a good news source.
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InToTheRain
09-05-2007, 10:38 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by wilberhum
Now that is funney. The first rule of humor is you have to laugh at your self.

;D Ain't got a problem laughing at myself, or people laughing with me...so long as they don't laugh at me :mad: ;D
Reply

Haidar_Abbas
09-06-2007, 06:38 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by wilberhum
I have searched and searched Al Jazeera and I can't find any thing about this.

So is it just the U.S. media?

^^^hahahahahahahahaahahahahahah it helps to speak arabic ................
and besides just turn the tv to al jazeera youll see the actions of occupiers on us....

-----------------------------------------------------
but on topic wallahi, a situation isnt a genocide if its us who's dying..but it is if its some other pplz how insane....may Allah(SWT) fortify us against the legionaires of iblis (aouthoo billahi min ashaitanir rajeem) aameen. :sl:
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wilberhum
09-06-2007, 06:46 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Haidar_Abbas
^^^hahahahahahahahaahahahahahah it helps to speak arabic ................
and besides just turn the tv to al jazeera youll see the actions of occupiers on us....

-----------------------------------------------------
but on topic wallahi, a situation isnt a genocide if its us who's dying..but it is if its some other pplz how insane....may Allah(SWT) fortify us against the legionaires of iblis (aouthoo billahi min ashaitanir rajeem) aameen. :sl:
As tipical, you lack knowledge. :hmm: They have an english site. :rollseyes
Al Jazerra does not broadcast in the US. :?
I guess you don't know that either. :enough!:
Or maybe you think Seattle is some place in the Middle East. :giggling:
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sudais1
10-23-2007, 05:23 PM
^^True:D fully agree.

Also, the americans said they would only leave once the country become stable. That will never happen becomes all the fighters want U.S out. there fighintg the United States and the puppet government they put in Place
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islamirama
10-23-2007, 05:29 PM
Liars! Liars! Liars!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oEFV0xM5Mus
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Whatsthepoint
10-23-2007, 06:39 PM
It was an unwise decision to invade a religiously mixed country, especilly one, where certain religious groups had been supressed.
It should have been atacked diplomatically, by severe political and economical sanctions. this could have forced Saddam into ending discrimination of Curds and Shiites...
Reply

MTAFFI
10-23-2007, 06:49 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Whatsthepoint
It was an unwise decision to invade a religiously mixed country, especilly one, where certain religious groups had been supressed.
It should have been atacked diplomatically, by severe political and economical sanctions. this could have forced Saddam into ending discrimination of Curds and Shiites...
I wish I could agree with that except Iraq was already under severe sanctions and rather than save his own people from starvation and dehydration and horrible living conditions, he back doored the UN and went to Russia and other "rogue" states to get his arms and spent his money there, and of course on lavish palaces, etc. Did you know that Saddam was actually offered on a bi monthly basis humanitarian aid on a scale that would have benefitted those in his country in need and he denied it because it was not coupled with military arms agreements?

That said it was stupid to invade Iraq
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islamirama
10-23-2007, 09:26 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Whatsthepoint
It was an unwise decision to invade a religiously mixed country, especilly one, where certain religious groups had been supressed.
It should have been atacked diplomatically, by severe political and economical sanctions. this could have forced Saddam into ending discrimination of Curds and Shiites...
was 10yrs of sanctions by bush daddy and starving to death of 2 million iraqi children not enough? How come US doesn't do anything about barak of egypt or musharaf of pakistan or other US boot licker for oppressing his people?
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Whatsthepoint
10-23-2007, 09:36 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by islamirama
was 10yrs of sanctions by bush daddy and starving to death of 2 million iraqi children not enough? How come US doesn't do anything about barak of egypt or musharaf of pakistan or other US boot licker for oppressing his people?
Saddam's cruel regime had to be terminated! That, however, wasn't the inital reason why we invaded it...
Either Dubya wanted to finish off where his daddy left or the US just wanted a strategic position, oil and a place for american companies to earn big time. If so, the plan didn't quite work out.

Well, the regime's gone, formerly opressed groups have their rights, Iraq is a democracy (!:D) etc etc.
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snakelegs
10-23-2007, 11:44 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Whatsthepoint
formerly opressed groups have their rights, Iraq is a democracy (!:D) etc etc.
is this a joke?
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sudais1
10-24-2007, 02:14 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Whatsthepoint
Saddam's cruel regime had to be terminated!
Well, the regime's gone, formerly opressed groups have their rights, Iraq is a democracy (!:D) etc etc.
What Democracy? please elaborate.
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Whatsthepoint
10-24-2007, 08:57 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by sudais1
What Democracy? please elaborate.
You know, free elections...:playing:
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tomtomsmom
10-24-2007, 02:10 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by islamirama
Thank you for sharing that. I have signed that petition already. Too bad it hasn't worked!
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islamirama
10-24-2007, 03:05 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by tomtomsmom
Thank you for sharing that. I have signed that petition already. Too bad it hasn't worked!
i'm not much believer in petitions. especially these online ones. they have not done anything for anyone. When other side is using force then this side needs to use force as well, but positive force. Going out in protest and marching in the streets in thousands, disturbing the daily routine of the city/nation is a lot more effective than some petition.
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tomtomsmom
10-24-2007, 03:31 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by islamirama
i'm not much believer in petitions. especially these online ones. they have not done anything for anyone. When other side is using force then this side needs to use force as well, but positive force. Going out in protest and marching in the streets in thousands, disturbing the daily routine of the city/nation is a lot more effective than some petition.
I agree. I would much rather go to a peace rally than sign petitions but my husband doesn't want me to go to any. He doesn't think they are safe.
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