News from Afghanistan

[ahsan28]

Nine troops dead in Afghan ambush

Six US soldiers and three Afghan troops have been killed in fighting in eastern Afghanistan, Nato officials have said. Militants ambushed a patrol of Afghan soldiers and US troops from Nato's International Security Assistance Force (Isaf) in Nuristan province.

The ambush is one of the costliest for US forces this year, already the deadliest for the US since it helped overthrow the Taleban in 2001.

Eight US troops and 11 Afghans were also wounded, Isaf officials said.

The latest casualties bring US fatalities this year in Afghanistan to 101.
Fighting between militants and international forces has intensified in the past two years as the Taleban have mounted a resurgence.

There are currently more than 50,000 foreign soldiers in Afghanistan. About 40,000 are under the command of Isaf, the rest form a coalition under US direction.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/7088366.stm

[ahsan28]

In Afghanistan, a Do-Over Battle

Saturday, Dec. 08, 2007

The spectacle of fierce fighting around a dusty Afghan town, with well-armed Western troops, backed by helicopters and Afghan allies, bearing down on hundreds of dug-in Taliban fighters, would seem to date from late 2001. The fact that it's unfolding this weekend at Musa Qala in southeastern Afghanistan — a reminder of how difficult the war is proving for the the U.S. and its allies.

The problem for NATO, however, is that Musa Qala may be a very visible Taliban position, but it's only one of hundreds — by some estimates, today, there is a permanent Taliban presence in more than half of Afghanistan, and NATO — struggling to expand its troop strength from reluctant European nations.

With the harsh winter coming, Musa Qala may be one of the last major engagements of the current fighting season. But next spring's thaw is expected to bring the war in Afghanistan quickly back to the boil.


http://www.time.com/time/world/artic...692900,00.html

[Keltoi]

I notice the articles you posted like to point out how "difficult" Afghanistan is by pointing out that 9 soldiers died in November. The "worst" since 2001....put that into perspective please...surely I don't have to spell that one out.

[snakelegs]

how long do you think it will be before people finally admit that we are not winning in afghanistan or beating the talibaan?
(btw, i have no idea what "winning" would consist of anyway)

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[Keltoi]

how long do you think it will be before people finally admit that we are not winning in afghanistan or beating the talibaan?
(btw, i have no idea what "winning" would consist of anyway)

How we "win" in Afghanistan involves how stable and effective the Afghan government will be. We can keep killing the Taliban when they pop their heads up, but the true victory will have to be achieved by the Afghans themselves.

[wilberhum]

I always get a kick out of the many of you who yell "Kefir Press", all they do is lie. They only want to make Islam/Muslims look bad.

But as soon as they report something you like, they suddenly become reliable.

Interesting.

[Keltoi]

It will always be.."Next spring will be bad"..year after year.

[al-muslimah]

Alhamdulillah for this wonderful news. May allah make them perish in Afghanistan.The mujahideen are getting stronger.:thumbs_up

[Keltoi]

Aww..the "representative of Islam" has returned.....:)

[al-muslimah]

Aww..the "representative of Islam" has returned.....:)

Yeah keltoi did u miss me?:statisfie

[Woodrow]

Just a gentle reminder to one and all.

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[MTAFFI]

Afghan, int'l troops enter Taliban town
By DANICA KIRKA, Associated Press Writer 36 minutes ago


KABUL, Afghanistan - Hundreds of Taliban fighters fled in trucks and motorbikes Monday as Afghan and international troops fought their way into the only important town controlled by the hard-line Islamic movement.


Afghan officers reported some militants, possibly al-Qaida, were still resisting in the center of Musa Qala, and said the attacking force controlled the southern town but was moving slowly toward the center because streets were boobytrapped with improvised bombs.

A Taliban spokesman confirmed the insurgents retreated from Musa Qala, which the militants had held since February, and Afghanistan's president said the successful attack was aided by some local Taliban leaders switching allegiance to his government.

Visiting British Prime Minister Gordon Brown predicted developments in Musa Qala would have positive long-term results, and the success boosted hopes the Afghan government can expand into a key opium producing area where it now wields little influence.

But Musa Qala has bounced back and forth between government and Taliban control despite the presence of British troops nearby, and it remains to be seen whether overstretched Afghan and NATO troops can hold the town.

Some 7,000 British soldiers have faced fierce battles in northern Helmand province this year, in Kajaki, Sangin, Gereshk and Musa Qala. It is the world's largest opium poppy growing region, and provides the Taliban with tens of millions of dollars.
President Hamid Karzai said the decision to enter Musa Qala came after local Taliban commanders agreed to side with the Afghan government because of brutality committed against townspeople by the Taliban, al-Qaida and foreign fighters.

At least 10 Taliban were reported killed Monday, in addition to more than a dozen killed since fighting intensified Friday.

NATO's International Security Assistance Force said NATO and Afghan troops entered the outskirts of the main part of Musa Qala but would proceed cautiously into the town center because the militants had rigged improvised explosive devices.

An Afghan army commander, Brig. Gen. Gul Agha Naebi, said Musa Qala was surrounded and the attackers were 500 yards from the town center.

"The bombing continues. The area is big. (Tuesday) we will carefully clear the streets from the mines," he said. "Both sides are still exchanging fire. There is still resistance from the Taliban. I think these are foreign fighters, al-Qaida members that we are facing. They are trying to create ways for retreat."

A Taliban spokesman, Qari Yousef Ahmadi, confirmed the militants gave up Musa Qala, but said they left only to avoid civilian casualties.

A resident of Musa Qala, Haji Mohammad Rauf, said he saw Taliban fighters leave in trucks and motorbikes around midday. Two hours later, hundreds of Afghan soldiers streamed in and established security checkpoints, he said.

"I was standing on my roof and saw hundreds of Afghan soldiers drive into town," Rauf said. "All the shops are closed and families are staying inside their homes."

In Kabul, during a joint news conference with the British prime minister, Karzai said Taliban brutality in Musa Qala played a significant part in leading to the attack.

He told of a 15-year-old boy accused of spying by the Taliban who was hung from a ceiling and roasted to death by a gas-fed fire started beneath him. The next morning the militants told the boy's mother she could pick up her son, the president said.

"When she entered the room she found the charcoaled dead body of her son," Karzai said. "Some of the Afghan Taliban who also witnessed atrocities like that, they came and they met with me and they asked me to intervene and (said) that they will switch sides and that is what's happened."

Taliban militants overran Musa Qala in February, four months after British troops left under a controversial peace agreement that gave security responsibilities to town elders. The deal had been privately criticized by U.S. officials as a surrender to the Taliban.

NATO and Afghan forces will have to work hard to hold the town, which lies in a region that has seen fierce fighting this year — the deadliest year in Afghanistan since the U.S.-led invasion that overthrew a Taliban government in 2001 for harboring Osama bin Laden.

Lt. Col. Richard Eaton, a British spokesman, said NATO wouldn't take Musa Qala without a plan to hold it. He said a unit of predominantly Afghan soldiers would be stationed in town.

Brown, who visited British troops in Iraq before coming to Afghanistan, said he had "no doubt" the Musa Qala operation would be successful and that social and economic progress would follow.

"In Musa Qala the action has been taken, and I think we will see in the next few days in Musa Qala that the action will be effective, that it will work and it will bring long-term and lasting results," he said.

During a stop at Camp Bastion in Helmand province, Brown thanked about 150 British soldiers for their "patriotic service."

"It is one of the most difficult of tasks. It is the most testing of times and it is one of the most important of missions, because to win here and to defeat the Taliban and make sure we can give strength to the new democracy of Afghanistan is important to defeating terrorism all around the world," he said.

Brown's visit to Iraq on Sunday signaled the start of what Britain hopes will be the transition from a military mission there to one focused on aiding the economy and providing jobs. His speech was met with enthusiastic applause from British troops.

His speech in southern Afghanistan was more subdued, as was the resulting applause, perhaps reflecting the serious fight that British soldiers find themselves in.

"We have an operation ongoing in Musa Qala, we've just had people die, so it's a different tempo," said one officer, Lt. Andy McLachlan.


WOW so in a month they have managed to kill 9 US allied troops and between Friday and Monday there was over 20 of them dead, going by body count, I would say the Taliban are not winning. Also maybe take note of the highlighted statement regarding the troops there being "overstretched", what do you think will happen as Iraq continues to stabilize? Troops will be redeployed and help restore stability in Afghanistan, we will see how the Taliban fair then when there is actually someone around to drive them out of towns like this one... They will run away, just like they always do :D

[al-muslimah]

Just a gentle reminder to one and all.

General Guidelines

1. Help build an e-Muslim community that supports each other, and promotes the Islamic image..
2. The purpose of this forum is to educate non-Muslims and Muslims about Islam and its tenets.

Post Etiquettes

3. Please post in the appropriate forum.
4. Off-topic freeposts in multiple threads is very annoying please refrain from posting such comments. Off-topic also includes:

*

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13. No sectarian issues allowed. We are promoting the unity of Islam. Allah (Exalted is He) said in Surah Al-An'âm, verse 159:

Verily, those who divide their religion and break up into sects (all kinds of religious sects), you (O Muhammad -- Peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) have no concern in them in the least. Their affair is only with Allâh, Who then will tell them what they used to do.

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Jazakallah for the reminder.

[wilberhum]

No praise of, condoning of, or calls for violence or other unislamic behaviour will be tolerated whatsoever on the forum.

That must be the most ignored rule on LI.
I have seen "Praise of violence" several times today. And today is not ordinary.

[al-muslimah]

That must be the most ignored rule on LI.
I have seen "Praise of violence" several times today. And today is not ordinary.

I wonder who you are refering to wilber?:? Jihad is not a call for violence if thats what u mean

[wilberhum]

I wonder who you are refering to wilber?:? Jihad is not a call for violence if thats what u mean

Not you! And and usual you don't know what anything means.

[al-muslimah]

Not you! And and usual you don't know what anything means.

At least I am AWAKE!! ^o)

[al-muslimah]

I am sorry but this news really makes me happy and if you have a problem with me showing my happiness then speak all you want its your mouth.But that won't change my opinion.
Wa bi tawfiqillah azawajal.

[snakelegs]

i have no problem with the fact that this news makes you happy. you are as much entitled to your opinion as anybody else here.

[barney]

Drat. Diddnt see this thread, just posted a similar one. Ill paste it here.:)

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main...09/wafg109.xml

Two battalions of British and one of Afgan Loyalists have just decided enough is enough in Musa Qala.
So they have attacked the strongest point of Taliban oppression and now the Afgan flag flies above it. The entire force of taliban has been defeated and run off or died.

Some of their legacy of the 8 month reign their remains. Like the 15 year old boy cremated by gas cylinders for some crime "Against Islam". They closed the schools, whipped those women out of Burkhas and all their usual good stuff.

The only sad thing is that Gordon Brown visiting troops said reconstruction cant work until the Taliban "Are Gone".
They will not go. Their will always be some Jihadistic reinforcement coming to help in the misery of the Ummah there.
May Allah, (and the British and Afgan troops) protect the innocent there.

[Joe98]

Like the 15 year old boy cremated by gas cylinders for some crime "Against Islam". They closed the schools, whipped those women out of Burkhas and all their usual good stuff.

An Afghan boy is not a British soldier so why would the Taliban do that?

-

[barney]

As i say, he broke some law of islam.
The Taliban kill to cause chaos. If there is Chaos tehn democracy will fail, and they can get back to the happy-beatings of the 90's without all this "Human rights " stuff the shallow westerners moan on about, not realising its Gods will.

[ahsan28]

The entire force of taliban has been defeated and run off or died.

Six years passed and we are listening to the same stories :D

[barney]

Oh the Taliban will be back.They may be hopeless fighters , but they have no shortage of forign recruits.

I was watching a Taliban propaganda vidio on the news a few days back. Of them shooting up some civilian cars of course. The Guy with the PK GPMG was holding the stock on the top of his shoulder and the guy with the RPG made the sensible decision to fire it at a target about 8 yards away.

If they werent such a disgrace to Islam, they would be funny.

[☆•♥°ąყ℮Տիმ°♥•☆]

Assalam-o-Allikum
the whole issue of afghanistan has me in conflict

1. i completely dissagree with the war...yet ...
2. my brother is currently serving there with the british army.

i pray for all muslims and also for my non-muslim family,
and personally dont really know how i should be looking at this situation...
of course i wish my brother to be safe away from harms way.. but at the same time.. there is no justice to the numbers of innocent muslims losing their lives during these conflicts...
i find this rather a complicated issue to deal with.

My brother had also served 6 months in iraq, .. when i had told him i had converted to islam.. he was very supportive and told me the majority of muslims he had gotten to know during his time in iraq had been very friendly and he had gotten some knowledge about muslims and islam and fully supported me in my decision... i just feel i cant offer the same support back...

i guess im still very new as a convert and inshaAllah i hope in future times i will be able to deal with issues like these with more knowledge...

Peace and Blessings
Ayesha...

[Keltoi]

Assalam-o-Allikum
the whole issue of afghanistan has me in conflict

1. i completely dissagree with the war...yet ...
2. my brother is currently serving there with the british army.

i pray for all muslims and also for my non-muslim family,
and personally dont really know how i should be looking at this situation...
of course i wish my brother to be safe away from harms way.. but at the same time.. there is no justice to the numbers of innocent muslims losing their lives during these conflicts...
i find this rather a complicated issue to deal with.

My brother had also served 6 months in iraq, .. when i had told him i had converted to islam.. he was very supportive and told me the majority of muslims he had gotten to know during his time in iraq had been very friendly and he had gotten some knowledge about muslims and islam and fully supported me in my decision... i just feel i cant offer the same support back...

i guess im still very new as a convert and inshaAllah i hope in future times i will be able to deal with issues like these with more knowledge...

Peace and Blessings
Ayesha...

The question you should ask yourself is whether you buy into the proposition that all people calling themselves Muslims deserve your respect regardless of their actions. As I'm sure you know, the majority of Muslims who have died in Iraq were and are killed by fellow Muslims. The same is true for Afghanistan.

Regardless of the conspiracy theories, the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan aren't about "West vs. Islam". It is very far from being that simple.

[barney]

Regardless of the conspiracy theories, the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan aren't about "West vs. Islam". It is very far from being that simple.

But the conspiracy theories have pretty much taken a grip as fact in most muslim nations.Theyre pretty strong in western countries muslim populations.
30% of UK Muslims beleive the US was in some way behind 9/11.

Perhaps though it is a cultural thing. Countries living outside freedom and democracy, egged on by their dictators to divert their anger without instead of within, towards the "ancient enemy". If you look at most Westaphobic propaganda, we are called Cross worshipers. It's a easy sell for the uneducated or those ignorant of western life. The War On Terror (TM) is packaged by the Jihadists as A New Crusade (TM).
Anyone living in the west knows that Europe and America and Japan and any first world nation no longer gives a flying fig for religion. The label of "Cross worshiper" kinda ran out of steam a long time ago. The west far from wanting to destroy Islam, neither knew nor cared about islam until one morning in september 2001. Despite the constant and unrelenting pressure of western politicians straining the resassurances that Islam is a religion of peace, the Jihadists blow those claims quite literally (in the case of USS Cole) out of the water.

The Real Crusades were a long time ago. The Hospitilar's are now just a small medical organisation in Ireland, The Templers are just a group of old blokes doing some charity work for the needy. Acre's streets are not being filled with blood in the name of Christ.

We really, really have forgotton about religion, and dont care about anyone elses....it's all very quaint. We forgive you for Constantinople, you forgive us for recapturing Spain.
The average joe on the streets of the west has a empty space as regards Islam. They neither know about it or care about it and they certainly dont seek it's destruction.

Unfortunatly, as time passes by, the continued blasting apart of nightclubs, support for the freakish nutjobs of the taliban and chopping off the heads of gays or threats to flog the skin off Teachers who misname teddybears, all of this leaves a nasty impression.

Sites like LI try to redress this balance. But this website isnt enough. If anything is to stop this , the Ummah must recognise the enemy. And the enemy is within themselves.:-\

[Jayda]

Nine troops dead in Afghan ambush

Six US soldiers and three Afghan troops have been killed in fighting in eastern Afghanistan, Nato officials have said. Militants ambushed a patrol of Afghan soldiers and US troops from Nato's International Security Assistance Force (Isaf) in Nuristan province.

The ambush is one of the costliest for US forces this year, already the deadliest for the US since it helped overthrow the Taleban in 2001.

Eight US troops and 11 Afghans were also wounded, Isaf officials said.

The latest casualties bring US fatalities this year in Afghanistan to 101.
Fighting between militants and international forces has intensified in the past two years as the Taleban have mounted a resurgence.

There are currently more than 50,000 foreign soldiers in Afghanistan. About 40,000 are under the command of Isaf, the rest form a coalition under US direction.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/7088366.stm

may God grant them peace...

i cringe whenever i read these news reports...

[ahsan28]

Britain's Afghan mission is a fruitless and failing pursuit

Wednesday December 12, 2007
The Guardian


This week Musa Qala was attacked with B52s before the Americans and British entered what was left of the town. Who knows how many civilians have died? As the Americans found with Falluja in Iraq, there is no way you can "conquer" an urban settlement unless you intend to colonise it for ever. You can only stun it into temporary submission and long-term antipathy. There is no military solution in Afghanistan, not even a military start to a solution. Can Brown not see this?

The six-year western operation in Afghanistan has all but failed in its goal of stamping out lawlessness and turning the country into a stable pro-western democracy. Western agencies can, falteringly, build roads, bridges and schools, but they cannot sustain them without central order. That this does not exist is evident in the restrictions on westerners moving outside the capital.

In Afghanistan there is no realistic mission, no achievable objective, no long-term strategy, only the fruitless pursuit of failure.


http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisf...226004,00.html

[ahsan28]

Brown: 'It's time to talk to the Taliban'

Independent. UK
Published: 12 December 2007

As the deadliest year in Afghanistan since the US-led invasion in 2001 comes to a close, Gordon Brown is ready to talk to the Taliban in a major shift in strategy that is likely to cause consternation among hardliners in the White House.

Six years after British troops were first deployed to oust the Taliban regime, the Prime Minister believes the time has come to open a dialogue in the hope of moving from military action to consensus-building among the tribal leaders. Since 1 January, more than 6,200 people have been killed in violence related to the insurgency, including 40 British soldiers. In total, 86 British troops have died.

The dialogue strategy is the latest attempt by Mr Brown to distance himself from the military legacy of the Blair era and the hardline instincts of President George Bush.

http://news.independent.co.uk/world/...cle3244696.ece


Taliban can lose battles but still win war

Telegraph. UK
12/12/2007


This afternoon Gordon Brown will acknowledge a truth now widely agreed in Kabul's diplomatic community: that a new approach is required to get Afghanistan back on its feet.

The Taliban is less inclined to fight Nato troops head-on - but they are not fighting to win. Their strategy is to exhaust the political will of the international community.

Western commanders acknowledge that 50,000 foreign troops are wholly inadequate to cover the whole country. Nato, meanwhile, is finding that its efforts to chase down the Taliban seriously undermine its popularity. Central government has never had much writ in provinces such as Helmand, and the credibility of the Afghan government has been further degraded by spiralling levels of corruption.

British troops look too much like foreign invaders in the Afghan south, where people still remember the three Afghan Wars and imagine that Britain is seeking revenge for past defeats.


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/m.../12/do1207.xml

[MTAFFI]

Over 50 Taliban killed in 2-day battle
By NOOR KHAN, Associated Press Writer Wed Dec 12, 5:08 AM ET


KANDAHAR, Afghanistan - Afghan soldiers backed by NATO air power killed more than 50 Taliban fighters during a two-day battle with militants who tried to attack a southern Afghan town near the one they were routed from this week, Afghanistan's Defense Ministry said Wednesday.

Afghan soldiers fought the insurgents in Sangin, a town in Helmand province that neighbors Musa Qala, which Taliban fighters had controlled since February before abandoning it this week in the face of an offensive by Afghan, British and U.S. forces.

"When the terrorists were defeated in Musa Qala, they escaped to Sangin and started firing in and around Sangin," the Defense Ministry said.

Among the 50 militants killed were three foreigners and three commanders, the ministry said. It said no civilians were hurt or killed in the operation.

There was no way to independently verify the death toll at the remote battle site, and NATO's International Security Assistance Force does not release casualty figures for militants.

Taliban militants overran Musa Qala in February, four months after British troops left the town following a contentious peace agreement that gave security responsibilities to Afghan elders. U.S. officials criticized the deal as surrendering to the Taliban.

Afghan, British and U.S. forces moved into Musa Qala's center on Tuesday, and Afghan and British officials have vowed to station troops there to prevent it from falling back into Taliban hands. More than two dozen militants were killed during the battle for Musa Qala, as was one British soldier.

Northern Helmand province is the world's largest opium poppy growing region and has seen the heaviest fighting in Afghanistan this year.

Helmand's governor, Asadullah Wafa, said he and a delegation of officials from the Afghan capital, Kabul, would travel to Musa Qala on Thursday to hand out 5,000 tons of aid, including wheat and blankets, to families who fled the fighting and are now starting to return.

"After 11 months the Afghan flag is again flying over the Musa Qala district center," Wafa said.

All of the tribal leaders in Musa Qala now support the government, Wafa said, adding that Afghan police and army soldiers would have a strong presence there.

Though the militants were pushed out of Musa Qala — an important symbolic victory for Afghan and NATO troops — Taliban fighters still control three remote districts in northern Helmand — Washer, Naw Zad and Bagrhan, said Afghan Defense Ministry spokesman Gen. Mohammad Zahir Azimi. The Afghan-NATO force will continue operations in those areas, he said.

Meanwhile, a suicide car bomb exploded near an Afghan army convoy in the southern city of Kandahar, killing one person, said the provincial police chief, Sayed Agha Saqib. Two soldiers and four civilians were wounded, he said.

This year has been the deadliest since the U.S.-led invasion in 2001. More than 6,300 people have been killed in insurgency-related violence, according to an Associated Press tally of figures from Western and Afghan officials.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071212/...as/afghanistan

[MTAFFI]

Britain's Afghan mission is a fruitless and failing pursuit

Wednesday December 12, 2007
The Guardian


This week Musa Qala was attacked with B52s before the Americans and British entered what was left of the town. Who knows how many civilians have died? As the Americans found with Falluja in Iraq, there is no way you can "conquer" an urban settlement unless you intend to colonise it for ever. You can only stun it into temporary submission and long-term antipathy. There is no military solution in Afghanistan, not even a military start to a solution. Can Brown not see this?

The six-year western operation in Afghanistan has all but failed in its goal of stamping out lawlessness and turning the country into a stable pro-western democracy. Western agencies can, falteringly, build roads, bridges and schools, but they cannot sustain them without central order. That this does not exist is evident in the restrictions on westerners moving outside the capital.

In Afghanistan there is no realistic mission, no achievable objective, no long-term strategy, only the fruitless pursuit of failure.


http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisf...226004,00.html

this is an opinion article, so who cares what this idiot has to say?

[MTAFFI]

as for the other two articles, Gordon Brown is a just a wuss who is afraid to fight. The was in Afghanistan has thus far not been a great success other than driving the Taliban out of the government, but then again there is only 50,000 troops in Afghanistan right now... Do you really think this is a serious military effort being put forth right now? And the Taliban cant even beat these guys, they have had 6 years and are still dying in high numbers, I say let them keep dying and once troops start leaving Iraq put them in Afghanistan, put 150,000 troops and afghanistan and see how the Taliban do then. I really cant wait until a real military campaign is carried out on these back woods 5th century idiots, their blood is the blood that harbors OBL and that blood is the blood that will satisfy the thirst for vengence. :)

[Keltoi]

If Mushareff starts to push the Taliban out of their Pakistani safehavens, which doesn't seem likely, then the Taliban could become a memory. The problem is that they are free to operate inside Pakistan and certain areas of Helmund with impunity. The American presence there is small, made up mostly of infrastructure engineers and non-combat personel. The job was given to the British and the Canadians for the most part...and sadly they don't seem to be interested in sticking to the gameplan.

[MTAFFI]

Brown lays out Afghanistan policy
Wed Dec 12, 7:47 AM ET


LONDON - British Prime Minister Gordon Brown said Wednesday that former insurgent fighters in Afghanistan can win a role in the country's future if they renounce violence.

Brown told lawmakers that Britain would support work by Afghan President Hamid Karzai to bring those who have previously targeted international forces into mainstream politics.

"If they are prepared to renounce violence and abide by the constitution and respect basic human rights then there is a place for them," Brown said.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071212/...in_afghanistan

I think this was posted earlier but I felt the earlier post was serving an agenda. I think this is pretty clear cut, Gordon Brown is basically give up fighting against us and you can be forgiven. Not that I see the Taliban actually giving up, but at least Mr. Brown is offering them a chance

[Gator]

Article from the NY Times on Afghanistan. Just FYI -

Full Link - http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/12/wo...afghan.html?hp

December 12, 2007
On Taliban Turf, Long Lines of Ailing Children
By C. J. CHIVERS
KARAWADDIN, Afghanistan — The Afghan boy crouched near a wall in this remote village, where the Taliban’s strength has prevented the government from providing services. His eyes were coated by an opaque yellow sheath.

Sgt. Nick Graham, an American Army medic, approached. The villagers crowded around. They said the boy’s name was Hayatullah. He was 10 years old and developed the eye disease six years ago. “Can you help him?” a man asked.

Sergeant Graham examined the boy. He was blind. There was nothing the medic could do.

A second man appeared, pushing a wheelbarrow that held a hunched child with purplish lips and twisted feet, problems associated with severe congenital heart disease. Sergeant Graham listened to his heart. Without surgery, he said, this stunted boy would probably die.

A third man turned the corner from an alley, leading a girl, Baratbibi, by the arm. She was 7 years old. She turned her ruined eyes toward the afternoon sun without blinking. They were more heavily coated than Hayatullah’s. Sergeant Graham sighed.

“We could use an entire hospital here,” he said.

Throughout early December a company of paratroopers from the 82nd Airborne Division patrolled the Nawa District of Ghazni Province, an isolated region near Pakistan where the Taliban operate with confidence and the Afghan government’s presence is almost nonexistent.

.....

[ahsan28]

I say let them keep dying and once troops start leaving Iraq put them in Afghanistan, put 150,000 troops and afghanistan and see how the Taliban do then.

Why not, if you are so sure of winning the war :D

[MTAFFI]

Article from the NY Times on Afghanistan. Just FYI -

Full Link - http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/12/wo...afghan.html?hp

December 12, 2007
On Taliban Turf, Long Lines of Ailing Children
By C. J. CHIVERS
KARAWADDIN, Afghanistan — The Afghan boy crouched near a wall in this remote village, where the Taliban’s strength has prevented the government from providing services. His eyes were coated by an opaque yellow sheath.

Sgt. Nick Graham, an American Army medic, approached. The villagers crowded around. They said the boy’s name was Hayatullah. He was 10 years old and developed the eye disease six years ago. “Can you help him?” a man asked.

Sergeant Graham examined the boy. He was blind. There was nothing the medic could do.

A second man appeared, pushing a wheelbarrow that held a hunched child with purplish lips and twisted feet, problems associated with severe congenital heart disease. Sergeant Graham listened to his heart. Without surgery, he said, this stunted boy would probably die.

A third man turned the corner from an alley, leading a girl, Baratbibi, by the arm. She was 7 years old. She turned her ruined eyes toward the afternoon sun without blinking. They were more heavily coated than Hayatullah’s. Sergeant Graham sighed.

“We could use an entire hospital here,” he said.

Throughout early December a company of paratroopers from the 82nd Airborne Division patrolled the Nawa District of Ghazni Province, an isolated region near Pakistan where the Taliban operate with confidence and the Afghan government’s presence is almost nonexistent.

.....

good article, thanks for the post

[MTAFFI]

Why not, if you are so sure of winning the war :D

that doesnt even make sense

[ahsan28]

that doesnt even make sense

That was your claim, not mine :D

Where did you learn that increase in the number of troops becomes a surety for success :D

[barney]

Brown announced a new strategy today. Concentrating on rebuilding rather than suppressing the tallys.

Hmm. That will turn rapidly into a we build a powerplant, the tallys knock it down...regardless if it's powering life support equipment in a hospital.

Still, theres a lot to do to help the Afgans and we have to do it in spite of their tormenters.

[MTAFFI]

That was your claim, not mine :D

Where did you learn that increase in the number of troops becomes a surety for success :D

my claim is that when the troop levels are increased success should follow, and probably will. Your statement above didnt make any sense in relation to my comment, hence my retort.

As for your second sentence :D, a troop increase does not mean automatic victory, but if 50,000 troops, mostly NATO forces who dont really ever make much aggression towards the Taliban can manage to hold them from taking the capital and taking the country, then what would 150,000 troops or 200,000 troops do? The Taliban havent been that much of a challenge to be honest with you, everytime they fight they lose men, everytime they fight they lose ground, the US knows this, the worlds military commanders know this, it is simple to see.

Iraq has been the bigger problem and the bigger black eye if you will, in the face of America. The US was dupped into thinking Iraq was a threat and the result was sending the country into total mayhem, which is looked at as the US's fault and our problem to fix, which is why most of the US effort is concentrated there, and as of late it seems to be working better and better.

Now Afghanistan is a whole different story, the US has all the right and reason in the world to be there and to kill the Taliban and OBL and God willing we will do both. Once Iraq is capable of handling at least some of its own affairs US troops will leave and will continue to leave and then the Taliban will get their turn, they will run to Pakistan and into the mountains like the cowards they are and they will suffer defeat just as they do now and hopefully the world and the Afghan people will be lucky enough to be rid of them. :statisfie

[ahsan28]

Once Iraq is capable of handling at least some of its own affairs US troops will leave and will continue to leave and then the Taliban will get their turn, they will run to Pakistan and into the mountains like the cowards they are and they will suffer defeat just as they do now and hopefully the world and the Afghan people will be lucky enough to be rid of them. :statisfie

A wishful thinking perhaps, away from the existing realities.

[wilberhum]

A wishful thinking perhaps, away from the existing realities.

Ya, MTAFFI has no sense of reality.

He thinks some day there will be peace.

[ahsan28]

He thinks some day there will be peace.

Peace through aggression and indiscriminate killings?

[wilberhum]

Peace through aggression and indiscriminate killings?

Indiscriminate killings? I wasn't talking about the Taliban.

The Taliban have no knowledge of peace.

[MTAFFI]

A wishful thinking perhaps, away from the existing realities.

so what is the reality then? From what I see violence has significantly decreased since the surge and more and more Iraqis are pushing the insurgents out of their country and siding with the US.

I already know you are going to say "As soon as that is done the Iraqis will turn on the US troops", my answer to that is once the Iraqis can hold their own there wont be need for US troops, so why attack the US troops if they are no longer occupying your country.

We will see, the Talibans days are numbered, it wont be soon but within a couple years they two will be defeated just as AQI is being done right now
(I am sure you are one of those who used to glorify or make excuses for the AQI arent you, probably praised their attacks on US troops, not much to glorify anymore is there?LOL:ooh:)

[MTAFFI]

here is a nice look at the progress in Iraq, maybe this will help you find "reality"

http://blogs.usatoday.com/oped/2007/...ew-on-war.html

Our view on war in Iraq: Surge's success holds chance to seize the moment in Iraq
Instead, Democrats are lost in time, Bush lowers the bar for Baghdad.
Iraq remains a violent place, but the trends are encouraging.

U.S. and Iraqi casualties are down sharply. Fewer of the most lethal Iranian-made explosive devices are being used as roadside bombs. In community after community, Sunni groups who were once in league with al-Qaeda have switched sides and are working with the U.S. forces.

On the Shiite side of Iraq's sectarian chasm, something similar is happening. About 70,000 local, pro-government groups, a bit like neighborhood watch groups, have formed to expose extremist militias, according to Stephen Biddle of the Council on Foreign Relations.

But as much as facts have changed on the ground, little seems to have changed in Washington. There are plans to withdraw some troops next year, but there is no clear picture of the endgame in Iraq. How long will troops be needed? Exactly what do we expect success to look like? Will we leave behind a permanent presence?

None of the answers are any clearer than they were when the news began improving. In fact, they seem fuzzier.

On the Republican side, the White House has been busy making excuses for the Iraqi government's failure to move toward national reconciliation (which is the goal of the troop surge), and it has lowered the benchmarks for success to the level of irrelevance. That translates into reduced accountability, continued dependency and an open-ended commitment. Lowering the bar for the Iraqi government sends a message that Baghdad can enjoy security paid for in American lives, and reconstruction aid paid by America's taxpayers, and ignore its responsibilities.

Congressional Democrats, meanwhile, seem lost in a time warp. They could try to impose new benchmarks that acknowledge the military progress. Instead, too many seem unable or unwilling to admit that President Bush's surge of 30,000 more troops has succeeded beyond their initial predictions. Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., who in the spring declared the war lost, said last week that "the surge hasn't accomplished its goals." Anti-war Democrats remain fixated on tying war funding to a rapid troop withdrawal. Yet pulling the troops out precipitously threatens to squander the progress of recent months toward salvaging a decent outcome to the Iraq debacle.

What's needed is acknowledgment that the surge is achieving what was intended: not complete military victory but enough stability to make political compromise possible. What's missing is Iraqi will to take advantage of the success.

So far, the Iraqis have missed just about every benchmark that Congress set early this year and Bush promised to enforce. Too often, they just don't seem to be making an effort. Those benchmarks included passing laws on sharing oil revenue, allowing more former Baath Party members into official jobs and holding provincial elections.

To some degree, the positive "bottom up" developments mitigate that failure. The Sunnis, for instance, have abandoned their political isolation and now want to participate in the government. But the Shiites' persistent resistance to letting them in makes a case for new, meaningful benchmarks, not trivial certainties such as simply passing a budget, one of the requirements the White House has set.

Beyond benchmarks, the military progress has been paralleled by a less aggressive stance by Iran, creating another opening. Iran has enormous influence in Iraq, particularly in Shiite regions. More aggressive diplomacy of the kind advocated by the bipartisan Iraq Study Group would help — even a regional conference such as the one the United States recently hosted in Annapolis, Md., to restart Middle East peace talks.

If the United States has learned anything over the past few years of war, it's that apparent calm can change in an instant. (Just Wednesday, car bombs killed at least 41 people and wounded 150 at the main market in the southern Shiite city of Amarah.) The U.S. military is stretched thin and cannot maintain 160,000 troops in Iraq beyond next spring. So now, before the surge starts to unwind, is the time to refocus the war effort and begin defining the endgame, while leaving the timetable flexible.

The Iraq war, which has cost so much in U.S. lives and treasure, deserves far more than muddling through with fingers crossed. It demands a credible, long-term plan that will allow the United States to get out in a way that preserves U.S. interests in the region, not a political stalemate that forces it to stay in.

[ahsan28]

(I am sure you are one of those who used to glorify or make excuses for the AQI arent you, probably praised their attacks on US troops, not much to glorify anymore is there?LOL:ooh:)

An opinion?

[MTAFFI]

An opinion?

the pics were not opinion, but I figured since you think so highly of them :)

[ahsan28]

Diplomats face expulsion from Afghanistan for 'talking to the Taleban'

From Times Online
December 26, 2007

The United Nations is trying to reverse a decision by the Afghan government to expel two British and Irish diplomats who have been accused of negotiating with the Taleban.

Michael Semple, acting European Union mission head, and Mervyn Patterson, a senior UN official, are due to be deported tomorrow after the President’s office deemed that “their presence was detrimental to the national security of the country”.

The news comes amid claims the British secret service has engaged in peace talks with senior Taleban insurgents in the country.

The Daily Telegraph reported today that MI6 agents held a number of discussions, known as “jirgas”, with members of the hardline Islamist group.

If true, the revelation could embarrass Gordon Brown, coming just weeks after he told MPs: “We will not enter into negotiations with these people.”

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle3096583.ece

[snakelegs]

am i confused (again)? :muddlehea
i thought even the afghan government had offered to negotiate with the talibaan and were turned down?
i doubt that there is any room for compromise from either side, but what is wrong with negotiating?

[MTAFFI]

US backs Afghan reconciliation talks
By FISNIK ABRASHI, Associated Press Writer Thu Dec 27, 10:09 AM ET


KABUL, Afghanistan - The United States supports reconciliation talks with Taliban fighters who have no ties to al-Qaida and accept Afghanistan's constitution, the U.S. ambassador said Thursday.

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William Wood said the U.S. is in favor of a "serious reconciliation program with those elements of the Taliban who are prepared to accept the constitution and the authority of the elected government" of President Hamid Karzai.

"The only place where we have concern would be the members of the Taliban with close connection to al-Qaida, the reason being that al-Qaida is an international threat, it is a global threat and we don't believe that there should be separate peaces with al-Qaida," he said.

At a news conference in Kabul, Wood also said the United States was not involved in the controversy over the expulsion of two senior officials from the European Union and U.N. But he said he was confident the EU and U.N. were acting with good intentions.

The government of Afghanistan had accused Michael Semple, the acting head of the EU mission, and Mervyn Patterson, an official with the U.N. mission in Afghanistan, of holding unauthorized talks with Taliban militants in the country's south.

The decision to expel them seems to be the result of a "misunderstanding" and lack of coordination with the government of Afghanistan, Wood said.

"In any situation like this, coordination, transparency and communication among the good guys is absolutely necessary," he said.

Karzai has voiced a growing interest in meeting with Taliban leaders to try to persuade them to join the government and put down their arms.

But the expulsion of the two officials could make some Western nations and international organizations wary of making their own overtures to the militants in an effort to end the insurgency, which has left over 6,300 people — mostly militants — dead this year alone.

Wood said Afghan and foreign troops have killed or arrested many Taliban field commanders and other militant leaders and thwarted their offensive operations.

As a result, there have been an increase in the flow of foreign fighters into the country and also a rise in terrorist attacks, he said.

"The leadership of the Taliban may have felt that they had lost so many leaders that they could not replace them easily with Afghans, or they may have felt that the morale among their troops was falling and they needed leaders of a more ideological character," Wood said.

Following a takeover earlier this month by Afghan, British and U.S. troops of the town of Musa Qala — which the Taliban had controlled since February — officials discovered drugs worth $500 million in street value, Wood said. Afghan officials have said that Musa Qala hosted dozens of heroin labs.

"No clearer proof can be found of the cooperative relationship between the Taliban, who used to dominate Musa Qala, and the druggers, who were using Musa Qala as a storehouse and the center for distribution," Wood said.

Wood said that the U.S. and its allies were stepping up their training of the country's security forces, with a particular focus on its troubled police force, which is often accused of corruption. The Afghan army will reach its target of 70,000 troops by the end of 2008, he said.

Wood also said that Iran "remains an ambiguous neighbor ... providing money to finance projects that are important to Iran inside Afghanistan."

"But there have also been instances in which weapons from Iran were found to be going to the Taliban," he said.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071227/...as/afghan_us_1

THIS SHOULD ANSWER YOUR QUESTIONS

[Zarmina]

‘The Afghanistan Review’

A Juncture to Set the Policies Right,
an Opportunity to Redeem the Past Blunders

http://www.aopnews.com/lotw/ghalib_afghan_review.html