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nevesirth
09-17-2007, 12:00 AM
Question:
A while ago, Allaah guided me and I came back to Islam, praise be to Allaah. I let my beard grow, along with two other brothers, and this sunnah reached some of my family members too. At home we were able to create an Islamic atmosphere and all the sisters in the house put on Islamic dress. We adhered to the Qur’aan and Sunnah as much as possible. Then there was some trouble in our country, and the people turned against those who have beards and started to harass them. They think that everyone who has a beard wants to kill people and shed their blood, but we, as Muslims, have no desire whatsoever to kill people whom our Lord has forbidden us to kill. My father, my mother and my family have started urging me to shave my beard. My mother says that my father is angry with me, but I am afraid to do anything that goes against what the Messenger (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said, and I am afraid to commit a sin.

Answer:

Praise be to Allaah.

Firstly, may Allaah reward you with good for following the guidance of the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) and for calling your family to do likewise.

Secondly, shaving the beard is haraam, and letting it grow is obligatory, as you know. Obedience to the Creator takes precedence over obedience to any created being, even the closest of relatives. There can be no obedience to any created being if it involves disobedience to the Creator, and obedience to any other created being should only be with regard to what is good (ma’roof). What you describe of your father being angry and upset because you are letting your beard grow is only because he loves you and is afraid that what has happened to others may happen to you too. But what happened to others was, in most cases, because of provocation on their part, not just because they let their beards grow; it also happened to some of those who shave their beards. You must be steadfast in your adherence to the truth, and continue to let your beard grow in obedience to Allaah and in order to earn His pleasure, even if His creatures are angry. You must also avoid the sources of trouble, and put your trust in Allaah, hoping that He will provide a way out for you. Allaah says (interpretation of the meanings): “… And whosoever fears Allaah and keeps his duty to Him, He will make a way for him to get out (from every difficulty). And He will provide him from (sources) he never could imagine. And whosoever puts his trust in Allaah, then He will suffice him. Verily, Allaah will accomplish His purpose. Indeed, Allaah has set a measure for all things” [al-Talaaq 65:2-3] and, “…and whosoever fears Allaah and keeps his duty to Him, He will make his matter easy for him. That is the Command of Allaah, which He has sent down to you, and whosoever fears Allaah and keeps his duty to Him, He will remit his sins from him and will enlarge his reward.” [al-Talaaq 65:5].

We advise you to honour and respect your parents, and to explain to them with all good manners and politeness why you cannot do their bidding in this case.



Fataawa al-Lajnah al-Daa’imah, 5/151



http://www.islam-qa.com/index.php?re...eng&txt=beards
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Woodrow
09-17-2007, 01:53 AM
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snakelegs
09-17-2007, 02:03 AM
aren't both honoring your parents and saving a life fard?
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sevgi
09-17-2007, 02:10 AM
i didnt know that shaving the beard was haraam...or in other words, that growing it was obligatory....

i thought it was just sunnah...was this practice 'termed' haram by our prophet or via the quraan...coz if its just an interpretation, it shudnt be labelled 'haraam'...it should be makrooh...

i dnt get it..sori...im new to these strict ideologies. i think im too liberal for such practices...i dno...maybe its coz of my context...

that question is sort of overrated?isnt it common sense that islam is not a religion to make life harder for ourselves...i mean, if ur life and ur family are in danger coz of the prophets sunnah...the shave it off...our prophet loves u more than ur beard...

i dno...maybe i'll get attacked for this post coz i seem to not understand...but its ramadan and woodrow will just delete any attacking or derogatory posts anyway:)

we love u woodrow...:peace:
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Woodrow
09-17-2007, 02:28 AM
:w:

Perhaps some people can offer some verification as to if it is fard or Sunnah.

It is basically impossible for people of my race to grow a beard. we have very sparse facial hair, it will only grow a short length and then fall out on it's own. The best I can do for a beard is have a short variable colored one for a very short period of time. I do nave one growing now, I have not shaved regular in my entire life. Right now my beard makes me look like a shedding calico cat. It is about 1/2 inch long, multi colored and falling out in clumps. It may last like that for a week or 2 longer and then not grow back for years. I am a mixture of Mongolian, Chinese and Caucasian ancestry. My dominate nationality is Lietuva Lipkas (Lithuanian Tatar)

Oddly, my Mustache grows like crazy, But I understand a mustache is haraam so I do shave that now. I used you keep one, made me look like a pale Fu-Manchu
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sevgi
09-17-2007, 02:35 AM
wow.....

lithuaninan tatar..i have so many turkish tatar friends...

but back to the beard..see...i mean...islam is universal...u cant say it is obligatory to grow one when it is parctically imposiible for all people to grow one...

i dno...some guys cant due to their professions. these professions are important in islam...u cant make them quit their jobs in order to grow a beard..whats more important??? i dno...i think it definietly depends on context and is thsu merely sunnah...i dno...

like what would happen if the prime minister of turkey decided to grow one? coz its obligatory???

it just doesnt fit my idea of islam and i think the scholars who preech on these topics focus on their own context...
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Isambard
09-17-2007, 03:17 AM
Dunno why you would ahve to justify it to anyone.

Whenever someone critisizes my beard, I tell them their lack of one makes them look like a girl.

(Note: this wont work if the person critisizing the beard is female)
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Woodrow
09-17-2007, 03:34 AM
Originally Posted by Isambard
Dunno why you would ahve to justify it to anyone.

Whenever someone critisizes my beard, I tell them their lack of one makes them look like a girl.

(Note: this wont work if the person critisizing the beard is female)
I doubt if there is any need to find justification of growing a beard. The question here is is there justification for a Muslim not to grow a beard under some condition.
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NobleMuslimUK
09-17-2007, 05:27 AM
:sl:
If we look at history some sort of facial hair was a sign of manhood, a beard of some kind, for the muslim men its the one part of the muslim identity to have a beard just like for the muslim women its the hijab/niqab. During the Ottoman empire in the courts a mans testimony was not accepted if he didnt have a beard.
I know we dont understand the wisdom behind this command, that doesnt give us the excuse to criticise the ruling. The sufi scholars have made the view famous that having a beard is optional, but if we look carefully at the hadith concerning this sunnah its and order from the Prophet PBUH. Now you dont wanna be among those on the day of judgement seeking the intercession of the Prophet PBUH and get turned away because you didnt take this sunnah seriously.

Allah swt knows best.
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sevgi
09-17-2007, 05:41 AM
Originally Posted by NobleMuslimUK
:sl:
If we look at history some sort of facial hair was a sign of manhood, a beard of some kind, for the muslim men its the one part of the muslim identity to have a beard just like for the muslim women its the hijab/niqab. During the Ottoman empire in the courts a mans testimony was not accepted if he didnt have a beard.
I know we dont understand the wisdom behind this command, that doesnt give us the excuse to criticise the ruling. The sufi scholars have made the view famous that having a beard is optional, but if we look carefully at the hadith concerning this sunnah its and order from the Prophet PBUH. Now you dont wanna be among those on the day of judgement seeking the intercession of the Prophet PBUH and get turned away because you didnt take this sunnah seriously.

Allah swt knows best.
well..

this isnt a problem for me coz im a girl...but it still intruiges me...

maybe u could share such hadith bro? coz there are a lot of sceptics and a lot of commonsense against it...

is it really a ruling? if yes, then why do the sufi scholars which everyone respects so much interpret otherwise?

i think we have to be very careful in these feilds...terming something as haram when it is not is in all actality haram in itself...

peace.
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snakelegs
09-17-2007, 05:44 AM
going back to the OP
isn't it fard to obey your parents and to save a life? (personal safety issue)
if so, wouldn't this over-ride the sunnah of keeping a beard?
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NobleMuslimUK
09-17-2007, 05:47 AM
Originally Posted by snakelegs
going back to the OP
isn't it fard to obey your parents and to save a life? (personal safety issue)
if so, wouldn't this over-ride the sunnah of keeping a beard?
Obeying parents doesnt override obeying Allah and the Prophet PBUH.
I will bring more to the table about the beard issue later Inshallah.
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Abdul-Raouf
09-17-2007, 05:52 AM
keeping beard is sunnah or wajib? ---> im not answering that directly ....

But

Shaving ur beard leads to imitating a women.... which is Haraam

so u shouldn shave... >> which means a muslim man should grow beard...wateva the situation is..dont worry ... ALLAH will reward u in the hereafter...
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NoName55
09-17-2007, 05:55 AM
Originally Posted by NobleMuslimUK
Obeying parents doesnt override obeying Allah and the Prophet PBUH.
I will bring more to the table about the beard issue later Inshallah.
is consumption of pork haraam under any circumstance?

(do not become nasty like the original poster, and I will make it all clear by the end of thread)
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sevgi
09-17-2007, 05:56 AM
Originally Posted by Abdul-Raouf
keeping beard is sunnah or wajib? ---> im not answering that directly ....

But

Shaving ur beard leads to imitating a women.... which is Haraam

so u shouldn shave... >> which means a muslim man should grow beard...wateva the situation is..dont worry about persecution...
lol....how can shaving be imitating women...no matter how much u shave...its never gona look like a girls...

besides that...then...wearing that dress thingy that men wear..that white robe is also feminine...its a dress for Gods sake...

and im not provoking argument...im merely putting my thoughts forward...
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sevgi
09-17-2007, 06:02 AM
Originally Posted by snakelegs
going back to the OP
isn't it fard to obey your parents and to save a life? (personal safety issue)
if so, wouldn't this over-ride the sunnah of keeping a beard?
i agree...

as i stated earlier...what does Allah and our prophet care for more: your facial hair or ur life and what u will do for ur family?

the claim that it is haraam falls into an idea of faith...

if it is haraam..which i doubt with every inch of logic i have,...then it is upto the individual to set his grounds straight...

islam is not a religion of force, oppression, or to make life or living, or keeping ur life hard...

in islam we are even permitted to eat pork if we are on the verge of death...and pork is a no doubt haraam...

if it is sunnah...it is absolutely up to u...if falls into takwa...

its that simple...
these airmchair scholars need to open their minds..get out nd about...drop outta their masjids for a minute and see what average brothers in western contexts live thru....
brothers with a purpose...who need to work..who need to venture into 'nonislamic' realms are the true fighters...
sitting in ur masjid and growing a beard is no struggle...
thats why they attack great scholars like fethullah gulen...no beard...so narrow...
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Abdul-Raouf
09-17-2007, 06:10 AM
Originally Posted by sumeyye

Originally Posted by Abdul-Raouf
keeping beard is sunnah or wajib? ---> im not answering that directly ....

But

Shaving ur beard leads to imitating a women.... which is Haraam

so u shouldn shave... >> which means a muslim man should grow beard...wateva the situation is..dont worry ... ALLAH will reward u in the hereafter...
lol....how can shaving be imitating women...no matter how much u shave...its never gona look like a girls...

besides that...then...wearing that dress thingy that men wear..that white robe is also feminine...its a dress for Gods sake...

and im not provoking argument...im merely putting my thoughts forward...

Whateva ur thought might be...im not bothered...

i truely believe.. beard is special to man...
and shavin it leads imitatin women.....
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sevgi
09-17-2007, 06:19 AM
Originally Posted by Abdul-Raouf
Whateva ur thought might be...im not bothered...

i truely believe.. beard is special to man...
and shavin it leads imitatin women.....
thats fine...awesome...
and thats what i would argue as being takwa...
mahsallah...

but it is wrong to label such acts as haraam...or obligatory...

i believe it is purely sunnah...and thus contextual...

it falls under takwa then...

bro noname55...i know u hate me and probably want to slit my throat and throw me into the closest river...

but...i really think u have a good point...dnt give up...dnt get angry so quickly..yes some posts are 'opinionated'....but that is their choice...u shudnt give up...

we are here to get the truth out there....

peace.
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جوري
09-17-2007, 06:22 AM
what about all the bearded ladies out there?

this is a condition called 'hirsutism'-- happens in a number of pathologies, endocrine in origin... I just threw that in there to add more variables to the formula.. I have no answer either way.. and I am not looking to make a fatwa or bother anyone during the most holiest of months, but naturally curious if that changes the views of anyone on board?... naturally there are also men out there who canNOT grow beards, also due to various pathologies... neither with intent to imitate the opposite gender...

:w:
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guyabano
09-17-2007, 07:10 AM
This throuw up a good question. If a Muslima has a natural beard grow, means, too much Testosteron in her blood, must she let it grow too?

Btw, when Muslims with big beards must do Photos for ID Cards, must they shave or not?
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nevesirth
09-17-2007, 07:36 AM
Originally Posted by Woodrow
I tend to agree with the essence of what you are But, it makes me wonder as to how not having one could be Haraam , when it does not seem to be a ruling that can apply to all people.
i dont think not aving a beard is haraam, from wht i understand, its shaving of the beards thts haraam.
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Malaikah
09-17-2007, 07:38 AM
:sl:

Originally Posted by sumeyye
but back to the beard..see...i mean...islam is universal...u cant say it is obligatory to grow one when it is parctically imposiible for all people to grow one...
The idea is not that it is obligatory to grow the beard, but rather that it is forbidden to shave the beard. I think that answers your question inshaallah.

i dno...some guys cant due to their professions. these professions are important in islam...u cant make them quit their jobs in order to grow a beard..whats more important??? i dno...i think it definietly depends on context and is thsu merely sunnah...i dno...
The vast vast majority of scholars of Islam have said that it is haram to shave the beard. If the brother can get a job somewhere else without needing to shave, then why can't he just quit? If the case is such that it would be impossible to get any job at all with a beard, then obviously now we will have a problem for which one would need to seek a specific answer as to whether this person can shave his beard or not.

Like you said, you can't generalise these things, and need to get a specific fatwa for your own circumstances.

like what would happen if the prime minister of turkey decided to grow one? coz its obligatory???
See, now I think that is a great case were to shaving the beard would appear permissible (not saying it is permissible, I am in no position to do so). With the beard he might be kicked out, with out the beard he has the potential to do great good for the Muslim in Turkey.

Originally Posted by sumeyye
as i stated earlier...what does Allah and our prophet care for more: your facial hair or ur life and what u will do for ur family?
Alternatively, what matters more for you: obeying Allah or obeying your parents. Obeying Allah comes first. We can't just mould Islam to suite our needs. Islam teaches us to obey our paretns only as long as they do not tell us to do something that Allah Himself has made haram.

the claim that it is haraam falls into an idea of faith...
It is not faith at all. It is based on evidence from the Quran and sunnah and what the scholars have said.

islam is not a religion of force, oppression, or to make life or living, or keeping ur life hard...
What is so forceful about beard being compulsory?!

Just getting a few odd stares here and there or a little prejudice from people for having a beard is no where near enough reason for a person to do something haram. As for losing a job, okay it is regrettable, but if he can find another job then why should he sin and shave?

in islam we are even permitted to eat pork if we are on the verge of death...and pork is a no doubt haraam...
Correct, but I do not see anyone putting a gun to the heads of men with beards.

these airmchair scholars need to open their minds..get out nd about...drop outta their masjids for a minute and see what average brothers in western contexts live thru....
Sister, just because you disagree, doesn't mean you should slander our scholars now and call them armchair scholars. I know heaps of brothers living in the west who have beards, and what they go through is nothing compared to what Muslim women go through for wearing hijab! Would you suggest that Muslim women should now stop wearing hijab because they live in the west?

brothers with a purpose...who need to work..who need to venture into 'nonislamic' realms are the true fighters...
sitting in ur masjid and growing a beard is no struggle...
thats why they attack great scholars like fethullah gulen...no beard...so narrow...
You are implying that anyone who has a beard only sits around at the mosque all day! The 'true fighters' are the brothers who work with a beard! The true fighters are the Muslim who love their religion more than they love the luxuries of this life. They understand that success if through Islam, and they don't sin for minor reasons. They take the best of both worlds- they make a living, and at the same time do it the halal way without compromising their religion.

What is the struggle in working without a beard? By shaving you have removed a major part of that struggle. :?
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Malaikah
09-17-2007, 07:39 AM
Originally Posted by snakelegs
going back to the OP
isn't it fard to obey your parents and to save a life? (personal safety issue)
if so, wouldn't this over-ride the sunnah of keeping a beard?
If it actually is sunnah (meaning not compulsory) then yes. But it is compulsory to let the beard grow and not shave. The general rulings are that you must obey your parents in everything expect if they ask you to do something forbidden.

As for saving a life, the general ruling here is that you can sinning becomes permissible in life/death situations. For example, if you starving to death and there is nothing to eat other than pig, then in that case it is permissible for you to eat only as much pig as you need to survive. And because the pig is permissible to eat in that case, then it actually becomes compulsory for you to eat it, because if you don't, you will die.

This throuw up a good question. If a Muslima has a natural beard grow, means, too much Testosteron in her blood, must she let it grow too?
No, it only applies to men. Muslim women are allowed to remove any facial hair except for their eyebrows.
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snakelegs
09-17-2007, 07:47 AM
Originally Posted by Malaikah
If it actually is sunnah (meaning not compulsory) then yes. But it is compulsory to let the beard grow and not shave. The general rulings are that you must obey your parents in everything expect if they ask you to do something forbidden.

As for saving a life, the general ruling here is that you can sinning becomes permissible in life/death situations. For example, if you starving to death and there is nothing to eat other than pig, then in that case it is permissible for you to eat only as much pig as you need to survive. And because the pig is permissible to eat in that case, then it actually becomes compulsory for you to eat it, because if you don't, you will die.

so are you saying that it is fard (not sunnah) to have a beard?
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Malaikah
09-17-2007, 08:00 AM
Originally Posted by PurestAmbrosia
naturally there are also men out there who canNOT grow beards, also due to various pathologies... neither with intent to imitate the opposite gender...
No, it doesn't change anything, because the prohibition is on shaving. As long as that guy doesn't shave the few hairs he has, he should be fine inshaallah.

I notice this a point raised by many Muslims on this forum. I advice you not to take such critical approaches to understand fiqh rulings, because you might be mocking or disagreeing with something that is actually a part of Islam, while you are ignorant of it.
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Malaikah
09-17-2007, 08:01 AM
Originally Posted by snakelegs
so are you saying that it is fard (not sunnah) to have a beard?
According to the vast majority of scholars of Islam, yes it is compulsory to leave the beard as it is (I do not know if it is fard or wajib- but either way both translate into English as meaning obligatory).

A minority of scholars have said that it is sunnah, not compulsory.
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snakelegs
09-17-2007, 08:03 AM
thanks, malaikah. :sunny:
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ahsan28
09-17-2007, 08:07 AM
Originally Posted by snakelegs
so are you saying that it is fard (not sunnah) to have a beard?
Hi snakelegs, no its not.
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Malaikah
09-17-2007, 08:09 AM
Originally Posted by NoName55
say in case of a gas attack, the man who cant seal it out, is Allah going to send him aid? in what form? have you ever been in a situation like that?

some idiot is going to come along and say Gas is illegal or worse that man is a shaheed.

what good did that man do to serve islam and his team by failing to protect himself. by being brave or willing to die does not mean be stupid throw you life away risk you team, bring defeat upon you people.
Are you talking about the case of man going along in his ordinary day to day life? Why would be fear a gas attack?

Or are you talking about the case of man who has an occupation which would require him to wear a gas mask and that mask would not work if he had a beard?

If you mean that latter then I think it is worth asking a shaykh scholar about it and whether is comes under the case of need, in which case the need overrides the ruling.

If you mean the first case, I don't see how someone can justify shaving for fear of a gas attack, especially since there is an almost zero % chance of that happening. But I think you mean the second case, in which case you mention a fair point, however the ruling would apply to him only, not to some guy working at the local supermarket (for example).
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NoName55
09-17-2007, 08:13 AM
read the thread^^^ and posts carefully before reply and you will see it is a Muslim soldier

and if you read properly Sr. Ambrosia post is clearly about an afflicted lady

and furthermore original post implies that it is haram under any circumstances whether it is for escaping persecution or whatever.
further posts by other Google scholars say that one must keep it even at pain of death


Allah does not pull the knowledge abruptly from the hearts of people, but he takes away the knowledge by taking [the lives of] the true scholars. When no `ulamaa are left, people will take ignorant persons for leaders. Those will give them fatwa without knowledge. By doing this, they will stray and lead others astray as well.

all the `ulamaa of Salaf, including the Four Imams, agreed that shaving the beard is haram, all I am arguing for is there are excption in cases of dire need (you cant get any dire than dying)
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nevesirth
09-17-2007, 08:14 AM
its clear here that keeping a beard is fard, not having a beard is not haram because some people cant grow one, what will constitute haram would be shaving the beards just for convinience
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ahsan28
09-17-2007, 08:23 AM
One should be able to differentiate between fard and sunnah. Plz don't mix it. Otherwise few will get up and say that white long skirt being worn by Arabs as their traditional dress is also compulsory and not wearing that dress is also haram. Plz have mercy on us :cry:
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NoName55
09-17-2007, 08:23 AM
Allah does not pull the knowledge abruptly from the hearts of people, but he takes away the knowledge by taking [the lives of] the `ulamaa (scholars). When no `ulamaa are left, people will take ignorant persons for leaders. Those will give them fatwa without knowledge. By doing this, they will stray and lead others astray as well.
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Abdul-Raouf
09-17-2007, 08:23 AM
Originally Posted by nevesirth
i dont think not aving a beard is haraam, from wht i understand, its shaving of the beards thts haraam.

Yup thats what im saying in my posts.........
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Malaikah
09-17-2007, 08:30 AM
Originally Posted by ahsan28
One should be able to differentiate between fard and sunnah. Plz don't mix it. Otherwise few will get up and say that white long skirt being worn by Arabs as their traditional dress is also compulsory and not wearing that dress is also haram. Plz have mercy on us :cry:
:sl:

I am not confusing anything. I know exactly what I am saying. The majority of scholars of Islam said that beard is obligatory.
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snakelegs
09-17-2007, 08:31 AM
Originally Posted by ahsan28
Hi snakelegs, no its not.
:giggling: actually, this is what i thought to begin with!

One should be able to differentiate between fard and sunnah. Plz don't mix it. Otherwise few will get up and say that white long skirt being worn by Arabs as their traditional dress is also compulsory and not wearing that dress is also haram. Plz have mercy on us
:thumbs_up

i think i'll bow out of this thread now, before i get dizzy. :hiding:
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Abdul-Raouf
09-17-2007, 08:31 AM
Originally Posted by PurestAmbrosia
what about all the bearded ladies out there?

this is a condition called 'hirsutism'-- happens in a number of pathologies, endocrine in origin... I just threw that in there to add more variables to the formula.. I have no answer either way.. and I am not looking to make a fatwa or bother anyone during the most holiest of months, but naturally curious if that changes the views of anyone on board?... naturally there are also men out there who canNOT grow beards, also due to various pathologies... neither with intent to imitate the opposite gender...

:w:
Sister here in this thread..we are talkin about men who can grow beard(mean for whom beard is growin).......and about him shaving his growing beard... and my posts are related to those categories of men....
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NoName55
09-17-2007, 08:33 AM
all the `ulamaa of Salaf, including the Four Imams, agreed that shaving the beard is haram (but not at pain of death or torture/persecution)
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nocturne
09-17-2007, 08:35 AM
I think the chinese have a hard time growing beard.

Anyway, back to the topic, i am not sure in which country its dangerous to keep beard.

But here in my country, i am required to do national service whereby we are not to have beard, even a little as shown in the above picture.
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ahsan28
09-17-2007, 08:37 AM
Originally Posted by Malaikah
:sl:

I am not confusing anything. I know exactly what I am saying. The majority of scholars of Islam said that beard is obligatory.
Sis, my post wasn't directed at your post. I was giving my general comments. Millions of Muslims don't keep beards and we must have consideration for them as well. Majority of the scholars still doesn't constitute 100%.
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Malaikah
09-17-2007, 08:38 AM
Originally Posted by NoName55
read the thread^^^ and posts carefully before reply and you will see it is a Muslim soldier

and if you read properly Sr. Ambrosia post is clearly about an afflicted lady
Actually her post said nothing about the picture being a woman. It implies it is a man.

further posts by other Google scholars say that one must keep it even at pain of death
Do you realise that any good that comes from your posts is lost when you insult other members by calling them google scholars?

Anyway, the first post did not imply that. We don't even know what kind of persecution the person was facing. there is nothing to indicate it was death. The reply implied that even people who shaved were attacked so shaving his beard isn't going to help, and that the people who were attacked also provoked the attack somehow:

"But what happened to others was, in most cases, because of provocation on their part, not just because they let their beards grow; it also happened to some of those who shave their beards."

all the `ulamaa of Salaf, including the Four Imams, agreed that shaving the beard is haram, all I am arguing for is there are excption in cases of dire need (you cant det any dire than dying)
Alhamdulilah, then we are in agreement.
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NoName55
09-17-2007, 08:41 AM
Originally Posted by nocturne
I think the chinese have a hard time growing beard.

Anyway, back to the topic, i am not sure in which country its dangerous to keep beard.

But here in my country, i am required to do national service whereby we are not to have beard, even a little as shown in the above picture.
:sl:

If you were allowed to keep the beard can you imagine state of your lungs During NBC training?
Actually her post said nothing about the picture being a woman. It implies it is a man.
i must disagree, line above the picture + name/description of disease is 2 major clues
Reply

ABWAN
09-17-2007, 09:06 AM
Originally Posted by ahsan28
Sis, my post wasn't directed at your post. I was giving my general comments. Millions of Muslims don't keep beards and we must have consideration for them as well. Majority of the scholars still doesn't constitute 100%.
As much as I hate to get into this debate, I cant avoid posting my reply to this comment.

Ahsan, I guess your point is that since the majority of muslims choose to not follow something, there should be some leniency. I have to disagree with your conclusion. Although I dont have statistics to backup, more than 50% of the muslim population dont even pray the 5 compulsory prayers. Does it mean that the scholars should let these people skip the prayers? I guess your counter argument would be that while Salat is compulsory, having beard is not. According to the 4 major madhaibs, it is either unlawful or offensive to shave the beard. It also shows the level of taqwa of each individual. Besides, there is always an insistence in islam to be different from the followers of other faith.

As for the issue of women have hair, Imam Nawawi mentioned that it is not unlawful for a woman to shave her beard (if she has excessive hair). it is rather commendable (mustahabb) for her to do so, after seeking the permission of her husband.

finally I request all you muslim folks to not waste your time on such conversation. Such conversations can wait until ramadhan is over. Try to use every second of this month as efficiently as possible to seek more rewards!
Reply

Abdul-Raouf
09-17-2007, 09:27 AM
bro NoName....sorry for making you angry ....

I apologise for my load of rubbbish statement(your way)....

May ALLAH forgive me for my wrong statements.....

Originally Posted by NoName55
all the `ulamaa of Salaf, including the Four Imams, agreed that shaving the beard is haram, all I am arguing for is there are excption in cases of dire need (you cant get any dire than dying)

^^^ Can u explain more about committin sin incase of savin ones own life

Are all haraam actions are exempted in case of dyin ....?

Jazakallah khair.... for your valuable efforts.
Reply

جوري
09-17-2007, 09:49 AM
Originally Posted by Malaikah
Actually her post said nothing about the picture being a woman. It implies it is a man.
.
I don't want to interrupt a good thing.. and again, I am not looking for a debate since growing/shaving a beard is entirely outside my area of expertise (religiously speaking) Hypertrichosis and hirsutism are the excessive growth of hair on the female body, thus it is easily understood whether or not her eyes or rest of face are shown that it is in fact a female!.. any google search can confirm that just by typing either terms in search engine.. I am not cutting and pasting an image for fun by proxy... but to establish that such cases exist in either gender... Men can have klinefelter's, women can have PCO and this can actually be very common even without established endocrine or chromosomal anomalies.. furthermore a man can have a perfectly nice beard and then suffer folliculitis.. and then not only will he have to shave his beard to clear out the infection, but may never grow hair again in those areas afflicted ... or hair can grow in but patchy.. why do I write all this? simple.. if you can find at least one exception to the rule and not be overly harsh or critical, then you can see where another exception might exist?.. Again, I am neither for nor against.. I just want to establish that not everything is clear black or white.. and there are definite gray areas...

Now I hope we can all just be kind to one another in Ramadan and outside of it insha'Allah.. I may be growing blind imsad , but I don't need big red writing, or to be spoken of in absentia for a point to be made.. everyone has an opinion.. I think everyone is simply making a case for why they believe something is/isn't 100% etched in stone.. ultimately Allah knows best.. we should make our best effort with what we know and make our intentions clear to Allah SWT
Ramadan kareem
:w:
Reply

Malaikah
09-17-2007, 09:55 AM
:sl:

Oh, sorry purest, I totally thought it was a man! I missed the line above the picture.

Anyway I just don't understand what women having facial hair has to do with the topic? We are talking about men!

I am sure we can all also agree that if there is a medical need for a man to shave his beard (because there is a nest of something or the other growing in it or whatever) then it is a different case than just shaving for no reason, or shaving only for the fear of some verbal abuse, or whatever.
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جوري
09-17-2007, 10:01 AM
Originally Posted by Malaikah
:sl:

Oh, sorry purest, I totally thought it was a man! I missed the line above the picture.

Anyway I just don't understand what women having facial hair has to do with the topic? We are talking about men!
:sl:
I posted it since the brother implied that not growing a beard is to be imitating of women.. I wanted to establish that exceptions to the rule exist, and such shouldn't be grounds for adverse criticism!
:w:

Addendum as per yours.. indeed you can find 'medical' exceptions, thus I can readily conclude, that if one exists under one harsh circumstance. it can exist in another harsh circumstance?-- the whole point is really not to be judgmental where one is not clear on all aspects.. surely somethings can fall under 'throwing oneself in tahloka'-- as far as I am concerned if we don't have a scholar understanding the individual case, then we are all just passing random opinions, and stimulating friction amongst ourselves, when we should be growing close together in the holy month of Ramadan? Allah knows best... forgive me if I upset any of you...
:w:
Reply

Abdul-Raouf
09-17-2007, 10:41 AM
This wat i said before...

Originally Posted by Abdul-Raouf
Sister here in this thread..we are talkin about men who can grow beard(mean for whom beard is growin).......and about him shaving his growing beard... and my posts are related to those categories of men....

Originally Posted by PurestAmbrosia
I posted it since the brother implied that not growing a beard is to be imitating of women.... I wanted to establish that exceptions to the rule exist, and such shouldn't be grounds for adverse criticism!
Not growing a beard is to be imitating of women
>>> I have told this only in context of guys who are capable of growing ....

If the beard doesnt grow (medically).... they wont be considered as commitin sin...

We are not talkin about the exceptional cases in this thread...
Reply

Abdul-Raouf
09-17-2007, 10:49 AM
Originally Posted by PurestAmbrosia
we are all just passing random opinions, and stimulating friction amongst ourselves, when we should be growing close together in the holy month of Ramadan? Allah knows best... forgive me if I upset any of you...

^^ Sorry ALL If Im responsible for that ^^







Reply

Woodrow
09-17-2007, 11:20 AM
I think that there are some areas we are all in agreement.

1. It is desired for a man to grow a beared

2. It is usually haraam to shave a beard.

3. Conditions exist where a man can not grow a beard

4. Our intent should be to have a beard

5. We can not judge the reason why a person would find it necessary to shave his beard even if his desire is to grow a beard

6. None of us are scholars.

7. There is no point in any of us getting angry simply because none of us is capable of judging the actions of any of our Brothers


With that said let us remember what Month this is and remember, there is no purpose for us to become angry or cause our Brothers and Sisters to become angry.

If we can not reply out of love, let us remain quiet.

Reply

sevgi
09-17-2007, 11:21 AM
Originally Posted by Abdul-Raouf

^^ Sorry ALL If Im responsible for that ^^







me tooooooooo!!!!
Reply

Umu 'Isa
09-17-2007, 12:09 PM
:salamext:
Subhan Allaah... I decided on closing the thread. This got too ridiculous, people talking from their own opinions. This isn't a matter for us to be wasting our time talking about, rather it comes down to the hadeeth of the Prophet (saws) and the scholars who are educated in these matters to discuss. End of story.
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