Are you God's Friend?

[Walter]

Hi Everyone:

Jewish, Christian, and Islamic religious traditions can be learnt and practised without thinking. Prayers can be recited without understanding and without expecting an answer. People can claim a belief in God, but their behaviour can reveal that they do not believe that He can act.

This is not how faith starts. But it is where faith can end. Faith starts with a doubtless belief in God’s ability to act. Then something happens in the intervening years that either reinforces this faith or contaminates it with doubt.

The fact is that God is Almighty, and He desires a personal relationship with each of us. It is the faith of Abraham that Jews, Christians and Muslims are directed to imitate. It is imitated by cultivating a friendship with God, which can eliminate all doubts about His ability. If you are on God’s side, all things are possible.

If you have the faith of Abraham, then all who share this faith are brothers and sisters.

Regards,
Grenville

[Woodrow]

Thread Approved

[sevgi]

Hi Everyone:

Jewish, Christian, and Islamic religious traditions can be learnt and practised without thinking. Prayers can be recited without understanding and without expecting an answer. People can claim a belief in God, but their behaviour can reveal that they do not believe that He can act.

This is not how faith starts. But it is where faith can end. Faith starts with a doubtless belief in God’s ability to act. Then something happens in the intervening years that either reinforces this faith or contaminates it with doubt.

The fact is that God is Almighty, and He desires a personal relationship with each of us. It is the faith of Abraham that Jews, Christians and Muslims are directed to imitate. It is imitated by cultivating a friendship with God, which can eliminate all doubts about His ability. If you are on God’s side, all things are possible.

If you have the faith of Abraham, then all who share this faith are brothers and sisters.

Regards,
Grenville

peace be upon u grenville.

what an absolutely beautiful thread.

in one of my recent interfaith panel thingys..the topic was monotheism.we got into God and what he is.

we, with our christian partners in interfaith, decided that God is a frend.

during the panel, i was asked a wonderful question much like this one.the president of the Christian Students Uniting at my uni asked, for muslims, what it is that allows us to live God, how we know he intervenes in our lives.

he expressed the idea that he can feel the Holy spirit while he is praying, and that it is essentially the Holy spirit which puts the words in his mouth and makes em come out the way they do.

as hard as this was for me to grasp, i was obliged to reply. i realised as i answered that the Holy Spirit is part of God.muslims do not seperate God into three, we do believe in the same attributes...

God is a frend.he guides us even when we arent aware of it.if we can come to the realisation that everything is created by him...for us...everything we trod on, everything we touch,,,if we cud just look at them, trod on them conscious of this, we will be more alert of his connection and intervention with us.we will be much closer frends.

and we'd actually thank him for everything...

i dnt know how on topic that was.it was just..something.

peace.
May God always walk before u..and all of us.

[KAding]

Good attempt at helping to bring the big religions closer together! Yet, I somehow I feel excluded :giggling:.

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[sevgi]

Good attempt at helping to bring the big religions closer together! Yet, I somehow I feel excluded :giggling:.

im sure uve got something that u care most about...maybe u cud relate to that...

like..when ur all alone...and upset...and noone to turn to..isnt there a force..if not something, a thought, a place... which makes u feel better?

[IbnAbdulHakim]

The fact is that God is Almighty, and He desires a personal relationship with each of us. It is the faith of Abraham that Jews, Christians and Muslims are directed to imitate. If you have the faith of Abraham, then all who share this faith are brothers and sisters.

Regards,
Grenville

Peace,

i enjoyed that part, Grenville please let us know your views on the abrahamic faith.

Surely its monotheism at its strongest, but what do you think the abrahamic faith promotes?

[Woodrow]

Peace to all,

Friendship has many connotations. Not all would be appropriate to describe a relationship with God(swt). As a Muslim I see myself as a servant of Allaah(swt), in that sense the connotation of friendship that applies is not an equality, but rather a love for my master, with the understanding my master is also my protector.

[IbnAbdulHakim]

Peace to all,

Friendship has many connotations. Not all would be appropriate to describe a relationship with God(swt). As a Muslim I see myself as a servant of Allaah(swt), in that sense the connotation of friendship that applies is not an equality, but rather a love for my master, with the understanding my master is also my protector.

my respected sheikh, Allah does indeed take friends though right?

But befriending the almighty isnt simple...

[Woodrow]

my respected sheikh, Allah does indeed take friends though right?

But befriending the almighty isnt simple...

I agree. But, remember I am not a scholar. These are simply my own opinions and like all opinions can be wrong. Astragfirullah. All too often the concept of friendship denotes equality. We can never be the type of friend to Allaah(swt) as he is to us. so our relationship, is more closely to that of parent/child than being that of peer/peer.

[Walter]

Thankkx Woodrow.

You are on-topic Sumeyye, and to acknowledge the Holy Spirit, but to choose not to see Him as separate from God is revelatory and instructive (certainly instructive for me).

Hi KAding. You are not far from the Kingdom of God. God Himself will draw you to Himself, and you will recognize it. When it happens, just submit to Him and get ready for a new life – Jesus described it as being born all over again.

Hi IbnAbdulHakim:

I believe that the Abrahamic faith promotes a belief and trust in God to the point of obedience.

Many claim to believe, but they do not seem to believe that God can act so they live their lives accordingly. Others claim to believe and trust, but when they are tested with a choice, they chose a way that they have designed for themselves or that others have designed for them, rather than demonstrating their trust and going God’s way.

Then they are those who not only claim to believe and trust, but trust enough to obey. They trust, while acknowledging any doubts that the enormity of their circumstance may have had on their belief, yet they choose to obey. To obey God, regardless of the present circumstances or their logical forecast (especially if it is grim), is to have the faith of Abraham. Such faith grows as a friendship with God as a heavenly Father is cultivated. This friendship matures into love, where we truly love God.

Regards,
Grenville

[IbnAbdulHakim]

Hi IbnAbdulHakim:

I believe that the Abrahamic faith promotes a belief and trust in God to the point of obedience.

I agree with this statement. But i wonder what do you know about the man and messenger, Abraham? How he chose to worship, how he differed with his people etc. He was a man sincerely searching for the truth, so God guided him, but if you look at his actions after guidance then a strong realisation will take place..

Many claim to believe, but they do not seem to believe that God can act so they live their lives accordingly.

If you mean they dont believe that God can make a difference to the outcome after their death, or whilst they live, then i agree.

Others claim to believe and trust, but when they are tested with a choice, they chose a way that they have designed for themselves or that others have designed for them, rather than demonstrating their trust and going God’s way.

I completely agree with this, we should act in obedience with our creator following the divine instructions he has sent with his messengers.

Then they are those who not only claim to believe and trust, but trust enough to obey.

these are the true believers, this is what Abraham did, he trusted and when commanded to sacrifice his son, he obeyed ! This is true submission, this is the path to paradise.

They trust, while acknowledging any doubts that the enormity of their circumstance may have had on their belief, yet they choose to obey. To obey God, regardless of the present circumstances or their logical forecast (especially if it is grim), is to have the faith of Abraham. Such faith grows as a friendship with God as a heavenly Father is cultivated. This friendship matures into love, where we truly love God.

Regards,
Grenville

Indeed a strong belief ripens within them that their obedience to God in all sincerity will lead them to the truth, and in turn to paradise. Disobedience only plunges them further into sin, and further away from the truth.

We all have sense, this sense is given by our creator, it dictates that we do good, and when we do evil we feel a stinging or smiting within ourselves.


I hope you and us all find guidance to paradise Glen.

And my wish is for you to see the beautiful monotheism of islam :)

its a pleasure to converse with you.

[Walter]

Hi IbnAbdulHakim:

Indeed a strong belief ripens within them that their obedience to God in all sincerity will lead them to the truth, and in turn to paradise. Disobedience only plunges them further into sin, and further away from the truth.

We all have sense, this sense is given by our creator, it dictates that we do good, and when we do evil we feel a stinging or smiting within ourselves.

You are correct. Our conscience affirms our good actions and convicts us when we do wrong. As we continue to grow, we can be convicted for not only consciously doing wrong, but failing to do good when we have the opportunity to do so. Our conscience can facilitate a relationship with God, for when we feel convicted, it seems that our fellowship with God is broken. A responsible response would then be to submit to God, confess our short comings, determine to do better, and return to an intimate fellowship with God.

Believe me IbnAbdulHakim, I do see the “beautiful monotheism of Islam”, for Abraham rejected the polytheism of his community and chose to obey the only God who is the Creator of us all. Mohammed also rejected the polytheism of his community, sought the God of Abraham, and provided us with the Qu’ran. No-one can fail to see the beauty in the verses that extol the majesty of the one and only God.

Christians also acknowledge the God of Abraham, and they are instructed to know Him not only as the God of Abraham, but also as their loving Heavenly Father. The Messiah Jesus came to make this possible. Jesus said “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.” Mohammed acknowledged Jesus, not only as a Prophet, but as the Messiah.

Regards,
Grenville

[Keltoi]

Perhaps a better way to describe this "friendship" with God is simply to say a "relationship" with God. I believe that God does indeed seek out this relationship with His creation.

[MustafaMc]

Perhaps a better way to describe this "friendship" with God is simply to say a "relationship" with God. I believe that God does indeed seek out this relationship with His creation.

I agree. All of creation submits to the Will of Allah according to their very nature - except for mankind and jinn who have individual will to either obey or to disobey Allah. Our proper relationship with Allah should be one of humble servant before his Lord and Master.

[MustafaMc]

If you have the faith of Abraham, then all who share this faith are brothers and sisters.

Is the Christian faith in the Father, Son and Holy Spirit qualitatively the same as the faith that Abraham had in his Creator? Though my faith is quantitatively much less that that of Abraham, I believe that qualitatively my faith in Allah is the same as that of Abraham in the same One God.

In Islam we believe in three classes of people on the Day of Judgement. Quran 56:7-12 Then you shall be divided into three groups: those on the right hand - how blessed shall be the people of the right hand; those on the left hand - how dam*ed shall be the people of the left hand; and foremost shall be the foremost. They will be nearest to Allah, in the gardens of bliss.

Abraham is known as the friend of Allah. Quran 4:125 Who has a better Deen (way of life or religion) than the one who is a Muslim (submits himself entirely) to Allah, does good to others and follows the faith of Ibrahim (Abraham) the upright one, whom Allah chose to be His friend?

We believe that the prophets (such as Ibrahim) are among those brought near to Allah with the supreme level of reward. Knowing my personal limitations and characteristics, I have no hope to become a "friend of Allah". My highest hope is to have been judged merely as an humble servant of Allah with more good deeds than bad deeds on that fateful Day and to receive my book in my right hand - Insha'Allah.

[MustafaMc]

.... However, in another sense of the word, I do consider myself a friend of Allah since I don't consider Him to be my enemy and I don't consider Satan to be my friend.

Quran 10:62-64 Be aware! The friend of Allah has nothing to fear or to regret. Those who believe and (constantly) guard against evil, for them there is good news in this life and in the hereafter - Allah's Words do not change - this is indeed the mighty achievement.

[InToTheRain]

[PIE]Hadith Qudsi 25:
On the authority of Abu Hurayrah (may Allah be pleased with him), who said that the Messenger of Allah (PBUH) said: Allah (mighty and sublime be He) said:
Whosoever shows enmity to someone devoted to Me, I shall be at war with him. My servant draws not near to Me with anything more loved by Me than the religious duties I have enjoined upon him, and My servant continues to draw near to Me with supererogatory works so that I shall love him. When I love him I am his hearing with which he hears, his seeing with which he sees, his hand with which he strikes and his foot with which he walks. Were he to ask [something] of Me, I would surely give it to him, and were he to ask Me for refuge, I would surely grant him it. I do not hesitate about anything as much as I hesitate about [seizing] the soul of My faithful servant: he hates death and I hate hurting him.

It was related by al-Bukhari.
[/PIE]

^ That is what Allah Azza Wa Jal said about his Awliah :'( ALLAH HUAKBAR

[Walter]

Hi MustafaMc:

There are various types of relationship that we can have with God. They are described below.

1. Unbelievers - those who insult God by rejecting the evidence of His creation and ascribing His handiwork to another, will surely be the losers in the hereafter.

2. Partial believers - those who believe that God exists but do not think that He cares. They believe that God is like some cosmic force that has somehow put some universal laws in motion. They can somehow make things happen by tapping unto this force and understanding the laws. They therefore do good to invest in good Karma or some equivalent. They may pray, but without understanding.

3. Believers and partial submitters – those who believe in the God of Abraham, but believe that He only intervenes on behalf of the very devout. They have submitted some of their lives to God, principally to secure a place in heaven. Their relationship with God is based on a fear of hell, and they obey only in the area of their lives that they have submitted to God.

4. Believers and submitters – those who continue to submit every area of their lives to God, including their assets, spending choices, education, employment, family, choice of friends, choice of mate, bodies, future plans, etc. They obey God because they trust in His love and care for them. They pray to Him as their loving Heavenly Father, and trust and obey Him in that role.

Jesus said that God is our Heavenly Father and that He cares for us. Jesus also said that God knows the number of hairs on our heads. He described the Kingdom of God as something within us. As we submit more and more of our lives to God’s rule, what is submitted becomes part of that enlarging Kingdom.

God’s intent for us appears to be, among other things, that we may be His ambassadors, both on the earth and in the hereafter.

Now you asked:

Is the Christian faith in the Father, Son and Holy Spirit qualitatively the same as the faith that Abraham had in his Creator? Though my faith is quantitatively much less that that of Abraham, I believe that qualitatively my faith in Allah is the same as that of Abraham in the same One God.

I believe that the Christian faith in the Father can be qualitatively at least the same as the Abrahamic faith. Our ‘faith in Jesus’ is really a short way of saying our ‘faith in the work of Jesus the Messiah’. It is because of this work that we can have a Father/child type of relationship with God, rather than only a Master/servant type.

Regards,
Grenville

[Amadeus85]

Its hard to say about it but i wouldnt call myself a God's friend.I dont pray, I mean i do it only in my church. i also dont have something called "personal relationship with Christ", but in the same time i must say that i can trust God and He rarely fails me.I can count on Him, but friend is too big word i guess.

[Walter]

Hi Aaron:

We are all at different stages of belief in our relationship with God. However, we should all aim for Jesus’ ideal, and the way to achieve that ideal is described in the both the Bible and the Qu’ran. It starts with a master/servant type of training, with obedience to God and excellent service to each other. You can read Matthew Ch.5 to 7 where Jesus describes what our responses should be during our training.

Regards,
Grenville

[Al-arabi]

there is one thing ..
we can't b god's freinds ..cuz he doesn't need us we r his slaves god says in the holy qura'an (إن كل من في السماوات و الأرض إلا آتي الرحمن عبدا)
that is the ayah nu : 93 from sorat : mariam ..
I think that part is so strong if u wanna read it all u will understand me .....

[namr777]

Grenville, this is most wonderful, what you've said, your heart seems oh so bright and may god keep guiding you ;^)... For Atheists on these forums, i truly am curious on how your destiny will unwind, for you've approached Islam at a very personal level and maybe Allah, will one day open your eyes... Keep on searching and trying to understand....

Mashallah!

[InToTheRain]

:sl:

:ooh:

Allah(SWT) has made Mohammad(SAW) and Ibrahim(AS) His Khalil(intimate friend):

[PIE]Surah An Nisa verse 124:

Ibrahim is Allah's Khalil Allah's statement,

[وَاتَّخَذَ اللَّهُ إِبْرَهِيمَ خَلِيلاً]

(And Allah did take Ibrahim as a Khalil (an intimate friend)!) encourages following Ibrahim Al-Khalil, because he was and still is an Imam whose conduct is followed and imitated. Indeed, Ibrahim reached the ultimate closeness to Allah that the servants seek, for he attained the grade of Khalil, which is the highest grade of love. He acquired all this due to his obedience to His Lord, just as Allah has described him,

[وَإِبْرَهِيمَ الَّذِى وَفَّى ]

(And of Ibrahim, the one who fulfilled),

[وَإِذِ ابْتَلَى إِبْرَهِيمَ رَبُّهُ بِكَلِمَـتٍ فَأَتَمَّهُنَّ]

(And (remember) when the Lord of Ibrahim tried him with (certain) commands, which he fulfilled), and,

[إِنَّ إِبْرَهِيمَ كَانَ أُمَّةً قَـنِتًا لِلَّهِ حَنِيفًا وَلَمْ يَكُ مِنَ الْمُشْرِكِينَ ]

(Verily, Ibrahim was an Ummah, obedient to Allah, a Hanif, and he was not one of the Mushrikin). Al-Bukhari recorded that `Amr bin Maymun said that when Mu`adh came back from Yemen, he led them in the Fajr prayer and recited,

[وَاتَّخَذَ اللَّهُ إِبْرَهِيمَ خَلِيلاً]

(And Allah did take Ibrahim as a Khalil!) One of the men present commented, "Surely, the eye of Ibrahim's mother has been comforted.'' Ibrahim was called Allah's Khalil due to his Lord's great love towards him, on account of the acts of obedience he performed that Allah loves and prefers. We should mention here that in the Two Sahihs, it is recorded that Abu Sa`id Al-Khudri said that when the Messenger of Allah gave them his last speech, he said,

«أَمَّا بَعْدُ، أَيُّهَا النَّاسُ فَلَوْ كُنْتُ مُتَّخِذًا مِنْ أَهْلِ الْأَرْضِ خَلِيلًا، لَاتَّخَذْتُ أَبَا بَكْرِ ابْنَ أَبِي قُحَافَةَ خَلِيلًا، وَلكِنْ صَاحِبُكُمْ خَلِيلُ الله»

(O people! If I were to take a Khalil from the people of the earth, I would have taken Abu Bakr bin Abi Quhafah as my Khalil. However, your companion (meaning himself) is the Khalil of Allah.) Jundub bin `Abdullah Al-Bajali, `Abdullah bin `Amr bin Al-`As and `Abdullah bin Mas`ud narrated that the Prophet said,

«إِنَّ اللهَ اتَّخَذَنِي خَلِيلًا، كَمَا اتَّخَذَ إِبْرَاهِيمَ خَلِيلًا»


(Allah has chosen me as His Khalil, just as He has chosen Ibrahim as His Khalil.) Allah's statement,

[وَللَّهِ مَا فِى السَّمَـوَتِ وَمَا فِى الاٌّرْضِ]

(And to Allah belongs all that is in the heavens and all that is in the earth.) means, everything and everyone are His property, servants and creation, and He has full authority over all of this. There is no one who can avert Allah's decision or question His judgment. He is never asked about what He does due to His might, ability, fairness, wisdom, compassion and mercy. Allah's statement,

[وَكَانَ اللَّهُ بِكُلِّ شَىْءٍ مُّحِيطاً]

(And Allah is Ever Encompassing all things.) means, His knowledge encompasses everything and nothing concerning His servants is ever hidden from Him. Nothing, even the weight of an atom, ever escapes His observation in the heavens and earth, nor anything smaller or bigger than that.[/PIE]

Isn't Abraham given the same status in the Bible?

peace

[barney]

The fact is that God is Almighty, and He desires a personal relationship with each of us.

I acknowlage this is your beleif, but how do you aquire it as a fact?

As to "Am I Gods freind", I would answer no. A freind in my understanding of the word is one that is communicatable with, that takes care of you and tries to help. Also that freindship is a two way street.
Since the assumption of god being omnipresent means he can see everything I go through, why would he not use the omnipotence to help when things go wrong?

[namr777]

All humans have a nature, and that is to be a slave to something.... Some worship or are dependent (in other words) on their work, girlfriends, families, talents etc.... As one searches and iterates through this list, you may realize that all these elements are finite.... Families can break, relationships can end, you could be fired from you job etc. Types of things that destroy many lives, when the person is dependent on it... Yet i realized that the only thing that one can be dependent on without fearing an end for it or anything of that nature, is Allah!

You see, did you wonder why some people (true religious ones) just seem cool at anything, and manage whatever comes to them.... Its that feeling of being under the wing of infinite. No fear of obstacles of life nor death... For you are the creation of Allah, and everyday you thank him (5 times day) some do it even more than that! This process is also therapeutical to one, for it is as if your seeing somebody who advises you (only of course here, it is Allah and it is much more different that a therapist or an agent ;^))....

Hence, to conclude this is why I love being Muslim.... I'm Allah's creation, slave and strive everyday to be his most obedient... Following the principles of Islam, is the perfect life... No sinning, no drinking no loitering... "Good things, are found in the middle of the things" And that is the philosophy of this beautiful religion... And you sense, for as you increase your prayers and love of god... Your aura changes, and that u realize when climbing the bus or entering an area full of strangers, some people just keep looking ( and no i don't have a long beard! :^p).... Anyways, this was just a little insight of what's it like to be a Muslim... (There is so much to it, I've only described the tip of the tip of the tip of the tip of the iceberg ;^))

GoodLuck!
Mashallah!

[Umar001]

Salam Alaykum Guys

he expressed the idea that he can feel the Holy spirit while he is praying, and that it is essentially the Holy spirit which puts the words in his mouth and makes em come out the way they do.

Maybe you should have asked what the Holy Spirit feels like in him. You might realise that this Holy Spirit thing is essentially in you but under a different name.

as hard as this was for me to grasp, i was obliged to reply. i realised as i answered that the Holy Spirit is part of God.muslims do not seperate God into three, we do believe in the same attributes...

Sister, are you saying that their Holy Spirit, the one they believe makes them say that Jesus is Saviour and God etc is Allah?

Personally I think it's very difficult to speak of these things because we all put different understanding to different words, like a Christian's view of belief in Jesus is different to a Muslim's view of the same thing. One will say it, belief in Jesus, means to believe in the death and resurection his divinity etc whilst the other will say it, belief in Jesus, means to believe that he was a prophet and messenger etc.

Both using the same phrases but meaning different things.


I think we should all do what God says, and in general what Jesus says (although his message in detail is not for us),

Allah is my Lord and your Lord. So serve Him. That is the right path.

19:36

[Walter]

Hi Al Arabi:

You wrote:

we can't b god's freinds ..cuz he doesn't need us we r his slaves

You are correct, but being His slave is not the end of the relationship. You are supposed to become a son.

Thank you Namr777:

I believe that Muslims and Christians are brothers and sisters; however, Christian and Islamic traditions have not only kept us apart, but also in an adversarial relationship. Unfortunately, these traditions have chosen to interpret specific verses in the Bible and Qu’ran in a contentious manner, when they can clearly be interpreted in a manner that is harmonious with both Books.

Hi Z.Al Rashid:

Yes, Abraham is given a similar status in the Bible, and it is not unattainable for us.

Hi Barney:

I acknowledge this is your belief, but how do you acquire it as a fact?

How do we know as fact that sedimentary rock is made of sand particles, or that timber is composed of fibres, or that topsoil is composed of clay, or that the sea is salty? We test it. We may make assumptions or we may have opinions, but then we must go further and test them in order to verify or correct our initial assumptions.

Now if I crushed sedimentary rock and reported to you that I found it to be composed of sand, then you could either believe me or disbelieve. However, if you disbelieved, then it would be prudent if you also crushed the rock and determined for yourself what you thought it was composed of. It is only after conducting your test that a debate of each of our results would have any merit. For me to enter into a debate with one who simply refuses to carry out the test would simply provide mirth to those reading our discourse.

King David of Israel encouraged us: “Oh, taste and see that the LORD is good;” and then knowing the result from his personal experience, he declared “Blessed is the man who trusts in Him! “ (Psalms 34:8)

Barney, if you will but submit to God, then you too will know as a fact that God is Almighty and that He desires a personal relationship with you.

Hi Al Habeshi:

Personally I think it's very difficult to speak of these things because we all put different understanding to different words, like a Christian's view of belief in Jesus is different to a Muslim's view of the same thing. One will say it, belief in Jesus, means to believe in the death and resurection his divinity etc whilst the other will say it, belief in Jesus, means to believe that he was a prophet and messenger etc. Both using the same phrases but meaning different things.

Regardless of what the Christian or Islamic traditions teache about Jesus, the Bible and Qu’ran are clear the Jesus is the Messiah. So we can agree that we are referring to the same Jesus.

Regards,
Grenville