Italy: Pakistani man sentenced to 30 years in jail for daughter's 'honour killing'

[Amadeus85]

Italy: Pakistani man sentenced to 30 years in jail for daughter's 'honour killing'

Brescia, 13 Nov. (AKI) - A Pakistani man in Italy, Mohammed Saleem, and two male relatives, have been sentenced to 30 years in jail in the northern Italian town of Brescia for murdering his daughter, Hina Saleem.

Hina's maternal uncle was also implicated in the crime and received a sentence of two years and eight months for helping to conceal her body.

In what has been termed an 'honour killing' the Pakistani girl was allegedly killed because she had "dishonoured" her family and refused an arranged marriage.

Hina (photo), dressed in western clothes, wore make up, worked in a pizzeria in the northern town of Sarezzo and lived with her Italian boyfriend. She was found with her throat slit buried in the garden of her family home with her head facing Mecca in August 2006.

Her father Mohammed confessed to her slaying.

When the sentence was announced in the court on Tuesday, Hina's mother broke down and was taken by ambulance to a local hospital.

The case shocked Italy and sparked a debate about the integration of Muslims in the predominantly Roman Catholic country.

http://www.adnkronos.com/AKI/English...1.0.1548287210

[wilberhum]

I guess not everyone agrees on what honour is.

[Tania]

The real debate is the moral values of today society. The catholics has big issues with the family life.

[Ummu Sufyaan]

:sl:
Islamic Point of veiw on honour killings
:sl:

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[Tania]

I am cautious to say anything about honour killing or forced marriage (both convicted by me) but i am very sure (100%) that italian man (roman-catholic)don't have the right to be with a woman (live with her) outside of marriage. At least according with the religious teachings.

[Whatsthepoint]

I am cautious to say anything about honour killing or forced marriage (both convicted by me) but i am very sure (100%) that italian man (roman-catholic)don't have the right to be with a woman (live with her) outside of marriage. At least according with the religious teachings.

I am a former catholic and I think catholic couples are allowed to live together outside of marriage. They aren't allowed to have premaritial sex though.
I am also sure that a vast majority of catholics had lived and had had sex with their partners before they got married..

[tomtomsmom]

That is seriously twisted.

[Umar001]

Oh man, what did the parent expect? Bring the children up with a set value and morals and then expect them to conform to others at the click of your fingers.

Ajeeb

[Whatsthepoint]

That's one of the main problems with immigration - immigrants acting according to the laws of their homeland or their religion instead of the country they live in. That's suppossed to be against Islam, right?

[Umar001]

That's one of the main problems with immigration - immigrants acting according to the laws of their homeland or their religion instead of the country they live in. That's suppossed to be against Islam, right?

You mean honour killings are legal in Pakistan? :eek:

[Whatsthepoint]

You mean honour killings are legal in Pakistan? :eek:

No. They're quite common though.

[Umar001]

Yea, it's all this cultural stuff, argh, how mankind is amazing! Even the highest percieveable authority, in my view, a religion, cannot make man conform and give up his own ways.

I mean if anything was going to make people leave habits you would have thought it'd be the threat of the worst possible torture, hell.

[NobleMuslimUK]

Pakistanis are the worst representation of Islam with their backwards mentalities and double standards, and they follow the worst schools of thoughts full of innovations and shirk. May Allah guide us all. Ameen.

[Pure Imaan]

I was watching a show about honour killings whereby a bengali girl met up with a bengali guy, his name Raj (I forgot the girl's name), they were sitting in the library I think and when they were about to leave, the girl spotted her father and her brother and she got worried, but the guy Raj walked away as fast as he could. Then, I think the following day or the next couple of days the bengali girl rang Raj and told him she loved him.

Then the girl's brother rang Raj's home phone and Raj's mother picked it up and the girl's brother threatnend the family because he found out about his sister and her boyfriend.

The next day the girl's brother and his friends threw petrol bombs on Raj's house and they ran away. The fire spread quickly and Raj had a big family mashallah, I think 4 or 5 brothers and sisters, they all alhumdullilah managed to escape the house, but the youngest sister she was 5 years old died, she got burnt to death, the hosipital said that she didn't feel any pain becuase the fire had destroyed the pain receptors in her body.

The guy's friends went to jail but the actual guy (the girl's brother) ran away to Bangladesh where he was given a hero's welcome. I felt so sorry for the little girl's mother, she was crying soo much, May Allah (swt) give them peace and help them through this ordeal.

What a world we live in, it is heartbreaking, even when we have the Qu'ran, Allah's words, the sunnah of the beloved Prophet Muhammed (pbuh), his example, all we have to do is live as the Prophet (pbuh) did and implement the word's of Allah (swt) then inshallah we will all become better muslims, what more do we need, Oh Allah (swt) help us all to realise the importance of Islam, help us to realise death is only around the corner, that we have very little time, inshallah we will all become better muslims, have good intentions, carry out out prayers, increase our knowledge, strengthen our imaan, remain patient and steadfast in times of hardship, inshallah we will all enter jannah al Fudrous, inshallah, ameen.

I watched this show on Sky Digital, channel 115, it was called 'Honour Killings'

[Amadeus85]

To be clear, this act happens in very conservative societies,no matter what religion is, for example it hapenned in Sicily even in XX century

[Tania]

I am a former catholic and I think catholic couples are allowed to live together outside of marriage. They aren't allowed to have premaritial sex though.
I am also sure that a vast majority of catholics had lived and had had sex with their partners before they got married..

Should be avoided:
"It is quite possible to imagine other forms of relationship and cohabitation between the sexes, but none of these, despite some people's contrary opinion, offers a real juridical alternative to matrimony, but rather a weakening of it"
AND
"For some time now the family institution has been under repeated attack. These attacks are all the more dangerous and insidious since they ignore the irreplaceable value of the family based on marriage. They have reached the point of proposing false alternatives to the family and of calling for legislative recognition of them. But when laws, which should be at the service of the family, a fundamental good for society, turn against it, they acquire alarming destructive power. "

Source: http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/jo...family_en.html


See, exactly what i wrote above. Catholics has serious issues relating family life because today society its aproving relations outside of marriage. In this days the cohabitation begin to be recognize here even in the bank field (taking loan together which could never been done before).

[islamirama]

Pakistanis are the worst representation of Islam with their backwards mentalities and double standards, and they follow the worst schools of thoughts full of innovations and shirk. May Allah guide us all. Ameen.

Correction: Desi (paki/indian/bengali/etc) who follow their culture are one of the worst representatives of Islam. They follower their clutural practices which are based more on hindu culture and innovation then Islam. The school of thoughts are not innovated and shirkful over there, school of thought is fine and with Islam. The innovations whether introduced to these school of thoughts or just part of their culture (and so they think its part of Islam too) or just out of this world.

On a side note: Honor killing is something that is carried out and done in all of Asia (including orientals and other nationalities) and Middle East, regardless of their religion. It's a cultural phenomenon.

another side not: article states she wore western clothes/make up (meaning she was pretty modern/liberal) AND she had an Italian boyfriend she was living with. Apparently the parents failed to provide a proper islamic upbringing for her to go down that path, therefore parents should blame themselves first before going attacking her.

[Khattab]

Deserved punishment for her father, but what has her facing Mecca got anything to do with the story?

[barney]

30 years, yeah, nice balanced sentence. Hope he hates every second of it.

Killing for mixing with Kuffar and not veiling up!
No compulsion in religion.

[Tania]

Deserved punishment for her father, but what has her facing Mecca got anything to do with the story?

In this way they wanted to point out its a "honour killing" made by a muslim. :-[

[MuhammadRizan]

i'm just soo curious where this 'Honour Killing' came from...that report try to imposed it's like islamic concept or something...

[Khattab]

its cultural and found throughout many countries, nothing at all to do with Islam anyone who thinks so is ignorant

[Khattab]

30 years, yeah, nice balanced sentence. Hope he hates every second of it.

Killing for mixing with Kuffar and not veiling up!
No compulsion in religion.

I highly doubt that was the reason she was killed, if you knew the culture it is to do with the "honour" of the family and there reputation so dont try and twist it and make it look like Islam is to blame because however much you mate hate the fact Islam is in no way linked.

[Jayda]

30 years, yeah, nice balanced sentence. Hope he hates every second of it.

Killing for mixing with Kuffar and not veiling up!
No compulsion in religion.

hola,

i don't think that is a very fair thing to say... child abuse can happen in any society or culture, although it make take different forms. the people here are muslims too and they are very against this for the same reasons most of us are... it is murder and insane.

i wonder if it would be possible for countries where this is a problem to do more with schools and police involvement so that kids could have someone to talk to if they feel like they are in danger at home... this is all part of the entire child abuse problem

que Dios te bendiga

[Bittersteel]

even I am getting worried.we are getting a very bad reputation.Europeans should be clear to Muslims,"in our country do what we do".
BTW,doesn't honour killing of men also occur?

[Chechnya]

even I am getting worried.we are getting a very bad reputation.Europeans should be clear to Muslims,"in our country do what we do".
?

whats that then?

drink, drugs and rock and roll?

there is no set european way of living and you get criminals from all backgrounds - this guy was just a criminal and he got locked up for it

BTW,doesn't honour killing of men also occur

not as much, its a lot harder to kill a man and as we can see with these types of stories, these men are cowards

[snakelegs]

even I am getting worried.we are getting a very bad reputation.Europeans should be clear to Muslims,"in our country do what we do".
BTW,doesn't honour killing of men also occur?

yes it does. i knew a guy whose friend killed a man who had committed a wrong against his family that happened before he was born! (they were pashtuns).
but i've never heard of it happening in europe.

[Whatsthepoint]

whats that then?

drink, drugs and rock and roll?

:mmokay::hmm:

[wilberhum]

whats that then?

drink, drugs and rock and roll?

Just like beating and killing women are the culture of some other group. :hiding:

Oh did I mention killing school children?

[Bittersteel]

off-topic somewhat related question:I am curious why so many Muslim women marry Non-Muslim men.
Is it because Non-Muslim men>Muslim men in all terms?

drink, drugs and rock and roll?

those are quite modern things;there's more to European culture than them.

I was watching a show about honour killings whereby a bengali girl met up with a bengali guy, his name Raj (I forgot the girl's name), they were sitting in the library I think and when they were about to leave, the girl spotted her father and her brother and she got worried, but the guy Raj walked away as fast as he could. Then, I think the following day or the next couple of days the bengali girl rang Raj and told him she loved him.

Then the girl's brother rang Raj's home phone and Raj's mother picked it up and the girl's brother threatnend the family because he found out about his sister and her boyfriend.

The next day the girl's brother and his friends threw petrol bombs on Raj's house and they ran away. The fire spread quickly and Raj had a big family mashallah, I think 4 or 5 brothers and sisters, they all alhumdullilah managed to escape the house, but the youngest sister she was 5 years old died, she got burnt to death, the hosipital said that she didn't feel any pain becuase the fire had destroyed the pain receptors in her body.

The guy's friends went to jail but the actual guy (the girl's brother) ran away to Bangladesh where he was given a hero's welcome. I felt so sorry for the little girl's mother, she was crying soo much, May Allah (swt) give them peace and help them through this ordeal.

what this guy Raj Muslim?Or an Indian Bengali?really weird you know interfaith marriages along with secularism and liberalism is increasing in Bangladesh.

[Chechnya]

Just like beating and killing women are the culture of some other group. :hiding:

Oh did I mention killing school children?

oh and which culture is that then? ive never heard of it :D

and do you really want me to start bringing stats on the number of deaths and rape of women in america?
how about the gang violence? the drink culture? or maybe the widespread sexual diseases?

or how about the college massacres? columbine? virginia tech?

god bless america, hey? :rollseyes

[SophiaCroft]

I'm Confused that doesn't the girl is also to blame for what she did. Cause it was wrong. She wasn't a kid who didn't know what wrong or right. She was grown up. Also that If some girls who does the same after knowing its wrong what should she be given as punishment?

[Suomipoika]

I'm Confused that doesn't the girl is also to blame for what she did. Cause it was wrong. She wasn't a kid who didn't know what wrong or right. She was grown up. Also that If some girls who does the same after knowing its wrong what should she be given as punishment?

Nothing.

Some people might consider it as morally wrong, but its not illegal in Italy to live with a man in a relationship outside the marriage against your parents wishes.

[Mik'hael]

Interesting, that Fatwa posted about Honor killings, from Islam-qa.com was submitted by me, its good to see its being put to good use.

Honor killings commited by 'muslims' seem to get the most coverage.

There was a case just a few months ago, here in England about an Honor killing in a Sikh family. It also happens amongst Hindus.
Although many, including Anti-Islamists seem to use this as a case to attack Islam and its treatment of women. :rollseyes

[AhlaamBella]

Honor killings commited by 'muslims' seem to get the most coverage.

There was a case just a few months ago, here in England about an Honor killing in a Sikh family. It also happens amongst Hindus.
Although many, including Anti-Islamists seem to use this as a case to attack Islam and its treatment of women. :rollseyes

hear hear! It winds me up. If a 'muslim' person commits a crime, the press makes sure we know his religion. But if a christian person (for example) commits a crime, all the press tells us is he is 'white'.

[wilberhum]

hear hear! It winds me up. If a 'muslim' person commits a crime, the press makes sure we know his religion. But if a christian person (for example) commits a crime, all the press tells us is he is 'white'.

Could you provide us with an example?

[Whatsthepoint]

hear hear! It winds me up. If a 'muslim' person commits a crime, the press makes sure we know his religion. But if a christian person (for example) commits a crime, all the press tells us is he is 'white'.

If a catholic killed his daughter and buried her with her head facing Rome (or whatever) I'm sure the press would mention he is a catholic.

[Dawud_uk]

http://www.adnkronos.com/AKI/English...1.0.1548287210

assalaamu alaykum,

the man is a jahil (ignorant) fool, what his daughter was doing was wrong but killing her is worse and now how can she repent?

guess to this man, his own and his daughters well being in this world and the next world was no where near as important as some silly cultural sense of honour.

what is honourable truly is what is honourable in the sight of Allah and what is dishonourable truly is what is dishonourable in the sight of Allah.

assalaamu alaykum,
Abu Abdullah

[Malaikah]

If a catholic killed his daughter and buried her with her head facing Rome (or whatever) I'm sure the press would mention he is a catholic.

I doubt it. Who cares which direction the girl was buried in? It is of no consequence to the story at all. It was only mentioned to point subtly point to the fact that the family was Muslim.

The man committed the crime. Not his religion. Religion should be left out.

[niler]

am hearing it 4 d first time..HONOUR KILLING
Its sooo sad.. y kill when even islam has not prescribed such a punishment?

[niler]

am hearing it 4 d first time..HONOUR KILLING
Its sooo sad.. y kill when even islam has not prescribed such a punishment?

[AhlaamBella]

If a catholic killed his daughter and buried her with her head facing Rome (or whatever) I'm sure the press would mention he is a catholic.

I'm speaking of normal crimes not psychotic-one-in-a-milion-occurences

[jouju]

this has nothin 2do with islam, so y mention religion?

[wilberhum]

oh and which culture is that then? ive never heard of it :D

and do you really want me to start bringing stats on the number of deaths and rape of women in america?
how about the gang violence? the drink culture? or maybe the widespread sexual diseases?

or how about the college massacres? columbine? virginia tech?

god bless america, hey? :rollseyes

Gee, I guess we need your Chechen heros to help us out.

[Whatsthepoint]

I'm speaking of normal crimes not psychotic-one-in-a-milion-occurences

When a person commits a "normal" crime, the press usually state his nationality and skin colour, not religion. When a muslim Pakistani commits a normal, non-religious crime, he is referred to as a Pakistani not as a muslim.

[Malaikah]

Honour killings are not a religious crime! (How a crime can be religious is beyond me...)

[AHMED_GUREY]

Sad story and it has nothing to do with Islam, the direction towards Makkah is just a fabrication to sensationalize the article and it's story, the person doesn't even state where this info comes from

imo it's pure nonsense, as if the digger(most likely a non muslim Italian) digging that body knew which direction Makkah was in the first place loool yawn give me a break

regarding the unfortunate incident the girl could have returned to the right path later on in life, i know many brothers who strayed and did worser things than the poor girl yet nobody killed them for the sake of honour (evendo humiliation descended upon the families they hailed from) and today there repenting masha-allah and advising young brothers like me but this Father's end goal was ''pride'' and not serving Allah swt

btw calling one group ''worst representation'' or a ''disgrace'' is sinister and in my opinion stuff like that shouldn't be allowed on this forum, i've seen this on turkish-related topics aswell, it's wrong!

[Pygoscelis]

The basic concept of "honor" killing escapes me. Is killing itself not dishonorable?

[AHMED_GUREY]

Out of sight is out of Mind( in this case out of the eyes of the community)

there is also a alternative; Banishing a Daughter or Son and cutting all ties

^if a person's pride is to important then i prefer the alternative

[Tania]

The basic concept of "honor" killing escapes me. Is killing itself not dishonorable?

We had this too in the past centuries (in France). Until the XVII century when Louis XIV banned them the cheated husband in love could ask the other man to duel (sword or pistol).

[Chechnya]

Gee, I guess we need your Chechen heros to help us out

.

Only God can help you now :thumbs_up

[Malaikah]

The basic concept of "honor" killing escapes me. Is killing itself not dishonorable?

Yeh, exactly. Go figure. :-\

[AhlaamBella]

When a person commits a "normal" crime, the press usually state his nationality and skin colour, not religion. When a muslim Pakistani commits a normal, non-religious crime, he is referred to as a Pakistani not as a muslim.

I don't know what news you watch.
Are you saying I'm lying?

[wilberhum]

I don't know what news you watch.
Are you saying I'm lying?

What news do you watch? :skeleton:

I seldom, if ever see religion being mentioned if it has no relevance.

[cihad]

that guy is dumb...he lets her grow up in a western society and expects her to be "a good muslim" just with the click of his fingers

[AhlaamBella]

What news do you watch? :skeleton:

I seldom, if ever see religion being mentioned if it has no relevance.

I watch BBC, channel 4, ITV and sky. Butur not going to believe me because we never seem to agree

[wilberhum]

I watch BBC, channel 4, ITV and sky. Butur not going to believe me because we never seem to agree

I go to the BBC Web sight daily.

Would you please let me know when " a 'muslim' person commits a crime, the press makes sure we know his religion" and his religion has nothing to do with the crime?

I have never seen that before.

Thanks in advance
Wilber

[Tania]

I go to the BBC Web sight daily.

Would you please let me know when " a 'muslim' person commits a crime, the press makes sure we know his religion" and his religion has nothing to do with the crime?

I have never seen that before.

Thanks in advance
Wilber

We had this type of news in the case of a new religion. I am not sure which one ( i forgot the name) but in this religion its forbidden to accept blood transfusions and in this way 2 childrens died. May be more but i remember only about them and the press blamed the religion and parents ignorance for the tragedy :(

[wilberhum]

We had this type of news in the case of a new religion. I am not sure which one ( i forgot the name) but in this religion its forbidden to accept blood transfusions and in this way 2 childrens died. May be more but i remember only about them and the press blamed the religion and parents ignorance for the tragedy :(

So religion is the center of the story. Why would you leave it out?

[AhlaamBella]

I go to the BBC Web sight daily.

Would you please let me know when " a 'muslim' person commits a crime, the press makes sure we know his religion" and his religion has nothing to do with the crime?

I have never seen that before.

Thanks in advance
Wilber

Last time I checked "sight" as in a web"sight" was spelt "site".

Anyway, I shall inform you immediately as ur the only one on my mind when I watch the news :mmokay:

[Whatsthepoint]

We had this type of news in the case of a new religion. I am not sure which one ( i forgot the name) but in this religion its forbidden to accept blood transfusions and in this way 2 childrens died. May be more but i remember only about them and the press blamed the religion and parents ignorance for the tragedy :(

Jehovah's witnesses are hardly a new religion..
Did they mention their religion only in this particular case or whenever a jehovah's witness had done something wrong?

[wilberhum]

Last time I checked "sight" as in a web"sight" was spelt "site".

Anyway, I shall inform you immediately as ur the only one on my mind when I watch the news :mmokay:

Spelt is defined as “a hardy wheat”: a hardy variety of wheat of inferior quality, sometimes grown in mountainous regions

Did you mean “spelled”? :p

But any way, spelling aside, I will look for your notification.

[AhlaamBella]

Spelt is defined as “a hardy wheat”: a hardy variety of wheat of inferior quality, sometimes grown in mountainous regions

Did you mean “spelled”? :p

But any way, spelling aside, I will look for your notification.

In the UK its acceptable to spell "spelt" the way I did. :)

Ill keep you in mind don't worry

[Muezzin]

'Spelt' and 'spelled' are the same word, guys. 'Spelt' is the British way of spelling it, and 'spelled' the American.

And don't start this Spelling and Grammar Nazi stuff, or you'll all be calling me Der Fuhrer. :p

Pakistani man sentenced to 30 years in jail for daughter's 'honour killing

Good. It's murder.

[chosen]

agreed..but they no longer happen on any large scale in the christian community....they are still extremely common in islamic countries..and it is the goverments that are to blame..where are the laws, the law enforcement...and most importantly the places for people to take shelter in when they fear for there life..

[Bittersteel]

yep,I read somewhere the EU was planning to to create a task force to tackle honour killings.is that true?have they formed one yet?

[Muezzin]

yep,I read somewhere the EU was planning to to create a task force to tackle honour killings.is that true?have they formed one yet?

Task force? The EU don't really operate that way.

Unless you're talking about Directives, which are basically the EU saying to all member states 'hey, you all have to draw up laws that make X illegal, or we'll sanction the crikey out of you'.

I haven't heard anything about the EU and honour killings though. Hmm.

[Bittersteel]

BBC article man I remember it.It concerned about police forces across EU nations.Plus UK got special consulates in Pakistan and Bangladesh to rescue women who are forced to marry back at home.

I wonder why people immigrate to Non Muslim nations when they know what might happen.

[chosen]

What is needed both in islamic countries where this is common as well as in neighborhoods where there is a high population of muslim immigrants is outreach programs..there should be someplace safe for both women and men who fear they are in danger...You can agree or disagree with what people do..but we are all human and all make bad decisions sometimes..especailly when we are young..beyond that the issue of forced marriage needs to be addressed and there needs to be safe havens for people of both sexes to go to escape..
I remember about 4 or 5 years ago in New York a 15 year old girl was picked up off the street in a wedding dress..she was running and crying..when the police questioned her she said her parents were forcing her to marry her 36 or 37 year old cousin...the girl was put into foster care and her parents jailed..It is that simple why is it forced married is allowed in these countries..I asked again Where is law enforcement???

[Tania]

Jehovah's witnesses are hardly a new religion..
Did they mention their religion only in this particular case or whenever a jehovah's witness had done something wrong?

I never heard anything about them. :( except this case