"Why has Allah forbidden eating Pork?"

[meknesi]

Dr. M. Amjad Khan

In nearly all the western countries including Europe, the primary choice for meat is pig. There are a lot of farms in these countries to breed this animal. In France alone, Pig Farms account for more than 42,000. Pigs have the highest quantity of fat in their body than any other animal. The following report by a medical practitioner reveals the extent to which pig fat might be unknowingly consumed by Muslims throughout the world.


One of my friends, Shaikh Sahib works in Pegal, France, in the Department of Food. His work is to register all makes of goods, foods and medicines. Whenever any company is putting something in the market, its ingredients have to be approved by the Department of Food, France, and as Shaikh Sahib works in the Laboratory Quality Control, he knows about the ingredients. Many of these ingredients contain scientific names, but some have mathematical names, like E-904, E-141. At first, when Shaikh Sahib came across them, he was curious and asked his Department Incharge, who was a French, and he replied, "Just do your job. Don't ask questions." This aroused suspicion in Shaikh Sahib's mind and he started looking-up for them in the files. What he found was enough to astonish any Muslim in the world. In nearly all the western countries including Europe, the primary choice for meat is pig. There are a lot of farms in these countries to breed this animal. In France alone, Pig Farms account for more than 42,000. Pigs have the highest quantity of fat in their body than any other animal. But Europeans and Americans try to avoid fats. Thus, where does the fat from these pigs go? All pigs are cut in slaughter houses under the control of the department of food and it was the headache of the department of food to dispose of the fat removed from these pigs. Formally, it was burnt (about 60 years ago). Then they thought of utilizing it. First, they experimented it in the making of soaps and it worked. Then, a full network was formed and this fat was chemically processed, packed and marketed, while the other manufacturing companies bought it. In the meantime, all European States made it a rule that every Food, Medical and Personal Hygiene product should have the ingredients listed on it's cover. So, this ingredient was listed as pig fat. Those who are living in Europe for the past 40 years know about this. But, these products came under a ban by the Islamic countries at that time, which resulted in a trade deficit. Going back in time, if you are somehow related to South East Asia, you might know about the provoking factors of the 1857 Civil War. At that time, rifle bullets were made in Europe and transported to the sub-continent through the sea. It took months to reach there and the gunpowder in it was ruined due to the exposure to sea. Then, they got the idea of coating the bullets with fat, which was pig fat. The fat layer had to be scratched by teeth before using them. when the word spread, the soldiers, mostly Muslim and some vegetarians, refused to fight. This eventually lead to the Civil War. The Europeans recognized this fact, and instead of writing 'pig fat', they started writing 'animal fat'. All those living in Europe since 1970's know this fact. When the companies were asked by authorities from the Muslim countries, what animal fat is it, they were told it was cow and sheep fat. Here again a question arose, if it was cow or sheep fat, still it is haram to Muslims, as these animal were not slaughtered as per the Islamic law. Thus, they were again banned. Now, these multinational companies were again facing a severe drought of money as 75% of their income comes from selling their goods to Muslim Countries, and these earn billions of Dollars of profit from their exports to the Muslim world.

Finally they decided to start a coding language, so that only their Departments of Food Administration should know what they are using, and the common man is left lurking in the dark. Thus, they started E-Codes. These E-Ingredients are present in a majority of products of multinational firms including, but not limited to - tooth paste, shaving cream, chewing gum, chocolate, sweets, biscuits, corn flakes, toffees, canned foods, fruit tins, and some medications like multi-vitamins. Since these goods are being used in all Muslim countries indiscrimately, our society is facing problems like shamelessness, rudeness and sexual promiscuity.


So I request all Muslims to check the ingredients of the items of daily use and match it with the following list of E-Codes. If any of the ingredients listed below is found, try to avoid it, as it has got pig fat.=20
E100, E110, E120, E 140, E141, E153, E210, E213, E214, E216, E234, E252, E270, E280, E325, E326, E327, E334, E335, E336, E337, E422, E430, E431, E432, E433, E434, E435, E436, E440, E470, E471, E472, E473, E474, E475, E476, E477, E478, E481, E482, E483, E491, E492, E493, E494, E495, E542, E570, E572, E631, E635, E904.


It is the responsibility of each and every Muslim to follow the Islamic path and also keep his fellow followers informed of anything that he comes across. May Allah help us lead a halal life.

:eek:

[Ameeratul Layl]

"Just do your job. Don't ask questions."
How rude!!!:rant:
This aroused suspicion in Shaikh Sahib's mind and he started looking-up for them in the files.

Good one shielkh. I wud have done the same.:playing:
Pigs have the highest quantity of fat in their body than any other animal.

:omg:
But Europeans and Americans try to avoid fats.

Hah!! Have u seen the size of these Americans!!!!:raging:

But, these products came under a ban by the Islamic countries at that time, which resulted in a trade deficit.

Hah...loosers....


Then, they got the idea of coating the bullets with fat, which was pig fat. The fat layer had to be scratched by teeth before using them. when the word spread, the soldiers, mostly Muslim and some vegetarians, refused to fight. This eventually lead to the Civil War. The Europeans recognized this fact, and instead of writing 'pig fat', they started writing 'animal fat'. All those living in Europe since 1970's know this fact. When the companies were asked by authorities from the Muslim countries, what animal fat is it, they were told it was cow and sheep fat. Here again a question arose, if it was cow or sheep fat, still it is haram to Muslims, as these animal were not slaughtered as per the Islamic law. Thus, they were again banned. Now, these multinational companies were again facing a severe drought of money as 75% of their income comes from selling their goods to Muslim Countries, and these earn billions of Dollars of profit from their exports to the Muslim world.

Omgg.....this is gettig worse.

So I request all Muslims to check the ingredients of the items of daily use and match it with the following list of E-Codes. If any of the ingredients listed below is found, try to avoid it, as it has got pig fat.=20
E100, E110, E120, E 140, E141, E153, E210, E213, E214, E216, E234, E252, E270, E280, E325, E326, E327, E334, E335, E336, E337, E422, E430, E431, E432, E433, E434, E435, E436, E440, E470, E471, E472, E473, E474, E475, E476, E477, E478, E481, E482, E483, E491, E492, E493, E494, E495, E542, E570, E572, E631, E635, E904.


It is the responsibility of each and every Muslim to follow the Islamic path and also keep his fellow followers informed of anything that he comes across. May Allah help us lead a halal life.

Everything in this Dunya seems to be becoming haraam for Us Muslims. Ya Allah!!! Plz help us to stay on Siratim Mustaqeem.

By the way brother, are there not any medical bros and sisters u know of including that shiekh who cud get together and make our own products so we dont need to rely on the non muslims?:-\

Allah ma3ak

[modez]

Very true bro.. As our parents say, that there never was an ingreidient lable on any kind of food years back (in the UK), so loads of muslim probably ate alot of haraam foods, they tried not to. We at this present time should be lucky to have these ingredient lable's and adhere to it. (Every household should have an updaated muslim food guide, for those in the UK).

May Allah save us from Haraam foods.

[Rabi'ya]

jazakAllah for psoting. good article and beneficial....

:w:

Rabi'ya:rose:

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[Halima]

:sl:

Wonderful post, and I feel that I should share this verse in the Quran because it directly prohibits muslims from eating pork.


Oh ye people! Eat of what is on earth, lawful and good. If there is any restriction on you from Allah, subhaana wa ta´aala, that is – do not eat the dead animals (Maytatah), avoid the blood and the flesh of swine (pork), and do not eat any such thing on which someone´s else name has been pronounced except the name of Allah, subhaana wa ta´aala. Yet, if someone is in the situation of helplessness and he/she eats any of these things without that he/she has the intention to break the Law or exceeds the limits of necessity, then there is no sin on him/her, Allah, subhaana wa ta´aala, is Oft-Forgiving and Loving” (The Holy Quran, II: 172, 173).



For more information please visit:
http://eng.islam.ru/lib/pork/

[Protected_Diamond]

WHY IS PORK FORBIDDEN IN ISLAM?

Bob: Tell me why is it that a Muslim is very particular about the words Halaal and Haraam; what do they mean?


Yunus: That which is permissible is termed Halaal and that which i not permissible is termed Haraam and it is the Quran which draws the distinction between the two.


Bob: Can you give me an example?


"Yunus: Yes, Islam has prohibited ! blood of any type. You will agree "that a chemical analysis of blood shows that it contains an abundance of uric acid, a chemical substance which can be injurious to human health. "


"Bob: You're right about the toxic nature of uric acid, in the human being it is excreted as a waste product and in fact we are told that 98% of the body's uric acid is extracted from the blood by the kidneys and removed through urination.

Yunus: Now I think that you'll appreciate the special prescribed method of animal slaughter in Islam.


Bob: What do you mean?

"Yunus: You see, the wielder of the knife, whilst taking the name of the 'Almighty', makes an incision through the jugular veins, leaving all
other veins and organs intact.


"Bob: I see, this causes the death of the animal by a total loss of blood from the! body, rather than an injury to any vital organ. "


"Yunus: Yes, were the organs, example the heart, the liver, or the brain crippled or damaged, the animal could die immediately and its blood
would congeal in its veins and would eventually permeate the flesh. This implies that the animal flesh would be permeated and contaminated with
uric acid and therefore very poisonous; only today did our dietitians realize such a thing.


"Bob: Again, while on the topic of food; Why do Muslims condemn the eating of pork or ham or any foods related to pigs or swine.

"Yunus: Actually, apart from the Quran prohibiting the consumption of pork,bacon (pig flesh); in fact the Bible too in Leviticus chapter 11, verse 8, regarding swine it says, ""of their flesh (of the swine another name for pig)shall you not eat, and of their carcass you shall not touch; they are " unclean to you."" " Further, did you know that a pig cannot be slaughtered at the neck for it does not have a neck; that is according to its natural anatomy. A Muslim reasons that if the pig was
to be slaughtered and fit for human consumption the Creator would have provided it with a neck.

" Nonetheless, all that aside, I am sure you are well informed about the harmful effects of the consumption of pork, in any form, be it pork chops, ham, bacon.

Bob: The medical science finds that there is a risk for various diseases as the pig is found to be a host for many parasites and potential diseases.

"Yunus: Yes, even apart from that, as we talked about uric acid content in the blood, it is important to note that the pig's biochemistry
excretes only 2% of its total uric acid content,
the remaining 98% remains as an integral part of the body.

I hope you benefited and may Allah guide us all...Ameen.. :)

[Rabi'ya]

jazakALlah kheir for posting sis another beneficial post from you!!

May Allah reward you...ameen

:w:

Rabi'ya:rose:

[j4763]

Further, did you know that a pig cannot be slaughtered at the neck for it does not have a neck; that is according to its natural anatomy.

I cannot find anywhere where it says a pig doesn't have a neck?
If i indeed doesn't have a neck, what about fish do they have necks?

[Rabi'ya]

with regards to fish it is a differnt matter - they are not slaughtered as they die when taken out of the water....they suffocate, not get slaughtered

^^^ please show me where the neck is and where u would make the incision - there is no defined neck! as the article states.

:w:

Rabi'ya:rose:

[j4763]

I would say the neck is between the top of the front feet and the chin, pretty much where all necks are.

[Rabi'ya]

I dont think you can clearly define the neck of the pig. It is not as distinguishable as other animals.

:w:

Rabi'ya:rose:

[aakhirah]

:sl:

Question: Why is pork forbidden?

Answer: Because Allah Ta-'aalaa decreed it as so (e.g. in al-Qur-aan 5:4, "Forbidden to you for (food) are: dead meat, blood and the flesh of the pig and that which has been invoked the name other than Allah.")

For a Muslim, that is sufficient a reason. And no question about it... (although I know the opening of this thread is aimed at non-Muslims).

:w:

A.

[cihad]

i learnt about this pig thing in bio

my teacher said thats why muslims and jews don't eat pig

i just wanna ask another question-why dont jews eat dairy products and meat together?

[czgibson]

Greetings,

I eat pork, bacon and ham all the time and I've never noticed any ill effects.

Also, if eating meat from an animal that hasn't been slaughtered in a halaal way is so injurious to health, howcome Westerners in general don't notice ill effects resulting from this either?

Peace

[j4763]

Please see above for postion of pigs neck. :)

[IbnAbdulHakim]

i tried to giv u reps for such a useful post but gotta spread it around :heated:

[Muhammad]

:sl:

If anyone is interested, there is also a discussion on why pork is forbidden in Islam, in the following thread:

http://www.islamicboard.com/comparat...raam-food.html

:w:

[Muezzin]

A pig is a filthy animal. It rolls around in its own muck and smells like an exploding fart factory.

[root]

A pig is a filthy animal. It rolls around in its own muck and smells like an exploding fart factory.

From all the derogatory clichés you hear about pigs, you'd think these animals are lazy, dirty, gluttonous, and messy. Not surprisingly, much of what we believe about pigs is actually untrue.

http://www.hsus.org/farm_animals/a_f...mals/pigs.html

[Muezzin]

From all the derogatory clichés you hear about pigs, you'd think these animals are lazy, dirty, gluttonous, and messy. Not surprisingly, much of what we believe about pigs is actually untrue.

http://www.hsus.org/farm_animals/a_f...mals/pigs.html

From the article: 'Pigs are intelligent animals, and many consider them to be equal—or superior—to dogs in intelligence'

Interesting. I don't eat dogs either.

And pigs still stink. And eat anything. They're kind of like nature's vacuum cleaners.

And I ain't about to tuck into a Hoover.

[Rou]

I cannot find anywhere where it says a pig doesn't have a neck?
If i indeed doesn't have a neck, what about fish do they have necks?

You search for a neck? why not search for the verse which forbids the eating of swine within the bible?

How openly the rules are set yet they are just as openly broken?

i say this not to insult any christian for those who eat swine are no christian in that sense...

My words are not of hate but enlightenment...

Gods rules are clear and not to be broken for a reason..

[Rou]

Greetings,

I eat pork, bacon and ham all the time and I've never noticed any ill effects.

Also, if eating meat from an animal that hasn't been slaughtered in a halaal way is so injurious to health, howcome Westerners in general don't notice ill effects resulting from this either?

Peace

Lol science does not answer every question about ill health yet there may be unseen reasons for why it is forbidden...

it is stated by god to be unclean..a beleiver of either christian or islamic or jewish belif needs not question why....

It is stated within the quran,torah and bible question is are u religous not if your unhealthy...

[czgibson]

Greetings,

Lol science does not answer every question about ill health yet there may be unseen reasons for why it is forbidden...

Science answers many questions about ill-health, whereas religion answers none.

it is stated by god to be unclean..a beleiver of either christian or islamic or jewish belif needs not question why....

Well, if there's no evidence for it being unclean outside of the "unseen reasons" you suggest, then you have to question god's judgment on this one.

All the Christians I know have no compunction about eating pork. They don't obey all the laws in the Old Testament, in case you didn't know.

It is stated within the quran,torah and bible question is are u religous not if your unhealthy...

Right, so why do we have people trying to justify the prohibition on pork on the grounds that it's supposed to be unhealthy?

Peace

[Rou]

Greetings,


Science answers many questions about ill-health, whereas religion answers none.

Religon answers none? please look more carefully into what science proclaims and the quran states...

Well, if there's no evidence for it being unclean outside of the "unseen reasons" you suggest, then you have to question god's judgment on this one.
.

The unseen reasons... talking from a belif point of view there is a law by god not to eat pork quite clearly stated in all three abrahmic religons...therefore for true followers of religon it is forbidden....

For the seen reasons...the Swine would eat anything you give it and it has no boundries to what it will eat , the swine would be found on battle fields eating the carcass of men wether christian, muslim or jew..compared to other as would be farm animals on a regular basis the swine would eat rotting meat, to then consume such a creature would be quite unhealthy...
Also as ar as unhealthy meats go pork is far unhealthier than other meats...

All the Christians I know have no compunction about eating pork. They don't obey all the laws in the Old Testament, in case you didn't know..

If they do not obey all the laws that is not any mans concern but there own they are no true followers then..the laws within the old testament were never thrown out the window with the new one.. it states no where within the new testament that pork IS allowed...

Right, so why do we have people trying to justify the prohibition on pork on the grounds that it's supposed to be unhealthy?

Peace

Ask those people not me...

However overall as i said pork is unhealthy aswell..

but that would not be the grounds upon which i would not eat it...

Its a law of allah and i am a follower i obey what is quite clearly stated...

[czgibson]

Greetings,

Religon answers none? please look more carefully into what science proclaims and the quran states...

I'd be interested to hear how Qur'anic statements answering questions to do with ill-health compare with those found in modern medicine.

For the seen reasons...the Swine would eat anything you give it and it has no boundries to what it will eat , the swine would be found on battle fields eating the carcass of men wether christian, muslim or jew..compared to other as would be farm animals on a regular basis the swine would eat rotting meat, to then consume such a creature would be quite unhealthy...

It's true that the pig will eat pretty much anything, although I'm surprised you would expect it to discriminate on the grounds of religion!

Also as ar as unhealthy meats go pork is far unhealthier than other meats...

Evidence?

If they do not obey all the laws that is not any mans concern but there own they are no true followers then..the laws within the old testament were never thrown out the window with the new one.. it states no where within the new testament that pork IS allowed...

True, the New Testament doesn't state that pork is allowed (as far as I know anyway). But ask any Christian theologian, priest or monk, and they will tell you that Christians do not have to follow every law of the Old Testament in order to remain Christian.

Ask those people not me...

However overall as i said pork is unhealthy aswell..

You have attempted to justify the argument that pork is unhealthy, therefore I think it's perfectly fair to ask you a) for evidence of this and b) why you think it's a suitable argument to make even though you appear not to found your abstention from pork on this basis.

but that would not be the grounds upon which i would not eat it...

Its a law of allah and i am a follower i obey what is quite clearly stated...

Of course. If you're happy with that, that's fair enough - your belief is your belief. If this is the case, then why make the argument about pork being unhealthy?

Peace

[Rou]

Greetings,


I'd be interested to hear how Qur'anic statements answering questions to do with ill-health compare with those found in modern medicine.

Overall the quran states much on science as i said do look into this if intrested...

It's true that the pig will eat pretty much anything, although I'm surprised you would expect it to discriminate on the grounds of religion!



Evidence?.

i do not expect it to discriminate thats my point... u asked why it is visbley unclean i stated that it would eat rotten meat and even a carcass of a human.

True, the New Testament doesn't state that pork is allowed (as far as I know anyway). But ask any Christian theologian, priest or monk, and they will tell you that Christians do not have to follow every law of the Old Testament in order to remain Christian.

I do not ask a mullah when it comes to not eating pork nor follow the words of a mere man i follow what is stated in the words of allah...

What is the point in following a religon to only follow what parts you want to follow?

You have attempted to justify the argument that pork is unhealthy, therefore I think it's perfectly fair to ask you a) for evidence of this and b) why you think it's a suitable argument to make even though you appear not to found your abstention from pork on this basis..

lol my main aim here is to explain that when it is stated that it is forbidden within your religon that is gods word and it should be followed...
For it being unhealthy a side tracked conversation yet u wish to aim mainly on that point?

lol sorry i wont go through the net looking if porkis the unhealthiest meat!? chefs have stated in the past that if sticking to a healthy life style pork was the first meat to leave off the platter as it contained the highest level of fat compared to other red meats...pls research yourself...

Of course. If you're happy with that, that's fair enough - your belief is your belief. If this is the case, then why make the argument about pork being unhealthy?

Peace

You seem to be going round in circles...i have no argument..i have stated an important fact...i it is forbidden within your religon to eat a certain animal to truly follow your religon follow gods words..

Pork being unhealthy is your argument that i state it is unhealthy however if you wish for this to be the main debate here you are in the wrong place my friend...

Wether it be unhealthy or not abrahamic religons forbid it...

[renak]

It was my understanding that in the time of Mohammad pigs had a parasite. Is this true? Well, this is no longer the case, so I don't understand the prohibition.

In regards to pork being forbidden in the bible, torrah, and koran, this is true. However, did you ever stop to think what your life would REALLY be like if you obeyed ALL the rules and regulations mentioned in the bible, torrah, or koran? I think we all have a tendency to pick and choose the ones we want to incorporate into our lives.

I clearly do not understand the assumption that pigs do not have a neck. I was raised on a hog farm, and yes, I guarantee you that they DO have a neck. In fact, when we would slaughter them, the first step was to shoot the pig, then IMMEDIATELY, slice the neck with a knife to drain the blood. Also, my farmgirl expertise can also tell you that chicken and turkeys are far more nasty than pigs. They eat their feces, they eat dirt. The flesh of a chicken or turkey is the most difficult to prepare in a sanitary manner.

To address the pork being unhealthy, I want to mention that the health factor of all animals depends on the method of food preparation. For example, pork (like poultry) has the meat attached to the fat. The fat is not incorporated into the tissue of animal. All you have to do is separate the meat from the fat(cut it off with a knife). Any beef eaters out there? Did you know that it is impossible to separate the meat from the fat? The fat is intertwined into the flesh of the animal (this is called marbeling). So, as far as fat content, beef would be the least healthy option.

I'm not trying to offend anyone, or convince anyone to eat pork. This is just my 2 cents.

[Ghazi]

what your life would REALLY be like if you obeyed ALL the rules and regulations mentioned in the bible, torrah, or koran

Then I'd be a mumin(inshallah)

[renak]

Then I'd be a mumin(inshallah)

Does this mean, "one who has come into peace or security "?

I do not mean to disrespect you or anyone else, I personally believe that it is impossible for us to follow every rule in the religious books. I suppose it's because many of them are contradictory.

[Ghazi]

Salaam

Difinition:A believer, a practicing Muslim who wholeheartedly yields to Allah's guiding wisdom and is thus harmony with His will and at peace with himself and fellow creatures

[Ghazi]

Salaam

I disagree, the deen has been made easy, one might make mistakes on the journey, but one can try.

[*LJ*]

Does this mean, "one who has come into peace or security "?

I do not mean to disrespect you or anyone else, I personally believe that it is impossible for us to follow every rule in the religious books. I suppose it's because many of them are contradictory.

Salam,

It may well be impossible, but its not impossible for us to try, to please Allah as best we can.

(Muslims believe there are no contradictions in the Qur'an)

Salam

[renak]

Salam,

It may well be impossible, but its not impossible for us to try, to please Allah as best we can.

(Muslims believe there are no contradictions in the Qur'an)

Salam

Perhaps there are no contradictions in the Qur'an. I am not in a position to deny your statement. Would this mean that the differences in opinions are due to individual interpretation? As much as I would like to believe that the instructions in the Qur'an are presented in black and white, I find that difficult to grasp. We can see from this forum the many views of Islamic interpretation. I don't think that this is a bad thing...just gives us the need for tolerance. :)

[renak]

Salaam

I disagree, the deen has been made easy, one might make mistakes on the journey, but one can try.

Hi. If the deen has been made easy, why are there so many differences in opinions? Thanks.

[Ghazi]

Hi. If the deen has been made easy, why are there so many differences in opinions? Thanks.

Salaam

I take it you talking about the sunni,shia division, well I'm not qualified to give a full answer but it comes done to people taking the advice of diffrent imams, anways this goes against forum rules so i'll leave it at here.

[Chuck]

However, did you ever stop to think what your life would REALLY be like if you obeyed ALL the rules and regulations mentioned in the bible, torrah, or koran?

How? Give some specific examples? For example, why is there all the fuss over pig meat? I don't eat pig meat and I never felt the need to eat pig meat... meat from other animals fulfill my requirement.

[renak]

[QUOTE=Chuck;207361]How? Give some specific examples?QUOTE]

These are quotes that bother me. Since they are in the Quran, should we follow them?

Surah 4:43 - A man may punish his wife by beating her

Surah 5:51 - Muslim must not take a Jew or a a Christian for a friend
Surah 5:38 - Stealing is punished by the amputation of the hands

Surah 5:33 - Resisting Islam is punished by death, crucifixion or the cutting off of the hands and feet

Surah 24:2 - Adultery is punished by public flogging
*******************************************
Some bible quotes that most christians don't follow....

Leviticus 20:9
If anyone curses his father or mother, he must be put to death.

20:10 If a man commits adultery with another man’s wife—with the wife of his neighbor—both the adulterer and the adulteress must be put to death.

20:13 If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death.
*****************************
Of course I could post many more quotes from the Quran and Bible. This is why I am asserting that Muslims and Christians follow only part of the rules in their holy books.

[Chuck]

Surah 4:43 - A man may punish his wife by beating her

That's mistranslation and furthermore, it is not an obligatory issue from the pov of Quran.

Surah 5:51 - Muslim must not take a Jew or a a Christian for a friend

Another mistranslation.

Surah 5:38 - Stealing is punished by the amputation of the hands

That depends on the situation and context... in general it is not compulsory.

Surah 5:33 - Resisting Islam is punished by death, crucifixion or the cutting off of the hands and feet

Another mistranlsation and taken out of context.

Surah 24:2 - Adultery is punished by public flogging

I didn't check translation and context, but why adultery should be acceptable in the first place? Which one is worse: discouraging through flogging or killing millions of unwanted babies every year through abortion?

[czgibson]

Greetings,

I didn't check translation and context, but why adultery should be acceptable in the first place? Which one is worse: discouraging through flogging or killing millions of unwanted babies every year through abortion?

Adultery = killing millions of unwanted babies?

I think not.

Peace

[renak]

I didn't check translation and context, but why adultery should be acceptable in the first place? Which one is worse: discouraging through flogging or killing millions of unwanted babies every year through abortion?

I can see your point about the statement above.

However, quotes wich weren't translated correctly concern me. It makes an english speaking person wonder why they should even consider Islam without first becoming fluent in Arabic....just something for me to think about. Thanks!

[Chuck]

Adultery = killing millions of unwanted babies [abortion]?

Both have correlation.

However, quotes wich weren't translated correctly concern me. It makes an english speaking person wonder why they should even consider Islam without first becoming fluent in Arabic....just something for me to think about. Thanks!

Where did you get the translations?

[renak]

Both have corelation.


Where did you got the translations?

It was from a Quran sent to me years ago from a muslim group headquartered in Saudi Arabia.

[songinwind]

Greetings,


Science answers many questions about ill-health, whereas religion answers none.



Well, if there's no evidence for it being unclean outside of the "unseen reasons" you suggest, then you have to question god's judgment on this one.

All the Christians I know have no compunction about eating pork. They don't obey all the laws in the Old Testament, in case you didn't know.



Right, so why do we have people trying to justify the prohibition on pork on the grounds that it's supposed to be unhealthy?

Peace

""Right, so why do we have people trying to justify the prohibition on pork on the grounds that it's supposed to be unhealthy?"""

Would you eat the things that pigs,,and might add--Dogs eat, like their own filth:hmm: :heated: ....That should tell you thats rather unhealthy....and if God says it, that its true:) ..I know I for one am not about to eat something that eats its own, and others filth:heated:

[renak]

""Right, so why do we have people trying to justify the prohibition on pork on the grounds that it's supposed to be unhealthy?"""

Would you eat the things that pigs,,and might add--Dogs eat, like their own filth:hmm: :heated: ....That should tell you thats rather unhealthy....and if God says it, that its true:) ..I know I for one am not about to eat something that eats its own, and others filth:heated:

I'm not trying to be mean, but do you eat chicken? They eat their own filth, the filth of other chickens, and about anything else they can find.

[songinwind]

I'm not trying to be mean, but do you eat chicken? They eat their own filth, the filth of other chickens, and about anything else they can find.

No..but eat lots of fish.....vegtables...fruit...:)

[songinwind]

Bad effects of pork consumption

Pig's bodies contain many toxins, worms and latent diseases (Ed: That's what cooking is for. And other animals have diseases like BSE, Salmonella et al). Although some of these infestations are harbored in other animals, modern veterinarians say that pigs are far more predisposed to these illnesses than other animals (Ed: Where do these people get their scientific information?). This could be because pigs like to scavenge and will eat any kind of food, including dead insects, worms (Ed: Chickens eat worms), rotting carcasses, excreta (including their own), garbage, and other pigs (Ed: Rabbits are like this too, eating their own excrement and other unsavoury 'foods'. Anyhow, modern pigs are raised in hygenic conditions).

Influenza (flu) is one of the most famous illnesses which pigs share with humans. This illness is harbored in the lungs of pigs during the summer months and tends to affect pigs and humans in the cooler months. Sausage contains bits of pigs' lungs, so those who eat pork sausage tend to suffer more during epidemics of influenza (Ed: That's what cooking is for. And sausages contain many things. Beef sausages contain spinal cord, brain tissue etc. And let's not even talk about Hamburgers). Pig meat contains excessive quantities of histamine and imidazole compounds, which can lead to itching and inflammation; growth hormone, which promotes inflammation and growth; sulphur-containing mesenchymal mucus, which leads to swelling and deposits of mucus in tendons and cartilage, resulting in arthritis, rheumatism, etc (Ed: ???). Sulphur helps cause firm human tendons and ligaments to be replaced by the pig's soft mesenchymal tissues (Ed: !!! This sounds like total hogwash. Replacement of your tissues by the pigs? This has already become worse than Creation 'Science'), and degeneration of human cartilage. Eating pork can also lead to gallstones and obesity, probably due to its high cholesterol and saturated fat content (Ed: Consuming palm oil leads to Coronary Heart Disease). The pig is the main carrier of the taenia solium worm, which is found it its flesh. These tapeworms are found in human intestines with greater frequency in nations where pigs are eaten. This type of tapeworm can pass through the intestines and affect many other organs, and is incurable once it reaches beyond a certain stage. One in six people in the US and Canada has trichinosis from eating trichina worms which are found in pork. Many people have no symptoms to warn them of this, and when they do, they resemble symptoms of many other illnesses. These worms are not noticed during meat inspections, nor are they killed by salting or smoking. Few people cook the meat long enough to kill the trichinae. The rat (another scavenger) also harbors this disease. There are dozens of other worms, germs, diseases and bacteria which are commonly found in pigs, many of which are specific to the pig, or found in greater frequency in pigs. (Ed: Modern pigs are not as sickly as ancient ones)

Pigs are biologically similar to humans, and their meat is said to taste similar to human flesh (Ed: By who? Has the writer tasted both himself? Anyway, why does that makes it wrong to eat pig flesh? For all we know, human meat could be DELICIOUS, and the only thing stopping us from eating human meat is the fact that it's taboo to eat one of your own kind. So, eating something that TASTES like human meat is perfectly fine. Vegetarian meat is similar in composition to real meat [proteins] and it tastes similar to real meat, does it make it any more wrong for a vegan to eat vegetarian meat?). Pigs have been used for dissection in biology labs due to the similarity between their organs and human organs (Ed: So have frogs and rabbits). People with insulin-dependent diabetes usually inject themselves with pig insulin (Ed: I sympathise with Muslim diabetics. Actually, porcine insulin isn't used anymore!). If you pour Coke (yes, the soda) on a slab of pork, and wait a little while, you will see worms crawl out of it (Ed: ???. This is really astoundingly grossly wrong. Maybe the pork used for the aforementioned experiment was left to rot for several days first).
:heated: :heated:

[renak]

No..but eat lots of fish.....vegtables...fruit...:)

:giggling: Well...did you know that many fish eat their own offspring and/or scavengers (eating any filth they can find)? :?

[songinwind]

:giggling: Well...did you know that many fish eat their own offspring and/or scavengers (eating any filth they can find)? :?

:giggling: :giggling:
I guess if we look hard enough we can find lots of things....But I "follow" God's words, and not sit around and laugh , as he does know all...far more than any human..He did create us:) ..so "smile on":) peace to u

[songinwind]

Is Pork Forbidden to Muslims Only?

The Jews and Christians are also forbidden from eating pork. Here is a quote from the Old Testament to that effect: "And the swine, because it divideth the hoof, yet cheweth not the cud (Ed: Isn't chewing the cud disgusting and shouldn't that make Cows Haram?), it is unclean unto you: ye shall not eat of their flesh, nor touch their dead carcase." Deuteronomy 14:8 Many Christians believe that this verse was directed only at the Jews (Ed: Most. And how many Christians do not eat pork?).
:rollseyes :)

[Umu 'Isa]

Why is the eating of pork forbidden in Islam?
Answer..
The fact that consumption of pork is prohibited in Islam is well known. The following points explain various aspects of this prohibition:

1. Pork prohibited in Qur'ân
The Qur'ân prohibits the consumption of pork in no less than 4 different places. It is prohibited in 2:173, 5:3, 6:145 and 16:115.

"Forbidden to you (for food) are: dead meat, blood, the flesh of swine, and that on which hath been invoked the name of other than Allah." [Al-Qur'ân 5:3]

The above verses of the Holy Qur'ân are sufficient to satisfy a Muslim as to why pork is forbidden.

2. Pork prohibited in the Bible

The Christian is likely to be convinced by his religious scriptures. The Bible prohibits the consumption of pork, in the book of Leviticus
"And the swine, though he divide the hoof, and be cloven footed, yet he cheweth not the cud; he is unclean to you". "Of their flesh shall ye not eat, and their carcass shall ye not touch, they are unclean to you." [Leviticus 11:7-8]

Pork is also prohibited in the Bible in the book of Deuteronomy

"And the swine, because it divideth the hoof, yet cheweth not the cud, it is unclean unto you. Ye shall not eat of their flesh, nor touch their dead carcass." [Deuteronomy 14:8]

A similar prohibition is repeated in the Bible in the book of Isaiah chapter 65 verse 2-5.

3. Consumption of pork causes several diseases
The other non-Muslims and atheists will agree only if convinced through reason, logic and science. Eating of pork can cause no less than seventy different types of diseases. A person can have various helminthes like roundworm, pinworm, hookworm, etc. One of the most dangerous is Taenia Solium, which is in lay man’s terminology called tapeworm. It harbours in the intestine and is very long. Its ova i.e. eggs, enter the blood stream and can reach almost all the organs of the body. If it enters the brain it can cause memory loss. If it enters the heart it can cause heart attack, if it enters the eye it can cause blindness, if it enters the liver it can cause liver damage. It can damage almost all the organs of the body.

Another dangerous helminthes is Trichura Tichurasis. A common misconception about pork is that if it is cooked well, these ova die. In a research project undertaken in America, it was found that out of twenty-four people suffering from Trichura Tichurasis, twenty two had cooked the pork very well. This indicates that the ova present in the pork do not die under normal cooking temperature.

4. Pork has fat building material
Pork has very little muscle building material and contains excess of fat. This fat gets deposited in the vessels and can cause hypertension and heart attack. It is not surprising that over 50% of Americans suffer from hypertension.

5. Pig is one of the filthiest animals on earth
The pig is one of the filthiest animals on earth. It lives and thrives on muck, faeces and dirt. It is the best scavenger that I know that God has produced. In the villages they don’t have modern toilets and the villagers excrete in the open air. Very often excreta is cleared by pigs.

Some may argue that in advanced countries like Australia, pigs are bred in very clean and hygienic conditions. Even in these hygienic conditions the pigs are kept together in sties. No matter how hard you try to keep them clean they are filthy by nature. They eat and enjoy their own as well as their neighbour’s excreta.

6. Pig is the most shameless animal
The pig is the most shameless animal on the face of the earth. It is the only animal that invites its friends to have sex with its mate. In America, most people consume pork. Many times after dance parties, they have swapping of wives; i.e. many say "you sleep with my wife and I will sleep with your wife." If you eat pigs then you behave like pigs. We Indians look upon America to be very advanced and sophisticated. Whatever they do, we follow after a few years. According to an article in Island magazine, this practice of swapping wives has become common in the affluent circles of Bombay.

source

[HeiGou]

That's mistranslation and furthermore, it is not an obligatory issue from the pov of Quran.

Really? What is the right translation then? Why is it so many Muslim scholars failed to notice this was a mistranslation until you (or Jamal Badawi I assume) did?

Another mistranslation.

See above.

That depends on the situation and context... in general it is not compulsory.

Really? Can all the hudd punishments be gotten around so easily?

Another mistranlsation and taken out of context.

See above.

I didn't check translation and context, but why adultery should be acceptable in the first place? Which one is worse: discouraging through flogging or killing millions of unwanted babies every year through abortion?

This is a logical falacy called the Excluded Middle. Just because someone has mentioned one extreme policy, it does not make sense to insist that the only alternative is another extreme. The West used to have very low abortion rates and still did not flog adulterers.

And the reference is wrong - married adulterers should be stoned surely?

[j4763]

Pork is not the only meat that carries disease. What about beef, it can carry BSE (and tape worms), and chicken i'm sure you've herd something about "bird flu". All animals can carry some sort of disease so i guess eating fruit/veg is the only way? But then we were born with caine teeth for consumption of meat.

Regard to wrong translations (wife beating, stoning...etc), can anyone provide the correct translations?

[Chuck]

Really? What is the right translation then? Why is it so many Muslim scholars failed to notice this was a mistranslation until you (or Jamal Badawi I assume) did?

You should ask them who failed to notice this, I can't give an answer on their behalf. However:
1. Same word has been translated as "part" for Moses (pbuh) parting the sea.
2. Take any old comprehensive arabic dictionary (before Jamal Badawi or I were born) and you will see that the word used in that verse also means part, seperate, or leave.
3. Separate or leave the wife makes more sense with the flow since it comes right after separating from bed.
4. Prophet (pbuh) said: "It is better for a leader to make a mistake in forgiving than to make a mistake in punishing." (Al-Tirmidhi) In other words, scholars (or any other person) should consider lenient translation deducing anything from Quran if it has multiple meaning.

This word has almost universally been translated here as "beating". Such a translation is supported by some passages in the Qur'an where the word does mean smiting or striking (2:60, 61, 73, 8:12, 50, 7:160 etc). But in many other Qur'anic passages there are other meanings of the word. Thus the word can mean constructing or coining something such as coining mathal or similitude (14:24, 16:75-76, 30:28, 36:27 etc). The word is also used to separate two things. In 20:77 it is used of the splitting of the sea to make a way for the children of Israel to escape and in 57:13 it is used of making a wall to separate the two groups of people in the hereafter. Leaving, withdrawing or taking away is the meaning in 43:5. In 13:17 the word is used of separating truth and falsehood. The word can also mean campaigning or traveling in the land, e.g., for the purpose of trade (2:273, 73:20).

In the present context, the Qur'anic usage allows two meanings:
1) separating from the wives in the sense of living apart from them,
2) beating them.
3) The Arabic language also allows a third meaning: have sex with them.

The first meaning fits the context well, for some kind of physical separation is a very understandable step after suspension of sexual relations does not work. The second meaning is more natural from a linguistic point of view and has the support of a strong consensus among the commentators. The third meaning has no support in the Qur'anic usage.

See full article for more information: http://www.islamicperspectives.com/Quran-4-34.htm

See above.

The proper translation is 'protectors' since it was reveled at the time when muslims were looking towards Jews in Madina to help them fight against the Makkans.

Regarding making non-muslim friends there is another verse that clarifies this issue:

"Allah forbids you not, With regard to those who Fight you not for (your) Faith Nor drive you out Of your homes, From dealing kindly and justly With them: For Allah loveth Those who are just. (The Noble Quran, 60:8)"

The above verse clearly leaves out those non-muslims who don't fight us.

Furthermore Quran states:

Not all of them are alike: Of the People of the Book [Jews and Christians] are a portion that stand (For the right): They rehearse the Signs of God all night long, and they prostrate themselves in adoration. They believe in God and the Last Day; they enjoin what is right, and forbid what is wrong; and they hasten (in emulation) in (all) good works: They are in the ranks of the righteous. (The Noble Quran, 3:113-114)

Why would Allah stop us from making friends whom Allah ranks with the righteous?

Really? Can all the hudd punishments be gotten around so easily?

-------------------

See above.

Here is an article that explains how Islamic law works: http://www.islamic-study.org/Islamic%20Penal%20Law.htm

I'll quote some passages:

Let us illustrate the psychological effect of the severity of punishment on people’s behavior. According to Islamic law, the maximum penalty for professional theft is cutting hands. It should be understood that this policy does not mean that for every theft there is a hand to be cut. The judge exercises other forms of penalties such as imprisonments or fines.
...............................
Flexibility and Ambiguity
Relaxing or stiffening a penalty for a particular violation is an integral part of the Islamic Law. Penalty in the Islamic Law is dependent on the nature of the crime. Factors such as severity of damage, the background of the violator, his or her intent and repeatability, play a major role in determining the extent of the penalty.

Furthermore, The Prophet said: “Avoid (the maximum) penalty (hudud) on the account of ambiguity (shubuhat).” Since the punishment is mainly used as deterrent, if the intent of the law in a particular case is fulfilled, the judge then has the discretion to apply a lower sentence and avoid the maximum penalty.

This is a logical falacy called the Excluded Middle. Just because someone has mentioned one extreme policy, it does not make sense to insist that the only alternative is another extreme. The West used to have very low abortion rates and still did not flog adulterers.

I don't have the time to check the demographics, social issues, and abortion rate of every country, but estimated current global monthly average 1,225,000 abortions is quiet high (source). And muslims countries doesn't have abortion rates, but here is something interesting:

Because Muslims are not as promiscuous as the rest of the human race they have largely avoided AIDS. While there is some danger that most of a generation in some sub-Sahara countries will die of AIDS, the rate of infection in Muslim countries is typically less than one in a thousand adults.

Source: http://www.geocities.com/richleebruce/b/islam.html

We have managed to relatively avoid AIDS; perhaps we are doing something right.

And the reference is wrong - married adulterers should be stoned surely?

1. Quran doesn't state stoning for married adulterers.
2. In an argument someone brought a point that the word used in the Quran for adulterers is applicable to both married and non-married.
3. Hadiths doesn't make it clear when the stoning punishment was used: when Muslims were following Mosaic Law in this matter or after the revelation of the verse on adultery.
4. Prophet (pbuh) said that if a ruler/leader/judge makes a mistake than he should make it in forgiveness rather than punishment.

In the light of above points I'm not in favor of stoning married adulterers.

[HeiGou]

You should ask them who failed to notice this, I can't give an answer on their behalf. However:
1. Same word has been translated as "part" for Moses (pbuh) parting the sea.
2. Take any old comprehensive arabic dictionary (before Jamal Badawi or I were born) and you will see that the word used in that verse also means part, seperate, or leave.

Actually I can just take a few recent translations,

004.034
YUSUFALI: Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has given the one more (strength) than the other, and because they support them from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient, and guard in (the husband's) absence what Allah would have them guard. As to those women on whose part ye fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (Next), refuse to share their beds, (And last) beat them (lightly); but if they return to obedience, seek not against them Means (of annoyance): For Allah is Most High, great (above you all).
PICKTHAL: Men are in charge of women, because Allah hath made the one of them to excel the other, and because they spend of their property (for the support of women). So good women are the obedient, guarding in secret that which Allah hath guarded. As for those from whom ye fear rebellion, admonish them and banish them to beds apart, and scourge them. Then if they obey you, seek not a way against them. Lo! Allah is ever High, Exalted, Great.
SHAKIR: Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great.

But if I was uninterested in doing that, I could look at your source, which says

"beat them or separate them (from you)". If even suspension of sexual relations fails to work, then it is suggested that men use dharb. This word has almost universally been translated here as "beating". Such a translation is supported by some passages in the Qur'an where the word does mean smiting or striking (2:60, 61, 73, 8:12, 50, 7:160 etc). But in many other Qur'anic passages there are other meanings of the word. Thus the word can mean constructing or coining something such as coining mathal or similitude (14:24, 16:75-76, 30:28, 36:27 etc). The word is also used to separate two things. In 20:77 it is used of the splitting of the sea to make a way for the children of Israel to escape and in 57:13 it is used of making a wall to separate the two groups of people in the hereafter. Leaving, withdrawing or taking away is the meaning in 43:5. In 13:17 the word is used of separating truth and falsehood. The word can also mean campaigning or traveling in the land, e.g., for the purpose of trade (2:273, 73:20).

So it is almost universally translated as beating. The main meaning is to strike. The secondary one is simply extensions of that (you "strike" coins in English based on the old fashioned method of producing them by hitting a disk with a hammer). Once it is used to separate the sea (perhaps Moses hit it with his staff?). It is also used for a few other words that do not immediately seem to have a lot to do with beating. But the main meaning seems clear to me.

3. Separate or leave the wife makes more sense with the flow since it comes right after separating from bed.

I think that beating makes more sence - trying reasoning, trying emotional coldness, then beat. But it is probably a matter of opinion. Your sources admits to "almost universally".

4. Prophet (pbuh) said: "It is better for a leader to make a mistake in forgiving than to make a mistake in punishing." (Al-Tirmidhi) In other words, scholars (or any other person) should consider lenient translation deducing anything from Quran if it has multiple meaning.

I would support that as a concept if I were a Muslim but it is not my problem because I am not.

In the present context, the Qur'anic usage allows two meanings:
1) separating from the wives in the sense of living apart from them,
2) beating them.
3) The Arabic language also allows a third meaning: have sex with them.

The first meaning fits the context well, for some kind of physical separation is a very understandable step after suspension of sexual relations does not work. The second meaning is more natural from a linguistic point of view and has the support of a strong consensus among the commentators. The third meaning has no support in the Qur'anic usage.

Right. So it is not a mistranslation, it is a poor choice of possible translations?

The proper translation is 'protectors' since it was reveled at the time when muslims were looking towards Jews in Madina to help them fight against the Makkans.

So you are saying it has been abrogated?

I don't have the time to check the demographics, social issues, and abortion rate of every country, but estimated current global monthly average 1,225,000 abortions is quiet high (source).

I admit something has gone wrong with the West now, but I said that the West used to have low abortion rates without flogging. Excluded middle remember?

And muslims countries doesn't have abortion rates, but here is something interesting:

Because Muslims are not as promiscuous as the rest of the human race they have largely avoided AIDS. While there is some danger that most of a generation in some sub-Sahara countries will die of AIDS, the rate of infection in Muslim countries is typically less than one in a thousand adults. ]

Source: http://www.geocities.com/richleebruce/b/islam.html

We have managed to relatively avoid AIDS; perhaps we are doing something right.

Perhaps. Circumcision does seem to protect people from AIDS whether Muslim or not. However are you sure about those AIDS figures?

If you look at http://www.unaids.org/en/default.asp it looks as if North Africa and the Middle East have the same rate of AIDS infection as Western Europe.

1. Quran doesn't state stoning for married adulterers.

I have never been able to find a reference to it but I have been told it was abrogated but it still applies so I guess it is in spirit.

[Rou]

It was my understanding that in the time of Mohammad pigs had a parasite. Is this true? Well, this is no longer the case, so I don't understand the prohibition.

In regards to pork being forbidden in the bible, torrah, and koran, this is true. However, did you ever stop to think what your life would REALLY be like if you obeyed ALL the rules and regulations mentioned in the bible, torrah, or koran? I think we all have a tendency to pick and choose the ones we want to incorporate into our lives.

I would be a happier man lol...


Within the quran there are rules that are optional or ones that come into force at diffrent times for example in time of war...

However there are some clear cut rules pork is forbidden out of so many creatures that are allowed it is one that has been forbidden for gods divine ruling...

Out of the rules as you say if you were going to ease up on some this would not be one of them....

Where as much is allowed and one is forbidden yet this rule is broken?? does not really make sense...

I i offered you all the gold in the world but forbid you one coin why touch the coin?

It is a betrayl of god through the basic of human nature...greed...

there are tests that is what this life is made of...

And the rules are clear...

[renak]

I would be a happier man lol...


Within the quran there are rules that are optional or ones that come into force at diffrent times for example in time of war...

However there are some clear cut rules pork is forbidden out of so many creatures that are allowed it is one that has been forbidden for gods divine ruling...

Out of the rules as you say if you were going to ease up on some this would not be one of them....

Where as much is allowed and one is forbidden yet this rule is broken?? does not really make sense...

I i offered you all the gold in the world but forbid you one coin why touch the coin?

It is a betrayl of god through the basic of human nature...greed...

there are tests that is what this life is made of...

And the rules are clear...

I respect your adherence to this rule. I sometimes like to justify everything I like to do via debate and research.;D

[Rou]

Hi. If the deen has been made easy, why are there so many differences in opinions? Thanks.

There is no diffrence of opinions when it comes to such clear rules within the quran...it is the extra belifs that are discussed not what is within the quran...

Misintrepretation can be a cause of debate but not an overall diffrence in opinion within sects...

Sunni and shia debate over what came after the quran majority of the time not the quran...

[renak]

There is no diffrence of opinions when it comes to such clear rules within the quran...it is the extra belifs that are discussed not what is within the quran...

Misintrepretation can be a cause of debate but not an overall diffrence in opinion within sects...

Sunni and shia debate over what came after the quran majority of the time not the quran...

Thanks. You clarified a lot for me.

[Makky]

The main reason for all haram things in our Deen is That allah is examining us .

if we are going to obey him or not

yet sceince showed us some benifets of the shari

[Rou]

Surah 4:43 - A man may punish his wife by beating her.

For one that is not the exact translation its not quite that simple that is on the basis that adultry has been commited...

In a world where any man could do anything to his wife wether it be beat her for fun out of anger or madness a ruling was stated to adhear to a law..

try to understand the time and the life of that time... and perhaps you may see this law as a clamp on the hands of many men instead of a freedom of a man to beat his wife...

Surah 5:51 - Muslim must not take a Jew or a a Christian for a friend .

This is not correct... the word was unbeleivers and who is to say what that catogery that holds.. apart from that to read a sentence will not explain
a book...

Many adhear to such verses yet they forget the message of the book? you question such verses yet i hear no one honour those where it says to protect jews and chritsians to get along as fllow beleivers in the one god?

"009.006
And if anyone of the idolaters seeketh thy protection (O Muhammad), then protect him so that he may hear the Word of Allah, and afterward convey him to his place of safety. That is because they are a folk who know not."

003.064
"O People of the Book! come to common terms as between us and you: That we worship none but Allah; that we associate no partners with him; that we erect not, from among ourselves, Lords and patrons other than Allah." If then they turn back, say ye: "Bear witness that we (at least) are Muslims (bowing to Allah's Will).

I see no one mention the calls for all who beleive in the one god to be at peace with each other??

003.067
YUSUFALI: Abraham was not a Jew nor yet a Christian; but he was true in Faith, and bowed his will to Allah's (Which is Islam), and he joined not gods with Allah.

A common call..yet does it fall on deaf ears...

the
Surah 5:38 - Stealing is punished by the amputation of the hands.

?? this is purely your opinion i am a seeker of peace however justice seems not served by light handedness we have seen what the world has become by allowing those who abuse our laws to get away with it time and time again...

Rapists who destroy peoples lives are given 6 years when the victim is given life..i hear no cries to protect the innocent as much as i hear the cries for the wrong doers.... i understand this to be a matter of opinion however to be light handed has not worked...i ask not for the cutting of hands on every call of a thief neither does the quran there must be witness's and a court ruling i am no enemy of justice...

Surah 5:33 - Resisting Islam is punished by death, crucifixion or the cutting off of the hands and feet .

I have no need to explain this verse i will merely show u the true translation -

005.033
The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger, and strive with might and main for mischief through the land is: execution, or crucifixion, or the cutting off of hands and feet from opposite sides, or exile from the land: that is their disgrace in this world, and a heavy punishment is theirs in the Hereafter;

Surah 24:2 - Adultery is punished by public flogging.

Such a dishonour should be punished in this way a betrayl of the heart..when one is true to you and the other betrays not only there patners heart but the holy binding that has taken place with allah to witness...

A law that is permissed upon both sex's Male and female...

024.002
The adulterer and the adulteress, scourge ye each one of them (with) a hundred stripes. And let not pity for the twain withhold you from obedience to Allah, if ye believe in Allah and the Last Day. And let a party of believers witness their punishment.

You think allah allows muslims to hurt innocents? to beat women?
He makes it our duty to protect the honour of women in particular..

024.004 And those who accuse honourable women but bring not four witnesses, scourge them (with) eighty stripes and never (afterward) accept their testimony - They indeed are evil-doers -

Life is not simple nor is it always peacful The message is to live with honour and harm not the innocent...

The message is justice...

I hope this helped...

[Rou]

Thanks. You clarified a lot for me.

Thank you for your respect...

[Muhammad]

Greetings renak,

You might be happy to hear that we actually have a few articles or discussions on the verses you quoted, so they should help to further clarify for you:

Surah 4:43 - A man may punish his wife by beating her

http://www.islamicboard.com/refutati...erse-34-a.html

http://www.islamicboard.com/marriage...e-beating.html

Surah 5:51 - Muslim must not take a Jew or a a Christian for a friend

http://www.load-islam.com/C/rebuttals/Misquoted/#19

Surah 5:38 - Stealing is punished by the amputation of the hands

http://www.islamicboard.com/basics-i...ariah-law.html

http://www.islamicboard.com/comparat...rgiveness.html

Surah 24:2 - Adultery is punished by public flogging

http://www.islamicboard.com/basics-i...ent-islam.html

Surah 5:33 - Resisting Islam is punished by death, crucifixion or the cutting off of the hands and feet

http://www.islamicboard.com/refutati...-violence.html

http://www.load-islam.com/C/rebuttals/Misquoted/#17

Islam and Apostasy

Of course I could post many more quotes from the Quran and Bible. This is why I am asserting that Muslims and Christians follow only part of the rules in their holy books.

Note that Islam is a complete way of life, and therefore no part of it is impractical or hard to practice as it is a revelation from God. It is not permitted to only follow part of the Book and leave off what we don't like, as this is an action for which previous nations were rebuked in the Qur'an:

[2.85] ... Do you then believe in a part of the Book and disbelieve in the other? What then is the reward of such among you as do this but disgrace in the life of this world, and on the day of resurrection they shall be sent back to the most grievous chastisement, and Allah is not at all heedless of what you do.

I hope that has been helpful,

Peace.

[------]

Woah a heated discussion going on here... But some good references nevertheless! [BANANA]Jazakallah![/BANANA]

[HeiGou]

Why pork is forbidden by God in Judaism and Islam is an interesting question.
It is very easy to understand why blood is forbidden but why is pork?

Of course all the "medical" reasons look more like excuses for muslims who seem to be ill at ease with a prohibition they do not understand. Pork eating Westerners are among the longest living and healthiest people on earth.

My explanation (until I find a better one) is that in prehistoric times the pig was a very important animal. It was so important that it became "sacred" and became a taboo animal, in a similar way as the cow in Hinduism.
In the course of centuries the sacredness of the animal was lost and only remained the taboo on its eating. The sacredness changed into an impurity. That change from good to bad in known in the history of religion. For example lesser gods in polytheistic religions can become devils in subsequent stages.

Except Jews and Muslims hate pigs whereas Indians love cows (and northern Westerners have a memory of horse-worship and so do not eat, and love, them too).

It is more likely that the prohibition is a way of distinguishing between nomads and farmers. Jews presumably were nomadic at one point - Hebrew may come from a term related to nomad. Pigs are necessary, or at least highly important, as part of any long-term agricultural system of production. But pigs cannot be herded like sheep, they need constant water supplies because they do not sweat and so can't be kept in the desert and so are useless to nomads. As any nomad will tell you nomads have all the honor, farmers have none. So by not eating pork, they are showing they are the real aristocrats. Arabs took up this prohibition which is entirely in keeping with bedouin culture while Christians, when they started to convert non-nomadic Western farmers, did not.

By perhaps a total coincidence Islam also does not like dogs. While near-by in Iran the Zoroastrians did. Again a prohibition drives a wedge between the two communities.

[------]

I also noticed that the muslim dislike of dogs could be related to the pig.

In what way...:?

[HeiGou]

I explained that at first the pig had a statute similar to the cow in Hinduism. The cow remained "sacred" but not the pig.

Except there is still the difference that the cow and the horse in India and northern Europe are respected. The pig is not.

I heard that the prohibition of pig came from Egypt, where the opposition between nomadic and sedentary population does not exist.

Pigs in Ancient Egypt
by Marie Parsons
There is some divided speculation about the existence and usage of pigs in ancient Egypt. Was the Set-animal a pig, and therefore was the creature considered taboo since Set was thought to be an "evil" god? Was the pig connected with trichinosis and therefore thought unfit to eat? Was it simply considered unclean because of its particular habits? Did it exist at all in Egypt?

It is very unlikely that the ancients knew of any connection between trichinosis and eating undercooked pork. There is no evidence they had any taboo against more toxic materials or that they even knew of the existence of such dangers. Pigs were herded, raised, and occasionally eaten, throughout Egypt from the Predynastic period into the Late Period and Graeco-Roman times.

The local breed of domestic pig in ancient Egypt descended from an indigenous ancestor, sus scrofa, the Wild Boar. It was once abundant in the country and had a fairly extensive range throughout the Nile Valley, in the Delta, the Faiyum and the Wadi Natrun. The species only became locally extinct around the turn of the 20th century ACE, due to over-hunting and loss of its prime habitat.

The oldest domestic pig remains presently known in Egypt come from the large Predynastic settlement site of Merimda Beni Salama in the western Delta, dated to the fifth millennium BCE. Pig remains have been found throughout Egypt at sites such as Hierakonpolis, Maadi, Abydos, and Armant, near graves belonging to the poorer classes, indicating that pork was an element in their diet, at least at the Predynastic period. Cattle bones were found in graves belonging to more elite burials.

If there was a prohibition against eating pigs among the upper classes, there was none against raising them. In the early Fourth Dynasty tomb-chapel of Metjen at Saqqara, the deceased states that he received a bequest from his father that included "people, small livestock and pigs." The Eleventh Dynasty tomb of the nomarch Khety at Beni Hasan depicts a herd of pigs, the first in Egyptian art since the First Dynasty. Yet, while pig-farming continued on during the Old and Middle Kingdom periods, swine are conspicuously absent from the scenes of daily life that cover the walls of tomb-chapels of the upper classes and do not appear in the somewhat extensive offering lists. The explanation may be as simple as the fact that pigs are associated with grubbing in the dirt and rolling in the muck, perhaps considered unclean activities.

Pig-farming expanded during the New Kingdom. Inscriptions indicate that temples and wealthy citizens maintained large numbers of them on their country estates, and tomb-chapels of several nobles from the early 18th dynasty illustrate swine as well as other farmyard animals. The mayor of el-Kab relates that he owned a herd of fifteen hundred pigs. A temple of Amenhotep III at Memphis was endowed with some 1000 pigs and 1000 piglets, and the mortuary temple of Seti I at Abydos held large herds of swine on its domains.

Pigs are also shown in use for farming itself, as they tread seed into the soil, even into the time of Herodotus. Inscriptions on ostraca and other findings indicate that the workers at Deir el-Medina occasionally indulged in meals of pork.

So pigs were bred, raised and occasionally eaten in different places. What of the religious connection? Votive faience pig figurines dating to the first dynasty have been recovered Pigs in Ancient Egyptfrom Abydos, Hierakonpolis, and Elephantine Island. The figurines from Abydos were found by Petrie inside what he considered to be the sacred compound of the god Osiris.

The Egyptian Museum in Berlin also holds a ceramic statue, dated to the Naqada I period, of what has been called a pig deity, indicating at least that swine formed a part of religious life at this time. The Brooklyn Museum also possesses a cylinder seal dated to the First Dynasty that displays figures of bristling pigs carved on it, and other seals from this period also depict pigs.

According to some traditions, the god Min, most associated with the city of Coptos in Upper Egypt, was born of a white sow. In a charm against snake bite, he is described as son "of the white sow of Heliopolis/Iunu" which is a form of the goddess Isis.

Pigs in Ancient EgyptThe god Set appears as a pig with erect bristles in the Annals of King Sahure of the fifth Dynasty on the Palermo Stone. The passage is translated in Marshall Clagett’s volume as follows: …"The first occurrence of going to the South and Inventorying the House of Horus-Set." The accompanying note indicates that this is not a certain rendering, since instead of a falcon-sign for Horus, there is an owl, and the sign for Set is presumably a pig, though it also resembles an anteater. If the translation does refer to a House of Horus-Set, perhaps at this time Set was not considered "evil."

Beginning in the Third Intermediate Period, statuettes and amulets of a rooting sow nursing her litter were popular, representing the sky goddess Nut. Conversely, spells in the Coffin Texts and in the Book of Going Forth By Day (Book of the Dead) show Set turning himself into a boar, leading some scholars to speculate that the pig’s connection with "evil" forms the true basis of its small use in food consumption and temple offerings.

The god Set, associated with the pig in iconography, was by the Late Period and the Hellenistic age in Egypt to be the "evil" murderer of the god Osiris, and the adversary of the god Horus. Yet, Seti I had been perhaps a priest of Set—certainly his name meant "Man of Set," and he was not considered an evil king. Set also continued to be worshiped at Ombos and Tanis and other locations.

Pigs in Ancient EgyptThe question as to whether or not the pig was taboo becomes murkier perhaps when it is considered that the animal played a part in medicine. The Ebers Papyrus lists humor of "pig’s eyes" to be injected into the ear to cure blindness. Another prescription for the eyes included the blood of pigs. Pig’s tooth and other ingredients were crushed and bandaged onto infected parts of the body to expel exudations, perhaps a reference to pus or eczema. Pig’s viscera, including the brain, was an ingredient in another cure to combat a form of cancer.

As in today’s western culture, where "Pork" is getting a face-lift being called "the second white meat" in order to boost its consumption, perhaps more study of the place of the pig in ancient Egyptian society will uncover new information.

Sources:

* Oxford Encyclopedia of Ancient Egypt
* Animals in Ancient Egypt by Patrick Houlihan
* Dictionary of Ancient Egyptian Gods and Goddesses by George Hart
* Ancient Egyptian Science, Vol I, by Marshall Clagett
* Food: the Gift of Osiris by William J. Darby, Paul Ghalioungui and Louis Grivetti

And there has always been some tension between nomads and sedentary people in Egypt. This is why the guarded Sinai so carefully.

I also noticed that the muslim dislike of dogs could be related to the pig.

As the sister said, how so? Unlike pigs, nomads need dogs.

[Rou]

Hei Gou

I explained that at first the pig had a statute similar to the cow in Hinduism. The cow remained "sacred" but not the pig.

I heard that the prohibition of pig came from Egypt, where the opposition between nomadic and sedentary population does not exist.

Even if Jews/Hebrews were nomadic at one time (to which extent?) they intermingled with the Canaanites to the point of adopting their language.

I also noticed that the muslim dislike of dogs could be related to the pig.

Muslims are not to eat swine as it is stated within the quran as anunclean animal. its dislike is what has developed over a period of time i guess...

However a dog is not disliked the dog its self is mentioned within the quran many times but not as unclean animal..

the dog itself is not unclean it is its spit that is to be stayed away from...

[justahumane]

Why is the eating of pork forbidden in Islam?
Answer..
The fact that consumption of pork is prohibited in Islam is well known. The following points explain various aspects of this prohibition:

1. Pork prohibited in Qur'ân
The Qur'ân prohibits the consumption of pork in no less than 4 different places. It is prohibited in 2:173, 5:3, 6:145 and 16:115.

"Forbidden to you (for food) are: dead meat, blood, the flesh of swine, and that on which hath been invoked the name of other than Allah." [Al-Qur'ân 5:3]

The above verses of the Holy Qur'ân are sufficient to satisfy a Muslim as to why pork is forbidden.

2. Pork prohibited in the Bible

The Christian is likely to be convinced by his religious scriptures. The Bible prohibits the consumption of pork, in the book of Leviticus
"And the swine, though he divide the hoof, and be cloven footed, yet he cheweth not the cud; he is unclean to you". "Of their flesh shall ye not eat, and their carcass shall ye not touch, they are unclean to you." [Leviticus 11:7-8]

Pork is also prohibited in the Bible in the book of Deuteronomy

"And the swine, because it divideth the hoof, yet cheweth not the cud, it is unclean unto you. Ye shall not eat of their flesh, nor touch their dead carcass." [Deuteronomy 14:8]

A similar prohibition is repeated in the Bible in the book of Isaiah chapter 65 verse 2-5.

3. Consumption of pork causes several diseases
The other non-Muslims and atheists will agree only if convinced through reason, logic and science. Eating of pork can cause no less than seventy different types of diseases. A person can have various helminthes like roundworm, pinworm, hookworm, etc. One of the most dangerous is Taenia Solium, which is in lay man’s terminology called tapeworm. It harbours in the intestine and is very long. Its ova i.e. eggs, enter the blood stream and can reach almost all the organs of the body. If it enters the brain it can cause memory loss. If it enters the heart it can cause heart attack, if it enters the eye it can cause blindness, if it enters the liver it can cause liver damage. It can damage almost all the organs of the body.

Another dangerous helminthes is Trichura Tichurasis. A common misconception about pork is that if it is cooked well, these ova die. In a research project undertaken in America, it was found that out of twenty-four people suffering from Trichura Tichurasis, twenty two had cooked the pork very well. This indicates that the ova present in the pork do not die under normal cooking temperature.

4. Pork has fat building material
Pork has very little muscle building material and contains excess of fat. This fat gets deposited in the vessels and can cause hypertension and heart attack. It is not surprising that over 50% of Americans suffer from hypertension.

5. Pig is one of the filthiest animals on earth
The pig is one of the filthiest animals on earth. It lives and thrives on muck, faeces and dirt. It is the best scavenger that I know that God has produced. In the villages they don’t have modern toilets and the villagers excrete in the open air. Very often excreta is cleared by pigs.

Some may argue that in advanced countries like Australia, pigs are bred in very clean and hygienic conditions. Even in these hygienic conditions the pigs are kept together in sties. No matter how hard you try to keep them clean they are filthy by nature. They eat and enjoy their own as well as their neighbour’s excreta.

6. Pig is the most shameless animal
The pig is the most shameless animal on the face of the earth. It is the only animal that invites its friends to have sex with its mate. In America, most people consume pork. Many times after dance parties, they have swapping of wives; i.e. many say "you sleep with my wife and I will sleep with your wife." If you eat pigs then you behave like pigs. We Indians look upon America to be very advanced and sophisticated. Whatever they do, we follow after a few years. According to an article in Island magazine, this practice of swapping wives has become common in the affluent circles of Bombay. source

Sister I think that u have copy pasted this answer from dr. Zakir Naik's IRF site. I will request any honourable member if he can clarify how come that Dr. Naik knows that pig invites his friends to have sex with his mates???????? Naturally it is supposed to be true coz such a great scholer of islam cant speak lies after starting with Bismillah, but I want any proof of his particular statement. if anyone can provide.

Thanks.

[HeiGou]

1. Pork prohibited in Qur'ân

5. Pig is one of the filthiest animals on earth
The pig is one of the filthiest animals on earth. It lives and thrives on muck, faeces and dirt. It is the best scavenger that I know that God has produced. In the villages they don’t have modern toilets and the villagers excrete in the open air. Very often excreta is cleared by pigs.

Oh I don't know. Chickens are pretty good scavengers too. Even better than pigs actually.

6. Pig is the most shameless animal
The pig is the most shameless animal on the face of the earth. It is the only animal that invites its friends to have sex with its mate. In America, most people consume pork. Many times after dance parties, they have swapping of wives; i.e. many say "you sleep with my wife and I will sleep with your wife." If you eat pigs then you behave like pigs. We Indians look upon America to be very advanced and sophisticated. Whatever they do, we follow after a few years. According to an article in Island magazine, this practice of swapping wives has become common in the affluent circles of Bombay.

Has anyone who writes this tripe actually seen a male pig? I assure you there is precisely no chance they will ever invite another male pig to have sex with their sows. Pigs are usually kept in small groups with one male only for a very good reason. In the wild boars have tusks. These are useful for digging but their main use is to rip the guts out of other male pigs. Boars can kill horses and have done so when hunted by humans. They have killed Kings and peasants alike. They do not tolerate even the presence of another male asult pig in the vicinity.

[j4763]

the dog itself is not unclean it is its spit that is to be stayed away from...

Why is this? Afaik the dogs spit was used on open wounds during ww1 as it contains a natural antiseptic.

[M H Kahn]

WHY IS PORK FORBIDDEN IN ISLAM?

Bob: Tell me why is it that a Muslim is very particular about the words Halaal and Haraam; what do they mean?

Yunus: That which is permissible is termed Halaal and that which i not permissible is termed Haraam and it is the Quran which draws the distinction between the two.

Bob: Can you give me an example?

"Yunus: Yes, Islam has prohibited ! blood of any type. You will agree "that a chemical analysis of blood shows that it contains an abundance of uric acid, a chemical substance which can be injurious to human health. "

"Bob: You're right about the toxic nature of uric acid, in the human being it is excreted as a waste product and in fact we are told that 98% of the body's uric acid is extracted from the blood by the kidneys and removed through urination.

Yunus: Now I think that you'll appreciate the special prescribed method of animal slaughter in Islam.

Bob: What do you mean?

"Yunus: You see, the wielder of the knife, whilst taking the name of the 'Almighty', makes an incision through the jugular veins, leaving all
other veins and organs intact.

"Bob: I see, this causes the death of the animal by a total loss of blood from the! body, rather than an injury to any vital organ. "

"Yunus: Yes, were the organs, example the heart, the liver, or the brain crippled or damaged, the animal could die immediately and its blood
would congeal in its veins and would eventually permeate the flesh. This implies that the animal flesh would be permeated and contaminated with
uric acid and therefore very poisonous; only today did our dietitians realize such a thing.


"Bob: Again, while on the topic of food; Why do Muslims condemn the eating of pork or ham or any foods related to pigs or swine.

"Yunus: Actually, apart from the Quran prohibiting the consumption of pork,bacon (pig flesh); in fact the Bible too in Leviticus chapter 11, verse 8, regarding swine it says, ""of their flesh (of the swine another name for pig)shall you not eat, and of their carcass you shall not touch; they are " unclean to you."" " Further, did you know that a pig cannot be slaughtered at the neck for it does not have a neck; that is according to its natural anatomy. A Muslim reasons that if the pig was
to be slaughtered and fit for human consumption the Creator would have provided it with a neck.

" Nonetheless, all that aside, I am sure you are well informed about the harmful effects of the consumption of pork, in any form, be it pork chops, ham, bacon.

Bob: The medical science finds that there is a risk for various diseases as the pig is found to be a host for many parasites and potential diseases.

"Yunus: Yes, even apart from that, as we talked about uric acid content in the blood, it is important to note that the pig's biochemistry
excretes only 2% of its total uric acid content,
the remaining 98% remains as an integral part of the body.

I hope you benefited and may Allah guide us all...Ameen.. :)

You cannot give such justifications as to why Allah has forbidden the pork. Has Allah made us known anywhere that the reasons you have outlined were taken into consideration by Him in forbidding pork for humans? Obviously not. Then is it not transgressing the limit set by Allah ? You have given justification as if revelation was made by Allah to that effect. But actually, there is none; all you have delineated is your own composition, but aired as Allah's reason. Had I wrongly done such an act of transgression, I would have repented, cried and sought Allah's forgiveness, as Allah says:

2:79 Then woe to those who write the Book with their own hands, and then say:"This is from God," to traffic with it for miserable price!- Woe to them for what their hands do write, and for the gain they make thereby."

[M H Kahn]

WHY IS PORK FORBIDDEN IN ISLAM?

Bob: Tell me why is it that a Muslim is very particular about the words Halaal and Haraam; what do they mean?
Yunus: That which is permissible is termed Halaal and that which i not permissible is termed Haraam and it is the Quran which draws the distinction between the two.
Bob: Can you give me an example?
"Yunus: Yes, Islam has prohibited ! blood of any type. You will agree "that a chemical analysis of blood shows that it contains an abundance of uric acid, a chemical substance which can be injurious to human health. "
"Bob: You're right about the toxic nature of uric acid, in the human being it is excreted as a waste product and in fact we are told that 98% of the body's uric acid is extracted from the blood by the kidneys and removed through urination.
Yunus: Now I think that you'll appreciate the special prescribed method of animal slaughter in Islam.
Bob: What do you mean?
"Yunus: You see, the wielder of the knife, whilst taking the name of the 'Almighty', makes an incision through the jugular veins, leaving all
other veins and organs intact.
"Bob: I see, this causes the death of the animal by a total loss of blood from the! body, rather than an injury to any vital organ. "
"Yunus: Yes, were the organs, example the heart, the liver, or the brain crippled or damaged, the animal could die immediately and its blood
would congeal in its veins and would eventually permeate the flesh. This implies that the animal flesh would be permeated and contaminated with
uric acid and therefore very poisonous; only today did our dietitians realize such a thing.
"Bob: Again, while on the topic of food; Why do Muslims condemn the eating of pork or ham or any foods related to pigs or swine.
"Yunus: Actually, apart from the Quran prohibiting the consumption of pork,bacon (pig flesh); in fact the Bible too in Leviticus chapter 11, verse 8, regarding swine it says, ""of their flesh (of the swine another name for pig)shall you not eat, and of their carcass you shall not touch; they are " unclean to you."" " Further, did you know that a pig cannot be slaughtered at the neck for it does not have a neck; that is according to its natural anatomy. A Muslim reasons that if the pig was
to be slaughtered and fit for human consumption the Creator would have provided it with a neck.

" Nonetheless, all that aside, I am sure you are well informed about the harmful effects of the consumption of pork, in any form, be it pork chops, ham, bacon.

Bob: The medical science finds that there is a risk for various diseases as the pig is found to be a host for many parasites and potential diseases.
"Yunus: Yes, even apart from that, as we talked about uric acid content in the blood, it is important to note that the pig's biochemistry
excretes only 2% of its total uric acid content,
the remaining 98% remains as an integral part of the body.
I hope you benefited and may Allah guide us all...Ameen.. :)

:sl:
You cannot give such justifications as to why Allah has forbidden the pork. Has Allah made us known anywhere that the reasons you have outlined were taken into consideration by Him in forbidding pork for humans? Obviously not. Then is it not transgressing the limit set by Allah ? You have given justification as if revelation was made by Allah to that effect. But actually, there is none; all you have delineated is your own composition, but aired as Allah's reason. Had I wrongly done such an act of transgression, I would have repented, cried and sought Allah's forgiveness, as Allah says:

2:79 Then woe to those who write the Book with their own hands, and then say:"This is from God," to traffic with it for miserable price!- Woe to them for what their hands do write, and for the gain they make thereby."

[IbnAbdulHakim]

heh

i aint read the debate but jus thot i'd mention,
even if pork wasnt forbidden i wouldnt eat an animal that chews on secretion, rolls on mud and lives in a completely foul way.
and neway the scientific flaws of eatin pork hav been stated so wat more is needed

:sl:

speakin ma mind ;D

[M H Kahn]

Of course all the "medical" reasons look more like excuses for muslims who seem to be ill at ease with a prohibition they do not understand. Pork eating Westerners are among the longest living and healthiest people on earth.

I have to agree with you here in that the justifications are personal opinions of the writer of the story, but spread as reasons of God's prohibition as if God has given such reason in any revelation.

Such man-made explanations are actually tantamount to interference in the realm of God with regard to what He has not made known to the humans. A believer cannot invent any whimsical justification in the name of science as to why Allah has given some order, whie Allah has not made the reasons known through any revelation or through his prohhet, and as such, this is like claiming to have known which Allah has kept unknown and clear transgression of the limit set by Allah for believing people. Spreading such invented explanations as (undisclosed) reasons for Allah's ordainment is but lies attributed to Him. This type of over invention has already caused much corruption in Islam and spread various innovations some of which are like associating partners with Allah, Who says in this regard:

4:48 "God forgiveth not that partners should be set up with Him; but He forgiveth anything else, to whom He pleaseth; to set up partners with God is to devise a sin Most heinous indeed."

6:82 "It is those who believe and confuse not their beliefs with wrong - that are (truly) in security, for they are on (right) guidance."

The right answer in such cases is: "And they( the believers) say: "We hear, and we obey: (We seek) Thy forgiveness, our Lord, and to Thee is the end of all journeys."[2:285]

[Rou]

Why is this? Afaik the dogs spit was used on open wounds during ww1 as it contains a natural antiseptic.

Human spit and cat spit also contains antibiotics and?

In a situation where you need to apply antiseptic to a wound you can use whatever spit you want not only a dogs...

[Rou]

You cannot give such justifications as to why Allah has forbidden the pork. Has Allah made us known anywhere that the reasons you have outlined were taken into consideration by Him in forbidding pork for humans? Obviously not. Then is it not transgressing the limit set by Allah ? You have given justification as if revelation was made by Allah to that effect. But actually, there is none; all you have delineated is your own composition, but aired as Allah's reason. Had I wrongly done such an act of transgression, I would have repented, cried and sought Allah's forgiveness, as Allah says:

2:79 Then woe to those who write the Book with their own hands, and then say:"This is from God," to traffic with it for miserable price!- Woe to them for what their hands do write, and for the gain they make thereby."

I do agree to a point the flesh of swine is prohibted by god not on the grounds that it is unhealthy that is human thought , its a divine law and muslims live by it the question if it were to be put is is that exactly what the verse means...and yes the verse is quote clear so that would be the end of it... question what the verses mean is not prohibted but to make up asumptions as to why such a thing existed and present it as though it is a reason from god is...

[family]

Great Post!!! Good Post sister
Wasallam

[M H Kahn]

"There are many signs in the heavens and the earth which they pass by; yet they pay no attention to them! [12:105] As a result most of them who believe in Allah also commit shirk. [12:106] "

[Yusuf_1979]

Wasalaam Brothers and sisters,

I dont think any one brought up this point,so I will:

When Iesa(A.S) casted demons out of people, what animal did he send them into?

In the bible,when Iesa(A.S) asked the names of the demons, they replied "legion, for which we are many." What animal was speaking to Iesa(A.S)?

The pig is evil. This is why Iesa(A.S) and his original followers never ate the flesh of pigs.(that and they were Jews who kept Kosher,went to Temple,circumsion,ect) Only when Saul(who claimed in some crazy vision to have seen Jesus(pbuh) comes along, does he now claim that it is ok to eat the flesh of pigs.Remember, Iesa(A.S) came to confirm the Taurat, not destroy it And part of keeping the Taurat meant KEEPING KOSHER!!!!!!!

Saul pretty much disregarded all of what the Prophet Iesa(A.S) had revealed and essentially, started his own religion. This is why people of "The Way"(i.e Christians) worship the Prophet Iesa(A.S) as God(swt) insted of The Creator of All Living Things(swt)And also why the bible is contradictiary and full of errors. Had the "People of The Way" been following Iesa(A.S) and his orginal followers insted of Saul,they'd all be devout Jews.

"The Way" have spiraled out of control through out history and this is the what they are left with today. They have become the very thing Iesa(A.S) was so vehemently against,idolizers and idolization. Dont believe so? Take a walk through the Catholic church.

"All Praise Be To Allaah"

[moujahid]

Greetings,

I eat pork, bacon and ham all the time and I've never noticed any ill effects.

Also, if eating meat from an animal that hasn't been slaughtered in a halaal way is so injurious to health, howcome Westerners in general don't notice ill effects resulting from this either?

Peace

The point is ..if you eat pig...you behave like a pig. pig is the only animal that goes around and has sex with th rest of the sow(female pig)...or in other words switches his girlfriend every night...the kind of society we see today in america and europe. and people have gone to pig farms to see exactly what they do..and i personally know a scholar who went there once...its not something wrong..if you wanna confront the pig eaters..u need to examine everything...this answers the doubts of justahumane

Sister I think that u have copy pasted this answer from dr. Zakir Naik's IRF site. I will request any honourable member if he can clarify how come that Dr. Naik knows that pig invites his friends to have sex with his mates???????? Naturally it is supposed to be true coz such a great scholer of islam cant speak lies after starting with Bismillah, but I want any proof of his particular statement. if anyone can provide.

Thanks.

[IbnAbdulHakim]

Mujahid



Please do not ridicule Islam with such a belief from the Middle-Ages. We are in the XXIst century. Shake off your dust or go back to school.

the time and age has nothing to do wiv nething, its people that change not religion! something you should ponder!!!!

[IbnAbdulHakim]

Pr4se



What do you mean by that ?

people are always telling muslims to adapt to the new age!

"accept the cartoons of our prophet as freespeech"

see these people are changing, they are becoming more and more shameless day by day! Look at our women, 30 years ago a woman showing a bit of leg would be considered a prostitute! so that is what i mean by tis people that change and not religion.

[j4763]

The point is ..if you eat pig...you behave like a pig. pig is the only animal that goes around and has sex with th rest of the sow(female pig)...or in other words switches his girlfriend every night...

Thats a joke right?

Think your find there are only a few animals in the animal kingdom that stay with one partner for there life!

[HeiGou]

The point is ..if you eat pig...you behave like a pig. pig is the only animal that goes around and has sex with th rest of the sow(female pig)...or in other words switches his girlfriend every night...the kind of society we see today in america and europe. and people have gone to pig farms to see exactly what they do..and i personally know a scholar who went there once...its not something wrong..if you wanna confront the pig eaters..u need to examine everything...this answers the doubts of justahumane

Virtually all animals do that if given a chance. Geese for instance do not. But the majority of large domestic animals preside over a harem which they will jealously guard. I have not noticed Europeans behaving like this just because they eat chicken or beef.

Moreover if we really behave like the food we eat, isn't it time to stop eating potatos?

[justahumane]

Quote:
Originally Posted by moujahid
The point is ..if you eat pig...you behave like a pig. pig is the only animal that goes around and has sex with th rest of the sow(female pig)...or in other words switches his girlfriend every night...the kind of society we see today in america and europe. and people have gone to pig farms to see exactly what they do..and i personally know a scholar who went there once...its not something wrong..if you wanna confront the pig eaters..u need to examine everything...this answers the doubts of justahumane

Posted by HeiGou
Virtually all animals do that if given a chance. Geese for instance do not. But the majority of large domestic animals preside over a harem which they will jealously guard. I have not noticed Europeans behaving like this just because they eat chicken or beef.

Moreover if we really behave like the food we eat, isn't it time to stop eating potatos?

Well brother Moujahid, No, doubt is still there. In fact I know that whatever Dr. Zakir Naik has said about abnormal sexual behaviour of pigs is wrong/applicable to all other animals. What worries me that he speaks such filthy lies after starting his discource with BISMILLAH, and that too in presence of lots of sisters. This is a strong indication of a fact that Dr. Zakir Naik, who is cosidered among the best scholers of our times, is not even an average muslim, not the less a great islamic scholer. And this is not the only time he has spoken a lie in his discource, he is habitual liar, and what makes the things worse that he speaks lies in the name of ALLAH.............how sad for muslims around the world who take islamic inspirations from him.

Thanks brother HeiGou for providing the information.

[M H Kahn]

Well brother Moujahid, No, doubt is still there. In fact I know that whatever ........has said about abnormal sexual behaviour of pigs is wrong/applicable to all other animals. What worries me that hespeaks such ...........lies after starting his discource
Thanks brother HeiGou for providing the information.

Here is the verse that prohibits pork:
He hath only forbidden you dead meat, and blood, and the flesh of swine, and that on which any other name hath been invoked besides that of God. But if one is forced by necessity, without wilful disobedience, nor transgressing due limits,- then is he guiltless. For God is Oft-forgiving Most Merciful.[2:173]

Has Allah told any reason for the prohibition?
Nor have we got any authentic Ahadith in this regard?
Therefore, however giant a scholar may be to the mass, if he says "Ureka ! I've invented through scientific reasearch the reason why God has forbidden it !", he'll be simply lying or attributing lies to God. A believer must control excesses or he may fall in the category of those about whom Allah says:"Then woe to those who write the Book with their own hands, and then say:"This is from God," to traffic with it for miserable price!- Woe to them for what their hands do write, and for the gain they make thereby."[2:79]

[IbnAbdulHakim]

kno wanna wants to chew on a pig, i wonder why this discussion is still goin on :rollseyes

[IbnAbdulHakim]

Pr4se

Hundreds of millions of people want to chew on a pig.
If you don't like the discussion just leave it.

then chew on it, we said everythin there is to say lol, tahts all im sayin

sry if i caused offence, plz forgive :)

[M H Kahn]

Forbidden to you are: dead meat, blood, the flesh of swine.......

2:173 He hath only forbidden you dead meat, and blood, and the flesh of swine, and that on which any other name hath been invoked besides that of God. But if one is forced by necessity, without wilful disobedience, nor transgressing due limits,- then is he guiltless. For God is Oft-forgiving Most Merciful.

5:3 Forbidden to you (for food) are: dead meat, blood, the flesh of swine, and that on which hath been invoked the name of other than God; that which hath been killed by strangling, or by a violent blow, or by a headlong fall, or by being gored to death; that which hath been (partly) eaten by a wild animal; unless ye are able to slaughter it (in due form); that which is sacrificed on stone (altars); (forbidden) also is the division (of meat) by raffling with arrows: that is impiety. This day have those who reject faith given up all hope of your religion: yet fear them not but fear Me. This day have I perfected your religion for you, completed My favour upon you, and have chosen for you Islam as your religion. But if any is forced by hunger, with no inclination to transgression, God is indeed Oft-forgiving, Most Mercifu.

6:145 Say: "I find not in the message received by me by inspiration any (meat) forbidden to be eaten by one who wishes to eat it, unless it be dead meat, or blood poured forth, or the flesh of swine,- for it is an abomination - or, what is impious, (meat) on which a name has been invoked, other than God's". But (even so), if a person is forced by necessity, without wilful disobedience, nor transgressing due limits,- thy Lord is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.

16:115 He has only forbidden you dead meat, and blood, and the flesh of swine, and any (food) over which the name of other than God has been invoked. But if one is forced by necessity, without wilful disobedience, nor transgressing due limits,- then God is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.

[YouAreLostSouls]

eating any animal should be wrong, why should we kill certain animals? and not others?
our teeth are made to eat vegitation, just as a horses are, lions teeth are made to eat flesh. just as our digestive system is made to digest vegitation only unlike meat eaters digestive system. protien can be found in vegitables too and even though we manage to digest meat , its only after it decays inside you after many days, this can lead to other diseases.
my two cents

[HeiGou]

eating any animal should be wrong, why should we kill certain animals? and not others?

That surely is an argument for eating many animals, not none?

our teeth are made to eat vegitation, just as a horses are, lions teeth are made to eat flesh. just as our digestive system is made to digest vegitation only unlike meat eaters digestive system. protien can be found in vegitables too and even though we manage to digest meat , its only after it decays inside you after many days, this can lead to other diseases.

Our teeth are not made to eat vegetation. As can easily be seen, we lack the proper grinding molars of true herbivores. Nor are our teeth replaceable after childhood which indicates that we were not meant to eat a lot of vegetation. I admit we do not have teeth exactly like lions, but what we do have is a half-way house between the two indicating our omnivorous history.

And of course our digestion system is poorly adapted to deal with hard core vegetation. We do not have three stomachs. We do not deal with fibre very well. And we have no problems whatsoever digesting meat. If meat stays in your stomach for three days there is something wrong with you.

[YouAreLostSouls]

That surely is an argument for eating many animals, not none?



Our teeth are not made to eat vegetation. As can easily be seen, we lack the proper grinding molars of true herbivores. Nor are our teeth replaceable after childhood which indicates that we were not meant to eat a lot of vegetation. I admit we do not have teeth exactly like lions, but what we do have is a half-way house between the two indicating our omnivorous history.

And of course our digestion system is poorly adapted to deal with hard core vegetation. We do not have three stomachs. We do not deal with fibre very well. And we have no problems whatsoever digesting meat. If meat stays in your stomach for three days there is something wrong with you.

well i suggest you should google it and find out for yourself, otherwise islam does not go with science?

[*LJ*]

Our teeth are not made to eat vegetation. As can easily be seen, we lack the proper grinding molars of true herbivores. Nor are our teeth replaceable after childhood which indicates that we were not meant to eat a lot of vegetation. I admit we do not have teeth exactly like lions, but what we do have is a half-way house between the two indicating our omnivorous history.

And of course our digestion system is poorly adapted to deal with hard core vegetation. We do not have three stomachs. We do not deal with fibre very well. And we have no problems whatsoever digesting meat. If meat stays in your stomach for three days there is something wrong with you.

I agree, I've just been studying this in biology, our teeth are half way between carnivores and herbivores, we have sharp canines for tearing but flatter incisors for biting. Also, in our digestive system, we don't have the same enzymes as herbivores have for digesting plant matter and we have a really small appendix which has no function (used for digesting plant matter in herbivores).

I have no problem with vegetarians by the way, its a personal choice obviously. Its just a lot of the signs point to us being omnivorous.

http://www.vrg.org/nutshell/omni.htm (off a veggie website as well, surprising)

I know there are lots of articles saying that human are herbivores, but I think they are only giving one side of the story.

[FatimaAsSideqah]

as-salaam alaykum

Food and drink have direct effect on our health. That is why Islam has prescribed regulations about our food and drink. It lays great emphasis on our physical as well as moral health, because both of these are equally important for a healthy society. The abstention from eating pork is one of the steps taken by Islam to practise hygiene and to attain purity of soul.

Islam, for the cultivation of inner faculties, insists upon the cleanliness of body and the purification of soul through Salaat (prayers) Zikr (remembrance of Allah) and other devotional duties. Islam teaches us how to attain the virtues and how to give up bad habits because both good and bad grow in the man according to his upbringing, education and environment.

A human being has natural desires: food, sleep and sex being the three primary ones. He has also other natural emotions: sorrow, happiness, love, fear, disgust and avarice etc. Islam doesn't recommend the complete abrogation of these impulses but offers a method of controlling them through religious education and discipline.

The prohibition of eating pork in Islam is relevant in this context. There is a saying in English that "a man becomes what he eats." According to physicians and medical experts, pork is a harmful diet. Consumption of swine-flesh creates lowliness in character and destroys moral and spiritual faculties in a man.


Body and Soul

The life of a man is a compound of body and soul. Anything, which is harmful for the body, hurts the soul as well. Consumption of swine-flesh reduces the feeling of shame and as such the standard of modesty. Those nations, which consume pork habitually, have a low standard of morality with the result that virginity, chastity and bashfulness are becoming a thing of the past in Europe today. The number of unwed mothers is on the increase despite of the use of pills and other contraceptives.

According to a report, 60 to 70% of girls in Sweden become mothers before marriage. The formula of "skin to skin is no sin" is taking its toll but there is hardly any feeling of shame or remorse over the end-result. Since the European nations have become addicted to wine and pork, sexual freedom with all its attendant evils has got ingrained in their culture. Consequently, homosexuality has been legalized by the British Parliament.

The Holy Qur'an has prohibited the swine-flesh, hence the Muslims would not dare touch it. The Bible has also forbidden swine-flesh, but Christians disregarded this order and started consuming it. The Europeans now proclaim that pork is a very powerful diet, rich in protein. Some of them further argue that since there is a great scarcity of food-stuff in the world and swines are available in abundant quantity, they should be consumed in the diet to overcome the food shortage. If this argument is true, why don't they use dog's meat as dogs too are available in abundance? The Europeans perhaps hate the mere mention of dog's meat in the same way as the Muslims shun pork.

Another wrong notion about swine-flesh is that its consumption lengthens life-span, although this is a pure myth and absurdity. On the contrary, people, who abstain from pork and liquor, have a longer span of life. The Muslims in Central Asia bear a testimony to this truth.

However, in the consumption of flesh Muslims are required to be selective and to distinguish between Halaal (Lawful) and Haraam (Unlawful). This step leads automatically to the deeper understanding of the need for the cultivation of a pure human nature. As blood is virtually our life-stream and whatever we consume ultimately affects the blood system, it is, therefore, necessary to exercise choice in the selection of our food and drinks as part of the requirements of the Shariah.

There are certain food and drinks specified by Allah, and His Messenger Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) as forbidden. The prohibition of these food and drinks is not by any means an arbitrary action or an unwarranted decree of Allah. It is the first and foremost a divine intervention in the best interest of man and for his own benefit.

The reasons behind the Divine intervention are numerous. They are of a nature intellectual and spiritual, moral and mental, physical and economic. And the sole purpose is to show man how to develop himself according to an upright course of life in order to be a healthy unit in the structure of the family, then of society and eventually of humanity at large.

Reliable medical doctors and social scientists are able to realize how those food and drinks forbidden by Islam are harmful and destructive to the human spirit and morality as well as to the physique and moral fibre of man and to verify the benefits of Islamic legislations on the subjects.

The prohibition is based on the aim of the purification of one's nature, because food, when consumed, doesn't merely enter the stomach and intestines and become excreta. It is absorbed and metabolized into the system and circulated to all parts of the human body, including the brain, and this in no small way affects man's nature.

Take a look at the nature of the pig for example. The pig is naturally lazy and indulgent in sex, it is dirty, greedy and gluttonous. It dislikes sunlight and lacks the spirit and will to "fight." It eats almost anything, be it human excreta or anything foul and unwholesome. Amongst all animal flesh, pork is the favoured cradle of harmful germs. Pork also serves as a carrier of diseases to mankind. It is for this reason that its flesh is not suitable for consumption.

Some people have argued that the "modern pig" reared in farms is given only clean foods, therefore, its flesh should be consumable. The answer is that you may feed the pig on clean, wholesome food, but you can't change its nature. It is still a pig and will always stay so. A pig is not a plant and you cannot change it by bud-grafting.


Medical Reports

Dr. E. Kazim. M.D. in his article "Medical aspects of forbidden foods in Islam" (July 1981 issue of Muslim Journal has described diseases carried or caused by the flesh of the swine.

He writes:

The pig is a scavenger. It is an omnivorous animal. It eats everything. There are many diseases carried from swine to man, particularly parasite infestations. Lately extensive research has been focused on senility-old age is characterized by hardening of inner lining of the blood vessels of the heart, brain etc. a process called atheroselerosis. When a clot forms, it results in coronary thrombosis or a heart attack, cerebral thrombosis or stroke.

Different dietary factors are responsible for atheroselerosis. Gross atheroma may be produced in rabbit by feeding it with cholesterol, but when you add lard (derived from hog fat) to the cholesterol, the incidence of atheroma is increased and thus you would produce coronary thrombosis, and myocardial infraction.

Besides, lard contains 2800 units of vitamin D per 100 grams and no vitamin A at all. Lately vitamin D has been held responsible for atheroma, by causing increased absorption of calcium in the blood vessels. In human beings, serum cholesterol is not dependent on the intake of cholesterol in the diet, but depends upon the proportion of animal fats in the diet, which elevates the beta-lipo protein level in the blood. Animal fats contain saturated fatty acids and these saturated fatty acids have been found to be as one of the causes of atheroma in man. Medium fat bacon contains 25% proteins and 55% fat.

According to medical research, the fat content in pork is more than any other meat (beef, mutton etc.) and it takes longer to digest. Dr. M Jaffer in an article in the Islamic Review (London) of January 1997 issue has listed 16 kinds of harmful germs, which have been discovered in pork in modern researches and the diseases, which could be caused by them. The number of patients suffering from tapeworm disease is the highest in the world among pork eating nations. Other diseases attributed to pigs are caused by tri-chinelia spirates and intestinal worms occupy first place among such nations too.

Dr. Glen Shepherd wrote the following on the dangers of eating pork in Washington Post (31 May 1952).

"One in six people in USA and Canada have germs in their muscles - trichinosis 8 from eating pork infected with trichina worms. Many people who are infected shows no symptoms. Most of those, who do have, recover slowly. Some die; some are reduced to permanent invalids. All were careless pork caters".

He continued "No one is immune from the disease and there is no cure. Neither antibiotics nor drugs or vaccines affect these tiny deadly worms. Preventing infection is the real answer."

After reading the statement of Dr. Shepherd, one can realize that there is no real guarantee of safety when eating pork that one would not be affected by trichina worm. That is why modern doctors advise three prohibitions during illness: no liquor, no pork and no smoking.

Muslims follow the divine law which is much higher than the medical advice. The Glorious Qur'an says, "So eat of the lawful and good food which Allah has provided for you, and thank the bounty of your Lord if it is Him you serve. He has forbidden for you only carrion and blood and swine-flesh and that which has been immolated in the name of any other than Allah; but he who is driven thereto, neither craving nor transgressing, Lo! then Allah is Forgiving, Merciful." (16:114-115)

The above is the order from the Creator of the universe and the Supreme Law-Giver. All Muslims are under the obligation to obey it. This is a plain and straightforward answer to those, who usually ask why Muslims abstain from eating pork. Nevertheless, there is no sin, if a Muslims is forced by famine or starvation to eat pork in order to save his life.

wa-salaam alaykum:sister:

[HeiGou]

Consumption of swine-flesh reduces the feeling of shame and as such the standard of modesty.

And the evidence for this is?

Those nations, which consume pork habitually, have a low standard of morality with the result that virginity, chastity and bashfulness are becoming a thing of the past in Europe today. The number of unwed mothers is on the increase despite of the use of pills and other contraceptives.

And yet pork has been freely available in the West for 2000 years when rates of unwed mothers was considerably lower. Pork is a major part of the diet of East Asia and China, Japan and Korea had extremely low rates of unwed Mothers (and mostly still do).

Since the European nations have become addicted to wine and pork, sexual freedom with all its attendant evils has got ingrained in their culture. Consequently, homosexuality has been legalized by the British Parliament.

If porks causes that why isn't homosexuality legal in China where pork is the major form of meat? Why wasn't homosexuality legal in Europe 2000 years ago?

If this argument is true, why don't they use dog's meat as dogs too are available in abundance? The Europeans perhaps hate the mere mention of dog's meat in the same way as the Muslims shun pork.

I don't see why not.

Another wrong notion about swine-flesh is that its consumption lengthens life-span, although this is a pure myth and absurdity. On the contrary, people, who abstain from pork and liquor, have a longer span of life. The Muslims in Central Asia bear a testimony to this truth.

Actually this is not true at all. Muslims all over the world have lower life expectancies than Europeans. It is true that the populations of the Caucasus mountains are said to have long lives, but that is true if they are Christians, Muslims, or Jews. Studies within European populations show that those that consume moderate amonuts of alcohol live longer than those that do not.

Reliable medical doctors and social scientists are able to realize how those food and drinks forbidden by Islam are harmful and destructive to the human spirit and morality as well as to the physique and moral fibre of man and to verify the benefits of Islamic legislations on the subjects.

Reliable in this case meaning they agree with you? I posted an article here a while back that showed South Asians in Britain are far more likely to get heart disease and diabetes than White people even though many of them are Muslims and do not eat pork.

Take a look at the nature of the pig for example. The pig is naturally lazy and indulgent in sex, it is dirty, greedy and gluttonous. It dislikes sunlight and lacks the spirit and will to "fight."

I see you have never tried to hunt wild pigs - wild pigs kill horses. They do not lack spirit or the will to fight. They are lazy and indulgent in sex but then so are all animals. So are sheep and goats. Pigs do not sweat so of course they do not like the sunlight. Hippopotamus are the same - are they hallal?

It eats almost anything, be it human excreta or anything foul and unwholesome. Amongst all animal flesh, pork is the favoured cradle of harmful germs. Pork also serves as a carrier of diseases to mankind. It is for this reason that its flesh is not suitable for consumption.

All this applies to chickens. Are they suitable for consumption?

Different dietary factors are responsible for atheroselerosis. Gross atheroma may be produced in rabbit by feeding it with cholesterol, but when you add lard (derived from hog fat) to the cholesterol, the incidence of atheroma is increased and thus you would produce coronary thrombosis, and myocardial infraction.

Lard does not have to come from pig fat and lard produced from beef or mutton will clog your arteries just as well as pig fat will.

The number of patients suffering from tapeworm disease is the highest in the world among pork eating nations. Other diseases attributed to pigs are caused by tri-chinelia spirates and intestinal worms occupy first place among such nations too.

Except that Japan, China, South Korea and Western countries have neglible rates of all these despite high pork consumption. The Middle East and other Muslim regions have fairly high rates as well so clearly it is not the pork.

That is why modern doctors advise three prohibitions during illness: no liquor, no pork and no smoking.

Which modern doctors?

The above is the order from the Creator of the universe and the Supreme Law-Giver. All Muslims are under the obligation to obey it. This is a plain and straightforward answer to those, who usually ask why Muslims abstain from eating pork. Nevertheless, there is no sin, if a Muslims is forced by famine or starvation to eat pork in order to save his life.

Finally something I agree with. If you say this I do not know why you need spurious arguments about health. It is enough God says not to surely?

[primitivefuture]

I dont get it.

Jesus, being Jewish, never ate pork. Jews dont eat pork, neither do Muslims. Since Islam, Judaism, and Christianity are Semitic faiths, why is there a drastic change with Christains? Under what historical context did they end up eating pork?

Peace.

[*Hana*]

I dont get it.

Jesus, being Jewish, never ate pork. Jews dont eat pork, neither do Muslims. Since Islam, Judaism, and Christianity are Semitic faiths, why is there a drastic change with Christains? Under what historical context did they end up eating pork?

Peace.

Salam alaikum:

I'm not completely certain of this, but I know Pork was forbidden according to the bible. However, I think because Christians believe the old law was abolished, it also meant the law forbidding the eating of swine was also abolished. However, as a former Christian I don't ever recall there being a reason for allowing pork and have never received evidence that pork was given the "go ahead".

Wasalam,
Hana

[Woodrow]

In all liklihood the early Christians shunned pork. I believe it became acceptable as Christianity invaded the Western European countries and adopted many of the pagan traditions that were prevelent there.


This statement is strictly my own belief and is only based on what I know of the historical development of modern Christianity.

[primitivefuture]

Most likely Christians dont know eatring pork is a sin!

[Goku]

I'd thought about this as well. :rollseyes

[Skillganon]

because, they went in the way of the gentile's. Jesus strictly warned not to go into the way of the gentiles, but the lost sheep of Isreal.

[*Hana*]

Salam Alaikum:

Yeah, you could be right brother Woodrow. Makes sense actually and I'm not so sure myself how, when or why it became acceptable. The only thing I am certain of is that it wasn't permitted at one time. After that....I have no idea. :rollseyes

Wasalam,
Hana

[Skillganon]

Salam Alaikum:

Yeah, you could be right brother Woodrow. Makes sense actually and I'm not so sure myself how, when or why it became acceptable. The only thing I am certain of is that it wasn't permitted at one time. After that....I have no idea. :rollseyes

Wasalam,
Hana

I had lengthy discussion with christian and their justification, but their is no point going into it, as it won't make any difference, to them.

[primitivefuture]

So, is pork most likely haram in Christianity as well, based on original doctrines?

[Joe98]

Pork has a parasite. If pork lives in the wild and it is not cooked properly, the parasite can kill you. This was the original reason for the ban by Jews in ancient times.

Modern pork is farmed using modern farming methods. And pork is butchered according to correct health regulations and it is cooked according to correct health regulations.

Everyone knows this. Muslims choose not to eat it for the simple reason that it is against their religion. There is no other reason. I don't care if you choose not to eat it.

In the West, the ban on pork was lifted due to common sense.

If France or the UK ever became Muslim, pork could not be banned because to do so is to curtail freedom and to go against common sense.

-

[*Hana*]

So, is pork most likely haram in Christianity as well, based on original doctrines?

Salam Alaikum:

Yes, brother, I certainly believe it is. Unless a Christian is here that can explain differently. But, even when I was Christian there was always discussions about it and no one has ever been able to show me where it became permissable.

We'll just have to wait and see if someone else can shed more light. :)

Wasalam,
Hana

[Joe98]

There is a fish the Japanese eat. It has a sack of poison and the fish must be prepared very, very carefully, or the poison will kill you.

The fish does not live in the oceans around the Middle East. As a result the fish is not banned in Islam.

That fish is more dangerous than pork.

-

[primitivefuture]

Everyone knows this. Muslims choose not to eat it for the simple reason that it is against their religion. There is no other reason. I don't care if you choose not to eat it.

In the West, the ban on pork was lifted due to common sense.

Muslims and Jews alike dont eat pork. I still dont see why Christians eat pork when Jesus never did and Jews still don't.

[Skillganon]

So, is pork most likely haram in Christianity as well, based on original doctrines?

well in the NT they intepret it as all food is clean, but like I said I will not go into it, it's pointless.

[Woodrow]

So, is pork most likely haram in Christianity as well, based on original doctrines?

It seems to me that if a person was born into a faith that saw eating pork was haraam, there would have to be some very clear written documentation as to why all of a sudden it is Halal.

Here is a very interesting commentary:

Bible says no to gay unions, but it says a lot of things
Many old laws have lost their force - we don't kill smart-alecky kids


What's the difference between homosexuality and a ham sandwich?

This isn't the setup line for a joke. It's an important question for many Christians who consider their Bible in its entirety to be God's authoritative word.

The recent headlines about gay marriage represent the latest round in an ancient debate involving Christianity's Jewish roots. Those who oppose sanctioning gay unions often cite Scripture – specifically, passages in the Old Testament Book of Leviticus – as evidence that God condemns homosexual behavior. Those on the other side say that's hypocritical cherry-picking – that there are many other prohibitions in the Torah – the first five books of the Bible – that few modern Christians support.


Thou shalt ... or not?
The Bible includes commandments (such as Leviticus 20:13) that get a lot of attention in Christian discussions of homosexuality. But it also includes – in the New Testament as well as the Old – many less familiar commandments that most Christians, for various reasons, do not feel bound to follow. Here's a sampling from the New Revised Standard Version:
All persons, citizens or aliens, who eat what dies of itself or what has been torn by wild animals, shall wash their clothes, and bathe themselves in water, and be unclean until the evening; then they shall be clean. (Leviticus 17:15)

You shall not let your animals breed with a different kind; you shall not sow your field with two kinds of seed; nor shall you put on a garment made of two different materials. (Leviticus 19:19)

You shall not round off the hair on your temples or mar the edges of your beard. (Leviticus 19:27)

As for the male and female slaves whom you may have, it is from the nations around you that you may acquire male and female slaves. You may also acquire them from among the aliens residing with you, and from their families that are with you, who have been born in your land; and they may be your property. (Leviticus 25:44, 45)

If someone has a stubborn and rebellious son who will not obey his father and mother, who does not heed them when they discipline him, then his father and mother shall take hold of him and bring him out to the elders of his town. ... Then all the men of the town shall stone him to death. (Deuteronomy 21:18,19;21)

Do not adorn yourselves outwardly by braiding your hair, and by wearing gold ornaments or fine clothing. (1 Peter 3:3)


Leviticus not only condemns a man "who lies with a male as with a woman" and the eating of pork. It also prohibits seafood without fins. And tattoos.
So what makes one law still in force and another seemingly obsolete? Particularly when Jesus himself said "not one jot or one tittle" of the law would change?

It's a discussion that is playing out in many Christian pulpits. According to a poll by the Pew Research Center for the People and the Press and the Pew Forum on Religion and Public Life, two-thirds of evangelical Protestants who attend church at least once a month say their ministers speak out about homosexuality. About half of Catholics and a third of mainline Protestants say the same thing. Many of those ministers, presumably, cite Scripture in support of the view that homosexual conduct is sinful.

"One wonders why several other Torah rules have been generally ignored while this one is elevated to the status of 'the word of God,' " wrote John Shelby Spong, a retired Episcopal bishop, in a recent online column.

"The Torah prescribes a kosher diet which fundamentalists today ignore. The Torah says that a person cannot make a garment of two different kinds of fabric. It says that those who worship a false god should be executed and so should those children who are disobedient and who talk back to their parents!"

Some theologians counter that Bishop Spong and others who make that case should know better. They say the question of which Old Testament laws to follow is a not a new one, as the bishop implies. "This is a debate that is as old as Christianity itself," said Dr. Bruce Marshall, a professor of historical theology at Southern Methodist University.

In the beginning


Christendom's abandonment of some aspects of Jewish law started even before the word "Christian" was born.

Jesus, in the Gospel of Mark (Chapter 7), seems to revoke the laws concerning food. Debate about circumcision – required of Jewish men – is prominent in many of Paul's letters: "For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision counts for anything." (Galatians 5:6)

Many Christians say that even the "jot and tittle" line contains an explanation for why their faith no longer follows some Jewish law. The end of the verse says there would be no change until all is "accomplished" or, depending on the translation, "fulfilled."

And Jesus himself represents the fulfillment of some laws, these Christians say. For instance, in this view, his death on the cross fulfilled the many Jewish laws concerning atonement and sacrifice.

"It's not that a command has become obsolete,'" Dr. Marshall said. "It has become fully enacted."

Old and New


Some Christians look to see which laws of the Torah are specifically mentioned in the New Testament. The one prohibiting the mixing of threads in the same fabric, for instance, is not. But Paul specifically discusses homosexuality.
"The New Testament is not concerned with ceremonial uncleanliness but it is concerned with the sanctity of marriage," said the Rev. Kendall Harmon, a conservative Episcopal theologian from South Carolina.

Debate in the early church was largely about the Torah obligations of Gentiles, said Dr. Markus Bockmuehl, a professor at Cambridge University and the author of Jewish Law in Gentile Churches: Halakhah and the Beginning of Christian Public Ethics.


As Gentile converts began to swell the ranks of the church, early Christian leaders turned to halakhah – Jewish law – as a guide for deciding which Jewish laws the new faith would follow, he said. Gentiles were never prohibited from eating the Bible-era equivalents of ham sandwiches, for instance. And that's one reason the prohibition against pork didn't survive, he said.
Jewish law identified three kinds of Torah commandments that applied to non-Jews as well: those against idolatry, those that defined appropriate sexual behavior and those that generally established the sanctity of life. And the law against homosexuality was included in the definition of appropriate sexual behavior.

Those three broad categories of law that applied to Gentiles cover most of the Torah laws that conservative Christians still say are actively in force, Dr. Bockmuehl said.

Times change


Modern Catholics rely on the long history of authoritative church teachings to divide laws into those that should be heeded and those that needn't be, said the Rev. Brian Daley, a theology professor at the University of Notre Dame.
"There's a desire to stay in touch with the sources, but there is a constant interpretive process going on," he said.

Lending money with interest is prohibited in the Torah and was considered sinful by many Christians until the 17th century, he said. That has clearly changed.

"Most people would not say it was an abandoning of a major moral activity but a viewing of it in a new context," Father Daley said.

That, of course, is exactly the argument made by those who support gay bishops and gay marriage, he acknowledged: They say times have changed, and the Bible should be read in a new context. That's where church authority comes in, said Father Daley. "You need a community to draw the line, unless it's going to be every individual for himself."

Many Christians draw distinctions between those laws that are considered ceremonial, those that are civil and those that are moral.

Laws about kinds of food or fabric fall into the first category. Laws about how to run a court system fall into the second. Deciding which laws are clearly moral is much harder to do and is part of the current debate.

'A litmus test'


So to some people of faith, homosexuality is immoral. And others, who equally revere the Bible, disagree.

The Rev. Susan Russell is an Episcopal priest and the president of Integrity, an organization of lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgendered Episcopalians. She said she's found a simple way to parse the Torah's teachings: She turns to what Jesus said in Matthew 22: "You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart," and "You shall love your neighbor as yourself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets."

"If I need a litmus test for whether ... our tradition needs to change, it is whether what we're considering meets those two criteria," she said. "I contend that lifelong committed relationships between people of the same sex meet the criteria."

The Rev. David Roseberry, rector at Christ Church Episcopal in Plano, reads the same Bible and comes to different conclusions.

"It's the best book on the most important subjects," he said. "You cannot get the Bible to endorse homosexuality. It just isn't there."

(Jeffrey Weiss, The Dallas Morning News)

[*Hana*]

Pork has a parasite. If pork lives in the wild and it is not cooked properly, the parasite can kill you. This was the original reason for the ban by Jews in ancient times.

Modern pork is farmed using modern farming methods. And pork is butchered according to correct health regulations and it is cooked according to correct health regulations.

Everyone knows this. Muslims choose not to eat it for the simple reason that it is against their religion. There is no other reason. I don't care if you choose not to eat it.

In the West, the ban on pork was lifted due to common sense.

If France or the UK ever became Muslim, pork could not be banned because to do so is to curtail freedom and to go against common sense.

-

Peace Joe:

Pork is still full of parasites regardless of how you farm it. True enough, cooking it thoroughly will kill the parasites, but it's not the only reason pork is not permitted. Pigs are filthy animals that will eat anything and everything including their own feces. Personally....eating something that eats that disgusts me. You want to eat it....okie dokie....but for me....:heated:

Peace,
Hana

[Joe98]

I still dont see why Christians eat pork when Jesus never did and Jews still don't.

becasue to eat pork is a question of common sense. To not eat it is a question of religion.

Christains are not maniacal about religion. There is only one part of their religion they care about:

Christ is the Son God.
Christ died on the cross for you.
Christ rose from the dead.

Eating of pork has no effect on the centrepiece of Christianity

-

[primitivefuture]

How can Christians easilly turn down the Old Testament? Are they trying to follow doctrines that they feel comfortable with?

[primitivefuture]

becasue to eat pork is a question of common sense. To not eat it is a question of religion.

Christains are not maniacal about religion.

Ok, common sense. BUT:

Christ is the Son God.
Christ died on the cross for you.
Christ rose from the dead.

Is NOT based on common sense.

I am seeing severe contradiction in your post.

[*Hana*]

well in the NT they intepret it as all food is clean, but like I said I will not go into it, it's pointless.

Yes, and I'm quite sure this stems from the belief that the old laws have been abolished, yes? or it's more specific than that. I think I'll have to take the time to research it because now I'm really curious. lol

[Joe98]

Is NOT based on common sense.

Judaism, Islam and Christianity - none are based on common sense. All are based upon a supernatural being. All are based on faith.

You cannot shake the faith of Christains by looking for contradictions in the Bible.

-

[primitivefuture]

Judaism, Islam and Christianity - none are based on common sense. All are based upon a supernatural being. All are based on faith.

I think you misunderstood. My point was that - What's use is common sense when the faith doesnt have any to begin with?

Since pork was initially PROHIBITED in Christianity, why did this suddenly change? Is this properly justified?

[Skillganon]

Judaism, Islam and Christianity - none are based on common sense. All are based upon a supernatural being. All are based on faith.
You cannot shake the faith of Christains by looking for contradictions in the Bible.

Edit.

Well you can argue that being an atheist is based on faith, and not common sense. but what does that have to do with it.

Regarding Pork:
God has prohibited eating pork, period. end of argument.

[primitivefuture]

I dont think atheism is based on common sense as well. But, lets stay on topic :)

[Joe98]

Since pork was initially PROHIBITED in Christianity, why did this suddenly change? Is this properly justified?

It does not need to be justified.

Its about food, not religion.

-

[primitivefuture]

It does not need to be justified.

Its about food, not religion.

Food is related to religion. That is the case for the majority of religions, including Islam, Judaism, Hinduism, Sikhism, Buddism and more.

So, of course it needs to be justified, especially if they worship someone who was a Jew.

[akulion]

I think its cos its cheaper and they may be trying to save some money

Eventhough according to old scripture its forbidden

[primitivefuture]

I think its cos its cheaper and they may be trying to save some money

Eventhough according to old scripture its forbidden

HAHAHAHAHA!!! That would most likely be the case for Jews.

[*Hana*]

Salam alaikum:

Ok, I've just read a whole pile of stuff about this. And, No, pork is still not permitted, and this is in both the Old and New Testaments.

A portion here: the early New Testament church continued the Old Testament practice of observing the dietary laws of Leviticus 11 and Deuteronomy 14. The words of Jesus Christ and Peter as well as the writings of Paul all support this conclusion.

Also, for our non-religious friend, here is some information for you regarding Pork:

It is well known that the flesh of animals dubbed "unclean" for human consumption pose unique risks to humans who eat them. The Webster's Dictionary definition of "trichinosis" states:

"a trichinas disease marked by fever, diarrhea, muscular pains, etc. and usually acquired by eating undercooked, infested pork." (1)

The Encyclopedia Americana adds this warning:

"Hogs may be infested by parasitic roundworms called ...(trichina), which are lodged in muscle tissue. The trichina can be transferred to humans if raw or inadequately cooked pork is ingested, and serious, sometimes fatal, illness may result... There is more likelihood of pork being contaminated by trichina in the United States than in Europe. In Europe, hog carcasses are inspected microscopically for evidence...of trichina." (2) (Emphasis added.)
The Americana also states the following about trichinosis:

"The disease is worldwide, and about 15% of the United States population is said to be infested, although the majority of cases remain asymptomatic. The degree of severity of the infection is believed to depend on the number of trichinae contained in the ingested pork...
The mortality of symptomatic cases runs from 5 to 40% ...Once the trichinae are encysted in muscle tissue they cannot be dislodged...Death is usually from cardiac or respiratory failure in the acute phase." (3) (Emphasis added.)

It's a much longer article, but this is enough. lool

Wasalam and peace,
Hana

[primitivefuture]

I was kidding about the Jews.

Anyways,

Doesnt it seem strange that Christians are eating haram ESPECIALLY when its not allowed in Christianity to begin with? Are they doomed?

[akulion]

Well pork is just one thing

then there is rampantly "accepted" fornication

not to mention alcohol and other things too which go against commandments

[primitivefuture]

Premarital sex is prominent among Christians indeed.

[Skillganon]

Well pork is just one thing

then there is rampantly "accepted" fornication

not to mention alcohol and other things too which go against commandments

Maybe they are just disobeying them, some of our brother's and sisters that are rather detached from ISLAM do commit those also. This type of behaviour only lead to moral decay, not to mention futher away from ISLAM (straying). So make Duah, and that's why I stress the importance of education on ISLAM, and not the usual type don't do this and do that but education in the Quran and the sunnah. Let the Quran speak for them, and it will have a better impact than anyones simple word.

[Joe98]

Doesnt it seem strange that Christians are eating haram ESPECIALLY when its not allowed in Christianity to begin with? Are they doomed?

What could be strange about it?????

Why would they be doomed? Its not central to their religion.

There is a phrase in Christianity: "you only have to believe in the death and resurrection of Christ to be saved".

Pork is not central to their religion.

[searchingsoul]

:) :)

Salam alaikum:

Ok, I've just read a whole pile of stuff about this. And, No, pork is still not permitted, and this is in both the Old and New Testaments.

A portion here: the early New Testament church continued the Old Testament practice of observing the dietary laws of Leviticus 11 and Deuteronomy 14. The words of Jesus Christ and Peter as well as the writings of Paul all support this conclusion.

As you had mentioned earlier, Christians believe that the laws of the Old Testament are no longer applicable due to the crucifixion of Jesus and the new laws set forth. The quote above appears to be the a view of the early Christian church. This is no longer a generally accepted belief. I do not know of any words from Jesus Christ which would condemn eating pork. Do you?
Also, for our non-religious friend, here is some information for you regarding Pork:

It is well known that the flesh of animals dubbed "unclean" for human consumption pose unique risks to humans who eat them. The Webster's Dictionary definition of "trichinosis" states:

"a trichinas disease marked by fever, diarrhea, muscular pains, etc. and usually acquired by eating undercooked, infested pork." (1)

The Encyclopedia Americana adds this warning:

"Hogs may be infested by parasitic roundworms called ...(trichina), which are lodged in muscle tissue. The trichina can be transferred to humans if raw or inadequately cooked pork is ingested, and serious, sometimes fatal, illness may result... There is more likelihood of pork being contaminated by trichina in the United States than in Europe. In Europe, hog carcasses are inspected microscopically for evidence...of trichina." (2) (Emphasis added.)
The Americana also states the following about trichinosis:

"The disease is worldwide, and about 15% of the United States population is said to be infested, although the majority of cases remain asymptomatic. The degree of severity of the infection is believed to depend on the number of trichinae contained in the ingested pork...
The mortality of symptomatic cases runs from 5 to 40% ...Once the trichinae are encysted in muscle tissue they cannot be dislodged...Death is usually from cardiac or respiratory failure in the acute phase." (3) (Emphasis added.)

It's a much longer article, but this is enough. lool

Raw beef, poultry and seafood also have parasites and bacteria.

Wasalam and peace,
Hana

:) :) :)

[primitivefuture]

What could be strange about it?????

Why would they be doomed? Its not central to their religion.

There is a phrase in Christianity: "you only have to believe in the death and resurrection of Christ to be saved".

Pork is not central to their religion.

If I have interpreted my information correctly, eating pork would be a sin.

[*Hana*]

What could be strange about it?????

Why would they be doomed? Its not central to their religion.

There is a phrase in Christianity: "you only have to believe in the death and resurrection of Christ to be saved".

Pork is not central to their religion.

Joe:

Did any bible you've ever seen come with a list where you just check off what you choose to follow? Just because someone believes Jesus, pbuh, died and was resurrected, doesn't mean they will be saved at all. The commandments of God were never abolished, the laws of God were never abolished.....you don't pick and choose them as they suit you. (Well, not you, as you don't believe anyway.) It is absolutely clear that one of the laws of God is that you don't eat pork. Simple. Christians choose not to abide by that....so be it. They can answer for it....it's not my call. But, don't say it's not part of their faith when it clearly is.

Hana

[syilla]

i guess it becoz it taste good...(they say it taste like chicken is it true?--then y not just eat chicken)

and maybe they cannot resist eating it...

[primitivefuture]

Its because ..... eh, I'd rather not say :)

[Joe98]

Did any bible you've ever seen come with a list where you just check off what you choose to follow?

Of course not. I am trying to help you understand Christians. This is how they think.

This is why they don’t get violent if Muslims abuse the Bible. This is why Christians are amazed that Muslims get violent if a Koran is damaged.

Just because someone believes Jesus, pbuh, died and was resurrected, doesn't mean they will be saved at all.

Well, I am trying to help you understand Christians. And this is what they believe. Just because you don’t believe it does not mean they don’t believe it.

They can answer for it.......

They believe they will not be punished for it because it is not the core of their faith.

-

[searchingsoul]

If I have interpreted my information correctly, eating pork would be a sin.

You have misinterpreted the information. Eating pork is not a sin for the vast majority of Christians.

You can argue that eating pork SHOULD be considered a sin in Christianity. The fact remains that it is not a sin in Christianity. Just remember that Christians sometimes try to argue that hijab and other rules of Islam are not supported by the Islamic texts and should not be practised today.

It's best to let each religion decipher their own religious texts and make their own rules.

[primitivefuture]

You have misinterpreted the information. Eating pork is not a sin for the vast majority of Christians.

You can argue that eating pork SHOULD be considered a sin in Christianity. The fact remains that it is not a sin in Christianity. Just remember that Christians sometimes try to argue that hijab and other rules of Islam are not supported by the Islamic texts and should not be practised today.

Since Christianity is comprised of both the Old Testament and the New Testament, it only makes sense that Christians follow doctrines of the Old testament in addition to the Ten Commandments. From what I know know, pork is prohibited in the OT, which is why Jews STILL dont eat pork. I dont understand why Christians arent following Christianity accordingly. After all, Jesus never ate pork.

[Joe98]

I dont understand why Christians arent following Christianity accordingly.

Because it is a unimportant issue and they will not be punished

After all, Jesus never ate pork.

Nor did he eat kangaroo.

-

[searchingsoul]

Since Christianity is comprised of both the Old Testament and the New Testament, it only makes sense that Christians follow doctrines of the Old testament in addition to the Ten Commandments. From what I know know, pork is prohibited in the OT, which is why Jews STILL dont eat pork. I dont understand why Christians arent following Christianity accordingly. After all, Jesus never ate pork.

The Jews do not eat pork because the New Testament is not part of their religion. They do not consider Jesus to be their savior.

You are correct, Christians recognize both the old and new testaments. Let me say this one more time.....Christians believe that the laws in the old testament no longer apply since Christ was crucified.

It is not up to a Muslim to judge Christianity and decide what Christians should believe. LOL ;D Think about it. ;D

[*Hana*]

Peace Searching:

As you had mentioned earlier, Christians believe that the laws of the Old Testament are no longer applicable due to the crucifixion of Jesus and the new laws set forth. The quote above appears to be the a view of the early Christian church. This is no longer a generally accepted belief. I do not know of any words from Jesus Christ which would condemn eating pork. Do you?

Ok, this is long, but it gives you a detailed response:

Jesus and the "Law of Moses"

At Mt. Sinai, God gave Moses not only the Ten Commandments but also many divine instructions about personal behavior, methods of worship and lifestyle choices. These divine instructions came to be known as the "law of Moses" even though they were actually "the law of God given to Moses." When Jesus Christ lived his physical life, many often forget he was reared as a devout Jew. After Jesus' birth, Joseph and Mary observed the seven-day purification period for women, and also had Jesus circumcised on the eighth day (Luke 2:21-23), according to the instructions of the law of Moses n Leviticus 12:1-3. These aspects of the Law of Moses are found literally adjacent to the chapter on dietary laws (Leviticus 11). Since Joseph and Mary scrupulously observed Leviticus 12 in rearing Jesus, it follows that they scrupulously observed Leviticus 11 in their choice of meats which were fed to Jesus and the rest of their children. The observant nature of Jesus' family is further confirmed in Luke 2:39:

"And when they [Joseph and Mary] had performed all things according to the law of the Lord, they returned to Galilee."
Notice that Luke does not call these Old Testament requirements the "law of Moses," but refers to them as the "law of the Lord."-a subtle, but important indicator of the early Christian church's views about Old Testament laws. Luke 2:41 adds that Joseph and Mary kept the Feast of Passover "every year" at Jerusalem. It is not clear whether they brought their children with them every year, but verse 42 states that they brought Jesus with them to Jerusalem for the Passover Feast when Jesus was twelve years old.

During his adult years, the scriptures portray Jesus as being loyal to the "observant" traditions of his parents. We know that Jesus was careful to observe the Passover and Days of Unleavened Bread (Matthew 26:17-19), and that he participated in the "Last Great Day" of the Feast of Tabernacles (John 7:37). In Matthew 5:17-18, Jesus openly declared his allegiance to the Old Testament Laws of God (i.e. "law of Moses"). He emphatically stated:

"think not that I am come to destroy the law or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill... Till heaven and earth pass, one jot [a dot of the I] or one tittle [a cross of the T] shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled."

Whew! Jesus' affirmation that his coming will abolish "nothing" from the Old Testament laws of God ought to give all modern Christians pause about assuming Jesus made any major changes in the observance of the dietary laws. Two truisms of biblical study are as follows: (A) The words of God (in the Old Testament) and Jesus Christ (in the New Testament) carry more scriptural authority than the words of their human followers, and (B) one must interpret vague scriptures in light of the meaning of clear scriptures, not vice versa. Applying both these truisms, any vague passages in New Testament books must be interpreted in a manner consistent with the clear declaration of Jesus Christ in Matthew 5:17. Given the vehemence of Jesus' support for God's Old Testament laws in Matthew 5:17-18, we must insist on finding very explicit evidence in the New Testament that something was "done away" before we abandon the practice. This is particularly true in the case of Paul's writings as Peter warned that Paul's writings were easy to misunderstand (II Peter 3:16). It is noteworthy that while God canonized many of Paul's writings, Peter's warning about their difficult doctrinal application was also canonized. If Paul's words were easily misunderstood in his own time and in his own culture, how much easier might it be for us to misunderstand Paul's writings when we not only read Paul's words in a different language but are also two millennia removed from his historical context?

Hebrews 13:8 tells us that Jesus Christ is:

"...the same yesterday, today and forever. Be not carried about with divers and strange doctrines."
Here the writer of Hebrews warns against following false doctrines by reminding the reader that Jesus Christ's doctrines not only "did not change" but also "will never change." Does this scripture sound like Jesus Christ was one to radically alter the Old Testament laws of God? Quite the contrary, the scriptural evidence is that Jesus supported and practiced them faithfully during his entire life. (Taken from www.biblestudy.org)

So, it is clear that Jesus, pbuh, did not eat pork and did not change the law that made it permissable to eat pork.

Raw beef, poultry and seafood also have parasites and bacteria.

They CAN contain parasites, yes. Any foods, including fruits and vegetables CAN contain them. But, that's not the point of this thread. The Bible doesn't say you cannot consume beef, fish, chicken, fruits or vegetables. Pigs are unclean animals which is why they are not permitted. They eat their own feces and any other garbage they can find regardless of what it is. This then becomes part of its meat which you in turn ingest.

If you want to eat it, it's up to you. The bible says you can't and quite frankly, for me personally, the thought of ever eating pork again disgusts me. (Yes, I did eat it and liked it at one time.) However, even before reverting I rarely ate it and never bought it because of the thought of what was in it. Now, after learning more, I just can't stomach it.

So, chow down if you like...but it doesn't change the fact it's not permitted. :)

Peace,
Hana

[*Hana*]

Nor did he eat kangaroo.-

Hmmmm, can you show me where the bible or any doctrine specifically says that? What might be likely or unlikely is hardly the point. You don't know if he did or didn't. But, we do know, he never ate pork.

Hana

[Joe98]

Ok, this is long, but it gives you a detailed response:

Christains don't care about this issue.

-

[Joe98]

Hmmmm, can you show me where the bible or any doctrine specifically says he didn't eat kangaroo?

The doctrine of common sense.

Kangaroos do not inhabit the Middle East. And therefore there are no ruling on it in any religion.

This shows the absurdity of all religion.

-

[*Hana*]

Of course not. I am trying to help you understand Christians. This is how they think.-

lol, thank you for your concern, but I think as a former Christian, I don't need an atheist telling me how they think. :giggling:

I am very aware of Christian belief and doctrine. You can say it's because they don't care, but maybe they should. Muslims care very much about the word of God and have an enormous amount of respect for what's in their holy book. Is it then fair to say Christians don't respect the word of God as much as Muslims? I don't think so. But, my personal opinion and experience is that Christians don't understand their own Bible the way Muslims understand the Qur'an.

I don't say that to put Christians down, not at all. I say that will all due respect. There is a lot of confusion and conflicting information in there and many versions to choose from. But, I'll bet every version will still tell them they can't eat pork. :)

Anyway, I do thank you for your concern though. lol :)

Hana

[*Hana*]

Christains don't care about this issue.

-

One Christian did, which is why I posted it. Perhaps it would help if you read all the thread. :)

Hana

[*Hana*]

The doctrine of common sense.

Kangaroos do not inhabit the Middle East. And therefore there are no ruling on it in any religion.

This shows the absurdity of all religion.

-

Who wrote that doctrine?

Is it permissable to eat or not? Yes, there would be a ruling on it...search and I'm sure you'll find it. :)

Hana

[Looking4Peace]

In all liklihood the early Christians shunned pork. I believe it became acceptable as Christianity invaded the Western European countries and adopted many of the pagan traditions that were prevelent there.


This statement is strictly my own belief and is only based on what I know of the historical development of modern Christianity.

I think that is correct, especially with Roman catholics which i was as a youngster, they threw out alot of things that were in old testament.

[searchingsoul]

Since Christianity is comprised of both the Old Testament and the New Testament, it only makes sense that Christians follow doctrines of the Old testament in addition to the Ten Commandments. From what I know know, pork is prohibited in the OT, which is why Jews STILL dont eat pork. I dont understand why Christians arent following Christianity accordingly. After all, Jesus never ate pork.

Jesus never flew on an airplane, drove a car, enjoyed electricity,etc...But Christians are allowed to do these things too!:)

The reason that Christians do not follow the rules in the OT have been explained at least twice on this thread. :statisfie

[*Hana*]

Jesus never flew on an airplane, drove a car, enjoyed electricity,etc...But Christians are allowed to do these things too!:)

The reason that Christians do not follow the rules in the OT have been explained at least twice on this thread. :statisfie

Neither was the condemning of airplanes, cars or electricity mentioned in the bible. :) And you can say you don't have to follow the OT all you want....but I have shown you where those laws were not abolished, (even according to Paul :statisfie ). You can follow the bible...or not. Up to you...as mentioned twice in this thread as well. :giggling:

Hana

ps: that was taken from a Christian source so you might want to go there and read the entire 2 page article for yourself. It's quite interesting.

[searchingsoul]

Neither was the condemning of airplanes, cars or electricity mentioned in the bible. :) And you can say you don't have to follow the OT all you want....but I have shown you where those laws were not abolished, (even according to Paul :statisfie ). You can follow the bible...or not. Up to you...as mentioned twice in this thread as well. :giggling:

Hana

ps: that was taken from a Christian source so you might want to go there and read the entire 2 page article for yourself. It's quite interesting.

Hana, you provided bible scripture which pertained to Jesus prior to the crucifixion. After the crucifixion the rules of the old testament were lifted.

I also think I'll take take the advice of Christian religious scholars over one Muslim. No offense, but I'm sure you understand.

[Abdullah4ever]

:sl:

U no wats funny in the bible it forbids christians to eat pork and in the Torah it forbids jews to eat pork and in confucious book too whilst they still eat it.

They are just following their desires may allah guide them

:w:

[*Hana*]

Hana, you provided bible scripture which pertained to Jesus prior to the crucifixion. After the crucifixion the rules of the old testament were lifted.

I also think I'll take take the advice of Christian religious scholars over one Muslim. No offense, but I'm sure you understand.

loool what I gave you was from biblical scholars. Even by Christian standards not ALL the rules were lifted at all. As a former Christian and now a Muslim that can see what Pauline doctrine did to Christianity....even HE didn't change that law. Most everything else perhaps....but not the prohibition of unclean food. I gave you the link, read it for yourself.

Ummm, and no, I'm not all offended, I was a christian for many years and I am truly thankful I was guided to Islam. :) Alhamdulillah. :)

Peace,
Hana

[Woodrow]

The doctrine of common sense.

Kangaroos do not inhabit the Middle East. And therefore there are no ruling on it in any religion.

This shows the absurdity of all religion.

-

Actualy there is a ruling on it in the Qur'an. I believe there is also a similar ruling in the Tauret.

Surah 6:145-146

To be on the safe side many Muslims and Jews would say that the only animals permitted for food are those with cloven hooves and chew a cud, when slaughtered for food in the prescribed manner. I believe most Jews and Muslims would consider a kangaroo as being forbidden based on the description of what may be eaten.

[searchingsoul]

loool what I gave you was from biblical scholars. Even by Christian standards not ALL the rules were lifted at all. As a former Christian and now a Muslim that can see what Pauline doctrine did to Christianity....even HE didn't change that law. Most everything else perhaps....but not the prohibition of unclean food. I gave you the link, read it for yourself.

Ummm, and no, I'm not all offended, I was a christian for many years and I am truly thankful I was guided to Islam. :) Alhamdulillah. :)

Peace,
Hana

Hana you are interpretting Christian doctrine and asking others to accept it as the infallible truth. While I respect your right to this, the fact remains that it is your interpretation.

[*Hana*]

So the scholar you that presents this information is actually a Muslim convert. This makes his opinions biases.

I would never take Islamic opinion from an apostate.

Who said he was a Muslim convert? I said I was a revert. Ohhhh, I can see where you thought that. Noooo, I meant I was revert and I could see it then and see it more clearly now. Sorry for the confusion.

Hana

[searchingsoul]

Who said he was a Muslim convert? I said I was a revert.

I know. I misread your post and updated my comment. I'm sorry about the mistake. I think I need to go to bed.

[*Hana*]

Actualy there is a ruling on it in the Qur'an. I believe there is also a similar ruling in the Tauret.

Surah 6:145-146

To be on the safe side many Muslims and Jews would say that the only animals permitted for food are those with cloven hooves and chew a cud, when slaughtered for food in the prescribed manner. I believe most Jews and Muslims would consider a kangaroo as being forbidden based on the description of what may be eaten.

Salam Alaikum brother Woodrow:

Actually, the Kangaroo is a herbivore and there is no reason for it to be haram, assuming of course it's slaughtered properly. Personally, I don't think I could eat Skippy :rollseyes but, Islamically, I'm quite sure it would be permitted.

Wasalam
Hana

[*Hana*]

Hana you are interpretting Christian doctrine and asking others to accept it as the infallible truth. While I respect your right to this, the fact remains that it is your interpretation.

Actually, no, it is not my interpretation at all. I don't have that kind of memory and I'm not that bright. :p

I read and read and read, searchingsoul, and I don't go to one source nor do I go to Christian bashing sites. I try to always use biblical and christian scholars as my source for understanding, which is what I've done here.

If what I said is in error, please give me the verses where it is said differently and I will be more than happy to read them.

With respect,
Hana

[Woodrow]

Actually Christianity is somewhat divided over the eating of pork.

"Why are Adventists so passionate about good health? The Bible says, “Don't you know that you yourselves are God's temple and that God's Spirit lives in you?…For God's temple is sacred, and you are that temple.” So it makes sense that Christians abstain from alcoholic beverages, tobacco, and harmful drugs and narcotics. A healthful diet, adequate exercise and rest are also important in taking care of your body-temple. Seventh-day Adventists choose not to eat meat that the Bible forbids, such as pork and shellfish. And long before research revealed the great benefits of a vegetarian diet, Adventists promoted vegetarianism as part of a healthy lifestyle. (I Corinthians 3:16, 17; 2 Corinthians 6:16; Proverbs 20:1; 23:29-32; Leviticus 11)

[Joe98]

To Hana-Aku


This thread started with the question: Why do Christians eat pork?


Why do you think they eat pork?

[*Hana*]

Actually Christianity is somewhat divided over the eating of pork.

Salam Alaikum:

Yes, brother Woodrow, what you posted is exactly right, but Christians believe that law was abolished along with the others. However if you read the following you can see how it was not:

God regarded humans to be "defiled" or "unclean" if they ate the flesh of "unclean" animals. He expected the Israelites to refrain from unclean meats to maintain a state of "holiness" in his sight. As noted earlier, the early New Testament church obeyed God's instructions in Leviticus 11. The Apostle Peter recoiled at the thought of eating unclean meats (Acts 10:14), and the Apostle Paul wrote that animal flesh had to be sanctified in "the word of God" (Old Testament scriptures) before it could be eaten. Consider also Paul's instructions in II Corinthians 6:16-18. After commenting on the importance of being separate from the sinfulness of the world in verses 14-16, Paul writes (in the KJV):

"...for you are the Temple of the living God; as God hath said, 'I will dwell in them and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people, Wherefore come out from among them, and be you separate,' saith the Lord, 'and touch not the unclean thing: and I will receive you, and will be a father to you and you shall be my sons and daughters.'" (Emphasis added.)
Interesting! While writing to a congregation in a Gentile community, Paul quotes God's (Old Testament) instructions to "touch not the unclean thing" as part of a commentary on maintaining Christian holiness. In citing the scriptures of the Hebrew Bible, Paul was likely referring to forbidden meats as "unclean things," especially since his fellow Apostle, Peter, specifically used the word "unclean" to describe forbidden meats (Acts 10:14). Even as the Israelites were forbidden to eat unclean meats as part of their "holiness" obligation toward God, Paul told early Christians to also avoid "unclean things" as part of their "holiness" obligation toward God. In other words, Paul was telling Corinthian Christians they would be defiling their bodies ("the temple of the living God") if they "touched unclean things."

The above passage indicates that even Paul, the "apostle to the Gentiles," affirmed that the animal meat restrictions of the Old Testament were binding on New Testament Christians. (www.biblestudy.org)

Wasalam,
Hana

[searchingsoul]

Colossians 2:16 & 17 says: Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ.

Mark 7:15-23 says: There is nothing from without a man, that entering into him can defile him: but the things which come out of him, those are they that defile the man.

Because of the above verses, many Christians believe that when Jesus came and died for us, he made it alright to eat pork.

[primitivefuture]

Christians believe that when Jesus came and died for us

Woah.....if Jesus is God, then how did he end up dying? Are you suggesting that God can be mortal?

[Tania]

Died for us in this material world-the sinners world- and revive in heaven:)

[primitivefuture]

God is immortal. Since Jesus supposedly died, doesnt that imply he's mortal?

Also, if Jesus was God, why couldnt he protect himself from the Romans? Why did he end up crucified?

[searchingsoul]

Woah.....if Jesus is God, then how did he end up dying? Are you suggesting that God can be mortal?

I'm glad that you have such an interest in Christianity. Interfaith dialogue is important to world peace.:)

The questions you ask do not pertain to this thread but are discussed in great detail in other threads.

Good luck in your search.

[Joe98]

God is immortal. Since Jesus supposedly died, doesnt that imply he's mortal?

Also, if Jesus was God, why couldnt he protect himself from the Romans? Why did he end up crucified?

Do you know the basis of Christianity?

Read my posts in this thread and find out.

[primitivefuture]

Christianity is an entire religion. Its much more than Christ.

[*Hana*]

Colossians 2:16 & 17 says: Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ.

Mark 7:15-23 says: There is nothing from without a man, that entering into him can defile him: but the things which come out of him, those are they that defile the man.

Because of the above verses, many Christians believe that when Jesus came and died for us, he made it alright to eat pork.

Peace searching:

Colossians 2:16-17 is not referring to the laws of prohibited food. Paul was writing to converts who were concerned over eating meat that had been offered to idols for blessings as part of the food preparation. The Jews would never have done this as part of the preparation so we know he wasn't referring to them. Paul told them the idols were nothing and could do nothing to the meat so the meat was permitted.

Mark 7:15-23, as in Matthew 15:11, Jesus was not referring to prohibited meat either. If you look at the verse in full context starting with verse 1 of both Mark and Matthew, you will see the Pharasees are asking: "Why do your disciples break away from the tradition of the elders? They eat without washing their hands." The response you quoted is not to prohibited meat at all....it's a response to washing unclean hands. Jesus, pbuh, then responds to their hypocracy saying: "Why do you break away from the commandments of God for the sake of your tradition...you have made God's word ineffective by means of your tradition." He was telling them that not observing ritualistic Jewish traditions was not breaking God's Law. If you continue to read on you realize Jesus, pbuh, is saying that if a piece of dirt or dust is accidently eaten because of unclean hands it's not an issue. What matters are the words that come out of your mouth as it is an indication of what is in your heart.

Peace,
Hana

[Joe98]

Doesnt it seem strange that Christians are eating haram ESPECIALLY when its not allowed in Christianity to begin with? Are they doomed?

What could be strange about it?????

Why would they be doomed?


Please answer my questions

[*Hana*]

To Hana-Aku


This thread started with the question: Why do Christians eat pork?


Why do you think they eat pork?

I already said why I believe they eat pork, and searchingsoul has confirmed that. They believe they are permitted in the NT. Are you sure you're reading this thread because that's been repeated several times. :?

Anyway, peace :)
Hana

[Joe98]

Christianity is an entire religion. Its much more than Christ.

I have started another thread just for your information. :happy:

[Woodrow]

Returning to the original topic.

Why do Christians eat pork?

I stated my believes about that a long ways back. Now I would like to add to it.

!. They do not see any restrictions to it.
2 It has been a staple food in their countries of origin for many generations
3. Quite often it is one of the lowest cost foods
4. It tastes good to them
5. For centuries it has been readily available

[*Hana*]

Salam Alaikum:

Yup, I'd have to agree with you there, brother. You're probably right on the mark with that one. :)

Wasalam,
Hana

[Woodrow]

Peace:

Not only Islam forbids it, so does Judaism, Christianity and many others.

peace,
Hana

Some Christian denominations allow the eating of pork.

[*Hana*]

Some Christian denominations allow the eating of pork.

Salam Alaikum:

Many do, but that doesn't mean the Bible does. :)

wasalam,
Hana

[glo]

Peace:

Not only Islam forbids it, so does Judaism, Christianity and many others.

peace,
Hana

Sorry, you are right that it is not just Islam that forbids the eating of pork. It wasn't the main point I was trying to make in my post, but you are right to point out my error. :thankyou:

Christianity forbids it too? Can you please explain?

What are the many other faiths that forbid the eating of pork? I don't know of any others - except those that don't permit the eating of any meat generally.

Peace. :)

[Woodrow]

Sorry, you are right that it is not just Islam that forbids the eating of pork. It wasn't the main point I was trying to make in my post, but you are right to point out my error. :thankyou:

Christianity forbids it too? Can you please explain?

What are the many other faiths that forbid the eating of pork? I don't know of any others - except those that don't permit the eating of any meat generally.

Peace. :)

A number of Christian denominations forbid it. The main one I can think of hand is the Seventh Day adventists. There are a number of others also. I believe several of the non-trinitarian Christian denominations also forbid it to.

[*Hana*]

Sorry, you are right that it is not just Islam that forbids the eating of pork. It wasn't the main point I was trying to make in my post, but you are right to point out my error. :thankyou:

Christianity forbids it too? Can you please explain?

What are the many other faiths that forbid the eating of pork? I don't know of any others - except those that don't permit the eating of any meat generally.

Peace. :)

Peace Glo:

Well, it's almost 5:00am for me and I need to get a few hours sleep so I honestly don't feel like looking it up online. lol But, I'm sure you can find the others that don't permit it if you searched. As far as christianity forbidding it, we actually had a big discussion about that and you can find it on this thread: Here

Take care and be well, Peace,
Hana :)

[glo]

Salam Alaikum:

Many do, but that doesn't mean the Bible does. :)

wasalam,
Hana

Jesus himself said so.
I don't have time to find the thread now, but I will try to remember later. It's in the 'Do Christians eat pork' thread ... I expect the threads may be linked by the mods anyway.

Gotta go!

Peace. :)

[glo]

Peace Glo:

Well, it's almost 5:00am for me and I need to get a few hours sleep so I honestly don't feel like looking it up online. lol But, I'm sure you can find the others that don't permit it if you searched. As far as christianity forbidding it, we actually had a big discussion about that and you can find it on this thread: Here

Take care and be well, Peace,
Hana :)

LOL
Same here ... work is calling!

Talk to you soon. :)

Peace.

[Woodrow]

There is a huge number of Christian Denominations and many sub branches within the denominations. With out looking at the beliefs of each of them, which is a long undertaking. Here is a list of the majory denominations with links to their individual beliefs.

http://www.answers.com/topic/list-of...-denominations

The largest denominations that I believe forbid the eating of pork are found within these groups.

Oneness Pentecostalism
Apostolic Assembly of the Faith in Christ Jesus
Apostolic Brethren
Apostolic Church of the Faith in Jesus Christ
Apostolic Overcoming Holy Church of God
Assemblies of the Lord Jesus Christ
Bible Way Church of Our Lord Jesus Christ
Church of Jesus Christ of Prophecy
Church of Our Lord Jesus Christ of the Apostolic Faith
House of Prayer Christian Church
International Church of Jesus Christ
Pentecostal Assemblies of the World
Potter's House Christian Fellowship
United Pentecostal Church

Mormonism
Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints
Community of Christ
Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints

Sabbath Keeping Churches, Adventist
Branch Davidians
Branch Seventh Day Adventists
Creation Seventh Day Adventist Church
Davidian Seventh-Day Adventist Association
General Association of Davidian Seventh-Day Adventists
International Missionary Society of the Seventh-Day Adventist Church Reform Movement
People's Christian Church
Promise Adventist Church - Brazilian Pentecostal Adventists
Seventh-day Adventist Church
Seventh Day Adventist Reform Movement
Sabbath Rest Advent Church

Sabbath Keeping Churches, Non Adventist
Assembly of God in Christ Jesus
Associated Churches, Inc.
Associates for Scriptural Knowledge
Biblical Church of God
Body of Christ Church of God
Church of God (Anadarko)
Church of God (Jesus Christ the Head) (UNICO)
Church of God (O'Brien)
Church of God (Philadelphia Era)
Church of God (Sabbatarian)
Church of God (Seventh Day, Salem, West Virginia)
Church of God Evangelical Association
Church of God's Truth
Church of the Great God
Congregation of God, Seventh Day
Congregation of God
Congregation of Yah
Foundation for Biblical Research
Foundation of Life Fellowship
General Conference of the Church of God (Seventh-Day)
General Council of the Churches of God
Global Church of God
Harmony of Life Fellowship
International Church of God (ICG)
Philadelphia Church of God
Restoration Church of God
Seventh-Day Church of God
The Eternal Church of God
The Pure Truth
Triumph Prophetic Ministries (Church of God)
Twentieth Century Church of God (Pennsylvania)
Twentieth Century Church of God
United Biblical Church of God
United Church of God
United Seventh-Day Brethren
Universal Church of God
World Insight International
Worldwide Church of God

[HeiGou]

Why do Christians eat pork?

I stated my believes about that a long ways back. Now I would like to add to it.

!. They do not see any restrictions to it.
2 It has been a staple food in their countries of origin for many generations
3. Quite often it is one of the lowest cost foods
4. It tastes good to them
5. For centuries it has been readily available

And perhaps because stable long-term agriculture is impossible without them. The Muslim world has to rely on goats for cheap meat. The result has been massive deforestation and environmental degradation and the dominance of nomads in Middle Eastern political life.

[HeiGou]

Many do, but that doesn't mean the Bible does. :)

Actually Jesus specifically and clearly says it does not matter what you eat. The OT forbids it but the NT does not.

[MinAhlilHadeeth]

So what's the point in the OT being part of the bible if they're going to reject parts of it, or the NT is going to contradict it?

[HeiGou]

So what's the point in the OT being part of the bible if they're going to reject parts of it, or the NT is going to contradict it?

Well the theory is not that much different to abrogation in Islam. Jesus came to "fulfill" the Law which is to say, abrogate parts of it and replace those parts with better bits. Specifically to change a focus on the letter of the Law to the spirit. So it does not matter what goes into your mouth, it matters what comes out and what is in your heart. Or at least that is my understanding. You may want to check with a Christian.

[MinAhlilHadeeth]

What do you mean when you say " it does not matter what goes into your mouth, it matters what comes out and what is in your heart"?

[searchingsoul]

So what's the point in the OT being part of the bible if they're going to reject parts of it, or the NT is going to contradict it?

historical content

great poems

[MinAhlilHadeeth]

Uh... right. So it's there for entertainment? Sorry, i'm not trying to be rude.

[HeiGou]

What do you mean when you say " it does not matter what goes into your mouth, it matters what comes out and what is in your heart"?

Well I was trying to reproduce a dimly remembered Biblical text. I think that Christians would cite,

Matt.15
[1] Then came to Jesus scribes and Pharisees, which were of Jerusalem, saying,
[2] Why do thy disciples transgress the tradition of the elders? for they wash not their hands when they eat bread.
[3] But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition?
[4] For God commanded, saying, Honour thy father and mother: and, He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death.
[5] But ye say, Whosoever shall say to his father or his mother, It is a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me;
[6] And honour not his father or his mother, he shall be free. Thus have ye made the commandment of God of none effect by your tradition.
[7] Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying,
[8] This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.
[9] But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
[10] And he called the multitude, and said unto them, Hear, and understand:
[11] Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man.
[12] Then came his disciples, and said unto him, Knowest thou that the Pharisees were offended, after they heard this saying?
[13] But he answered and said, Every plant, which my heavenly Father hath not planted, shall be rooted up.
[14] Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch.
[15] Then answered Peter and said unto him, Declare unto us this parable.
[16] And Jesus said, Are ye also yet without understanding?
[17] Do not ye yet understand, that whatsoever entereth in at the mouth goeth into the belly, and is cast out into the draught?
[18] But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man.
[19] For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies:
[20] These are the things which defile a man: but to eat with unwashen hands defileth not a man.

So Jesus is basically arguing that the Pharisees who obey the letter of the law, and so observe the dietry rules very carefully, are hypocrits who have missed the point - there is no point observing such rules if you go on to commit evil thoughts, murders etc etc. What counts is good character and right intention, not merely obeying the law exactly.

Likewise is the parable of the Good Samaritan

Luke.10

[30] And Jesus answering said, A certain man went down from Jerusalem to Jericho, and fell among thieves, which stripped him of his raiment, and wounded him, and departed, leaving him half dead.
[31] And by chance there came down a certain priest that way: and when he saw him, he passed by on the other side.
[32] And likewise a Levite, when he was at the place, came and looked on him, and passed by on the other side.
[33] But a certain Samaritan, as he journeyed, came where he was: and when he saw him, he had compassion on him,
[34] And went to him, and bound up his wounds, pouring in oil and wine, and set him on his own beast, and brought him to an inn, and took care of him.
[35] And on the morrow when he departed, he took out two pence, and gave them to the host, and said unto him, Take care of him; and whatsoever thou spendest more, when I come again, I will repay thee.
[36] Which now of these three, thinkest thou, was neighbour unto him that fell among the thieves?
[37] And he said, He that shewed mercy on him. Then said Jesus unto him, Go, and do thou likewise.

The Priest and the Levite, being Jewish, would not want to touch a man who might be dead or dying because that would make them unclean. So they passed by on the other side of the road. But the Samaritan did not care and had compassion on the sick. According to your average Christian, the rules of Cleanliness are not what is important here, but the compassion on the injured.

[searchingsoul]

Uh... right. So it's there for entertainment? Sorry, i'm not trying to be rude.

We learn from history. It should not be forgotten.

[MinAhlilHadeeth]

So how about this - you follow the law word for word, and you are sincere and true. Isn't that better? And how can you be sincere if you are not following your teachings word for word? To do otherwise seems rebellious to me.

[searchingsoul]

So how about this - you follow the law word for word, and you are sincere and true. Isn't that better? And how can you be sincere if you are not following your teachings word for word? To do otherwise seems rebellious to me.

Are you referring to the law in the Old Testament?

[MinAhlilHadeeth]

Yeah.... the OT and the NT seems like two whole different religions to me, unlike abbrogating in the Qur'an.

[searchingsoul]

Yeah.... the OT and the NT seems like two whole different religions to me, unlike abbrogating in the Qur'an.

In some respect the followers of the OT and NT are of two different religions. Those who follow the OT are Jewish. Those who follow the NT are Christian.

[searchingsoul]

So how about this - you follow the law word for word, and you are sincere and true. Isn't that better? And how can you be sincere if you are not following your teachings word for word? To do otherwise seems rebellious to me.

We clarified that you are referring to Christians not following the OT rules. In this case, it isn't a sign of rebellion since the NT contains the rules for Christians (not the OT).

[i_m_tipu]

We clarified that you are referring to Christians not following the OT rules. In this case, it isn't a sign of rebellion since the NT contains the rules for Christians (not the OT).

NT contains the rules for Christians

where does one find NT
i mean which books

[searchingsoul]

NT contains the rules for Christians

where does one find NT
i mean which books

The New Testament is the second half of the Christian Bible. It begins with the chapter of Matthew and ends with the chapter of Revelation.

[Muslim Soldier]

There is a fish the Japanese eat. It has a sack of poison and the fish must be prepared very, very carefully, or the poison will kill you.

The fish does not live in the oceans around the Middle East. As a result the fish is not banned in Islam.

That fish is more dangerous than pork.

-

Islam has banned anything that is harmful to health.
BTW muslims are only allowed to eat fish which had scales.

[MinAhlilHadeeth]

how is fish dangerous?

[Muslim Soldier]

You have misinterpreted the information. Eating pork is not a sin for the vast majority of Christians.

You can argue that eating pork SHOULD be considered a sin in Christianity. The fact remains that it is not a sin in Christianity. Just remember that Christians sometimes try to argue that hijab and other rules of Islam are not supported by the Islamic texts and should not be practised today.

It's best to let each religion decipher their own religious texts and make their own rules.

So in simplified terms what you are saying is that when christinas dont have anything to say theu attack the hijab?

[searchingsoul]

So in simplified terms what you are saying is that when christinas dont have anything to say theu attack the hijab?

No I'm not saying this at all. May reference to the hijab was used as an analogy.:)

[HeiGou]

how is fish dangerous?

It is poisonous.

I have had it, not without some trepidation, and I have to say, Nah. I don't see what the fuss is about. You've eaten one raw fish you've eaten them all.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fugu

Takifugu is a genus of pufferfish, often better known by the Japanese name Fugu (Japanese: 河豚). There are 25 species belonging to the genus Takifugu, which can be found worldwide from about 45° latitude north to 45° latitude south, mostly in salt water, but sometimes also in fresh water or brackish water. Their diet consists mostly of algae, mollusks, invertebrates and sometimes crustaceans. The fish defend themselves by inflating their bodies to several times normal size and by poisoning their predators. These defenses allow the fish to actively explore their environment without much fear of being attacked.

The fish is highly toxic, but despite this — or perhaps because of it — it is considered a delicacy in Japan. The fish contains lethal amounts of the poison tetrodotoxin in the internal organs, especially the liver and the ovaries, but also in the skin and the testicles. Therefore, only specially licensed chefs can prepare and sell fugu to the public, and the consumption of the liver and ovaries is forbidden. But because small amounts of the poison give a special desired sensation on the tongue, these parts are considered the most delicious by some gourmets. Every year a number of people die because they underestimate the amount of poison in the consumed fish parts.

The poison paralyzes the muscles while the victim stays fully conscious, and eventually dies from asphyxiation. There is currently no antidote, and the standard medical approach is to try to support the respiratory and circulatory system until the effect of the poison wears off. The fish is also featured prominently in Japanese art and culture.

[MinAhlilHadeeth]

Well i'm not japanese and I don't like poisonous fish, but how are non-poisonous fish harmful?

[IceQueen~]

if everything is made of what it consumes, then if pigs eat faeces and other muck, they are made of muck and if we eat pigs then we are made of muck...? that's yuck!

[searchingsoul]

if everything is made of what it consumes, then if pigs eat faeces and other muck, they are made of muck and if we eat pigs then we are made of muck...? that's yuck!

Chickens eat feces too. Rabbits eat their offspring.

[HeiGou]

if everything is made of what it consumes, then if pigs eat faeces and other muck, they are made of muck and if we eat pigs then we are made of muck...? that's yuck!

Chickens eat that sort of stuff too. Or worse. Tastes nice though.

[...]

Rabbits eat their offspring.

REALLY???:?

[MinAhlilHadeeth]

Rabbits eat their own offspring? Lol. Okie dokie.
And aren't pigs omnivores? So that could be one of the reasons they are haraam to eat.
:w:

[MinAhlilHadeeth]

Chickens eat that sort of stuff too. Or worse. Tastes nice though.

They sure do!

[IceQueen~]

at least chickens aren't 'homos'...

[searchingsoul]

REALLY???:?

Yes. It is true.

Also, parasites are present in fresh water and marine fish.

http://www.thelifetree.com/fishtapeworms.htm

[HeiGou]

at least chickens aren't 'homos'...

Some degree of homosexual behaviour is found in most species. I would make a bet, if I were a gambling man, that you will find homosexual behaviour among chickens. I wouldn't google for it though, if I were you.

Yep I checked on Wikipedia and chickens are on the list. Most cows in the West are born through artificial insemination and it has to be "collected". They usually use a younger Bull for this purpose.

[Muslim Soldier]

Chickens eat feces too. Rabbits eat their offspring.

Muslims arent allowed to eat rabbits
Chickens, when they eat faeces become haraam for muslims too unless ***** is done.

ps **** = :rollseyes

[searchingsoul]

Pigs in the wild are omnivores. These pigs are rarely eaten in the west.

[searchingsoul]

Muslims arent allowed to eat rabbits
Chickens, when they eat faeces become haraam for muslims too unless ***** is done.

ps **** = :rollseyes

How would one know if a chicken eats its own feces? It would be safer to assume that they all do. What has to be done to a feces eating chicken before it is no longer haram?

[searchingsoul]

A lot of fish in the supermarket is farm raised. They use chicken feces for food.

http://www.mercola.com/2006/jan/12/w...e_for_feed.htm

[Muslim Soldier]

How would one know if a chicken eats its own feces? It would be safer to assume that they all do. What has to be done to a feces eating chicken before it is no longer haram?

Am not a scolar but I think if the chickens eat human faces:giggling: (nice sp huh?) then there is a specific time during which the chicken has to be fed clen food or sumthin...:rollseyes

[MinAhlilHadeeth]

It doesnt matter anyway, Allah made it haraam and haraam is haraam.... fish is halaal so halaal is halaal!!!
lol@heigou

[Muslim Soldier]

A lot of fish in the supermarket is farm raised. They use chicken feces for food.

http://www.mercola.com/2006/jan/12/w...e_for_feed.htm

sorry I made a mistake. If chickens eat huan faeces then they are to be ....

[searchingsoul]

It doesnt matter anyway, Allah made it haraam and haraam is haraam.... fish is halaal so halaal is halaal!!!
lol@heigou

I think you give the best argument, that Allah made it haraam for Muslims. Trying to explain the pork prohibition to Christians by any other means is going to be difficult.

[MinAhlilHadeeth]

Exactly. If you have faith that your religion/way of life is correct, then you must trust in Allah that He knows best. He is after all 'The All-Knowing'.
-Peace

[*Hana*]

Actually Jesus specifically and clearly says it does not matter what you eat. The OT forbids it but the NT does not.

And if you read the entire thread you would see that is not the case.

[*Hana*]

Well the theory is not that much different to abrogation in Islam. Jesus came to "fulfill" the Law which is to say, abrogate parts of it and replace those parts with better bits. Specifically to change a focus on the letter of the Law to the spirit. So it does not matter what goes into your mouth, it matters what comes out and what is in your heart. Or at least that is my understanding. You may want to check with a Christian.

No, Jesus,pbuh, clearly said not ONE letter or dot would be changed and he did not come to destroy the law of the prophets before Him, He came to fulfill it. Again, if you had read the entire thread you would have seen that here:

So it does not matter what goes into your mouth, it matters what comes out and what is in your heart.

He is referring to words and is referring to the hyprocacy of the Pharasees. It has nothing to do with unclean meat, but started with discussing unclean hands.

Hana

[HeiGou]

And if you read the entire thread you would see that is not the case.

Well, I kind of doubt that. Who claims otherwise?

[searchingsoul]

He is referring to words and is referring to the hyprocacy of the Pharasees. It has nothing to do with unclean meat, but started with discussing unclean hands.

Hana

Most Christians do not view it as you do. It can be a reference to unclean meat.

[MinAhlilHadeeth]

Wooh sis, you tell 'em!
:w:

[*Hana*]

Well, I kind of doubt that. Who claims otherwise?

Your bible claims otherwise, as shown in previous threads. Again, not MY iinterpretation.

[*Hana*]

Most Christians do not view it as you do. It can be a reference to unclean meat.

It is obviously not about unclean meat....all you have to do is start with the first verse, read it in context. It is CLEARLY referring to the hypocracy of the comments made by the pharasees.

Peace
Hana

[HeiGou]

Your bible claims otherwise, as shown in previous threads. Again, not MY iinterpretation.

It is not my Bible and it clearly does not claim otherwise. I do not know what threads you mean. Would you mind giving me a reference?

[HeiGou]

It is obviously not about unclean meat....all you have to do is start with the first verse, read it in context. It is CLEARLY referring to the hypocracy of the comments made by the pharasees.

And what context would that be other than a Christian one?

[HeiGou]

No, Jesus,pbuh, clearly said not ONE letter or dot would be changed and he did not come to destroy the law of the prophets before Him, He came to fulfill it. Again, if you had read the entire thread you would have seen that here:

I did not say He changing one letter or one dot. I said He came to fulfil the Law. Which He said He did.

He is referring to words and is referring to the hyprocacy of the Pharasees. It has nothing to do with unclean meat, but started with discussing unclean hands.

And yet the shift in interpretation as applied to hands means a shift in interpretation as applied to other things. Either the letter of the law is vital or it is not. You cannot demean that passage by arguing it only applies to hands.

[searchingsoul]

Christians often interpret the passage to apply to unclean meat. It will be hard for a Muslim (or any non-Christian) to convince a Christian that their interpretation is incorrect. That is as bold as a Christian stating that they know the accurate interpretation of the Koran, which differs from the Muslim interpretation.

[*Hana*]

And what context would that be other than a Christian one?

You can argue for the sake of arguing as you normall do, HeiGou, up to you. But, I'm sure you understand the meaning of context and do not need it explained to you.

Hana

[*Hana*]

It is not my Bible and it clearly does not claim otherwise. I do not know what threads you mean. Would you mind giving me a reference?

I said threads, I mean posts: #45, #66 and #74. You wanna believe it doesn't, that too is up you.

Eat pork, be happy. :D

Hana

[HeiGou]

You can argue for the sake of arguing as you normall do, HeiGou, up to you. But, I'm sure you understand the meaning of context and do not need it explained to you.

Well I don't think I do argue for the sake of it. Look at all the threads I steer clear of. But you have to admit it is ironic that a Muslim ought to be telling an crypto-atheist about what the Bible really means.

The context is clear and is clearly part of Jesus' larger message - the actually specifically letter of the law does not matter compared to what is meant and felt. See the Good Samaritan.

[*Hana*]

Christians often interpret the passage to apply to unclean meat. It will be hard for a Muslim (or any non-Christian) to convince a Christian that their interpretation is incorrect. That is as bold as a Christian stating that they know the accurate interpretation of the Koran, which differs from the Muslim interpretation.

Peace Searchingsoul:

As I have said many times, this is not my interpretation. You want to dismiss it using the excuse "a Muslim said", up to you. I didn't just copy and paste from a christian bashing site, I didn't go through the bible picking out verses. I read what biblical scholars said, then checked the verses for myself.

Christians "often" interpreting as something is fine....the choice is yours. But, I looked it up for myself and if and others did the same you would see what the verse is talking about and it isn't unclean meat. But, hey, you want to interpret it as meat and eat it....completely up to you. I just told you what I found and for me personally, it makes perfect sense. If it doesn't for you...so be it. :)

With peace,
Hana

[*Hana*]

Well I don't think I do argue for the sake of it. Look at all the threads I steer clear of. But you have to admit it is ironic that a Muslim ought to be telling an crypto-atheist about what the Bible really means.

The context is clear and is clearly part of Jesus' larger message - the actually specifically letter of the law does not matter compared to what is meant and felt. See the Good Samaritan.

LOOOOOOOL for the millionth time, this is NOT MY INTERPRETATION and I never claimed it to be. I posted the verses with the interpretation from biblical scholars. As a former Christian myself these are typical of the questions I had that wouldn't/couldn't be answered.

Yes, the context is clear that He is referring to unclean hands. Turn it to mean meat, turn it to mean whatever you want, accept them or don't....not my problem or concern.

I just posted the verses, you want to dismiss them...go for it, it's your right and it doesn't effect me in the least. :)

Hana

[primitivefuture]

http://www.islamicvoice.com/february.99/zakir.htm

Questions Commonly Asked by Non-Muslims - VI : Why is Pork Forbidden? By Dr. Zakir Naik

Question: Why is the eating of pork forbidden in Islam?

Answer: The fact that consumption of pork is prohibited in Islam is well known. The following points explain various aspects of this prohibition:

1. Pork-prohibited in Qur’an

The Qur’an prohibits the consumption of pork in no less than 4 different places. Its prohibited in 2:173, 5:3, 6:145 and 16:115.

Forbidden to you (for food) are: dead meat, blood, the flesh of swine, and that on which hath been invoked a name other than that of Allah. [Al-Qur’an 5:3] The above verses of the Holy Qur’an are sufficient to satisfy a Muslim as to why pork is forbidden.

2. Pork prohibited in the Bible

The Christian is likely to be convinced by his religious scriptures. The Bible prohibits the consumption of pork, in the book of Leviticus and the swine, as he divideth the hoof, and be cloven footed, yet he cheweth not the cud; he is unclean to you. Of their flesh shall ye not eat, and their carcass shall ye not touch, they are unclean to you. Leviticus chapter 11 verse 7 and 8:
Pork is also prohibited in the book of Deuteronomy

And the swine, because it divideth the hoof, yet cheweth not the cud, it is unclean unto you. Ye shall not eat of their flesh, nor touch their dead carcass. Deuteronomy chapter 14 verse 8:

A similar prohibition is repeated in the book of Isaiah chapter 65 verse 2-5.

3. Consumption of pork causes several diseases

The other non-Muslims and atheists will agree only if convinced through reason, logic and science. Eating of pork can cause no less than seventy different types of diseases. A person can have various Helminthes, like roundworm, pinworm, hookworm, etc. One of the most dangerous is Taenia Solium, which in a layman’s terminology is called tapeworm. It harbours in the intestine and is very long. Its ova i.e. eggs, enter the blood stream and can reach almost all the organs of the body. If it enters the brain it can cause memory loss. If it enters the heart it can cause heart attack and if it enters the eye it can cause blindness. If it enters the liver it can cause liver damage. It can damage almost all the organs of the body.

Another dangerous helminthes is Taenia Tichurasis. A common misconception about pork is that if it is cooked well, these ova die. In a research project undertaken in America, it was found that out of twenty-four people suffering from

Taenia tichurasis, twenty two had cooked the pork very well. This indicates that the ovas present in the pork do not die under normal cooking temperature.

4. Pork has fat building material

Pork has very little muscle building material and contains excess of fat. This fat gets deposited in the vessels and can cause hypertension and heart attack. It is not surprising that over 50% of Americans suffer from hypertension.

5. Pig is one of the filthiest animals on earth

The pig is one of the filthiest animals on earth. It lives and thrives on muck, faeces and dirt. It is the best scavenger that I know that God has produced. In the villages they don’t have modern toilets and the villagers excrete in the open air. Very often excreta is cleared by pigs.

Some may argue that in advanced countries like Australia, pigs are bred in very clean and hygienic conditions. Even in these hygienic conditions the pigs are kept together in sties. No matter how hard you try to keep them clean they are filthy by nature. They eat and enjoy their own as well as their neighbour’s excreta.

6. Pig is the most shameless animal

The pig is the most shameless animal on the face of the earth. It is the only animal that invites its friends to have sex with its mate. It feels no jealousy. And among people who consume pork, the practice of wife swapping and other forms of promiscuous behaviour is common.

[HeiGou]

6. Pig is the most shameless animal

The pig is the most shameless animal on the face of the earth. It is the only animal that invites its friends to have sex with its mate. It feels no jealousy. And among people who consume pork, the practice of wife swapping and other forms of promiscuous behaviour is common.

I love this claim. This nonsense keeps coming back but it still ain't true. Wild boar have large tusks that can kill horses. They use them for, among other things, goring any other male pig that comes close to their females. They are dangerous animals and have killed people, kings even. They do not share their females with anyone.

And I love the idea that eating pork makes the Chinese swap wives.

[primitivefuture]

And I love the idea that eating pork makes the Chinese swap wives.

Then you'll love this this even more :)

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/en/doc/...ent_262427.htm

There is even a "Wife Swapping club" LOL.....

[Tania]

Then you'll love this this even more :)

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/en/doc/...ent_262427.htm

There is even a "Wife Swapping club" LOL.....

Do you know the pig is clean.:offended: The people making them unclean.If i will lock you up in a close space without to come and clean it ,how clean will become yourself? Every animal is clean.:)
The fact is forbidden it must be related to the pig meat which everyone knows is fat. Another issue, in that times where they could keep the pig meat?without fridge everyone knows the pig meat, due to his fat, can be threw in few hours.I heard are over 40 degrees in the afternoon and only 10 degress in the night over there.

[mas]

no offense to the christian . they change their bible whenever they feel like it for example eating pork and many other example's (which i dont want to say).this my opinion. no offense my questions why do u have many different books of the bible and how come u dont follow everything that says in the bible. and if yall dont follow it ,how come u call ur self christian

[woodworm]

I eat pork because i dont live my life by some book and i like to make my own decisions. I eat pork because it tastes good and there is nothing wrong with it. I eat pork because i also eat chicken, beef and squirrel. you should really try it islam dudes, you might just like it!

[mas]

no i dont think so .thats why we left it for u ppl. lol
peace

[al-fateh]

I dont get it.

Jesus, being Jewish, never ate pork. Jews dont eat pork, neither do Muslims. Since Islam, Judaism, and Christianity are Semitic faiths, why is there a drastic change with Christains? Under what historical context did they end up eating pork?

Peace.

:sl:


Jesus was not a Jew, it is an established fact that all the Prophets and Messengers of God were sent as light bearers to humanity; they all came with the purpose of upholding the truth, maintaining justice and bringing man closer to his Lord. In accomplishing this task, Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him), as well as other Prophets of God, had to undergo a series of difficulties, hardships and torment to make people grasp and believe in the message brought to them. As members of the human family, we should show all forms of respect to Allah's Prophets and Messengers. We should in anyway project any of Allah's Prophets or Messengers in a bad way. Rather, we should follow their guidance and stick to their footsteps in order to achieve steadfastness and uprightness in our lives.


Delving deeper in this issue,Dr. Muzammil Siddiqi, President of the Fiqh Council of North America, stated in his Khutbah at the Islamic Society of Orange County (California, USA) on Shawwal 15, 1423/December 20, 2002:


Almighty Allah says: [Say ye: we believe in Allah, and the revelation given to us, and to Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob, and the Tribes, and that given to Moses and Jesus, and that given to (all) Prophets from their Lord: we make no difference between one and another of them: and we bow to Allah (in Islam).] (Al-Baqarah 2: 136)

[Behold! the angels said: ‘O Mary! Allah giveth Thee glad tidings of a Word from Him: his name will be Christ Jesus, the son of Mary, held in honor in this world and the Hereafter and of (the company of) those nearest to Allah.] (Aal `Imran 3: 45)

We believe in all the Prophets and Messengers of Allah. We respect and honor all of them without any discrimination. We believe that all Prophets preached the message of tawhid (monotheism) and all of them invited human beings to worship Allah alone and live a righteous life. Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) was not the only Prophet of God, but he was the last and final Prophet of God. Prophet Muhammad is not the founder of Islam; all Prophets were Muslims and they followed the way of Islam.


It may be a surprise to many people in America that we Muslims also believe in Jesus. Although we do not celebrate Christmas, but we do respect and honor the person in whose name this festival is observed. We believe that Jesus was one of the great Prophets of God. In the Qur’an he is called ‘Isa. He is also known as al-Masih (the Christ) and Ibn Maryam (Son of Mary). He has many other beautiful names and titles in the Qur’an. He is a highly respected religious figure. Every Muslim honors him, respects him and loves him. His mother is also highly respected, loved and honored. There are hundreds of thousands of Muslim men all over the world who feel proud and blessed to have the name `Isa; as there are thousands of Muslim women who feel honored and blessed to be called Maryam.

Unlike the Gospels or the New Testament in general, the subject matter of the Qur’an is not Jesus. The Qur’an speaks in detail about God, God’s will for human beings and about many of God’s Prophets and Messengers. Yet, all the basic facts about Jesus’ life are mentioned in the Qur’an. The Qur’an says in several places that Mary was a pious virgin who devoted her life in prayer and divine service. The angel of God one day visited her and gave her the good news of the birth of a blessed child. This was a miraculous birth as Mary was not a married woman. The virgin birth is clearly mentioned in the Qur’an and no recognized Muslim authority has ever disputed this claim. However, Muslim and Christian interpretations differ on the meaning of virgin birth. For Christians it was the sign of incarnation, the coming to earth of the Son of God. For Muslims it was a special miracle. For every Prophet a particular miracle was given according to the needs and challenges of his time. Since Jesus’ contemporaries used to deny the existence of spirit, they were shown the presence and the power of divine spirit by this unique birth. Jesus also performed many other miracles, such as raising of the dead to life, healing the blind and lepers, speaking about the hidden things. All these miracles show that material is not the only thing; there is something beyond the material that must be recognized. Jesus reminds us about the power of Divine Spirit. The Qur’an emphasizes that Jesus performed all his miracles only by the permission of God.

The message of Jesus was basically the same as the message of other prophets of God. He was sent to invite people to the worship of One God, to do the righteous deed and be kind and loving to others. He reminded his people to pay attention not only to the letter of the laws but also to the spirit of the laws.

The Qur’an says that Jesus was mistreated, denied and rejected by his people just as other prophets were also mistreated. Some of his contemporaries opposed him and tried to crucify him. It is also reported in the Christian Bible that Jesus prayed to God to save him from his enemies and remove the “cup of death” from him. (“If thou art willing, remove this cup from me; nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done.” Mark 14:36 and Luke 22:42) God accepted Jesus’ prayer and saved him from crucifixion or death on the cross. He was lifted up to heaven (Al-Nisa’: 157-158). Jesus is yet to fulfill his Messianic role. Muslims believe that Jesus will come back to earth before the end of time and will restore peace and order, struggle against the Anti-Christ (Dajjal) or demonic forces, and bring victory for truth and righteousness. The true followers of Jesus will prevail over those who deny him, misrepresent him and reject him.

Muslims and Christians differ in their Theology (views about God) and their Christology (views about Christ), but they both believe in the same God and in the same Jesus. There should be better understanding and better relations among them.


:w:

[Isa Abdullah]

Bismillah

Salaam,

It is true that Swine flesh is forbidden to all; however, Paulianity Christianity has promoted the teaching that the Christians do not have to follow the law any more. The Jewish Bible is superceded by the New Testament (Christian Bible). It is confusing to the unlearned, solely because the debate between the Christians on how much of the law should be followed is still being debated. Even in the many Epistles of Paul, circumcision is negated. Circumcision of the heart is promoted. The laws that Isa ibn Maryam (as) kept ferventy suddenly are of no meaning because of the blood atonement that the Christians say he so readily provided. However, there is a deeper question that needs to be answered honestly, the law that Isa(as) kept is now abrogated, however, Paul comes and makes new laws in place of Isa(as). The Muslims are more Christian than the Christian themselves and we actually tread the footsteps of Isa (as).

[mas]

thats wat iam sayin ... isnt weird to have more than one and changing where ever they feel like it or as they say god told them ...
no one ever answer my questions im guessing they dont have answers. peace

[Isa Abdullah]

Bismillah


The point is: It's a pick and choose situation. You can follow the law, but it amounts to nothing with God they say because our good deeds are like filthy rags.

There are indeed many Christian sects which dont eat swine and celebrate the sabbath on Saturday, etc. So some sects are more in line with the truth than others.

[Isa Abdullah]

thats wat iam sayin ... isnt weird to have more than one and changing where ever they feel like it or as they say god told them ...
no one ever answer my questions im guessing they dont have answers. peace

Bismillah

And what is the ?