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Isambard
09-18-2007, 04:16 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VjgidAICoQI

I really hope this is a joke......
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Malaikah
09-18-2007, 05:57 AM
That is interesting!

And it isn't a joke: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expanding_earth_theory

What I want to know is WHERE DID ALL THE WATER COME FROM?!
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Isambard
09-18-2007, 04:25 PM
Originally Posted by Malaikah
That is interesting!

And it isn't a joke: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expanding_earth_theory

What I want to know is WHERE DID ALL THE WATER COME FROM?!
Thats both funny and sad....

I wondered the same thing....and how rock expands...unless the Earth is really a baloon lol
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Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн
09-18-2007, 04:41 PM
That is wicked :D Thanks for sharing.

100 years of scientific theory out the window LOL! Ouchy. What does the Qur'an say about this, btw.
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Woodrow
09-18-2007, 04:54 PM
:w:

Just a thought. I seem to recall that somewhere in the Qur'an we are told the universe is expnding. If the universe is expanding, and since we are part of the universe, isn't it logical that the earth is expanding?

Now if I can find the ayyats that refer to the universe expanding.
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islamirama
09-18-2007, 04:58 PM
Originally Posted by Woodrow
:w:

Just a thought. I seem to recall that somewhere in the Qur'an we are told the universe is expnding. If the universe is expanding, and since we are part of the universe, isn't it logical that the earth is expanding?

Now if I can find the ayyats that refer to the universe expanding.
Noble Verse 51:47"And the firmament, We constructed with power and skill and verily We are expanding it."

The Universe will also shrink: "The Day that We roll up the heavens like a scroll rolled up for books (completed),- even as We produced the first creation, so shall We produce a new one: a promise We have undertaken: truly shall We fulfil it. (The Noble Quran, 21:104)"



"The universe starts with a Big Bang, expands to a maximum dimension, then recontracts and collapses (to the Big Crunch); no more awe-inspiring prediction was ever made." Quotation from Charles W. Misner, Kip S. Thorne and John A. Wheeler in "Gravitation", W. H. Freeman, San Francisco, 1973, page 1196.
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ISLAMASWEENEY
09-18-2007, 05:01 PM
Thank you
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Woodrow
09-18-2007, 05:05 PM
Originally Posted by islamirama
Noble Verse 51:47"And the firmament, We constructed with power and skill and verily We are expanding it."

The Universe will also shrink: "The Day that We roll up the heavens like a scroll rolled up for books (completed),- even as We produced the first creation, so shall We produce a new one: a promise We have undertaken: truly shall We fulfil it. (The Noble Quran, 21:104)"



"The universe starts with a Big Bang, expands to a maximum dimension, then recontracts and collapses (to the Big Crunch); no more awe-inspiring prediction was ever made." Quotation from Charles W. Misner, Kip S. Thorne and John A. Wheeler in "Gravitation", W. H. Freeman, San Francisco, 1973, page 1196.
:w:

JZK that is what I was looking for,
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Malaikah
09-18-2007, 11:45 PM
Originally Posted by Isambard
I wondered the same thing....and how rock expands...unless the Earth is really a baloon lol
lol, well it might have something to do withthe fact that the core is hot, perhaps as it cold it expanded? but then that doesn't make sense, wouldn't that have caused climate change? hmmm maybe that is what killed the dinosaurs after all. :blind:
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☆ღUmm Uthmanღ☆
09-19-2007, 01:45 AM
:sl:
Subhan'Allah, thats fabulous. JazakumAllahu Khairun for that site!
:w:
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MustafaMc
09-19-2007, 02:34 AM
Originally Posted by Malaikah
That is interesting!

And it isn't a joke: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expanding_earth_theory

What I want to know is WHERE DID ALL THE WATER COME FROM?!
I found this video about the expanding earth to be simply amazing. The explanation seemed plausible to me. Isn't there supposed to be an increase in earthquakes near the end of time? If so, this could be due to an accelerated expansion of the earth.

Yeah, where did the water come from? What about all of the salt that is disolved in the oceans?

Where did the oil come from? How did it get so deep into the earth?

Too many questions and too finite of a mind to comprehend it all.
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Isambard
09-19-2007, 02:54 AM
Spoiler Alert!

This isnt a real theory.....
I posted it because its a joke...
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Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн
09-19-2007, 03:18 AM
Lies!! =| Better not have been a joke. Anyways...I liked the video.
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Isambard
09-19-2007, 04:11 AM
Originally Posted by Jazzy
Lies!! =| Better not have been a joke. Anyways...I liked the video.
Well, Im sure the guy in the video didnt think its a jk...but the science behind it is. Youd have to ignore the entire field of geology.
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Abdul Fattah
09-19-2007, 05:13 AM
I don't know the details of this theorie so I won't make any judgements, just thinking out loud here,
1. I don't think the theory holds that there was no water before, but that the water from the current oceans was just on the continents (hence the fish-fossils in china and france etc)
2. As for "rock expanding" I Could think of a number of ways:
lowering the surrounding pressure (think of a baloon filled with air in a vacuum), In case of the earth, the surrounding presure has alrways been low as space is a vacuum, the trigger could then be that at some point the surface gains elasticity, or the core loses mass and the gravitational pull weakens.
Yet another cause could be the earth is warming up, though that would pose even bigger questions, it be more probable to assume the earth is cooling down, in which case it would be expected to shrink if temperature is significant.

The point that I got lost was where science would be threatened by this theory and form a conspiracy against it. I seem to be missing the links there :)
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Malaikah
09-19-2007, 05:41 AM
Originally Posted by Isambard
Spoiler Alert!

This isnt a real theory.....
I posted it because its a joke...
But according to wiki, some scientists actually believe it. :confused:
Reply

guyabano
09-19-2007, 07:07 AM
Originally Posted by Isambard
Spoiler Alert!

This isnt a real theory.....
I posted it because its a joke...
Anyway, the title of this 'Youtube' Video is 'Conspiracy....' :D

No seriously. The earth is shrinking. Why? Because the core which is made of liquid magma is cooling down. And remember what happen to a cake, when it comes out of the oven? It shrink inside the shape. Same thing happen to the earth.
The continents are drifting, because the tectonic plates are floating on the magma.
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islamirama
09-19-2007, 03:34 PM
Here's a thought...

Look at the sun or any star and its life span. Some die out and become dwarfs and thus decrease in size and some become red stars or other super giants. So if the stars can change size, why not planets?
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Woodrow
09-19-2007, 04:07 PM
Originally Posted by islamirama
Here's a thought...

Look at the sun or any star and its life span. Some die out and become dwarfs and thus decrease in size and some become red stars or other super giants. So if the stars can change size, why not planets?
The earth is growing and expanding, but not by the exact method as described in the Original post.

One type of growth is through meteors. We gain a lot of weight and size daily.

I like this article, Scientific fact, but written as a story.

“Hold on!” cried Raed. “There are 400,000,000 of them on any ordinary night of the year. But, during April, August, and November, there are more, — sometimes vast showers like that of 1833: so, reckoning in these months, the average would be more than 400,000,000 per diem. Ques*tion arises, how much more?”

“As much again,” said Wash; “800,000,000 on an average.”

“One-half more,” said Wade; “600,000,000 on an average.”

“Split the difference!” cried Raed; “call it 700,000,000. Now how many pounds at one grain each?”

“Let’s see,” said Wade. “How many grains in a pound avoirdupois?”

“7,000,” said Wash. “Now we have it, then, — 100,000 pounds of meteors fall to the earth daily.”

“How much in a year?” demanded Raed.

“365 times 100,000,” repeated Wade; “36,500,000 pounds per year.”

“How much per century ?”

“3,650,000,000 pounds!” cried Wash.

“How many tons would that be? Divide by 2,000.”

“1,825,000 tons!” exclaimed Wade.
Source: http://www.kellscraft.com/CampingOut/CampingOut12.html

Now that explains growth, but expansion is a little different. the earth is also expanding as the universe expands. This has in part to do with reduction in molecular attraction as gravity decays. The decay rate of gravity can be measured. If somebody is good at math they can calulate the rate molecules are moving away from each other and demonstrate the expansion rate of the earth. I'm too lazy. But, here is a little info on the rate of gravitational decay.

The decay rate of cosmological gravitational potential measures the deviation from Einsteinndashde Sitter universe and can put strong constraints on the nature of dark energy and gravity. The usual method to measure this decay rate is through the integrated Sachs-Wolfe (ISW) effectndashlarge-scale structure (LSS) cross-correlation. However, the interpretation of the measured correlation signal is complicated by galaxy bias and the matter power spectrum. This could bias and/or degrade its constraints on the nature of dark energy and gravity. But combining the lensing-LSS cross-correlation measurements, the decay rate of gravitational potential can be isolated. For any given narrow redshift bin of LSS, the ratio of the two cross-correlations directly measures dlnDphis/dlnaH(z)/W(chi,chis), where Dphis is the linear growth factor of the gravitational potential, H is the Hubble constant at redshift z, W(chi,chis) is the lensing kernel, and chi and chis are the comoving angular diameter distance to lens and source, respectively. This method is optimal in the sense that (1) the measured quantity is essentially free of systematic errors and is only limited by cosmic variance, and (2) the measured quantity depends only on several cosmological parameters and can be predicted from first principles unambiguously. Although fundamentally limited by the inevitably large cosmic variance associated with the ISW measurements, it can still put useful independent constraints on the amount of dark energy and its equation of state. It can also provide a powerful test of modified gravity and can distinguish the Dvali-Gabadadze-Porrati model from LambdaCDM at >2.5 sigma confidence level.

Source: http://www.journals.uchicago.edu/cgi...511209576Guest
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Abdul Fattah
09-19-2007, 04:37 PM
Here's a thought...

Look at the sun or any star and its life span. Some die out and become dwarfs and thus decrease in size and some become red stars or other super giants. So if the stars can change size, why not planets?
Why not? I don't know, maybe because they have different sizes, different substances, different temperatures :)

No seriously. The earth is shrinking. Why? Because the core which is made of liquid magma is cooling down. And remember what happen to a cake, when it comes out of the oven? It shrink inside the shape. Same thing happen to the earth.
The continents are drifting, because the tectonic plates are floating on the magma.
Yeah I agree, as I states this before to, however I do not think this temperature drop is enough to make significant differences in size.
Good thing we have global warming to slow that cooling off process down :p:p:p
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Science101
09-19-2007, 07:41 PM
Originally Posted by Malaikah
That is interesting!

And it isn't a joke: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expanding_earth_theory

What I want to know is WHERE DID ALL THE WATER COME FROM?!
The first paragraph explains that it is not taken seriously by scientists:

The Expanding earth theory is an attempt to explain the position and movement of continents on the surface of the Earth. It has a relatively small following today, compared with the almost universally accepted theory of plate tectonics, and is considered to be discredited by mainstream geologists.
The water may have come from comets. They are like giant snowballs.
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Science101
09-19-2007, 07:49 PM
Originally Posted by Isambard
Spoiler Alert!

This isnt a real theory.....
I posted it because its a joke...
That will teach you! :giggling:
Reply

Malaikah
09-20-2007, 03:30 AM
Originally Posted by Science101
The first paragraph explains that it is not taken seriously by scientists:
But it isn't a joke then:
Samuel Warren Carey AO (* November 1, 1911 in Campbelltown; † March 20, 2002 in Hobart) was an Australian geologist who was an early advocate of the theory of continental drift. His work on plate tectonics reconstructions led him to develop the theory of the expanding earth.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samuel_Warren_Carey

And:

Very few geologists or geophysicists today support the expanded Earth.[1] Many of those that remain are proponents of the ideas of the late Australian geologist S. Warren Carey. While Carey's ideas were popular for a time in the 1950s and 1960s, most workers in earth science believe that evidence collected over the last several decades supports a fixed size Earth, due to subduction, over the expanded Earth.[attribution needed]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expanding_earth_theory
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Science101
09-20-2007, 04:27 AM
Here's the key:

While Carey's ideas were popular for a time in the 1950s and 1960s, most workers in earth science believe that evidence collected over the last several decades supports a fixed size Earth, due to subduction, over the expanded Earth.
Subduction happens on the other side of the plate. Or in other words, the plate moves sideways. At the mid ocean ridge the plate is added to, like this.



On the other side of the plate, it slides under another back into the earth.



Scientists have already deduced what happened to the single continent that once existed called Pangea. Notice that the planet is not growing in size, the plates are moving:



Is more info here:

http://www.moorlandschool.co.uk/earth/tectonic.htm

The expanding Earth theory was proven to be wrong.
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Malaikah
09-20-2007, 09:56 AM
No, I don't think so. The key is that MOST think the expanding earth theory is wrong. Which means it is not a joke, rather a real theory, even if it is unpopular.
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Science101
09-20-2007, 11:47 AM
I guess. But there are people who still believe that the earth is flat, humans rode on dinosaurs, and meat grew on trees, so it is still silly to believe them.
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Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн
09-20-2007, 04:45 PM
Science is always changing...we'll see how this theory runs along. Even my professor admitted that the information we get is the truth for that certain time and may not be later on. So lets see yea? :D
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Isambard
09-20-2007, 04:47 PM
Originally Posted by Jazzy
Science is always changing...we'll see how this theory runs along. Even my professor admitted. The information we get is the truth for that certain time and may not be later on. So lets see yea? :D
Geology and plate tectonics arnt exactly new fields. There are some holes left to be filled, the the majority of the info points really strongly that whats in the video is BS.
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Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн
09-20-2007, 04:48 PM
I stand by what I said :D
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Science101
09-20-2007, 05:37 PM
All new information that has been found, only supports plate tectonic theory. The expanding earth model really is now on par with the flat-earth model. But maybe someday someone will prove that the earth is really flat. The earth being round is after all, just a scientific theory too...
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Science101
09-20-2007, 06:42 PM
I must add that you are right in a way because there are theories with little empirical evidence. These can go either way, such as "String Theory".

Then there are quack theories that are not even scientific, such as "Intelligent Design Theory". All that was in that theory that was claimed to be scientific was overwhelmingly proven to be false but the Christians who back it for political reasons still find people that will believe it's a real theory.

But since the 1950's scientists have gone from not knowing what is under the ocean and in subduction zones like California, to having instruments that allow them to measure the plate movement. And there is a wealth of evidence in geology showing how the pieces once fit together to become the supercontinent of Pangea. Dinosaur fossils record a time when they could walk from Massachusetts to North Africa then the route became ocean, evolution then records their diverging into separate species.

The modern plate tectonic theory is too well supported to go either way. Verifying that there are subduction zones and places continents crashed together to form mountain ranges ended the thinking that the plates were spreading in all directions like they would if the planet was swelling.
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Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн
09-20-2007, 09:54 PM
Originally Posted by Science101
All new information that has been found, only supports plate tectonic theory. The expanding earth model really is now on par with the flat-earth model. But maybe someday someone will prove that the earth is really flat. The earth being round is after all, just a scientific theory too...
Dunno where you got that from, in my post. I really did just make a simple statement :) I never agreed nor disagreed with any of that.

Peace to you.
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Science101
09-21-2007, 01:48 AM
Excellent!

In either case, I thought it would be beneficial to elaborate on the point you brought up about theories for those who might not know much about them. You probably know how some people think they are just a guess (much like a "hypothesis"), when in fact they are actually the best explanation science has for something. And unlike "laws" that are easily stated in a few sentences or a formula, theories are just a mass of information science knows about something that can be added to and tweaked as science discovers more about it. Even in the worst case scenario like discovering that there is some slight swelling of the earth (might tend to shrink as it cools though) plate tectonic theory would never be replaced, just have that new info become a part of it.

And there I go again! Once I get started on a topic I am passionate about, I could go on forever! :heated:
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Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн
09-21-2007, 05:01 PM
Lol, I know what you mean. I happen to love science :D That's my field. Not specifically this topic but still science.

Peace
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Chuck
09-22-2007, 09:58 AM
Originally Posted by Woodrow
The Day that We roll up the heavens like a scroll rolled up for books (completed)
That verse gives me the idea that universe is essentially flat
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Woodrow
09-22-2007, 02:42 PM
Originally Posted by Chuck
That verse gives me the idea that universe is essentially flat
:w:

Oddly that concept fits in with the mathematics of topology. A topographical projection of the universe results in a circle that is infinitely large in diameter, but infinitely thin in thickness.

The answer is from what relationship to the universe are you viewing it. If you are a small finite creature living within the universe it is a sphere with an infinite radius. If you are an infinitely large Being viewing it from an infinite distance it could a flat circle.
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Chuck
11-22-2007, 09:59 PM
I think we can have another model of the fate of the universe. Most widely believed are big crunch or expansion forever, but it is possible that universe may roll back on itself like scroll rolls back. I see mathematical possibility with shape of the universe being flat.
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SophiaCroft
11-24-2007, 06:52 PM
Wow! Jazakallah! I just love Geography!
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sadia faisal
12-05-2007, 03:59 PM
Wow, interesting, gna look that up!
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ranma1/2
12-05-2007, 04:46 PM
Originally Posted by Woodrow
:w:

Just a thought. I seem to recall that somewhere in the Qur'an we are told the universe is expnding. If the universe is expanding, and since we are part of the universe, isn't it logical that the earth is expanding?

Now if I can find the ayyats that refer to the universe expanding.
it would also make sense that we ourselves are expanding. This is evident around the 4th thursday of Novemeber, and the 25th of decemeber.
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Woodrow
12-05-2007, 06:14 PM
Originally Posted by ranma1/2
it would also make sense that we ourselves are expanding. This is evident around the 4th thursday of Novemeber, and the 25th of decemeber.
For some reason us Muslims seem to be exempt from that phenomenon, but we are very much aware of some of the great price shrinkages in the stores immediately after that time frame ends.
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