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Genius
09-09-2005, 05:36 PM
What are your views on this?

Personally I think it's impossible, i just read about how American soldiers shot dead a reuters sound man and refused water to his injured colleague.

In addition to the trigger happy americans, are the terrorists who have massacred thousands in suicide bombings.

It seems that the shia's who have been relatively quite until now are also starting to vent their anger towards the sunni community in genral.

The Americans won't leave, terrorists won't stop murdering and now everything just seems like it's going to spiral out of control.

I feel sorry for our Iraqi brothers, not only cos of their religon, but because they are human, i'd hate to see anyone go through what they go through.

Are you all as pessmistic as I am?
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minaz
09-09-2005, 06:20 PM
I dunno what to think you know Genius, you can't go in there and divide the de facto segregation of the country into 3 separate ones (oil and other resources would be argued over). If the Kurds, Shiites (not swearing honest :p) and Sunni’s can at least try to live side by side then the invasion would have had gained at least one positive.
Yeah and like that's gonna happen! Guess all I and you can do is to continue in our du'as
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Ummu Amatullah
09-10-2005, 01:24 PM
Asallama Alaikum seriously Iraq is going to get out of control.Like brother Genius said,"The Americans won't leave, terrorists won't stop murdering and now everything just seems like it's going to spiral out of control."It's in Allah's(S.W.T) hands now.May Allah make everything turn out for the better ameen.May Allah grant the Mujahids victory ameen. :D :D :D
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Muezzin
09-10-2005, 08:55 PM
May Allah grant the Mujahids victory ameen. :D :D :D
Erm, not to rain on your parade or anything, but I think Genius was referring to the 'Mujahids' when he said 'terrorists' ;)

That said, I do agree it's in Allah's hands now. His are the only hands not stained with blood.
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S_87
09-10-2005, 09:01 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Shukri
.May Allah make everything turn out for the better ameen.May Allah grant the Mujahids victory ameen. :D :D :D
:sl:

...in iraq,afghan,palestine and everywhere else
Ameen Thumma Ameen.!
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Ummu Amatullah
09-11-2005, 02:50 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Muezzin
Erm, not to rain on your parade or anything, but I think Genius was referring to the 'Mujahids' when he said 'terrorists' ;)

That said, I do agree it's in Allah's hands now. His are the only hands not stained with blood.
Asallama Alaikum maybe we should clear up on who the real terrorists are.This is terrorism:
http://www.terrorking.tk/

(Viewer discretion advised--a couple of pictures are GRAPHIC. ).
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Genius
09-11-2005, 10:46 AM
Erm...yes...... Just because the Americans are bad we should forget all about the crimes of the so called 'mujahideen'.
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Ummu Amatullah
09-11-2005, 12:15 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Genius
Erm...yes...... Just because the Americans are bad we should forget all about the crimes of the so called 'mujahideen'.
Asallama Alaikum brother out of curiosity exactly what are those crimes you speak of?
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Genius
09-11-2005, 12:58 PM
Murder, torture, kidnapping, terrorism.
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Ummu Amatullah
09-11-2005, 01:06 PM
Asallama Alaikum so I guess the American troops aren't guilty of that as well?(sarcasm).
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Muezzin
09-11-2005, 01:21 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Shukri
Asallama Alaikum so I guess the American troops aren't guilty of that as well?(sarcasm).
Genius' point is that both sides are as bad as each other.

I happen to agree with him. A person is cool. People generally suck.
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Ummu Amatullah
09-11-2005, 01:28 PM
Don't you always?
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S_87
09-11-2005, 01:28 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Genius
Murder, torture, kidnapping, terrorism.
:sl:

do you believe they, the *terrorists* should stop attacking?
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Far7an
09-11-2005, 01:30 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by amani
:sl:

do you believe they, the *terrorists* should stop attacking?
Innocent civilians? yes :)
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Ummu Amatullah
09-11-2005, 01:32 PM
I'm just wondering why muslims such as ourselves are sticking up for the kufaar?
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S_87
09-11-2005, 01:37 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Far7an
Innocent civilians? yes :)
:sl:

indeed, civilians shouldnt be targeted, but the occupying forces and those who assist the forces?
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minaz
09-11-2005, 01:38 PM
I'm just wondering why muslims such as ourselves are sticking up for the kufaar?
Because we are the best group of people, we don't judge a person because of their religion but of their actions
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Far7an
09-11-2005, 01:38 PM
Assalamu alaikum
format_quote Originally Posted by Shukri
I'm just wondering why muslims such as ourselves are sticking up for the kufaar?
Allah tells us in the quran, in Surah Baqarah ayah 190

Fight in the cause of Allah those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for Allah loveth not transgressors.
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Ummu Amatullah
09-11-2005, 01:40 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by minaz
Because we are the best group of people, we don't judge a person because of their religion but of their actions
If that's the case then why are you people acting as if they aren't guilty?
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Ummu Amatullah
09-11-2005, 01:42 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Far7an
Assalamu alaikum

Allah tells us in the quran, in Surah Baqarah ayah 190

Fight in the cause of Allah those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for Allah loveth not transgressors.
Asallama Alaikum brother I don't mean this as offensive or anything,but what are the boundaries the Mujahideen transgressed? :D
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minaz
09-11-2005, 01:43 PM
why are you categorizing the non-muslim citizens (Americans) to be guilty?
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S_87
09-11-2005, 01:44 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by minaz
why are you categorizing the non-muslim citizens (Americans) to be guilty?
:sl:
where has anyone done that?
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Far7an
09-11-2005, 01:46 PM
Assalamu alaikum

First of all, we do not call everyone with an ak47 and who shouts "Allahu Akbar" a mujaahid.

Secondly, when some children are standing with some American or British soldiers, and an Iraqi civilian decides to throw a grenade at them, killing the soldiers and children at the same time, you think that is jihaad?
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minaz
09-11-2005, 01:49 PM
where has anyone done that?
The following parts:

If that's the case then why are you people acting as if they aren't guilty?
I'm just wondering why muslims such as ourselves are sticking up for the kufaar?
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Ummu Amatullah
09-11-2005, 01:57 PM
Assalamu alaikum

First of all, we do not call everyone with an ak47 and who shouts "Allahu Akbar" a mujaahid.
Asallama Alaikum brother No,of course not I don't think that's a Mujahid.A person that's fighting in the way of Allah is a Mujahid and I beleive that's what our fellow brothers are doing.If not feel free to correct me

Secondly, when some children are standing with some American or British soldiers, and an Iraqi civilian decides to throw a grenade at them, killing the soldiers and children at the same time, you think that is jihaad?
Oh,do you mean using children as sheilds http://alsaher.com/boycott/images/boyshelter.jpg.
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Far7an
09-11-2005, 01:59 PM
Assalamu alaikum

I am aware that happens, but I assure you...

What I stated, also occurs...

if you do not believe me, ask the Imam of our local mosque whose cousin lost his life that way.
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Muezzin
09-11-2005, 02:02 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Shukri
I'm just wondering why muslims such as ourselves are sticking up for the kufaar?
I am certainly not sticking up for the kufaar. I detest murderers of any colour or creed.
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Ummu Amatullah
09-11-2005, 02:56 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Far7an
Assalamu alaikum

I am aware that happens, but I assure you...

What I stated, also occurs...

if you do not believe me, ask the Imam of our local mosque whose cousin lost his life that way.
Asallama Alaikum Oh,I'm sorry to hear that :-\ .May Allah reward him ameen. :)
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Ummu Amatullah
09-11-2005, 05:35 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Muezzin
I am certainly not sticking up for the kufaar. I detest murderers of any colour or creed.
Asallama Alaikum good to know I guess :confused:
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Far7an
09-12-2005, 08:45 PM
Assalamu alaikum

I know this is a bit late, but better late then never.

In regards to sticking up for kuffar, please read the following InshaAllah.

Question :
What is the ruling on defending the honour of the kuffaar? One day I slandered the honour of a kaafir and one of the Muslims responded and defended the honour of this kaafir. What is the ruling on defending their honour?.
Answer :
Praise be to Allaah. Firstly:

It is not the attitude of a Muslim to insult others, slander them and impugn their honour. The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “The believer is not given to cursing, slandering or obscene and foul speech.” Narrated by Ahmad, 3948; al-Tirmidhi, 1977; classed as saheeh by al-Albaani in Saheeh al-Tirmidhi.

The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) told people not to insult a Jew who deserved to be insulted, and he said that the reason for that is that Allaah does not like obscene talk.

Al-Bukhaari (6401) narrated from ‘Aa’ishah that the Jews came to the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) and said: “Al-saam ‘alayk (death be upon you). He said: “Wa ‘alaykum (and also upon you).” ‘Aa’ishah said: “Death be upon you, may Allaah send His curse and wrath upon you.” The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Take it easy, O ‘Aa’ishah! You should be kind and gentle, and beware of harshness and foul speech.” She said: “Did you not hear what they said?” He said: “Did you not hear what I said? I responded to them, and my du’aa’ concerning them was answered, but their du’aa’ concerning me was not answered.”

According to a report narrated by Muslim (2165), ‘Aa’ishah noticed what they said and insulted them, and the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Enough, O ‘Aa’ishah, for Allaah does not like foul speech and foul language.”

Al-Haafiz ibn Hajar (may Allaah have mercy on him) said:

It seems that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) did not want her tongue to become accustomed to foul speech so he denounced her for going to extremes in insulting them.

End quote from Fath al-Baari, 11/43.

Secondly:

One of the following two scenarios most apply in the case of a kaafir:

Either he is in a state of war against the Muslims, in which case he has no sanctity (i.e., he is not protected);
Or he has a peace treaty with the Muslims or is living under Muslim rule, in which case his life, honour and wealth are protected, and it is not permissible to transgress against him. The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) warned against transgressing against or wronging a kaafir whose rights are protected, as he said: “Whoever does wrong to a mu’aahad (a kaafir who has a peace treaty with the Muslims), or tries to put him down, or burdens him with more than he can bear, or takes something from him without his consent, I will be his opponent on the Day of Resurrection.” Narrated by Abu Dawood, 3052; classed as saheeh by al-Albaani in Saheeh Abi Dawood.

End quote from ‘Awn al-Ma’bood.

Al-San’aani said in Subul al-Salaam (2/663), concerning the words of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), “Trading insults with a Muslim is evildoing”:

It may be understood from the word “Muslim” here that it is permissible to insult a kaafir, but if he is a mu’aahad then it is an offence to him, and it is forbidden to offend him, so we should not follow what may be understood from this hadeeth in such a case. But if the kaafir is one who is at war with the Muslims, then it is permissible to insult him because he has no protection. End quote.

It says in al-Mawsoo’ah al-Fiqhiyyah (24/142):

For a Muslim to slander or insult a dhimmi (a non-Muslim living under Muslim rule) is a sin, and a Muslim is to be punished if he insults a kaafir. Al-Shaafa’i said: It makes no difference if he is alive or he is dead and is known to have died in kufr. Al-Buhooti, one of the Hanbalis, said: The punishment is because transgressing the limits set by Allaah. End quote.
It also says in al-Mawsoo’ah al-Fiqhiyyah (30/139):

Those who are living under a peace treaty or covenant with the Muslims are entitled to be safe with regard to their lives, their wealth and their honour. The ruler should protect them from everyone among the Muslims and others who wishes to harm them, and they should not be wronged so long as the covenant between them and the Muslims is in effect. End quote.
If the slander was an accusation of zina (adultery, fornication), then that makes matters even worse. The scholars (may Allaah have mercy on them) have stated that the one who does that is to be punished.

See al-Mughni. 9/48; al-Furoo’, 6/108; al-Insaaf, 10/203; Nasab al-Raayah, 4/174.

The point is that whoever defends the honour of a kaafir, by refuting what is said about him wrongfully, is doing no wrong, in fact he is doing the right thing. It is not the way of a Muslim to slander people’s honour. If he also tells him to stop slandering and insulting others, he is doing good and will be rewarded in sha Allaah.
And Allaah knows best.
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Muezzin
09-12-2005, 08:49 PM
:sl:

Jazakallah Khier for the clarification, Farhan :)
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minaz
09-12-2005, 08:52 PM
yes Jazakallah Farhan, it gave me the impression of "turn the other cheek", but don't let the enemy take the "michael" (in an Irish accent :p) out of you
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Ummu Amatullah
09-12-2005, 10:14 PM
Asallama Alaikum akhi Farhan jazak'Allah that was very beneficial :thumbs_up ,but brother who insulted or spoke obscenely about the kuffar?
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sonofadam
09-12-2005, 10:55 PM
Essay Regarding the Basic Rule of the Blood, Wealth and Honour of the Disbelievers
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Muezzin
09-13-2005, 08:26 AM
Could you just summarise that please? I'm not allowed to download stuff at work.

Granted, I'm not really allowed to go on the Net at work either but... :p
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Ummu Amatullah
09-13-2005, 11:20 AM
Jazak'Allah brother sonofadam :thumbs_up :thumbs_up
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sonofadam
09-13-2005, 08:04 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Shukri
Jazak'Allah brother sonofadam :thumbs_up :thumbs_up
And may Allah reward you to.
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