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glo
10-07-2007, 06:58 PM
Hi all!

I have pondered since yesterday whether I should write this post or not. Finally I have decide that I should - just to hear what advice/suggestions I will get.

Here's the story:
I went into the local Islamic shop yesterday to buy an Eid card. The only people in the shop were two Muslim lads, who are working there. Both in traditional Muslim clothing, including the prayer cap, both very polite and helpful.
I found a card I liked, and they proceeded to do their best to sell me some Eid gifts too - very promising business men! :D
They told me that they were 14 and 15 (I asked about their age because the boys I am looking for gifts for are 10 and 12).
The older one showed me some Islamic children's books and a collection of Hadiths in Urdu.
I paid and left the shop to make some purchases in the Christian bookshop just three doors away.

Within minutes of me leaving the Islamic shop, I saw one of the two Muslim lads leave and make a beeline for the newsagent across the road. When I popped in there myself just moments later, I found him looking at, let's call them 'top-shelf magazines of an adult content'.
I must admit that I was take a bit aback.
Minutes earlier this young lad had shown me the hadiths, now he was looking at topless models!

Two things crossed my mind:
Firstly, this young man was easily identifyable as a Muslim by his clothing alone. Does this, and the fact that he works in an Islamic shop, give him added responsibility to represent the Ummah in a suitable manner?

Secondly, I was somewhat concerned about the very short amount of time that had lapsed between me leaving the shop and him going into the newsagent, and - I may just be paranoid here - but I couldn't help feeling that my presence may have somehow prompted his action ...
I would hate to think that I have that effect on any man (other than my husband), let alone a lad young enough to be my son!
(I would like to add that I was wearing loose clothing, long sleeves and long jacket, and had my hair tied back, and was in no way provocatively dressed)

I have spoken to my husband about this, and he didn't think it was a big deal. As far as he is concerned, this is what teenage boys do ... and he thinks me having been in the shop just previously was probably just a coincidence.

I must say, that there was a moment when I wanted to tap the young lad on the shoulder and say "So what do the Hadiths say about this then??!" - but I didn't think it was my role or right to do so ... and I certainly did not want to embarrass him!
So I let it go.

Should I have done or said something?
What do you think?
Reply

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Grace Seeker
10-08-2007, 02:28 AM
Glo, what would you have thought and done if the order of the shops you visited had been reversed? What if you had gone into the Christian bookstore first, there been waited on by some teenage boys and when you went down the street to the Islamic shop happened to see one of those "Christian" young men looking at the same magazines?

I think that your husband is right, if probably has nothing to do with your presence in the store, and everything to do with the hormones that run through young (and even older) men. But, would you have walked over and said anything to them about what the Bible verses they might have just shared with you had to say about what they were doing? I wasn't there so I can't say what you should have done, but I know that sometimes I do speak up and sometimes I don't. For me, it depends on whether or not I feel that I have enough of a connection with the individual to gain a hearing? Or do I think that I would just be dismissed as a busybody? Maybe I shouldn't worry about that, and maybe I should go ahead and speak up everytime. But, I don't think the issue has to do with the fact that the young men were Muslim, as much as you know that the behavior was contrary to the principles they were indirectly espousing just moments before. If it had been me, I would have hated you for pointing out the incongruity between my beliefs and my practice, but in the long run if I was sincere about my faith I would have appreciated it as you were really looking out for me in the process. Of course, not everyone who works in a religious bookstore (be it Islamic or Christian) or attends a mosque or a church is in fact sincere about their beliefs, and such persons would probably just tell you to bug off and mind your own business. In my mind, that is less your problem than theirs.
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north_malaysian
10-08-2007, 02:37 AM
talking about teenage boys....
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snakelegs
10-08-2007, 03:23 AM
i agree with your husband. not a big deal, and nothing to do with you.
as a non-muslim, i certainly don't think it was your place to say anything to him!
let god be god (leave the judgment up to him).
i think religious teenage boys are often in conflict between the demands of their religion and the demands of their hormones.
surely you have observed christians after church saying things that are quite "un-christian"?
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Malaikah
10-08-2007, 05:08 AM
:sl:

What kind of irresponsible newsagent has these kinds of magazines just lying around where under-aged boys can look at them?:raging:

I don't know if you should have said anything- maybe you should have told the guy who runs the newsagent to do something about it. :? (As far as I know, don't they have some kind of responsibility too?)
Reply

glo
10-08-2007, 06:07 AM
Grace Seeker, I think if it had been a Christian boy I would have felt very much the same. However, whether he was Christian or not may not have been so immediately obvious, as it was with this young Muslim lad.
If it had been a Christian boy I would have been more likely to raise the topic in a Christian forum though.

Snakelegs, of course I witness Christians acting un-Christ-like. Only all the time. And I include myself in that.
I hope you know that my intention in my OP was not to point the finger of blame at a young Muslim man, or even question his sincerity in faith.
My question was to do with my own reaction to the situation. I felt quite unnerved, and perhaps even a little vulnerable.

Malaikah, here in the UK it is very common to have adult magazines on the shelves - in shops run by non-Muslims and by Muslims alike. Usually on the top shelf to be out of reach and sight of small children - but not high enough to be out of reach of a lanky 14 or 15-year-old.

Thanks for your thoughts and comments. :)
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Pk_#2
10-08-2007, 06:41 AM
:o I think it's normal, but Astaghfirullah, May Allah (subhana wa ta'ala)help the ummah :o| were they fasting :X nevermind, maybe he accidently looked :( don't judge the other bro though sis, he may be completely different to him inshaAllah a wayy better bruv :D Peace wub
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IbnAbdulHakim
10-08-2007, 09:17 AM
are you 299.99.9% sure he was checking out the nasty?

wat if he was looking at the spider hanging above the magazines? :X
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rozeena
10-08-2007, 09:30 AM
if u had posted dis couple weeks bak i wudnt have believed sum1 in a islamic shop behaving in that way. bt cam across similar incident last week bt slightly differnt:X
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IbnAbdulHakim
10-08-2007, 09:34 AM
maybe its because their young... i hope these brothers get married soon :(
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Ibn Al Aqwa
10-08-2007, 09:39 AM
yeh, trust me

i know because im with people like this....all day long....to me this is no surprise....

people were topee, jabbah...and sometimes even a turban...but when you get to know them a bit more, they will give you a little shock...May Allah guide them (im talking of teenagers here)
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IbnAbdulHakim
10-08-2007, 09:43 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by -Ibn Adam-
yeh, trust me

i know because im with people like this....all day long....to me this is no surprise....

people were topee, jabbah...and sometimes even a turban...but when you get to know them a bit more, they will give you a little shock...May Allah guide them (im talking of teenagers here)
what i think it could be is that they get involved with religious boys and dislike looking bad in front of them. the taqwa and emaan may not be present as of yet Audhubillah.

i think as the boys grow up though it is very likely they will obtain hidayaah due to their surroundings, may Allah make what i say true Ameen (about the hidayaah)
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Ibn Al Aqwa
10-08-2007, 09:49 AM
^about the hidaayah, i think that is true, they often grow to islam

but im not to clear on what you mean, in the first sentence...?
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rozeena
10-08-2007, 09:50 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by IbnAbdulHakim
maybe its because their young... i hope these brothers get married soon :(
ermm. wat if their already married? wt would ur advice b 2 dese men?
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Pk_#2
10-08-2007, 09:56 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by -Ibn Adam-
^about the hidaayah, i think that is true, they often grow to islam

but im not to clear on what you mean, in the first sentence...?
They hang around with 'good lads' an don't wana look bad infront of them so they 'dress' the part, and act good while with them, but when they're gone they are someone else. :hmm:?

Ameen to the dua's,

Yeah sis Rozeena, maybe fasting, menno help with desires n all.
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shible
10-08-2007, 10:04 AM
People don't tend to do that just because they see it on the racks or due to their age as main reason.

It all depends on the way they grew up. the society with which they mingle during their teenage.

each and every one who grews up between different society will face these kind of disturbances
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IbnAbdulHakim
10-08-2007, 10:10 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by rozeena
ermm. wat if their already married? wt would ur advice b 2 dese men?
they wudnt hav these problems inshaAllah if their married because their wives will help subside such desires inshaAllah.

Our prophet sallallahi alaihi wasallaam told the young to marry as early as it is possible for them... for this very reason !
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Intisar
10-08-2007, 11:13 AM
Hello glo,

As far as I'm concerned there's nothing that you could have really done. Allah will deal with them justly, and for them to look at such dirty things that Allah has prohibited is just so disgusting. Had you said anything they wouldn't have listened anyway; they'd probably tell you to bug off since you're not Muslim ya know. :hmm:
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Malaikah
10-08-2007, 12:15 PM
:sl:

^Let's try to be a bit more sympathetic :)... they are very young, 14-15, they probably just hit puberty and have such easy access to haram things... for all we know that might have been the first time he has ever opened such a magazine.

None amongst us is sinless. Maybe Allah guide him.
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syilla
10-08-2007, 12:31 PM
:salamext:

hi glo...i think if you ask them politely if their a muslim and saying to them i don't think muslim teach this am i right?

i'm sure they are embarassed and quickly run away.
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aamirsaab
10-08-2007, 12:44 PM
:sl:
In Islam we have this thing called 70 excuses, preventing us from making irrational judgements. That being said, I do readily admit that there are misguided muslims, some that can be identified solely by their clothings and others via their words - mainly because I have seen it in complete context myself. Unless of course, that brother wasn't hugging the girl and she was simply grabbing a kleenex from his back pocket....

People are responsible for their own actions and will be held accountable for them.
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S_87
10-08-2007, 12:50 PM
Peace

i would have tapped them, not only that i would have told them that as muslim boys dressed distinctively they have a duty :rant:
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Re.TiReD
10-08-2007, 12:50 PM
SubhanAllah! As Muslims we are required to control any forbidden desires we may have, but at the end of the day, we're all blank slates, none of us was born with the knowledge and the ability to differenciate between right and wrong. That knowledge comes with time, education and practice only. So maybe these boys were confused, about themselves and their religion? Only Allah knows the true condition of their hearts but May He guide them. Ameen
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Kittygyal
10-08-2007, 01:14 PM
Greetings again Glo :),

I truley understand what ya mean these things do happen A LOT!..
To begin i shall tell you a little story what happened when i took my two dogs for a walk in park, I was actually shocked after seeing young muslim men some smoking and some just dossing around. There were group of dudes and there were two young muslim men with a short light beard who actually had the nerve to ask me how i was and then ask to me have a smoke with them!
One was wearing the muslim modest gown (don't know what you call it) and underneath tracksuit bottoms.
I was actually well shocked seeing a muslim man who had a beard wearing modest clothes and then actually talking to me!.. If i got this correct im sure muslim men should always lower there gaze for the matter of fact we should all! :hmm:

Subhan'Allaah it actually truley shows there doing this for the fun of it!.. Nowadays we see young muslim men at tarave'h time they be dossing around smoking and what not! They don't realise this life is a test!

Anywho to your issue about them two young men in islamic shop maybe cause there young they might just wear the modest clothes cause fathers there or something.. or maybe just representing them selfs as there in an ''islamic'' shop.. I dunno to behonest.. Maybe im wrong or maybe im right..

Anywho... God forgive them and lead them to right path! Amin
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syilla
10-08-2007, 01:18 PM
^^^if you come to Malaysia...most of the man here gaze at beautiful woman :hmm: They say it is not a sin but a 'gift' :blind:

and also here in Malaysia the pornography in the net is not banned or blocked...so they can easily browse it :-\
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Kittygyal
10-08-2007, 01:23 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by syilla
^^^if you come to Malaysia...most of the man here gaze at beautiful woman :hmm: They say it is not a sin but a 'gift' :blind:

and also here in Malaysia the pornography in the net is not banned or blocked...so they can easily browse it :-\
:sl:

:scared:

WOW!! ASTAGFIRULLAH!!

Im not going to say much but all im going to say is im scared!
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Intisar
10-08-2007, 05:40 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Malaikah
:sl:

^Let's try to be a bit more sympathetic :)... they are very young, 14-15, they probably just hit puberty and have such easy access to haram things... for all we know that might have been the first time he has ever opened such a magazine.

None amongst us is sinless. Maybe Allah guide him.
:w: Perhaps sis, but that's just how I view it. Ameen to your dua though. :)
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Umm Yoosuf
10-09-2007, 05:46 AM
Greetings,

Just because you see a Muslim wearing the full Islamic clothening does not mean they are perfect and free of sin. Everyone sins. Of course what he did is forbiden in Islaam.
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muthenna
10-09-2007, 03:43 PM
This is a problem with some of the unmarried muslim men, its a problem, some even did make zina, IM not talkning about the majority, but this is a problem, for men at least.
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AnonymousPoster
10-09-2007, 04:27 PM
i actually looked through the history and found that someone i trusted was looking at porn on the internet. it was a guy. how pathetic. honestly.
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------
10-09-2007, 04:28 PM
This is a problem with some of the unmarried muslim men, its a problem, some even did make zina, IM not talkning about the majority, but this is a problem, for men at least.
:salamext:

Yeh, I think women find it somewhat easier to control their 'desires'.
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ISLAMASWEENEY
10-09-2007, 04:29 PM
Wereabouts In Uk Was This Brother .
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Kittygyal
10-09-2007, 04:36 PM
Salamualikum.
^ That question so does not need an answer because it doesn't matter.. All that matter is the muslim man indeed did something wrong which is forbidden in islam!

May God guide them amin
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ISLAMASWEENEY
10-09-2007, 04:38 PM
Yes It Dosent Matter.
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Al-Zaara
10-09-2007, 04:52 PM
Hallo Glo,

Not much one can do... Especially as you are a non-Muslim. Maybe they would have reacted in a good way, but better safe than sorry - Allah knows best. They could have grown attitude against non-Muslims or something else not so good..

I would just have made a little prayer that they'd be guided, inshaAllah (if God so wills).
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ISLAMASWEENEY
10-09-2007, 04:53 PM
Finland a good country hello sister.
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IbnAbdulHakim
10-11-2007, 10:35 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Muj4h1d4
:salamext:

Yeh, I think women find it somewhat easier to control their 'desires'.
nope, women just have different desires.

Allah created men and women different
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Medina83
10-11-2007, 11:11 PM
Let us all remember the hadith:

"Whoever of you sees wrong being committed, let him change it with his hand (i.e. by force). If he is unable to do that, then with his tongue, and if he is unable to do that, then with his heart.

And enjoin all that is right, and forbid all that is wrong, and be patient in the face of that which afflicts you, verily, that is the most upright of positions.Qur'an 31/17.


Three things are absolutely essential when you want to enjoin right and forbid wrong: knowledge, compassion, and patience. Knowledge is required before enjoining right and forbidding wrong, compassion is required during its practice, and patience is required after it.

I understand Glo how you must have felt vulnerable and I think its a great thing that if the boys were in some way stimulated by you , that you are uncomfortable with this. How many girls in todays society would be secretly proud and pleased with themselves that they managed to have such an effect. You just got kudos in my opinion.

If it was a separate incident, then who knows why did it. Allahu ahlam. Maybe he had been fighting the urge for ages and who said he bought one? At the end of it, if he managed to avoid buying one and turned away from the shelf, then he also stopped himself doing a bad deed..which is itself a good deed.

Personally it frustrates me so much when I see clearly identifiable Muslims acting in ways which are clearly not Islamic. I have sympathy for such people but it also causes me to be embarrassed. I also do such things myself estaghfirullah and i do believe it brings shame on the Ummah. I often feel shame for the things I did because I know its making Muslims look bad.
It also makes Muslims have to defend Islam and my practise of it more strongly. For example, my family always put examples of muslims not wearing hijab in front of me and ask me why I have to be so strict about it when clearly there are thousands of muslims not wearing it. Or having girlfriends is another one. They often say 'such people are not practising'. My only response can be we all sin different ways and do Christians always practise their faith exceptionally well? And of course not to judge Islam by the Muslims.

One particular thing that frustrated me in the past was on a trip to London I visited Edgeware Road, a big Arabic (and therefore Muslim) population is there and its very like being in Luxor to me. However along the road are various phone boxes and in such glass phone boxes are clearly visible business cards of naked women (head to foot) in provocative positions. Hundreds of them sellotaped beside the phone. I said 'why do the Muslims who live here not remove them?' . I still dont know why not and i try to think of all kinds of reasons.

If I was doing something wrong and some Muslim tapped me on the shoulder and reminded me gently or even harshly, I think I would feel defensive and react a bit badly. But I would be happy later because that person helped me to stay away from sin and I would fear doing such a thing again.

In saying that many muslims react really badly to any words of reminder, and feel that the person is condescending and patronising and judging them. Its hard to know what to do. I myself often feel bad that I didnt remind someone gently of something.

I think the sahaba would have reminded each other but they also had high enough iman to take it and be grateful about it. Not sure we have that today.

But fair dues to you Glo for the desire to say something, I hope God rewards you at least for that inshaAllah.

salam
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snakelegs
10-11-2007, 11:48 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Al-Mu'minah
Greetings,

Just because you see a Muslim wearing the full Islamic clothening does not mean they are perfect and free of sin. Everyone sins. Of course what he did is forbiden in Islaam.
i agree. we are all humans - no saints anywhere in sight.
we all do wrong things, even when we know that they are wrong. fortunately, god is merciful.
teen-age boys are somewhat at the mercy of their hormones.
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Md Mashud
10-11-2007, 11:48 PM
Hmm, theres an old saying - Boys will be boys :skeleton: ...

You are right though, they definatly should better represent - as they are in the public view - and in Islam, public misrepresentation is HEAVILY detested - You was right, that you not being a muslim elder commenting was not well suited. I guess if their was some though, they probably will do so and would have the right :)!
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ummzayd
10-28-2007, 12:26 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Medina83
One particular thing that frustrated me in the past was on a trip to London I visited Edgeware Road, a big Arabic (and therefore Muslim) population is there and its very like being in Luxor to me. However along the road are various phone boxes and in such glass phone boxes are clearly visible business cards of naked women (head to foot) in provocative positions. Hundreds of them sellotaped beside the phone. I said 'why do the Muslims who live here not remove them?' . I still dont know why not and i try to think of all kinds of reasons.
salam
:sl:

I know this is an old thread but I just wanted to respond because I live in this area, and in fact used to always take cards like this out of phone boxes BUT literally within the hour they are replaced! and once I was waiting for the phone box with my little son and the man inside was putting up cards. when he came out I told him 'I'm not happy that my son has to see that filth' and he became very aggressive and abusive, so much so that I was actually afraid he was going to hit me.

the ppl who put these cards in boxes are paid megabucks believe it or not. it is a very lucrative trade.

em - so that it's not completely off topic I would just say that I it must have been a very upsetting for glo, and if I had been in her shoes I would also have been tempted to tap him on the shoulder and shame him. whether I would actually have done it I don't know.

:w:
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