PDA

View Full Version : 'Lyrical terrorist' convicted for jihad poems



------
11-09-2007, 09:23 AM
:salamext:

'Lyrical terrorist' convicted for jihad poems

Samina Malik: on her social networking website she said her interests were: "Helping the mujahaddin in any way which I can ... I am well known as lyrical terrorist"
A Heathrow worker who called herself the “Lyrical Terrorist” burst into tears today after becoming the first woman to be convicted under new terrorism legislation.

Samina Malik, 23, was found guilty at the Old Bailey of possessing records likely to be used for terrorism by a majority of 10 to one.

The court had heard that Malik, who worked at WH Smith, wrote poems entitled How To Behead and The Living Martyrs and stocked a "library" of documents useful to terrorists.

When her home was searched in October last year, police discovered a ring binder full of documents as well as a bracelet bearing the word "jihad". They also discovered a sticker on a mirror inside the door, bearing the words "lyrical terrorist".

In one handwritten document found by police, she wrote: "Many opportunities have been given to me but something always holds me back.

"I always sit alone to think and ponder how it would be to unite with the Muslim ummah and to go shoot rocket-launchers, help them load their ammunition, nurse the wounded, and what the atmosphere would be like."

Also found were publications by Sheikh Omar Bakri, the extremist cleric, as well as a printed-out version of the "declaration of war" by Osama bin Laden.

One poem found at her property, called The Living Martyrs, said: "Let us make Jihad/ Move to the front line/ To chop chop head of kuffar swine".

A second poem, called How to Behead, read: "It’s not as messy or as hard as some may think/ It’s all about the flow of the wrist."

Several documents were discovered on her computer, including The Mujaheddin Poisoner’s Handbook, Encyclopaedia Jihad, How To Win In Hand To Hand Combat, How To Make Bombs and Sniper Manual.

The court heard that Malik had also belonged to the social networking site Hi-5, a similar site to Facebook or MySpace. On this she listed her interests as: "Helping the mujahaddin in any way which I can ... I am well known as lyrical terrorist."

Under favourite TV shows, it said: "Watching videos by my Muslim brothers in Iraq, yep the beheading ones, watching video messages by Osama bin Laden and Ayman al-Zawahri and other videos which show massacres of the kaffirs."

In another internet entry, the court heard, she wrote the names Sheikh Abu Hamza al-Masri, Sheikh Abu Qatada, Sheikh Osama bin Laden and Abu Musa al Zarqawi.

Sentencing Malik for possessing records likely to be useful in terrorism under the Terrorism Act 2000, Judge Peter Beaumont, the Recorder of London, bailed her under what he described as "house arrest" to be sentenced on December 6 and ordered reports into her family background.

He told her: "You have been in many respects a complete enigma to me." He warned her that "all sentencing options remain open".

Source

Views on this brothers and sisters?
Reply

Login/Register to hide ads. Scroll down for more posts
Ummu Sufyaan
11-09-2007, 09:29 AM
:sl:
a) why do i get this feeling that this is a fabrication so that the attention will be turned on muslim women "woah man, becareful, dont wear your hijaab." "uncover, we know you're hiding somethin." if thats not alrready happening.

b) (even if it were true), freedom of speech!!! yeah right! :rollseyes. that statement can be a little over rated..
It’s all about the flow of the wrist.
lol..i like that line. am i gonna get locked up too? but i probably should stop asking for it though. lol

EDIT: i also think that this is just a scare tactic. make us paranois and insecure about practising our religon, as well as others about us.
:sl:
Reply

------
11-09-2007, 09:46 AM
:salamext:

yeh....I don't really think there is anythig rong with the poems...so what? She likes Jihad and poems.......that doesnt make her a terrorist!
Reply

IbnAbdulHakim
11-09-2007, 09:50 AM
the sister seems pious mashaAllah, shes trying to practise her deen, the stupid west should just lay off her

i doubt its a fabrication, more like an attempt to bring attention to muslims again, sad world got nothing better to do


assalamu alaikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuhu
Reply

Welcome, Guest!
Hey there! Looks like you're enjoying the discussion, but you're not signed up for an account.

When you create an account, you can participate in the discussions and share your thoughts. You also get notifications, here and via email, whenever new posts are made. And you can like posts and make new friends.
Sign Up
Ummu Sufyaan
11-09-2007, 09:51 AM
:sl:
yeah man, i reckon.
that doesnt make her a terrorist!
apparentlty it does. because the laws of some counties have "conviently" changed against the muslims. everyone gets righs, except us. anyone can say whatever they want, dress however they want, except we are the only ones that get looked down upon.

is it just me, or do you the feeling that in some countries (im thinking laong hte lines of the western ones) there is this over insecuriy and paranoier. its like, get a grip already!
i doubt its a fabrication, more like an attempt to bring attention to muslims again, sad world got nothing better to do
thats a good point too. i dont see why they make such a big issue out of nothing.
:sl:
Reply

aamirsaab
11-09-2007, 09:52 AM
:sl:
Double-standards, anyone?
Reply

------
11-09-2007, 09:52 AM
:salamext:

I like writing poetry, and I like Jihad! SO SUE ME! :-\

I have a feeling that the Britains are scared of Muslims :D
Reply

IbnAbdulHakim
11-09-2007, 09:54 AM
Originally Posted by aamirsaab
:sl:
Double-standards, anyone?
lol you make it sound like your offering coffee, heck why not i'll have some :D

I like writing poetry, and I like Jihad! SO SUE ME!
I DONT KNOW YOU

see Mi5 im a good guy ;)


lol, btw same here, love poetry n get hyped when its on the extreme side, dnt wanna get sue'd tho, might prevent me from stuff :blind:


assalamu alaikum wa rahmatullah
Reply

S_87
11-09-2007, 09:56 AM
:sl:

why did she want to know how to make bombs?
Reply

IbnAbdulHakim
11-09-2007, 09:58 AM
Originally Posted by amani
:sl:

why did she want to know how to make bombs?
me and my friends looked into that when we were in college, call it a phase :-\

also because i was studying electronics, it just intrigued me, i wasnt bout to go bombing people though..
Reply

------
11-09-2007, 10:00 AM
:salamext:

Maybe it was just an obsession? Like I'm obsessed with AK-47, doesn't mean I gonna buy one! YET :D
Reply

Muezzin
11-09-2007, 10:22 AM
As Jar Jar might say, 'Dissen belongen in da bombad World Affairs section, boyos!'
Reply

Ummu Sufyaan
11-09-2007, 10:23 AM
:sl:
oh uh, this is going to turn into a verbal blood bath.
:sl:
Reply

Muezzin
11-09-2007, 10:25 AM
Originally Posted by maryam11
:sl:
oh uh, this is going to turn into a verbal blood bath.
:sl:
I hope not. I'm holding the mop.

Seriously everyone reading and thinking of posting on this thread, be sensible and don't act like foolish Internet nutters.
Reply

------
11-09-2007, 10:25 AM
:salamext:

Eh? Wot dyou mean?
Reply

IbnAbdulHakim
11-09-2007, 10:29 AM
Originally Posted by Muezzin
I hope not. I'm holding the mop.

Seriously everyone reading and thinking of posting on this thread, be sensible and don't act like foolish Internet nutters.
good advice bro :)

you can put that mop away now :p
Reply

Suomipoika
11-09-2007, 10:52 AM
Originally Posted by aamirsaab
:sl:
Double-standards, anyone?
I know, I noticed that too. Mention danish cartoons and the opinions on this forum in regards of freedom of speech are totally reversed.

To be honest, Im not sure if she should belong to jail, however what she says is scary (especially in the light of what happened in London while ago aswell as the botched attempt) and violent.

Is that what muslim should be writing?
Reply

------
11-09-2007, 10:54 AM
:salamext:

There is nothing wrong with having a desire to write poems about Jihad! :-\
Reply

IbnAbdulHakim
11-09-2007, 10:59 AM
Originally Posted by Suomipoika
I know, I noticed that too. Mention danish cartoons and the opinions on this forum in regards of freedom of speech are totally reversed.

To be honest, Im not sure if she should belong to jail, however what she says is scary (especially in the light of what happened in London while ago aswell as the botched attempt) and violent.

Is that what muslim should be writing?
to be honest its just an expression... an outlet if you will

when we see the violence in palestine kashmir chechnya afghanistan africa etc etc etc etc

we feel things inside... thats all it is...
Reply

Muezzin
11-09-2007, 11:03 AM
Several documents were discovered on her computer, including The Mujaheddin Poisoner’s Handbook, Encyclopaedia Jihad, How To Win In Hand To Hand Combat, How To Make Bombs and Sniper Manual.
Why the news reports don't stress this finding more than a few poems, notes written on the backs of receipts and a flaming sticker on her mirror is quite beyond me.
Reply

Suomipoika
11-09-2007, 11:21 AM
Originally Posted by IbnAbdulHakim
to be honest its just an expression... an outlet if you will

when we see the violence in palestine kashmir chechnya afghanistan africa etc etc etc etc

we feel things inside... thats all it is...
Well, "we westeners" feel inside too, but when we go venting out racism or violence it is and rightfully so, condemned.

Why not so for her?

She watches mass killing of "kaffirs", idolises people like Bin Laden, then writes violent poems. She could be the poster girl why "west" thinks islam is violent religion.

And instead of condemning what she says...
Reply

IbnAbdulHakim
11-09-2007, 11:25 AM
Originally Posted by Suomipoika
Well, "we westeners" feel inside too, but when we go venting out racism or violence it is and rightfully so, condemned.

Why not so for her?

She watches mass killing of "kaffirs", idolises people like Bin Laden, then writes violent poems. She could be the poster girl why "west" thinks islam is violent religion.

And instead of condemning what she says...
she didnt vent in public :)


if she did then that was certainly a mistake...

to be honest islaam teaches patience...so she definitly was mistaken in many actions.

may Allah guide us
Reply

Ummu Sufyaan
11-09-2007, 11:51 AM
She could be the poster girlwhy "west" thinks islam is violent religion.
the west think islam is a violent religion becuase they are hungry for oil.
And instead of condemning what she says...
i've heard worse things, and people have kept silent.
peace...
Reply

Muezzin
11-09-2007, 12:27 PM
Originally Posted by Suomipoika
Well, "we westeners" feel inside too, but when we go venting out racism or violence it is and rightfully so, condemned.
I'm not sure writing poems, however hateful they might be, is an arrestable or imprisonable offence in the UK. Maybe they're covered by the hate crime laws. I'll need to check.

Edit: Ah, you're looking for condemnation. Well, if she wrote hateful poems, I condemn those hateful poems, and I condemn the sort of mindset which leads to writing them.

Why not so for her?

She watches mass killing of "kaffirs", idolises people like Bin Laden, then writes violent poems. She could be the poster girl why "west" thinks islam is violent religion.
The point is the conviction was not (or should not have been, at least) based on these poems - it was based more on the bomb-making manuals in her possession (or if not, it should have been).

Am I the only one who thinks the whole poetry/weird views about Bin Laden angle is a red herring?
Reply

Cognescenti
11-09-2007, 03:24 PM
"Let us make Jihad/ Move to the front line/ To chop chop head of kuffar swine".


She ought to be in prison, if for no other reason than making us suffer through such an afront to the English language.

I don't really know what to do with people that hold such views but have not taken concrete steps (which can be documented) to act on them.

Imagine this scenario. These items are discoverd by the authorities. She is released for lack of evidence. Two weeks later she sprays her own body parts and those of others all over a bus. Someone would have some serious 'splainin' to do. It's the "connect the dots" problem.
Reply

Muezzin
11-09-2007, 03:32 PM
Originally Posted by Cognescenti
"Let us make Jihad/ Move to the front line/ To chop chop head of kuffar swine".


She ought to be in prison, if for no other reason than making us suffer through such an afront to the English language.

I don't really know what to do with people that hold such views but have not taken concrete steps (which can be documented) to act on them.

Imagine this scenario. These items are discoverd by the authorities. She is released for lack of evidence. Two weeks later she sprays her own body parts and those of others all over a bus. Someone would have some serious 'splainin' to do. It's the "connect the dots" problem.
There is no 'connect the dots' problem. She had a 'make your own bomb' book. In light of that, the poetry and everything else is irrelevant except for the prosecution to illustrate her character.

Which is why I'm a bit puzzled that everybody seems to be focusing so much on the poems.
Reply

Al-Zaara
11-09-2007, 03:37 PM
I didn't like those poems, and you know describing how to chop off heads and how to make the blood run is violent, whoever may write it. And idolizing Bin Laden, is not good either. You can write about Jihad in much better ways, in it's true forms. Violence isn't what Jihad is about.

But mostly those bombs - These days it's not really so innocent if someone wants to create bombs, anyone knows it, especially if she lives in the UK. I wonder what happens to her...
Reply

Mysterious Uk
11-09-2007, 03:37 PM
Thanks for this post, i was wondering what had happened to her.
Reply

Jayda
11-09-2007, 03:53 PM
Originally Posted by maryam11
:sl:
a) why do i get this feeling that this is a fabrication so that the attention will be turned on muslim women "woah man, becareful, dont wear your hijaab." "uncover, we know you're hiding somethin." if thats not alrready happening.

b) (even if it were true), freedom of speech!!! yeah right! :rollseyes. that statement can be a little over rated..

lol..i like that line. am i gonna get locked up too? but i probably should stop asking for it though. lol

EDIT: i also think that this is just a scare tactic. make us paranois and insecure about practising our religon, as well as others about us.
:sl:
Originally Posted by IbnAbdulHakim
the sister seems pious mashaAllah, shes trying to practise her deen, the stupid west should just lay off her

i doubt its a fabrication, more like an attempt to bring attention to muslims again, sad world got nothing better to do


assalamu alaikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuhu



hola...

you two cannot possibly mean these things you are saying about liking her lyrics or believing this is peity... i do not know if any of this is a crime but it is terrifying to me that there are people like this girl who hates us that much and thinks about these horrible things. the word kaffir instantly frightens me for that reason

que Dios te bendiga
Reply

czgibson
11-09-2007, 03:53 PM
Greetings,

Not for the first time, I've been surprised by how long it took for any Muslim poster here to condemn these sorts of actions. If I was a Muslim I would be horrified at the behaviour of this girl.

It's also interesting to note that we've had some quiet censorship of the thread; one post, indicating that a member here might have known the girl in question (or perhaps that we all did) has been silently removed.

What are we ashamed of, people?

Peace
Reply

Muezzin
11-09-2007, 03:57 PM
Originally Posted by czgibson
Greetings,

Not for the first time, I've been surprised by how long it took for any Muslim poster here to condemn these sorts of actions. If I was a Muslim I would be horrified at the behaviour of this girl.
The offending poems are shameful; the bomb-making stuff is horrifying.

It's also interesting to note that we've had some quiet censorship of the thread; one post, indicating that a member here might have known the girl in question (or perhaps that we all did) has been silently removed.
I removed it on that member's request.
Reply

Jayda
11-09-2007, 03:59 PM
lol i have the mario theme in my head... it is such a jovial little tune!
Reply

czgibson
11-09-2007, 04:04 PM
Greetings,
Originally Posted by Muezzin
The offending poems are shameful; the bomb-making stuff is horrifying.
Well, yes. That would make defending her on a forum like this a pretty stupid thing to do, then, wouldn't it?

I removed it on that member's request.
Fair enough. I wonder who it was?

Peace
Reply

Ali.
11-09-2007, 04:25 PM
:sl:

They're too paranoid. The other day on the news: "We think there are over 3000 Muslim terrorists in the UK working secretely..."
And they know that how...? They're just getting way too paranoid all of a sudden.
Reply

wilberhum
11-09-2007, 05:34 PM
Just because you are paranoid doesn't mean you arn't being watched. :skeleton:

How many "Muslim terrorists in the UK working secretely" do you think there is?
Reply

Ali.
11-09-2007, 05:51 PM
Originally Posted by wilberhum
Just because you are paranoid doesn't mean you arn't being watched. :skeleton:

How many "Muslim terrorists in the UK working secretely" do you think there is?
You misunderstood me. I'm Muslim, I said I heard on the Radio that they were discussing the number of Muslim terrorists in the UK.
Reply

sarah85
11-09-2007, 06:33 PM
Originally Posted by czgibson
Greetings,

Not for the first time, I've been surprised by how long it took for any Muslim poster here to condemn these sorts of actions. If I was a Muslim I would be horrified at the behaviour of this girl.

It's also interesting to note that we've had some quiet censorship of the thread; one post, indicating that a member here might have known the girl in question (or perhaps that we all did) has been silently removed.

What are we ashamed of, people?

Peace
You say you are horrified at her behaviour. What is her behaviour? writing lyrics? Right across the UK hundreds of thousands of poems are written or have been written about the IRA- no one was arrested for them. Shouldnt u b horrified at that? Thousands of poems and articles and books glorying wars that kill and are killing hundreds of blacks and Asians are written- again no one bats an eyelid- shouldnt u b horrified at that?
The Zionists in press article after press article demand war on Iran that will kill a million more people then any terrorist attack- not a single arrest. isn't that something to b horrified about?

She had some questionable material but her poems and writing hardly pose a threat to the nation. The government is trying to create a climate of fear and the neo cons like Policy Exchange are joining in hence the Satanic Verses and the blasphemous cartoons are ok because they represent free speech but Muslim literature is not ok. Complete hypocrisy.
Reply

Keltoi
11-09-2007, 06:40 PM
Something tells me that the problem went beyond simply her "lyrics". I think Muezzin mentioned that as well.

Here is a similar scenario. After the Columbine school shooting, people were obviously on edge about troubled teens who might open fire in the cafeteria. This led to many arrests of students that had "death lists" of fellow classmates or displayed suspicious behavior.

Sometimes it is much better to be safe than sorry.
Reply

sarah85
11-09-2007, 07:16 PM
Originally Posted by Keltoi
Something tells me that the problem went beyond simply her "lyrics". I think Muezzin mentioned that as well.

Here is a similar scenario. After the Columbine school shooting, people were obviously on edge about troubled teens who might open fire in the cafeteria. This led to many arrests of students that had "death lists" of fellow classmates or displayed suspicious behavior.

Sometimes it is much better to be safe than sorry.
One cannot play safe to the extent of crushing civil liberties. It is not fair that innocent peoples lives are wrecked because of the actions of a few minorities. We cannot justify what those innocents go through by claiming to be 'safe than sorry'.

One should look at the root of the problem. The government would have served better to endorse their efforts into rooting out the troubles of these teenagers to prevent the problem from being exacerbated. In the same way the problem of terrorism does not lie in Islam or any other religion. The problem of terrorism lies in foreign policy and this should be resolved rather then delving into paranoia and arresting people on mere suspicion.
Reply

Fishman
11-09-2007, 08:00 PM
:sl:
So, this is illegal hate speech whilst the Muhammad (peace be upon him) cartoons and the BNP are freedom of expression? Sounds like double standards. I am not saying that what the girl said was right, but that if they want to hold their position they should logically outlaw the far-right and also condemn the Muhammad (peace be upon him) cartoons.
:w:
Reply

Fishman
11-09-2007, 08:06 PM
:sl:
On the other hand, it is also sad that people are defending this girl whilst at the same time critizing people who want to kick out Muslims and immigrants. Double standards work both ways people.
:w:
Reply

wilberhum
11-09-2007, 08:09 PM
Originally Posted by Fishman
:sl:
So, this is illegal hate speech whilst the Muhammad (peace be upon him) cartoons and the BNP are freedom of expression? Sounds like double standards. I am not saying that what the girl said was right, but that if they want to hold their position they should logically outlaw the far-right and also condemn the Muhammad (peace be upon him) cartoons.
:w:
Dubble Standards? Na, they have little in common.

If what she did was make fun of people she had no respect for, it would be dubble standards.

Saying you want to chop my head off is different than saying my mom is fat.
Reply

Fishman
11-09-2007, 08:24 PM
Originally Posted by wilberhum
Dubble Standards? Na, they have little in common.

If what she did was make fun of people she had no respect for, it would be dubble standards.

Saying you want to chop my head off is different than saying my mom is fat.
:sl:
Michael Savage said that people should kill 100 million Muslims, but I don't see him in jail. Far right leaders always talk about peresecuting Muslims in their manifestoes, but they aren't behind bars. And I remember a while back some people on YouTube made a speech about murdering Muslims, but I bet they are not in prison under terror laws...
:w:
Reply

Jayda
11-09-2007, 08:44 PM
Originally Posted by wilberhum
Dubble Standards? Na, they have little in common.

If what she did was make fun of people she had no respect for, it would be dubble standards.

Saying you want to chop my head off is different than saying my mom is fat.

hola wilberhum,

i think maybe you are not taking into consideration the cultural differences... while in our culture insults against a persons' religious deities or parents can be shrugged off as an attempt to provoke us, while a death threat is a crime and something to be taken seriously, for their culture they would much sooner have their persons' threatened than for somebody to commit (in their traditions) the crime of blasphemy.

this might sound fascist but i do not think there should be a freedom of speech.... people speak carelessly and insultingly toward each other and it only promotes hostility, some things should not be said. but i do not like politics very much, the rules of politeness make far more sense to me than the rules of politics...

que Dios te bendiga
Reply

wilberhum
11-09-2007, 08:48 PM
Originally Posted by Fishman
:sl:
Michael Savage said that people should kill 100 million Muslims, but I don't see him in jail. Far right leaders always talk about peresecuting Muslims in their manifestoes, but they aren't behind bars. And I remember a while back some people on YouTube made a speech about murdering Muslims, but I bet they are not in prison under terror laws...
:w:
Are you implying that Western justice is not perfect? :raging::raging:

Of coures it is. Ya, Right! :skeleton: (Just playing with you)

There never has and there never will be perfect justice under any system.

Does that mean we should stop all inforcement?

I think not.
Reply

Fishman
11-09-2007, 08:52 PM
Originally Posted by Jayda
this might sound fascist but i do not think there should be a freedom of speech.... people speak carelessly and insultingly toward each other and it only promotes hostility, some things should not be said. but i do not like politics very much, the rules of politeness make far more sense to me than the rules of politics...

que Dios te bendiga
:sl:
I agree that there should be some limits on free speech when it comes to racism, verbal assault etc. I don't think it should be got rid of completely, otherwise leaders would just misuse their newfound power to stop anybody critising them.
I don't think laws of politeness would really work, people should try to proliferate and spread politeness instead. What is the point of being nice if you do not intend to but are forced to by the law?
:w:
Reply

Fishman
11-09-2007, 08:54 PM
Originally Posted by wilberhum
Does that mean we should stop all inforcement?

I think not.
:sl:
No, but it does mean people should try to do something about it. If the girl goes to prison, so do racists. If racists are merely exercising free speech, so is the girl...
:w:
Reply

wilberhum
11-09-2007, 08:55 PM
Originally Posted by Jayda
hola wilberhum,

i think maybe you are not taking into consideration the cultural differences... while in our culture insults against a persons' religious deities or parents can be shrugged off as an attempt to provoke us, while a death threat is a crime and something to be taken seriously, for their culture they would much sooner have their persons' threatened than for somebody to commit (in their traditions) the crime of blasphemy.

this might sound fascist but i do not think there should be a freedom of speech.... people speak carelessly and insultingly toward each other and it only promotes hostility, some things should not be said. but i do not like politics very much, the rules of politeness make far more sense to me than the rules of politics...

que Dios te bendiga
If you don't think there should be freedom of speech, why are voicing an opinion? :-\

Or are you one of those that think we should only have the freedom to speak in support of what you think? :skeleton:

As far as taking in "cultural differences", I agree.
If some can't cope with the cultural differences, they should leave. :enough!:
Reply

wilberhum
11-09-2007, 08:58 PM
Originally Posted by Fishman
:sl:
No, but it does mean people should try to do something about it. If the girl goes to prison, so do racists. If racists are merely exercising free speech, so is the girl...
:w:
Got to go with you on that one. :thumbs_up

I think anyone that wants to harm someone based on race, should go to prison.
Reply

Fishman
11-09-2007, 09:02 PM
Originally Posted by wilberhum
Got to go with you on that one. :thumbs_up

I think anyone that wants to harm someone based on race, should go to prison.
:sl:
Then we are agreed! This is possibly one of the few times when debating has come to a conclusion. I shall have to 'celebrate':
:beard::bravo::muslimah::Mosque::offtopic:
Reply

wilberhum
11-09-2007, 09:06 PM
Originally Posted by Fishman
:sl:
Then we are agreed! This is possibly one of the few times when debating has come to a conclusion. I shall have to 'celebrate':
:beard::bravo::muslimah::Mosque::offtopic:
We always agreed.

We just hadn't agreed on what we agreed on. :D
Reply

Jayda
11-09-2007, 09:19 PM
Originally Posted by wilberhum
If you don't think there should be freedom of speech, why are voicing an opinion? :-\

Or are you one of those that think we should only have the freedom to speak in support of what you think? :skeleton:

As far as taking in "cultural differences", I agree.
If some can't cope with the cultural differences, they should leave. :enough!:
lol well... because i have an opinion and thought i would share it...

i do not think people should be allowed to say blasphemous things, especially against Christianity, or say racist or hateful things. if you forbid these things it's not really 'freedom of speech' anymore. i think people should have a degree of freedom in speech... but not the right to say whatever they want whenever they want to.
Reply

wilberhum
11-09-2007, 09:33 PM
Originally Posted by Jayda
lol well... because i have an opinion and thought i would share it...

i do not think people should be allowed to say blasphemous things, especially against Christianity, or say racist or hateful things. if you forbid these things it's not really 'freedom of speech' anymore. i think people should have a degree of freedom in speech... but not the right to say whatever they want whenever they want to.
Well I'm glad you shared your openion. That is one of the great things that come with freedom of speach.

But if 5 guys get together, claim Bush is there Prophet, you think it should become illegal to say negative anything about Bush? :skeleton:

Not what I think is a good idea.

especially against Christianity Why? Because they held the Inquision?
Reply

Jayda
11-09-2007, 09:33 PM
Originally Posted by Fishman
:sl:
I agree that there should be some limits on free speech when it comes to racism, verbal assault etc. I don't think it should be got rid of completely, otherwise leaders would just misuse their newfound power to stop anybody critising them.
I don't think laws of politeness would really work, people should try to proliferate and spread politeness instead. What is the point of being nice if you do not intend to but are forced to by the law?
:w:
hola

i think there are lots of things other than racism and verbal assault... blasphemy, slander, promoting violence like this 'poet' has done and things like this should all be banned. but then it would not be freedom of speech... which is okay for me.

lol i didn't mean that there should be politeness laws, just that i hate politics, i think more in terms of what politeness and etiquette dictate rather than what politics require. i don't like the pessimism and underhandedness of politics... i'm not advocating anything, just talking about what interests me :)

que Dios te bendiga
Reply

Jayda
11-09-2007, 09:36 PM
Originally Posted by wilberhum
Well I'm glad you shared your openion. That is one of the great things that come with freedom of speach.

But if 5 guys get together, claim Bush is there Prophet, you think it should become illegal to say negative anything about Bush? :skeleton:

Not what I think is a good idea.
slippery slopes work both ways... if the chairman of the fed decided to do a little ad libing just for fun during his next press conference and prophesy a 'hopeless future' and recommend everybody prepare for financial ruin do you think nothing should be done to prevent him from saying this?

i do not think that is a good idea...
Reply

wilberhum
11-09-2007, 09:39 PM
Originally Posted by Jayda
slippery slopes work both ways... if the chairman of the fed decided to do a little ad libing just for fun during his next press conference and prophesy a 'hopeless future' and recommend everybody prepare for financial ruin do you think nothing should be done to prevent him from saying this?

i do not think that is a good idea...
The future is hopeless. So I think the honesty would be good.
Reply

Jayda
11-09-2007, 09:42 PM
Originally Posted by wilberhum
The future is hopeless. So I think the honesty would be good.
:)

i just think it is better to always do the right thing regardless of the consequences
Reply

wilberhum
11-09-2007, 09:55 PM
Originally Posted by Jayda
:)

i just think it is better to always do the right thing regardless of the consequences
So how do you define the “Right Thing”? :-\

Six men in a five man life boat. What is the “Right Thing”? :skeleton:

No matter what you pick, it is your personal opinion of what is the "Right Thing” and there will be many that will disagree with you. :raging:

That's a major problem. You can't define things in undefined terms. :hiding::hiding:
Reply

Jayda
11-09-2007, 10:07 PM
Originally Posted by wilberhum
So how do you define the “Right Thing”? :-\

Six men in a five man life boat. What is the “Right Thing”? :skeleton:

No matter what you pick, it is your personal opinion of what is the "Right Thing” and there will be many that will disagree with you. :raging:

That's a major problem. You can't define things in undefined terms. :hiding::hiding:
you are agnostic... so perhaps for you the world is a big ocean and you do not hold a compass, i do not know...

but i believe in catholicism so the right thing is quite defined for me... disagreement from other people is natural but doesn't really make a difference for me :)
Reply

Amadeus85
11-09-2007, 10:14 PM
Originally Posted by aamirsaab
:sl:
Double-standards, anyone?
So now think , what if -

An european guy calling himself a Crusader, would make a poems calling to violence against muslims, poems about beheadings muslims and starting a crusade against muslims.

Would it be ok for you? ^o)
Reply

wilberhum
11-09-2007, 10:15 PM
Originally Posted by Jayda
you are agnostic... so perhaps for you the world is a big ocean and you do not hold a compass. i believe in catholicism so the right thing is very clear for me... disagreement from other people is natural but doesn't really make a difference for me :)
I'm an agnostic that is correct.
But I was Catholic twice as long as you.

The right thing might be clear to you but that helps no one in trying to define what the "Right Thing" is.

If we take your approach we could eliminate the entire law book and simplify the legal system.

We would have one and only one law; do the "Right Thing". :D
Reply

Amadeus85
11-09-2007, 10:16 PM
Originally Posted by maryam11
the west think islam is a violent religion becuase they are hungry for oil.

i've heard worse things, and people have kept silent.
peace...
the West thinks that islam may be a violent religion because of people like Lyrical Terrorist.
Reply

Jayda
11-09-2007, 10:21 PM
Originally Posted by wilberhum
I'm an agnostic that is correct.
But I was Catholic twice as long as you.

The right thing might be clear to you but that helps no one in trying to define what the "Right Thing" is.

If we take your approach we could eliminate the entire law book and simplify the legal system.

We would have one and only one law; do the "Right Thing". :D
lol but perhaps i am a Catholic twice as hard as you were. but yes, i agree, we would not need all of those laws and legal systems... as long as everybody did the right then i think things would be better :)
Reply

Fishman
11-09-2007, 10:22 PM
Originally Posted by Aaron85
the West thinks that islam may be a violent religion because of people like Lyrical Terrorist.
:sl:
And Lyrical Terrorist thinks that the west is evil because of people who think Islam is a violent religion. They both hate eachother because of eachother. You can't blame anybody in particular for starting the whole thing...
:w:
Reply

wilberhum
11-09-2007, 10:28 PM
Originally Posted by Jayda
lol but perhaps i am a Catholic twice as hard as you were. but yes, i agree, we would not need all of those laws and legal systems... as long as everybody did the right then i think things would be better :)
Silly circle. You might was well say "as long as everybody did" do-da-de-du. :-\

If you don't define it in understandable universal terms, you have nothing but an empty statement.
Reply

aamirsaab
11-09-2007, 10:33 PM
Originally Posted by Aaron85
So now think , what if -

An european guy calling himself a Crusader, would make a poems calling to violence against muslims, poems about beheadings muslims and starting a crusade against muslims.

Would it be ok for you? ^o)
Yes because that is what freedom of expression (you know, that thing everyone seems to be ragging on about) is all about. If, however, they started shooting at muslims for example, then I would have a problem with it just as if the lyical terrorist were to start getting violent. Speaking of which, the lyrical terrorist did not start a crusade - if she did, then that is clearly an arrestable offence and I wouldn't have said double standards.

I can name 2 sites of the top of my head that call for the extinction of Islam - is anyone arresting them on anti-terror laws? One site even has a video of some jack-ass shooting several Qurans. Please tell me you can see the blatant double-standards.

Oh wait, I forgot. I'm muslim therefore whenever I speak I must be complaining. Oh wait, when I don't complain I'm told off for not condemning.

I could go on and on, but the fact is there's a lot of BS going around and it seems a very small minority are the only one's who fully comprehend it.
Reply

Jayda
11-09-2007, 10:34 PM
Originally Posted by wilberhum
Silly circle. You might was well say "as long as everybody did" do-da-de-du. :-\

If you don't define it in understandable universal terms, you have nothing but an empty statement.
hola

there is no reason to get upset... i just have a different opinion than you, that's all

que Dios te bendiga
Reply

Amadeus85
11-09-2007, 10:37 PM
Originally Posted by aamirsaab
Yes because that is what freedom of expression (you know, that thing everyone seems to be ragging on about) is all about. If, however, they started shooting at muslims for example, then I would have a problem with it just as if the lyical terrorist were to start getting violent. Speaking of which, the lyrical terrorist did not start a crusade - if she did, then that is clearly an arrestable offence and I wouldn't have said double standards.

I can name 2 sites of the top of my head that call for the extinction of Islam - is anyone arresting them on anti-terror laws? One site even has a video of some jack-ass shooting several Qurans. Please tell me you can see the blatant double-standards.

Oh wait, I forgot. I'm muslim therefore whenever I speak I must be complaining. Oh wait, when I don't complain I'm told off for not condemning.

I could go on and on, but the fact is there's a lot of BS going around and it seems a very small minority are the only one's who fully comprehend it.
In my opinion, both Lyrical terrorist and my Crusader should be sent to jail.In my opinion, freedom of speech has some limits, especially when someone calls to beheaings.To put it clear, i would also ban some hip hop and rock songs.Im just bit politlcly incorrect. :D
Reply

Fishman
11-09-2007, 10:43 PM
Originally Posted by Aaron85
In my opinion, both Lyrical terrorist and my Crusader should be sent to jail.In my opinion, freedom of speech has some limits, especially when someone calls to beheaings.
:sl:
Hey, I agree with you as well. Never would have thought it though, with us having opposite political views and all...
:)
:w:
Reply

wilberhum
11-09-2007, 10:48 PM
Originally Posted by Jayda
hola

there is no reason to get upset... i just have a different opinion than you, that's all

que Dios te bendiga
Upset? :skeleton: You have to be kidding. :-\

Because you won't define "Right Thing"? :giggling::giggling::giggling:

Want to see me upset, tell me what my rights as a Dhimmi are. :raging:
Reply

wilberhum
11-09-2007, 10:52 PM
:thumbs_up
Originally Posted by Fishman
:sl:
Hey, I agree with you as well. Never would have thought it though, with us having opposite political views and all...
:)
:w:
Fishman,
What is your deal? Why the amazement? :D

You are an intelligent open-minded individual with non radical points of view.

A whole lot more people will agree with you than not.
Reply

Malaikah
11-09-2007, 10:53 PM
Originally Posted by Iqram
Freedom of speech blah blah whatever, Islam does not allow 'To chop chop head of kuffar swine'. Any reason why we're being called heartless terrorists? Sure, freedom of speech us Muslims will say, I say what a load of rubbish! Islam does not support the killing of innocent people, nor is Islam a religion of 'terror'. It's people who've got a completely wrong idea of Islam as to allow 'chop chop chop' of heads. It's totally ridiculous. Jihad is something and terror is something else.
I must be missing something- but the article never said that she was directing those violent actions against innocent people. Who's to say she wasn't referring to those non-Muslims who are unjustly fighting and oppressing others and who deserve to be fought if they don't stop their evil ways?

But then I guess the fact she called herself a 'lyrical terrorist' is rather suspicious, unless it was a reaction to the way people call Muslims terrorists even when they aren't.

The poetry is being exploited it seems. The real issue here is the manuals about how to make bombs and poisoning and whatever. And even that is not proof that she intended to DO something.

Originally Posted by Aaron85
In my opinion, both Lyrical terrorist and my Crusader should be sent to jail.In my opinion, freedom of speech has some limits, especially when someone calls to beheaings.
In my opinion the poems should be read in full before we just assume that she meant it in a criminal way and against innocents.
Reply

aamirsaab
11-09-2007, 11:02 PM
Originally Posted by Aaron85
In my opinion, both Lyrical terrorist and my Crusader should be sent to jail.In my opinion, freedom of speech has some limits, especially when someone calls to beheaings.To put it clear, i would also ban some hip hop and rock songs.Im just bit politlcly incorrect. :D
See I have no problem with that view point. You understand that there are limits to freedoms and you are consistent with it.
Reply

wilberhum
11-09-2007, 11:07 PM
Malaikah
innocent people
If one takes the OBL defination, anyone who pays taxes is not innocent.
IMHO she did intend to do great harm. But then that is MHO.
Reply

Malaikah
11-09-2007, 11:13 PM
Originally Posted by wilberhum
innocent people
If one takes the OBL defination, anyone who pays taxes is not innocent.
IMHO she did intend to do great harm. But then that is MHO.
Yes, true that does complicate the situation a fair bit (i.e. the OBL thing).

I'm not going to pretend she is innocent, but I'm not going to assume her guilt either. The fact is- I don't know. But don't you think you going a bit to far by judging her based on a single artcile with out even hearing her defend herself? :?
Reply

wilberhum
11-09-2007, 11:18 PM
Originally Posted by Malaikah
Yes, true that does complicate the situation a fair bit (i.e. the OBL thing).

I'm not going to pretend he is innocent, but I'm not going to assume her guilt either. But don't you think you going a bit to far by judging her based on a single artcile with out even hearing her defend herself? :?
I will realy on the courts, they have all the facts and know the laws.

They are not perfect but they are surly better than us with maybe 5% of the facts.
Reply

KAding
11-10-2007, 04:14 AM
Originally Posted by Fishman
:sl:
So, this is illegal hate speech whilst the Muhammad (peace be upon him) cartoons and the BNP are freedom of expression? Sounds like double standards. I am not saying that what the girl said was right, but that if they want to hold their position they should logically outlaw the far-right and also condemn the Muhammad (peace be upon him) cartoons.
:w:
So you think dead serious poems about how wonderful it would be to slit a kafirs throat from someone who is clearly obsessed with death is comparable to a political cartoonist drawing Mohammed with a bomb-shaped turban?
Reply

barney
11-10-2007, 04:46 AM
All she has done is encourage murder.....is that really so much of a crime.

The Courts are acting like she's unstable or something. When has getting pleasure from watching journalists having their heads hacked off by a group of screaming fanatics become something other than a enjoyable pastime?
Reply

Jayda
11-10-2007, 05:35 AM
'lyrical terrorist' sounds like something a rapper might call themself...
Reply

Ummu Sufyaan
11-10-2007, 10:18 AM
Originally Posted by czgibson
Greetings,

Not for the first time, I've been surprised by how long it took for any Muslim poster here to condemn these sorts of actions. If I was a Muslim I would be horrified at the behaviour of this girl.

It's also interesting to note that we've had some quiet censorship of the thread; one post, indicating that a member here might have known the girl in question (or perhaps that we all did) has been silently removed.

What are we ashamed of, people?

Peace
hello.
im not aiming this at you, just thought it would be a good place to sate my comment.
maybe im looking into things too much. but i have noticed that when someone is locked up for things like this, muslims immeditaley try to explain, saying this is not the act of the muslim. dont get me wrong, im not justifying anything bad, etc and that maybe true, but at the same time it sometimes sounds as if we immeditaley make justification against them, and at the same time just betray them, and leave them in the dark "oh, thats not what a muslim does" etc.
they are still our brothers and sisters. yes, maybe a little more ignorant than us, but my point remain standing by them. i hope that makes sense.
Reply

Muezzin
11-10-2007, 11:39 AM
Originally Posted by barney
All she has done is encourage murder.....is that really so much of a crime.

The Courts are acting like she's unstable or something. When has getting pleasure from watching journalists having their heads hacked off by a group of screaming fanatics become something other than a enjoyable pastime?
We don't lock up rappers for violent lyrics.

We only lock 'em up when they kill people.

Same with this girl. The thing is not the poetry, the thing is the bomb-making material. It astounds me how easily people (continue to) miss this huge elephant of incriminating evidence.

Come on, people. Use your heads.
Reply

sarah85
11-10-2007, 05:26 PM
Originally Posted by wilberhum
I will realy on the courts, they have all the facts and know the laws.

They are not perfect but they are surly better than us with maybe 5% of the facts.
you are right we only have 5% of the facts because the other 95% are twisted by the media and sent out. That can be seen with the obvious misinterpretation and propaganda surrounding the word 'Jihad', 'Mujahadeen', 'Martyr' etc.

Its obvious the government is trying to create a climate of fear.
Reply

Idris
11-10-2007, 06:04 PM
Don't rapper's something sing about killing gays?

Don't see them locked up....
Reply

snakelegs
11-10-2007, 07:22 PM
Originally Posted by Muezzin

Same with this girl. The thing is not the poetry, the thing is the bomb-making material. It astounds me how easily people (continue to) miss this huge elephant of incriminating evidence.

Come on, people. Use your heads.
yes, i've found this quite amazing also!
Reply

Ummu Sufyaan
11-11-2007, 07:01 AM
Originally Posted by Jayda
hola...

you two cannot possibly mean these things you are saying about liking her lyrics or believing this is peity... i do not know if any of this is a crime but it is terrifying to me that there are people like this girl who hates us that much and thinks about these horrible things. the word kaffir instantly frightens me for that reason

que Dios te bendiga
hello.
whether her actions are right or wrong, im not sure if you can really blame her for what she feels. what is a muslim supposed to feel seeing their brothers and sisters being opposed, and thats putting it nicely.
Reply

Pygoscelis
11-11-2007, 10:51 AM
Originally Posted by Idris
Don't rapper's something sing about killing gays?

Don't see them locked up....
Rappers sing about killing gays?

This is news to me.

But then it is also news to me that rappers sing at all. :D
Reply

MuslimWays
11-11-2007, 12:40 PM
Where is the freedom of speech now?

Actually is there any freedom of speech for Muslims?
Reply

wilberhum
11-11-2007, 08:43 PM
Originally Posted by MuslimWays
Where is the freedom of speech now?

Actually is there any freedom of speech for Muslims?
I don't understand your questions.
Would you elaborate?
Reply

Umar001
11-11-2007, 08:51 PM
Oh My God, people please read, Muezzin said that its more about the how to build a bomb manuals.

I mean lets be honest we live in a time where Muslims should know the sensitivities of others, understandable sensitivities, I would never have a how to make a bomb manual anywhere near me, one because I dont want to make a bomb and two because it would cause people to think that am a terrorist.

Its common sense.

Disclaimer: I dont know if the sister had any manuals and I dont mean to refer to her in the post above, I dont know her and I dont think its right for me to talk of her. I hope she is a good muslims
Reply

snakelegs
11-11-2007, 08:56 PM
Originally Posted by Al Habeshi
Oh My God, people please read, Muezzin said that its more about the how to build a bomb manuals.
i think this thread is a riot - how people go right on ignoring this little detail!
incredible! ;D
Reply

Keltoi
11-11-2007, 11:16 PM
Anyway...its just wrong to detain somebody for writing offensive lyrics.

Sorry, couldn't resist. :)
Reply

MTAFFI
11-12-2007, 04:02 AM
I read a bit of this thread and a couple things came to mind. One there is the usual "Oh the world is against us thing", this gets so old, listen if my neighbor thought I was a kuffar and was writing things like, "I like to see heads chopped off", etc., I would go and kill her myself, she blatantly said she supports al-qaeda in anyway possible, therefore she is an enemy, therefore she should either leave or die. She had bomb making material, she spoke of wishing to be on the front lines, etc., to me in light of recent events and given the obvious interest she has in terrorist activity these sort of things should be taken seriously. What are people supposed to do, wait until she blows herself up or takes someone elses life before we say "See, told ya so she was saying all along she was going to do it!". That is stupid, turn it into a "freedom of speech" case or a discrimination of Muslims case all you want but the bottom line is, in the time we are living in, where we live under a constant threat of terrorism, it isnt exactly something that someone should even so much as joke about unless they are looking for trouble. The girl is lucky she got off with such a light punishment, like I said, if I lived around someone who was actively involved in these activities I would probably try to kill them before they kill me.
Reply

snakelegs
11-12-2007, 08:19 AM
Originally Posted by MTAFFI
I read a bit of this thread and a couple things came to mind. One there is the usual "Oh the world is against us thing", this gets so old, listen if my neighbor thought I was a kuffar and was writing things like, "I like to see heads chopped off", etc., I would go and kill her myself, she blatantly said she supports al-qaeda in anyway possible, therefore she is an enemy, therefore she should either leave or die. She had bomb making material, she spoke of wishing to be on the front lines, etc., to me in light of recent events and given the obvious interest she has in terrorist activity these sort of things should be taken seriously. What are people supposed to do, wait until she blows herself up or takes someone elses life before we say "See, told ya so she was saying all along she was going to do it!". That is stupid, turn it into a "freedom of speech" case or a discrimination of Muslims case all you want but the bottom line is, in the time we are living in, where we live under a constant threat of terrorism, it isnt exactly something that someone should even so much as joke about unless they are looking for trouble. The girl is lucky she got off with such a light punishment, like I said, if I lived around someone who was actively involved in these activities I would probably try to kill them before they kill me.
;D:scared: you sound a bit terrifying in your own right - a believer in "pre-emptive strikes".
on a more serious note, it is interesting that on this thread, if i remember right - it was mostly the muslims here who pointed out that this is far more serious than mere poetry or freedom of speech issues - she had bomb making material!
Reply

------
11-12-2007, 12:05 PM
:salamext:

What I don't get, is why people can't understand that She might be interested in it, not planning on how to make it!
Reply

IbnAbdulHakim
11-12-2007, 12:20 PM
Edit
Reply

aamirsaab
11-12-2007, 12:22 PM
Originally Posted by Muj4h1d4
:salamext:

What I don't get, is why people can't understand that She might be interested in it, not planning on how to make it!
:sl:
I see where you are coming from but since she has already expressed positive interest with regards to terrorist activities it is understandably a huge concern - this added to her reading into the weaponary info is really the main reason she was convicted (at least I hope it was since the papers seemed to make it out like it was her poetry alone that got her the court order!).

p.s; my original argument with regards to free speech was relating to her poetry, which clearly is contained within the boundaries of freedom of speech. I readily condemn her however for having what seems to be some sort of obsession over the weapons just as I would condemn anyone else regardless of religion or gender.

This is what I was trying to get at originally.
Reply

Muezzin
11-12-2007, 12:22 PM
Originally Posted by Muj4h1d4
:salamext:

What I don't get, is why people can't understand that She might be interested in it, not planning on how to make it!
She wasn't just getting general information from, like, the Encyclopedia Britannica - she possessed specific 'how to' books on bomb-making and sniping.

As for killing someone because they write violent poems? Paranoiac. As well as illegal. By that logic, just about every big name rap artist right now would be a victim of vigilante justice.

Though I suppose it is kind of funny how everybody is still obsessessed with the ruddy poems. It might have to do with the fact that the thread title focuses on them, and the article itself dedicates more space to them than the bomb-making literature and sniping manual (to which it apportions a humble sentence).

But the media can do no wrong. Anyone who says otherwise is wearing a tinfoil hat. Obviously. And that's not a strawman argument, because if I say it, it's true, and if you say otherwise, you're dumb!

Danger, Will Robinson! Sarcasm!
Reply

IbnAbdulHakim
11-12-2007, 12:24 PM
^ yep, you've both described the effects of islamaphobia, thats exactly the reason she got arrested and the rappers didnt

assalamu alaikum
Reply

Muezzin
11-12-2007, 12:32 PM
Originally Posted by IbnAbdulHakim
^ yep, you've both described the effects of islamaphobia, thats exactly the reason she got arrested and the rappers didnt

assalamu alaikum
You're missing the point. I probably didn't make it clear enough in my crazy ranting.

You should not be arrested for writing an offensive poem or lyrics, or drawing an offensive cartoon. You're not really posing a threat to the public just through those expressions. Maybe you're a bit loony or something, maybe mentally unstable, maybe people should keep on eye on you or maybe you're just a nasty piece of genetic material, but to arrest you for that work, in an of itself? Crazy talk!

But you would pose a threat to the public if, in light of the above, you also have manuals about making bombs and sniping.

The hand to hand combat book I would let slide on its own, since you could argue that's for self defence. But in conjunction with the very much offensive means for making bombs and sniping techniques, it all becomes so much more dangerous.

Crazy, violent poems on their own? Certainly disturbing, certainly should be spoken out against, possibly illegal if targeted at a specific group and disseminated amongst the public.

'How to Build a Bomb' and 'How to Snipe' in addition to the above poems? Makes the person possessing such material look like a whacko, regardless of whether or not they are actually nuts.

See what I'm saying?
Reply

IbnAbdulHakim
11-12-2007, 12:48 PM
^ yep, agreed :thumbs_up

assalamu alaikum wa rahmatullah
Reply

czgibson
11-12-2007, 01:33 PM
Greetings,

I'm a bit late replying to this one, but here goes:

Originally Posted by sarah85
You say you are horrified at her behaviour. What is her behaviour? writing lyrics?
And possessing instructions in bomb making. And hate literature. And praising Al-Qaeda. And looking for all the world like she'd like nothing better than to blow up a few kaffirs.

If you think it's acceptable for a Muslim to behave in this way, and you're happy to defend her in a public forum, I'm genuinely shocked.
Right across the UK hundreds of thousands of poems are written or have been written about the IRA- no one was arrested for them. Shouldnt u b horrified at that?
Any behaviour, written or otherwise, that glorifies, promotes and threatens violence is horrifying to me.

Thousands of poems and articles and books glorying wars that kill and are killing hundreds of blacks and Asians are written- again no one bats an eyelid- shouldnt u b horrified at that?
Where? I haven't seen any of these writings, but they obviously don't sound pleasant. Do you assume that I wouldn't condemn them if I knew about them?

The Zionists in press article after press article demand war on Iran that will kill a million more people then any terrorist attack- not a single arrest. isn't that something to b horrified about?
I'm sure it is, although, as usual, I'd question your blame of the Zionists. There are a lot of different shades of idiot talking about war with Iran.

You seem to be making all sorts of assumptions about what I believe or don't believe. Why?

She had some questionable material
Is that what you'd call it?

but her poems and writing hardly pose a threat to the nation.
A court ruled (by a majority of ten to one, we are told) that she did, and I agree with them. Do you not have even a smidgeon of condemnation for her, or would you let her off the hook completely? Can't you see that people like her do far more damage to the reputation of Islam than works of literature like 'The Satanic Verses' (which I bet you haven't even read) or tasteless cartoons from Denmark?

The government is trying to create a climate of fear and the neo cons like Policy Exchange are joining in hence the Satanic Verses and the blasphemous cartoons are ok because they represent free speech but Muslim literature is not ok. Complete hypocrisy.
Muslim literature is fine, as long as it doesn't directly glorify, promote or threaten violence. If a non-Muslim were to write out plans for attacking Muslims, that would be equally objectionable.

Peace
Reply

MTAFFI
11-12-2007, 02:56 PM
Originally Posted by snakelegs
;D:scared: you sound a bit terrifying in your own right - a believer in "pre-emptive strikes".
LOL I apologize, I am not sure why it bothered me so much, I am really not such a terrifying person.. (nothing wrong with a pre-emptive strike as long as the strike is based on solid fact :) OR what could be a definite threat to my survival)
Originally Posted by snakelegs
on a more serious note, it is interesting that on this thread, if i remember right - it was mostly the muslims here who pointed out that this is far more serious than mere poetry or freedom of speech issues - she had bomb making material!
I would agree with that and add that there are intelligent people and others whose bulbs may not be so bright. The usual sound minded individuals have sounded off and pointed out the information that is important and the others have tried to make their case on discrimination, media hype, islamophobia and comparisons of someone like this to rappers, it just gets old. Lets not pass the blame or try to compare it to something else that is wrong, what she did was wrong, accept acknowledge and move on
Reply

czgibson
11-12-2007, 03:42 PM
Greetings,
Originally Posted by Iqram
Yeah, but I see it as double standards when some high ranking BNP member had firearms and gunpowder stashed away in his attic can get away with it and someone with a switch in his toolbox is taken in for 3 months on the suspicion of 'He could have used to it make a bomb'. In that case, I think every house in Britain is a threat. Good Lord no.
That does sound unfair. Have you any more details about this BNP case?

Peace
Reply

Isambard
11-12-2007, 03:59 PM
As pointed out, The reason I believe she was taken in, is not only about she talking about killing ppl, its cause shes talking about killing ppl AND LEARNING about how to do with thru manuels.

Trying a Muhammed cartoon is not comparable unless the cartoon says how glorious it is to kill muslims and I went into detail on how to go about it.

Think of it like this.

If I write poems about my neighbour, thats creepy but fine. If I write poems about my neighbour and have a list of the time shes at home/sleeping/favroite hang outs, thats considered stalking and Ill be locked up.

Please stop referrring to strawmen arguements.
Reply

MTAFFI
11-12-2007, 04:00 PM
Originally Posted by Iqram
Yeah, but I see it as double standards when some high ranking BNP member had firearms and gunpowder stashed away in his attic can get away with it and someone with a switch in his toolbox is taken in for 3 months on the suspicion of 'He could have used to it make a bomb'. In that case, I think every house in Britain is a threat. Good Lord no.
I would agree and disagree, I do not dispute that Muslims are at a bit of a disadvantage when it comes to being targeted for crimes right now, in fact I would say it is safe to say that there are Muslims around the world who have been under the watchful eye of the law, even if they never had a thought of causing any trouble. With that said it must also be understood that because of the recent events this was bound to happen. The terrorists attacks have all been by so called Muslims, who claim to be waging "jihad" against the west and who use their religion as an excuse. The BNP member, appears to be a raving madman, but in some articles it says he wanted it for his protection, and this his wife overheard him saying things, which is hearsay and cant really be used, that said these guys are probably better off locked up than out on the street. I am not sure about the guy with the switch, but I am sure the police didnt raid his house or whatever they did because they heard he had a switch, I would guess there was some sort of report that was disturbing from someone and police were following a lead and just ran across the switch.

If you think about it, before 9/11 Muslims in western countries were just another person on the street, not a lot of people really even knew much about Palestine or the wars and anger that had been building in the mid east for such a long time. The second that a group used their religion to distinguish themselves, they made everyone else a part of that group and thus made everyone a black sheep to be scrutinized and demonized by the general public, because really what else is there to go on? There is no physical distinction, it is only mental and I dont think anyone can read minds so how is anyone to know? It is human nature to judge and with people like this girl out there it only makes it worse, because it simply proves that you just never know.

I think the only way that Muslims will not be on the constant watchlist is for true muslims to somehow distinguish themselves in a visible way to the public, and I am not saying that Muslim communities arent trying, I am saying that they are not always visible to the public. The Lord only knows how that may happen... it is a sad cruel world.
Reply

czgibson
11-12-2007, 04:49 PM
Greetings,

Thanks for all that info, Iqram. It certainly does look very unfair, in the light of other prosecutions for similar offences.

It does seem from the reports that what may have swung the jury is the 'self-protection' defence. Aside from one or two bits of hearsay about the proposed targets, there is little, on the face of it, to suggest an potential offensive attack. That's obviously different from someone who has written about how they want to cut off people's heads and so on. However, these BNP people are clearly dangerous and I worry about the fact that they're free to roam the streets.

However, I don't know all the facts in the case, so I could be wrong about this - I'm just suggesting why the jury might have made the decision they did. It's quite possible that they did have plans to kill, say, black people or Muslims, or whoever, and that this was unreported.

I disagree with the jury's decision (based only on what I've read in those reports), and I think you've brought up a very good point - there does seem to be a clear double standard here.

Peace
Reply

Abu Musab
11-12-2007, 06:11 PM
this thread deserves to be binned :rolleyes:
Reply

MTAFFI
11-13-2007, 12:42 AM
Originally Posted by Iqram
Right, so called muslims! Couldn't have said it better myself. I know nobody likes these conspiracies, but think about it, they went on two wars because of this. One thing lead to another?
When I say so called muslims, I am talking about those who claim to be doing something in the name of a religion that blatantly forbids exactly what they are doing. They may claim to be muslim but they are no better than the ones they hate, personally I would prefer to use the term "arab" as a way to label the terrorist rather than Muslim, since to a Muslim the crimes being committed are against their religion and to many Arabs these acts are simply a way of life.

Originally Posted by Iqram
And no they didn't raid his house because of the switch, they raided his house and they found the switch and made a big deal.
Honestly I dont know any of the facts and I am not sure what story you are talking about, if you would like to post the article then I will comment on it further with whatever limited amount of knowledge I can gain from it

Originally Posted by Iqram
Was being rather immature, yes.
The girl or the post? The girl went past immature with the books, material and language, she made herself a threat all on her own and should have known better. The post was just meant to put it very straight forward and to the point.


Originally Posted by Iqram
Yes, and I've had enough of it all. No don't worry, I'm not going to ...

As far as the BNP is concerned...Another Nazi Party in the making?
Not going to? To distinguish yourself or do something against the cruel world? I hope you do choose to distinguish yourself, as far as the other is concerned it will only last for a period of time and then it will be over, there is always someone or some group being labeled or attacked, just do the best you can to be a good person and eventually it will fall back into place

As far as the BNP is concerned, i cant say I follow british politics to much or their far right groups or movements, however if they are all like this guy and his accomplice, I would say a Nazi party would be the least of worries.
Reply

nevesirth
11-13-2007, 12:55 AM
lets Also Convict Anybody Who Supports George Bush, The Mass Murderer.
Reply

nevesirth
11-13-2007, 01:00 AM
deleted
Reply

nevesirth
11-13-2007, 01:03 AM
deleted
Reply

------
11-13-2007, 12:43 PM
:salamext:

I understand brother, but there's a way to stand up for oneself lol :D
Reply

Cognescenti
11-13-2007, 03:47 PM
Originally Posted by nevesirth
lets Also Convict Anybody Who Supports George Bush, The Mass Murderer.
Clever addition to the discussion.
Reply

Cognescenti
11-13-2007, 03:53 PM
Originally Posted by Muj4h1d4
:salamext:

What I don't get, is why people can't understand that She might be interested in it, not planning on how to make it!
Look. Let's say I am an airplane enthusiast and I build myself a working model of a Me-110, but I am only interested in the plane from esthetic point of view so I don't install machine guns or bomb racks. Now, let's further imagine it is 1940, and I decide to take it up for a spin over London............
Reply

Cognescenti
11-13-2007, 04:08 PM
Originally Posted by Iqram

Yeah, but I see it as double standards when some high ranking BNP member had firearms and gunpowder stashed away in his attic can get away with it and someone with a switch in his toolbox is taken in for 3 months on the suspicion of 'He could have used to it make a bomb'. In that case, I think every house in Britain is a threat. Good Lord no.
I don't think the BNP thing was covered up. I heard about it in the US. Didn't you just post info that the pair were tried by authorities but the jury was unable to convict? It seems to me you can't blame the authorities for applying a double standard in this case. You may have an argument that the jurors were discinclined to convict based on biases.

The law permitting detention on suspicion alone is amazingly broad and is certainly open to abuse. I can agree with you on that. Clearly, if one falls within a group "of interest" in the UK, one would be advised to keep a low profile.
Reply

cihad
11-13-2007, 04:37 PM
All of this brings to mind the hymns sung at my school assemblies:

onward Christian soldiers marching as to war...
with the cross of jesus going on before...

hmmmmmmmmmmm?
Reply

AhlaamBella
11-13-2007, 04:58 PM
I read this story in the Metro on the bus :p
I admit it looks bad. but I think (if its true of course) calling herself the 'Lyrical terrorist' is just asking for trouble.
Reply

Cognescenti
11-13-2007, 06:09 PM
Originally Posted by cihad
All of this brings to mind the hymns sung at my school assemblies:

onward Christian soldiers marching as to war...
with the cross of jesus going on before...

hmmmmmmmmmmm?
Not bad..not bad, but clearly a stretch. It is a similie. You see...they aren't really soldiers and they aren't really going to war. :sunny:


Of course, "chop, chop the head of the kuffar swine" could be metaphorical :?
Reply

wilberhum
11-13-2007, 09:35 PM
Originally Posted by cihad
All of this brings to mind the hymns sung at my school assemblies:

onward Christian soldiers marching as to war...
with the cross of jesus going on before...

hmmmmmmmmmmm?
A Muslim singing "onward Christian soldiers". Interesting.

So you know it is about triumph over Satan and he11, not your fellow man.
Reply

barney
11-14-2007, 06:57 AM
Originally Posted by cihad
All of this brings to mind the hymns sung at my school assemblies:

onward Christian soldiers marching as to war...
with the cross of jesus going on before...

hmmmmmmmmmmm?
Noo, noo, you see its all been misinterpreted! Christianity is a peaceful religion! It's meant to be a War on sin within ones own soul!

Gotta love it when the tables get turned! :D:D
Reply

snakelegs
11-14-2007, 07:04 AM
Originally Posted by wilberhum
A Muslim singing "onward Christian soldiers". Interesting.

So you know it is about triumph over Satan and he11, not your fellow man.

i never sang it, but believe it or not, i never knew this either! the things you learn at LI!! :D
Reply

AhlaamBella
11-14-2007, 09:14 AM
Originally Posted by barney
Noo, noo, you see its all been misinterpreted! Christianity is a peaceful religion! It's meant to be a War on sin within ones own soul!

Gotta love it when the tables get turned! :D:D
Funny... I'm reminded of Jihad of the soul... which non-muslims see as blowing people up :hmm:
Reply

IbnAbdulHakim
11-14-2007, 10:23 AM
O ye who believe! if any from among you turn back from his Faith, soon will Allah produce a people whom He will love as they will love Him,- lowly with the believers, mighty against the rejecters, fighting in the way of Allah, and never afraid of the reproaches of such as find fault. That is the grace of Allah, which He will bestow on whom He pleaseth. And Allah encompasseth all, and He knoweth all things.

[Surah Al Maida Verse 54]
Reply

Cognescenti
11-14-2007, 02:03 PM
Originally Posted by DeepOcean
Funny... I'm reminded of Jihad of the soul... which non-muslims see as blowing people up :hmm:
I think most non-Muslims who are paying attention realize that jihad has a broader meaning.

Of course, given that most had never heard the word 10 years ago, you might want to ask yourself why the more narrow meaning is more widely known.

If your answer is the Zionist Media I will pinch your head off (not literally, of course, I mean it in the broader, friendlier sense :happy:)
Reply

Muezzin
11-14-2007, 08:39 PM
Okay... This thread seems to have gone on quite long enough. Everybody's had their say. It's now getting even wackier.

Thread closed.
Reply

Hey there! Looks like you're enjoying the discussion, but you're not signed up for an account.

When you create an account, you can participate in the discussions and share your thoughts. You also get notifications, here and via email, whenever new posts are made. And you can like posts and make new friends.
Sign Up

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 13
    Last Post: 08-20-2016, 01:59 AM
  2. Replies: 25
    Last Post: 05-03-2013, 06:57 PM
  3. Replies: 48
    Last Post: 02-25-2013, 02:11 PM
  4. Replies: 2
    Last Post: 06-18-2008, 11:32 AM
  5. Replies: 6
    Last Post: 01-11-2008, 05:04 PM

IslamicBoard

Experience a richer experience on our mobile app!