Doku Umarov Rebuilds Chechen Resistance

[Chechnya]

Unforunately the old days are over with the top commanders - the old guard - all gone, inshallah Doku Umarov can keep the resistance alive and kicking

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A noticeable rise in insurgent activity has been observed during the summer of 2007. A link may exist with the recent policies of the Chechen leader, Doku Umarov, who has made new leadership appointments within the resistance movement. These changes are aimed at allowing the individual guerrilla units to function more independently and rely less on a central leader.

It is well known that Shamil Basaev tried to concentrate all control over the ethnic-based insurgent groups of the North Caucasus into the hands of the Chechen commanders. This approach was not only militarily successful, but also politically beneficial for the Chechen leadership. The Chechen command was always extremely interested in widening the theater of operations to areas outside of Chechnya and worked hard to coordinate the actions of the various ethnic divisions that were included in the “Caucasus Front” by order of then-president Abdul-Khalim Sadulaev (www.chechenpress.info, May 16, 2005).

The killings of Abdul-Khalim Sadulaev (June 17, 2006) and Shamil Basaev (July 10, 2006) made Doku Umarov’s ability to maintain the same level of control over all of the ethnic units of the resistance less than certain. Despite expectations to the contrary, however, all of the non-Chechen divisions, eventually took an oath of allegiance to the new leader, thus giving him a chance to finish that which was started by his predecessors. Subsequently Umarov traveled to Ingushetia, Kabarda, and Dagestan in order to emphasize his qualifications as the new leader.

By selecting emir Magas (Akhmed Yevloev) as the military commander of the entire Caucasus Front, Doku Umarov has made it easier to energize resistance forces in those regions near Ingushetia (Chechnya, Ossetia, Kabarda). This is important because the commander of the Southwestern Front is Tarkhan Gaziev, another member of the Ingush jamaat. Combined with the extensive control exercised in Dagestan by Rappani Khalilov, this means that Umarov can focus all of his energy on Chechnya proper [Khalilov was reportedly killed by Russian security forces on September 17]. Though there have been few noticeable results as of late, the current distribution of power within the resistance favors an active political stance.

The decrees issued by Doku Umarov over the course of the last two months make it possible to infer what is most important to the leader of the resistance movement at this time. The August decrees focus on foreign policy, with new representatives to Germany and the countries of Northern Europe being appointed (decrees #141-144, signed on August 17). Alla Dudaeva, the widow of Dzhokhar Dudaev, the first president of the Chechen Republic of Ichkeria, has been appointed as the deputy minister of culture (decree #145, August 17), while Visit Ibragimov, once the deputy of Ichkeria’s vice-president Vakha Arsanov, has become the director of the department for the Vainakh diaspora (decree #146, August 23). It seems probable that these new appointees are intended to infuse some energy into the currently sluggish, almost nonexistent, foreign policy activity. At the moment, almost all international activity has shifted away from the resistance leadership and into the hands of various social and humanitarian organizations.

In September, a new set of decrees was issued (with decree #147 dating from September 4), a number of them surprising and difficult to explain. Exactly six months ago, the position of the Head of the Sharia Court went to Mansur Yevmirzaev (decree #134, March 7), a man well known as an alim, a person knowledgeable in theology and probably also Sharia law (www.daymohk.info, April 27). This man has now been suddenly replaced, the whole issue summed up with a cryptic “due to a transfer to a new position,” an explanation even more puzzling than the initial decree. It is entirely unclear as to what could have been offered to Yevmirzaev as a replacement for his respected and most fitting post. It is to be hoped that the future will provide some explanation of what actually occurred and what led Doku Umarov to replace the man he himself appointed only months earlier.

Yevmirzaev’s removal is nothing compared to the surprising new replacement named by Umarov – Anzor Astermirov (decree #147, September 4), a man that hardly fits the profile of an alim. The key seems to lie not in the qualifications of the leader of the Kabardino-Balkar jamaat for this position, but in the fact that the Head of the Sharia Court is the third-ranking official in the Chechen resistance. If the president and vice-president of the Chechen republic of Ichkeria should die simultaneously, the leadership post automatically passes to the Chief of the High Sharia Court. This appointment, then, makes Astermirov a figure of importance for the whole region.

Anzor Astemirov's jamaat has been particularly active recently, with numerous attacks and bombings in Kabardino-Balkaria. The latest news from Nalchik suggests that the terrorist activity typical of Ingushetia has now moved to the western republics of the North Caucasus. During September 12-13, insurgents fired on a car belonging to the local FSB branch (causing casualties), exploded a bomb near the “Nalchik” hotel, attacked several policemen and instigated a firefight in Nalchik’s suburbs. Since the start of September, these types of events have become commonplace in Kabardino-Balkaria, with most bombings being directed at the police and the FSB (www.stav.kp.ru, September 14).

Another one of Umarov’s September decrees tries to reform one of the least used organs of the resistance movement, the consultative body called the “Shura of the alims of the peoples of the North Caucasus.” Originally intended to be the key ideological organ of the resistance, the Shura has never been an important organization, since few alims were willing to bear the burdens of going into permanent hiding by becoming full-fledged active members. Doku Umarov (decree #149, September 4) placed the Shura under the authority of the general foreign representative of the Chechen republic of Ichkeria and renamed it the “Sharia committee.” This is an attempt to breathe new life into the Shura by moving it overseas, though it is not entirely clear whether such an approach will prove successful. It is true that it would be possible to try to attract those spiritual leaders that now reside abroad, including Magomed Kebedov (the former Dagestani radical leader), Shamsudin Batukaev (the former head of the Sharia court), and others into the new Sharia committee. The decree, however, damages the position of the general foreign representative of Ichkeria, since the linkage between him and the Sharia committee will make many European and Turkish politicians wary of dealing with him.

All of these decrees are aimed at continuing the reorganization of the resistance movement, making it more maneuverable and allowing the leaders of the various ethnic units to move into leadership positions. This is intended to bring about an increase in activity across the whole of the North Caucasus. At the same time, steps are also being taken to mobilize a foreign policy offensive.

[al-muslimah]

I love sheeshan the land of Islam!! And Abdullah aka Shamil basyev may Allah accept him as ashaheed and i wish he is in fardaws al 'ala( the highest jannah) with the rest of the shiuhaada.Ameen.

[Chechnya]

ameen. inshallah!

though his loss has done untold damage to the resistance - something from which they may not recover fully

[SATalha]

I have seen recently that there has been an attempt by the media to link Doko Umarov to Al-Qaidah. The reason for this is that the excuse that Russia is fighting "Islamic terror" needs to be maintained. This is not true the Russians are not fighting Islamic Terrorism rather they are fighting true freedome fighters. All terrorist attacks against the Russians on are questionable.

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[SATalha]

May Allah SWT bestow power in the Chechen resistance

[jzcasejz]

May Allah SWT bestow power in the Chechen resistance

Aameen. And JazaakAllaah Khayr Bro Chechnya! :thumbs_up

[Amadeus85]

I wonder, what should think someone like me, someone who dislike truly imperialistic russian goverment ( despotism>?) and who cant indetify with those Chechens who attack innocent russian civilians.

[SATalha]

you know the Chechens hardly attacked Russian civilians....anyway the appartment bombings are very shady anyway....watch Alexander litvenenko expose it on youtube. Trust me the Chechens are bieng blamed for a lot they didnt do.

[al-muslimah]

May Allah SWT bestow power in the Chechen resistance----SATalha

Ameen.Allahumansurhum wa alayka bee'ada-eehim.

[Chechnya]

I wonder, what should think someone like me, someone who dislike truly imperialistic russian goverment ( despotism>?) and who cant indetify with those Chechens who attack innocent russian civilians.

Why not support the elected goverment of Chechnya which has not once had a history of attacking civlians - and interestingly has probably saved more russian lives than anyone else by simply encouraging young chechens to use military means and attack only military targets?

May Allah SWT bestow power in the Chechen resistance

Ameen

[wilberhum]

I wonder, what should think someone like me, someone who dislike truly imperialistic russian goverment ( despotism>?) and who cant indetify with those Chechens who attack innocent russian civilians.

So you want to know what they would think?

Read the post below yours and you will see.

The answer is denial. Standard "They don't do that".

[AHMED_GUREY]

Generalizations projected towards muslim Freedom fighters is 'ok' but put all US soldiers or any Western army into one box and 'unfair' 'non sequitur' 'biased' are the terms in circulation.

Ironic.

[Chechnya]

So you want to know what they would think?

Read the post below yours and you will see.

The answer is denial. Standard "They don't do that".

either you cannot read or refuse to do so

neither is healthy for one whose life seems to revolve around posting on an internet forum :mmokay:

[wilberhum]

either you cannot read or refuse to do so

neither is healthy for one whose life seems to revolve around posting on an internet forum :mmokay:

Ya, I spend too much time on the net. A lot of that time is used reading the news from many sources. You should find some Reliable news sources and see what they have to say.

AHMED_GUREY
As far as generalizations, well your Chechen Terrorists generally attack school kids and people who go to shows, don't they?

[SATalha]

You know what Wilber you have a stereotypical view about the Chechens and what they do. Your like the Russian people who think that all Chechens are scum. You know what the Russian Gov have accomplished what they want, and this is to show the Chechen FIghers as terrorist. Dont believe all things about the Chechens.....alot of it is lies created by the FSB. The FSB have killed their own people to make sure that the public think that the Chechens are Islamic Terrerorist and are attacking the Russian homeland. THINK ABOUT it why would the resistence want to shoot themselves in their own feet????????????

[Chechnya]

Ya, I spend too much time on the net. A lot of that time is used reading the news from many sources. You should find some Reliable news sources and see what they have to say.

AHMED_GUREY
As far as generalizations, well your Chechen Terrorists generally attack school kids and people who go to shows, don't they?

i could give you a list of western authors to back my point but i doubt you wuld even look into them so i see no reason to do so

you show no serious intention of actually learning what is happening in chechnya but just like to keep harping on about beslan - an event in which the chechen goverment had no hand

[snakelegs]

what's your take on the alexander litvinenko case? apparently not all the bad stuff done by chechnyans was done by chechnyans at all.

[Chechnya]

what's your take on the alexander litvinenko case? apparently not all the bad stuff done by chechnyans was done by chechnyans at all.

salam

alexander litvenenko became russias enemy after he came out about the apartment bombings in 1999 - russias own 9-11

even at the time of the bombings, russian agents were actually CAUGHT by local police planting bombs in another apartment block - this was actually reported at the time but russia try to cover it up by saying it was some sort of training exercise

as more info came out, it was alexander litvenko who came out and confirmed it was not chechens who carried it out - he was a part of the fsb at the time and was in the know about many of russias secrets

theres actually some good video documentaries on google video about these bombings - and it is generally believed outside of russia that chechns were not behind this

this isnt a conspiracy theory to absolve chechens of any blame or make them all the be saintd - chechns have done some bad things and we have to admit it when they do - beslan for example - but the apartment bombings was not carried out by chechens

inshallah alexander litveneko is a martyr, he knew once he came out - he would become russias no. 1 target and most likely be killed but he did it anyway

[snakelegs]

thanks for your response - yes, this is what i read also.
haven't heard any more about this for quite a while now.

[wilberhum]

i could give you a list of western authors to back my point but i doubt you wuld even look into them so i see no reason to do so

you show no serious intention of actually learning what is happening in chechnya but just like to keep harping on about beslan - an event in which the chechen goverment had no hand

Right, I even read some Chechen Rebel rag that was nothing but propaganda.

If you have any "Real News" source that backs you, I would love to see it.

But not that silly sh** that talks about unknown testing bu Russia that only effects Muslim women.

What are you on about? I have never said anything about the "Chechen government", I have talked about your Chechen terrorist many times though.

[Chechnya]

Right, I even read some Chechen Rebel rag that was nothing but propaganda.

If you have any "Real News" source that backs you, I would love to see it.

as i said earlier i could give you a list of western journalists who have covered the chechen war and seen things as they have happened - if you are serious enough to look into them and read their books/accounts, i will give you their names

and get your head out of your "rebel propaganda" backside since i said western authors - neither russian nor chechen, they dont do propaganda for either side

But not that silly sh** that talks about unknown testing bu Russia that only effects Muslim women.

where have i ever mentioned that? nowhere

so i can only repeat get you head out of your backside and start paying attention, ok?

good lad

What are you on about? I have never said anything about the "Chechen government", I have talked about your Chechen terrorist many times though.

any thread about the chechen goverment- you turn it about beslan which has nothing to do with them - if you wanna talk about that start another thread

[Keltoi]

I understand that Putin is quite popular amongst the Russian people in large part because of his actions against the Chechen rebels. Logically, one would conclude that any Chechen militarism will be countered in much the same way as it has in the past. One really has to wonder if more death is really what Chechnya needs right now.

[wilberhum]

as i said earlier i could give you a list of western journalists who have covered the chechen war and seen things as they have happened - if you are serious enough to look into them and read their books/accounts, i will give you their names
Well? Where are they?

and get your head out of your "rebel propaganda" backside since i said western authors - neither russian nor chechen, they dont do propaganda for either side
Gee, I ask for information and all you have as insults. Why doesn't that surprise me?

where have i ever mentioned that? nowhere

so i can only repeat get you head out of your backside and start paying attention, ok?
Boy, did your mom stop you from having some more Ice Cream?

good lad
Thanks, but you should try too.

any thread about the chechen goverment- you turn it about beslan which has nothing to do with them - if you wanna talk about that start another thread
Again, I have never said anything about the Chechen government. You just keep praising child killers. They aren't the government.

It is good that I got a great nights sleep before facing your pointless misguided rage. You need a "Chill Pill".

[Chechnya]

Well? Where are they?

Vanora Bennett, Tom de Waal, Calotta Gall, Anatol Lievin are some of the authors you can look in to if your serous enough - they've all written books on their experiences in Chechnya - theres more but i cant remember of the top of my head

Gee, I ask for information and all you have as insults. Why doesn't that surprise me?

no, you didnt ask for info, you suggested it was propaganda before even seeing it and bought up some silly story that i have never mentioned - if you act like a fool, you get reated like one

but i was out of order so id like to apologise for that

It is good that I got a great nights sleep before facing your pointless misguided rage. You need a "Chill Pill".

and you need to learn to think before typing - both of us have a long way to go in the learning experience of our internet forum careers :peace:

[SATalha]

Exactly Wilber read the books that Brother Chechen has given also see if you can locate a book called "small corner of hell, dispatches from Chechnya" By Anna Politkosayava. An excellent and also un-biased account of Chechnya. Until you have done that stop making post that show your absolute ignorance of this issue.

[wilberhum]

Chechnya and

Exactly Wilber read the books that Brother Chechen has given also see if you can locate a book called "small corner of hell, dispatches from Chechnya" By Anna Politkosayava. An excellent and also un-biased account of Chechnya. Until you have done that stop making post that show your absolute ignorance of this issue.

Now why do I want to spend a bunch of money and go hide for endless hours reading about 4 or 5 people’s views of the situation?

I will check on "small corner of hell, dispatches from Chechnya" though.

What I care about is multiple news sources. You soon learn where the bias is.

But if you don't mind, I won't take you brilliant advice about ignoring situations because I don't have full knowledge. Why should I? You don't. It is obvious you keep going on about things where your knowledge level approaches zero.

[Chechen]

Dokka Umarov is reorganizing and changing some things, like the declaration of the Caucasus Emirate, so we should wait and see the results. Here's the official declaration of the Caucasus Emirate:

In The Name Of Allah The Most Gracious The Most Merciful



Assalamualeikum Wa Rahmatulahi Wa Barakatu,



Praise be to Allah, whom we praise and pray for help and forgiveness. To Him we resort of our souls from the evil and from our bad deeds.

Those put on the right track by Allah will never be mislead by anyone except Him, and those diverted by Him will never be lead properly by anybody.



I testify that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah and Mohammad is His slave and His Messenger, may peace and blessings of Allah be upon him



And then:


I appeal to the Mujahideen who are fighting in the Caucasus and the oppressed Muslims of Idel-Ural, Siberia and other parts of the occupied Rusnya (Russia).

I would like to remind the fact that many Muslims are inclined to forget: Russian kafirs (infidels) have occupied our land and swinish life is being imposed on us for a long period of time. This is a punishment of Allah because we have moved away from his right path, because nothing could happen in the world without the will of Allah, praise to Him the Almighty.

Only imagine, how Allah is incensed at us, taking into consideration the fact that he's send this nation on us. The nation, which is considered to be the most contemptible and the poorest among the kafirs.

Our glorious ancestors were waging Jihad against these enemies, and today Allah is testing out generation, as he tested our fathers. Everything is repeating. The Jihad reveals faith and disbelief. Today, as in earlier times, people are divided on Mujahideen, hypocrites, and apostates.

I'm not talking about the native kafirs - it is a naked lie and the dirt in human guise. They are dogs, hell dogs, which Allah hound on Muslims when they depart from their religion.



We, the Mujahideen, went out to fight the infidels not for the sake of fighting but to restore the Shariah of Allah in our land.

Allah says that He does not change the condition of people until they change themselves.

Today, as throughout history, our condition can only be changed with a weapon in hand. If Allah's Religion could be established on Earth using another method, then our Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, would not have engaged in twenty seven battles.



There is no power and no power acquiring except through Allah. At the same time Allah tell us to heed our cause and prepare our forces to wage war, as much as we can.

This does not mean that we must have equal means to the kafirs. This is impossible at this time but don't be mistaken, the victory of Muslims will come, inshaAllah, not because of the numbers of warriors or an abundance of weapons; it will come because of our fear of Allah. And fear of Allah comes to a soul and alters behavior when a Muslim is afraid of violating limits of that which is permitted and forbidden as established by Allah.

The most important prohibition is contained in the formula of the faith itself; "La Ilaha Illa Allah".

Repeating these great words is easy and simple, but putting them into practice is not easy and simple. Achieving Paradise is not easy and not simple.



Allah the Most High warns us in the Quran that he will not forgive Shirk (the act of associating partners with Allah) but He may forgive anything other than this, if He wills.

Muslims must be afraid of Shirk always throughout their lives. Therefore, we the Mujahideen, reject any laws, rules and establishments that do not come from Allah.

Jihad against Russian kafirs has never stopped; it was revived sixteen years ago in Chechenistan (Chechnya) when Dzhokhar Dudayev, may Allah have mercy on him, by the will of Allah became the leader of Chechen people. Since then several leaders have served. We ask Allah to bless their Jihad and all brothers who preceded us.



Whatever political slogans were pronounced and whatever words used to describe it, those who went out to fight against Russian kafirs spoke only of Jihad and martyrdom for His sake and each will be awarded according to their intentions, inshaAllah.

Every leader of the Jihad spoke and acted according to his understanding of the religion and the situation. We, inshaAllah, do not condemn or criticize them, but ask Allah to have mercy on us and on them.



By the will of Allah, praise be to Him the Most High, it was my destiny to leader of the Jihad. The Most High knows that I did not want this nor did I seek this responsibility for I never thought that I could carry such burden. But since it was my destiny, I will lead and organize the Jihad according to the understanding given to me by Allah the Almighty.



I announce to all Muslims that I am waging a war against infidels under the banner of "La Ilaha Illa Allah".



This means that as the Amir of Mujahideen in Caucasus I reject everything associated with Taghut. I reject all kafir laws established in the world.

I reject all laws and systems established by infidels in the land of Caucasus.

I reject all names used by infidels to divide Muslims.

I declare ethnic, territorial and colonial zones carrying names of "North-Caucasian republics", "Trans-Caucasian Republics" and other such terms as outlawed.



I am officially declaring of creation of the Caucasus Emirate.

All lands in Caucasus, where Mujahideen who gave bayah (oath) to me wage Jihad, I declare velayats (states) of the Caucasus Emirate including Dagestan, Nokhchiycho (Chechnya), Ghalghaycho (Ingushetia), Iriston (Ossetia), the Nogay steppe and the combined areas of Kabarda, Bulkar and Karachay.



I do not believe it is necessary to draw the borders of the Caucasus Emirate.

Firstly, because Caucasus is occupied by infidels and apostates and it is Dar al-Harb, the territory of war. Our first task is to make the Caucasus Dar al-Islam, establishing the Shariah throughout the land and expelling the infidels.

Secondly, after expelling the infidels we must reclaim all historical lands of Muslims, and these borders are beyond the boundaries of Caucasus.

I foresee objections of all educated and uneducated hypocrites, who will assert that we are establishing an abstract, virtual state. I would like to say, inshaAllah, the Caucasus Emirate is a formation that is more real than all artificial colonial zones existing today.

We will religiously, methodically, step by step introduce and enforce the Shariah order in our land.

The establishment of Shariah is an elevation of Allah's word, and it is the essence of Jihad.



Almighty Allah says in Holy Quran:



"Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain: a promise binding on Him in truth, through the Law, the Gospel, and the Qur'an: and who is more faithful to his covenant than Allah. then rejoice in the bargain which ye have concluded: that is the achievement supreme." (9:111)



We will wage irreconcilable war with anyone who would oppose the establishment of the Shariah, inshaAllah. Let not think those who openly violate the establishments of God, defying Islamic religion, leave it with impunity. This is a serious mistake.



Those who were staying behind and dodging the Jihad have an assortment of arguments. One of them is "democracy" that we previously left intact and did not attach enough importance to due to a misunderstanding. I accept this argument and we reject these names and titles.

It is time to coordinate our intentions, our words and deeds. On that horrible day, when we will stand in front of our Creator, I don't want to be accused when excuses will be looked for. I fear Allah's punishment and therefore will state once more the banner under which we went forth for Jihad.

We went forth for Jihad to establish the Shariah of Allah and we will strive for His sake, and the result is Allah's.

I have said it earlier and repeat again; we are an inseparable part of the Islamic Ummah. I am saddened by the position of those Muslims who declare as their enemies only those kafirs who attacked them directly. And at the same time they seek support and sympathy from other kafirs, forgetting that all infidels are one nation.

Today in Afghanistan, Iraq, Somalia and Palestine our brothers are fighting. Those who attack Muslims are our common enemies wherever they are. Our enemy is not Russia only, but also anyone who wages war against Islam and Muslims. They are our enemies because they are enemies of Allah.

Once again I foresee condemnation of this position by the hypocrites and panic among the weak Muslims but not from the firm Muslims. Typical arguments in such cases include that it is a foolish policy, that we will set the whole world against ourselves.

Subhanallah! It is as if the whole world of infidels and apostates is not already waging war against Muslims. In this regard, I would to say to the dissenters that the real and wise policy is that which is based on the Quran and the Sunnah. The foolish policy is based on hollow expectations, incomprehensible fantasies and fear of a visible power.



It is written in Holy Quran in the surrah of al-Imran:



"Men said to them: "A great army is gathering against you": And frightened them: But it (only) increased their Faith: They said: "For us Allah sufficeth, and He is the best disposer of affairs." (3:173)



Allah said: "I'm the one, who my slave considers me to be". If Muslims believe that Allah made them weak, frail, then they are weak. If Muslims believe that Allah made them strong, and believe in his protection and assistance, then they are strong. And we see these signs at every step and in every day.



Therefore, I claim that we, the Mujahideen are a force. And we believe, inshaAllah with our hands Allah will crush and humiliate infidels and apostates.

Our strength in our faith and inf the fear of God.



And I remind the Mujahideen who are fighting for the sake of Allah and on behalf of the oppressed and humiliated Muslims that as Amir of Mujahideen in Caucasus I am the only legitimate power in all territories where there are Mujahideen who gave their oath to me as the leader of Jihad.

All Muslims have an obligation to help Mujahideen in every way they can. Let it be remembered that the kafirs and apostates among the local collaborators are targets for elimination, and not subjects of authority.

I ask Almighty Allah to direct to the path of truth, first of all me, my companions, all Muslims who believe in Allah and his Messenger (pbuh), and in Day of Judgment, which will inevitably occur.


Allahu Akbar! Allahu Akbar! Allahu Akbar!

25 Ramadan 1428

Amir of the Caucasus Emirate,
Dokka Umarov

http://kavkazcenter.com/eng/content/.../22/9107.shtml

[al-muslimah]

May Allah bless the mujahideen of Sheeshan indeed they are winning.Dokku Umarov is really smart mashallah.May Allah accep them all as shuhaada inshallah.They were honored by everyone and especially Ameer Khattab(RH).

[wilberhum]

May Allah bless the mujahideen of Sheeshan indeed they are winning.Dokku Umarov is really smart mashallah.May Allah accep them all as shuhaada inshallah.They were honored by everyone and especially Ameer Khattab(RH).

Maybe this is a good place for you to start your Offensive Jihad.

[al-muslimah]

Maybe this is a good place for you to start your Offensive Jihad.--wilberhumm

Nah. I was thinking Palestine or Iraq, maybe Afghanistan.

[Keltoi]

Maybe this is a good place for you to start your Offensive Jihad.--wilberhumm

Nah. I was thinking Palestine or Iraq, maybe Afghanistan.

Great. Perhaps you should start packing instead of talking about it on an internet forum.

[al-muslimah]

Great. Perhaps you should start packing instead of talking about it on an internet forum.--keltoi

Hahaha. U guys are funny!

[SATalha]

Do people realy think that the Chechen people after all they have been through, deserve to be free from Russian oppression? Nah i gues not.......what will replace them.......Islam? Oh surely NOT ISLAM....mind you its very itresting to see the progress of Islam the Truth in Russia.

[wilberhum]

Do people realy think that the Chechen people after all they have been through, deserve to be free from Russian oppression? Nah i gues not.......what will replace them.......Islam? Oh surely NOT ISLAM....mind you its very itresting to see the progress of Islam the Truth in Russia.

Why do you think most don't think the Chechen people deserve from Russia?

I don't know of any non pro-Russian that doesn't think so.

I surly do. I just don't back child killers.

[SATalha]

I still havent read anything concrete or seen anything that puts the stamp on the Chechen Freedom fighters for Beslan.....can you provide something?

[wilberhum]

I still havent read anything concrete or seen anything that puts the stamp on the Chechen Freedom fighters for Beslan.....can you provide something?

Just international news from many sources over a long period of time.

Nothing I can really point you to. Just do searches and see what you see.

Remember there is a lot of bias propaganda out there. From both sides.

[SATalha]

I have read about from many sources Wilber....but still its like no public inquiry is allowed...no journalist are allowed to investigate it? why?

Anyway lets put that outside....what about the Russian Appartment bombings......i mean if the FSB can do such a thing to their own people...then what else are they capable of.......Beslen maybe. Allah knows best.

[wilberhum]

SATalha,
I don't think the Russian government is above acts such as what happened in Beslen.

But they didn't. The Chechen terrorists did.

[SATalha]

how about the Pro-Russain Chechens.....could they of carried out the attack...to make it look as if the Islamic Chechen Militants did it? Could that be a possibility.....i mean we all know the deep hate that Ramzan Kadyrov has for the resistance.

[wilberhum]

SATalha,
There is little that is not possible.

But it is becomming obvious that you are not looking for facts, you are looking for excuses.

[SATalha]

I could say the same to you....you are looking for an excuse to blamce the Chechen freedom fighters......its not a FACT that they did it. Many things are still disputed. At the end of the day we have to use logic.........would it suit the Russian Authority to blame Beslen on the Chechen Mujahids? Yes it would......becuase it shows them in bad light and gains sypathy from the Russian public....enrages them......makes them want to continue the war in chechnya.

[wilberhum]

I could say the same to you....you are looking for an excuse to blamce the Chechen freedom fighters......its not a FACT that they did it. Many things are still disputed. At the end of the day we have to use logic.........would it suit the Russian Authority to blame Beslen on the Chechen Mujahids? Yes it would......becuase it shows them in bad light and gains sypathy from the Russian public....enrages them......makes them want to continue the war in chechnya.

As I thought you are only interested in backing up your bias.

My mistake, I thought you were looking for honest answers.

[SATalha]

Honest answers need to be backed with facts......like you say.....your answers are not backed with facts neither are mine. I can aknowledge the possibility that the Chechen Mujahids might of carried out the attack on Beslen. CAN YOU aknowledge the possibility that it might not of been the Mujahids and it could of been an inside job by the Russains with the help of Pro-Russian Chechens.????? WELL could you wilber.

[wilberhum]

SATalha

Honest answers need to be backed with facts

You seem to think I'm trying to sell you something. I could care less what you think. I have my given you my openion and how I came to it. I have nothing to prove.

I'm done with your sillyness. Believe what makes you feel good and ignore the facts. Many do just that.

[SATalha]

Wilber do i sense some angar in your tone? :) all iam saying is that you have not presented any facts........directing the blame on the Mujahids. And all iam saying is that its disputed. NOW NOW:D

[SATalha]

What facts are you talking about????? Esplain

I want the proof saying the Chechen Mujahids carried out the attack.....i dont know a video statment maybe somthing Wilber give me something. You claim to be a person who bases their views on facts yet you cannot provide it. Look all iam saying is lets leave Beslan as a question mark. Its yet to be proved. Mean while we can judge the Mujahids on what they have done.......and what is based on facts. Lets see shall we........all i can re-call from my memory is that they have waged a war against the Russian Army......with legitimate reason. The wiping out of nearly an entire population is sound enough for me.

Wilber forgive me if i have angared you.

[al-muslimah]

What facts are you talking about????? Esplain

I want the proof saying the Chechen Mujahids carried out the attack.....i dont know a video statment maybe somthing Wilber give me something. You claim to be a person who bases their views on facts yet you cannot provide it. Look all iam saying is lets leave Beslan as a question mark. Its yet to be proved. Mean while we can judge the Mujahids on what they have done.......and what is based on facts. Lets see shall we........all i can re-call from my memory is that they have waged a war against the Russian Army......with legitimate reason. The wiping out of nearly an entire population is sound enough for me.

Wilber forgive me if i have angared you.

Even Beslan and Nor-Ost I can understand its not their fault they aren't the ones who killed them the russians did when they stormed in the school and said oh the chehchen extremists did it.Wallahi one chechen Muslims life is more worth than all those people in the nord-ost theater.Its just 1 little incident the chechens have been going through this for centuries even under that marxist Stalin.
Why are u asking for his forgiveness?? u did nothing wrong. Let him be angry really angrytill his eyes pop.

[Chechen]

BESLAN, Russia, July 28 (Reuters) - Previously unseen film proves that the bloody end to the 2004 Beslan siege was caused by security forces firing on a school crammed with hostages, not by blasts from within, a victim support group says.

The Beslan Mothers' Committee says the footage disproves the official version that the detonation of a boobytrap device planted by Chechen separatists inside the building caused the carnage at School No.1, in the southern Russian town of Beslan.

http://www.reuters.com/article/lates.../idUSL28685812

Everytime the Russians accused the Chechens of something it always turned out that the Russians were responsible and Chechens innocent and people always finished by finding out the truth and with Beslan aswell people will discover what really happened. Sooner or later the truth is always found. You just have to look and see which side gains what from this. The Chechens: Nothing. They get absolutely nothing from killing a bunch of children apart from hate from everyone. The Russians: They get rid of a few Chechen rebels and get the public against the Chechens so that they can continue their genocide without anyone bothering them.

[wilberhum]

I don't know about any place else, but in the US, if someone is killed while you are committing a crime, you are guilty of murder.

[al-muslimah]

BESLAN, Russia, July 28 (Reuters) - Previously unseen film proves that the bloody end to the 2004 Beslan siege was caused by security forces firing on a school crammed with hostages, not by blasts from within, a victim support group says.

The Beslan Mothers' Committee says the footage disproves the official version that the detonation of a boobytrap device planted by Chechen separatists inside the building caused the carnage at School No.1, in the southern Russian town of Beslan.

http://www.reuters.com/article/lates.../idUSL28685812

Everytime the Russians accused the Chechens of something it always turned out that the Russians were responsible and Chechens innocent and people always finished by finding out the truth and with Beslan aswell people will discover what really happened. Sooner or later the truth is always found. You just have to look and see which side gains what from this. The Chechens: Nothing. They get absolutely nothing from killing a bunch of children apart from hate from everyone. The Russians: They get rid of a few Chechen rebels and get the public against the Chechens so that they can continue their genocide without anyone bothering them.

See told u so? and they call us terrorists these russians actually killed their own kind just to get them. May Allah protect our sheeshan and wallahi Russia is gonna regret everything they ever dead to our Muslim brothers and sisters. So will that monkey face vladmir putin.What a shaytan he is!!