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lewcow
11-18-2007, 04:59 PM
Salaam,

Hi, I'm a recent revert that is struggling with one particular point in Islam, and have not been able to find an answer. Since I came to Islam after examining Jewish beliefs, I have been hooked on the fact that the (a) name of Allah is the Tetragrammaton (Yod Ha Waw Ha) in the Hebrew bible. But the trouble is, I have not found a single Hadith or aya in the Quran that make any mention of that name, nor have I found a theory that satisfies my concern. I've heard mention of a 'secret name' of Allah, that may solve my query, but that too I have not been able to verify in sunnah. It's just striking that a name that the Jews esteem so highly, (so much that they wont even utter it for fear of defiling it), would have no place in Islam. (They even consider it a personal name.) It's very had for me to believe that name would be part of the corruption of the Hebrew Bible, for it is used so so frequently by itself or with the ilah cognate elohim.

I hope someone out there has either a source for this 'secret name' theory or a better solution...

Ma Salaama
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MinAhlilHadeeth
11-19-2007, 11:48 AM
:salamext:

There is no 'secret' name of Allah. All of Allah's Names and Attributes are found in the Qur'an and authentic Sunnah.

Shaykh Muhammad ibn Saalih 'Uthaymeen (rahimullah) said:

The Names of Allaah are based upon Revelation and as such, their affirmation is dependent upon what is reported in the revealed texts concerning them. Therefore, nothing can be added to them nor subtracted. This is because the intellect is not able to itself ascertain which names Allaah is most deserving of. So it is obligatory to depend upon the revealed texts for determining that. Also, naming Allaah with that which He did not name Himself or rejecting what He did name Himself with, is a crime against Him and a perpetration of His right. Thus, abiding by the proper etiquettes with regard to that is obligatory.
Read the rest here.
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Pk_#2
11-19-2007, 12:03 PM
Originally Posted by lewcow
Salaam,

Hi, I'm a recent revert that is struggling with one particular point in Islam, and have not been able to find an answer. Since I came to Islam after examining Jewish beliefs, I have been hooked on the fact that the (a) name of Allah is the Tetragrammaton (Yod Ha Waw Ha) in the Hebrew bible. But the trouble is, I have not found a single Hadith or aya in the Quran that make any mention of that name, nor have I found a theory that satisfies my concern. I've heard mention of a 'secret name' of Allah, that may solve my query, but that too I have not been able to verify in sunnah. It's just striking that a name that the Jews esteem so highly, (so much that they wont even utter it for fear of defiling it), would have no place in Islam. (They even consider it a personal name.) It's very had for me to believe that name would be part of the corruption of the Hebrew Bible, for it is used so so frequently by itself or with the ilah cognate elohim.

I hope someone out there has either a source for this 'secret name' theory or a better solution...

Ma Salaama
Ask the camel bro..

Anyhow, the names in the Qur'an, if you have read the Qur'an before you have definately recited this name.

Peace.
Reply

------
11-19-2007, 12:14 PM
:salamext:

I think the brother might be referring to the lecture of Brother Zakir Naik, where he says that the Jewish scriptures have 'ilah' that stands for 'Allaah'?
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MinAhlilHadeeth
11-19-2007, 12:18 PM
Originally Posted by Muj4h1d4
:salamext:

I think the brother might be referring to the lecture of Brother Zakir Naik, where he says that the Jewish scriptures have 'ilah' that stands for 'Allaah'?
:wasalamex

Hmmm, I doubt it. 'Yod Ha Waw Ha' does not resemble 'Ilah' at all.
Reply

YusufNoor
11-19-2007, 01:04 PM
Originally Posted by lewcow
Salaam,

Hi, I'm a recent revert that is struggling with one particular point in Islam, and have not been able to find an answer. Since I came to Islam after examining Jewish beliefs, I have been hooked on the fact that the (a) name of Allah is the Tetragrammaton (Yod Ha Waw Ha) in the Hebrew bible. But the trouble is, I have not found a single Hadith or aya in the Quran that make any mention of that name, nor have I found a theory that satisfies my concern. I've heard mention of a 'secret name' of Allah, that may solve my query, but that too I have not been able to verify in sunnah. It's just striking that a name that the Jews esteem so highly, (so much that they wont even utter it for fear of defiling it), would have no place in Islam. (They even consider it a personal name.) It's very had for me to believe that name would be part of the corruption of the Hebrew Bible, for it is used so so frequently by itself or with the ilah cognate elohim.

I hope someone out there has either a source for this 'secret name' theory or a better solution...

Ma Salaama
:sl:

Well Brother, i'm not so sure that Allah Subhannahu Wa Ta'Aala IS the tetragrammaton. i've heard Mufti Ismail Menk define exactly where the name Allah comes from but i don't remember which lecture and as i have over a hundred of them i don't know where to start to look. iirc, it's a contracted form of a long name meaning the one who deserves to be worshipped and perhaps the only one.

the Jews didn't ALWAYS consider the name to be a secret. they stopped pronouncing it in order not to take it in vain , but because they stopped pronouncing it, my belief is that they just plain forgot what it was and therefore was NO SECRET AT ALL!!

check out this excerpt on Ezra:

http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/vi...=E&search=Ezra


—In Rabbinical Literature:
Ezra marks the springtime in the national history of Judaism. "The flowers appear on the earth" (Cant. ii. 12) refers to Ezra and Nehemiah (Midr. Cant. ad loc.). Ezra was worthy of being the vehicle of the Law, had it not been already given through Moses (Sanh.21b). It was forgotten, but Ezra restored it (Suk. 20a). But for its sins, Israel in the time of Ezra would have witnessed miracles as in the time of Joshua (Ber. 4a). Ezra was the disciple of Baruch ben Neriah (Cant. R.); his studies prevented him from joining the first party returning to Jerusalem in the reign of Cyrus, the study of the Law being of greater importance than the reconstruction of the Temple. According to another opinion, Ezra remained behind so as not to compete, even involuntarily, with Jeshua ben Jozadak for the office of chief priest. Ezra reestablished the text of the Pentateuch, introducing therein the Assyrian or square characters, apparently as a polemical measure against the Samaritans (Sanh. 21b). He showed his doubts concerning the correctness of some words of the text by placing points over them. Should Elijah, said he, approve the text, the points will be disregarded; should he disapprove, the doubtful words will be removed from the text (Ab. R. N. xxxiv.). Ezra wrote the Book of Chronicles and the book bearing his name (B. B. 16a).

He is regarded and quoted as the type of person most competent and learned in the Law (Ber. R. xxxvi.). The Rabbis associate his name with several important institutions. It was he who ordained that three men should read ten verses from the Torah on the second and fifth days of the week and during the afternoon ("Minḥah") service on Sabbath (B. Ḳ. 82a); that the "curses" in Leviticus should be read before Shabu'ot, and those in Deuteronomy before Rosh ha-Shanah (Meg. 31b; see Bloch, "Die Institutionen des Judenthums," i. 1, pp. 112 et seq., Vienna, 1879). He ordained also that courts be in session on Mondays and Thursdays; that garments be washed on these days; that garlic be eaten on the eve of Sabbath; that the wife should rise early and bake bread in the morning; that women should wear a girdle (B. K. 82a; Yer. Meg. iv. 75a); that women should bathe (B. Ḳ. 82a); that pedlers be permitted to visit cities where merchants were established (B. Ḳ. 82a; see Bloch, l.c. p. 127); that under certain contingencies men should take a ritual bath; that the reading at the conclusion of the benedictions should be "min ha-'olam we-'ad ha'olam" (from eternity to eternity: against the Sadducees; see Bloch, l.c. p. 137). His name is also associated with the work of the Great Synagogue (Meg.17b). He is said to have pronounced the Divine Name (Yhwh) according to its proper sounds (Yoma 69b), and the beginnings of the Jewish calendar are traced back to him (Beẓah 6a; Rashi, ad loc.).

According to tradition, Ezra died at the age of 120 in Babylonia. Benjamin of Tudela was shown his grave on the Shaṭṭ al-'Arab, near the point where the Tigris flows into the Euphrates ("Itinerary," i. 73). According to another legend, he was at the time of his death in Babylon, as a courtier in the retinue of Artaxerxes (see Vigouroux, "Dictionnaire de la Bible," ii. 1931). Josephus, however, relates that Ezra died at Jerusalem, where he was buried ("Ant." xi. 5, § 5). In the seliḥah for the 10th of Ṭebet the date of Ezra's death is given as the 9th of Ṭebet (see Shulḥan 'Aruk, Oraḥ Ḥayyim, 580).E. C. E. G. H. I. Br.

—Critical View:
The historical character of the Biblical data regarding Ezra the Scribe (after Ed. Meyer, "Die Entstehung des Judenthums," p. 321) is generally conceded. But the zeal of Ezra to carry out his theory that Israel should be a holy seed ( ), and therefore of absolutely pure Hebrew stock, was not altogether effective; that his views met with opposition is indicated in the books of Ruth and Jonah. The "book of the law" which he proclaimed at the public assembly (Neh. viii.-x.) is substantially identified with the Priestly Code (P), which, though containing older priestly ordinances ("torot"), came to be recognized as the constitutional law of the congregation (Judaism) only after Ezra's time and largely through his and Nehemiah's influence and authority. E.

according to this, prior to Ezra, the name WAS pronounced, and also infers that maybe, just maybe, Ezra was the "author" of the "book of the law"!

i have a thread about this possibillity, based upon Richard Elliot Friedmans "Who Wrote The Bible" currently titled Snakelegs gets her name in another thread. it's a a work in progress.

:w:
Reply

lewcow
11-20-2007, 06:06 AM
Perhaps I phrased that wrong. The name in question, is one that refers very often to Deity in the Torah and Hebrew Bible. Because I haven't found it to resemble any of the Islamic names for Allah, I wonder: Why is it so important to the Jews? they consider it a personal name for the Deity? And I find no corresponding personal name in Islam, in terms of similar word structure - as I have been told - Allah, if any, is The personal name - Faizah is correct, Allah in word form does not seem to resemble the Tetragrammaton (four-letter-word). But since the Quran says that Allah sent the Torah and Gospel, I am complelled to a degree to think that the name in question reffers to him - BUT, I am somewhat cautious, I understand that corruption can certainly be present in the Hebrew we see today - someone could possibly have added that to the text. I don't know what the differences are between the Torah we see today and the Torah given to Moses. But if this name arose out of corruption it would be a huge corruption, given its frequency of use. I see the point of that reference you gave, Faizah: if its not in the Sunnah, how would we know for certain? It's then best to assume its not to be used out of caution.

My question is basically - what is the Islamic stance on that name? Is it just an unknown phenomenon?

It's hard for me to believe there hasn't been any deep scholarly debate on this issue. I'm curious to know if anyone has found one or more.
Reply

YusufNoor
11-20-2007, 03:04 PM
Originally Posted by lewcow
Perhaps I phrased that wrong. The name in question, is one that refers very often to Deity in the Torah and Hebrew Bible. Because I haven't found it to resemble any of the Islamic names for Allah, I wonder: Why is it so important to the Jews? they consider it a personal name for the Deity? And I find no corresponding personal name in Islam, in terms of similar word structure - as I have been told - Allah, if any, is The personal name - Faizah is correct, Allah in word form does not seem to resemble the Tetragrammaton (four-letter-word). But since the Quran says that Allah sent the Torah and Gospel, I am complelled to a degree to think that the name in question reffers to him - BUT, I am somewhat cautious, I understand that corruption can certainly be present in the Hebrew we see today - someone could possibly have added that to the text. I don't know what the differences are between the Torah we see today and the Torah given to Moses.

i recommend that you read Richard Elliott Freidmans "Who Wrote The Bible", which gives us major clues at to who constructed what is now known as the Torah. you can get it at a used book store for around $7.


But if this name arose out of corruption it would be a huge corruption, given its frequency of use. I see the point of that reference you gave, Faizah: if its not in the Sunnah, how would we know for certain? It's then best to assume its not to be used out of caution.

as far as i know, NO JEW ON THE PLANET uses the word/name! They don't want to violate the commandment "Thou shalt not take the Lord's name in vain." conservative Jews use the term Hashem for YHVH. they no longer know what it actually is.

My question is basically - what is the Islamic stance on that name? Is it just an unknown phenomenon?

The VAST majority of Muslims take NO STANCE on any aspects of Judaism or Christianity other than those in the Qur'an and Sunnah. they let Ahmed Deedat and folks like Br. Khalid Yaseen handle those matters as it would require that they learn about those religions.


It's hard for me to believe there hasn't been any deep scholarly debate on this issue.

as i revert, i agree and do alot of research in the area, but more to assure my fellow Muslims that Islam IS correct.

I'm curious to know if anyone has found one or more.
:sl:

HOWEVER, there are a couple of brothers in England who work out some of this stuff. one of the things that they have pointed out is the similarity of the royal plurals Elohim and Allahumma.

if you write them without the vowels, LHM and LlHM m, then you have a pretty close match.

the brothers do some interesting and entertaining work, Insha' Allah, i will find a link to some of their Youtube stuff and post it.

EDIT: doh! i forgot about Br Yusuf Estes, and American Chaplain who reverted to Islam. he has alot more stuff posted on the web than most.

http://www.islamalways.com/


:w:
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islamicboard
11-20-2007, 06:57 PM
Originally Posted by lewcow
Salaam,

Hi, I'm a recent revert that is struggling with one particular point in Islam, and have not been able to find an answer. Since I came to Islam after examining Jewish beliefs, I have been hooked on the fact that the (a) name of Allah is the Tetragrammaton (Yod Ha Waw Ha) in the Hebrew bible. But the trouble is, I have not found a single Hadith or aya in the Quran that make any mention of that name, nor have I found a theory that satisfies my concern. I've heard mention of a 'secret name' of Allah, that may solve my query, but that too I have not been able to verify in sunnah. It's just striking that a name that the Jews esteem so highly, (so much that they wont even utter it for fear of defiling it), would have no place in Islam. (They even consider it a personal name.) It's very had for me to believe that name would be part of the corruption of the Hebrew Bible, for it is used so so frequently by itself or with the ilah cognate elohim.

I hope someone out there has either a source for this 'secret name' theory or a better solution...

Ma Salaama
asalamu alaikum.

there is no secret name for Allah. whatever anyone teaches u about islam ask them to give u proof. so many people just lie about islam these days. if they dont give u evidence find it. if u can't find it ask a man with knowledge. (the imaan in the mosque) make sure u ask him for evidence aswell.

remember, the Quran is a COMPLETE guidance to mankind.
Reply

جوري
11-20-2007, 09:15 PM
Hmmmmmmmn I have read that Allah has 100 names of which we only know 99, I read this story in Arabic so please don't crucify me, I admit I am not a scholar I am just relaying what I read..

the story goes that whomever invokes Allah by the 100th name all his prayers shall be granted and the only one that knows the name is Satan, which he intends to use on the day of judgement to have his sins forgiven, but it so happens that Allah will make him forget the hundredth name..

but there is a du3a that alludes to the 100th name

it goes

Allhouma as'alak bikol ism samyet beh nafsak, aw anzaltaho fi kitabak, aw 3lamtaho a7adan min khlaqak aw is'ta'thrta beh fi 3ilm ilghyb 3indak, an taja3al alquran rabee3 qalbi, w noor sadry, wajala 7ozhni wa zhahab ghami..

Allah a3lam, if anyone knows this, can either confirm or deny it I am all ears...

:w:
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جوري
11-20-2007, 09:21 PM
I got this most unusual 'theories' from a random blog if unsuitable here pls remove

There seems to be general agreement that the 100th name is "hidden" or mysterious. Sufis and others may regularly meditate on the "mystery" of the 100th name as a symbol of God's transcendence, or as a symbol of the true nature of God, which the other 99 names only attempt to describe.

So far I have heard four different theories about the 100th name.

One theory is that the 100th name of Allah is known only to angels, since it's too holy to be entrusted to human beings.

A second theory is that the 100th name will be revealed by the Mahdi (the prophesied redeemer of Islam) at the end of time.

A third theory is that Allah will reveal the 100th name in the heart of each true believer who devoutly prays the other 99 names.

The fourth theory is that the 100th name is known only to camels. When you think about it, this would actually explain quite a lot about camels, including their attitude!
http://paternosters.blogspot.com/2006/11/99-100.html

:w:
Reply

*charisma*
11-21-2007, 05:18 AM
Assalamu Alaikum

Allah a3lam, if anyone knows this, can either confirm or deny it I am all ears...
Inshallah this will be of some help?

-----

[...]

In support of the view that the beautiful names of Allaah are not limited to this number, they quoted the report narrated by Ahmad (3704) from ‘Abd-Allaah ibn Mas’ood who said:

The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “There is no-one who is afflicted by distress and grief, and says:

‘Allaahumma inni ‘abduka ibn ‘abdika ibn amatija naasyati bi yadika, maada fiyya hukmuka, ‘adlun fiyya qadaa’uka. As’aluka bi kulli ismin huwa laka sammayta bihi nafsaka aw anzaltahu fi kitaabika aw ‘allamtahu ahadan min khalqika aw ista’tharta bihi fi ‘ilm il-ghayb ‘indaka an taj’al al-Qur’aana rabee’ qalbi wa noor sadri wa jalaa’ huzni wa dhihaab hammi

(O Allaah, I am Your slave, son of Your slave, son of Your maidservant; my forelock is in Your hand, Your command over me is forever executed and Your decree over me is just. I ask You by every name belonging to You which You have named Yourself with, or revealed in Your Book, or You taught to any of Your creation, or You have preserved in the knowledge of the Unseen with You, that You make the Qur’aan the life of my heart and the light of my breast, and a departure for my sorrow and a release for my anxiety),’

but Allaah will take away his distress and grief, and replace it with joy.” He was asked: “O Messenger of Allaah, should we learn this?” He said: “Of course; everyone who hears it should learn it.”

Classed as saheeh by al-Albaani in al-Silsilah al-Saheehah, 199.

The phrase “or You have preserved in the knowledge of the Unseen with You” [bolded above] indicates that there are beautiful names of Allaah that He has kept with Him in the knowledge of the Unseen, and which none of His creation has come to know. This indicates that there are more than ninety-nine Names.

Shaykh al-Islam [Ibn Taymiyah] said concerning this hadeeth in Majmoo’ al-Fataawa (6/374):

This indicates that Allaah has more than ninety-nine names.

And he said (22/482):

With regard to the words of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), “Allaah has ninety-nine names, one hundred less one. Whoever learns them will enter Paradise,” this does not mean that He does not have any names apart from these, rather it means that whoever learns these ninety-nine of His names will enter Paradise. This is like when the Arabs say: “I have one hundred horses which I have prepared for jihad for the sake of Allaah,” which does not mean that the speaker has only these hundred horses, rather these hundred are prepared for this purpose.

[The rest can be read here-Source]

-----

fi aman Allah
w'salaam
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جوري
11-21-2007, 05:16 PM
Jazaki Allah khyran... helpful indeed =)


:w:
Reply

lewcow
11-22-2007, 12:08 AM
Sallaamu Alaykum,

This been very helpful. I checked out that book on documentary hypothesis - very interesting and eye opening to the variance in the Torah.
Reply

Eeman
06-25-2008, 12:46 AM
Lewcow, i have no knowledge about the torah nor the injeel, somehow my emphasis has always been on the Holy Qur'an. regards the secret name i have heard it many times, when we were younger i remember older family members would refer to it as the "ism e azam" now apparently I dunno Allah swt knows best, it is one of the names of Allah swt that is hidden and it is somewhere in the Qur'an, I once read somewhere that the importance of ayat al kursi is that the hidden name of Allah swt is in it but i dont know how true that is as well cos there are no unknown letters or words in arabic in ayat al kursi that has not been understood by mankind.

So going back to the ism e azam from the stories that i used to hear apparently if one burns (Astaghfirullah) the Holy Qur'an everything in it will burn into ashes except for the part where the ism e azam is written. They say it is the most powerful name of Allah swt and can give people control over the jinns (APPARENTLY).
Now one other thing they also used to say was that a lot of hindus did the above to find out what the ism e azam was and use it to have special powers as they claim which were only with the help of jinns.

i have tried to do my research on this since i was obviously intrigued and wanted to know if this name really did exist and if so why is there no reference to it in the Holy Qur'an but i never really found much and settled for the thought that it is nothing but merely old tales.

As i said Allah swt knows best and is the Most Wise but as far as guidance that has been provided from Him as a mercy to us we are only aware of His 99 names that are His beautiful attributes, who are we to say that He swt is only limited to 99 attributes but these names and attributes of His that we know are what have been revealed to us.

And regards the torah and the injeel, well if they were not fabricated and tampered with then why on earth would God the Almighty replace them with other revelations, as in why would the injeel be revealed to mankind to replace the torah if the torah was the absolute truth and wise words of guidance of Allah swt and the same with the injeel...
it pretty much is common sense is it not? Hence why Allah swt even states in the Qur'an that it is the final book of revelation and that it is guarded and protected by Him swt and in fact He even goes as far as to challenging mankind and jinns to try and bring forth a surah or verse similar to it or fabricate it, but we all know that that is not possible. SubhanAllah!!!

P.S please do not try to burn a copy of the Holy Qur'an ( Allah forbid) thinking that ur doing it with the intention of gaining knowledge to see whether this name really does exist and is hidden in the Qur'an of is it just a myth.

Alhumdulillahi rabbil Alamin.
Reply

Grace Seeker
07-04-2008, 03:58 PM
I had always assumed that the 99 Names of Allah were simply the 99 Names that were found in the Qur'an, but I never thought that this meant it was an exclusive list. None of them really seem like names, more like descriptors. Indeed, this Islamic website www.jannah.org refers to them as attributes. So, because of them, we know that Allah is:
1. Allah
2. Compassionate, Beneficient
3. Merciful
4. the King, the Sovereign Lord with the complete dominion
5. Holy, pure from any imperfection
.
.
.
99. Patient

But I never imagined that just because only 99 things are listed that Allah was limited from having any other attributes.

For instance, while we are told that Allah is Al-Qaadir (Able, Capable, attributed with power) and Al-Muqtadir (Powerful, Dominant, perfect power that nothing is withheld from Him) we are not told that Allah is actually All-Powerful with none surpassing him -- yet I know Muslims believe this as well. So, I always figured that the list was just a good start and that there are probably 999+ more attributes of Allah not listed in the Qur'an, for if all of Allah's attributes were to be listed, there would not be enough pages to record them all.

So, it is interesting to read the statements of those early on in this thread who denied the existence of any other Name or Attributes of Allah beyond these 99. Never dreamed a Muslim would so limit Allah.
Reply

Eeman
07-04-2008, 04:14 PM
Originally Posted by Grace Seeker
I had always assumed that the 99 Names of Allah were simply the 99 Names that were found in the Qur'an, but I never thought that this meant it was an exclusive list. None of them really seem like names, more like descriptors. Indeed, this Islamic website www.jannah.org refers to them as attributes. So, because of them, we know that Allah is:
1. Allah
2. Compassionate, Beneficient
3. Merciful
4. the King, the Sovereign Lord with the complete dominion
5. Holy, pure from any imperfection
.
.
.
99. Patient

But I never imagined that just because only 99 things are listed that Allah was limited from having any other attributes.

For instance, while we are told that Allah is Al-Qaadir (Able, Capable, attributed with power) and Al-Muqtadir (Powerful, Dominant, perfect power that nothing is withheld from Him) we are not told that Allah is actually All-Powerful with none surpassing him -- yet I know Muslims believe this as well. So, I always figured that the list was just a good start and that there are probably 999+ more attributes of Allah not listed in the Qur'an, for if all of Allah's attributes were to be listed, there would not be enough pages to record them all.

So, it is interesting to read the statements of those early on in this thread who denied the existence of any other Name or Attributes of Allah beyond these 99. Never dreamed a Muslim would so limit Allah.
Salam

Allah swt is not limited to just 99 names and beauiful attributes, these are the attributes that have been revealed to us through His own Book the Qur'an. who are we to say or assume anything about th Almighty???

we are only referring to what is revealed to us... which is the 99 names in the Qur'an. And i personally think that whoever thinks that Allah swt is only limited to 99 atributes then i guess that person needs t rethink about our creator and not have such a limited thinking of Him.

ma salama
Reply

Grace Seeker
07-04-2008, 04:28 PM
Originally Posted by Eeman
Salam

Allah swt is not limited to just 99 names and beauiful attributes, these are the attributes that have been revealed to us through His own Book the Qur'an. who are we to say or assume anything about th Almighty???

we are only referring to what is revealed to us... which is the 99 names in the Qur'an. And i personally think that whoever thinks that Allah swt is only limited to 99 atributes then i guess that person needs t rethink about our creator and not have such a limited thinking of Him.

ma salama

So then, Faizah was mistaken when he said
Originally Posted by Faizah
All of Allah's Names and Attributes are found in the Qur'an and authentic Sunnah.
I think I agree with you. Indeed reading further in the source that Faizah used to substantiate his opinion, I actually find information that contradicts his conclusion, for Shaykh Muhammad ibn Saalih 'Uthaymeen (rahimullah) said:
The Names of Allaah are not confined to a fixed and definite number.

This is based on the famous hadeeth: "I ask You, O Allaah, by every one of Your Names by which You have named Yourself or revealed in Your Book. Or (those which You have) taught to one of Your creatures or appropriated for Yourself in the knowledge of the Ghaib (Unseen) that is with You." [4]

Specifying and grasping whatever Allaah has appropriated for Himself in the knowledge of the Ghaib (Unseen) that is with Him, is impossible to attain.

The way to combine between this hadeeth and the other authentic hadeeth: "Verily, to Allaah belong ninety-nine names, (by which) whosoever takes account of them (i.e. memorizes, learns and supplicates by them), will enter Paradise" is that the meaning of this (latter) hadeeth is:

"Verily, from among all the names of Allaah are ninety-nine names by which if someone takes account of them, he will enter Paradise."

It does not mean that Allaah's names are restricted to this number (of 99).

The equivalent of this would be if one were to say: "I have one hundred dollars which I have counted out for the purpose of giving in charity." This does not negate that he has other dollars in his possession, which he has counted out for a purpose other than charity.
Of course, if Allah's names are not confined to a fixed and definite number, then 100 would be just as incorrect a conclusion as 99. And, if this is so, then it would seem that Allah would not have A secret name (emphasis on the article "A"), but perhaps has many names unknown to humans, for what human (even the transcriber of the Qur'an) is capable of knowing everything there is to know about Allah?
Reply

Eeman
07-04-2008, 06:16 PM
Originally Posted by Grace Seeker
So then, Faizah was mistaken when he said


I think I agree with you. Indeed reading further in the source that Faizah used to substantiate his opinion, I actually find information that contradicts his conclusion, for Shaykh Muhammad ibn Saalih 'Uthaymeen (rahimullah) said:

Of course, if Allah's names are not confined to a fixed and definite number, then 100 would be just as incorrect a conclusion as 99. And, if this is so, then it would seem that Allah would not have A secret name (emphasis on the article "A"), but perhaps has many names unknown to humans, for what human (even the transcriber of the Qur'an) is capable of knowing everything there is to know about Allah?
yes brother,

the human mind and scope can only and will only grasp as much as it possibly can by Allah swt's will...

there are so many things that we dont know about this creation that we live in and the planets and our own universe, how are we meant to assume such things about the Almighty who created all these things???
we as humans are limited but the Creator who created us is not limited to ANYTHING!

and we humans would be doing nothing but plainly wronging ourselves to assume or conclude to things that are WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY beyond our understanding or knowledge.
Reply

Grace Seeker
07-04-2008, 08:54 PM
Originally Posted by Eeman
yes brother,

the human mind and scope can only and will only grasp as much as it possibly can by Allah swt's will...

there are so many things that we dont know about this creation that we live in and the planets and our own universe, how are we meant to assume such things about the Almighty who created all these things???
we as humans are limited but the Creator who created us is not limited to ANYTHING!

and we humans would be doing nothing but plainly wronging ourselves to assume or conclude to things that are WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY beyond our understanding or knowledge.

Following that line of thought a little further, would it be fair to say that no human mind can grasp all there is to know about Allah, that not even Muhammad (p) himself knew all there is to know about Allah.? That in fact there probably are not just some things, but many things with regard to Allah; that Allah never even revealed about himself to Muhammad?
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Eeman
07-04-2008, 11:00 PM
Originally Posted by Grace Seeker
Following that line of thought a little further, would it be fair to say that no human mind can grasp all there is to know about Allah, that not even Muhammad (p) himself knew all there is to know about Allah.? That in fact there probably are not just some things, but many things with regard to Allah; that Allah never even revealed about himself to Muhammad?
hmmm... you want my views on it?

well i personally as far as my thinking goes yes i would agree on that...
its like let me give you and example when some people ask is Allah male or female? wha does He look like, How does He sit? does He have human features?

well of course we dont know... Allah swt tells us in His book Himself that He is UNSEEN!

our knowledge only reaches out as far as this world and creation goes, things we see and know about i.e. like for instance paradise, Allah swt describes it in the Qur'an but frm the descriptions that is revealed to us, that surely cannot be all that is there in Paradise! well thats what i think, but from my understanding (Allah swt knows best) i think that He is only descriping the things in Paradis that we are familiarised with as humans, like "gardens under which rivers flow" we know what gardens are and we know what rivers are, He says there will be fruits, we know what fruits are, but is that it???

are we striving so hard in this world to please our Almighty just to sit there in gardens which has rivers flowing underneath them and fruits?

no of course not, Allah swt does not go into detail about he other things because these other things are not in existance in our limited world and universe, there would be no way of our human mind to grasp those things in.


so now itonly makes you think if He the one that was never created, who had no one before Him nor after Him, the awwal (first) and the akhir (last)
has the power, ability to create all this, how can we even think or imagine how can a human intellect be able to comprehend each and everything about Him even be it a blessed prophet (saw) i would only imagine that the human mind would explode... unless of course Allah swt wills.

but then again when Allah swt talks about the messengers in the Qur'an He goes to say how according to His own preference He has exceeded some to others, to musa (saw) He spoke to isa (saw) He gave the power to heal etc.

but none of these prophets (pbut) have had the privilige as far as we know according to the Qur'an to see the Almighty.

the message of Allah swt was given to prophet mohammad ( saw) through jibriel who is a angel.

Now angels are another creation of Allah swt altogether with much more power and might than us humans put together, I would say that even they wouldnt be able to grasp or be ale to fully comprehend Allah swt, cos just like us they are limited too.... everyone, everything in creation is limited be it seen or unseen except for Allah swt.

thats how i think anyhow, but many people might not agree, Allah swt knows best.

ma salama.
Reply

Grace Seeker
07-05-2008, 02:01 AM
One of my thoughts is that just in the way that Allah might have (probably has) other things in paradise besides gardens and rivers and fruits that we can't even imagine, it might also be that some of the ways of Allah are likewise beyond our imagining.

I mean if the "material things" (I'm not sure that it is even material in the same way that we experience matter on this earth) are beyond our understand, surely the actions, the thoughts, the logic of Allah are way beyond us. Thus I might think that something is impossible or illogical or simply cannot be done such and such way, yet for Allah it is no problem. Things that I think are contradictions -- like light being both a particle and a wave at the same time -- make perfect sense to Allah. And not just when it comes to things in nature, but even more so in the spiritual realm.

What do you think?
Reply

Eeman
07-05-2008, 04:22 AM
Originally Posted by Grace Seeker
One of my thoughts is that just in the way that Allah might have (probably has) other things in paradise besides gardens and rivers and fruits that we can't even imagine, it might also be that some of the ways of Allah are likewise beyond our imagining.

I mean if the "material things" (I'm not sure that it is even material in the same way that we experience matter on this earth) are beyond our understand, surely the actions, the thoughts, the logic of Allah are way beyond us. Thus I might think that something is impossible or illogical or simply cannot be done such and such way, yet for Allah it is no problem. Things that I think are contradictions -- like light being both a particle and a wave at the same time -- make perfect sense to Allah. And not just when it comes to things in nature, but even more so in the spiritual realm.

What do you think?
well in the Qur'an it says:
Allah swt says be and it is.

so even trying to understand the logic of Allah swt is a foolish act in it self.
How can we try to understand or comprehend the knowledge of the one who created us????
who bestowed very very very limited knowledge upon us, our knowledge is nothing but compared to His and i mean nothing.

Allah swt says :

Nor shall the compass aught of His knowledge except as He willeth, ayat al kursi.

Allah swt creates everything in perfection and with good reason, even the things that have been created with imperfections, there are reasons for Him creating it imperfectly we with our very limited knowledge may not know but only He knows all.
Reply

Grace Seeker
07-05-2008, 02:55 PM
Originally Posted by Eeman
well in the Qur'an it says:
Allah swt says be and it is.

so even trying to understand the logic of Allah swt is a foolish act in it self.
How can we try to understand or comprehend the knowledge of the one who created us????
who bestowed very very very limited knowledge upon us, our knowledge is nothing but compared to His and i mean nothing.
Given that, can you give me any insight into why some Muslims object not just to Christian teachings regarding the Trinity (I know it is considered shirk and that would be reason enough to object to it), but also object that it is illogical to conceive with regard to God the things that become implied by the Trinity. Yes, it might seem illogical to think of three persons in one being, but if trying to understand the logic of Allah is a foolish act in itself, then why would some object to it simply because they cannot conceive of it? And likewise it might seem impossible that the infinite creator of the universe could manifest himself in the form of corruptible humanity. But to reject the ideas simply because they are beyond one's ability to imagine how it could be true-- to me that tells me that the problem is not with the view of God contained in the idea, but with the individual's desire to control who God is or what he can or cannot do by the limits of his/her own finite mind.

Any thoughts?
Reply

Eeman
07-05-2008, 03:43 PM
Originally Posted by Grace Seeker
Given that, can you give me any insight into why some Muslims object not just to Christian teachings regarding the Trinity (I know it is considered shirk and that would be reason enough to object to it), but also object that it is illogical to conceive with regard to God the things that become implied by the Trinity. Yes, it might seem illogical to think of three persons in one being, but if trying to understand the logic of Allah is a foolish act in itself, then why would some object to it simply because they cannot conceive of it? And likewise it might seem impossible that the infinite creator of the universe could manifest himself in the form of corruptible humanity. But to reject the ideas simply because they are beyond one's ability to imagine how it could be true-- to me that tells me that the problem is not with the view of God contained in the idea, but with the individual's desire to control who God is or what he can or cannot do by the limits of his/her own finite mind.

Any thoughts?
Ok i undrstand what your saying there but no offence, thats where thinking too deep into it as i said is a foolish act in itself.

based on the teachings of the Qur'an we do not let our desires control who God is or what He can or cannot do, but we merely follow His own message.

As you may be aware in the Qur'an Allah swt makes it VERY clear throughout the whole book that There is only One God and that is Him, He is one there was nothing before Him not after Him, He begets not nor was He begotten.

Surah ikhlas makes that very clear.

He also goes to tell us that isa saw (jesus) was nothing more than a messenger of His and makes it clear that the christians made up lies about the Almighty as in regards Isa saw.

so when Allah swt is telling us all this and making it clear to us how are we then to go aganist His own word and think, oh no hold on a second God is so Supreme how can we possibly limit Him to not being able to be 3 persons in one being i.e. the trinity. But then one can go further and argue are we not yet again limiting Him to 3??? why not 4 or 5 or 6 or 7????

so if the mind starts thinking like that then your simply going to lose the plot by the end you'll start believing that there is 1000000000000000000000 so on so forth persons in one being.

the muslim perspective makes logical sense to me personally, there is only One God but this God is not limited to anything and His attributes are endless. there are only 99 that He Himself out of mercy has revealed to us but i strongly believe that there are many many many more that us humans dont know about. and these are ATTRIBUTES of this One God not other beings nor persons.

And say for arguments sake is it was the case with Allah swt that He was 3 persons within one being (trinity) then why would He in His final message to mankind the Qur'an emphasise one th fact of Him being One???
suely He would hint it out somewhere within the book on the contrary He condems such people that set up partners with Him cos they are the ones that are insulting Him and His ability and Power by saying that He is incapable of being One... How can One supreme being be able to do all this??? its not possible therefore He must need help by other beings.
Reply

Grace Seeker
07-05-2008, 04:30 PM
Your point is well taken. One can "overthink" (is that a new word?) things about God. And it is better to take God at his word with the simplest understanding than to become so analytical of it that we invent things about God that aren't really. I suppose this is why Muslims think of Allah as having two hands even as he remains totally unseen, simply because it mentions "both hands" of Allah in the Qur'an. (BTW, for myself, I think that is figurative language not meant to be taken so literally, but we were not discussing that point.) And given that the Qur'an is your holy record of what Allah said, then of course you must accept those passages that speak directly and clearly against anything remotely similar to the Christian understanding of the Trinity. Like I said, I understand why Muslims are against it. I just don't understand why some are also against the logic of it -- for though it makes no sense based on the Qur'an, we Christians don't use the Qur'an and I think it makes perfect sense given the revelation of God that we find in the Christian scriptures. And, true, one could end up with 4,5, 7, or even 1000 persons in one being if it had been so revealed in the Christian sciptures, but it wasn't. It was three that were revealed therein, and so that's why we have (in our logic) come to that particular view.


the muslim perspective makes logical sense to me personally, there is only One God but this God is not limited to anything and His attributes are endless. there are only 99 that He Himself out of mercy has revealed to us but i strongly believe that there are many many many more that us humans dont know about. and these are ATTRIBUTES of this One God not other beings nor persons.
Of course. It would to me too, if I were a Muslim. If one accepts the Qur'an and disregards the writings of the New Testament, the view you hold is the only one that would make any logical sense.

And say for arguments sake is it was the case with Alla swt that He was 3 persons within one being (trinity) then why would He in His final message to mankind the Qur'an emphasise one th fact of Him being One???
suely He would hint it out somewhere within the book on the contrary He condems such people that set up partners with Him cos they are the ones that are insulting Him and His ability and Power by saying that He is incapable of being One... How can One supreme being be able to do all this??? its not possible therefore He must need help by other beings.
Well, I think this depends very much on some apriori we are likely to each make with regard to the veracity of our own scriptures vs. the others. As long as you accept the Qur'an as God's divine revelation and the Bible as being corrupted, then of course one must ask that question as to why Allah would in his final message say the things that he did. But what if it is not your logic, but your initial assumption is what is in error. What if you were to believe as I do that God has sent no new message through yet another prophet, then the whole idea of asking why Allah would say such and such becomes a moot point, for the assumption becomes that it isn't actually revelation at all, but something else with a source other than Allah. And the final message that we have from God becomes that which you had previously rejected. But, this part of the forum is not the place to debate such things.

Eeman, I want to thank you for willingness to participate in this discussion with me. It has been most interesting, and I appreciate your insights.

:sl:
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Eeman
07-05-2008, 07:18 PM
Dear brother i totally agree with you there,

as we muslims believe thats why mankind have been given free will, it is the biggest part of our existance to see who is the one that will walk on the right path and who is the one who will walk on the wrong path in order for us to be held account and judged on the final day.

i cannot say that just cos i was given that privilige of being born into a muslim family thats why i am upholding my religion and am guided, cos before i fully submitted to the Almighty God although i was a born muslm who had some knowledge about God i was worse than a disbeliever who you would understand to some extent why they live the way they live life, cos you think they were born into that their parents believe that so therefore one would ay it is a lot harder fo them but a born muslim to be a deviating one in my thinking is only as worse no fact even more wrong.

God almighty has given us intellect eyes to see ears to hear, why? cos He is the most fair, why would He hold us into account if we had no intellect no eyes to se for ourselves and no ears to hear the His message?

It depends on the person and how much that person wants to know and find out the truth and how far they will go to achieve it, in doing so one has to be sincere and also open minded,

and Insha'Allah Allah swt will guide them to the truth. the saddest thing i find is that for me it took me so long i had to come nearly on the brink of giving up life altogether in order to turn to Him, and thats what happens most of the times but i am yet still very very very thankful to Him for guiding me even if it was then, its better later than never.

every religion that you get the firm believing member of it will not understand any logic in other religions and therefore refute it and not accept it.

But i do not think that that is right the person who is in search of the truth should be open minded, analytical and clarify each and everything. common sense is the most important thing and i would say many of us are blessed with that.

i have looked into every religion other than islam before to try and get some sort of peace and order or feel that gap and huge void in my life being filled but it didnt take too long until i came across things or theories and believes that made no sense to me and obviously i rejected it but when things did in every aspect as in islam i embraced it fully.

vice versa brother thank very much for the delightful discussion.
May Allah swt reward you for it Insha'Allah

Ma salama.
Reply

Eeman
07-05-2008, 07:19 PM
I suppose this is why Muslims think of Allah as having two hands even as he remains totally unseen, simply because it mentions "both hands" of Allah in the Qur'an. (BTW, for myself, I think that is figurative language not meant to be taken so literally:

as regards this point that you made i totally agree with you from my own understanding i also believe that its only figurative language and not literal. and as far as i know many fellow muslims do believe the same as well.
Reply

sarfaraz
11-22-2008, 12:49 PM
there is no secret here. Just cause and effect. They forgot Allah so He made them forget His Name:

Yhwh is a third person form in grammar, and literally means "He is".

In Arabic we have the letters Haa and Wow to give us "Hu" or Huwa "Huwa" as the corresponding word-as in "He is Allah, other than Whom there is no god" (Al Hashr 59:23)

To solve your mystery lets put the OT story- side by side-with the Honourable Qur'an:

When Moses sees the burning bush and goes to investigate a voice addresses him and identifies Himself as God. The YHVH is the name given by God to Moses when he asks Who shall I say sent me? The reply is YHVH.

now look in Sura Taha (20:8) Allah starts the story of Musa (a.s) with this:

Allahu la illaha ila hu
8.Allah! There is no god except He. His are the most beautiful names.


9 Hath there come unto thee the story of Moses?

10 When he saw a fire and said unto his folk: Lo! Wait! I see a fire afar off. Peradventure I may bring you a brand therefrom or may find guidance at the fire.

11 And when he reached it, he was called by name: O Moses!

12 Lo! I, even I, am thy Lord, So take off thy shoes, for lo! thou art in the holy valley of Tuwa.

13 And I have chosen thee, so hearken unto that which is inspired.

14 Lo! I, even I, am Allah, There is no god save Me. So serve Me and establish worship for My remembrance

By identifying the passage of the bible and comparing it with the Qur'an we can say with a degree of confidence that the pronouns " I "and "Me" and "He is" and "I am" are strong possiblilities for YHVH.
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Karl
03-01-2018, 10:32 PM
Naming people and other animals is a human concept as far as I know. So why should people assume Allah has a "real" name in the form of a noise made by animals?
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azc
03-02-2018, 01:22 PM
أَلَمْ تَرَ أَنَّ اللَّهَ يُسَبِّحُ لَهُ مَنْ فِي السَّمَاوَاتِ وَالأرْضِ وَالطَّيْرُ صَافَّاتٍ كُلٌّ قَدْ عَلِمَ صَلاتَهُ وَتَسْبِيحَهُ وَاللَّهُ عَلِيمٌ بِمَا يَفْعَلُونَ

Seest thou not that it is Allah Whose praises all beings in the heavens and on earth do celebrate, and the birds (of the air) with wings outspread? Each one knows its own (mode of) prayer and praise. And Allah knows well all that they do.
(24: 41)
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Peterpeter
03-16-2018, 07:49 AM
Yahwé.
A name that has some similarities to the 63th name of Allah.

- - - Updated - - -

The Name of God "Yá Bahá'u'l-Abhá" (يا بهاء الأبهى usually translated as "O Thou the Glory of the Most Glorious!"), should be the 100th name of God according to Baha'i faith.
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azc
03-17-2018, 05:45 PM
The pious names of Allah swt are defined in our holy scriptures. We don't need any other name from any other source
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Peterpeter
03-22-2018, 01:43 PM
The 99 names of Allah are what a muslim can practice with benefit, so do not worry too much about other names. They will come to you if you need them, and at the right moment.
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azc
03-22-2018, 05:19 PM
Originally Posted by Peterpeter
The 99 names of Allah are what a muslim can practice with benefit, so do not worry too much about other names. They will come to you if you need them, and at the right moment.
We don't need any other name, my friend.

Do you follow bahaulla..?
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Peterpeter
03-22-2018, 06:24 PM
Originally Posted by azc
We don't need any other name, my friend.

Do you follow bahaulla..?

No, I don't.
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