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HunterMan
11-13-2007, 08:55 PM
:sl:
Greetings and glad tidings to you all, I would like to discuss the issue of proper food nutrition especially for the educated and enlightened Muslim.

HunterMan's Essay on Eating Good Food

To sum up I would like to say

1. Meat is good
2. Fat is good
3. Saturated fat is good
4. Natural animal fat is healthy and doesn't cause sickness
5. Extreme vegan and vegetarianism is bad

Seeking to enlighten ourselves we mistakenly adopted the misguided doctrines of a people who lie and ignore the truth about food. I here too many Muslims repeat the garbage espoused by a bunch of ignoramuses or greedy capitalists, it deeply disturbs me to here an educated Muslim say 'low fat' in a discussion about maintaining health. Allah created animals and saturated fat and would prevent us from its consumption if it was harmful, but quite contrair, we are encouraged to eat it and be thankful, this is for a good reason.

A dentist named Weston Price set out on a journey to study traditional people and ascertain the truth concerning rumors of their magnificent health and prowess, after 10 years of studying various tribes what did he find? Traditional people possessed magnificently built bodies and faces, their teeth were perfectly strait and beautifully white with virtual absence for decay and cavities, their faces were broad and handsome with well developed cheek and jaw bones. Their bodies were robust, strong and efficient. No signs of malignancy or chronic disease was discovered in them, no heart attacks, no strokes, no arthritis and no cancer, something which many other explorers and researchers independently proved. These people ate very different diets but had one thing in common, they all ate roughly 10 times the fat soluble vitamins and minerals compared to the average American of that time, they all strived to eat animal products such as fish, game, beef, birds ect. But there preferential parts were the fatty organs and tissues which contained the fat soluble activators that allowed them to attain great health and development, they frequently discarded the leaner muscle meats.

During the time of the prophet animals were relatively rare, but it was always the food of choice because people valued them for optimal development and the promotion of health, this was common knowledge to virtually all traditional people. While there is much more to say, I would appreciate it if you read the links below to help expand you knowledge, I hope this helps you all out, especially those with children whose needs of animal products for physical and mental development are critical at that point in their lives, plus fat in meat, milk and butter for frying just make food taste delicious and choosing to eat bland nonsense tastes bad and is bad for your health:sl:.

Links:

http://www.westonaprice.org/

http://journeytoforever.org/farm_lib.../pricetoc.html
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Muezzin
11-14-2007, 08:45 PM
Maybe it's not so much a question of diet as it is a question of lifestyle. I imagine the 'various tribes' studied above get a lot of exercise in their daily life, so they can convert the fat into muscle.

Urbanites tend to eat a disproportionate amount of fat in relation to the exercise they do, thus they get flabby.
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tetsujin
11-14-2007, 11:28 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Muezzin
Maybe it's not so much a question of diet as it is a question of lifestyle. I imagine the 'various tribes' studied above get a lot of exercise in their daily life, so they can convert the fat into muscle.

Urbanites tend to eat a disproportionate amount of fat in relation to the exercise they do, thus they get flabby.
Add to the fact that he died in 1948 at the age of 78, and that research since then has been far more extensive.
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HunterMan
11-15-2007, 02:17 PM
Hello All,

Yes Muezzin, you are right to assert that physical exertion does indeed have a great effect on the body's organic system, the prophets of god were virtually all physically active and capable individuals, the prophet Muhammad may peace be upon him was know for his tremendous physical prowesses, and according to the sunnah a Muslim should know how to swim, wield a bow and ride an animal of transport, all of which are physical activities, (of course now a days archery and riding are substituted with their modern equivalents), in fact I think we should have a new board or sub board here specifically for exercising, (such a board would not be a material object used to preform a specific exercise, but rather a figurative board where individuals can post their various writings concerning all exercise based ideas.)

While an active life does show how one can achieve a low level of body fat and well developed muscles, it in no way can answer how such tribes achieved superior development in the facial bones and especially in their teeth. The answer is that animal fat, particularly of the saturated kind, along with its soluble vitamins such as vitamin A and D provide the necessary catalysts for optimal mineral and protein absorption and utilization, this is how their bodies are nourished with a surplus of materials that allow the development of broad faces, strait teeth and freedom from cavities and weak bones (osteoporosis).

The key concept here is that rather than simply meeting the demands for energy and calories, animal fat also possesses qualities that are essential for optimal human development, it was common knowledge to virtually all traditional people that animal products especially fat, are essential for health and development, the ancients always went to great lengths to obtain them, some common animal products rich in fat soluble activators are: Butter, Milk, Cream, Seafood, Fish Eggs (caviar for the well endowed and roe for the man of modest income), Shrimp, Chicken Skin and best of all, Animal Organs. The forgoing products are not only amongst the healthiest foods one can eat, but almost everyone reading this could admit that they are also amongst the tastiest foods that they had the pleasure to consume, especially when they were young before the mass brain washing/fear mongering of gullible medical practitioners and processed food/pharmaceutical drug pushing corporation giants bombard ones cognitive faculties with nutritional fallacies which amount simply to slick salesmanship masquerading as science.

Fat is healthy and Tastes soooooo good, so eat it in its due measure, be thankful to Allah (Glory be to Allah alone) and prosper:thumbs_up
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Jayda
11-15-2007, 02:23 PM
hola

almost anything in excess is bad for you... whether it is vitamin D, water or saturated fat. and there are a number of nuances (like your environment and level of activity). the body needs to preserve a certain amount of balance to function properly... it is best to stick to the food pyramid rather than isolate factors unless there is a medical reason to do otherwise.

que Dios te bendiga
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islamirama
11-15-2007, 03:22 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Jayda
hola

almost anything in excess is bad for you... whether it is vitamin D, water or saturated fat. and there are a number of nuances (like your environment and level of activity). the body needs to preserve a certain amount of balance to function properly... it is best to stick to the food pyramid rather than isolate factors unless there is a medical reason to do otherwise.

que Dios te bendiga
I agree with that and no one should agree with that more than a Muslim. Our religious is a religion of moderation and calls for moderation in everything from religion to eating to every aspect of our life.

Saturated fat and animal fat are not healthy for you. Unless you can back that statement up with proof. Even butter is not healthy for you these days, unless its the real thing without any processing. The fact of the matter is, most of the stuff is not healthy for you if it is processed. Lot of chemicals have been added and other junk and lot of the good stuff is taken out thru pasteurizations and what not. Anyways, Hardly any fact is good for you these days. You eat, then go sit on a coach or at your office. The people of old days used to eat what they want and then went out and did hard work not click their fingers on a keyboard all day. What they burned off in a day, we probably take a month.
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Jayda
11-15-2007, 03:31 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by islamirama
I agree with that and no one should agree with that more than a Muslim. Our religious is a religion of moderation and calls for moderation in everything from religion to eating to every aspect of our life.

Saturated fat and animal fat are not healthy for you. Unless you can back that statement up with proof. Even butter is not healthy for you these days, unless its the real thing without any processing. The fact of the matter is, most of the stuff is not healthy for you if it is processed. Lot of chemicals have been added and other junk and lot of the good stuff is taken out thru pasteurizations and what not. Anyways, Hardly any fact is good for you these days. You eat, then go sit on a coach or at your office. The people of old days used to eat what they want and then went out and did hard work not click their fingers on a keyboard all day. What they burned off in a day, we probably take a month.
hola islamirama,

i completely agree with your point about the chemicals and 'junk' in food these days. i still go to butchers for meat, markets for produce, fromageries for cheese, bakers for bread and delis for everything else. the old methods are the best... it might not survive in the refrigerator as long but it's healthier and tastes better.

que Dios te bendiga
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HunterMan
11-16-2007, 04:21 PM
Hello good friends, I hope your all having a mighty fine day

Indeed moderation is the best way to go about our daily lives, congratulations on accepting that fact which, Allah willing shall help you all in the life of this world, of course moderation also extends to our dietary choices as well, but you all now that already for sure. But the problem is that many don't understand just how much is needed to be moderate in terms of eating especially when it comes to fat. One of the absolute worse eating plans you can follow is the Standard American Diet or SAD diet, how ironic for it is without a doubt a very SAD and miserable diet, firstly the sugar content of the diet is abnormally high, the animal protein and fat content is far too low, it is by all accounts a highly unbalanced diet. The SAD diet was formed as a result of massive lobbying efforts by the immensely powerful processed food corporations. The fact of the matter is that if you want a truly moderate diet you must consume more natural animal fat and far less unnatural processed vegetable oils,trans fats and carbohydrates.

There is no doubt that saturated fat and cholesterol are not factors in heart or cardiovascular disease, every independent and honest study has proven that time and time again, the results are often intentionally neglected and demented to suit the junk food companies who's basic products are sugars and rancid vegetable oils, just look at any garbage processed food product such as a chocolate bar, the basic ingredients are most likley sugar, corn syrup and some sort of awful perverted vegetable oil, the true cause of cardio-vascular disease is excessive sugar and trans fats found in unnatural vegetable oils that are pushed by the SAD diet.

If such was untrue then why are there more cases of chronic diseases now then at the turn of the century where people consumed meat, butter, cream and eggs with more relish then what we do now? Why do the French have less rates of heart disease then other westerners even though they eat more saturated fat, the corporate marketers say that alcohol protects them from heart diseases, I don't know about you but that is the biggest load of garbage I've ever heard, its the other way around the fat protects them form alcohol.

Heres a link for further Information, Have a good day.

http://www.westonaprice.org/knowyourfats/index.html
http://www.mercola.com/2002/feb/23/v...m_myths_06.htm
http://www.thegreatcholesterolcon.com/
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HunterMan
11-22-2007, 11:17 AM
:sl: my good friends,

Here is some info regarding animal products consumption and bone health, if you don't eat any animal products your bones could get weak and crumble into so many particles of dust.

Animal Foods and Osteoporosis

One dictum of the soy-promoters is that animal foods are bad for the bones and we should all adopt a "plant-based" diet to prevent bone loss. New research by a team of anthropologists, economists and paleopathologists has documented degenerative joint disease, dental decay, stunted growth and other bone problems in pre-Columbian Indians. Those who practiced farming and lived in towns and cities had the most problems, while those who had access to plenty of animal foods had the least. The healthiest populations were those living on the coast of Brazil, where they had access to ample food from land and sea. During the 19th century, the Plains Indians also enjoyed excellent health on a diet based on buffalo. The least healthy people where those from the urban cultures of Mexico and Central America, and the Zuni Pueblo people of New Mexico, whose diets were almost devoid of animal foods (New York Times, 10/29/02). Promotion of plant-based diets for healthy bones is completely untenable in the face of these findings.

So don't be fooled, herbage and fruitamins are nice now and then, but nothing can build a powerful, healthy and admirable physique the way animal products can.
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Malaikah
11-22-2007, 12:10 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by HunterMan
Seeking to enlighten ourselves we mistakenly adopted the misguided doctrines of a people who lie and ignore the truth about food. I here too many Muslims repeat the garbage espoused by a bunch of ignoramuses or greedy capitalists, it deeply disturbs me to here an educated Muslim say 'low fat' in a discussion about maintaining health. Allah created animals and saturated fat and would prevent us from its consumption if it was harmful, but quite contrair, we are encouraged to eat it and be thankful, this is for a good reason.
:sl:

I have to disagree, Allah made many things halal and we by no means have a stomach large enough to fit all of it in there.

No where does the Quran or sunnah encourage us to eat large amounts of fat, unless you of something that we don't?

If you must insist on pushing this view- fine. However please do not act like it is sanctioned by our religion.

There is no doubt that saturated fat and cholesterol are not factors in heart or cardiovascular disease, every independent and honest study has proven that time and time again, the results are often intentionally neglected and demented to suit the junk food companies who's basic products are sugars and rancid vegetable oils, just look at any garbage processed food product such as a chocolate bar, the basic ingredients are most likley sugar, corn syrup and some sort of awful perverted vegetable oil, the true cause of cardio-vascular disease is excessive sugar and trans fats found in unnatural vegetable oils that are pushed by the SAD diet.
You must be joking?! Cholesterol is a factor in cardiovascular disease! Have you heart of atherosclerosis? Those massive plaques that ruin arteries? They are packed with cholesterol (LDL), and they can kill you!

And by the way- you can't use one diet (which sounds ridiculous itself- what kind of diet encourages eating junk food? I've never heard of that in my life!) to prove that we must no start eating fat.
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HunterMan
11-22-2007, 01:45 PM
:sl: Dear Malaikah,

Your spirited reply only goes to indicate how you've been deceived by the modern capitalist establishment, I hope you would do more research before you come to your ultimate conclusions.

Firstly I have to understand what your angle is, are you a medical practitioner, are you a parent, have you ever stood steadfast against any chronic disease, and what do you view as the optimal diet for you and others?

Now I would like to say that the Quran tells us to eat what is wholesome and good, saturated fat tissue comprise a major part of all animal foods such as meat, milk and eggs. As the fat is part of the whole animal we should consume it and not discard, dement or denature it from the way Allah (SWT) has made it by eating only lean meats, eating egg whites and discarding the yolks and by consuming fractionated low, skim or no fat milks which are man made perversions. Natural animal fats nourished mankind for time immemorial and have never been associated with sickness, modern man made vegetable oils are rancid, despicable inventions made by the most demeaning processes to create an abomination against the natural foods created by Allah.

Cholesterol is absolutely not the cause of any cardiovascular disease but rather nourishes your body and brings health.

How come cardiovascular diseases have only become pervasive during the last 100 years when it went from relative obscurity and exploded to become the main cause of death in the western world, animal fats were consumed with relish since the dawn of man and we never had such a problem like this before? Ask yourself my kind Malaikah how could natural animal fat possibly be responsible for the scourge of chronic disease its accused for if during the last 100 years the intake of saturated fat actually declined, it doesn't make any sense. Well then if animal fat decreased and disease increased then there must be another cause, so you know what it is? The true cause of disease is correlated with an increase in consumption of unnatural rancid vegetable oils and refined sugar which have increased by hundreds of percents since the last hundred years.

There are exactly ZERO honest scientific research papers that show any relation between saturated fat and cholesterol and cardio vascular disease, in fact studies show the opposite.

Here are some likes you should read that will help shed light on the truth about animal fat.

http://www.cholesterol-and-health.co...rol-Myths.html

http://www.healthbeatnews.com/SatFatMyth.htm

http://healthforu.info/health/diethe...-Food-Lies.php
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IbnAbdulHakim
11-22-2007, 02:00 PM
Alhamdulillah i have just recently devoured delicious meat, and i must agree it was very good

Assalamu Alaikum
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HunterMan
11-22-2007, 02:20 PM
Alhamdulillah brother IbnAbdulHakim and congratulations,

The food of the people of paradise is meat and fruit, it is very healthy for you and is almost a religious duty if you can obtain it. Before you get any ideas allow me to justify my statement. A strong believer is better then a weak believer right, well it just so happens that animal products are the best substances you can eat to gain strength and fortitude, and remember good brother the fat is what gives the meat it juiciness and flavor, and more importantly did you know that saturated fat and cholesterol naturally increase the bodily production of testosterone which will give anyone who eats it a prodigiously powerful body which would be more capable of serving the will of Allah inshaallah.:thumbs_up
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IbnAbdulHakim
11-22-2007, 02:23 PM
^ why jazakAllaahu khair brother, i felt quite proud after eating that meat and reading your thread.

Yes indeed i feel the effects of benefit all over!

Assalamu Alaikum wa Rahmatullaah
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Woodrow
11-22-2007, 02:38 PM
Just my own observations. Having lived in more than one climate and under various conditions I have noticed a few things. Diet requirements do seem to change for climate and seasonal conditions.

Some examples:

People in the far North where vegetation is sparse or non-existent, live on an almost purely meat and fish diet. People in lush tropical areas live on a nearly if not exclusive vegetarian diet.

The people in the far north develop a very large amount of body fat, this seems to be a necessity to survive the harsh winters. People without this body fat are very unhealthy and prone to many health problems, at a much higher rate than their plump friends and relatives.

People in the tropics tend to be very active of lean body structure. Physically plump friends and relatives tend to be much more at risk for health problems than the skinny friends and relatives.

I also notice that a persons taste for different foods will change in accordance with climate. to a person living in the arctic seal blubber has a delicious flavor. Yet, if this same flavor were introduced to the tropics, the people would become violently ill over the taste and smell.

I have also seen and experienced the opposite. When a person is living under arctic conditions, fresh fruits and vegetables tend to be nauseous. When I am in far North climates the taste of tomatoes is very sickening to me.

Perhaps more than one variable needs to be investigated prior to deciding on an ideal diet for all people in all locations?
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IbnAbdulHakim
11-22-2007, 02:41 PM
^ so how does london fit into your observation uncle?

Assalamu Alaikum
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Woodrow
11-22-2007, 02:59 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by IbnAbdulHakim
^ so how does london fit into your observation uncle?

Assalamu Alaikum
In my personal observation the healthiest Londoners live on a diet that is low in fatty foods during most of the year, however, during the winter months they do best on high meaty fat conditions during the winter months. This is also reflected in the tastes of what tastes good.

I also notice London is extremely humid. I also notice that in the summer time fish dishes seem to taste the best along with cold vegetables.

Because of the climate I would suspect to find a person endowed with a somewhat generous layer of fatty tissue, would be the healthiest. However, the problem is that with modern foods it has become difficult to keep this at a healthy level and not become obese. Simply stick with the food in season, eat in moderation and a person seems to adapt very well to the climate they live in and form the appropriate body ratio of fat for the climate.
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IbnAbdulHakim
11-22-2007, 03:02 PM
^ lol jazakAllaahu khair.

I have done well in eating meat today then, as its winter, what a cold day it was also.

Assalamu Alaikum
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Woodrow
11-22-2007, 03:13 PM
I should have noted I am not a nutritionist and not a MD. Those are simply my observations of people in various places I have lived or visited. In my travels I have always felt best if I ate local in season foods. They also seem to taste best at those times. I think it would be an error for a person living in London to try to survive in the winter, on foods commonly served in Saudi Arabia in the summer. Vice versa would also be true.
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Malaikah
11-23-2007, 02:23 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by HunterMan
Now I would like to say that the Quran tells us to eat what is wholesome and good, saturated fat tissue comprise a major part of all animal foods such as meat, milk and eggs. As the fat is part of the whole animal we should consume it and not discard, dement or denature it from the way Allah (SWT) has made it by eating only lean meats, eating egg whites and discarding the yolks and by consuming fractionated low, skim or no fat milks which are man made perversions.
:sl:

So do you also eat the animals brain, liver, heart, eyeballs, stomach, intestines, pancreas, spleen and bone marrow? They are halal too you know...

I'm sorry but I just don't buy the argument that it is halal therefore we must eat it. Junk food is halal? Is it good for us in large amounts? No.
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syilla
11-23-2007, 03:19 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Malaikah
:sl:

So do you also eat the animals brain, liver, heart, eyeballs, stomach, intestines, pancreas, spleen and bone marrow? They are halal too you know...
Malaysian eat that :playing::hiding:

But usually the malay students avoid eating those because those was known as food that is bad for the brain...

I tried to avoid it as much as i can...but i won't say that i don't eat it. :nervous:
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HunterMan
11-23-2007, 06:01 AM
:sl: friends,

Woodrow your observations are exactly on point, I'm glad to see that your using you mind, most people believe anything people tell them, I'm not asking you to believe what I'm saying outright, but I am asking you to use your wonderful minds and think deeply and find out the truth for yourselves, so congratulations to you and to whoever else is thinking well. I would like to reply in detail about your observations now.

1. Yes a moderate level of body fat is essential to human health, body fat actuality regulates blood sugar, hormones and various other things essential for life and helps you stay healthy provided your body fat is at a moderate level, even women can't have children if their body fat is too low or possibly too high.

2. Varying your diet according to season is healthy.

3. Dr. Weston price who studied all sorts of healthy primitive tribes found the same thing, northerners ate mostly meat while people who lived in rain forests ate mostly fruits and they all showed splendid physical development. There is one thing however, they all had a strong dietary pull to foods containing fat and its soluble vitamins, which is why rain forest people sought organ meats, fatty bugs, birds and fish not just fruits. Here is a link from his book of tropical Indians, the links i will provide you with are a bit long so I suggest you read this post before exploring the links.http://journeytoforever.org/farm_lib...e/price14.html. Notice the wide palate and strait teeth of the non modernized Indians compared to the ones who ate the 'whitemans' food (sugar, refined white flour, alcohol etc.)

4. The latitude rule has exceptions, the African tribes studied lived in very hot climates but subsisted off mainly meat, milk and fish, they had splendid physiques, broad handsome faces and some stood 7 and a Half feet tall! They were very strong and always dominated the more vegetarian tribes in athletic feats, some tribes actually believed that their souls were in their liver and that the only way to accomplish complete spiritual and physical development was by eating animal liver, it was so sacred that they would only hold it with sticks and never touch it with their hands. Also some one named George V.Mann studied the Masai in the 50's, the Masai ate and drank a phenomenal amount of saturated fat yet they were found to posses no atherosclerosis and were found to be as fit as top level Olympic athletes, the Masai thought vegetable food was only cow food and not for people. heres a link.http://journeytoforever.org/farm_lib...ce/price9.html. remember to compare the healthy and natural fat eaters with beautiful facial development with the poor ones who were tempted with the white mans food.

5. Actually it is a fallacy that northerns are fatter to keep them warm, everyone knows that the Neanderthals lived in some of the coldest conditions known to man yet rather then being very fat they were very heavy boned and muscular, the reason is that fat just insulates heat but muscle actually generates heat, however the faces of people like the Inuit are padded with fat to protect the eyes and nose but generally their bodies are thick boned and muscular.http://journeytoforever.org/farm_lib...ce/price5.html

6. The observations of Dr. Price show that man can live and be prosperous on greatly varying diet, however the fat soluble vitamins were always found to be 10 times higher then the average American of his day, these fat soluble vitamins are the catalysts that allow optimal absorption and utilization of proteins and minerals which gave the traditional people their well developed faces and bodies.



So do you also eat the animals brain, liver, heart, eyeballs, stomach, intestines, pancreas, spleen and bone marrow? Said Malaikah. I deeply apologize for this misunderstanding, those parts you mentioned are the BEST parts of the animal, highly prized by natives, it was customary to eat organ meats and feed the muscle meats to their dogs. Organ meats are the so good for you and should be eaten regularly.

Did you know that brains are the absolute best source of Omega-3 fatty acids, eat brains and your own brain will develop. Other organs are also extremely rich in fat soluble vitamins and minerals.
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HunterMan
11-23-2007, 08:04 AM
:sl: good friends,


Theres been talk of eating animal organs, while most people aren't used to them, if they are prepared and cooked properly they are absolutely exotic and delicious, they are also extremely healthy and provide tremendous benefits, here are but a few good things they provide.


The composition of animal parts are made out of materials very similar to our own organic tissues and are highly bio-available to humans, therefore the consumption of a particular animal organ or material will effect the counterpart human organ and the body in general because it is not just rich, but it is literally made out of the particular material needed by certain organs, below is a scientific observation on how these materials would effect the human organism.




Brains

Brains are one of the best sources of omega-3 a fatty acid essential for brain development, so by eating brains your brain would develop technically making you smarter.

Eyes

Eyes contain much of the bodies zinc, and vitamin A in very large quantities, theses are needed for good sight so by eating eyeballs your own eyes would get the nutrients they need to function giving you better sight.

Heart

The Heart is the best source for co-enzyme Q10 if I am not mistaken, Q10 is essential for cardiovascular health, essential for the heart in particular, so giving your heart these nutrients it will work fine under stressful situations, this ensures heart health and also gives you courage because your heart won't pathologically palpate and won't explode or fail when you are in deadly combat with a killer gorilla from Michael Chritons novel 'Congo' (this species of gorilla was bread by ancient scientists from a strain of common mountain gorillas who were subjected to an extremely low fat diet and deprived of sunlight, they kill because of their insatiable hunger for fat and organs).

Liver

The Liver gives strength in many ways, two of them are:

1. Its high usable iron content, making your red blood cell volume increase which makes transport of oxygen more efficient so your cells are strong and wont fatigue due to excess carbon dioxide and lack of oxygen, if you have more endurance your stronger.

2. Liver is an excellent source of vitamin A which is essential for the synthesis of testosterone, this helps build muscle and bone mass and density.

3. Liver is also extremely rich in other minerals and vitamins and is one of the best foods for athletes and those who wish to acquire strength, optimal development and manliness.

Bones

Animal bones are made out of various macro and trace minerals, so when consumed in the form of bone soups or otherwise the exact minerals your own bones need will be fed by it.

Muscle

Animal muscle tissue is made of all the amino acids essential for human life and the protein structures of human muscle, so by eating an animals muscles you would have all the protein you need for muscle growth.
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HunterMan
11-24-2007, 02:31 PM
:sl: brothers and Sisters, Ladies and Gentlemen,

Before we continue our discussion I feel it is imperative in the highest degree to provide you inquiring folks with a more complete overview of Dr. Weston Price's research, below is a pretty good summary which is pleasantly lengthy so buckle down and prepare to read well and absorb the information as it is all I will include in this post, Bismillah.


Politically Incorrect: The Neglected Nutritional Research of Dr. Weston Price, DDS

By Dr. Stephen Byrnes

It seems that the more things change, the more they stay the same. With the advent of antibiotics in the 1930s, modern medicine has prided itself on its near total eradication of several deadly diseases:

* tuberculosis
* polio
* diphtheria

Modern medicine has a drug and a diagnostic test for just about everything and, because of this edifice of pharmacological technology, people are generally in awe of doctors and the medical profession.

Despite our amazing scientific advances - television, movies, the space shuttle, walking on the moon, etc. - we have gotten nowhere when it comes to chronic disease. Doctors cringe and cower when a patient with arthritis comes to see them.

The same goes for people afflicted with Alzheimer's, Parkinson's, cancer, lupus, multiple sclerosis, and AIDS: medical science, with all its technological wizardry (and overweening pride), has NO effective treatments or cures for any of these diseases. And the rates for these diseases keep climbing.

When it comes to CVD, for example, doctors may claim that they have reduced the mortality rates of people who've had heart attacks, but this is because science has the technology to keep people alive once they've had the heart attack. The risk and incidence of CVD, however, has only risen and worsened. Despite the pushing of low fat/cholesterol diets, blood thinning drugs, polyunsaturated oils, and calorie counting, the 20th century has not made a dent in the rates of CVD.

Things were not so bad back at the turn of the last century, but the situation was worsening enough to make one man take notice. Dr. Weston Price of Cleveland, Ohio, was a dentist in private practice who had a truly glorious and distinguished career.

He had taught the science to thousands at dental schools, authored technical papers and textbooks, and headed an incredible study on the role of root canals in promoting diseases of various types. (For those of you interested in reading more about this aspect of Dr. Price's work, you can check out the Price-Pottenger Nutrition Foundation's webpage at www.price-pottenger.org). Despite Price's amazing work, it has largely been forgotten and this is unfortunate, for in it is a treaure trove of nutritional information that can lead modern peoples to greater health and vitality, and awayfrom the scourge of chronic disease.

Dr. Price's Nutrition Studies

Price noticed that his patients were suffering more and more chronic and degenerative diseases. He also noticed that his younger patients had increasingly deformed dental arches, crooked teeth, and cavities. This definitely concerned him: he had not seen such things just ten or fifteen years ago.

Why was it happening now? Price also noticed a strong correlation between dental health and physical health: a mouth full of cavities went hand in hand with a body either full of disease, or generalized weakness and susceptibility to disease. In Price's time, tuberculosis was the major infectious illness, the White Scourge. He noticed that children were increasingly affected, the ones with the lousy teeth.

Dr. Price had heard rumors of native cultures where so-called primitive people lived happy lives, free of disease. He hit on an idea: why not go find these people and find out (1) if they really are healthy, and (2) if so, find out what they're doing to keep themselves healthy. Being rather well off financially, he and his wife started traveling around the world to remote locations. They were specifically looking for healthy peoples who had not been touched yet by civilization - at that time, such groups were still around.

Price's work is often criticized at this point for being biased. Critics claim that Price simply ignored native peoples that were not healthy, therefore, his data and conclusions about primitive diets are unfounded. These critics are missing the point and motivation for Dr. Price's work. Dr. Price was not interested in examining sick people because he'd seen enough of them in America.

Price wanted to find HEALTHY people, find out what made them so, and see if there were any patterns among these people. During his nine years of journeys, Price did indeed come across groups of primitives who were having problems for various reasons. Price noted these groups down, what appeared to be their difficulty, and then passed them over. Again, he was not interested in sick people. Price often found that the health problems were caused by food shortages (especially a lack of animal products), droughts, things people living off the land must face from time to time, or contact with white European civilization.

Dr. Price and his wife went just about everywhere in their journeys. They traveled to isolated villages in the Swiss alps, to cold and blustery islands off the coast of Scotland, to the Andes mountains in Peru, to several locations in Africa, to the Polynesian islands, to Australia and New Zealand, to the forests of northern Canada, and even to the Arctic Circle. In all, Price visited with fourteen groups of native peoples.

After gaining the trust of the village elders in the various places, Price did what came naturally: he counted cavities and physically examined them. Imagine his surprise to find, on average, less than 1% of tooth decay in all the peoples he visited!

He also found that these people's teeth were perfectly straight and white, with high dental arches and well-formed facial features. And there was something more astonishing: none of the peoples Price examined practiced any sort of dental hygiene; not one of his subjects had ever used a toothbrush!

For example, when Price visited his first people, isolated Swiss mountain villagers, he noticed right away that the children's teeth were covered with a thin film of green slime, yet they had no tooth decay. What a difference this was from the children in Ohio!

Dr. Price also noticed that, in addition to their healthy teeth and gums, all the people he discovered were hardy and strong, despite the sometimes difficult living conditions they had to endure. Eskimo women, for example, gave birth to one healthy baby after another with little difficulty.

Despite the Swiss children going barefoot in frigid streams, there had not been a single case of tuberculosis in any of them, despite exposure to TB. In general, Price found, in contrast to what he saw in America, no incidence of the very diseases that plague us moderns with our trash compactors and cellular phones: cancer, heart disease, diabetes, hemorrhoids, multiple sclerosis, Parkinson's, Alzheimer's, osteoporosis, chronic fatigue syndrome (it was called neurasthenia in Price's day), etc.

Dr. Price also noticed another quality about the healthy primitives he found: they were happy. While depression was not a major problem in Price's day, it certainly is today: ask any psychiatrist. While certain natives sometimes fought with neighboring tribes, within their own groups, they were cheerful and optimistic and bounced back quickly from emotional setbacks. These people had no need for antidepressants.

Lest you think Dr. Price made all of this up, he was sure to take along with him one modern invention that would forever chronicle his research and startling conclusions: a camera. Dr. Price and his wife took pictures - 18,000 of them. Many of the pictures are contained in Price's masterpiece Nutrition and Physical Degeneration. The pictures show native peoples from all over the world smiling wide as the Mississippi river, their perfect teeth shining bright.


What the people Ate

In addition to examining the natives, Dr. Price also gathered considerable data about their distinctive cultures and customs, and these descriptions fill many of the pages of his book. Price took great care to observe what these people were eating for he suspected the key to good health and good teeth was in good food.

He was surprised to find that, depending on the people in question and where they lived, each group ate very differently from the other.

For example, the Swiss mountain villagers subsisted primarily on unpasteurized and cultured dairy products, especially butter and cheese. Rye also formed an integral part of their diet. Occasionally, they ate meat (beef) as cows in their herds got older. Small amounts of bone broths, vegetables and berries rounded out the diet. Due to the high altitude, not much vegetation grew. The villagers would eat what they could in the short summer months, and pickle what was left over for the winter. The main foods, however, were full fat cheese, butter, and rye bread.

Gaelic fisher people of the Outer Hebrides ate no dairy products, but instead had their fill of cod and other sea foods, especially shell fish (when in season). Due to the poor soil, the only grain that could grow was oat, and it formed a major part of the diet. A traditional dish, one considered very important for growing children and expectant mothers, was cod's head stuffed with oats and mashed fish liver. Again, due to the extremely inhospitable climate, fruits and vegetables grew sparsely. Price noted that a young Gaelic girl reeled in puzzlement when offered an apple: she had never seen one!

Eskimo, or Innu, ate a diet of almost 100% animal products with hefty amounts of fish. Walrus and seal, and other marine mammals also formed an integral part of the diet. Blubber (fat) was consumed with relish. Innu would gather nuts, berries, and some grasses during the short summer months, but their diet was basically all meat and fat. Price noted that the Innu would usually ferment their meat before eating it. That is, they would bury it and allow it to slightly putrefy before consuming it. Innu would also eat the partially digested grasses of caribou by cutting open their stomachs and intestines.

The Maori of New Zealand, along with other South sea islanders, consumed sea food of every sort - fish, shark, octopus, sea worms, shellfish - along with fatty pork and a wide variety of plant foods including coconut and fruit.

African cattle-keeping tribes like the Masai consumed virtually no plant foods at all, just beef, raw milk, organ meats, and blood (in times of drought).

The Dinkas of the Sudan, whom Price claimed were the healthiest of all the African tribes he studied, ate a combination of fermented whole grains with fish, along with smaller amounts of red meat, vegetables, and fruit. The Bantu, on the other hand, the least hardy of the African tribes studied, were primarily agriculturists. Their diet consisted mostly of beans, squash, corn, millet, vegetables, and fruits, with small amounts of milk and meat. Price never found a totally vegetarian culture. Modern anthropological data support this: all cultures and peoples show a preference for animal foods and animal fat.

Hunter-gatherer peoples in Northern Canada, the Florida Everglades, the Amazon, and Australia, consumed game animals of all types, especially the organ meats, and a variety of grains, legumes, tubers, vegetables, and fruits when available.

Price noted that all peoples, except the Innu, consumed insects and their larvae. Obviously in more tropical areas, insects formed a more integral part of the diet. Price noted that: The natives of Africa know that certain insects are very rich in special food values at certain seasons, also that their eggs are valuable foods. A fly that hatches in enormous quantities in Lake Victoria is gathered and used fresh and dried for storage. They also use ant eggs and ants. Bees, wasps, dragonflies, beetles, crickets, cicadas, moths, and termites were consumed with zest also, particularly in Africa.

Price also noted that all cultures consumed fermented foods each day. Foods such as cheese, cultured butter, yogurt, or fermented grain drinks like kaffir beer (made from millet) in Africa, or fermented fish as with the Innu were an important part of native diets.

Curiously, all native peoples studied made great efforts to obtain seafood, especially fish roe which was consumed so that we will have healthy children. Even mountain dwelling peoples would make semiannual trips to the sea to bring back seaweeds, fish eggs, and dried fish. Shrimp, rich in both cholesterol and vitamin D, was a standard food in many places, from Africa to the Orient.

The last major feature of native diets that Price found was that they were rich in fat, especially animal fat. Whether from insects, eggs, fish, game animals, or domesticated herds, primitive peoples knew that they would get sick if they did not consume enough fat. Explorers besides Dr. Price have also found this to be true.

For example, anthropologist Vilhjalmur Stefansson, who lived for years among the Innu and Northern Canadian Indians, specifically noted how the Indians would go out of their way to hunt down older male caribou for they carried a 50 pound slab of back fat. When such animals were unavailable and Indians were forced to subsist on rabbits, a very lean animal, diarrhea and hunger would set in after about a week. The human body needs saturated fat to assimilate and utilize proteins and saturated animal fats contain high amounts of the fat soluble vitamins, as well as beneficial fatty acids with antimicrobial properties.

Of course, the foods that Price's subjects ate were natural and unprocessed. Their foods did not contain preservatives, additives, or colorings. They did not contain added sugar (though, when available, natural sweets like honey and maple syrup were eaten in moderation). They did not contain white flour or canned foods. Their milk products were not pasteurized, homogenized, or low fat. The animal and plant foods consumed were raised and grown on pesticide-free soil and were not given growth hormones or antibiotics. In short, these people always ate organic.

What the Samples Showed

Dr. Price was eager to chemically analyze the various foods these primitives ate. He was careful to obtain preserved samples of all types for analysis. Basically, the diets of these healthy peoples contained 10 times the amount of fat-soluble vitamins, and at least 4 times the amount of calcium, other minerals, and water soluble vitamins than Western diets at that time. No wonder these people were so healthy!

Because of the consumption of fermented and raw foods (including raw animal products), Price noted that native diets were rich in enzymes. Enzymes assist in the digestion of cooked foods.

Price noted that all peoples had a predilection and dietary pull towards foods rich in the fat-soluble vitamins. Price considered butter from pasture-fed cows, rich in these vitamins as well as minerals, to be the premiere health food. Fat-soluble vitamins are found in fats of animal origin, like butter, cream, lard, and tallow, as well as in organ meats.

And to dispel a common myth about native peoples, they did live long lives. Price took numerous photos of healthy primitives with heads full of gray hair. While we don't know exactly how old they were since they did not have calendars, they were, by all appearances, well past 60.

The Aborigines, for example, had a special society of the elderly. Obviously, if there were no old people among them, they would have had no need for such a group. Stefansson also reported great longevity among the Innu. It is true that death rates at younger ages were higher among some groups, but these mortalities were from the dangerous lifestyle these people lived, not from their diet. When you live in the Arctic Circle, for example, constantly fighting the elements, polar bears, ice flows, and leopard seals, you run the risk of an early death.

Another common misconception that modern nutrition holds towards native peoples and their high meat and fat diets is that they suffered from all sorts of degenerative diseases, especially osteoporosis and heart disease. The facts, however, do not support these contentions. Despite some studies done in the past few decades that tried to show the high rates of osteoporosis among the Innu were due to their high protein diet, other studies have shown no such thing.

The work of Drs. Herta Spencer and Lois Kramer conclusively proved that the protein/calcium loss theory to be nonsense. As it turns out, the negative studies on the Eskimo were done, not on Innu following their traditional diet, but among modernized Innu who had adopted modern eating habits and alcohol.

Alcoholism is a major factor in bone loss. Certainly, Dr. Price would have noted that bone loss was a problem if it had been, especially since he was examining teeth which are made of calcium, but he did not. While in Switzerland, Price got permission to dig up skeletal remains of some villagers: the bones were sturdy and strong. There are pictures in Price's book of these bones (and skulls showing mouths of perfect teeth free of decay). Price found no incidence of any major diseases, including heart disease.

This is not to say that native peoples did not have ANY problems for such is certainly not the case. Price learned of native remedies for a host of minor ills such as headaches, colds, wounds, and burns. But as far as degenerative diseases go, he found nothing.

This brings up the other major finding of Dr. Price's research: the effects of a modern diet on native peoples. To this, let us now turn.

The Roots of Disease

When Dr. Price visited the various primitive groups, he noted that white European civilization had begun making inroads into the areas where they lived. Some of the native peoples opted to leave and move into areas where it was more modern. Dr. Price also had the opportunity to compare white colonialists who were living alongside, or close to, the native peoples he was studying. What he found was what he thought he would find: disease and dental decay.

When people read Nutrition and Physical Degeneration, it often changes their lives because not only does it describe how healthy people look, feel, and eat, it also shows in painful detail what happens to those people when they abandon their native eating patterns and adopt modern foodstuffs.

The pictures Price took of natives and moderns on what Price disdainfully called the displacing foods of modern commerce are horrifying and stand in stark contrast to the pictures next to them of healthy, smiling natives. Nutrition writer and Price enthusiast Sally Fallon explains:

His photographs capture the suffering caused by these foodstuffs - chiefly rampant tooth decay. Even more startling, they show the change in facial development that occurred with modernization.

Parents who had changed their diets gave birth to children who no longer exhibited the tribal patterns. Their faces were more narrow, their teeth crowded, their nostrils pinched. These faces do not beam with optimism, like those of their healthy ancestors.

The photographs of Dr. Weston Price demonstrate with great clarity that the foods of modern commerce do not provide sufficient nutrients to allow the body to reach its full genetic potential - neither the complete development of the bones in the body and the head, nor the fullest expressions of the various systems that allow humankind to function at optimal levels -

* immune system
* nervous system
* digestion
* reproduction

And what were the offending foods that these unfortunate people consumed? Why everything we find on our grocer's shelves:
sugar
white flour
jams, jellies
cookies
condensed milk canned vegetables
pastries
refined grain products
margarine
vegetable oils

Price noted in several places that where modern foods had displaced traditional ones, suicide rates from dental caries were high. As most of us know, dental pain can be excruciating. With no drugs to ease their pain, and no dentist around to pull the dying tooth, people took their own lives to escape the torture.

White Europeans who lived in Africa had to leave periodically for health reasons. Children born there had to be sent away several times during their youth in order to survive. Such was the hardy effect of modern foods on these people. Native Africans, of course, had no such problems as long as they stayed on their native diets.

As noted earlier, the major infectious disease at Price's time was tuberculosis, the White Scourge. Price took several photographs of children, usually the children of either Europeans or natives who had adopted the modern foods before their children were born. They are disturbing in their depictions of suffering. Some of the children were too sick to be moved to better lighting for photographing. Others had pus visibly draining from their lymph glands and abscessed teeth.

Invariably, parents and children who had adopted modern foods were highly susceptible to tuberculosis and other degenerative diseases.

The native Hawaiians are a tragic example of this shift. Price did visit the Hawaiian islands on his journeys. He, of course, noted that Hawaiians who ate their traditional diet of coconut, fish, shellfish, taro, sweet potatoes, and fresh fruits were healthy and strong.

Today, however, the health of native Hawaiians is frightening. Obesity and diabetes are rampant. Because canned meats with nitrates in them are popular there, rates of stomach cancer are high (nitrates convert into carcinogens in the stomach - vitamin C halts the conversion).

Hawaiians today eat their fair share of sugar, soft drinks, vegetable oils, macaroni salad, white flour, and white rice. Coconut is sometimes eaten, but usually as part of a sugary snack. High blood pressure and heart attacks are common. Rates of Alzheimer's are elevated as well. Such is the effect of processed foods on a beautiful race of people.

In the last decade or so, however, a diet was proposed called the Hawaii Diet. Though it is a little low in fat for my tastes, it advocates a full return to traditional eating patterns: fish, taro, sweet potatoes, fresh fruit and vegetables, and, occasionally, pork (wild boar and feral pig are native to the islands). Specifically avoided are white rice, sugar, Spam, and processed foods in general.

The change is dramatic:

* people lose weight
* they have more energy
* their health problems dissipate or become more manageable
* Their teeth invariably improve as well

Price noticed this pattern also. If a native abandoned his ancestral eating habits in favor of modern foods, ill health and dental caries followed. If that same person switched back to the original eating pattern, however, health returned and the progression of dental decay stopped and reversed itself. This is perhaps the most uplifting aspect of Price's work: one can always reverse the trend; there is always hope.

Price accurately and ominously predicted that as Western man consumed more refined sugar and substituted vegetable oils for animal fats, disease would increase and reproduction would be more difficult. Today, some 25% of Western couples are infertile, and rates of cancer, diabetes, and heart disease have skyrocketed. Price was truly a modern Cassandra of Troy - prophesying the truth, but with no one listening.

A Return to Sanity, Please?

For many decades, Price's work has been buried and forgotten. Due to the efforts of the Price-Pottenger Nutrition Foundation, however, and the republication of Price's book for the public, that is fortunately starting to change.

Price's conclusions and recommendations were shocking for his time. He advocated a return to breast feeding when such a practice was discouraged by Western medicine. He urged parents to give their children cod liver oil every day. He considered fresh butter to be the supreme health food.

He warned against:

* pesticides
* herbicides
* preservatives
* colorings
* refined sugars
* vegetable oils

in short, all the things that modern nutrition and agriculture have embraced and promoted the last few decades. Price believed that margarine was a demonic creation. Let me tell you, with recommendations like these, he was REALLY unpopular! But the result of his research speaks for itself.

Knowing that his data flatly contradict virtually everything that politically correct nutrition holds,it is common to find his work belittled. If Price's studies are accurate, then the low-fat school must go the way of all flesh: into the graveyard. It is typical, therefore, for critics to say things like Price only superficially examined the peoples he encountered and made simplistic conclusions about their health.

Price is also accused of ignoring the nutritional deficiencies of the peoples he studied, as well as their high rates of infant mortality. Its also asserted that the modern foods that Price argued were these people's downfall were actually wholesome, but the primitive peoples overconsumed too much of them and didn't balance their diets correctly, hence their high rates of disease after adopting modern food stuffs.

Critics also claim that malnourished people usually don't have dental problems, so it is immaterial that the natives Price photographed had perfect teeth, or that the modernized ones had poor ones.

It is truly amazing how far some experts will go to defend the processed food industry and shaky nutritional hypotheses! Even a cursory look at Price's book will tell any rational person that Price did not superficially examine the people he studied. The detail about native customs, eating habits, and history of the various areas argues against any accusations of superficiality.

Additionally, Price was a physician with many years of experience; it is ludicrous to claim that he would make a superficial examination and reach simplistic conclusions about people's health.

If there were nutritional deficiencies, he would have noted them down, but no such descriptions exist for the simple reason that no such deficiencies existed. We know this to be true for, if we examine the modern descendants of Price's subjects, we find that they enjoy robust health and freedom from both dental caries and more chronic diseases, IF they have not abandoned their native diets.

It is true that high infant mortality rates existed, but only AFTER exposure to and adoption of the white European way of life. Further, if the foods of modern commerce were so wholesome, then they would have provided the nutrients within them to avert death, dental decay, and disease in the person who ate them, regardless of how they ingested them. Claims of unbalanced diets of modern foods is plain old doubletalk that does not stand the test of logic.

The last claim about dental condition not being related to the body's nutritional state is simply false. Numerous researchers have noted the clear and obvious connection between dental and bodily health. They all assert without hesitation that the health of the body is reflected quite accurately in the health of the teeth.

Dr. Price's Message

The obvious conclusion of Price's research is that for humanity to survive, it must eat better. And the foods it must eat must be whole, fresh, and unprocessed. More and more, people are beginning to see this and have been changing their eating patterns. But for the majority, however, the continuation of negative dietary habits will inevitably lead to decreased vitality, unhealthy children, in short, the degeneration of the human race. In this world of survival of the fittest, we need to take every opportunity to bolster our position or we risk going the way of the dodo bird: into extinction.

Besides, eating whole foods tastes good! The first happy lesson to be gleaned from traditional diets and Price's work is that good food can and should taste good. Its OK to saute vegetables and meats with butter. Its OK to consume whole(unpasteurized, non-homogenized) milk, meat with its fat, eggs, shrimp and lobster, and liver with onions and bacon. Its OK and healthy to eat home made soups made from gelatin-rich bone broths and sauces made from drippings and cream.

Eating whole foods is good for the environment as well. The building blocks of a whole foods dietare pesticide-free plant foods raised on naturally enriched soils, and healthy animals that live free to graze and manure the paddocks of their farms, as opposed to standing in a cramped stall, never seeing sunlight, being fed soybeans and corn meal, and being shot up with steroids and antibiotics.

Eating whole foods is better for the economy as well. Organic foods are usually raised by small farms. Each time you buy an organically raised plant or animal product, you are helping someone to earn a living. Isn't that preferable to giving your money to a multinational food company that mass produces its product, not caring about the health of the soil, the planet, the animals, or ourselves?

Finally, eating whole foods is healthier. We humans evolved eating certain food stuffs in certain ways. You did not see a caveman trimming the fat off of his meat - he ate the whole thing. You did not see a Swiss Alps villager eating low fat cheese - she ate the whole thing. You did not see Maori fishermen avoiding shellfish for fear of cholesterol - they ate the whole thing. Foods are packaged in ways that

Nature intended: they contain all the nutrients within themselves for optimal assimilation by our bodies. Eating whole foods insures us the highest amount of nutrients food has to offer. Tampering with them is ill advised.

Our Opportunity

Westerners live in countries where food is readily available, unlike other parts of the world where people routinely starve or are malnourished. Further, we live with a choice between two ways of eating: the way of whole foods, and the way of processed, new fangled junk. With such a privilege, we owe it to ourselves and our children to choose the way of life: the way of whole foods. By making this decision, we can stem the tide of chronic disease that threatens to consume our bodies and minds. Let us make that decision and embrace the ways of our ancestors. It is only by turning to the wisdom of traditional diets that we can find our biological salvation.






I hope you had the fortitude to read all this but if you haven't don't worry just read a portion and take a break then read the rest later :sl:
Reply

HunterMan
11-27-2007, 08:16 AM
:sl: brothers and sisters,

Here is just another study confirming the wisdom of traditional peoples food choices, particularly their preference for fatty animal foods, (organs, fish, butter , cream etc).

Researchers at the University of Cambridge School of Clinical Medicine in Britain, have found that naturally high levels of testosterone have tremendous benefits in terms of heart health and disease prevention, says them 'Men in the upper 25 percent of natural testosterone levels had a 41 percent lower risk of dying from heart attack, stroke and other cardiovascular conditions, cancer and all other causes, compared to men with the lowest levels...'

The best way to maintain magnificent leveles of testosterone is by eating a diet rich in saturated fat and cholesterol, low fat diets have been shown to reduce testosterone output. Also by consuming saturated fat and limiting excessive carbs you also increase your output of Growth Hormone which keeps you young and strong.

The pharmaceutical companies don't want you to know this so they can sell their extremely expensive and dangerous synthetic hormones to poor enfeebled people who were misled to adopt a low fat diet.

Links:

Study
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20071126/...dPyYRpWE9a24cA

Cholesterol and Testosterone,
http://www.cholesterol-and-health.co...-Hormones.html

Eat animal fat and you will become strong and capable, inshallah.
Reply

Noor 13
11-27-2007, 02:26 PM
:sl:
I do absolutely agree that low-fat diets are nonsense. But I am a little bit concerned about the fact that in your posts only saturated fats are mentioned as being good. There have been many studies and trials that saturated fats are for sure involved in the development of atherosclerosis and myocardial infarction. Your articles do prove that it is good to eat saturated fats but these articles are not form medical journals with high impact. I am a doctor myself and I know that many many diseases are happening because if a wrong diet.
Saturated fats might not be bad per se but people have lost the sense of moderation. In times of junk food nobody cares to cook anymore.
You can not compare people living in nature physically hard working with people here having a sedentary life style.
As for meat and animal fats. In the book the Medicine of the prophet from Ibn Qayimm al-Jawziyya it is mentioned that the prophet Mohammad (saws) used to eat meat only every 40 days. In fact he warned that the daily eating of meat can lead to addiction as alcohol does.
so Moderation is the key
Reply

HunterMan
11-27-2007, 03:20 PM
:sl: dear sister Noor,

I can see that your mind is open and that you are a real searcher for the truth, I was the same myself, which led me to discard the demented dogma spouted out of the media who certainly have a corporate hand filing their pockets.

Your concerns are genuine and I will bring you peer reviewed research from the worlds most prestigious health and medical journals that shows no link between saturated fat and CVD of any kind, such research is intentionally ignored by the media, other times its distorted to suit the powerful vegetable oil companies.

What they say about polyunsaturated oils and their health benefits is from fraudulent research and is false.

Humans have never consumed significant quantities of polyunsaturated vegetable oil since humanity began. The amount of saturated fat eaten during the last century has decreased slightly, the amount of polyunsaturated oils has increased 400% with a concurrent increase in disease.

Also I don't eat meat that frequently either, but the prophet (PBUH) used to like eating butter, cheese, ghee and milk and other sources of fat soluble vitamins especially when mixed with sugary carbs like dates which interestingly enough slows down its conversion to blood glucose and its related insulin spike, this helps in the prevention of diabetes.

I will send you the exact research tomorrow if I can inshalla, have a good day.

I do strongly suggest you purchase this book which will change the way you view saturated fat and cholesterol. http://www.amazon.com/Great-Choleste.../dp/1411694759
Reply

Noor 13
11-27-2007, 03:42 PM
:sl:
I was just wondering one thing. Black seed oil which was praised by the Prophet Mohammad(saws) to be cure for everything except death consists to almost 60% of linoleic acid a polyunsaturated fatty acid.
So I think that even unsaturated acids were used at that time and they are still useful and not all research done on it is fraudulent I think.
I did myself research work in a lab in Canada/BC in the field of Nutrition working with flax-seed and fish oil on atherosclerosis and these oils do have benefits on it. And I did honest research believe me.
But as I said before I am not against saturated fats either I just think a wise combination is useful.:sunny:
:w:
Reply

Noor 13
11-27-2007, 04:28 PM
:sl:
Here are some links for articles from the lab I used to work in
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/en...ubmed_RVDocSum
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/en...ubmed_RVDocSum
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/en...ubmed_RVDocSum
:sl:
Reply

HunterMan
11-28-2007, 07:27 AM
:sl:and Good Day to you all,

I have gathered as many scientific studies as I could regarding cholesterol and saturated fat and how they aren't related to the diseases they are accused of.
But before that I would like to thank you sister Noor for the links you sent and I would like to apologize to you, for I failed to express my stance regarding polyunsaturated fat accurately, so please allow me to clarify.
What I meant was that Unnatural and processed Polyunsaturated fatty acids are bad for you, naturally occurring polyunsaturated fatty acids contain Omega-3, Omega-6, Omega-9 and Conjugated fatty acids all of which are important for health. Eating small amounts of such substances from natural sources such as brain, fish and seeds is alright. The problem occurs when they are processed especially at high heats, polyunsaturated fats are extremely sensitive and when processed improperly they become highly rancid, the number of free radicals goes through the roof and they take on many terrible properties, this occurs in unnaturally processed margarines, soybean oils, corn oils etc, those should be avoided at all costs.

The studies that I collected are as follows:

http://dcnutrition.com/news/Detail.CFM?RecordNumber=668
This website sums up most of the studies but since I wanted to verify what they said I tracked down the studies and posted them below. These studies are quite technical so I've included the conclusion of each study to save time and effort.

The Journal of American Medical Association

The Multiple Risk Factor Intervention Trial (MRFIT)
Conclusion: By reducing saturated fat, cholesterol and smoking 'Mortality from coronary heart disease and from all causes was not significantly different among the two groups (special and control group)'
http://www.nhlbi.nih.gov/resources/d...ions/mrfit.htm

Independence of serum lipid levels and dietary habits. The Tecumseh study
Conclusion: 'Serum cholesterol and triglyceride values were not positively correlated with selection of dietary constituents' this means that the cholesterol you eat doesn't effect the cholesterol circulating in your blood.
http://jama.ama-assn.org/cgi/content...ct/236/17/1948

Low-Fat Dietary Pattern and Risk of Colorectal Cancer
Low-Fat Dietary Pattern and Risk of Invasive Breast Cancer
Low-Fat Dietary Pattern and Risk of Cardiovascular Disease
Conclusion: 'Women assigned to this eating strategy (low fat) did not appear to gain protection against breast cancer, colorectal cancer, or cardiovascular disease.'
http://jama.ama-assn.org/cgi/content...urcetype=HWCIT
http://jama.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/abstract/295/6/629
http://jama.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/abstract/295/6/655


The Framingham Heart Study
(I could only find excriptis from the site bellow)
Framingham follies
Conclusion:'With one exception there was no discernible association between reported diet intake and serum cholesterol level in the Framingham Diet Study Group. The one exception was a weak negative association between caloric intake and serum cholesterol level in men. [As to] coronary heart disease–was it related prospectively to diet. No relationship was found.'
http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/2...ngham-follies/

The European Heart Journal

The low fat/low cholesterol diet is ineffective
Conclusion: 'The commonly-held belief that the best diet for the prevention of coronary heart disease is a low saturated fat, low cholesterol is not supported by the available evidence from clinical trials. In the primary prevention, such diets do not reduce the risk of myocardial infarction or coronary or all cause mortality.'
http://www.omen.com/corr.html


The American Journal of Clinical Nutrition

Dietary fats, carbohydrate, and progression of coronary atherosclerosis in postmenopausal women
Conclusion: 'In postmenopausal women with relatively low total fat intake, a greater saturated fat intake is associated with less progression of coronary atherosclerosis, whereas carbohydrate intake is associated with a greater progression.'
http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/full/80/5/1175

If you would like more studies I could try to compile some more inshallah.
Have a nice day everyone.:thumbs_up
Reply

Noor 13
11-28-2007, 08:34 AM
:sl:brother HunterMan

JazakAllah for the studies you listed. :thumbs_up
I do apologize as well for misunderstanding you before. I am completely on your site if it comes to processed polyunsaturated fats.
I always appreciate discussions like this
Jazak Allah khair

:sl:Noor
Reply

HunterMan
11-28-2007, 09:13 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Noor 13
:sl:brother HunterMan

JazakAllah for the studies you listed. :thumbs_up
I do apologize as well for misunderstanding you before. I am completely on your site if it comes to processed polyunsaturated fats.
I always appreciate discussions like this
Jazak Allah khair

:sl:Noor
Your most welcome:)
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