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ABWAN
09-17-2007, 09:12 AM
Assalamu alaykum,
Not sure if this was already posted. Thought I would share this video of a christian choosing to wearing hijab and her reasoning.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L0SsYD2yRsk
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beespreeteam
09-17-2007, 10:56 AM
:o will watch!
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rozeena
09-17-2007, 03:12 PM
she luks reali pretty wid da hijab, aww
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Woodrow
09-17-2007, 03:40 PM
The original Christian women and Jewish women do wear the Hijab or variations of it. If not always.

For most Jews and Christians it is mandatory for worship.

But, as people change, many now find reasons to say it is not required.

Some Examples:







there is no logical reason for people to be opposed to Muslimahs wearing Hijabs. A Hijab is much more beautiful than anything a hair stylist can do.
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rozeena
09-17-2007, 03:45 PM
bro woodrow, dat is soooooooo true.

i fink any gal luks beta wid a hijab den widout it. n im nt jus sayin it.its actuali true. if u luk at a gal widout it n den compare her 2 hw she luks wid it ders a huge diference. in a gud way,
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guyabano
09-17-2007, 03:57 PM
but some of the Hijabs are transparent? Would that be allowed?
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bewildred
09-17-2007, 04:00 PM
Hello y'all,

Hijab is not just a piece of material. Hijab is an attitude. What the use of being covered from head to toes and walk around in a provocative way? Hijab should be used to sitr the woman's assets. Nobody has the right to be opposed to the muslimah's wearing hijab.

Bewildred
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rozeena
09-17-2007, 04:01 PM
Originally Posted by guyabano
but some of the Hijabs are transparent? Would that be allowed?
no, i dont think it is as u can still see all da hair. n da whole point of wearin it is 2 cover da hair, bt i knw many pakistani ladies who wear transparent scarves roughly on der heads (old ladies) so dnt knw if dts a culiturel fing or wt!
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Soulja Girl
09-17-2007, 04:02 PM
Originally Posted by rozeena
i fink any gal luks beta wid a hijab den widout it. n im nt jus sayin it.its actuali true. if u luk at a gal widout it n den compare her 2 hw she luks wid it ders a huge diference. in a gud way,
Ya I agree wit ya! A gurl in Hijab looks much more better than a Gurl without Hijab...Shows her modesty...:)

Some of the Hijabs are transparent
If they're transparent whats the use of wearing it? :p

:w:
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Woodrow
09-17-2007, 04:03 PM
Originally Posted by guyabano
but some of the Hijabs are transparent? Would that be allowed?
Most of us would say no. However, I think any hijab is better than no Hijab.

the point is that all three of the Abrahamic faiths either require women to wear a head covering or did so in the past. The Flimsy lace ones seem to be more of a reminder of a lost heritage, rather than a full practice of belief.
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rozeena
09-17-2007, 04:05 PM
Originally Posted by Crazy_Lady
Ya I agree wit ya! A gurl in Hijab looks much more better than a Gurl without Hijab...Shows her modesty...:)



If they're transparent whats the use of wearing it? :p

:w:
yeh, exactly lol. but have u seen old ladies wear em.( Pakistani ones, my gran wears it soo dnt knw wt 2 say) but dey have it matchin wid der evri suit lol. Trendy old budya hey! lol
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Anwarica
09-17-2007, 04:50 PM
Originally Posted by Crazy_Lady
If they're transparent whats the use of wearing it? :p
Exactly!
When people cover something, they don't use a transparent material :)
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bewildred
09-17-2007, 04:57 PM
Ya I agree wit ya! A gurl in Hijab looks much more better than a Gurl without Hijab...Shows her modesty...
The new trend of hijabs we sometimes see nowadays is unfortunately not about modesty. Very often, privileged social status is displayed through hijab.

Bewildred
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Isambard
09-17-2007, 05:18 PM
The thinking behind the christian scarf comes from originally from the Pauline letters. It was meant only for mass because he believed evil angels would enter into womens' head during service. How a piece a cloth protects a woman from possession I dont know...

Its further expanded on in the Pastoral Epsitles where they must be covered and remain silent. etc.

Since the feminist movement, the christian scarf has been all but abolished in the West because the meaning behind is something along the lines of women being mentally inferior (therefore evil angels could enter them).

Its very different from the Islamic Hijab.

I am curious, if hair is seen as sexual, why only women are required to wear hijabs?
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Umm Yoosuf
09-17-2007, 05:40 PM
Hi

I am curious, if hair is seen as sexual, why only women are required to wear hijabs?
Who said hair was seen sexual?

Firstly understand that the Hijab is a commandment from God. Hijab is a form of worship like any other acts of worship in Islaam such as prayer. Hijab is a spiritual connection between a Muslimah and her Lord in that her main goal is to obey her Lord, to seek a highly expensive reward in this Life and the next. But only a true believer would understand that, an individual that submits to Allah in totally, no buts nor doubts. If you wanted to look at the social benefits that is another matter.

In Islaam everyone has its role, there is no-one Allah has left hanging on the side. The woman is commanded to dress in a certain way that is suitable to her nature, likewise is the same for that man, he commanded to dress a certain way that is suitable to his nature. In the sight of Allah men and women are equal.
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Isambard
09-17-2007, 06:01 PM
Originally Posted by Al-Mu'minah
Hi



Who said hair was seen sexual?

Firstly understand that the Hijab is a commandment from God. Hijab is a form of worship like any other acts of worship in Islaam such as prayer. Hijab is a spiritual connection between a Muslimah and her Lord in that her main goal is to obey her Lord, to seek a highly expensive reward in this Life and the next. But only a true believer would understand that, an individual that submits to Allah in totally, no buts nor doubts. If you wanted to look at the social benefits that is another matter.

In Islaam everyone has its role, there is no-one Allah has left hanging on the side. The woman is commanded to dress in a certain way that is suitable to her nature, likewise is the same for that man, he commanded to dress a certain way that is suitable to his nature. In the sight of Allah men and women are equal.
Im usually told the hijab is for modesty reasons and in the same league as covering of breasts. If so, then wouldnt it suggest exposure of hair is sexual?
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wilberhum
09-17-2007, 06:24 PM
Originally Posted by Isambard
Im usually told the hijab is for modesty reasons and in the same league as covering of breasts. If so, then wouldnt it suggest exposure of hair is sexual?
May I quote?
Originally Posted by aamirsaab
:sl:
.................................................. ...........
Disclaimer; this is not for the younger viewers (aged below 13) since it deals with mature subjects, that quite frankly will bore the living daylights out of you or get you confused.


Chapter 1: The Hijab/Niqaab/Covering - modesty

Females generally have several attributes/qualities that are deemed attractive (men also do and I will cover this later). These include; *hair, eyes, nose, mouth/teeth*, breasts, overall body figure. [The attributes surrounded by * * are the same for male.
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Umm Yoosuf
09-17-2007, 06:36 PM
Originally Posted by Isambard
Im usually told the hijab is for modesty reasons and in the same league as covering of breasts. If so, then wouldnt it suggest exposure of hair is sexual?
The whole body of the woman is 'Awrah - there is difference of opinion regarding the face and the hands. So whats your point regarding the hair? In the same way the man has to cover his entire body except for his hands, face, and the area below the knees, the woman has to cover the whole body except for the face and the hands.

The Hijab is merely a commandment from God, obedience to God; it’s a form of worship. So it a MUST that the woman covers her hair from strange men because Allah ordered her to.
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al Amaanah
09-17-2007, 06:57 PM
:wasalamex

May Allah guide her to Islaam.
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'Abd-al Latif
09-17-2007, 07:31 PM
Originally Posted by Isambard
Im usually told the hijab is for modesty reasons and in the same league as covering of breasts. If so, then wouldnt it suggest exposure of hair is sexual?
Its only woman who are told to wear the hijab because in general men find woman attractive by their visual appearence more then woman do men. And the most attractive part of a woman is her face, which involves her hair. Who would you find more attractive, a woman whose hair looks like a mess compared to a woman whose hair has been brushed and styled to look good?

The prettier the woman the more attractive she will be and a woman who leaves little to the imagination is usually treated like dirt, so its why Allah says in the quran;

“O Prophet! Tell your wives and your daughters and the women of the believers to draw their cloaks (veils) all over their bodies (i.e. screen themselves completely except the eyes or one eye to see the way). That will be better, that they should be known (as free respectable women) so as not to be annoyed. And Allaah is Ever Oft‑Forgiving, Most Merciful”

[al-Ahzaab 33:59]
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wilberhum
09-17-2007, 07:39 PM
a woman who leaves little to the imagination is usually treated like dirt,
Now that's an interesting remark.
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bewildred
09-17-2007, 07:48 PM
.......and covering the body of the woman gives a lot of work to imagination. Sometimes, it's not about women, it's about perverted minds who still consider the female junto as a prey.

Bewildred
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'Abd-al Latif
09-17-2007, 09:06 PM
Originally Posted by wilberhum
Now that's an interesting remark.
I didn't mean that in an offencive way, but at the same time its not too far from the truth.

.......and covering the body of the woman gives a lot of work to imagination. Sometimes, it's not about women, it's about perverted minds who still consider the female junto as a prey.
and how often would u find a pervert feeling attracted to a woman he doesn't see? its why muslim woman are told to cover themselves, hence the verse from the quran;

“O Prophet! Tell your wives and your daughters and the women of the believers to draw their cloaks (veils) all over their bodies (i.e. screen themselves completely except the eyes or one eye to see the way). That will be better, that they should be known (as free respectable women) so as not to be annoyed. And Allaah is Ever Oft‑Forgiving, Most Merciful”

[al-Ahzaab 33:59]
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bewildred
09-17-2007, 09:21 PM
and how often would u find a pervert feeling attracted to a woman he doesn't see? its why muslim woman are told to cover themselves, hence the verse from the quran;
Dearest brother in soul,

I was waiting for my hubby to pick me up from work when a lady veiled from head to toes passed me by. She was walking slowly and the smallest lil flesh that showed up attracted the guys attention. I wondered if one has to care about the males reactions or our own conception of Hijab.

Bewildred
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'Abd-al Latif
09-17-2007, 09:30 PM
Originally Posted by bewildred
Dearest brother in soul,

I was waiting for my hubby to pick me up from work when a lady veiled from head to toes passed me by. She was walking slowly and the smallest lil flesh that showed up attracted the guys attention. I wondered if one has to care about the males reactions or our own conception of Hijab.

Bewildred
so ur saying...he felt attracted to almost nothing? because what my implication was that if u dont see the face u wont be attracted.

Obviously your concept of offencive and mine are different.

But at the same time it is as far from the truth as you can get where I live.

But we don't think women should be covered by tents either.
clearly, you haven't seen the amount of woman who are desired because of their bodies compared with the amount of woman who actually use their brains.

let me give u an example, i remember a long time ago in this documentary they were talking about some who stripped completely naked in order to attract people to her friends (or someone, i cant remember exctally) business, and some 15-20 years on she is still remembered for taking her clothes off in public, where is the dignity?

name me one woman today who is uniquely known around the world for what she has achieved excluding her figure? while on the other hand a muslim woman has everything to show to the world EXCEPT her figure to strange men.
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wilberhum
09-17-2007, 09:37 PM
Originally Posted by nomadicsoul
clearly, you haven't seen the amount of woman who are desired because of their bodies compared with the amount of woman who actually use their brains.
I live in the US. I'm told the women here run around half nude. :giggling:

When men got an ocasional glimps at an ankle, they went wild.

Now that we have seen thousands and thousands of knees, it is no big deal. :hmm:
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bewildred
09-17-2007, 09:40 PM
I only said that the work of mind is more active than that of the eyes.

I'm a muslim mom who wears the hijab since 1993. I was 19. That year I got all kinds of nasty comments. I do believe that sutra is elementary for a woman. The latter should be humble in her clothing and her way of walking.

My point is that sometimes some men would harass women even if these ones do nothing to deserve such behavior. Pfewwwww, I hope I made my idea clearer.

Bewildred
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'Abd-al Latif
09-17-2007, 09:41 PM
I live in the US. I'm told the women here run around half nude.

When men got an ocasional glimps at an ankle, they went wild.

Now that we have seen thousands and thousands of knees, it is no big deal.
yeah...the muslim woman is too important to be on display like some cheap product.
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'Abd-al Latif
09-17-2007, 09:45 PM
Originally Posted by bewildred
I only said that the work of mind is more active than that of the eyes.

I'm a muslim mom who wears the hijab since 1993. I was 19. That year I got all kinds of nasty comments. I do believe that sutra is elementary for a woman. The latter should be humble in her clothing and her way of walking.

My point is that sometimes some men would harass women even if these ones do nothing to deserve such behavior. Pfewwwww, I hope I made my idea clearer.

Bewildred
May Allah protect you sister, your reasons are different to what i was implying. but anyhow a muslims final resting place isn't this world because its just like a train stop, we r here today and inshAllah tomorrow we return home to jannah.
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'Abd-al Latif
09-17-2007, 09:51 PM
Originally Posted by wilberhum
I now that's why some are covered in tents and locked up behind blackend windows.

Now is that show how important they are?

No, it shows they are nothing more that chattel.
tents? locked up? blackend windows? where r u getting this from? seems to me like ur judgeing a book (islam) by its cover. becuse its the woman are not forced to wear hijab, they chose to wear it.

note they key words; not forced.
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ahsan28
09-17-2007, 09:54 PM
Originally Posted by wilberhum
But at the same time it is as far from the truth as you can get where I live.

But we don't think women should be covered by tents either. :hmm:

Its because honourable behaviour is not encouraged in society. Women are treated by what they wear. A woman dressed modestly is treated differently, compared to a woman dressed in revealing clothes.

So what effect does image have in society? Does it matter what we wear and how we look? What's wrong if we wear revealing clothes?

When we look at Western society, we see how important image is. We are obsessed with how we look, and what image we portray. This may seem harmless but I honestly believe this leads to a selfish society, where we are only concerned with ourselves. We spend money to look good, to attract the right people. We lose our modesty.

The Quran commands the men to lower their gaze and commands the women to cover themselves. Now you will say 'Well if the men lower their gaze then it shouldn't matter what the women wear. Men have stronger urges compared to women. If a pious man sees something pretty he may be strong enough to lower his gaze once. But what if whenever he turns a corner he sees something desirable, or everywhere he looks he sees revealing beauty? How can this man keep his lusts in check? And even if the pious man manages to lower his gaze, what about the man with less willpower? He will surely indulge in the beauty he sees, and here the temptations start and lead to undesirable acts. Therefore a woman must guard her modesty by covering herself completely, which you may consider covering by the tents :D

Remember rapists and molestors don't just chase mini skirts, they prey on vulnerable women as well :cry:
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bewildred
09-17-2007, 10:01 PM
I just want to send my greatest admiration to the ladies wh chose to wear "TENTS". Can you imagine the amount of courage it can take one to make such a decision? I mean, in a society that's so very superficial. Some pseudo diktats think they have the right to impose the corrupt occidental aesthetic kanons on us?

These ladies are so brave to follow their religion and back face the fashion current. Hats off to you ladies and may you get the respect that you deserve.

Bewildred
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'Abd-al Latif
09-17-2007, 10:06 PM
Originally Posted by wilberhum
I now that's why some are covered in tents and locked up behind blackend windows.

Now is that show how important they are?

No, it shows they are nothing more that chattel.
since u live in the US u must be aware of the 'thug' lifestyle people live over there. would u not be in comfort while u r at work to know that ur wife is covered and protects her beauty only to reveal herself to ur eyes?
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wilberhum
09-17-2007, 10:06 PM
Originally Posted by nomadicsoul
tents? locked up? blackend windows? where r u getting this from? seems to me like ur judgeing a book (islam) by its cover.

QUESTION TO ALL THE MUSLIM SISTERS ON THIS FORUM

do u agree with the words of wilberhum? (this is just so wilberhum doesn't think im making this all up, so he can hear the views of the sisters himself.)
Standard Taliban treatment and I never said Islam. :skeleton:
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'Abd-al Latif
09-17-2007, 10:15 PM
Originally Posted by wilberhum
Standard Taliban treatment and I never said Islam. :skeleton:
taliban?

i only did that cuz its late here in UK im not really in the mood to debate.
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Pygoscelis
09-17-2007, 11:15 PM
First, to the person who said men are more swayed by appearances than women are, I'm not so sure that is true. You'd have to factor in social and economic matters which I think play a major role here. Over here in the west men are expected to be horndogs and women are expected not to be (ie the peculiar way promiscuous women are looked down on and promiscuous men are admired - less so than during the 'christian family values' era, but the double standard is still there a little). From what I can tell gender roles are even more entrenched over there.

Second, have you ever spoken with nudists (I assume you'd never actually go to a nudist colony as I have done)? You may be suprised how powerful the nudity taboo is in creating carnal desire.
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Isambard
09-18-2007, 12:16 AM
Why dont men cover their hair? As far as I am aware, women have sexual urges as well.

That said, if the men of the society have so much trouble keeping it under the belt, then why dont they take some impotance drugs or just get rid of it all together? This would make much more sense then having womencompletely covered for the convience of men.
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جوري
09-18-2007, 12:43 AM
men cover their heads as well.. I don't know if it is mandatory
here are some head covering for Jewish men

here is one of a Yemeni Jew


here are some coverings for monks in spain... similar to KKK .. posted similar in another thread


sikhs covering their head


of course this is famous and popular in parts of middle east



so yeah men cover too.. however the requirements differ...
there is dignity in clothes and loss of when people are stripped of them... that is why people don't show up to work in their speedos.. and don't give sermons in G strings...But we do notice that the first thing war mongers do is strip people of their clothes, and take picture of them for voyeuristic pleasures.....
Anyhow this shouldn't even be a topic for a debate.. like the wife of the Turkish president once said.. I have only a covering on my head but not on my mind...

oh.. 'the president' sports a kippah

becoming?

Another addendum... nothing wrong with having carnal desires... better than being desensitized from all the free nakedness in my opinion... covering isn't a denial of sexuality.. rather to maintain respect and dignity of the individual.. sexuality to be designated to where appropriate and under the sanctity of marriage.. only animals copulate with whatever crosses their path... Humans with any hope are ennobled.. at least those of them that choose to not give in to the temptations of the lower self and subscribe to the quality of being worthy of esteem and respect!
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Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн
09-18-2007, 12:43 AM
You gotta admit, guys get aroused faster...I don't get aroused when i see a guy hairy legss or short messy hair or somethin...big difference.
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Isambard
09-18-2007, 03:05 AM
Originally Posted by Jazzy
You gotta admit, guys get aroused faster...I don't get aroused when i see a guy hairy legss or short messy hair or somethin...big difference.
Depends on the person, but generally speaking you are correct...if you only focus of visual stimulus...Women get aroused by situation and more abstract things thou studies with cameras have found that women are more likely to look a guy over and with more frequency then a man is to do to a woman. The difference lies in men's more narrow field of vision and lack of tact...which means they are simply caught more lol :D

Thnx for the post PA, I was wondering what the shawls were for. What about the beard though? Ive heard that Islamic men should have beards because it makes them masculine, if thats the case, wouldnt it be similar to how being curvey or having breasts makes a woman feminine?
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Pygoscelis
09-18-2007, 03:15 AM
I would love to see a discussion on this topic between a devout muslim and a nudist. I've seen both sides now but I've never seen them in one place.
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Woodrow
09-18-2007, 03:32 AM
Originally Posted by Pygoscelis
I would love to see a discussion on this topic between a devout muslim and a nudist. I've seen both sides now but I've never seen them in one place.
You won't see them in the same place. If you did it would not be a devout Muslim who is partaking in the discussion.

Now that was a reply I did not expect. Although thinking about it, it is a logical question as it is a search for the differences between extremes.

An actual discussion like that would probably be impossible. This would most likely end up as a non-discussion, sort of similar to "what would happen if an irresistible force hit an immovable object?"


The closest you could come would be to read the writings of some acknowledged Islamic scholars and compare them with the words or writings of Nudist activists.
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Isambard
09-18-2007, 03:36 AM
Originally Posted by Woodrow
You won't see them in the same place. If you did it would not be a devout Muslim who is partaking in the discussion.

Now that was a reply I did not expect. Although thinking about it, it is a logical question as it is a search for the differences between extremes.

An actual discussion like that would probably be impossible. This would most likely end up as a non-discussion, sort of similar to "what would happen if an irresistible force hit an immovable object?"


The closest you could come would be to read the writings of some acknowledged Islamic scholars and compare them with the words or writings of Nudist activists.
Would be nice to see an objective book written and researched on Islamic modesty vs. Nudists. I got a feeling alot of claims would be debunked :D
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جوري
09-18-2007, 03:39 AM
Originally Posted by Isambard

Thnx for the post PA, I was wondering what the shawls were for. What about the beard though? Ive heard that Islamic men should have beards because it makes them masculine, if thats the case, wouldnt it be similar to how being curvey or having breasts makes a woman feminine?
I have posted a few more above for your viewing pleasure ..
Now I am not sure why there is a problem with being feminine or masculine? why is it a bad thing to be curvy (femnine or masculine)? I mean surely you see the difference between flaunting your beauty and down right denying it... People who imitate the opposite gender are very sincerely frowned upon... you should take pride in what you are.. just don't share it with every Tom, Dick and Harry... and respect the sanctity of your marriage...Surely even though this lady is sporting a Niqab which is more conservative than a Hijab, you can still sense that she is very feminine?



Anyhow.. some of the outfits you see are popular to a particular area, Muslims from Iraq have different traditional dress from Muslim in Pakistan.. Thus a 'shawl' that might be popular to the Saudis, might not be to the pakistanis... each area usually sticks to its traditional wear while maintaining their modesty...
regards
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ahsan28
09-18-2007, 07:18 AM
Originally Posted by Pygoscelis
First, to the person who said men are more swayed by appearances than women are, I'm not so sure that is true.

Then why do we only see male non-Muslims posing questions and hinting against the hijab and modest wearings?

Does the concept of hijab and concealment bother them too much because they can't fulfill their desires when they look at Muslim women?

In a Muslim country, if a woman were to go out dressed in a miniskirt or something and along side her walked a modestly dressed Muslim sister, the onlookers would most definitely say/do/feel evil towards the former. This is because in these countries, the hijab and concealment is a common trend and it is respected, unlike in western countries where it is detested.
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nevesirth
09-18-2007, 07:26 AM
i see no reason why ome people are still opposed to muslimahs choosing to wear the hijab. wearing the hijab does not make someone function less in a society. is there any special benefit for seeing a womans hair? i think the hijab is a symbol of modesty and every woman has the right to make a choice to wear hijab

salamu alaykum
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جوري
09-18-2007, 09:12 AM
^^^ agree Muslim women are in all fields and in all sports.. I am not sure why some people just can't live and let live? Seems the only freedom Muslim women seek is that from nasty comments of those who deem them opressed! Perhaps the easiest thing to do is ask a sister if she feels opressed?




Still in the water
Egypt's greatest swimmer before she retired, Rania Elwani's love affair with water continues -- but there has been a career change. Nashwa Abdel-Tawab talks to the gold fish who has a new wish

It is not easy being Rania Elwani and it is certainly not easy keeping up with her. One of the world's fastest short-distance swimmers until she retired two years ago, Elwani has kept up her torrid pace on land as well. Meeting her can be a small miracle, so packed is her schedule. The day begins at 6am with rowing, followed by classes at the Faculty of Medicine at Misr University for Science and Technology, lunch at home, hitting the books, some more training, more classes, working at her new job in the International Olympic Committee and, finally, bedtime. Time off to call her friends and visit relatives has become a luxury.

Our "miracle meeting" took place on the Nile where Elwani has taken rowing so seriously that her goal is to make the Olympic team. Elwani, who spent 17 years plying the waters as an Olympic swimmer, was born to race in water and, even though she retired from the sport and donned the scarf, she has returned to her element all over again. There is a bond with water that even she cannot explain. "I don't know what's the reason behind choosing rowing as a replacement for swimming," Elwani said. "It came naturally. I stopped swimming after the Sydney Olympics and took up rowing eight months later. I am a sportswoman. Sports is in my genes. I wake up early to play sports and it seems that rowing is a natural shift for me and, of course, it entails water."

Elwani took up rowing for fun at first, but by time and after hearing her competitive spirit calling, she decided to go one step further and take it seriously. Seriously means training two hours in the morning, two hours in the evening and one hour of fitness practice -- and hoping to make the 2004 Greece Games.

As when she was an Olympic swimmer, she has hired a woman coach for her rowing, Olga Stydova, an ex-world champion from the Ukraine. "I've got the endurance and Olga's got the technique, and I'm rowing hard."

Can Elwani become an established rower? She admits that there is no comparison between swimming and rowing. While she may have the endurance of a rower -- in swimming, Elwani put in roughly five hours a day in training plus rough endurance sessions -- the techniques in both sports are oceans apart.

"It's hard to imagine winning the African Rowing Championship in September (which would book a ticket to the Olympics) with only one year's worth of rowing. With no experience or time, it's doubtful."

Still, in her skiff, she takes on the Nile waters with fierce determination, the kind that made her a swimming sensation. Though she did not win a medal in the three Olympic Games she entered, Elwani's feats are immense all the same. In Sydney, she took 11th place in the 50-metre freestyle and 16th in the 100m freestyle, the best Arab achievements ever. At one time, she was ninth in the world in 50 metres and 10th in the 100.

However, it was at the regional level that Elwani had her finest moments, starting with the 1991 All-Africa Games in Egypt where she exploded on the national scene at age 13, collecting nine medals, including four gold. In the 1995 All-Africa Games she won three gold medals and in the more challenging Mediterranean Games in Bari in 1997 she garnered two gold and one silver. Her amazing performance in the 1997 Arab Games in Beirut, where she hauled in nine gold medals and two silver, was somehow bested in Amman two years later when she struck gold -- incredibly -- 11 times.

Elwani's prodigal pool showings helped get her selected last month to the International Olympic Committee (IOC), one of only 15 athletes so honoured. At only 23, she has thus become the first Egyptian woman to enter the IOC and only the second Egyptian to do so, following Munir Thabet, president of the Egyptian Olympic Committee.

At IOC headquarters in Lausanne, she was given her first task, that of how to combat drugs in sports and run an Olympics.

Her IOC membership lasts for eight years during which Elwani, going by her history, will prove an excellent ambassador for Egypt. She is a straight A student in college -- though she sheepishly admits to a few B's when at Southern Methodist University in Dallas, Texas.

And there is that steely determination to be the best at what she does. "It took me 17 years of hard training to be the best Arab swimmer, male or female," Elwani said "If I'm going to train for rowing, I have to do it seriously. I have to organise my time and not waste it." As she goes about her daily routine, there isn't much time that can go to waste.
http://weekly.ahram.org.eg/2002/586/sp4.htm
:w:
Reply

guyabano
09-18-2007, 09:19 AM
Originally Posted by nomadicsoul
yeah...the muslim woman is too important to be on display like some cheap product.
all other women are also important and need to be respected. Or you want to say, that my wife is a cheap product, just because she's not veiled?

I'm pretty sure, you do, just you don't have the guts to speak it out! And I'm always told on the forum, I'm intolerant...pffffff
Reply

guyabano
09-18-2007, 09:25 AM
Originally Posted by bewildred
I just want to send my greatest admiration to the ladies wh chose to wear "TENTS". Can you imagine the amount of courage it can take one to make such a decision? I mean, in a society that's so very superficial. Some pseudo diktats think they have the right to impose the corrupt occidental aesthetic kanons on us?

These ladies are so brave to follow their religion and back face the fashion current. Hats off to you ladies and may you get the respect that you deserve.

Bewildred

The point is, are these burkha's also 'daily-life' proof?
I mean, can a woman drive car like that, what about her mobility, her field of vision, carrying things, riding a bike?
I'm sorry, but since a few women wearing burkha's blow themselves off in the name of Allah, I'm feeling uncomfortable in presence of such women. Before these terrorist attacks, I had no problem with that.
Reply

rozeena
09-18-2007, 09:35 AM
Originally Posted by guyabano
The point is, are these burkha's also 'daily-life' proof?
I mean, can a woman drive car like that, what about her mobility, her field of vision, carrying things, riding a bike?
I'm sorry, but since a few women wearing burkha's blow themselves off in the name of Allah, I'm feeling uncomfortable in presence of such women. Before these terrorit attacks, I had no problem with that.
???
Reply

guyabano
09-18-2007, 09:48 AM
Originally Posted by rozeena
???
'tent' ... Burqa !!! Got it ? :okay:
Reply

جوري
09-18-2007, 09:56 AM
Let's keep it clean for Ramadan please...
A woman who wears a burqa does so by choice as it isn't obligatory in Islam like hijab.. some like to swim.. some like a completely spiritual path.. it is their choice.. like some nuns choose to forgo marriage, normal male/female relations as 'nature' dictates and live in a convent.. No one has a right to tell anyone they are making the wrong choice!
We need to deal with our own discomforts rather than force others to conform and adopt our idea of 'freedom'!

peace!
Reply

ahsan28
09-18-2007, 09:59 AM
Originally Posted by guyabano
I'm sorry, but since a few women wearing burkha's blow themselves off in the name of Allah,

Condemn the Roman Catholic Church for its complicity in the atrocities committed during Argentina’s “dirty war.”

The attitude of the church was scandalously close to the dictatorship” that killed more than 15,000 Argentines and tortured tens of thousands more, the priest told a panel of three judges here, “to such an extent that I would say it was of a sinful degree.” The panel is deciding the fate of the Rev. Christian von Wernich, a priest accused of conspiring with the military who has become for many a powerful symbol of the church’s role.


By ALEXEI BARRIONUEVO
Published: September 17, 2007

NY Times

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/17/wo...8bd&ei=5087%0A


Should we blame christianity for the wrong acts by few????

You may open the link to see a christian lady wearing scarf with the name of Jesus carved on it :D
Reply

rozeena
09-18-2007, 10:48 AM
Originally Posted by guyabano
'tent' ... Burqa !!! Got it ? :okay:
ill jus :X cus guna say sumfin dt u wnt like,
Reply

Esther462
10-17-2007, 06:52 PM
I've the video many times on YouTube.

If Non Muslims want to wear hijab, its up to them, theres nothing topping them. Hijab and covering yourself up is a good thing in the summer. I get sun burnt really easyerly and I fell really tence when I'm not covered up in the summer and the winter. Sun cream is also bad for you as its got loads of narsty man made cemicals in them which can cause damage to your health. I know this because I watch a program about it on Channel 4 in the UK and I found it really intresting.
Reply

Pygoscelis
10-17-2007, 07:47 PM
Originally Posted by Ahsan28
Then why do we only see male non-Muslims posing questions and hinting against the hijab and modest wearings?
Apparently because you're not looking closely enough. I know many female non-mulsims who see the hajib as repression. This isn't a male thing.
Reply

Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн
10-18-2007, 03:36 PM
Female or not, their reasoning is the same. I see no difference except that the men get a free viewing. Unless of course the woman likes another woman...ok ill leave now.
Reply

Jayda
11-17-2007, 10:43 PM
Originally Posted by Woodrow
The original Christian women and Jewish women do wear the Hijab or variations of it. If not always.

For most Jews and Christians it is mandatory for worship.

But, as people change, many now find reasons to say it is not required.

Some Examples:



there is no logical reason for people to be opposed to Muslimahs wearing Hijabs. A Hijab is much more beautiful than anything a hair stylist can do.
hola

although i think that might be a protestant, that picture is what i wear. it is called a 'mantilla' and women wear them at mass, anytime we visit the vatican and also when we pray at home. they exist because of modesty requirements and because of a commandment from the apostle St. Paul, who said it is a sin for a woman to go to Church without covering her hair. i have two, one is black and i wear it at funerals, the other one is white and looks a lot like that one. sometimes i just wear a handkercheif and tie it around my hair.

que Dios te bendiga
Reply

Jayda
11-17-2007, 10:48 PM
Originally Posted by nevesirth
i see no reason why ome people are still opposed to muslimahs choosing to wear the hijab. wearing the hijab does not make someone function less in a society. is there any special benefit for seeing a womans hair? i think the hijab is a symbol of modesty and every woman has the right to make a choice to wear hijab

salamu alaykum
i agree... i do not believe it is a sin or immodest for me or other women to show our hair, but i do not think it is weird, peculiar or should be illegal (which is absurd) for women to cover their hair publicly... a persons clothing choices should be their own, as long as they are reasonably modest.
Reply

ummzayd
11-18-2007, 08:42 PM
Originally Posted by Jayda
i agree... i do not believe it is a sin or immodest for me or other women to show our hair.

from your previous post, I take it you DO believe it would be sin not to cover your hair in church?

and are you happy that the reason is not plain and simple modesty, but because unlike men, 'women are not made for the glory of God'? sorry but I always detested that scripture.

peace
Reply

Jayda
11-19-2007, 03:18 AM
Originally Posted by ummzayd
from your previous post, I take it you DO believe it would be sin not to cover your hair in church?

and are you happy that the reason is not plain and simple modesty, but because unlike men, 'women are not made for the glory of God'? sorry but I always detested that scripture.

peace
hola

si, in church it would be inappropriate, outside of Church it's not immodest. and si, i am happy doing anything that pleases God and His messengers.

que Dios te bendiga
Reply

ummzayd
11-19-2007, 06:47 AM
Originally Posted by Jayda
hola

si, in church it would be inappropriate, outside of Church it's not immodest. and si, i am happy doing anything that pleases God and His messengers.

que Dios te bendiga

inappropriate or sinful? I think there is a difference.

I too (& majority of my Muslim sisters) are happy to please God by wearing hijab, and even happier that it is not for any reasons of shame or inferiority as is often supposed by Christians, but simply for reasons of modesty.

peace
Reply

Jayda
11-19-2007, 12:47 PM
Originally Posted by ummzayd
inappropriate or sinful? I think there is a difference.

I too (& majority of my Muslim sisters) are happy to please God by wearing hijab, and even happier that it is not for any reasons of shame or inferiority as is often supposed by Christians, but simply for reasons of modesty.

peace
hola ummzayd,

inappropriate... under the old canon law (1917) it was a requirement, however under new canon there is no mention and the Church has not clarified on the matter. it can be presumed either way...

the passage you referred to was not the complete picture. paul was recounting the creation of adam and eve, not saying men are better than women. adam was created by God and then when he became lonely God created eve for him. in the very same passage he goes on to explain that women are not independent from men and men are not inappropriate from women and that all originate from God.

que Dios te bendiga
Reply

ummzayd
11-24-2007, 08:59 AM
Originally Posted by Jayda
hola ummzayd,

inappropriate... under the old canon law (1917) it was a requirement, however under new canon there is no mention and the Church has not clarified on the matter. it can be presumed either way...


que Dios te bendiga
thanks for taking the time to reply - so the direct (and forcefully expressed) commandment in the bible about women covering in church, is so easily cast aside?

(and about the scripture, I know that Paul said other, less contentious things about women and men and their respective attributes in the eyes of God :sunny:)

peace
Reply

jouju
11-24-2007, 09:30 AM
Assalam alykum warahmatullah.....
Transparent hejaabs aint allowed in islaam
No offense but...some Questions cant be asked in islaam.The same way we bliv God exists But we havent seen him
Allah has a hikma behind everything..Hejaab is not a sign of our inferiority..
Yaa ayyyuha nnabiyy qul liazwaajika wabanaatika............dhaalika adnaa an yu3rafna falaa yu'dheyn
Reply

Jayda
11-24-2007, 01:08 PM
Originally Posted by ummzayd
thanks for taking the time to reply - so the direct (and forcefully expressed) commandment in the bible about women covering in church, is so easily cast aside?
hola,

the commandment comes from the Apostle St. Paul, who we consider a saint, a great teacher and a doctor of the Church. we believe he recieved guidance from God (most especially on the famous road to damascus) however we do not consider him a prophet, messiah or something along those lines. when he taught about God it was in the form of sermons and not prophesies, when he gave advice from himself it was only from himself. so it is difficult to say whether the commandment carries the same force as something like the ten commandments or the beatitudes.

that said, it is not cast aside, it is just not directly addressed by the Church at this point. prevailing opinion is that it is required under Canon 5 now, since it is a Church practice from time immemorial, and it remains required dress code for all women who visit the Vatican for an audience. some simply choose not to do this. most Catholics worldwide still wear head coverings. it is not done so much in the western world however in asia and latin america specifically it is extremely common, africa as well.

when there is a situation that something is not directly referenced it is best for a Catholic to ask her priest or bishop.

(and about the scripture, I know that Paul said other, less contentious things about women and men and their respective attributes in the eyes of God :sunny:)

peace
i was referring to that exact passage though, not elsewhere... the entire narrative includes the one line you quoted but goes on into a much longer explanation of what he meant and specifically includes a warning that men and women are equal in the eyes of God.

que Dios te bendiga
Reply

*KB*
11-24-2007, 01:38 PM
Assalamualaykum

Sorry to bring the bad news but did anyone read the comments from the people that were written below?. I'm quite shocked they allowed that personally.

Assalamualaykum
*KB*
:coolious:
Reply

Ali.
11-25-2007, 05:45 PM
The link doesn't work for me :(
Reply

mariam.
11-26-2007, 08:09 PM
Originally Posted by Jayda
i agree... i do not believe it is a sin or immodest for me or other women to show our hair, but i do not think it is weird, peculiar or should be illegal (which is absurd) for women to cover their hair publicly... a persons clothing choices should be their own, as long as they are reasonably modest.
hey, Jayda it's been a long time since I've seen you here .. how are you?

I agree with you jayda, but there is some thing different between you as a christian and me as a moslem .. Hijab in Islam is dictate from God, If you leave it then you did a sin.

And the scripture that sister ummzayd mention makes me :offended: .. Iam sorry to said that.

whereas Islam ask us to preserve our femininity for our good .. please read this verses: "O Prophet! Tell thy wives and daughters, and the believing women, that they should cast their outer garments over their persons (when out of doors): that is most convenient, that they should be known (as such) and not molested. And Allah is Oft- Forgiving, Most Merciful."

"O Consorts of the Prophet ye are not like any of the (other) women: if ye do fear (God), be not too complaisant of speech, lest one in whose heart is a disease should be moved with desire: but speak ye a speech (that is) just "

any way, we are different but concordant.
peace
Reply

Jayda
11-26-2007, 10:24 PM
Originally Posted by mariam.
hey, Jayda it's been a long time since I've seen you here .. how are you?

I agree with you jayda, but there is some thing different between you as a christian and me as a moslem .. Hijab in Islam is dictate from God, If you leave it then you did a sin.

And the scripture that sister ummzayd mention makes me :offended: .. Iam sorry to said that.

whereas Islam ask us to preserve our femininity for our good .. please read this verses: "O Prophet! Tell thy wives and daughters, and the believing women, that they should cast their outer garments over their persons (when out of doors): that is most convenient, that they should be known (as such) and not molested. And Allah is Oft- Forgiving, Most Merciful."

"O Consorts of the Prophet ye are not like any of the (other) women: if ye do fear (God), be not too complaisant of speech, lest one in whose heart is a disease should be moved with desire: but speak ye a speech (that is) just "

any way, we are different but concordant.
peace
hola mariam,

i am not certain how i am right now... sadly it has been a very tragic and difficult year, gracias for asking, i hope you are well.

i am concerned that the verse you quoted is one of the reasons so many muslims believe rape victims 'had it coming' who do not dress modestly according to muslim standards. the most infamous example is Sheikh al-Hilali of Australia who described raped women as 'meat.' it is extremely offensive to me to hear and read these things coming from both muslims and islamic sources. i am also very confused that this presupposes rape is a crime of desire rather than one of control and preestablished conditioning (as psychology has proven).

que Dios te bendiga
Reply

Jayda
11-26-2007, 10:27 PM
as an interesting aside, i explained the reasons we wear mantillas and head coverings in christianity... to which it seems the majority of you believe our reasons are not even remotely related. this of course disproves Woodrow's point that 'hijab,' such as it is, exists in Christianity, doesn't it?

que Dios te bendiga
Reply

chosen
11-26-2007, 10:53 PM
nothing wrong with being modest..i am christian and i believe a person should dress as they feel they should dress..muslim christian..if a women feel like covering her head for whatever reason people should leave them be..
Reply

mariam.
11-27-2007, 11:25 AM
Originally Posted by Jayda
hola mariam,

i am not certain how i am right now... sadly it has been a very tragic and difficult year, gracias for asking, i hope you are well.

i am concerned that the verse you quoted is one of the reasons so many muslims believe rape victims 'had it coming' who do not dress modestly according to muslim standards. the most infamous example is Sheikh al-Hilali of Australia who described raped women as 'meat.' it is extremely offensive to me to hear and read these things coming from both muslims and islamic sources. i am also very confused that this presupposes rape is a crime of desire rather than one of control and preestablished conditioning (as psychology has proven).

que Dios te bendiga
Hi jayda, thank God Iam fine .. I agree with you that doesn't dressing modestly isn't the only reason for rape victims; but it's One of the reasons.
Reply

Malaikah
11-27-2007, 12:12 PM
Originally Posted by Jayda
i am concerned that the verse you quoted is one of the reasons so many muslims believe rape victims 'had it coming' who do not dress modestly according to muslim standards. the most infamous example is Sheikh al-Hilali of Australia who described raped women as 'meat.' it is extremely offensive to me to hear and read these things coming from both muslims and islamic sources. i am also very confused that this presupposes rape is a crime of desire rather than one of control and preestablished conditioning (as psychology has proven).
I don't think so Jayda... notice how the verse called the male who might annoy the female as the one who has a disease in his heart. The problem is with the man, not the woman. And the women are asked to protect themselves from those men who's hearts are disease by dressing modestly.

(And we aren't talking about cardiovascular disease either... in case you misunderstood lol)

Also you have misquoted the Shaykh, he only used the word meat as part of an analogy- he said the woman was meat in the eyes of the rapist, who he said was like a cat. Cats eat meat. It was an analogy, though the media conveniently forget to treat is as one. He was not saying women are meat, full stop. He was saying they are meat in the eyes of the rapist. the implications are totally different.
Reply

Jayda
11-27-2007, 03:55 PM
Originally Posted by mariam.
Hi jayda, thank God Iam fine .. I agree with you that doesn't dressing modestly isn't the only reason for rape victims; but it's One of the reasons.
Originally Posted by Malaikah
I don't think so Jayda... notice how the verse called the male who might annoy the female as the one who has a disease in his heart. The problem is with the man, not the woman. And the women are asked to protect themselves from those men who's hearts are disease by dressing modestly.

(And we aren't talking about cardiovascular disease either... in case you misunderstood lol)

Also you have misquoted the Shaykh, he only used the word meat as part of an analogy- he said the woman was meat in the eyes of the rapist, who he said was like a cat. Cats eat meat. It was an analogy, though the media conveniently forget to treat is as one. He was not saying women are meat, full stop. He was saying they are meat in the eyes of the rapist. the implications are totally different.
hola

your opinions seem to be at odds, but perhaps i misunderstand what you are saying.

to clarify my point, the way a girl dresses is not a factor (not even a small one) in rape. rape is about control, not lust, and the psychological foundation of the rapist. with regards to the comments of the religious leader from Australia, i understand this was an analogy, and i apologize for mischaracterizing his analogy as a direct insult, but his analogy is outrageous, he was teaching that if women dressed modestly according to the expectations of Islam otherwise they are not protecting themselves from rapists. this assumes two very wrong things: victims who don't conform to your beliefs dress immodestly (ethnocentric) and the attention of rapists is something that a victim has any degree of control over.

especially within the political and social context of his comments (sydney gang rapes), this was outrageously inappropriate. effectively he was making the same argument that the rapists made when they called the women they attacked prostitutes because they were not muslims and did not adhere to islamic standards of dress. the victims were random and the attackers were motivated by hatred toward australians and non muslims, in the words of two:

"You deserve it because you're an Australian"
"When you are feeling down ...bash a Christian or Catholic and lift up"

so clearly their crimes were not ones of passion or sexual desire, but rather ones of rage and control. they wanted to hurt them because of who they were, they did not desire them sexually. the sheikhs comments and beliefs were insensitive and reflect an ignorant stereotype that rape is motivated by desire and a woman shares the responsibility by needing to 'protect herself' in how she decides to look. it is even more insulting because his implication is that the rape victims were immodest for not dressing according to islamic standards, a view i have no doubt the rapists would agree with.

que Dios te bendiga
Reply

cihad
11-28-2007, 11:20 AM
there are some hijabs nowadays that are like nets-like wth holes ,when i see people wear it, it just frustrates me and makes me laugh at the absurdity of it all.
Reply

Jayda
11-28-2007, 04:28 PM
lol that defeats the point...
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Esther462
11-28-2007, 08:31 PM
I see nothing wrong with non Muslims wearing hijab but in countrys that are Christian dominated, people do look at you strainagely and ask if you are Muslim.^o)

After I converted to Islam, I started to wear hijab but I still went to my local church on Sundays (I know this wrong) to keep up appeances for my parents because I wasn't ready to tell them that I was Muslim. I wore my hijab to the meetings and I stuck out like a sore thumb as I was the only person in the building wearing hijab. I was asked by loads of my christian friends if I was Muslim and I didn't answer and quickly moved on to another subject. I know this was wrong at the time but I wasn't ready to tell them that I was Muslim. They all know I'm Muslim now and I've stopped attending the church meetings now. All my family and Christian friends are not happy that I'm Muslim but they will have to learn to live with it.
:Crescent:

One advantage that I have found with wearing hijab is that it covers my hair when I forget to wash it as most mornings I don't have time to wash and dry my hair before going to college.:muslimah:
Reply

Intisar
11-28-2007, 10:41 PM
Originally Posted by Esther462

One advantage that I have found with wearing hijab is that it covers my hair when I forget to wash it as most mornings I don't have time to wash and dry my hair before going to college.:muslimah:
:sl: Hehe sis, just make sure that the hijaab doesn't turn into a crutch for you not doing your hair. ;D
Reply

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