PDA

View Full Version : Christmas should be 'downgraded' to help race relations says Labour think tank



Amadeus85
11-01-2007, 11:19 PM
Christmas should be 'downgraded' to help race relations says Labour think tank
By JAMES CHAPMAN -


Christmas should be downgraded in favour of festivals from other religions to improve race relations, says an explosive report.

Labour's favourite think-tank says that because it would be hard to "expunge" Christmas from the national calendar, 'even-handedness' means public organisations must start giving other religions equal footing.

The leaked findings of its investigation into identity, citizenship and community cohesion also propose:

• "Birth ceremonies", at which state and parents agree to "work in partnership" to bring up children

• Action to "ensure access" for ethnic minorities to "largely white" countryside

• An overhaul of Britain's "imperial" honours system

• Bishops being thrown out of the House of Lords

• An end to "sectarian" religious education

• Flying flags other than the Union Jack.

.


Nativity scene: Christian celebrations in schools could become a thing of the past



The report by the Institute for Public Policy Research was commissioned when Nick Pearce, now head of public policy at Downing Street, was its director.

IPPR has shaped many Labour policies, including ID cards, bin taxes and road pricing.

The report robustly defends multiculturalism - the idea that different communities should not be forced to integrate but should be allowed to maintain their own culture and identities.

And it says immigrants should be required to acquire some proficiency in English and other aspects of British culture "if - but only if - the settled population is willing to open up national institutions and practices to newcomers and give a more inclusive cast to national narratives and symbols".

It adds: "Even-handedness dictates that we provide public recognition to minority cultures and traditions.

"If we are going to continue as a nation to mark Christmas - and it would be very hard to expunge it from our national life even if we wanted to - then public organisations should mark other religious festivals too.

"We can no longer define ourselves as a Christian nation, nor an especially religious one in any sense.

"The empire is gone, church attendance is at historically low levels, and the Second World War is inexorably slipping from memory."

National celebration: But could Christmas soon be 'downgraded'?



The report, written by IPPR advisers Ben Rogers and Rick Muir, calls on Ministers to launch an "urgent and upfront campaign" promoting a "multicultural understanding of Britishness".

"Multiculturalism can be shown to provide for a fairer and more liberal society and does not necessarily lead to social division and community conflict, as its critics have claimed," it says.

Councils must act to "ensure children mix and are able to form friendships with pupils from different backgrounds".

The report adds: "Any liberal state should recast the civic oaths and national ceremonies, or institutions like Parliament and the monarchy, in a more multi-religious or secular form and make religious education less sectarian."

The presence of bishops in the House of Lords, for instance, is condemned as an "anachronism" that should be removed.

The system in which parents are required to register a new baby at a register office is dismissed as "purely bureaucratic".

The occasion should be transformed into a "public rite", using citizenship ceremonies for immigrants as a model, the report says.

"Parents, their friends and family and the state [would] agree to work in partnership to support and bring up their child."

Rural Britain, the report complains, "remains a largely white place".

Much more needs to be done to "ensure access" to the countryside for black and ethnic minority groups, disabled people and children from inner-city areas.

Sayeeda Warsi, the Conservative spokesman on community cohesion, said: "Their comments betray a breathtaking misunderstanding of what it is to be British. These proposals could actually damage cohesion."

She added: "You don't build community cohesion by throwing out our history and denying the fundamental contribution Christianity has played and does play to our nation.

"As a British Muslim I can see that - so why others can't just staggers me."

And she attacked ceremonies to mark the registration of a baby.

"The thought of Gordon Brown sharing responsibility with me for bringing up my children sends a shiver down my spine. I thought we got rid of communism?"
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/liv...n_page_id=1770
Reply

Login/Register to hide ads. Scroll down for more posts
Muezzin
11-02-2007, 01:10 AM
Yeah, I'm just waiting for this to be blamed on the ethnic or religious minority who didn't have a say in the matter and actually tend to think such acts are grotesquely stupid.

Right...

About...

Oh, all right. Maybe the real attack will be on 'multiculturalism' as a concept, rather than the flawed way in which blinkered politicians clumsily interpret it.

Either way, the thought of downgrading an already secularised religious festival such as Christmas, or subverting centuries-old tradition by chucking clergymen out of the House of Lords, for the perceived benefit of an ethnic or religious minority is simply crazy talk.
Reply

Isambard
11-02-2007, 02:22 AM
PC at its worst. Yay!
Reply

The_Prince
11-02-2007, 02:31 AM
go on ppl, blame the Muslims! lol they want to blame muslims for this but cant since muslims actually didnt say this or have a say in it. :)
Reply

Welcome, Guest!
Hey there! Looks like you're enjoying the discussion, but you're not signed up for an account.

When you create an account, you can participate in the discussions and share your thoughts. You also get notifications, here and via email, whenever new posts are made. And you can like posts and make new friends.
Sign Up
aamirsaab
11-02-2007, 09:45 AM
Christmas should be 'downgraded' to help race relations

LOL!

Here is a view from a muslim (me): Seeing as I do not celebrate Christmas, I don't even care if it is upgraded let alone downgraded. This is fundementally a Christian country with many Christian cultures/practices, namely Christmas. I accepted that a long time ago and NEVER said to change it.

Downgrading Christmas will do little for race relations. Jeez, if I downgraded eid, I'd be a coconut. I wonder what a Christian would therefore be, if they downgraded Christmas?
Reply

Amadeus85
11-02-2007, 11:25 AM
Originally Posted by Muezzin
Yeah, I'm just waiting for this to be blamed on the ethnic or religious minority who didn't have a say in the matter and actually tend to think such acts are grotesquely stupid.

Right...

About...

Oh, all right. Maybe the real attack will be on 'multiculturalism' as a concept, rather than the flawed way in which blinkered politicians clumsily interpret it.

Either way, the thought of downgrading an already secularised religious festival such as Christmas, or subverting centuries-old tradition by chucking clergymen out of the House of Lords, for the perceived benefit of an ethnic or religious minority is simply crazy talk.
I didnt post this thread to attack ethnic minorities or muslims in UK, but to see your opinions about it and show that the biggest enemies of Western Civilization are our own european moral barbarians.
Reply

Malaikah
11-02-2007, 12:10 PM
Originally Posted by aamirsaab
Here is a view from a muslim (me): Seeing as I do not celebrate Christmas, I don't even care if it is upgraded let alone downgraded. This is fundementally a Christian country with many Christian cultures/practices, namely Christmas. I accepted that a long time ago and NEVER said to change it.
:sl:

I thought the UK was a secular country?
Reply

Isambard
11-02-2007, 01:27 PM
Originally Posted by The_Prince
go on ppl, blame the Muslims! lol they want to blame muslims for this but cant since muslims actually didnt say this or have a say in it. :)
Atheists are more likely to be blamed, mostly because they've been campaigning to get religion removed from public view. This is going to far, but we'll get blamed regardless
Reply

Bittersteel
11-02-2007, 01:35 PM
wtf???what's wrong with Christmas in Britain for God's sakes?are people getting stupid day by day or what?hopefully it's one of those think tank ideas never to be put in practice.
Reply

snakelegs
11-02-2007, 06:35 PM
this should be warmly embraced by xenophobes and bigots. i'm a little surprised that it was proposed by labour party. (tho i know nothing about british politics). it sounds like a gift to the right wingers - bound to fuel the fires of racism and nationalism.
Reply

Karina
11-02-2007, 06:47 PM
Christmas downgraded? Hmm. Never mind that.
I think that a few more Brits should be educated on what & why they are actually celebrating at Christmas. Does anyone actually take into account the religious meaning anymore? Really. What are they celebrating?

Celebrating the robotic christmas shopping that starts in September?

Celebrating mountains of unwanted gifts?

Celebrating the gluttony, the mass hysteria in the supermarket aisles?

Celebrating the miles of un-moving motorway traffic?


Ooops sorry I was thinking out loud, bah humbug! :giggling: :giggling:
Reply

guyabano
11-02-2007, 06:57 PM
There's nothing worsier than to run through a shopping mall and get peramantly showered by Christmas songs. Jeeeez, I hate it.
But then again, my kids love the Christmas Atmosphere
Reply

S_87
11-02-2007, 09:16 PM
:sl:

thats silly, i hope they dont blame it on muslims which im sure some people will :rolleyes:
Reply

wilberhum
11-02-2007, 09:29 PM
Originally Posted by amani
:sl:

thats silly, i hope they dont blame it on muslims which im sure some people will :rolleyes:
Looks like someone has a guilt complex. :embarrass

Now I think they will blame the atheists. After all, we all know they are evil. :-\
Reply

Karina
11-02-2007, 10:18 PM
There's always got to be blame. blame blame balme.

Sometimes I think that blame is one area we may be going wrong in this world.

But, hey ho. Just generalising again . :zip:

Anyway. Christmas......................................... .................
Reply

Fishman
11-02-2007, 10:31 PM
:sl:
So, they want to downgrade Christmas, which most people like, whilst leaving Halloween, which loads of people hate, all in the name of 'race relations'? :?

Seriously, Christmas should be a time for giving (not wanting, as the shops all say), and if people were a bit more religious about it I think it would help our society. However, Halloween is a festival about devils that does not even commemorate anything decent anymore, and causes huge amounts of antisocial behaviour, what with people's houses being egged and all. Bonfire night is also a major antisocial behaviour blackspot as well, but it does still mean something to people...
:w:
Reply

Isambard
11-03-2007, 03:37 AM
This is more of a personal thing, but I for one would be happy if christmas got cancelled. Why?

I really, really hate christmas music. Like REALLY! And all the crappy christmas specials on tv, and consequently, I hate the colours Red, Green, and White. Especially in that combination. AHHH!

Down with Christmas! (6)
Reply

Amadeus85
11-03-2007, 12:40 PM
I think that if someone is to be blamed for downgrading Christmas its we , majority of western christians who allowed this holy day to become just a great opportunity for selling things.
Reply

Keltoi
11-03-2007, 10:40 PM
Well, it must be understood that the Christmas we see out in public, meaning Santa, reindeer, elves, etc, is simply a secular version of an otherwise purely religious holiday. When I walk around the mall and hear Christmas songs and see people spending extraordinary amounts of money, the life, death, and resurrection of Christ isn't involved in any of it. The real Christmas occurs at places of worship and people's personal religious observances.
Reply

chacha_jalebi
11-03-2007, 10:42 PM
who cares :p
Reply

wilberhum
11-03-2007, 10:44 PM
Originally Posted by chacha_jalebi
who cares :p
Obviously you care enough to post your feelings. :D
Reply

chacha_jalebi
11-03-2007, 10:46 PM
Originally Posted by wilberhum
Obviously you care enough to post your feelings. :D
theres always one isnt there :mmokay:

no one cares lol people are still gona celebrate christmas to the max, because its their religious ceremony, no matter what no govt says.

and the non christians never celebrated christmas so i dont know how it will improve relations :hmm:

so who cares :p
Reply

Skavau
11-05-2007, 04:11 PM
Originally Posted by Malaikah
I thought the UK was a secular country?
Christmas/Winter Solstice/Yule is mostly a secular celebration. Enjoyed by Irreligious people just as much as Christians.

The origins of it isn't really Christian.
Reply

Talha777
11-05-2007, 07:34 PM
Christmas is not a religious holiday and never has been, its not mentioned in the bible, its a tradition later adapted by the church to help facilitate europe's transition from paganism to christianity. christmas is steeped in pagan traditions, its actually a celebration of the pagan sun god mithra. same with most other holidays which christians celebrate, like halloween (samhain) another pagan festival.

Christmas has no business being a state holiday, and its commemoration in public schools and offices should be halted immediately. Alternatively, the government must allow muslims to have Ramadhan and the two Eids as public holidays without any economic penalty being incurred by them if it wishes to keep christmas and easter on the national calendar. this is only fair for a country which claims to be secular and multicultural.
Reply

wilberhum
11-05-2007, 07:42 PM
Christmas is not a religious holiday and never has been
Oddly, you go on to prove it is. :hmm:
its a tradition later adapted by the church
But if you are right, how can you say that Muslims should get religious days off. :hiding:
A truly confusing stance.

Though I disagree with your logic, as it makes conflicting stances, I do agree with your conclusion. :D
Reply

Keltoi
11-05-2007, 09:22 PM
This sounds like something the ACLU would put forward in the U.S. If anyone thinks "downgrading" Christmas is going to improve race relations they should have their heads examined.
Reply

NoName55
11-05-2007, 11:20 PM
Christmas is not a religious holiday and never has been, its not mentioned in the bible,
What about "milad-un-nabi"? is that mentioned in the Holy Quraan?

or is it a continuation of ealier tradition of Jesus' birthday?

oh! BTW. why the "urs"? what is that? another type of anniversary celebration?
Reply

Talha777
11-06-2007, 12:05 AM
قُلْ بِفَضْلِ اللّهِ وَبِرَحْمَتِهِ فَبِذَلِكَ فَلْيَفْرَحُواْ هُوَ خَيْرٌ مِّمَّا يَجْمَعُونَ

Say: In the bounty of Allah. And in His Mercy, in that let them rejoice: that is better than the (wealth) they hoard
(Yunus 10.58)

Subhan Allah, is not the coming and the birth of Prophet Muhammad (sallallahu alaihi wa salam) one of the fazail (bounties) of Allah Azzawajal? Is not the coming of Nabi sallallahu alaihi wa salaam part of the Mercy (Rahmat) of Allah, because the Holy Quran elsewhere says:

We sent thee not (O Muhammad), but as a Mercy for all creatures
(Al Anbiya 21.107)

And regarding the birth of Muhammad Rasoolullah alaihi salaatu wa salam specifically, it is mentioned in authentic hadith:

"He was then asked about fasting on Monday, whereupon he said: It was the day on which I was born, on which I was commissioned with prophethood or revelation was sent to me" (Sahih Muslim: Kitab Siyam)

So you see, even Holy Prophet sallallahu alaihi wa salam would commemorate his birthday. How can you possibly compare christmas, a pagan holiday, to Mawlid un Nabi, which has so much blessings and which is a purely religious and spiritual day of commemoration. Christmas is bereft of any spiritual value, it is just commercialized and has no value. This can never happen to the days which Allah has set apart and made holy

WA ZAKIRHUM BI AYAUMI ALLAH

And teach them to remember the Days of Allah
(Ibrahim 14.5)
Reply

NoName55
11-06-2007, 12:13 AM
since I am no scholar like you, I would not be able to understand all that you posted/pasted.

could you please answer it as simply as the posed questions?

one more try:
What about "milad-un-nabi"? is that mentioned in the Holy Quraan?

or is it a continuation of earlier tradition of Jesus' birthday?

why the "urs"? what is that? another type of anniversary celebration?

How can you possibly compare christmas, a pagan holiday, to Mawlid un Nabi,
they think it is celebration of Hazrat Eesa Alahi salam's birthday (is he not our Nabi as well?)


how does mutilation of Quraanic Ayah about Israel, prove milad celebration?
And teach them to remember the Days of Allah
(Ibrahim 14.5)
14.4. we sent not an apostle except (to teach) In the language of His (own) people, In order to make (things) Clear to them. Now Allah leaves straying those whom He pleases and guides whom He pleases: and He is Exalted In power, full of wisdom.


14.5. we sent Moses with Our Signs (and the command). "Bring out Thy people from the depths of darkness into light, and teach them to remember the days of Allah." Verily In This there are Signs for such As are firmly patient and constant,- grateful and appreciative.


14.6. Remember! Moses said to His people: "Call to mind the favour of Allah to you when He delivered you from the people of Pharaoh: They set you hard tasks and punishments, slaughtered your sons, and let your women-folk live: therein was a tremendous trial from your Lord."
We sent thee not (O Muhammad), but as a Mercy for all creatures
(Al Anbiya 21.107)
How does quoting of an Ayah about Tawhid teach us about milad?:-\

21.106. Verily, In This (the Qur'ân) there is a plain message for people who Worship Allâh
21.107. and we have sent You not but as a Mercy for the 'Alamîn [(All that exists) to invite them away from shirk not towards it].
21.108. Say: "It is revealed to Me that Your Ilâh is Only one Ilâh (God ). Will you then submit to his will (become Muslims and stop worshipping others besides Allâh)?"
Reply

Amadeus85
11-06-2007, 12:18 AM
Its good to know that most of muslims are against downgrading Christmas in UK.
Reply

جوري
11-06-2007, 12:36 AM
you get time off from work/school whatever.. what is there to bi**h about?

I have never viewed it as anything but a nice mini vacation smack dead where you need it most! It is easy to leave all the harj and marj behind..
It is the only time when the usual hordes of people are fully clothed and in their parkas for a change instead of laying about in nakedness as they do come spring break or just a usual hot summer day! In fact that is what they should do away with 'spring break'!

as for noisy cards and made in china goods that get returned two days later.. well frankly who cares?
I don't understand why this is even a topic?
my
Reply

ranma1/2
11-06-2007, 12:47 AM
Originally Posted by guyabano
There's nothing worsier than to run through a shopping mall and get peramantly showered by Christmas songs. Jeeeez, I hate it.
But then again, my kids love the Christmas Atmosphere
worsier?

Yes there is. whats worse is working in a shopping mall and listending to that insane drone of songs.
Reply

NoName55
11-06-2007, 01:07 AM
Originally Posted by ranma1/2
worsier?

Yes there is. whats worse is working in a shopping mall and listending to that insane drone of songs.
have you been fired from your "teaching" job?

why else would you be working in a shopping mall *listending*?
or perhaps they moved the school inside a shoping mall
Reply

جوري
11-06-2007, 02:25 AM
Originally Posted by NoName55
have you been fired from your "teaching" job?

why else would you be working in a shopping mall *listending*?
or perhaps they moved the school inside a shoping mall
;D ;D Jazaka Allah khyran for making me laugh...
They are not very discriminating abroad from what I gather... to the orient I say >>>>>>>>
:w:
Reply

Hey there! Looks like you're enjoying the discussion, but you're not signed up for an account.

When you create an account, you can participate in the discussions and share your thoughts. You also get notifications, here and via email, whenever new posts are made. And you can like posts and make new friends.
Sign Up

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 10
    Last Post: 03-19-2012, 02:20 PM
  2. Replies: 3
    Last Post: 01-24-2010, 11:32 PM
  3. Replies: 30
    Last Post: 11-12-2007, 11:39 PM
  4. Replies: 3
    Last Post: 05-24-2007, 03:48 AM
  5. Replies: 0
    Last Post: 11-22-2006, 02:56 AM

IslamicBoard

Experience a richer experience on our mobile app!