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mmc
12-27-2004, 05:55 PM
:sl:

I got question? ???

Are we allow to listen to "Soldier of Islam" ? I mean music is haram in islam then??

???

:sl:
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WomanOfJihad
12-27-2004, 06:24 PM
:sl:

hmm.. as far as i know. Anasheed containing instruments are nt Allowed .. However Dhuff is n Exception.. never listened to the Soldiers of Islam.. so Allahu Alim.. but .. one thing is Definate .. Anasshed containing instruments are Haram.. For example Al Muallim i realised lots of pple loved it . but pity we cant LIsten to it due to the TONES of Instruments being used .. Allahu Alim
Reply

Ummatee
12-27-2004, 09:13 PM
erm Brother Aamir saab... just in contribution to wat Woman of jihad sed hers sumthng tht might help you:

To assert on the basis of some Ahaadith that to listen to Islamic songs with music in the background is incorrect. Several Ahaadith clearly prohibit the use of the drum as well as other musical instruments. Consider the following Ahaadith:

* Hadhrat Ibn Mas’ood (Radhiallaahu Ánhu) reports that Rasulullah (Sallallaahu Alayhi Wasallam) declared every wine, gambling, beating of drums and every intoxicant as Haraam. (Abu Dawud)

* Hadhrat Ali (Radhiallaahu Ánhu) narrates that Rasulullah (Sallallaahu Alayhi Wasallam) prohibited the beating of drums. (Kanzul Ummaal)

* The Kubah (drum) is Haraam. (Bayhaqi; Musnad Bazzar)

These Ahaadith are general and prohibit the beating of the drum. Those who claim that the beating of drums is permissible generally use the Hadith wherein it is reported that Rasulullah (Sallallaahu Alayhi Wasallam) said, ‘Announce the Nikah even though it be with the Duff.’ (Mishkat)

In another narration, it is reported that Rasulullah (Sallallaahu Alayhi Wasallam) passed by little girls who were beating drums. (Ibn Maajah)

:) hope it helps everyoene inshALlah Ameen..!!!!
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Ummatee
12-31-2004, 06:19 PM
Right..
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Sheikh Haroon
01-02-2005, 12:10 PM
Salaam All.

Firstly, all music is not haraam. There are two types of music. U have that which is used for good, i.e. in nasheeds, in educational software, in calming tunes, and then theres the bad, repulsive music, like that associated with drug culture, or dirty sexually motivated music. Love songs and the like, they are all bad. That is islam on music.

Who said music is not allowed in islam? Quran is silent over this topic and where Quran remain quite it means that matter is leave for us may we do or may not. poetry and music are leave upon us, but Allah have imposed a general rule that keep yourself away from bad things, this rule apply here too. So the poetry or music create bad senstions is not good otherwise there is nothing wrong with good poetry or music.

It is true that by listening to certain types of music, it does not mean that the culture the music is associated with will be taken up, yes i agree. However, i do believe that it is in the best interests of the ummah to keep away from such ideals presented by certain themes and songs. Let us talk about the love songs then. I do not think that they are inherently evil, but what i do say is that they promote, and hence weaken the islamic principles of, fornication. It is a very seeing and hearing world out there; people are influenced by what they see and hear alot. This is one of the reasons that youngsters take up fornication and premarital intimacy, because of the fact that it is shown, promoted and spoken highly of by the voices out there. People dont like to feel out of society, they dont like to stand out, and Islam does tend to stick out a bit, with regards to modern practises, i.e. clubs, dating and all the other things that youth are preoccupied with in their free time. So, if the social voices out there are promoting evil, i.e. like Justin Timberlake's "I wanna rock your body", then it is, i believe, correct to abstain from such music, such abhorent voices, and to keep our people away from them too.

Some love songs talk about the heart. I do not believe that they are wrong, because one can put himself in the situation and can be inspired to strengthen the heart-God relationship. I mean, some songs really do touch your heart, and amusingly they remind u of Allah! I mean, even though all the lyrics are not exactly approved of, ill admit that when i first heard "My heart will go on", it deeply touched me, not really the words, but the feel of the music, it hits u in the heart, and it can be very very inspiring at times.

And Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala knows best.
Reply

Dhahabi
02-19-2005, 03:11 PM
Evils of Music

By Maulana I. Suleman

Assalamu Alaikum dear respected brothers, sisters, learned scholars, friends, and colleagues.

In the 20th century, as we approach its end, we have a big fuss being made over the new millennium. In England, we see the fuss in the form of a big dome. We have the fuss over the computer millenium bug. One way or the other, whether we read the papers, listen to the radio, listen to the reports by journalists on sky, the essential argument that is put forward is that the millennium will bring something bad with it and mankind has to do something to fight it otherwise we, as human beings, will be at a loss. If we look at the book, Ghost in the Machine written by Arthur Kestler, he looks at the 20th century and his main argument is that society, in the 20th century, has reached a stage as a direct result of scientific experiementations that people are at a stage that you can program them in whichever way you want. His argument is referred to as behaviourism. The scientists have discovered that if we give mankind a certain amount of training to do something, he will go that way without us doing anything. So, it is as though our minds are programmed to respond in a certain way given the right circumstances. A small example is that you can train a rat to do anything and this is the example Arthur Kestler gives in his book. You can train a rat to go and take the long route for its food. Likewise, in the modern day we have certain traps and tricks of Shaytaan to beguile mankind, not just the Muslims. Mankind is losing the identity that it acquired naturally regardless of what religion he follows.

The concept of behaviourism, programming the mind to behave in a certain way is evident today in Europe and America. The young generation of Muslims growing up in western society has been programmed to ponder upon three or four issues that must be very important to him because these are the things that give him popularity, street credit, worth on the street. It revolves around these four issues. And all these four issues deal with the outside of a person.

In England, 500 million pounds is spent on male cosmetics, not even women cosmetics like lipstick and nail polish, but 500 million pounds is spent only on male cosmetics. Why? Because the argument is put forward that the only reason you are going to get any worth, any status, is by the way you look. Which clothes do you wear? Which designer labels do you have in your closet? Do you wear Armani? Do you wear Ralph Lauren Polo? Do you drive a Mercedes? Your look is a trade worth 500 million pounds. So the brain has been programmed this way: You should have this product and the brain has been programmed to believe that if you dont have this product, you will have no street credit.

The other issue that occurs is which political party or trend to you support. And this does not occur until you enter the doors of a university. This will give you your street credit. Are you to the right? Are you to the left? Or are you in the middle?

The third issue is that what type of sport do you indulge in. This may mean the football team you support because that is going to give you street credit. That is going to make you look cool.

And the fourth issue is the type of music you listen to. And this fourth issue doesnt just affect the youngsters of today, but it affects the adults, the youth, and the old-aged pensioners. It is on a global level that the damage is being done. The music industry, on a global level, is worth one billion dollars. That is the music trade. If you compare those figures to the economic figures of some third world countries, you will find on the one hand, you have one billion dollars of the music industry and on the other hand, countries like Africa, a third world country, does not even generate more than half a billion. In 1997 in England, according to figures published by the corporate intelligence in London, just the music cassettes and records and CDs were worth 1, 767,000,000 pounds. And this is only in England. And they informed us that by the year 2002, you can expect the sales to go up to 2 billion pounds. These figures tell you that the interest in music will increase day by day. The sales on Hi-fi equipment (record players, CD players, stereo systems, etc.) in 1997 was worth 1,492,000,000 pounds and in the year 2002 that number will go up to 1,500,000,000 pounds. From this, we can see that the music industry is never going to go down. And in the same report, it said that the new labour government has established a specific task force to make sure that music and the sale of music increases in England over the next generation period. If a young Muslim is trying to order something over the phone, hes told, Wait a minute, Sir, and you have the top ten hits blowing down your ears. You go to the Supermarket, Costco, Safeway, wherever you go, you have music pumped down your ears. Wherever we go, music is all around us, whether we listen to it or whether we claim not to listen to it, it is around us. And if we look at this issue in the Quranic teachings and Hadith teachings, we will see something different. Allama Qurtubi who belongs to the thirteen century said that in the whole of the Quran, there are three verses that refer to music. Im going to deal with one. The Quran says: And beguile whomsoever of them you can with your voice (17:64).
When Shaytaan was evicted from Paradise, he complained to Allah and a dialogue took place. Mufti Shafi included it in his book, Islam and Music, page 163. On the authority of Allama Ibnul Qayyum Al-Jowzy, a fourteenth century scholar, he narrates a dialogue between Shaytaan and Allah when Shaytaan. When he was evicted from Paradise, he complained to Allah, I have been evicted from Paradise and it is going to be my task to make human life on earth a mission impossible. Im going to make sure that he boards the joy ride to Hell. That is my mission, but I will need some tools for that.

Shaytaan said: Where will I go in the world?
Allah replied: Your place is the public baths i.e., swimming pools, beaches, etc. (places of nudity).

Shaytaan: Where will I sit and spend my time?
Allah: In the town centers, in the market places i.e., malls, shopping centers, street corners.

Shaytaan: What will be my food?
Allah: Every animal that is not slaughtered according to Shariah principle, in the name of Allahthat will be your food i.e., haraam food, and you influence will penetrate into the person who eats such a food. (What do we see in the world today?)

Shaytaan: What will be my drink:
Allah: Every intoxicant will be your drink. (Notice that the word intoxicant is used, which means anything that intoxicates and not only alcohol.)

Shaytaan: What will be my Quran?
Allah: Your Quran will be music.

Shaytaan: You will have a person who will call towards prayer and success, so who will be my prayer caller?
Allah: Your prayer caller will be the musician.
The Quran tells us music and musicians is this and society tells us music and musicians are something else. Compare the two versions.

Shaytaan further asks: What will be my speech with which my influence will permeate within that person?
Allah replied: Lies.

Shaytaan: What will be my trap with which I can fish the human being into coming towards my way?
Allah: Women.

So music in the modern day is an art and the musician in the modern day, is a celebrity and an artist. The Quran tells us that music is the voice of Shaytaan. The hadith tells us that music is the Quran of Shaytaan. Now we must think about the path we are taking. We have to use the intellect, which Allah has bestowed upon us. There is a verse in the Holy Quran that describes the Jewish community at the time of Madina, the time of the Prophet SAW. Today that verse is befitting upon the Muslim community. It states that their hearts were disunited because they did not use their intelligence. We, Muslims, have to think now and not let others bombard us with useless information. Is our life only going to a corner shop or a gas station or fighting in the mosque everytime we meet? Is that our life? We have to think beyond this. The Muslims were the people who have the world intelligence. Hamilton Gibb was an Oxford lecturer united by the Queen. William Watt was a lecturer at Edinburgh University. Im not quoting Muslims. These are non-Muslim orientalists that studied Islam and said that the Muslims were the people who give Europe its lifestyle and it was the Muslims who gave Europe the intelligence to think with. They gave them the principle, the methodology to think with and now we have taken it over, but we dont want to think.

We are like an alarm clock. It has a start button, a stop button, and a snooze button. We are at the snooze button. We just carry along with no care in the world. People can bombard us with any theory and we just accept it. Why? Because we are not using the Quran. Its there; its full of intelligence. Besides everything else, music is only one issue here.

And in todays world, music has taken a very dangerous turn. A man named Alister Crowley, who died in 1947 put forward a suggestion that people should learn to think backwards, write backwards, speak backwards and this theory of his was a Satanists. He was one who worshipped the devil and todays musicians have picked up on this theory. Musicians like Michael Jackson, Madonna, The Spice Girls, the Beatles, and all modern groups from the 60s to today are using Crowleys idea.
Music is worked out on three different levels. One is backtracking. This is when you play a record forward such as the song everyone seems to know, Another one bites the dust. If you play that record forward, you have the song, Another one bites the dust. But if you play it backwards with certain expensive tools, then the message on this song will be, Its fun to smoke marijuana. The argument put forward is that we cannot listen to the words, Its fun to smoke marijuana. Professor William Yellowed was a head of a company in the USA. He was told to carry out a study on the brain by the Pentagon. He is called over in a court hearing. A consumer committee was dealing with a complaint that an album by Led Zeppelin had backtracked messages and these backtracked messages were having a wrong affect on the mind and brain of a person and the court wanted Professor William Yellowed to confirm it. So he confirmed it and described how it happens. The brain is divided into two main areas. There is a right side and a left side and then there is a Euro-tunnel in the middle. Everything that we understand or tend to understand passes through the right side. If you understand it, then you understand it, but if you dont, then it will pass through this vacuum and go onto the left side and on the back of the left side, there is the sub-conscious memory, which is a very powerful too that Allah has given to human beings. It is called the cerebella. It works like a camera. If you give it a negative image, it will give you a positive message, so if you push through the brain a negative and backward sentence then it will read it frontwards. So, the phrase, Another one bites the dust will be understood as Its fun to smoke marijuana. And this sentence and message will stay there in the brain if you do not sit in the company of pious people. If you are spiritually very low, which is the big vacuum of the modern day society, that message will definitely affect you. What do we see today? This is the backtrack method.

The second level which music has worked out on is known as back masking. Music is written on seven notes. Ill try to make it a simple explanation. The fourth and fifth are the best notes. Another way around Satan: will be written as notes and then everything would be written the other way around and then youll have a new message.

Ninety-nine percent of books that are written on music are in favour of music. One percent of the works in the library are against music and in that you have to look with a microscope to find a sentence which is really against it. You may have heard two years ago about children who were killing their colleagues in school. Who knows that the cause may be the CDs they listen to in private in their bedrooms whilst parents are thinking that theyre doing their homework and at least they are not on the streets causing mischief.

The third level which music has worked out in the modern era is that the so-called artist, so-called celebrity is acting out the message on stage. Michael Jackson is well known for his immorality on stage. The Spice Girls and Madonna are also well known for this.

My brothers, music, drugs, and other activities are forms of drugs. If youre not pushed with the white powder drug then it is the drug of media. If its not the drug of the media then its the drug of music. If its not the drug of music, then its some other form of drug. All this is connected to what Arthur Kestler mentioned in this work, The Ghost in the Machine, which I mentioned in the beginning. It is related to behaviourism. You control people like that. People like Mic Jager of the Rolling Stones; he confirmed the big rows of disco lights and music is a powerful indoctrination tool and this is what youngsters are getting into. Sometimes if you look at a car and you check out the stereo system in it, youll find that the system is worth much more than the car. How can that be justified? The Quran tells us that the people who are expensive spenders are brothers of Shaytaan. And music is one other thing, which comes from the accursed devil. May Allah save our children and us from it!


Let us brothers in islam discuss this crucial topic
Reply

WomanOfJihad
02-19-2005, 03:24 PM
:sl:

JazakAllah for rising this topic in the forum... its very important .. considering todays youth . who r MusicManiac SubhanAlah ... from wat ive seen especialy the Sister ..along wit music they go Crazyy on the Singer as well..
or shud i say ADDICTEd ...

and as for Bak traking .. i m sure most pple must have heard abt it from the casete " THE SHADDOWS" its wrth listening...

:w:
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Uma Rayanah
02-19-2005, 03:35 PM
Aslaamu Alkium..

Jazakaa Allahu Khiraah...
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Dhahabi
04-18-2005, 12:22 PM
Assalamu alaikum

http://www.mohammedi.freeserve.co.uk/subliminals (hypnotism)

Allah knows best
Reply

MetSudaisTwice
04-18-2005, 12:35 PM
i can't stand haram music, the only tuneful thing i hear is the quranic recitations by SS. SAS and SST.
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Uthman
08-10-2005, 10:14 PM
:sl:

I bet that title lured you all right here ;) Being the claimant, I guess the burden of proof lies on me.

وَمِنَ النَّاسِ مَن يَشْتَرِي لَهْوَ الْحَدِيثِ لِيُضِلَّ عَن سَبِيلِ اللَّهِ بِغَيْرِ عِلْمٍ وَيَتَّخِذَهَا هُزُوًا أُولَئِكَ لَهُمْ عَذَابٌ مُّهِينٌ

Surah Luqman verse 6 (031:006)
But there are, among men, those who purchase idle tales, without knowledge (or meaning), to mislead (men) from the Path of Allah and throw ridicule (on the Path): for such there will be a Humiliating Penalty.

Sayydana Abdullah Ibn Masood was asked about the meaning of the verse to which he replied:

“I swear by Him besides whom there is no other God, that it refers to ghinaa (singing).”

Furthermore, let us not forget the hadith of Bukhari:

The Prophet Muhammad (SAWS) said:

"There will be people of my Ummah who will seek to make lawful; fornication, wine-drinking and the use of ma'aazif (musical instruments)."

This implies that ma'aazif was unlawful in the first place.

Are we agreed? :)

Reply

Zuko
08-10-2005, 10:20 PM
Originally Posted by Osman

Are we agreed? :)
Salaam,

Yes :p
Reply

Far7an
08-10-2005, 10:21 PM
Assalamu alaikum

Jazakallah khair Osman!!
Furthermore, let us not forget the hadith of Bukhari:

The Prophet Muhammad (SAWS) said:

"There will be people of my Ummah who will seek to make lawful; fornication, wine-drinking and the use of ma'aazif (musical instruments)."

COMMENTARY ON AL-BUKHAARI'S HADEETH:

The portion of Al-Bukhaari's hadeeth, which is presently of concern, is that segment whose text states:

"There will be a people of my ummah [nation] who will seek to make lawful: fornication, the wearing of silk, wine-drinking and the use of musical instruments..."

The word of consequence here is the Arabic term 'ma'aazif'. In order to discover what it implies, one must turn to Arabic dictionaries of hadeeth terms and other scholarly works. According to Lisaanul Arab,(*62) ma'aazif is the plural of mi'zaf or 'azf,(*63) and indicates objects or instruments of play or leisure which are beat upon for their sound. If the singular form is used (mi'zaf), it specifically means a type of large wooden drum used mainly by the people of Yemen. The noun 'azf also stands for the act of playing with ma'aazif, i.e. hand drums (dufoof)(*64) or other instruments which are struck upon. Al-Jowhari, the author of the ancient dictionary, As-Sihaah, asserts that ma'aazif signifies musical instruments, al-'aazif indicates one who sings, and the 'azf of the wind is its voice.(*65) In the famous Taajul 'Aroos min Jawaahiril Qaaamoos, besides quoting the above-mentioned meanings, the commentator Az-Zabeedi says that ma'aazif are instruments of leisure which are drummed upon or played, like the lute ('ood), the drum (tanboor), the small hand drum (daff) or other such musical objects.(*66) And finally, in the famous dictionary, An-Nihaayah fee Ghareebil Hadeeth,(*67) Ibnul-Atheer mentions the meaning of ma'aazif as it is used in various hadeeths. He comments, "By 'azf is meant playing with ma'aazif, consisting of dufoof [hand drums] or other instruments which are beat upon." He also mentions the derived noun form, 'azeef, which means "sound" or voice", while 'azeeful jinn signifies the ringing of the jinns' voices. It is said that the people of the desert imagined the shrill ringing of the winds in the desert air to be the voice of jinns.(*68)

The commentaries of the scholars of hadeeth also agree on the above-quoted meaninings for the term maazif mentioned in Al-Bukhaari's narration. In Ibn Hajar's exhaustive commentary of Saheehul Bukhaari,(*69) he adds that an earlier hadeeth scholar, named Ad-Dimyaati, says that the word 'azf is also used to describe singing (ghinaa).(*70)

Such a detailed analysis of the meaning of the term ma'aazif, as mentioned in the most authoritative dictionaries of the Arabic language, is necessary to refute any others' possible attempts to "explain away" or "interpret" it in a matter suiting their preconceived notions or opinions. It clearly has been established that the word ma'aazif - according to correct Arabic usage - indicates a specific number of things: (a) musical instruments, (b) the sounds of those musical instruments (music) and (c) singing to instrumental accompaniment.

The Islamic Ruling on Music and Singing
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Z
08-10-2005, 10:23 PM
Asalamu Alaikum

Oooh, is percussion haraam also?
Reply

SalafiFemaleJih
08-10-2005, 10:30 PM
its haraaam its haraaam its haraaam....im reminding myself...yeah.

jazakAllah kher for the reminder akhi osman...May Allah swt reward u with Jannah ameen.

wasalamualaikum wr wb.
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czgibson
08-10-2005, 10:50 PM
Originally Posted by Osman
Instruments are often described as the voice of Satan.
^
(Quote from another thread)

This implies that ma'aazif was unlawful in the first place.
Are we agreed? :)
Yes, I agree it certainly does imply that. My question is why? What's wrong with music?

I love music. I play the piano and the violin a little bit, but my main instrument is the guitar (an Arabic invention?). I play all the styles of music I can, from rock to jazz to classical to gypsy flamenco. It is quite a shock to be told that during all the many hours of work and practice I've put into advancing on the instrument I've simply been emitting the voice of Satan.
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Ansar Al-'Adl
08-10-2005, 11:55 PM
Peace Callum,
Can you identify some things within the music industry which Islam would consider immoral? Can you see how music can inspire such things?

On the subject of Islam's ruling on music, it is agreed that music with profance lyrics, encouraging sinful behaviour, and glorifying immoral deeds, all this is considered haraam (prohibited) in Islam. But with regards to music that can be beneficial, then there is a difference of opinion. The majority of scholars prohibit instrumental music as such thngs normally lead to man becoming lost in the petty pleasures of this world and indulging in the fulfillment of desires. Islam directs man towards worshipping their Creator and using our limited time in this life to benefit ourselves in the next life.
http://members.tripod.com/oum_abdulaziz/music4.html#I

As for spending one's time in the craft of satan, I would say that killing is the craft of Satan yet humanity spends countless resources to invent more powerful weapons to wipe out its own kind.

Peace.
Reply

czgibson
08-11-2005, 12:40 AM
Originally Posted by Ansar Al-'Adl
Peace Callum,
Can you identify some things within the music industry which Islam would consider immoral? Can you see how music can inspire such things?
[In the text of the Islamic ruling on music that you linked me to, it said that sport was a good alternative to music. Among the sports mentioned were martial arts and marksmanship. The obvious question to ask is: can you see how those disciplines could inspire actions Islam would consider immoral?]

With regard to your first question, I certainly can. However, many of those things are down to the music industry rather music itself. To survive in a capitalist economy, the music industry needs to make profits. The easiest to way to make profits is to cater for the lowest common denominator, filling songs with lyrics about sex or violence and music videos featuring girls with hardly any clothes dancing about in a ridiculous manner. Obviously this is contrary to the teachings of Islam. However, that is no reason to condemn all secular music. The people who make "music" of the kind I have described represent a tiny minority in the history of music. The point I'm trying to make is that music did not inspire such actions and words, money did.

I don't really see how instrumental music can be considered as leading to sin. There are some truly beautiful pieces of music in the world which do not have lyrics directing people to be violent, lustful or whatever. I'm thinking of things like Francisco Tarrega's elegant meditation "Recuerdos del Alhambra", about the famous palace complex in Granada in Spain, or Edward Elgar's Cello Concerto in E minor, an immensely moving elegy inspired by the horrors of the First World War. Works of art like this help people to come to terms with their history, to understand themselves and where they came from. Is it sinful to appreciate such things?

For me, the most impressive thing about music is its ability to bring people together. It's a cliche, but only because it's true. Sometimes, when people are brought together by something like music, they can accomplish great things. Think of Live Aid, in 1985, which sent an estimated $100 million to help feed the starving in Africa. Or, of course, the recent Live 8 concerts, intended to change the minds of political leaders regarding third world debt and unfair trade restrictions. Are these petty matters? Of course not.

Would you be happier if all secular music was banned, and such benefits would not be available, not to mention the pleasure that music brings to countless millions around the world?

As you can see, I'm quite passionate about this. I believe music (and all the arts) are of immense importance and benefit to humanity.

As for spending one's time in the craft of satan, I would say that killing is the craft of Satan yet humanity spends countless resources to invent more powerful weapons to wipe out its own kind.
Absolutely. The weapons industry is the second largest industry in the world, or so I'm told. It's such a shame that as a species we don't seem to be able to trust each other.

Peace - the aim of life?

Regards
Reply

Khojestah
08-11-2005, 01:09 AM
Originally Posted by Osman
:sl:

I bet that title lured you all right here ;) Being the claimant, I guess the burden of proof lies on me.

وَمِنَ النَّاسِ مَن يَشْتَرِي لَهْوَ الْحَدِيثِ لِيُضِلَّ عَن سَبِيلِ اللَّهِ بِغَيْرِ عِلْمٍ وَيَتَّخِذَهَا هُزُوًا أُولَئِكَ لَهُمْ عَذَابٌ مُّهِينٌ

Surah Luqman verse 6 (031:006)
But there are, among men, those who purchase idle tales, without knowledge (or meaning), to mislead (men) from the Path of Allah and throw ridicule (on the Path): for such there will be a Humiliating Penalty.

Sayydana Abdullah Ibn Masood was asked about the meaning of the verse to which he replied:

“I swear by Him besides whom there is no other God, that it refers to ghinaa (singing).”

Furthermore, let us not forget the hadith of Bukhari:

The Prophet Muhammad (SAWS) said:

"There will be people of my Ummah who will seek to make lawful; fornication, wine-drinking and the use of ma'aazif (musical instruments)."

This implies that ma'aazif was unlawful in the first place.

Are we agreed? :)

is music without instrunments haram, i'm talking about music that keeps u in the thought of Allah (SWT). like music by kamaluddin, he uses no instrunments,
Reply

Abdul Fattah
08-11-2005, 01:58 AM
Well I guess the point is not that music is bad pro forma but rather dangerous. You'r wright that a lot depends on how it's used. The fact is, and this isn't even a religious claim, but psychologicly true, that music has a way of speaking to the subconscience. When you'r down a certain song can push you deeper. When you'r in love a certain song can make you smile. Sometimes even without words, just a rythm can change your mood from sad to happy or vice versa in seconds. I'd say that's something we need to be carefull with. This doesn't mean it's all bad, and that it can't be used in a good way. Concider alcohol for example, it also has it's benefits, but that doesn't make us drink it, now does it? And wichever way you turn it, society is better of without alcohol. I'm not saying ban music, but I'm sure you catch my drift.
Reply

Ansar Al-'Adl
08-11-2005, 02:03 AM
:sl:
Originally Posted by Khojestah
is music without instrunments haram, i'm talking about music that keeps u in the thought of Allah (SWT). like music by kamaluddin, he uses no instrunments,
I'd have to hear it to be sure, but from your description, I would say that most scholars would not consider it haraam.

Hello Callum,
[In the text of the Islamic ruling on music that you linked me to, it said that sport was a good alternative to music. Among the sports mentioned were martial arts and marksmanship. The obvious question to ask is: can you see how those disciplines could inspire actions Islam would consider immoral?]
The only thing I can think of that you might be hinting at is inspiring violence. However, having been involved in Martial Arts myself, I know that discipline and self-control are amongst the greatest fundamentals of martial arts. Any Martial Artist will tell you that actual fighting is a very small part of martial arts. But if the instructor teaching whatever form of martial arts it was did not educate his students on self-control and the appropriate situations in which to use violence, then I would say that such training could be considered harmful as well if it was indeed inciting violence, contrary to the principles of Islam.

However, that is no reason to condemn all secular music. The people who make "music" of the kind I have described represent a tiny minority in the history of music. The point I'm trying to make is that music did not inspire such actions and words, money did.
I understand your point about money, but I still believe that music is one of the biggest tools being used by the secularist to bring about their revolution in the west which consists of a rejection of traditional values and encouraging indulging one's desires. At many events which Islam would consider immoral, you will find that music is used to influence the environment heavily. I'm sure my fellow Muslims here know some other Muslims who listen to music, and they can easily be distinguished from the more pious Muslims who focus on reading the Qur'an and praying etc. Moreover, music can have a very large negative influence on people's behaviours, the one example that comes to mind is the murders.

I don't really see how instrumental music can be considered as leading to sin. There are some truly beautiful pieces of music in the world which do not have lyrics directing people to be violent, lustful or whatever. I'm thinking of things like Francisco Tarrega's elegant meditation "Recuerdos del Alhambra", about the famous palace complex in Granada in Spain, or Edward Elgar's Cello Concerto in E minor, an immensely moving elegy inspired by the horrors of the First World War. Works of art like this help people to come to terms with their history, to understand themselves and where they came from. Is it sinful to appreciate such things?
I can understand your point here, but the kinds of music you speak of are outdated now. They have evolved into the forms of music we have today. So the emphasis on music in society has resulted in what we see today.

Of the kinds you mentioned before, I don't think classical is as bad as rock, but if you look at the history of music you will see that each form gradually evolved into a worse form (from an Islamic point of view). Some scholars wouldn't consider the forms of music you've mentioned in the above quote prohibited, and they certainly aren't as bad as the other forms, but I'm just pointing out that they have led to the other forms.

For me, the most impressive thing about music is its ability to bring people together. It's a cliche, but only because it's true. Sometimes, when people are brought together by something like music, they can accomplish great things. Think of Live Aid, in 1985, which sent an estimated $100 million to help feed the starving in Africa. Or, of course, the recent Live 8 concerts, intended to change the minds of political leaders regarding third world debt and unfair trade restrictions. Are these petty matters? Of course not.
Agreed. As long as it is done within the boundaries of Sharia there is no harm. In fact, our website has a large collection of Islamic music (Nasheeds) under the media section.

Would you be happier if all secular music was banned, and such benefits would not be available
Secular music is not the only way to achieve such benefits, however.
not to mention the pleasure that music brings to countless millions around the world?
Drugs have also brought pleasure to countless millions around the world.

To repeat, Islam does not say that all forms of music are prohibted, indeed there is a vast range of music that is considered permissable in Islam, so long as it does not lead people away from their religion.

Peace.
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Lateralus63
08-11-2005, 02:24 AM
:sl:

All i can say on this topic without looking stupid is, music has greatly helped me but it has greatly wounded me
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czgibson
08-11-2005, 06:52 PM
Originally Posted by Lateralus63
:sl:

All i can say on this topic without looking stupid is, music has greatly helped me but it has greatly wounded me
I'm very sorry to hear that; I've never heard of such a case before.

Oh, and never be afraid of looking stupid. Your right to have a view on something is as important as anyone else's. :)
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madaashaa
08-11-2005, 07:36 PM
salaams,

i don't think all types of music is haraam because it depends on what type of music it is. :zip:

i'm not properly sure though, but this is only what i think !!!

wassalaam

madaashaa. :wilted_ro
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ummnoura
08-11-2005, 08:27 PM
Well i think about what music leads too. Hear in America it's mostly bad. They play music at clubs full of Alcohol, drugs, dancing, mingling of sexes and terrible things. The songs, one popped in my head right now......"Its getting hot in here, so take off all your clothes"... this stuff is pollution of the mind. Its terrible really and its found everywhere. In cars, in malls, at schools ie, dances. I can see the people who waste all there life in music and it usually leads them to a bad road. I wouldnt dare condemn music as my husband used to play and enjoyed listening. I just think that if the prophet was against it then so should we be.
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Uthman
08-11-2005, 09:18 PM
:sl:

Personally, I'd rather listen to the glorious Qur'an being recited. As I have previously said in this thread:


Surah Ahzab verse 4


مَّا جَعَلَ اللَّهُ لِرَجُلٍ مِّن قَلْبَيْنِ فِي جَوْفِهِ

"Allah has not made for any man, two hearts in his body"

When Ibn Umar (May Allah be pleased with him) comments on this verse, he says that a heart that is full of Qur'an cannot be full of music. Truly, the words of Allah and the voice of Satan cannot co-exist in a single heart. Tis' hyprocritical! Nay, tis' a mockery of the highest order.

:w:

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SalafiFemaleJih
08-11-2005, 09:24 PM
Originally Posted by ummnoura
Well i think about what music leads too. Hear in America it's mostly bad. They play music at clubs full of Alcohol, drugs, dancing, mingling of sexes and terrible things. The songs, one popped in my head right now......"Its getting hot in here, so take off all your clothes"... this stuff is pollution of the mind. Its terrible really and its found everywhere. In cars, in malls, at schools ie, dances. I can see the people who waste all there life in music and it usually leads them to a bad road. I wouldnt dare condemn music as my husband used to play and enjoyed listening. I just think that if the prophet was against it then so should we be.
I know right.

Music in da car, music in da house, music at cousins, music in da mall, music even at some restrooms at resturants, music at the eating place music at school, N music on phone if u tryna hold.

I even heard music in parking lot in front of mosque : (

wherever I go I find music.....ahhh I'm getting sick of it.

my friend tells me "hello, welcome to america" lol

have mercy please : (

waslamaualaikum wr wb. : )
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czgibson
08-11-2005, 09:28 PM
Any Martial Artist will tell you that actual fighting is a very small part of martial arts. But if the instructor teaching whatever form of martial arts it was did not educate his students on self-control and the appropriate situations in which to use violence, then I would say that such training could be considered harmful as well if it was indeed inciting violence, contrary to the principles of Islam.
I fully understand the point about self-discipline in the martial arts. "We learn karate so that we may never use it" etc. It's easy to see how such training could be abused though, by those with malevolent impulses.

I understand your point about money, but I still believe that music is one of the biggest tools being used by the secularist to bring about their revolution in the west which consists of a rejection of traditional values and encouraging indulging one's desires.
A rejection of some traditional values, perhaps, but I believe the most important ones are still intact.

At many events which Islam would consider immoral, you will find that music is used to influence the environment heavily. I'm sure my fellow Muslims here know some other Muslims who listen to music, and they can easily be distinguished from the more pious Muslims who focus on reading the Qur'an and praying etc.
So is this the root of the Muslim attitude to music - it distracts people from the Qur'an?

Moreover, music can have a very large negative influence on people's behaviours, the one example that comes to mind is the murders.
Which murders are you thinking about?

I can understand your point here, but the kinds of music you speak of are outdated now. They have evolved into the forms of music we have today. So the emphasis on music in society has resulted in what we see today.
The two pieces I mentioned are a fundamental part of the classical repertoire and are performed in concert halls around the world many times a year. However, the fact that you consider them "outdated" appears to lessen your objection to them. Is it only new music that is haraam?

Of the kinds you mentioned before, I don't think classical is as bad as rock, but if you look at the history of music you will see that each form gradually evolved into a worse form (from an Islamic point of view). Some scholars wouldn't consider the forms of music you've mentioned in the above quote prohibited, and they certainly aren't as bad as the other forms, but I'm just pointing out that they have led to the other forms.
OK, so Western classical music has led to Western popular music forms (of which there are literally thousands), and they have got progressively worse from an Islamic point of view. To make a statement like this shows that you have no interest in Western music. Fair enough, that is your view. But you should bear in mind that as music has progressed, the number of different syles of music has increased exponentially. To say, therefore, that all the later forms are worse than the preceding forms is to make an enormous generalisation. Why is Classical music worse than Baroque music? Why is jazz-funk worse than Dixieland jazz? Why is avant-blues worse than New Orleans swing? Have the Islamic scholars made rulings on these different styles?

Secular music is not the only way to achieve such benefits, however.
Is religious music generally more effective?

Drugs have also brought pleasure to countless millions around the world.
They certainly have, but that is a topic for another debate.

To repeat, Islam does not say that all forms of music are prohibted, indeed there is a vast range of music that is considered permissable in Islam, so long as it does not lead people away from their religion.
So this is the crucial point then. You cannot be distracted from your religion. I am interested in religion of all kinds, but I am interested in many other things as well.

Peace
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Ansar Al-'Adl
08-12-2005, 01:45 AM
Originally Posted by czgibson
So is this the root of the Muslim attitude to music - it distracts people from the Qur'an?

So this is the crucial point then. You cannot be distracted from your religion. I am interested in religion of all kinds, but I am interested in many other things as well.
I used the phrase "lead away from religion" as in they deviate one from the path of God into sin, and lessen their faith, as well as opening gates to many other evils. If the types of music you listed do not leads people to sin and do not have immoral content in them, from an Islamic perspective, then they're are not considered the same as the other types of music. Some scholars would say they are permissable, others discouraged, yet still others would maintain that they are forbidden. But you see, its all dependent on the music, some forms are worse than others.

However, the fact that you consider them "outdated" appears to lessen your objection to them. Is it only new music that is haraam?
new music is more obviously haraam than older music. Older forms of music are certainly not as bad.

Why is Classical music worse than Baroque music? Why is jazz-funk worse than Dixieland jazz? Why is avant-blues worse than New Orleans swing?
I think from the above discussion it should be clear that many forms of music would not be considered worse. There are levels of music, some worse than others.
Have the Islamic scholars made rulings on these different styles?
I'm not aware of any specific fatawa (religious rulings) that deal with such specific forms of music.

Is religious music generally more effective?
Maybe, but not always. I was referring to any possible methods other than music actually.

Regards
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khalid zaheer
08-12-2005, 05:59 AM
assalaam o alaikum

These are the signs of the wise Book. For a guidance and a mercy to the good-doers. Those who establish the Prayer, pay the dueÿ__ÿalms, and who have sure faith in the Hereafter. Those are upon guidance from their Lord, and those are the ones who shall prosper. And among men is he who takes up a funny story to lead astray from God's way without any he knowledge, and takes it in mockery; for them there shall be a disgraceful punishment. And when Our signs are recited to him, he turns away in arrogance, as if he did not hear them, as if there was heaviness in his ears; so give him a good news of a painful punishment.
01 to 07/31
Is there any doudt in above ayaat that you are trying to attach one of them with music? very clear verses discussing over a single matter, where is music. leave the practice to pick a part of a verse and attach it to any matter, it is better for all of you.

The announcement of Halaal and Haraam is the right of Allah only. Did not you read in Quran at many places that who are you to announce something Halaal or Haraam while Allah did not announce it. you knows better or Allah that what is good for us or what is bad. This was the big reason to decline or turn down of "Yahood" that they themselve announced the things Halaal or Haraam.

As the matter music it is not announced Haraam by Allah, so any one has not right say it Haraam. There is a long discussion about poets and poetry, Allah said poet run after assumptions and dreams but did not announce it Haraam. Poetry the base of music, if it is not Haraam then why music?

Poetry and music are the way of amusement and enjoyment is not wrong if it is in boundries. As intercource with opposit sex is the way of amusement but it is wrong if out of laws and if it is under boundries (i.e. with your wife or husband) then it is right in any way. If you choose good music or poetry no matter but if lead you to wrong ways and should bring you to out of the boundries then it is wrong. Simple

Allah hafiz
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Uthman
08-12-2005, 07:28 AM
:sl: brother Khalid Zaheer,

وَمِنَ النَّاسِ مَن يَشْتَرِي لَهْوَ الْحَدِيثِ لِيُضِلَّ عَن سَبِيلِ اللَّهِ بِغَيْرِ عِلْمٍ وَيَتَّخِذَهَا هُزُوًا أُولَئِكَ لَهُمْ عَذَابٌ مُّهِينٌ

Surah Luqman verse 6 (031:006)
But there are, among men, those who purchase idle tales, without knowledge (or meaning), to mislead (men) from the Path of Allah and throw ridicule (on the Path): for such there will be a Humiliating Penalty.

The greater part of the mufassirīn (those who write tafsir) including the likes of Ibn Kathir and Sayyid Abul Ala Maududi have interpreted لَهْوَ الْحَدِيثِ (idle tales) to mean music and singing e.t.c.

We even have the confirmation of Abdullah Ibn Masood:

“I swear by Him besides whom there is no other God, that it refers to ghinaa (singing).”

Look at the Hadith of Bukhari:

The Prophet Muhammad (SAWS) said:

"There will be people of my Ummah who will seek to make lawful; fornication, wine-drinking and the use of ma'aazif (musical instruments)."


Need I remind you that the ahadith of Bukhari are considered the most authentic after the Qur'an?


وَاسْتَفْزِزْ مَنِ اسْتَطَعْتَ مِنْهُمْ بِصَوْتِكَ وَأَجْلِبْ عَلَيْهِم بِخَيْلِكَ وَرَجِلِكَ وَشَارِكْهُمْ فِي الأَمْوَالِ وَالأَوْلادِ وَعِدْهُمْ وَمَا يَعِدُهُمُ الشَّيْطَانُ إِلاَّ غُرُورًا

Surah Al-Isra verse 64 (017:064)
Lead to destruction those whom thou canst among them, with thy (seductive) voice; make assaults on them with thy cavalry and thy infantry; mutually share with them wealth and children; and make promises to them." But Satan promises them nothing but deceit.

In Tafsir Ibn Kathir:

وَاسْتَفْزِزْ مَنِ اسْتَطَعْتَ مِنْهُمْ بِصَوْتِك
(And fool them gradually those whom you can among them with your voice,) It was said that this refers to singing. Mujahid said, "With idle entertainment and singing,'' meaning, influence them with that.

Another Hadith:

‘Imraan narrated that the Messenger of Allah said, “In this nation there will be humiliation, corruption and slander. The companions asked, “When will that happen O Messenger of Allah?” He said, “When songstresses and stringed instruments appear and when alcohol is consumed.” (At-Tirmidhee).

Do you still hold to your view that music is not haraam? Take heed.

:w:

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Bittersteel
08-12-2005, 08:21 AM
can't I listen to music provided the fact that I don't do extreme things?

well okay I accept its haram but in my case will it be less haram?
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Uthman
08-12-2005, 08:28 AM
:sl:

Now brother, you know very well that Haraam is Haraam. There is no such thing as less Haraam.

Hasn't the time now come that the Prophet Muhammad (SAWS) was speaking of in this Hadith (which I am emphasizing for the third time)?

"There will be people of my Ummah who will seek to make lawful; fornication, wine-drinking and the use of ma'aazif (musical instruments)."


Don't we see people of the ummah trying to justify the use of musical instruments when it has been clearly been decreed as unlawful?

:w:

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Bittersteel
08-12-2005, 09:52 AM
oh sorry.But what are the reasons behind it?I am not saying that its wrong.
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czgibson
08-12-2005, 11:44 AM
Originally Posted by Ansar Al-'Adl
I used the phrase "lead away from religion" as in they deviate one from the path of God into sin, and lessen their faith, as well as opening gates to many other evils. If the types of music you listed do not leads people to sin and do not have immoral content in them, from an Islamic perspective, then they're are not considered the same as the other types of music. Some scholars would say they are permissable, others discouraged, yet still others would maintain that they are forbidden. But you see, its all dependent on the music, some forms are worse than others.
So it's not any quality in the music itself that causes it to be forbidden, it's just a question of how it can influence people?

new music is more obviously haraam than older music. Older forms of music are certainly not as bad.

I think from the above discussion it should be clear that many forms of music would not be considered worse. There are levels of music, some worse than others.
These statements seem to be contradictory. The first statement, again, is an enormous generalisation.

I'm not aware of any specific fatawa (religious rulings) that deal with such specific forms of music.
The point I was trying to get to is about why newer forms of music are seen as necessarily worse than older forms. (If that is indeed what you believe, it's not been perfectly clear). So I contrasted a newer form with an older form in each case, to show that there is no logic to this position. For instance, heavy metal (which I believe would be seen as contrary to Islam) came before ambient music (which I think would be seen as less bad by many Muslims). There is no reason to assume that the newness of a particular form will guarantee that it is worse (from a Muslim point of view) than whatever came before it.

Maybe, but not always. I was referring to any possible methods other than music actually.
OK, fair enough. There are certainly many ways of doing this sort of thing. However, the Live Aid and Live 8 projects are undeniably a great contribution in the attempt to relieve world poverty.

I'm having difficulty with these ideas, Ansar. It seems there are many views on the matter within Islam (e.g. some say "haraam is haraam", you say some forms are less bad than others.) To what extent to Muslims tend to agree on this matter?

What is it about a certain piece of music, in your view, that could potentially lead to the undesirable or sinful actions you refer to? The lyrics? The rhythm? Which instruments are used? If there are instruments at all? Is it the tempo that could lead people to lose control? Perhaps it is the emotional tone of the piece (e.g. it could be aggressive, peaceful, lively or sad)?

As you can see, I'm very unclear on what you're saying here. I'm trying to understand what it is, at the heart of all secular music (whether Islamically it's seen as being very bad, or not so bad), that you see as so dangerous to your traditional values.

The ideas you're presenting are obviously very alien to me, but I must admit I'm absolutely intrigued to find out the reasons for them. Thank you for giving me such a good insight into your world-view.

Peace
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TEH
08-12-2005, 11:52 AM
Music is haraam, and haraam is haraam, and ideally you should listen to the quraan, but people who are inclined towards music, like myself, we always have nasheeds to listen to, very good nasheeds at that. Heres is a very goo darticle for you lot to read:

http://www.sunnipath.com/resources/Q...a00002024.aspx

:)
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czgibson
08-12-2005, 12:31 PM
Thank you for the link TEH. I've already read the article you refer to, and in fact it inspired some of the questions I've asked above, but thanks anyway for your willingness to help. :)

I've also listened to several nasheeds, but this only multiplied my questions. For instance: one of the nasheeds I listened to had what I would describe as "Islamic rap" over the top of hip-hop beats created using using turntable mixing techniques. So, it seems it is not hip-hop beats that are forbidden, it must be the lyrics that determine what is forbidden or not. This contradicts the article you mention, which says that the rhythm of music correlates to certain bodily movements, which are somehow bad.

OK, so if it is the lyrics that are the main factor, how about this example: there's an American hip-hop group named A Tribe Called Quest. The members of the group are Muslims, and they rap over jazzy hip-hop beats similar to the kind I heard in the nasheed. Some of their lyrics are about Islam, encouraging people to read the Qur'an and so on. Other lyrics promote Afro-centric living, positivity, and living in an ethical way, but with no specific mention of Islam. Are the tunes which mention Islam halal and those which do not haraam?
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TEH
08-12-2005, 12:49 PM
hang on a sec, who said all nasheeds were halaal...

:D
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czgibson
08-12-2005, 12:52 PM
Originally Posted by TEH
hang on a sec, who said all nasheeds were halaal...

:D
Very good point, I wasn't sure about this. I just assumed since they were offered on the website here they would all be permitted.

Who decides anyway, and what determines their decision?
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TEH
08-12-2005, 01:00 PM
Well, like the people said, nothing wrong with singing, depending on what you are singing, what the heck, even I sing, but music is wrong. I believe that percusion instruments are ok, but others are not.

:)
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Bittersteel
08-12-2005, 01:11 PM
I meant the ruling of music in Islam isn't wrong.

thanks brother Hash.
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czgibson
08-12-2005, 01:39 PM
That's a very clear statement of your views, TEH, thank you. I still don't understand why music is wrong, though. I've been re-reading the Fatwa you referred me to in the hope of finding some answers to this.

Music is a direct ploy of the Non-Muslims.
Since music itself is much older than Islam, a statement such as this is nothing less than paranoid, utterly without foundation and extremely narrow-minded. It also shows great prejudice against non-Muslims.

It is a psychological proven fact that two things are instrumental in arousing the human sexual desire, one being the voice of a female (for males) and the other music.
All music promotes sexual desire? That is a huge generalisation, and is not even close to being a fact.

In a psychological experiment, it was found that listening to moderate type of music increased one’s normal heart beat, whilst listening to rock music the heart beat increased even further, yet people claim that music has no effect.
I don't think it would be necessary to conduct a psychological experiment to prove this, as the fact that people's heart rates increase when listening to faster music is self-evident. And nobody claims that music has no effect.

In conclusion, music and the instruments used for singing are a cause for arousing the sexual desire of an individual. It could lead a person to adultery and fornication. Therefore, Islam takes the preventive measure rather than suffer the consequences. This is also one of the principles of Islamic Jurisprudence, namely ‘blocking the means’ (sadd al-dhara'i). This is based on the idea of preventing an evil before it actually materializes, and is taken from the heart of the guidance of the Qur’an and Sunnah that, “Preventing harm is given precedence even to achieving possible benefits.”
It could lead to adultery and fornication, but so could lots of other things. To say that because some pieces of music could lead to those sins, we should therefore denounce all secular music as being wrong, seems to me to be highly unjust. There is a whole world of music that is not about sex, does not encourage any sin at all and does not encourage sexual motions, a world of music that brings joy and inspiration to millions every single day; and yet if you follow the advice of Mufti Muhammad ibn Adam al-Kawthari, that is a world that will be forever closed to you.

The idea of "blocking the means" is precisely the same argument used by G.W.Bush to justify his illegal invasion of Iraq. He calls it "pre-emptive strike" and personally I think it's one of the most dangerous political doctrines of all time. I believe that reasoning of this kind leads to much more serious trouble than music ever could.

I'm aware that I might sound quite outspoken about this, I do hope nobody is offended by this questioning I have undertaken. Having said that, the Islamic tradition of robust debate is surely able to accommodate such questioning. The reason I'm going on about this is because it's still very unclear to me why all secular music is considered ethically wrong. None of the explanations offered so far have been able to withstand the merest scrutiny.
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Uthman
08-12-2005, 01:41 PM
Peace,

Originally Posted by czgibson
Since music itself is much older than Islam, a statement such as this is nothing less than paranoid, utterly without foundation and extremely narrow-minded. It also shows great prejudice against non-Muslims.
According to your understanding, when did Islam begin?

:w:

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czgibson
08-12-2005, 01:51 PM
Greetings Osman,

Originally Posted by Osman

According to your understanding, when did Islam begin?
With the first ever recital of the shahada.

I know that Muslims believe Jesus, Moses and all the prophets back to Adam were also Muslims, but the fact is that Islam only became a known force on the world stage with the moment I've specified. That is the point when the first member of Islam consciously joined the movement.

Peace
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TEH
08-12-2005, 02:02 PM
ok now bro, what you need to understand is, theis 'blocking the means' policy, is not political, its religious. Now for the moment, lets just get rid of politics and everything, what is your purpose in life? To worship Allah, and to enter Jannah insha allah. If not, then I cant really answer your qs. If that is your purpose, then if something is wrong, as cited by someone much more knowledgable and many many others, then just leave it. True, some of the guys views seem kinda whacked, :p , but such is life, and well just think about your akhirah...

:)
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czgibson
08-12-2005, 02:28 PM
Originally Posted by TEH
ok now bro, what you need to understand is, theis 'blocking the means' policy, is not political, its religious. Now for the moment, lets just get rid of politics and everything,
OK, let's keep politics out of it. That was just the first example that came to mind. My point was that the reasoning is the same.


what is your purpose in life? To worship Allah, and to enter Jannah insha allah. If not, then I cant really answer your qs.
OK, fair enough. I am not a Muslim, but I would very much like to try and understand Islamic thinking.

If that is your purpose, then if something is wrong, as cited by someone much more knowledgable and many many others, then just leave it. True, some of the guys views seem kinda whacked, :p , but such is life, and well just think about your akhirah...
This is the argument from authority, which is a logical fallacy. I believe using our own reason is the best way to examine issues that arise (an attitude encouraged in Islam), and if someone's views appear to be "kinda whacked", I tend not to believe them, no matter whose support they have.

Peace be with you
:)
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Bittersteel
08-12-2005, 02:29 PM
has it got anything to do with attraction?
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TEH
08-12-2005, 02:31 PM
ahh well, perhaps then, I am not the best person to answer your question. And I didnt mean whacked literally, I meant some of the things he says are a bit over the top.

:D
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czgibson
08-12-2005, 02:36 PM
Thanks for your views, TEH. It seems everyone has a view, so the more I can hear about the more I will understand the issue. :)

Greetings Abdul Aziz,
Do you mean that the reason music is haraam might be because it could lead to physical attraction? That is one of the arguments given by Mufti Muhammad ibn Adam al-Kawthari, in the Fatwa linked above.

Peace :)
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TEH
08-12-2005, 02:38 PM
Well the easiest way to make a girl fall in love with you is by using your voice...

:D
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czgibson
08-12-2005, 03:13 PM
Thank you Hashim, that's a very clear statement of views. I'm interested in the reasons for these views.

Are instruments only haraam because using them is an imitation of non-Muslims, or are there any other reasons?

(Have I understood you correctly on this point about why instruments are considered bad?)

Would Elgar's Cello concerto (which has no words) be haraam?
Reply

Saladin
08-12-2005, 03:29 PM
Salamalaikoum,

Brothers and sisters please be cautious about labeling things haram and halal. Somethings in Islam aren't in just black and white. You must take into consideration many things. The Quran says:

{O ye who believe! make not unlawful the good things which Allah hath made lawful for you, but commit no excess: for Allah loveth not those given to excess.} (5:87)

I strongly encourage all to read this article: http://www.islamonline.net/askabouti...uestionID=2712

Wasalam.
Reply

Uthman
08-12-2005, 05:07 PM
:sl:

Please see here for a detailed fatwa on imitating the kuffaar. Callum, I advise you to read it for a better understanding. :)

I think the criteria should be:

1) It should not contain musical instruments

2) It should not promote or be about anything Haraam or unlawful.

Do my brothers agree with me here?

Originally Posted by Saladin
I strongly encourage all to read this article: http://www.islamonline.net/askabout...questionID=2712
Acknowledged. Thank you for the article.

Originally Posted by Hashim
Allaah azzawajjaal and his messenger (sallallhualayi'wa'salaam) have prohibited music and that is the only reason i need.
Beautifully said. :)

:w:

Reply

Ansar Al-'Adl
08-12-2005, 05:27 PM
Greetings Callum,
Okay, to clarify it is not neccessarily a form of music's chronological position which makes it better or worse. I just pointed out a trend that modern music is getting worse from an Islamic perspective, although this is not true in every case as you pointed out. So many forms of music today are more obviously haraam, but again it still depends on the content.

And yes, this is a very controversial subject within Islam, so some of the nasheeds we have on the site may be considered haraam by some and halal by others. We tend to view them as permissable especially if they inspire Muslims. I personally detest any form of rap, however I would say that these "Muslims raps" may help in brining youth back to focusing on Islam gradually. However, I can understand and appreciate the various views within Islam on the issue of music.

Where is the agreement? The vast majority of muslims would agree that content which is profane and encourages sinful behaviour makes the music haraam. The majority also agree that the singing of a female singer would make the music haraam as well since it would naturally arouse desires in men.

Many Muslims also suggest that music with an agressive tone or beat can alse be considered haraam because it reduce's one's reason and control over themselves (arguably).

Other Muslims suggest that any form of musical instruments used is not permissable unless it is percussion instruments. Some say that the only percussion instrument allowed is the duff (simple one hand drum). Then there are those who say that it is all forbidden.

Since declaring something to be haraam (prohibted) is very strong in Islam, most people would agree that it is discouraged. I would agree that many forms of music are discouraged, but with regards to being prohibited, I might incline towards the first view if there is any benefit in other forms of music, such as leading people towards God, or inspiring good deeds. But I would still discourage any form of music since I can't fathom any Muslim who is a devout worshipper of God, yet listening to music. Music just seems to me to be leading away from God, some forms more rapidly than others, some forms more clearly than others.

You might find it interesting to read the opinion of Yusuf Islam, (former Cat Stevens) who is one of the most popular Muslim singers:
http://www.mountainoflight.co.uk/PDF...tion_faith.pdf

If you read the whole book of Shaykh Abu Bilal Mustafa Al-Kanadi you'll probably get a very good understanding of the reasoning behind the stricter approach:
http://members.tripod.com/oum_abdulaziz/music.html

I hope this helps.
Reply

Lateralus63
08-12-2005, 05:38 PM
:sl:

Music is a very powerful tool,

Know that in this world, somethings can either save you or harm you, it depends where you place music in that category, do you let music save you (nasheeds) or do you let it harm you (aggressive music) its all a question of the intention....the true intention of what your listening to it for.
Reply

*!~Faith~!*
08-12-2005, 09:32 PM
:sl:
I need rulings/hadiths/ayah's..anything about women singing..can someone hook me up with some??
Reply

czgibson
08-12-2005, 10:14 PM
Thank you to Osman, Ansar Al-'Adl and Saladin for the links. I found the link Saladin gave to be a particularly helpful guide to understanding the Islamic position regarding music. (Although I'm now convinced there is not one Islamic position, but many variations on a theme.)

Originally Posted by Ansar Al-'Adl
Greetings Callum,
Okay, to clarify it is not neccessarily a form of music's chronological position which makes it better or worse. I just pointed out a trend that modern music is getting worse from an Islamic perspective, although this is not true in every case as you pointed out. So many forms of music today are more obviously haraam, but again it still depends on the content.
I now see what you're saying here. The first presentation of this idea that you gave made it seem like a definitive ruling: "Music gets progressively worse, always." I now see that this is really more of a general view, with perhaps a few particular exceptions.

Where is the agreement? The vast majority of muslims would agree that content which is profane and encourages sinful behaviour makes the music haraam. The majority also agree that the singing of a female singer would make the music haraam as well since it would naturally arouse desires in men.
On the first point, it depends what you mean by profane, but I think for the most part we would agree. Most of the noise residing in the pop charts has more to do with commerce than music, which explains its need to rely on base instincts. Although there are some (few) extraordinary works of music being made at present, in my view the most interesting music is usually to be found in the past.

(On the point about female singers, it's interesting that any potential erogenous effect on women by male singers is overlooked...)

But seriously, there are many different types of female vocal music, from the commercial Britney Spears type, to the deep soul of Aretha Franklin or the operatic virtuosity of Maria Callas. While the first may be justifiably accused of arousing (actually exploiting) male desire, with the other two, any man in the audience with ears would be too bowled over by the sound to even think about sex.

Many Muslims also suggest that music with an agressive tone or beat can alse be considered haraam because it reduce's one's reason and control over themselves (arguably).
Well, rock or dance music might be said to reduce a person's self-control very slightly, but not usually to the point where it becomes dangerous.

Other Muslims suggest that any form of musical instruments used is not permissable unless it is percussion instruments. Some say that the only percussion instrument allowed is the duff (simple one hand drum). Then there are those who say that it is all forbidden.
There's clearly a variety of opinion here, which I suppose is good to see. As a (non-professional) musician, though, it upsets me to think that any appreciation of instruments could be discouraged in this way. Musicians are able to transmit tremendous ideas without any words at all. It's something remarkable to hear, and it's hard to believe there could something essentially morally wrong with it.

But I would still discourage any form of music since I can't fathom any Muslim who is a devout worshipper of God, yet listening to music.
Let me tell you a story about the most intelligent person I have ever met. He was a close friend of mine at university named Mohammed Mohammed, a Muslim from Sudan, whose family lived in Saudi Arabia. He had an excellent view on life, he had very few possessions, and most importantly was never short of friends. He introduced me to the ideas of Islam, and he and I would have religious debates until the early hours, when we should perhaps have been studying. We discovered we both had a liking for blues music, and particularly the guitarist B B King. In his room, Mo (as we called him) had, as well as his clothes, one book, and one CD. The CD was B B King, and the book, I need hardly tell you, was the Qur'an. He used to get pure joy from listening to the CD, but his main passion was the Qur'an. He used to organise groups of us to sit and listen as he explained the arguments about scientific miracles in the text and so on. Although some of us openly disagreed with much of his thinking, this did not matter to him. He was respected and loved by everyone who met him. He is now a successful doctor in the north of England.

Thanks for the links, Ansar, I'll check them out. I'm familiar with Cat Stevens, pre-reversion, but I'll be interested to hear what he's had to say since then.

I'm much closer to reaching an understanding on Islamic attitudes regarding music, but it's clear there's a huge cultural difference here.

Peace
Reply

Muhammad
08-16-2005, 01:38 PM
:sl:

Threads merged.

czgibson, it appeared that you had made a double post with slight changes, so I deleted the one I thought was the unmodified version. If I was wrong then please tell me,

Peace.
Reply

Takumi
08-16-2005, 03:49 PM
:sl:

Look what music has done to us. :p

The issue of music has already been made fatawa on. Everybody knows that there are two major opinions about it. Both opinions agree on one thing, the qawaaid al fiqhiyya said "whatever leads to haram is haram" That includes this forum, if it leads to unnecessary interaction between the sexes, than getting involved in it is HARAAM.

Such qaedah comes from the verse, "wa la taqrabuz zeena" which basically, means, don't even come close to committing zeena, let alone doing it.

We cannot impose a ruling that is not agreed upon ALL SCHOLARS, unless you don't deem Qardawi as a scholar of our time and the others who have made a ruling that music is not HARAAM.

If that is the case, then, it's not really an issue of music, it's an issue of our not subscribing to these scholars' ruling.

The next issue is, are we, on ourselves, capable in refuting the other scholars' views and opinions? If we are, then we should come up with our own proof, not quoting other people because other people's opinions have been noted.

Should we decide to follow that opinion (like some of us who eat non zabiha) then it's OUR CHOICE. We may not impose this choice on other people. Because if we do, we fall into extremism in our judgement and opinion and we all know that Allah Knows Best.

I'm not a music listener myself and not even a nasheed listener. I used to listen and you're right, nasheed and songs MAY NOT replace the ultimate soother, the Book of Allah, but that does not give me the right to judge other people who chose to do it, because every actions fall into the ahkaamut takleef:

(1) HARAAM
(2) HALAAL
(3) SUNNAH
(4) MAKROOH
(5) MUBAAH

If a brother listens to songs that are good and still function as a responsible muslim, keep away from sins, does not neglect his prayers; what's the reason to prohibit him from doing the mubaah?
Reply

khalid zaheer
08-17-2005, 06:51 AM
Originally Posted by Osman
Haraam is Haraam.

There will be people of my Ummah who will seek to make lawful; fornication, wine-drinking and the use of ma'aazif (musical instruments).

Don't we see people of the ummah trying to justify the use of musical instruments when it has been clearly been decreed as unlawful?
Assalaam o alaikum brother

what do you mean by Haraam is Haraam? I have told you that its Only and Only Allah that have authority to announce something Haraam then why are you insisting to call it Haraam when Allah did not make it Haraam. Brother its like "shirk" to announce something Haraam when Allah did not Called it Haraam so brother plz avoid it .

if every musical instrument (according to you) is Haraam then what you say about "Duff"? is this not a musical instrument?

How Muhammad (saw) announce something Haraam when He (saw) has not any right to do it? (according to most of the persons) Hadith is the explanation of Quran and when Quran is silent over a matter then explanation? what for?

Or in your openion islam has two "Sharia" one by Allah and one by Muhammad (saw)


Allah hafiz
Reply

Far7an
08-17-2005, 08:45 AM
Assalamu alaikum

Your comments are obviously made without knowledge of the Quran.

In the hadith provided it is clear that use of musical instruments is not lawful, our prophet made it unlawful for us.

Let us look to the Quran InshaAllah..

"Obey Allah, and obey the Messenger, and beware (of evil): if ye do turn back, know ye that it is Our Messenger's duty to proclaim (the message) in the clearest manner." Surah Al maidah Ayah 92

All who obey Allah and the messenger are in the company of those on whom is the Grace of Allah,- of the prophets (who teach), the sincere (lovers of Truth), the witnesses (who testify), and the Righteous (who do good): Ah! what a beautiful fellowship! Surah An Nisa ayah 69
Reply

Ra`eesah
08-17-2005, 08:55 AM
Assalamu'Alaykum



Originally Posted by khalid zaheer
How Muhammad (saw) announce something Haraam when He (saw) has not any right to do it? (according to most of the persons) Hadith is the explanation of Quran and when Quran is silent over a matter then explanation? what for?
Qur'an 24:63, {. . . So let those who go against his (the Prophet) command beware, lest a trial befall them, or there befall them a painful chastisement.}


Qur'an 4:115, {And whoever opposes the Messenger after the guidance has been manifested unto him, and follows other than the believers' way, We appoint for him that unto which he has turned, and expose him him unto hell--a hapless journey's end!}


Qur'an 72:23, {. . . And whoever disobeys Allah and His Messenger,surely his is hell-fire, wherin such dwell forever.}


Qur'an 53:1-4, {By the star when it goes down, your companion is neither
astray nor being misled, nor does he speak of desire, it is naught except an inspiration (wahy) that is inspired.}



Allah says: "What the Messenger teaches you, take it; and what he forbids you, avoid doing it." Qur'ân (59:7)






{Whoever obeys the Messenger, he thereby surely has obeyed Allah. . .}

Qur'an 4:80





So now looking at all this let us Humble ourselves correct our intentions and refelct on these ayahs with true sincerity
Reply

Takumi
08-17-2005, 12:17 PM
:sl:

I suggest that we write to Qardawi and all the other scholars who say musical instruments are halaal that if they don't recant their fatwa they'll be condemned to the hell fire because they're the scholars and people around the world are following their fatawa. :-[

Shouldn't we attack the source? :p

By the way, with all these so called clear proof, I was wondering whether the proponents of the impermissibility of music have actually done what I suggested? If you have, what were their replies? I'd like to know.

Because obviously their opinions have divided the ummah ESPECIALLY in this forum. ;)
Reply

Zuko
09-02-2005, 03:06 PM
:sl:

I know this is going to sound cheesy but is there anyway you guys could help me convince the dudes on this site:

http://hadeer.com/asp/projects/forum...113&PN=1&TPN=2

that music is haraam? Listen to some of their remarks:

sweet surrow um ya i think its haram but its onli cuz of its wrds u noe the stupidity and etc

but if ur listening to an sialmic song it makes u feel coser to allah and gives a nice effect towards islam and makes u closer to allah

so in this case how can something that makes u closer to allah b haram?
what i listen to,they talk about whats going on in the world...about life ! sometimes the only way to really know whats goin on in this world is by listening to music.. music that means something.

Salamo Alykom.
If music is haram then why are there Islamic songs nowadays ?? There are many people who listen to islamic music,read the Quran,listen to the Quran and pray but at the same enjoy themselves and listen to music ! whats the big deal about that... Ok if the music u were listening to has some bad words and is a bad influence then its haram..but if its just normal music talking about everyday life then i think thats ok.
ok wats rong with the instruments they add a nice beet and mood to the song and makes u feel it wen the music hits looool
Guysss I think that listening to islamic (songs) is not described as haram i think... People nowadays can't live without songs so that was the only way...is to make islamic songs....I personally don't find anything wrong in that...besides i know a lot of my friends who listen new fashioned songs are being attracted to such....this is a significant mark.....allau2a3lam
Ok so I posted this hadith:

"The Prophet said (which means), "From among my followers there will be some people who will consider illegal sexual intercourse, the wearing of silk, the drinking of alcoholic drinks and the use of musical instruments, as lawful. And there will be some people who will stay near the side of a mountain and in the evening their shepherd will come to them with their sheep and ask them for something, but they will say to him, 'Return to us tomorrow.' Allaah will destroy them during the night and will let the mountain fall on them, and He will transform the rest of them into monkeys and pigs and they will remain so till the Day of Resurrection." [Al-Bukhari Volume 7, Book 69, Number 494v].


and this was the reply I got:

WELL HOW DO WE NOE THAT THIS HADITH IS TRU BSIDES
NOWADAYS EVERY1S LIFE INCLUDES MUSIC MUSIC AND MORE MUISC SO PPL CAME UP, LIKE AYMAN SAID WITH ISLAMIC MUSIC TO MAKE UP FOR THOSE SONGS THAT DONT MAKES SENSE

AND LIEK I S AID IT HELPS U GET CLOSER TO ALLAH AND FEEL ISLAM HOW COULD THAT POSSIBLY B HARAM (STH THAT MAKES U CLOSER TO ALLAH AND FEEL ISLAM MORE???)

You don't have to sign up if you don't want, but I think they're so lost... I mean, not sure if sahih bukhari is true?:confused: :confused:

:w:
Reply

TEH
09-02-2005, 04:15 PM
Ignorance is so sad...

Sigh...

May Allah change them Insha Allah...

Edit: awww, Osman, you legened man...

:)
Reply

czgibson
09-02-2005, 04:19 PM
Greetings everyone,
Originally Posted by Far7an
Your comments are obviously made without knowledge of the Quran.

In the hadith provided it is clear that use of musical instruments is not lawful, our prophet made it unlawful for us.
The hadiths are not actually part of the Qur'an, though, are they?

Is there any verse in the Qur'an that forbids musical instruments?

From among my followers there will be some people who will consider illegal sexual intercourse, the wearing of silk, the drinking of alcoholic drinks and the use of musical instruments, as lawful. And there will be some people who will stay near the side of a mountain and in the evening their shepherd will come to them with their sheep and ask them for something, but they will say to him, 'Return to us tomorrow.' Allaah will destroy them during the night and will let the mountain fall on them, and He will transform the rest of them into monkeys and pigs and they will remain so till the Day of Resurrection." [Al-Bukhari
Does this mean people who commit illegal sexual acts, wear silk, drink alcohol or use musical instruments will be transformed into monkeys and pigs?

(I didn't realise wearing silk was haraam too - that's a new one for me...)

Peace
Reply

TEH
09-02-2005, 04:22 PM
are you telling me in the 7 pages no one has explained that to you??

:)
Reply

czgibson
09-02-2005, 04:29 PM
Originally Posted by TEH
are you telling me in the 7 pages no one has explained that to you??

:)
Hello TEH,

I assume you're talking to me (correct me if I'm wrong).

The simple answer is yes, that is exactly what I'm saying. So far, no-one has quoted me a verse from the Qur'an that forbids musical instruments. Is there one?

Peace
Reply

Uthman
09-02-2005, 04:39 PM
Greetings Callum! :)

I hope both you and your family are well.

Originally Posted by czgibson
So far, no-one has quoted me a verse from the Qur'an that forbids musical instruments. Is there one?
Not that I know of, no. Is there a point you are trying to make? :)

:w:

Reply

czgibson
09-02-2005, 04:53 PM
Hello Osman,

No real point to make, I just wanted to check that this ruling is based on the hadiths, not the Qur'an. I do have a question, though (as ever!)

I don't know what the system is for determining which hadiths are authentic and which are spurious, so I'll leave that to those who know more than me, but I'm wondering: could this account for the fact that there is some debate on this issue? After all, if something is in the Qur'an, then it is clear and final. If a ruling is mentioned in a hadith, then there is the question of whether a particular Muslim accepts this hadith as authentic or not. Have I understood this correctly, or am I on the wrong track?

Peace
Reply

Uthman
09-02-2005, 06:13 PM
Hello Callum :)

Originally Posted by czgibson
I do have a question, though (as ever!)
That doesn't make it any less a joy and a pleasure to dialogue with you. :)

Originally Posted by Callum
I don't know what the system is for determining which hadiths are authentic and which are spurious, so I'll leave that to those who know more than me
It's actually quite simple (for some).

There are 3 steps to ahadith authenticiation, from which even one being flawed fabricates the hadith.



  1. Sanad: Channel (chain) of narration; through whom is the narration narrated, and can they be trusted.
  2. Luqa: Quranic compatibility with the hadith; the Prophet (saw) NEVER spoke against the Quran.
  3. Ta`weel ul-Athr / Ta`weel fil-Iman: meaning of the transmitted statement, and its effects on Iman.

Originally Posted by Callum
Could this account for the fact that there is some debate on this issue?
Indeed, it could. As you may have seen, the member Khalid Zaheer has somehow concluded that we should heed only the Qur'an and not ahadith. There are a few posts of his in this thread and he has also made an interesting thread here.

Originally Posted by Callum
After all, if something is in the Qur'an, then it is clear and final. If a ruling is mentioned in a hadith, then there is the question of whether a particular Muslim accepts this hadith as authentic or not. Have I understood this correctly, or am I on the wrong track?
Yes, obviously what the Qur'an says should be accepted without question seeing as it has been preserved and there is no doubt as to it's authenticity. It is natural, however for someone to be in some doubt upon hearing a hadith but when it is proven authentic it should be accepted without doubt.

The Sunnah are the recorded actions and words of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh). As I understand it, they are recorded in ahadith. I am not sure if they are recorded solely in ahadith, I could be wrong. As Ansar once theorised, we would have a difficult time interpreting verses and we would have very limited understanding of the religious practices if Islam were to be without the Sunnah.

Regards. And I hope a more knowledgeable person can clarify if the whole nine yards of what I just wrote is a ton of . . . . yeah.

Reply

- Qatada -
09-02-2005, 07:22 PM
all praise is due to Allah (swt) and his beloved prophet (salallahu alahi hi wasalam) and the prophet (salallahu alai hi wasalam)'s family and all who follow them.


Hadith - Bukhari 7:494
Narrated Abu 'Amir or Abu Malik Al-Ash'ari that he heard the Prophet saying, "From among my followers there will be some people who will consider illegal sexual intercourse, the wearing of silk, the drinking of alcoholic drinks, and the use of musical instruments as lawful. And (from them), there will be some who will stay near the side of a mountain, and in the evening their shepherd will come to them with their sheep and ask them for something, but they will say to him, 'Return to us tomorrow.' Allah will destroy them during the night and will let the mountain fall on them, and Allah will transform the rest of them into monkeys and pigs and they will remain so till the Day of Resurrection."


now keep in mind that there are alot of books regarding the hadith of our beloved Prophet (salallahu alai hi wasalam.) but the most authentic out of all of them is the sahih bukhari. some people say this is the most truthful book after the Qur'an. and the hadith above is in this book hence it is authentic.


Sahih Al-Bukhari

The most truthful book, after Al-Qur'an. Compiled by Imam (leader) of Hadith, Mohammad ibn Ismail Al-Bukhari, born 194H in Bukhara, central Asia. He travelled at an early age seeking knowledge to Syria, Egypt, Iraq and Hijaz (Makka/Madina). He learnt from more than 1000 Scholars and collected nearly 600,000 Hadiths. He wrote many books especially on the bibliography of Hadith narrators and other books on various issues of Fiqh. However, his book Al-Jame' Al-Sahih which became known as Sahih Al-Bukhari, stands out for being the most authentic book of Hadith. It was also the first book to contain only authentic Hadiths, while previous books contained authentic and non-authentic Hadith, as well as sayings of Sahabah and others.
Imam Bukhari died in his hometown, Bukhara in the year 256H

Some facts about Sahih Al-Bukhari:

1. Contains 6,000 Hadith, many of which are repeated under different headings and in different forms.

2. The number of complete unrepeated Hadith is 2513.

3. All the Hadith mentioned are authentic

4. The conditions for accepting a Hadith were very stringent. Such as:
a. The chain of narrators must be linked, i.e. every narrator must have met his predecessor, (the man of whom he heard the Hadith from, up to the Prophet)

b. For to be enclosed in the Sahih, the narrators must be of the highest calibre regarding their piety, manners, memory, integrity, etc.

5. The book is not a mere book of narrations; it is essentially a course of study on Hadith, its derivatives, inductions and research.

6. Each one of its 97 chapters is headed by a relevant verse from the Qur'an that complements the meaning of the Hadiths quoted.

7. Finally, much more could be said about this monumental work, however, it is enough to say that many people have reached fame and achieved the highest qualifications by studying the book, researching it and commenting on it.


if you need more info. regarding the books of hadith; visit the following site:

http://www.islamworlduk.com/hadith.htm


peace!
Reply

czgibson
09-02-2005, 08:10 PM
Greetings everyone,

Many, many thanks to Osman and Aqib for their extremely helpful posts.

The book is not a mere book of narrations; it is essentially a course of study on Hadith, its derivatives, inductions and research.
This looks like an important book for me to read - be careful of using "inductions" though! See here:

The Problem of Induction

Peace
Reply

Ansar Al-'Adl
09-02-2005, 08:54 PM
Originally Posted by czgibson
I don't know what the system is for determining which hadiths are authentic and which are spurious, so I'll leave that to those who know more than me, but I'm wondering: could this account for the fact that there is some debate on this issue? After all, if something is in the Qur'an, then it is clear and final. If a ruling is mentioned in a hadith, then there is the question of whether a particular Muslim accepts this hadith as authentic or not. Have I understood this correctly, or am I on the wrong track?
Most Muslims do not reject the ahadith, and in this scenario the hadith cited is recognized as authentic by the scholars. The ones who do not accept rulings from hadith are normally ignorant of the sciences of Ahadith and Usool Al-Fiqh (principles of Islamic jurisprudence) in Islam. The difference of opinion comes mostly in interpreting the ahadith and putting all the different narrations together to get an overall understanding of the issue. In Islam, rulings are very seldom based on a single hadith.

Peace.
Reply

Zuko
09-02-2005, 11:41 PM
salaam,

just wanted to thank bro osman for all of his help on hadeer... i really appreciated it, but those people donn seem like they want to stop music... *sigh* how can people be so blind? anyways thanks again bro...

salaam
Reply

Uthman
09-03-2005, 01:22 PM
:sl:

Originally Posted by Queenoftheworld
just wanted to thank bro osman for all of his help on hadeer... i really appreciated it, but those people donn seem like they want to stop music... *sigh* how can people be so blind? anyways thanks again bro...
That's no problem sister. :) But are you sure we want to be hanging around with these types of people?

:w:

Reply

Zuko
09-03-2005, 01:35 PM
Salaam,

I was thinking I should leave anyways... You see I know the girl 'shorouk' and she's been begging me to sign up for months now... She told me it was a strict islamic site... and I don't see how she thinks music is okay... anyways, i guess i should leave... thanks again for ur help...

salaam
Reply

Uthman
09-03-2005, 01:39 PM
:sl:

Hey! Don't you leave on me yet! The debate isn't over!

:w:

Reply

Zuko
09-03-2005, 01:56 PM
LOL, dont worry, I won't... come to think of it, I should head back there now...
Reply

imran_c
09-03-2005, 02:48 PM
“I swear by Him besides whom there is no other God, that it refers to ghinaa (singing).”

so does that mean nasheeds arent allowed?
Reply

Uthman
09-03-2005, 02:50 PM
:sl:

Imran, upon closer inspection you find the verse that the said quote refers to speaks of idle tales. Nasheeds are not idle tales. :)

:w:

Reply

Uthman
09-05-2005, 09:21 AM
:sl:

Queenoftheworld, it seems that they haven't responded to my last post. Perhaps it's my age that makes me unworthy to debate with. :( Maybe I shouldn't have mentioned that. I was just trying to say that if someone like me can give up music, then surely they can do it too, know what I mean? Well, I'm not complaining. I doubt they'll listen even after clear proofs.

:w:

Reply

Zuko
09-05-2005, 01:57 PM
Originally Posted by Osman
:sl:

Queenoftheworld, it seems that they haven't responded to my last post. Perhaps it's my age that makes me unworthy to debate with. :( Maybe I shouldn't have mentioned that. I was just trying to say that if someone like me can give up music, then surely they can do it too, know what I mean? Well, I'm not complaining. I doubt they'll listen even after clear proofs.

:w:
You put up a good fight, masha'allah... LOL, you got a whole lot across faster and more islamically than I did... But apparently, the people on that forum are exactly like my friend... They're stubborn...

But do you still wanna continue the debate? I think they know its haraam, but are too scared to say anything...
Reply

SolaceinIslam
09-05-2005, 02:05 PM
:sl:

My husband is an Alim and although he believes music to be haraam, when it comes to Nasheeds he always says one should look at the intention behind them. Whether you are singing them or listening to them, if it is with good intentions, then it is ok to listen to them as long as there is no music involved.

:w:
Reply

Zuko
09-05-2005, 02:56 PM
Originally Posted by Osman
:sl:

Queenoftheworld, it seems that they haven't responded to my last post. Perhaps it's my age that makes me unworthy to debate with. :( Maybe I shouldn't have mentioned that. :w:
:sl:

Your age doesn't make you unworthy of debate... To be quite honest, they should ge ashamed that you were able to control yourself before they did and at your age:shade: ... well I know I was a bit embarrassed, because I still haven't fully stopped ... But I'm gettin there! May Allaah show them the right path.......
:w:
Reply

Uthman
09-05-2005, 03:59 PM
:sl:

Originally Posted by Queenoftheworld
But do you still wanna continue the debate? I think they know its haraam, but are too scared to say anything...
If they do respond to my post, then let me know, will ya? :) InshaAllah, don't be so hard on yourself. We both tried our best. :)

My husband is an Alim and although he believes music to be haraam, when it comes to Nasheeds he always says one should look at the intention behind them. Whether you are singing them or listening to them, if it is with good intentions, then it is ok to listen to them as long as there is no music involved.
I don't mean any disrespect to your husband but to me a nasheed that has instruments is disobeying Prophet Muhammad (SAWS) regardless of whether the lyrics are halaal . He made clear that ma'aazif (musical instruments) are unlawful and there are no exceptions unless he says so.

:w:


Reply

Uthman
09-05-2005, 04:01 PM
:sl:

Originally Posted by Queenoftheworld
May Allaah show them the right path.......
Ameen sister. :)

:w:

Reply

Zuko
09-05-2005, 04:01 PM
Originally Posted by Osman
:sl:


If they do respond to my post, then let me know, will ya? :)
Sure thing...:thumbs_up
Reply

*!~Faith~!*
09-05-2005, 04:15 PM
Originally Posted by Osman
:sl:
Perhaps it's my age that makes me unworthy to debate with.
Age ain't nothing but a number :) Keep it up :thumbs_up
Reply

Uthman
09-08-2005, 03:04 PM
:sl:

JazakAllahu Khayran for your comments. :) Queenoftheworld, it looks like we're getting some support over there. Check it out!

:w:

Reply

Zuko
09-08-2005, 09:10 PM
Osman, you're a lifesaver.... Masha'allah and jazakallah khair for your help......
Reply

Uthman
09-12-2005, 09:14 PM
:sl:

Until now I've maintained that all music, good or bad, if accompanied by instruments is haraam. I've recently been referred to this article:

http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/S...=1119503544202

This has confused me a lot. It says:

In the subject of musical instruments, scholars disagree on the matter. Some of them permit all sorts of singing, be it accompanied with musical instruments or not, and even consider it recommended. A second group of scholars permit singing only when is not accompanied with a musical instrument. A third group declare it to be prohibited whether it be accompanied with a musical instrument or not; they even consider it as a major sin. In supporting their view, they cite the hadith narrated by Imam Al-Bukhari on the authority of Abu Malik or Abu `Amir Al-Ash`ari (doubt from the sub-narrator) that the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) said, 'From among my followers there will be some people who will consider illegal sexual intercourse, the wearing of silk (clothes), the drinking of alcoholic drinks and the use of musical instruments, as lawful.' Although this hadith is in Sahih Al-Bukhari, its chain of transmission is not connected to Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) and this invalidates its authenticity. Ibn Hazm rejects it for that very reason. Moreover, the sub-narrator, Hisham Ibn `Ammar is declared ‘weak’ by many scholars of the Science of Hadith Methodology.

Besides, this hadith does not clearly prohibit the use of musical instruments, for the phrase 'consider as lawful,' according to Ibn Al-`Arabi, has two distinct meanings:

First: Such people think all these (the things mentioned) are lawful.

Second: They exceed the proper limits that should be observed in using these instruments. If the first meaning is intended, such people would be thus disbelievers.

In fact, the hadith in hand dispraises the manners of a group of people who indulge themselves in luxuries, drinking alcohol and listening to music. Therefore, Ibn Majah narrates this hadith from Abu Malik Al-Ash`ari in the following wording: "From among my followers there will be some people who will drink wine, giving it other names while they listen to musical instruments and the singing of female singers; Allah the Almighty will make the earth swallow them and will turn them into monkeys and pigs.” (Reported by Ibn Hibban in his Sahih)

Don't get it.

:w:

Reply

Muezzin
09-12-2005, 09:20 PM
Salaam

I don't fully understand it either, Osman, but if you think listening to music is wrong, just don't do it. ;) :brother:
Reply

Far7an
09-16-2005, 05:26 PM
Assalamu alaikum

The link at the bottom of this post refutes them :)
Reply

Uthman
09-16-2005, 05:54 PM
:sl:

JazakAllah Khayr Far7an/Farhan. :)

:w:

Reply

Protected_Diamond
09-20-2005, 03:59 PM
Its a common misconception to the muslims of today, but all forms of music are forbidden in islam. It seems hard to believe, because no one really preaches about it being forbidden that often, but there are many hadiths of the prophet (p.b.u.h) regarding to music and why it is forbidden.

* Almighty Allah Taãla says in the Noble Qurãn: ‘And there are some people who purchase idle talk… for them is a severe punishment’. Ibn Masóod (Radhiyallaahu Ánhu) says that this verse was revealed regarding singing.

* Rasulullah (Sallallaahu Álayhi Wasallam) said, ‘Allah ordered me to destroy musical instruments.’

* Rasulullah (Sallallaahu Álayhi Wasallam) said, ‘People from my Ummat will drink wine and give it other names and singing girls and musical instruments will be played before them. Allah will cause the earth to swallow them, and disfigure their faces into apes and pigs.’

* Rasulullah (Sallallaahu Álayhi Wasallam) mentioned, ‘When singing girls and musical instruments becomes common, wait for red winds, earthquakes, the earth swallowing people, disfiguring and many more punishments.’ (Mishkãt 470)

* Hadhrat Ibn Mas’ood (Radhiallaahu Ánhu) reports that Rasulullah (Sallallaahu Alayhi Wasallam) declared every wine, gambling, beating of drums and every intoxicant as Haraam. (Abu Dawud)

* Hadhrat Ali (Radhiallaahu Ánhu) narrates that Rasulullah (Sallallaahu Alayhi Wasallam) prohibited the beating of drums. (Kanzul Ummaal)

* The Kubah (drum) is Haraam. (Bayhaqi; Musnad Bazzar)
Reply

Muezzin
09-20-2005, 05:29 PM
:sl:

This is already being discussed

Can I hear a 'Thread Merged'? :p :)
Reply

Vedad
10-13-2005, 06:21 PM
Bismillah

Assalamu Aleykum wa rahmatullah wa barakatuhu

in the majority of the nasheeds you have music, i saw that a staff member posted that its haraam to listen to musicc, so why do you still have them?
Reply

Ameeratul Layl
10-13-2005, 06:24 PM
Originally Posted by Vedad
Bismillah

Assalamu Aleykum wa rahmatullah wa barakatuhu

in the majority of the nasheeds you have music, i saw that a staff member posted that its haraam to listen to musicc, so why do you still have them?

:w: brother,

Brother, maybe its bcuz differnt ppls thoughts differ on whether music in nasheeds is aloud. Sum say it is, others do not. I think this MAY be the answer to your question.Sorry, if it isnt.
I mean, if you feel its not allowed, the refrain from listening to those nasheeds. I would recommend: Ahmad bukhatir. MashAllah, good meaning behind all of his nasheeds.

www.bukhatir.org

Allah ma3ak ya akhee.
Reply

Vedad
10-13-2005, 08:00 PM
wa aleykuma ssalam wa rahmatullah

sister, music/instruments ARE haram, i dunno if u follow al-qaradawi, but if u look at the majority of todays scholars they say clearly that ALL instruments are haraam, and in the days of the prophet(saws) it was haraam

please read this for further information inshallah:
http://www.muttaqun.com/music.html
http://63.175.194.25/index.php?ln=en...&QR=5000&dgn=4
http://63.175.194.25/index.php?ln=en...&QR=7453&dgn=4
http://63.175.194.25/index.php?ln=en...QR=20406&dgn=4
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Umm Yoosuf
10-13-2005, 08:06 PM
Assalaamu alikum Wa Rahmatulaah

This has been discussed before brother in detail. Please read throw this thread Insha Allah.

http://www.islamicboard.com/showthre...t=music+thread
Reply

Ameeratul Layl
10-14-2005, 07:41 AM
Originally Posted by Vedad
wa aleykuma ssalam wa rahmatullah

sister, music/instruments ARE haram, i dunno if u follow al-qaradawi, but if u look at the majority of todays scholars they say clearly that ALL instruments are haraam, and in the days of the prophet(saws) it was haraam

please read this for further information inshallah:
http://www.muttaqun.com/music.html
http://63.175.194.25/index.php?ln=en...&QR=5000&dgn=4
http://63.175.194.25/index.php?ln=en...&QR=7453&dgn=4
http://63.175.194.25/index.php?ln=en...QR=20406&dgn=4

:sl:
Yes, okay brother. But I only sed wat I sed bcuz not every1 thinks it haraam.

Allah ma3ak

p.s: I think its haram but not EVERYONE will agree.
Reply

Protected_Diamond
10-25-2005, 08:38 AM
I totally agree with you musical instruments in nasheeds r haraam
Reply

insan99
10-26-2005, 03:24 AM
Originally Posted by Proud ukht
I totally agree with you musical instruments in nasheeds r haraam
I totally DIS-agree that music is haram in Islam...there is nothing in the Quran or Authentic Sunnah (Bukhari/Muslim) that outlaws it. I don't care if some shiekh said it's haram, it's simply not.
Reply

Noor
10-26-2005, 03:30 AM
:sl:


"But there are, among men, those who purchase idle tales (Music, singing etc), without knowledge (or meaning), to mislead (men) from the Path of Allah and throw ridicule (on the Path): for such there will be a Humiliating Penalty." 31:6



:w:
Reply

insan99
10-26-2005, 03:32 AM
Salam,

Here's my question: What is inherently harmful of playing a musical instrument or listening to one? How does that damage a person? Please don't say it's because "it distracts you from Allah", because 1. Islamic Music/Nasheeds reminds you of Allah (Blakstone/Sami Yusuf) and 2. Driving a car distracts you from Allah...if you think of Allah completely you'll crash! There is a medium between worship and dunya. You need something wholesome and creative in order to have a balance between the two. Now...

Any good responses? Allah hafiz. :shade:
Reply

insan99
10-26-2005, 03:33 AM
Originally Posted by Noor
:sl:


"But there are, among men, those who purchase idle tales (Music, singing etc), without knowledge (or meaning), to mislead (men) from the Path of Allah and throw ridicule (on the Path): for such there will be a Humiliating Penalty." 31:6



:w:
So are you saying in arabic it says "music" or "singing"?
Reply

Uthman
10-26-2005, 11:32 AM
:sl:

Why do you need a reason to act upon Allah's will? Unless I'm mistaken, none of the ahadith claim that music is harmful. Indeed, for a believer the reason doesn't matter. Allah has a divine wisdom that we cannot comprehend and as far as reasoning goes, it is because Allah (SWT) and his messenger (SAWS) said so. We hear and we obey.

:w:

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sherbie cola
10-26-2005, 02:13 PM
I thought using yr voice and a drum was allowed?
Reply

czgibson
10-26-2005, 02:19 PM
Greetings,
Originally Posted by Noor
"But there are, among men, those who purchase idle tales (Music, singing etc), without knowledge (or meaning), to mislead (men) from the Path of Allah and throw ridicule (on the Path): for such there will be a Humiliating Penalty." 31:6
Forgive me for interrupting: I'd say that quote is very ambiguous, wouldn't you?

For more discussion see the thread mentioned by Jannah earlier on.

Peace
Reply

- Qatada -
10-26-2005, 03:05 PM
Originally Posted by sherbie cola
I thought using yr voice and a drum was allowed?
:sl: warahmatulahi wabarakatuh.

yeh sis, the use of a duff is allowed insha Allah.

`Aa'isha (R) said: "Allah's Messenger, sallallaahu `alaihi wa sallam, entered (my house) when I had two little girls singing the songs of Bu`aath (pre-Islamic war lore) and beating on a duff; so he lay down on the bed and turned his face away. Then Abu Bakr came in and scolded me saying, 'The flutes of Shaytaan played in the presence of Allah's Messenger?' So Allah's Messenger (saws), turned toward him and said, 'Leave them alone, O Abu Bakr! Every people have a `Eid, and this is our `Eid.' [Saheeh al-Bukhari, Muslim, Ahmad and ibn Maajah][/B]


but not any other musical instruments.. especially that ayah the sister showed earlier.
Reply

insan99
10-26-2005, 03:09 PM
Originally Posted by Osman
:sl:

Why do you need a reason to act upon Allah's will? Unless I'm mistaken, none of the ahadith claim that music is harmful. Indeed, for a believer the reason doesn't matter.
Subhanallah. So we are like christians then that follow blindly without understanding? I don't follow that school of thought.

Allah has a divine wisdom that we cannot comprehend and as far as reasoning goes, it is because Allah (SWT) and his messenger (SAWS) said so. We hear and we obey.

:w:
I totally agree. That doesn't mean we can't seek understanding to understand God's word. By your logic, we would never realize the magnitude of Allah's miracles...through technology we have confirmed scientific revelations in the Quran...not because we blindly said "oh that's just what God said so let's not look into it more".

Allah guide us.
Reply

insan99
10-26-2005, 03:20 PM
Originally Posted by akhee

yeh sis, the use of a duff is allowed insha Allah...

but not any other musical instruments.. especially that ayah the sister showed earlier.
Peoples...I'm still trying to get an explanation...what is INHERENTLY wrong with playing an instrument...and if there is something, why ONLY the duff? What is different between that and a tamborine? We are basing our behavior on a few hadiths which have not proven their authenticity. I'm a wrong?

Please don't tell me "cuz the hadith said so"...is the hadith the perfect word of God? No. Is there room for error on hadiths because they were recorded over 150 years after the prophet (pbuh) died? Yes. Remember only the Quran is undebatable. :)

Allah guide us.
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czgibson
10-26-2005, 03:28 PM
I'm sensing a "threads merged" is just around the corner...
Reply

Ansar Al-'Adl
10-26-2005, 03:37 PM
:sl:
Threads merged.
Reply

- Qatada -
10-26-2005, 03:43 PM
Originally Posted by insan99
We are basing our behavior on a few hadiths which have not proven their authenticity. I'm a wrong?
no sis, the hadith have all been classified with their authenticity;

the sahih hadith which include bukhari, muslim, tarmidhi etc. are all classed as solid authentic hadith and you cant question them.

because the following hadith is sahih; bukhari and muslim. it is authentic without question.


`Aa'isha (R) said: "Allah's Messenger, sallallaahu `alaihi wa sallam, entered (my house) when I had two little girls singing the songs of Bu`aath (pre-Islamic war lore) and beating on a duff; so he lay down on the bed and turned his face away. Then Abu Bakr came in and scolded me saying, 'The flutes of Shaytaan played in the presence of Allah's Messenger?' So Allah's Messenger (saws), turned toward him and said, 'Leave them alone, O Abu Bakr! Every people have a `Eid, and this is our `Eid.' [Saheeh al-Bukhari, Muslim, Ahmad and ibn Maajah]


therefore, you have to believe it whether you like it or not.. this is because in the holy qur'an it says:

"What Allah has bestowed on His Messenger (and taken away) from the people of the townships,- belongs to Allah,- to His Messenger and to kindred and orphans, the needy and the wayfarer; in order that it may not (merely) make a circuit between the wealthy among you. So take what the Messenger gives you, and refrain from what he prohibits you. And fear Allah: for Allah is strict in Punishment." (Quran 59:7)


Allah u a'lam (Allah (swt) knows best)
Reply

salehah
10-26-2005, 03:59 PM
salam everyone!

This remark leave of the beloved prophet..
'Leave them alone, O Abu Bakr! Every people have a `Eid, and this is our `Eid.'

is enough to explain that music is not haram within itself but the way it is used...
if it not then can anyone tell me one more EVIL or HARAM thing that prophet(pbuh) allowed on eids and marriages!!

rest there is no directive of Quran (Allah SWT's) and prophet(pbuh) that make music haram..
regarding saying to say certain type of drum or duff are allowed as by some Ulema, is a contradiction within itself..
just because at that time these were the most common music intruments used at that time in arab..
so now we are basing our religion on arab customs rather than Allah SWt commands and prophet (pbuh) sayings.
frankly duff and drum remind me of the belly dancing that ohhh so many arabs are fond of!!

i don't know why people can't see the sound reasoning and behave so illogically just because they refuse to use their brains as they have assigned SOMEONES else to do this job...
music is just another gadget and like many other things that didnt even exixt at that time .. like TV, cameras, video games, internet and even books it's THE USE not the thing itself that is haraam.
Allah SWT says ..
' everythjing in tihis universe is praising HIM.."
i hear music in the nature and think that they are praising Allah SWT.

and Allah is the one who knows the best!
may He guide us all

ameen!
re
Reply

salehah
10-26-2005, 04:02 PM
salaam
please dont mind my spelling and grammer .. i posted the response without checking it
jazakAllah
Reply

eyes_of_mine
10-26-2005, 04:08 PM
I agree with you salehuh and thats exactly the way I see it aswell :thumbs_up
Reply

- Qatada -
10-26-2005, 04:14 PM
wa alykum asalam warahmatulahi wabarakatuh.

no sis, there was quite a variety of instruments which were at the time of our beloved Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him and his beloved family). i'll relate some hadith which show that other musical instruments, especially bells which were also used at that time are disapproved of or even haraam in islam. keep in mind that tambourines are kinda like 'duffs' but with bells so therefore they (tambourines) are not allowed.


sahih muslim. Book 024, Number 5277:

Abu Huraira reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: Angels do not accompany the travellers who have with them a dog and a bell.



sahih muslim. Book 024, Number 5279:

Abu Huraira reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: The bell is the musical instrument of the Satan.



sunan abu dawud. Book 34, Number 4218:

Narrated Umar ibn al-Khattab:

Ibn az-Zubayr told that a woman client of theirs took az-Zubayr's daughter to Umar ibn al-Khattab wearing bells on her legs. Umar cut them off and said that he had heard the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) say: There is a devil along with each bell.



Allah u a'lam.



wasalam o 'alykum warahmatulahi wabarakatuh.
Reply

Hajar
10-26-2005, 04:20 PM
:sl:

Yeah sis,

I agree with bro akhee, he found evidence that showes us that Music is haram.
And like what you have said, is just your oppinion and not based on anything.
But not only me and akhee think like this, most scolars agree that music is Haram.. so you say that they are wrong?

So i think you should think this matter over again :)

:w:
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insan99
10-26-2005, 05:21 PM
No one is answering my question...they are just copying and pasting hadiths...what is INHERENTLY WRONG WITH PLAYING/LISTENING TO MUSICAL INSTRUMENTS? I need a logical answer not "believe it and shut up".
Reply

- Qatada -
10-26-2005, 05:35 PM
check this link out:

http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/F...716/music.html

it even shows what the scholars have to say about music and what affects it has on a muslim once they listen to haraam music. plz read it thoroughly.

jazak Allah khayr.

Allah u a'lam


wasalam o 'alykum warahmatulahi wabarakatuh.
Reply

eyes_of_mine
10-26-2005, 05:36 PM
If the bell is a musical instrument of satan then why is it described that an angel came with a bell like sound ? in hadith 01:002 bukhari

And what about the sound of a trumpet being sounded on the day of ressurection?

Also to consider is the hadith about Abu bakr getting angry about the kids playing music and the Prophet PBUH telling him to leave the kids alone and not bother them, I think its covered in the last page by salehah. hadith 15:70

Just things to ponder on.
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eyes_of_mine
10-26-2005, 05:40 PM
I think its obvious what the negative effects are of music when the music is haram kind of music, like rap music glorifying sexual liasions and drugs ect ect.
Also if you start adoring the singer it get into Idol worship , hence the title 'pop idol'
Musicical nasheeds and songs about Allah and the deen I just do not see any harm in them,
thats my logical explanation.
Reply

insan99
10-26-2005, 05:45 PM
Originally Posted by akhee
Salam,

No links, no copy and pasting. I want answers from Muslims on this board. That link didn't answer why music itself is INHERENTLY sinful. Maybe I'm on the wrong message board... :-[

The link simply conjectured on how evil music is and how it's the work of satan and will lead us to hell...I'm looking for practical evidence why Music is different than say Typing messages in a message board all day!
Reply

eyes_of_mine
10-26-2005, 05:48 PM
Drivers were given different types of music to listen to , to see how it effected their driving.
The ones who listened to classical music, drove very relaxed and almost docile
The ones who listened to dance music, took chances and and drove aggresivley,

Just another SMALL example of how music can influence you.

here is some more
Mr. Sasabe (G7) wrote:
I got caught speeding wice in my life and both of the times it was because I was listening to the music in my car and did not realize how fast I was going. Maybe it's all about the "training" that Dr. James has been talking about, but when my favorite music comes out, I just lose myself!

to see the rest of the report
http://www.soc.hawaii.edu/leonj/leonj/leonpsy8/g8r1music459.html
Reply

czgibson
10-26-2005, 05:54 PM
Greetings,

Classical music uses instruments though, doesn't it?

Insan99 - have a look earlier in this thread and you'll find plenty of people patiently explaining why music is considered haraam by many scholars. I don't really understand it myself, but have a look and you'll see the answers I was provided with.

One more thing - please chill out. There's no need to shout.

Peace
Reply

eyes_of_mine
10-26-2005, 05:59 PM
Classical music does of course use instruments, but if your listening to classical music it will atleast have a better physcological effect on you than say rap music.
But all the same it takes your thoughts away from Allah, in effect you are sort of worshipping the music, especially if you like it and listen to it all the time.

Thats why I think if you have to listen to music as personally I 'have to' as I love music, listen to something that is praising Allah or talking singing about Islam.
its more physcholohgically and spiritually rewarding than any other music.
Reply

insan99
10-26-2005, 06:02 PM
good point...music is also a method of instruction for kids with disablities and make remarkable results. What is haram about that? As long as the content is pure and you don't miss salat then what's wrong with music?
Reply

Muezzin
10-26-2005, 06:02 PM
On the other hand, Pop Idol can be very amusing.

One time there was this weird guy doing this batified dance to a Britney Spears song. Oh how we laughed :D
Reply

insan99
10-26-2005, 06:05 PM
Originally Posted by czgibson
Greetings,

Classical music uses instruments though, doesn't it?

Insan99 - have a look earlier in this thread and you'll find plenty of people patiently explaining why music is considered haraam by many scholars. I don't really understand it myself, but have a look and you'll see the answers I was provided with.

One more thing - please chill out. There's no need to shout.

Peace
I'm not "shouting" I'm emphasizing my point. You can chill out this isn't reality.

czgibson: please show me the information...I don't have time to look through 13 pages, especially when you mentioned you don't understand it anyway.
Reply

eyes_of_mine
10-26-2005, 06:07 PM
lol yes you have to watc pop idol for the mere entertainment factor, and actually it always shocks me how they are so desperate to 'buy' into the world of fake pop idol and sell thier souls, go naked ect all in the name of comercialised pop.

It makes me so happy Im not sucked into it, but yep defiantly funny when they can't sing ;D ;D ;D
There is that other one bump n grind, where its about being a 'dance idol' one girl got on her hands and knees and BEGGED like a dog to a jusdge to be given a mere chance to be picked for dance idol :eek:
Reply

Muezzin
10-26-2005, 06:10 PM
Originally Posted by eyes_of_mine
There is that other one bump n grind, where its about being a 'dance idol' one girl got on her hands and knees and BEGGED like a dog to a jusdge to be given a mere chance to be picked for dance idol :eek:
No dignity.

No shame.

Plenty of comedy. :p :D
Reply

- Qatada -
10-26-2005, 06:11 PM
:sl: warahmatulahi wabarakatuh.

one thing i just wna point out. if the authentic hadith state that its not allowed, then you have to follow the orders of our beloved Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him and his beloved family.)

"..We hear, and we obey: (We seek) Thy forgiveness, our Lord, and to Thee is the end of all journeys." (2:285)


we know that our beloved Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him and his beloved family) just wanted us to enter jannah, and he taught us what to do and what not to do to fulfill our mission, if you keep disagreeing and asking 'why is this?' then its up to you..

"Leave that which makes you doubt for that which does not make you doubt." (narrated by Termithi and Nasaee, and Tirmithi said it is true and fine hadith.)

wasalam o 'alykum warahmatulahi wabarakatuh.
Reply

Muezzin
10-26-2005, 06:12 PM
Originally Posted by insan99
good point...music is also a method of instruction for kids with disablities and make remarkable results. What is haram about that? As long as the content is pure and you don't miss salat then what's wrong with music?
What's the path to hell paved with? :p

Just playing Devil's Advocate here. Well, I am studying law... :p
Reply

eyes_of_mine
10-26-2005, 06:14 PM
Originally Posted by insan99
I'm not "shouting" I'm emphasizing my point. You can chill out this isn't reality.

czgibson: please show me the information...I don't have time to look through 13 pages, especially when you mentioned you don't understand it anyway.
Exscuse me , and sorry CZ to answer on your behalf, but what makes you think CZ has time to look throgh pages, your demands are rather rude, if you are truly interested in truth seeking you have to have patients and not demand people show you this and that simply becuase you cannot be bothered to look yourself.
To 'seek' out truth means just that :thumbs_up
Reply

Ansar Al-'Adl
10-26-2005, 07:53 PM
:sl:
The discussion on the logic behind avoiding music can be found HERE.

I would like members to remove any off-topic posts they have made.
:w:
Reply

insan99
10-26-2005, 08:56 PM
So the argument of music being a vital and great form of art that Muslims lack, is really ethnocentric.
And that makes sense how? Art is an expression which humans use to convey emotions and messages. This is a fundamental right and need by humans to take part in. Islam doesn't deny these rights and neither should Muslims.

Ok I give up...it's clear that no one can simply answer my question as to why Musical instruments are detrimental in itself to one's deen. People are quick to copy and paste hadiths, but no one can lay it out in plain english. Thanks for the effort I guess. Maybe I can get some better info from gawaher.com. Salam alaikum.
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Vedad
10-27-2005, 04:57 PM
wa aleykum assalam

when u listen to music, it sticks in ure head.. and u get the melody all the time in ure head.. how fun is that? to "recite" in a manner of singing?? or in a manner of music??

or ure going to pray and u start and then the music comes? HOW is that good?? in which way?? u answer that!
Reply

insan99
10-27-2005, 07:17 PM
Originally Posted by Vedad
wa aleykum assalam

when u listen to music, it sticks in ure head.. and u get the melody all the time in ure head.. how fun is that? to "recite" in a manner of singing?? or in a manner of music??

or ure going to pray and u start and then the music comes? HOW is that good?? in which way?? u answer that!
So you are saying if you have a song stuck in your head, you can't focus on God during prayer? That's funny, I can do that...
Reply

eyes_of_mine
10-27-2005, 08:59 PM
Me to , I never had a song stuck in my head during prayers.

I thought I would share with you all this explanation I heard from A scholor on Islam channel tonight, he gave what I believe is the best most explained answer I have ever heard on 'IS MUSIC HARAM ?'

Basically he said that it depends what type of music it is (will explain further for all those getting mad saying nooo all music is haram) If you listen to words that are haram or music that makes you want to act haram, then it is haram.
If you are listening to music that makes you act and think halal , then the music is halal.
Based on the music today which in its various forms it can be seductive, rebellious, hatefull, lusting ,relaxing ect ect.
99.5% of music you will find its haram, but there will be music that is halal, songs with music praising Allah (nasheeds), music on adverts (pending on if the advert is halal)
Music on the news, ect ect if that music is not having a bad effect on you and is not promoting something HARAM then it is halal.

TV's some say they are HARAM aswell, BUT if you watching something on the TV that is not HARAM, then the TV becomes HALAL.

The scholor went on to say that he knows we will say what about the hadiths referring to music being haram, and the scholor said that there is difference of opinon between scholors on these hadiths, but one school of thought said of the hadiths regarding music being haram, that a certain number were weak, a certain number were not autherntic and ONE was not clear on weather music was prohibited .

END

Music was prohoibited becuase of its connection to evil things, SO basically if music is not connected to anything EVIL and HARAM ,then yalla do not feel guilty when we enjoy our nasheeds !
His explanation makes sense to me .
Reply

insan99
10-27-2005, 10:20 PM
good point...I'm trying to separate the content of music from the musical sounds/instruments themselves.

1. Content: Can talk about haram or halal things. In this instance it's no different from simply having a discussion containing haram or halal topics.

2. Sounds/Instruments: There is music without any vocals (content)...such as classical music. The point I am trying to satisfy is that there is nothing inherently/intrinsically sinful with the playing or listening to musical instruments in and of themselves. If one supplants such behavior as higher in importance to salat or Islamic obligation, then that action is sinful.

Most muslims who contend that musical instruments are haram refer to the same hadith over and over (which has debatable authenticity/interpretation)...which doesn't even clearly say that musical instruments are to be forbidden.

As Muslims, we follow the Quran first and foremost...then refer to tested hadiths. We do not follow any other text as a source of Islamic guidance. If we label things because some early scholars or schools of thought did so, that doesn't make it any more accurate than a scholar of today's times.

Salam alaikum.
Reply

Taalib-e-'Ilm
10-28-2005, 07:59 AM
:sl: [b]

My brothers/sisters after a long time i am writing in the forums, but i was checking up this site time and again.... bak to this music business... Al- Awlaki states in his hereafter set a very authentic story regarding a man who was going through the period of sakraat al mawt. Music being played in the backgrouns and a pious person was passing by and said to the ppl of his house "dont u have any shame, this mans dying and you lot are playing songs?" so the ppl of the house took the music out and put quran on instead and the man dying said "no quit this thing put the music back on!!!!!" My brothers this story i've heard is not just from al= awlaki who resides in yemen at the moment, but have heard many a times by eastern shaykhs. ;) ...

Authenticity of music being haram...


Allah Most High says:

“And there are among men, those that purchase idle tales, to mislead (men) from the path of Allah and throw ridicule. For such there will be a humiliating punishment.” (Surah Luqman, V. 6)

The great Companion Sayyiduna Abd Allah ibn Mas’ud (Allah be pleased with him) states in the explanation of the word “idle tales”:

“By Allah its meaning is music.” (Sunan al-Bayhaqi, 1/223 & authenticated by al-Hakim in his Mustadrak, 2/411)

:w:
Reply

eyes_of_mine
10-28-2005, 04:08 PM
Salam Alykum
It could be that Im starving right now, that I do not quite get what your point is. I take it you are trying to say ALL music is Haram ?
Reply

Vedad
10-28-2005, 05:09 PM
Originally Posted by eyes_of_mine
Salam Alykum
It could be that Im starving right now, that I do not quite get what your point is. I take it you are trying to say ALL music is Haram ?
wa aleykum assalam wa rahmatullah

read this:

http://63.175.194.25/index.php?ln=en...&QR=7453&dgn=4 http://63.175.194.25/index.php?ln=en...&QR=5000&dgn=4
http://63.175.194.25/index.php?ln=en...QR=20406&dgn=4

A person that makes Haram halal ore vice versa is a kafir... so if u still go and say that music is halal though u saw evidence of it being haram then ure a what? a kafir! a unbeliever! non-muslim!


anything thats good is fro allah and evyrithing bad in this text is from me and the shaytan

wa allahu alem

assalamu aleykum
Reply

Vedad
10-28-2005, 05:12 PM
assalamu aleykum

Allaah says in Soorat Luqmaan (interpretation of the meaning):

“And of mankind is he who purchases idle talks (i.e. music, singing) to mislead (men) from the path of Allaah…” [Luqmaan 31:6]

The scholar of the ummah, Ibn ‘Abbaas (may Allaah be pleased with him) said: this means singing. Mujaahid (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: this means playing the drum (tabl). (Tafseer al-Tabari, 21/40).

Al-Hasan al-Basri (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: this aayah was revealed concerning singing and musical instruments (lit. woodwind instruments). (Tafseer Ibn Katheer, 3/451).

http://63.175.194.25/index.php?ln=en...&QR=5000&dgn=4
Reply

czgibson
10-28-2005, 05:27 PM
Greetings,

In what way does "idle talks" or "idle tales" mean music? Lots of music has no words at all.

Is there anywhere in the Qur'an where the text explicitly forbids instruments, or is this simply the interpretation of scholars?

Peace
Reply

Vedad
10-28-2005, 05:45 PM
Originally Posted by czgibson
Greetings,

In what way does "idle talks" or "idle tales" mean music? Lots of music has no words at all.

Is there anywhere in the Qur'an where the text explicitly forbids instruments, or is this simply the interpretation of scholars?

Peace
u better take that back about " simply the interpretation of scholars?"

Ibn ‘Abbaas(ra) was the Prophets(saws) cousin and one of the biggest scholars of islam! The Prophet(saws) prayed for him to get much knowledge, Mujaahid(ra) was a tabain, the generation after the sahabas(ra)
Al-Hasan al-Basri was also a tabain,

Al-Hasan ibn Abi al-Hasan Yasar Abu Sa'id al-Basri (d. 110), al-Faqîh, the great Imam of Basra, leader of the ascetics and scholars of his time. The son of a freedwoman of Umm Salama's (the Prophet's wife) and a freedman of Zayd ibn Thabit's (the Prophet's stepson). Umm Salama nursed him - Allah be well-pleased with her.

so HOW CAN U SAY THAT THE BEST OF PEOPLE are simply interpretating??? the most knowledgable ppl and u call them simply interpreting! u better take it back!!
Reply

Muezzin
10-28-2005, 06:23 PM
Whoah, there Vedad! :)

Originally Posted by czgibson
Greetings,

In what way does "idle talks" or "idle tales" mean music? Lots of music has no words at all.
I guess it stems from ballads, i.e. stories told in musical form - similar to the Viking sagas (or is it epics?)
Reply

eyes_of_mine
10-28-2005, 06:59 PM
The fact of the matter is this,
The hadiths relating to use of music, are up in the air with scholors, the authenticity of most of them is doubted and some are simply not clear enough.
Its obvious that singing praises to Allah and using musical instruments is not something badm it does not bring about anything haram at all.

And the question of what is HARAM about musical instruments has not been addresed.
And you wont find it addressed either.

Finally I personally have to use my best intention on the subject of music, if I believed the hadiths were strong enough to stay away from ALL music FOREVER, I will stay away from it, but as scholors themselves dispute is music totally haram or is a tiny percentage deemed as halal.
I am going to choose the middle ground, of listenig to music that is not promoting anything haram. if that makes me a kaffur, well hmmm not the 1st time I been called kaffur on this site and I doubt it will be the last, good thing I fear Allahs words and not those of mans.
Reply

Vedad
10-28-2005, 07:04 PM
WHATS GOOD ABOUT USING INSTRUMENTS?? SHaytan MADE THEM!! thhey are nothing but bad! wa allahu alem
Reply

eyes_of_mine
10-28-2005, 07:09 PM
Shaytan made musical intruments ?
I dont think so.
show me some place in Quran that supports the evidence that shaytan makes musical instruments.
Reply

salehah
10-28-2005, 07:44 PM
salam all!

what bro vaded you mean the simple ones l;ike flute and duff etc (allowed in islam) are NOT made by shaytan and the rest are??

Allah o Akbar!
Reply

- Qatada -
10-28-2005, 07:55 PM
i wna put 1 simple point forward too.. where in the qur'an and sunnah does it say musical instruments are allowed? apart from the duff.

jazak Allah khayr.


wasalam o 'alykum warahmatulahi wabarakatuh.
Reply

Vedad
10-28-2005, 08:02 PM
Originally Posted by salehah
salam all!

what bro vaded you mean the simple ones l;ike flute and duff etc (allowed in islam) are NOT made by shaytan and the rest are??

Allah o Akbar!
salam
when and where did I say that?? i dont remember... i reffer that all instruments are made by shaytan.. i mean its shaytans tool...

i wna put 1 simple point forward too.. where in the qur'an and sunnah does it say musical instruments are allowed? apart from the duff.
akhi, duff is only allowed for big occations and girls only wa allahu alem

salam aleykum
Reply

salehah
10-28-2005, 08:09 PM
so you mean to say the "SATAN TOOLS" are allowed on special occasians and for women only!


Allah ho Akber!
Reply

- Qatada -
10-28-2005, 08:17 PM
Originally Posted by Vedad
akhi, duff is only allowed for big occations and girls only wa allahu alem

salam aleykum
wa alykum asalam warahmatulahi wabarakatuh.

their allowed for bro's too insha Allah cz from the hadith regarding duff's, it doesn't say its not permissible for males.

`Aa'isha (R) said: "Allah's Messenger, sallallaahu `alaihi wa sallam, entered (my house) when I had two little girls singing the songs of Bu`aath (pre-Islamic war lore) and beating on a duff; so he lay down on the bed and turned his face away. Then Abu Bakr came in and scolded me saying, 'The flutes of Shaytaan played in the presence of Allah's Messenger?' So Allah's Messenger (saws), turned toward him and said, 'Leave them alone, O Abu Bakr! Every people have a `Eid, and this is our `Eid.' [Saheeh al-Bukhari, Muslim, Ahmad and ibn Maajah]


but yeh - like you said, i think its only allowed on special occasions too..

Allah u a'lam.


the question i was asking earlier on was supposed to be rhetorical though lol.. cz i want the people who say that its permissible to get a source for their answer... jazak Allah khayr.


and one final point i'd like to put across. most people keep repeating that these hadith aren't authentic and the qur'an is the only reliable source. i'd just like to say that the hadith above is from sahih bukhari (the 2nd most reliable authentic book for the muslims after the holy qur'an.) and therefore we should take it seriously. its not made up.

wasalam o 'alykum warahmatulahi wabarakatuh.
Reply

salehah
10-28-2005, 08:25 PM
Slaam brother

for every one who keep reminding me this is from sahi bukhari!
so are we comparing word of sahi bukhari with words of Allah SWT??
there are numerious hadiths which are weak! and these are one of them
now anyone knows what weak hadith is?

oh noplease I DONT DARE call them a lie for it will take me out of ISLAM..just weak .. meaning sources not reliable!!!
as if they'll be answering on my behalf!!

only Allah knows the best!
Reply

ola
10-28-2005, 08:31 PM
sis EYES OF MINE u make me laugh why ru makin fun of our religion wat allah says is wat we shld do and our guide is the prophet pbuh hmmmmm DID THE PROPHET LISTEN TO MUSIC ?? I DONT THINKK SOOOOO
SO WATEVER TYPE OF MUSIC ANYONE LISTENS 2 IS HARAM
I HOPE U UNDERSTAND
thx
Reply

- Qatada -
10-28-2005, 08:33 PM
wa alykum asalam warahmatulahi wabarakatuh.

sis, what makes you think there weak? and how are we comparing it to the words of Allah (swt) - the qur'an? what we say is in no way contradicting what the holy qur'an says insha Allah.

the sahih bukhari has all authentic hadith in, you can ask any scholar and they'll tell you that insha Allah. there separate hadith books after that which may have weak hadith in, but this is not with the 'sahih' hadith insha Allah.


Ibn al-Salah defines a sahih hadith precisely by saying:

"A sahih hadith is the one which has a continuous isnad, made up of reporters of trustworthy memory from similar authorities, and which is found to be free from any irregularities (i.e. in the text) or defects (i.e. in the isnad)."



Allah u a'lam.

wasalam o 'alykum warahmatulahi wabarakatuh.
Reply

Ansar Al-'Adl
10-28-2005, 08:49 PM
Originally Posted by salehah
for every one who keep reminding me this is from sahi bukhari!
so are we comparing word of sahi bukhari with words of Allah SWT??
there are numerious hadiths which are weak! and these are one of them
:sl:
You can't arbitrarily claim that a hadith is weak or authentic, it requires extensive investigation. Have you read the investigations of the Muhaditheen (Hadith scholars) ? Or are you speaking without evidence?

:w:
Reply

Vedad
10-28-2005, 09:18 PM
Originally Posted by akhee
wa alykum asalam warahmatulahi wabarakatuh.

sis, what makes you think there weak? and how are we comparing it to the words of Allah (swt) - the qur'an? what we say is in no way contradicting what the holy qur'an says insha Allah.

the sahih bukhari has all authentic hadith in, you can ask any scholar and they'll tell you that insha Allah. there separate hadith books after that which may have weak hadith in, but this is not with the 'sahih' hadith insha Allah.


Ibn al-Salah defines a sahih hadith precisely by saying:

"A sahih hadith is the one which has a continuous isnad, made up of reporters of trustworthy memory from similar authorities, and which is found to be free from any irregularities (i.e. in the text) or defects (i.e. in the isnad)."



Allah u a'lam.

wasalam o 'alykum warahmatulahi wabarakatuh.
wa aleykum assalam wa rahmatullah wa barakatuhu

akhi i dont know about listening but i think its about that, u decide inshallah:

Secondly:

The correct view is that it is not permissible to beat the daff except for women. If a man does that, he is imitating women, which is a major sin.

Shaykh al-Islam (Ibn Taymiyah – may Allaah have mercy on him) said:

In general, it is a well known principle of the Islamic religion that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) did not prescribe that the righteous men, devoted worshippers and ascetics of this ummah should gather to listen to verses of poetry chanted to the accompaniment of handclapping, rhythm sticks or daffs. It is not permissible for anyone to go beyond the limits of Islam and follow something other than that which was narrated in the Qur’aan and Sunnah, whether that has to do with inward matters or outward, whether for the common man or the elite. But the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) granted a concession for some kinds of entertainment on the occasion of weddings and the like, and he also granted a concession to women allowing them to beat the daff at weddings and on other joyous occasions. But with regard to the men of his time, none of them used to beat the daff or clap his hands, rather it was proven in al-Saheeh that he said, ‘Clapping is for women, and Tasbeeh is for men,’ and he cursed women who imitate men and men who imitate women.

Because singing, beating the daff and clapping the hands are actions of women, the salaf used to call a man who did that mukhannath (effeminate), and they used to call male singers makhaaneeth (pl. of mukhannath). This is well known.

Majmoo’ al-Fataawa, 11/565, 566

Ibn Hajar said:

The strong (qawiy) ahaadeeth indicate that this is permissible for women, but that does not include men, because of the general meaning of the prohibition on men imitating women.

Fath al-Baari, 9/226

Shaykh ‘Abd al-‘Azeez ibn Baaz (may Allaah have mercy on him) said:

Rather the concession allowing women to use the daff is for them only. With regard to men, it is not permissible for them to do any of that, whether on weddings or on other occasions. Rather Allaah has prescribed for men to train in the instruments of war and skills needed for battle, such as shooting and horse riding, and competing in that.

Majallat al-Jaami’ah al-Islamiyyah (Magazine of the Islamic University in al-Madeenah al-Munawwarah), 3rd edition, 2nd year, Muharram, 1390 AH, p. 185, 186

And he also said:

With regard to weddings, it is prescribed to beat the daff and sing regular songs which do not call for or praise anything that is haraam. This is to be done at night, by women only, to announce the wedding and to emphasize the difference between this legitimate marriage and zina (adultery) which is done in secret, as was narrated in the saheeh Sunnah from the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him).

Al-Tabarruj wa Khataruhu (Wanton display and its dangers)

Source
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- Qatada -
10-28-2005, 09:20 PM
:sl: warahmatulahi wabarakatuh.

jazak Allah khayr fo dat bro :) i never knew that.


wasalam o 'alykum warahmatulahi wabarakatuh.
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eyes_of_mine
10-28-2005, 09:27 PM
Good one salehah :thumbs_up
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Vedad
10-29-2005, 10:56 AM
Originally Posted by salehah
Slaam brother

for every one who keep reminding me this is from sahi bukhari!
so are we comparing word of sahi bukhari with words of Allah SWT??
there are numerious hadiths which are weak! and these are one of them
now anyone knows what weak hadith is?

oh noplease I DONT DARE call them a lie for it will take me out of ISLAM..just weak .. meaning sources not reliable!!!
as if they'll be answering on my behalf!!

only Allah knows the best!
just wanna say, sahih bukhari is 100% truth and U MUST FOLLOW IT when u see its evidence!! its wajib,

Originally Posted by eyes_of_mine
Good one salehah :thumbs_up
i guess u mean with that about sahih bukhari?? u just dont want to stop surprising me.. u say that the word of rasulullah(saws) is nothing worth cause allah(swt) didnt say it?

004.069
All who obey Allah and the messenger are in the company of those on whom is the Grace of Allah,- of the prophets (who teach), the sincere (lovers of Truth), the witnesses (who testify), and the Righteous (who do good): Ah! what a beautiful fellowship!

AND THE MESSENGER! remember that! and the messenger, if u follow ALLAH(SWT) AND Rasulullah(saws) then ure going to be one of those who Allah(swt) bestows His grace. u cant just follow the Quran, u MUST follow the WORD of tHE PROPHET(SAWS)

053.002
Your Companion is neither astray nor being misled.

053.003
Nor does he say (aught) of (his own) Desire.

053.004
It is no less than inspiration sent down to him:

053.005
He was taught by one Mighty in Power,

053.006
YUSUFALI: Endued with Wisdom: for he appeared (in stately form);

i think this is about th prophet(saws), what do u think?? he doesnt speak of his own desire but of that that ALlah(Swt) inspired him to say!! if u still say that u cant follow the speaking of the prophet(saws), then its surely something wrong

wa allahu alem
Reply

eyes_of_mine
10-29-2005, 02:15 PM
Originally Posted by salehah
salam all!

what bro vaded you mean the simple ones l;ike flute and duff etc (allowed in islam) are NOT made by shaytan and the rest are??

Allah o Akbar!

This was what I said good one to , I didnt see the thread continued to another page. :thumbs_up
Reply

czgibson
10-29-2005, 02:22 PM
Greetings Vedad,
I think you may have misunderstood me.
Originally Posted by Vedad
u better take that back about " simply the interpretation of scholars?"

Ibn ‘Abbaas(ra) was the Prophets(saws) cousin and one of the biggest scholars of islam! The Prophet(saws) prayed for him to get much knowledge, Mujaahid(ra) was a tabain, the generation after the sahabas(ra)
Al-Hasan al-Basri was also a tabain,

Al-Hasan ibn Abi al-Hasan Yasar Abu Sa'id al-Basri (d. 110), al-Faqîh, the great Imam of Basra, leader of the ascetics and scholars of his time. The son of a freedwoman of Umm Salama's (the Prophet's wife) and a freedman of Zayd ibn Thabit's (the Prophet's stepson). Umm Salama nursed him - Allah be well-pleased with her.

so HOW CAN U SAY THAT THE BEST OF PEOPLE are simply interpretating??? the most knowledgable ppl and u call them simply interpreting! u better take it back!!
I thought that words quoted in brackets are the interpretations of scholars. Am I wrong?

When I used the word "simply", I did not mean to say that their interpretations are simple, just that they are not part of the text of the Qur'an.

Peace
Reply

eyes_of_mine
10-29-2005, 02:41 PM
Salams Vader
I had a chance to catch up now, and I understand exactly what saleha is trying to say.
But as usual we find people jumping up and getting defensive without they truly understood the point that was trying to be made.
Reply

ABWAN
10-29-2005, 03:00 PM
Assalamu alaikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuh,

Originally Posted by eyes_of_mine
The fact of the matter is this,
The hadiths relating to use of music, are up in the air with scholors, the authenticity of most of them is doubted and some are simply not clear enough.
Its obvious that singing praises to Allah and using musical instruments is not something badm it does not bring about anything haram at all.

And the question of what is HARAM about musical instruments has not been addresed.
And you wont find it addressed either.

Finally I personally have to use my best intention on the subject of music, if I believed the hadiths were strong enough to stay away from ALL music FOREVER, I will stay away from it, but as scholors themselves dispute is music totally haram or is a tiny percentage deemed as halal.
I am going to choose the middle ground, of listenig to music that is not promoting anything haram. if that makes me a kaffur, well hmmm not the 1st time I been called kaffur on this site and I doubt it will be the last, good thing I fear Allahs words and not those of mans.


Excuse me for jumping in without having gone through all the posts here...but I was a little surprised to see some comments and I thought I might contribute my own mite as well.

Sister eyes_of_mine, your comments here caught my attention as I thought this was in some way contradicting your comments in another thread:

It is said that if something falls into the doubtfull areas, things we cannot be sure about then one should avoid the doubtfull things.

I think I made it clear that it is at the very least doubtfull and still till now Im wondering how one comes to the decision that everything that is doubtfull is halal till proven haram.

Well if it we are to say everything is halal untill prooved haram isn't that dangerous ?
I am NOT trying to get into an argument of ANY sort...I am just trying to figure out the rationale behind approving something to be halal when it is not explicitly mentioned so in Al-Quran and something to be haram.


Sister Salehah, If you had mentioned that this hadith in sahih bukhari is weak (please correct me if i am wrong), I would like to know how you came to that conclusion. Could you please provide a source that would prove your claim comprehensively? From what I know Ibn Abbas (ra) is a remarkable personality with a very deep understanding of the words of Allah(swt). In fact of all the sahabis, he probably is among the very few who had such a deep understanding of the Quran that people often came to him asking questions about certain ayah. So I would consider the hadith to be authentic (after all that's what *sahih* means I guess). But if you could prove it to be a weak hadith, I would like you to show some concrete proof for it (like who in the isnad is weak etc).
Reply

Uthman
10-29-2005, 03:04 PM
:sl:

I agree with Abwan. Furthermore, the authenticity of the hadith is clearly established here

Moreover, Muhammad (SAWS) said:

The halal is clear and the haram is clear. Between the two there are doubtful matters concerning which people do not know whether they are halal or haram. One who avoids them in order to safeguard his religion and his honor is safe, while if someone engages in a part of them he may be doing something haram, like one who grazes his animals near the hima (the grounds reserved for animals belonging to the King which are out of bounds for others' animals); it is thus quite likely that some of his animals will stray into it. Truly, every king has a hima*, and the hima of Allah is what He has prohibited.
(Reported by al-Bukhari' Muslim, and others; the narration is taken from al Tirmidhi.)

*Hima means "inviolate zones"

:w:

Reply

Vedad
10-29-2005, 03:57 PM
Originally Posted by czgibson
Greetings Vedad,
I think you may have misunderstood me.


I thought that words quoted in brackets are the interpretations of scholars. Am I wrong?

When I used the word "simply", I did not mean to say that their interpretations are simple, just that they are not part of the text of the Qur'an.

Peace
its a part of the quran cause its the meaning of the verse, its a part of the quran.. mabe it doesnt say that exactly but idle talk means singing, music etc
Reply

Uthman
10-29-2005, 04:15 PM
Greetings Callum,

Again, I would direct you to this site for a detailed explanation.

Regards,

Reply

czgibson
10-29-2005, 05:49 PM
Greetings,

Thanks, Osman, for pointing out the site again. I tried looking for it but couldn't find it since this is quite a long thread.

As far as I can see, the verses the author quotes from the Qur'an do not mention instruments explicitly, but the hadiths do.

Vedad, on the point about scholarly interpretations, it seems manifest to me that the interpretations are not part of the text of the Qur'an - they are additions which have been added later, no?

I see the point you make about the meaning inhering in the original, but since scholars disagree over the meanings of specific words, who can say which meaning actually resides in the text? To decide that would take additional study to uncover what is implicit in the text - something that may not be stated directly.

Many texts have interpretations applied to them, but we would not normally say that these are actually part of the text.

Coming back to the point about "idle talks": I can see how this could refer to music with singing, but I'm not sure how it could be interpreted as having something to do with instruments as well. This probably has something to do with my ignorance of Arabic. Or have the scholars used the ahadith to help with interpreting the Qur'an?

Peace
Reply

Uthman
10-29-2005, 06:20 PM
Greetings Callum,

I am sure that the Qur'anic verse refers solely to singing. The part prohibiting instruments was told to us by Muhammad (SAWS) himself.

Gotta go

Peace,

Reply

eyes_of_mine
10-30-2005, 05:17 AM
Originally Posted by ABWAN
Assalamu alaikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuh,





Excuse me for jumping in without having gone through all the posts here...but I was a little surprised to see some comments and I thought I might contribute my own mite as well.

Sister eyes_of_mine, your comments here caught my attention as I thought this was in some way contradicting your comments in another thread:



I am NOT trying to get into an argument of ANY sort...I am just trying to figure out the rationale behind approving something to be halal when it is not explicitly mentioned so in Al-Quran and something to be haram.


Sister Salehah, If you had mentioned that this hadith in sahih bukhari is weak (please correct me if i am wrong), I would like to know how you came to that conclusion. Could you please provide a source that would prove your claim comprehensively? From what I know Ibn Abbas (ra) is a remarkable personality with a very deep understanding of the words of Allah(swt). In fact of all the sahabis, he probably is among the very few who had such a deep understanding of the Quran that people often came to him asking questions about certain ayah. So I would consider the hadith to be authentic (after all that's what *sahih* means I guess). But if you could prove it to be a weak hadith, I would like you to show some concrete proof for it (like who in the isnad is weak etc).
Salam Alykum
Well, when I started to hear some time ago that music was haram amongst 10000 other things, I put music virtually 98% to one side and only listened to Quran and only just recently a few nasheeds, why did i do that ?
Becuase I was not clear and I doubted it, so I thought best leave it till Im more sure on this before I listen to any more music.

And so started to ask (amongst asking about 1000 other things everyone told me is haram and I will be kaffur If I break this rule and that rule)
And finally I find the best explanation that my heart and mind accepted to be most likely to be the truth.

Is music haram, I agree majority of it is, but I do believe some music is halal , if music at wedding was halal, then I have no doubt that music praising allah is halal, how on earth can it be haram, since musical instruments ARE not evil, it is what they are used for.

The evidence is there really in Quran but not all can see what the other see's.
:thumbs_up
Reply

Uthman
10-30-2005, 10:30 AM
:sl: eyes_of_mine,

As you said in one of your previous posts, scholars themselves dispute over the matter. Isn't that enough to place some doubt upon it?

:w:

Reply

imran_c
10-30-2005, 10:42 AM
:w:
O Brothers and Sisters we have come to the time were people will say alcholo is halal and forincation (zina) is allowed and music will be heard by many and therefore people will class it halal

What most muslim attend to say is give me a Quran reciation?!? i.e. Sami Yusuf

his voice is beutfil but his music is haram. if you wish to start with first album and start a pertition to tell him that music is haram i think he would listen but however thiss topic is on music is haram

if anyone has any surah to do with music please post them becuase many people belive that Quran is Quran and hadith is hadiths

like take example my family . My father has disunited with my uncles and aunts and are still disunited for many years my father has disunited with my own gran mum (his mother) but when i confront him with hadiths he wont listen. when i give him quran reciation he wont listen. This is the same most people ill agree that music is haram but will attend to hear it. What i think we should do is start with Quran surah and then go to authintic hadiths to other hadiths becuase other wise people wont listeen here an article of my understand why music is haram:

The Noble Qur'an - Luqman 31:6

And of mankind is he who purchases idle talks (i.e. music, singing, etc.) to mislead (men) from the Path of Allah without knowledge, and takes it (the Path of Allah, the Verses of the Qur'an) by way of mockery. For such there will be a humiliating torment (in the Hell-Fire).


Ibn Masood (ra) said about this verse "I swear by the One other than Whom there is no God that it refers to singing [ghinaa].", and he repeated this three times. Ibn Abbaas (ra) said it refered to 'singing and the like' while Jaabir (ra) is reported to view its meaning to signify singing and listening to songs. Many taabi'oon such as Mujaahid, Ikrimah, Mak-hool and Umar ibn Shu'ayb viewed it as a censure of music and song.

Hadith - Bukhari (#787) [Also related by Tabari]

Sa'id ibn Jbayr reported that Ibn 'Abbas said about the verse: "And of mankind is he who purchases idle talks" (31:6), that, "ldle talks means singing and the like."


The Noble Qur'an - Al-Isra 17:64

"And Istafiz [literally means: befool them gradually] those whom you can among them with your voice (i.e. songs, music, and other call for Allah's disobedience)..."


Hadith - Bukhari 7:494

Narrated Abu 'Amir or Abu Malik Al-Ash'ari that he heard the Prophet saying, "From among my followers there will be some people who will consider illegal sexual intercourse, the wearing of silk, the drinking of alcoholic drinks, and the use of musical instruments as lawful. And (from them), there will be some who will stay near the side of a mountain, and in the evening their shepherd will come to them with their sheep and ask them for something, but they will say to him, 'Return to us tomorrow.' Allah will destroy them during the night and will let the mountain fall on them, and Allah will transform the rest of them into monkeys and pigs and they will remain so till the Day of Resurrection."


The Noble Qur'an - An-Najm 53:57-62

The Day of Resurrection draws near, None besides Allah can avert it, (or advance it, or delay it). Do you then wonder at this recital (the Qur'an)? And you laugh at it and weep not, Wasting your (precious) lifetime in pastime and amusements (singing, etc.). So fall you down in prostration to Allah, and worship Him (Alone).

‘Ikrimah (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: it was narrated from Ibn ‘Abbaas that al-sumood [verbal noun from saamidoon, translated here as “Wasting your (precious) lifetime in pastime and amusements (singing)”] means “singing”, in the dialect of Himyar; it might be said “Ismidi lanaa” [‘sing for us’ – from the same root as saamidoon/sumood] meaning “ghaniy” [sing]. And he said (may Allaah have mercy on him): When they [the kuffaar] heard the Qur’aan, they would sing, then this aayah was revealed.
Ibn Katheer (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: Allah says (interpretation of the meaning) “Wasting your (precious) lifetime in pastime and amusements (singing)” – Sufyaan al-Thawri said, narrating from his father from Ibn ‘Abbaas: (this means) singing. This is Yemeni (dialect): ismad lana means ghan lana [sing to us]. This was also the view of ‘Ikrimah. (Tafseer Ibn Katheer).


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Use of a Simple Drum


Use of the "duff" (simple drum) is permitted in Islam for a practical purpose (such as establishing a simple beat for exercise, rowing, and other labors), but not to be done by a Muslim for entertainment or idleness. In such instances, it must not be played as music, such as by enhancing rhythm, whistling a tune and whatnot. Ibn al-Qayyim said in Ighaathat al-Lahfaan (1/256) that the prohibition against the use of instruments refers to "all kinds of things used for entertainment."

According to the Sunnah, females can sing and beat the duff on the two 'Eids (specific Muslim celebrations) and to announce a Muslim wedding amongst themselves, and their voices shouldn't be raised loud enough or near enough to be heard by the men.

Poetry is also permitted, but it must not contain shirk (the major sin of associating a partner in worship with Allah, i.e. trinity, major or minor shirk, etc.).

The woman's voice should not be used in an attractive way around non-mahram men and to them it must be limited to necessity (physical necessity such as asking for something at the store, not emotional 'necessity' such as social conversation). Men and women must not engage in idle or social conversations with non-mahrams (those not related as specified in The Quran). Muslim men should avoid listening to a non-related (i.e. non-mahram) female voice (such as pop singers, etc.) except when it is unavoidable or due to her speaking out of necessity and not socializing.


The Noble Qur'an - An-Najm 53:57-62

The Prophet came to me after consuming his marriage with me and sat down on my bed as you (the sub-narrator) are sitting now, and small girls were beating the duff* and singing in lamentation of my father who had been killed on the day of the battle of Badr. Then one of the girls said, "There is a Prophet amongst us who knows what will happen tomorrow." The Prophet [saaws] said (to her),"Do not say this, but go on saying what you have spoken before."

* duff /daff- a one-sided drum made of animal skin.
The Noble Qur'an - Al-Ahzab 33:32
O wives of the Prophet! You are not like any other women. If you keep your duty (to Allâh), then be not soft in speech, lest he in whose heart is a disease (of hypocrisy, or evil desire for adultery, etc.) should be moved with desire, but speak in an honourable manner.



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Explanation from Sheikh Ibn Baz

Shaykh Ibn Baz (may Allah have mercy on him) said in Majmoo' al-Fataawa, 3/423-424:

"Ma'aazif refers to singing and musical instruments. The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) told us that at the end of time there will come a people who will allow these things just as they will allow alcohol, zina and silk. This is one of the signs of his Prophethood, for all of this has happened. The hadeeth indicates that [musical instruments] are haram (prohibited), and condemns those who say they are halal (permissible), just as it condemns those who say that alcohol and zina are allowed. The aayaat and ahaadeeth that warn against singing and musical instruments are many indeed. Whoever claims that Allaah has allowed singing and musical instruments is lying and is committing a great evil. We ask Allaah to keep us from obeying our desires and the Shaytaan. Even worse and more seriously sinful than that are those who say it is mustahabb. Undoubtedly this stems from ignorance about Allaah and His Religion; it is insolent blasphemy against Allaah and lying about His Laws.

What is mustahabb (recommended) is to beat on the daff [simple hand drum] at weddings. This is mustahabb for women only, in order to announce the wedding and to distinguish it from fornication. There is nothing wrong with women singing amongst themselves, accompanied by the daff, so long as the songs contain no words that encourage evil or distract people from their duties. It is also a condition that this should take place among women only, and there should be no mixing with men. It should also not cause any annoyance or disturbance to neighbours. What some people do, of amplifying such singing with loudspeakers is evil, because of the disturbance it causes to other Muslims, neighbours and others. It is not permissible for women, in weddings or on other occasions, to use any instrument other than the daff, such as the oud, violin, rebab (stringed instrument) and so on. This is evil, and the only concession that women are given is that they may use the daff.

As for men, it is not permissible for them to play any kind of musical instrument, whether at weddings or on any other occasion. What Allaah has prescribed for men is training in the use of instruments of war, such as target practice or learning to ride horses and competing in that, using spears, shields, tanks, airplanes and other things such as cannons, machine guns, bombs and anything else that may help jihaad for the sake of Allaah."



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Hadith - Sunan of Abu Dawood, #4909, Narrated Abdullah ibn Mas'ud

Salam ibn Miskin, quoting an old man who witnessed AbuWa'il in a wedding feast, said: They began to play, amuse and sing. He united the support of his hand round his knees that were drawn up, and said: I heard Abdullah (ibn Mas'ud) say: I heard the apostle of Allah (peace be upon him) say: Singing produces hypocrisy in the heart.



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Intentions as it Relates to Hearing Music

Shaykh Ibn Taymiyah (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: Concerning (music) which a person does not intend to listen to, there is no prohibition or blame, according to scholarly consensus. Hence blame or praise is connected to listening, not to hearing. The one who listens to the Qur'aan will be rewarded for it, whereas the one who hears it without intending or wanting to will not be rewarded for that, because actions are judged by intentions. The same applies to musical instruments which are forbidden: if a person hears them without intending to, that does not matter. (al-Majmoo', 10/78).

Imaam Maalik (may Allaah have mercy on him) was asked about playing the drum or flute, if a person happens to hear the sound and enjoy it whilst he is walking or sitting. He said: He should get up if he finds that he enjoys it, unless he is sitting down for a need or is unable to get up. If he is on the road, he should either go back or move on. (al-Jaami' by al-Qayrawaani, 262). He (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: "The only people who do things like that, in our view, are faasiq's." (Tafseer al-Qurtubi, 14/55).

Ibn Taymiyah (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: It is not permissible to make musical instruments. (al-Majmoo', 22/140). And he said: According to the majority of fuqahaa', it is permissible to destroy musical instruments, such as the tanboor [a stringed instrument similar to a mandolin]. This is the view of Maalik and is the more famous of the two views narrated from Ahmad. (al-Majmoo', 28/113). Ibn Abi Shaybah (may Allaah have mercy on him) reported that a man broke a mandolin belonging to another man, and the latter took his case to Shurayh. But Shurayh did not award him any compensation, i.e., he did not make the first man pay the cost of the mandolin, because it was haram and had no value. (al-Musannaf, 5/395).
Reply

ABWAN
10-30-2005, 02:06 PM
Originally Posted by eyes_of_mine
Salam Alykum
And finally I find the best explanation that my heart and mind accepted to be most likely to be the truth.

Is music haram, I agree majority of it is, but I do believe some music is halal , if music at wedding was halal, then I have no doubt that music praising allah is halal, how on earth can it be haram, since musical instruments ARE not evil, it is what they are used for.

The evidence is there really in Quran but not all can see what the other see's.
Why don't you share that explanation with us?

If majority of music is haram and some are made halal, how could one figure out which is haram and which is not? Is it left to the listener to judge based on his/her own instincts? If so, how fair would such a judgement be? Someone might feel a heavy percussioned rap song with ebonics praising the lord is halal while others may think otherwise!

Where does it explicitly say that music (and by music i mean songs with musical instruments and not just singing) at wedding is halal? I was under the impression that it was a cultural thing and got nothing to do with Islam as such.

If the evidence is there in the Quran, I would appreciate if you could share it with us. I kinda agree with your comment that *"not all can see what the others see"*, but does it also not depend on how well one is qualified to see it in a different way and how much he/she has mastered the words of Allah(swt) and the sunnah ?
Reply

Silver Pearl
10-30-2005, 06:11 PM
:w: Warahmatullahi wabarakatuh,

Even those who try to argue that music is lawful know, even if it is subconsciously that it is not permissible. Music which is played in weddings tends to be duff (from my experience). Also you get women who sing, usually just about the groom and bride and stuff like that. If you’ve been to a segregated islamically influenced weddings you’ll understand what I mean. In that sense the ‘music’ is then permissible, halal. However, the duff is an exception. Like many have stated before music is haram. Whether you choose to follow that or not is up to you. I’m sure we are all old enough here to realise that no one else will bear our sins. In addition some people have a weakness for listening to music, while other people’s weakness may lie in being kind or flirting. So it is best to see listening to music as a weakness that can be beaten. Deluding yourself and wishing and hoping that music is halal will not do anyone any favors. In society listening to music is almost inevitable, whether it is from hearing it in the work place or in the classroom. However, it is up to each individual to have the desire and motivation to do what is good. Also intention is a vital thing that does not mean you can sin and say ‘but my intentions were good.’

Allah (swt) knows best. Rabbeq firleey
Reply

czgibson
10-30-2005, 06:43 PM
Greetings,

The aayaat and ahaadeeth that warn against singing and musical instruments are many indeed.
I've seen several ahadith that make the impermissibility of musical instruments clear, but no verses from the Qur'an. Why do I see the above claim so often if there are in fact no verses from the Qur'an which forbid musical instruments?

Peace
Reply

eyes_of_mine
10-31-2005, 01:26 AM
This is one of those topics that can go on forever, I could say why I think listening to certain kind of musics is halal inshallah and there will be people who always come and argue against it, at the end of the day I hope I judged right and understood it right and by the way my final decision did not lay just upon the feeling in my heart that some music is halal i.e sammi yusuf.

I made my final choice on a scholor a very respected scholors words of wisdom as he obviously is a person knows more than me, and believe it or not, I do actually listen to scholors and respect them contrary to what some of you may think.

so all those who want to ban tvs and radios (yes all your ramadan radio stations who play music on the ads and Islam TV channels that play music) you all go ahead and have nothing to do with it, if you feel in your minds and hearts its ALL haram.

Meanwhile I made my decision with the best of intentions and let allah be my judge if Im wrong or right.

I respect peoples choice when they say we think , we say music is haram all of it, like I say we all got different eyes, and to be honest there are much bigger things I can think of to be bothered about than trying to make everyone disown or accept music. As long as we all accept laa ilaaha illallaahu wah-dahu laa shareeka lahu, wa muhammadan abduhu wa rasooluhu.

Just an after thought though, for those that think all music and music instruments are haram , how are you with people like me who believe that some of it is halal ?
Reply

Silver Pearl
10-31-2005, 06:16 PM
:w: Warahmatullahi wabarakatuh,

Though I understand what you say and the view point in which you’re trying to portray, I don’t agree with you. This does not mean I’ll sit here and judge you, to be frankly honest I fear judging others, wallahi.

Now just because a musical song has things relevant to Islam does not mean it is lawful.

The majority of us here on this board are not qualified to pass our ijtihad, concluding something based solely on emotional attachment and desire for your judgment to be correct does not validate such view. Now most ulama agree that music is haram, and it is one thing to establish that music is unlawful and another thing to deny such majority agreed on fact.

There isn’t one of us that will say they have never encountered music, it is inevitable as I said before in my post. Nonetheless this is not the same as intentionally listening to music, waAllahu’3llim.

At the end of the day our 3mal only lies with the choices we make. If your conscience can allow you to do what you please then good for you. Personally I would rather be on the safe side rather than gabbling the chance that music may be lawful. Small sins will eventually become big.

Don’t mistake this post sister as me telling you off, or trying to push you towards how I see the issue. I’m sure you’re old enough to make your own choice. If my words have wronged please do forgive me, fee sabilillah.

May Allah (swt) guide all his slaves to the siratul mustakeen.
Reply

- Qatada -
10-31-2005, 06:27 PM
ameen to your dua' sis and masha Allah a nice post.

i'd just like to point out that people keep mentioning the idea of 'having a good intention' and because the lyrix are halaal - that the rest of the music is too.


the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him and his beloved family) said; "From among my followers there will be some people who will consider illegal sexual intercourse, the wearing of silk, the drinking of alcoholic drinks and the use of musical instruments, as lawful. And there will be some people who will stay near the side of a mountain and in the evening their shepherd will come to them with their sheep and ask them for something, but they will say to him, 'Return to us tomorrow.' Allah will destroy them during the night and will let the mountain fall on them, and He will transform the rest of them into monkeys and pigs and they will remain so till the Day of Resurrection."
(Bukhari Hadith: Volume 7, Book 69, Number 494)


now, by just referring to that hadith (which is proven authentic) - it is directly mentioned that some will say its permissible [when its not] and nowhere within that hadith does it say 'unless the person has a good intention' or 'if the lyrix are halaal'. and like the brothers and sisters have said earlier - we dont have the right to say whether its halaal unless we have evidence. Allah u a'lam, jazak Allah khayr.


wasalam o 'alykum warahmatulahi wabarakatuh.
Reply

salehah
10-31-2005, 09:17 PM
Salam all!
somehow this topic was not showing on my browser for sometime!
anyways now it is and I am answering it ~
i can cut n paste posts on post confirming my point of veiw? but that's not what i am here for... and that was not the reason i made that point!

i only seek guidance from Allah SWT... whom I submit to ...submit to please Him not the masses!

don't think i am being judgemental but most of the people i know beleive what they beleive in because they were told so..or should i put it this way were Brain washed like so!!
well to me
THE TRUTH HAS NO CONRADICTION!!

So Quran is basically the only truth i know for sure..
Allah SWT's pure words with absolutely no adultration as Allah Himself promised to save it!!
but the meaning they try to change from time to time to serve their own purposes ..
mostly to prove the ahadiths they are so stubbornly attached to.

well this my brothers and sisters is a very similar behaviour ..
the one we saw was common among ehle kitab

uhmm... let me remind you all now ...

compared to 1400 + years after the nazool of Quran only 500 + years before Prophet Mohammad( peace be upon him), Allah SWT gave hazarat Esa(PBUH) the prophacy and the BOOK, similar to Quran as Allah SWT says in Quran!!

Now I a pretty sure the common people of that time NEVER even thought in their DREAMS that THEIR SCHOLARS could change the words of ALLAH SWT himself from the Holly Book... just like today..
uhmm doesnt that sound familiar

They followed them blindly... and eventually !!!! we all know what happened.
Are we not doing what ahlekitab did?

they made things HARAM for them which ALLAH SWT never did.. making their lives more and more difficult just as Allah SWT said in Quran.

"All food was lawful to the children of Israel except that which Israel had forbidden to himself, before the Taurat was revealed.
Say: Bring then the Taurat and read it, if you are truthful. "
Surah AL-E-IMRAN verse 93..
and other places..
NOTE here too Allah is Asking them to bring the BOOK HE revealed as their proof??

anyways the thing for my concern is whether they are going to be excused for something they were not even directly involved in...i mean at that time too the whole authority of DEEN was with the SCHOLARS only ..

so should they be punished for something they were not even part of?
they just beleived what they were told ...
and then Quran gives me the light once agian!!

"He will say: "Enter ye in the company of the peoples who passed away before you - men and jinns, - into the Fire." Every time a new people enters, it curses its sister-people (that went before), until they follow each other, all into the Fire. Saith the last about the first: "Our Lord! it is these that misled us: so give them a double penalty in the Fire." He will say: "Doubled for all" : but this ye do not understand. "
Surah Al Araf, verse 38..

and yet another place even for prophet Allah SWT says..

"O Prophet! Why holdest thou to be forbidden that which Allah has made lawful to thee? Thou seekest to please thy consorts. But Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful. "
Surah AT-TAHRIM verse number 1

I think i made my point.

Now for people who say as bukhari being 100% truth ...
prove my point only..
they are making comparing Allah's words with men's...let alone thinkin it is wajib!!
to me dear all, that is a shirk that i will never submit to, inshahAllah.

Us and them will be responsible for our acts and for NOT THINKING RATIONALLY!

Now I AM NOT DENYING THE IMPORTANCE SUNNAH! ( i know i am shouting this out)

DO NOT try to mix two things here..
I beleive and this belief, by the way too comes from Quran itself ,that whatever Prophet (Mohammad(PBUH)
said and did was nothing BUT Quran!!
his life was nothing but delivering Allah's message and explaining it with his actions and words..so did what his campanians did.
BUT how can someone guarentee that every thing he did and said came absolutly unadultrated to us???

well i have read a lot about he authenticity of the ahadiths and all!!
but the point remains...

The fact of the matter is that the companians most dearest and closest to him never put an effort in recording his sayings but all efforts were made to preserve Quran and QURAN only!!

could there be a reason that while Quran was being compiled in form of a book efforts should have been made to compile all these UTHENTIC AHADITHS in form of a book too??

WHY Allah SWT only promised to preserve and save His book only????

WHAT was the NEED of SAVING The Quran Only??

and above WHAT was the purpose of Quran??

Did anyone even bother reading and thinking over it??

for those who quote ayats of Quran to follow and obey the prophet ..
well whose denying that??
but to follow blindly wiothout thinking that teh message is actually going against what Allah SWT tells us in Quran?

how can we even atribute these thing to prophet PBUH ..
which is actually undermining prophet's himself?
Just to prove we are more worth than any others and oNly who follows US is the one who'll be successfull and none other and go at the lenght of even changing the meaning of Quran just to prov your point!!

WELL who gave you this authority anyways not Allah SWt and then certainly NOT prophet PBUH!!

Are we not EXACTLY following our ansestors,
the prior ahle kitab making sections among our own Ummah each with a SAHIH Hadith backing them and completly deviating from the real message of Allah SWT

"Wae' tae' semoo behablillah e jameeun wala tafarraqoo"

What is this ALLAH'S ROPE but Quran??
l
How are we giving Allah SWT His HAQ???


"Say: "Bring forward your witnesses to prove that Allah did forbid so and so." If they bring such witnesses, be not thou amongst them: Nor follow thou the vain desires of such as treat our signs as falsehoods, and such as believe not in the Hereafter: for they hold others as equal with their Guardian-Lord. "
Surah AL-ANAAM verse 150

you think here Allah SWt meant to bring their dead ansesters who misguided them?

and yet again..

"Say: the things that my Lord hath indeed forbidden are: shameful deeds, whether open or secret; sins and trespasses against truth or reason; assigning of partners to Allah, for which He hath given no authority; and saying things about Allah of which ye have no knowledge. "
Surah AL-ARAF verse number 33

i'll come back agian inshahAllah!

jazakAllah khair!
Reply

Silver Pearl
10-31-2005, 10:03 PM
:w: Warahmatullahi wabarakatuh,

I’d like to firstly say that although you try and make logicality of the issue, you fail to understand the point I made above. Perhaps you didn’t read certain posts due to their logicality or what ever reason which is understandable.


i only seek guidance from Allah SWT... whom I submit to ...submit to please Him not the masses!
Good, and so do many.





So Quran is basically the only truth i know for sure..
Doubt does not always stay as being harmless.The shaytan is more deceiving than we presume.


Allah SWT's pure words with absolutely no adultration as Allah Himself promised to save it!!
but the meaning they try to change from time to time to serve their own purposes ..
mostly to prove the ahadiths they are so stubbornly attached to.


Alright perhaps you’re not consciously aware of the implication and the danger of making such statement. People who give out fatwa’s are not your usual brother from the street who lead a double life and wish to only pass ijtihad to make them ‘cool’. We are talking about well versed scholars. So please be wary of what you say. Verily Allah (swt) will hold us to what we have uttered and written which might be fabrication.

These scholars don’t just pass judgment because they had nothing to do. You have to study the deen in depth, and there is so much to do before you even consider passing your ijtihad. Even then you require substantial evidence from Qur’an or hadeeth to back it up.







compared to 1400 + years after the nazool of Quran only 500 + years before Prophet Mohammad( peace be upon him), Allah SWT gave hazarat Esa(PBUH) the prophacy and the BOOK, similar to Quran as Allah SWT says in Quran!!


Sorry but I fail to understand the point you’re trying to make, can you re-phrase it please?



Now I a pretty sure the common people of that time NEVER even thought in their DREAMS that THEIR SCHOLARS could change the words of ALLAH SWT himself from the Holly Book... just like today..

I’m sorry but your point has no valid substance to back it up. Are you accusing well versed scholars of manipulating and altering the meaning of the Qur’an to suit them? Astagfirullah. Perhaps I misunderstood your point.








they made things HARAM for them which ALLAH SWT never did.. making their lives more and more difficult just as Allah SWT said in Quran.
No, there is evidence to prove that music is haram; this does not make the ruling unlawful and contradictory to the teaching because there is evidence. In addition there is a hadeeth where the prophet (pbuh) says that if you’re unsure of something, refrain from it. So would it actually kill us if we listened to what the prophet (pbuh) said? Seriously I don’t think I’d die if I was banned from listening to Eminem or who ever. On the contrary I might use that time to read the Qur’an, get ajar and benefit from it.






NOTE here too Allah is Asking them to bring the BOOK HE revealed as their proof??
Can you refrain from using ayat from the Qur’an which is really irrelevant but is being used simply to emphasize on your ideology please? Barakallahu feek.



anyways the thing for my concern is whether they are going to be excused for something they were not even directly involved in...i mean at that time too the whole authority of DEEN was with the SCHOLARS only ..

so should they be punished for something they were not even part of?
they just beleived what they were told ...
Erm, I don’t understand what you mean.





I think i made my point.
I disagree; I fail to grasp your point. you think music is halal?



Now for people who say as bukhari being 100% truth ...
No one says that, certain hadeeth’s may not be 100% authentic….depending on what hadeeth we are talking about and who narrated it.




they are making comparing Allah's words with men's...let alone thinkin it is wajib!!
No brother, The prophet (pbuh) used to pray ethneyn (8)rakah for taraweeh and then witr. Nonetheless the prophet’s (pbuh) companion allowed in his time for people to 21/23 rakah’s. Does those mea we’re not following Allah (swt) command?

to me dear all, that is a shirk that i will never submit to, inshahAllah.

Also accusing fellow Muslims as mushreekeen is a very dangerous thing.

Us and them will be responsible for our acts and for NOT THINKING RATIONALLY!

Now I AM NOT DENYING THE IMPORTANCE SUNNAH! ( i know i am shouting this out)

DO NOT try to mix two things here..
I beleive and this belief, by the way too comes from Quran itself ,that whatever Prophet (Mohammad(PBUH)
said and did was nothing BUT Quran!!
his life was nothing but delivering Allah's message and explaining it with his actions and words..so did what his campanians did.
BUT how can someone guarentee that every thing he did and said came absolutly unadultrated to us???

well i have read a lot about he authenticity of the ahadiths and all!!
but the point remains...

The fact of the matter is that the companians most dearest and closest to him never put an effort in recording his sayings but all efforts were made to preserve Quran and QURAN only!!

could there be a reason that while Quran was being compiled in form of a book efforts should have been made to compile all these UTHENTIC AHADITHS in form of a book too??

WHY Allah SWT only promised to preserve and save His book only????

WHAT was the NEED of SAVING The Quran Only??

and above WHAT was the purpose of Quran??

Did anyone even bother reading and thinking over it??

for those who quote ayats of Quran to follow and obey the prophet ..
well whose denying that??
but to follow blindly wiothout thinking that teh message is actually going against what Allah SWT tells us in Quran?

how can we even atribute these thing to prophet PBUH ..
which is actually undermining prophet's himself?
Just to prove we are more worth than any others and oNly who follows US is the one who'll be successfull and none other and go at the lenght of even changing the meaning of Quran just to prov your point!!

WELL who gave you this authority anyways not Allah SWt and then certainly NOT prophet PBUH!!

Are we not EXACTLY following our ansestors,
the prior ahle kitab making sections among our own Ummah each with a SAHIH Hadith backing them and completly deviating from the real message of Allah SWT

"Wae' tae' semoo behablillah e jameeun wala tafarraqoo"

What is this ALLAH'S ROPE but Quran??
l
How are we giving Allah SWT His HAQ???


"Say: "Bring forward your witnesses to prove that Allah did forbid so and so." If they bring such witnesses, be not thou amongst them: Nor follow thou the vain desires of such as treat our signs as falsehoods, and such as believe not in the Hereafter: for they hold others as equal with their Guardian-Lord. "
Surah AL-ANAAM verse 150

you think here Allah SWt meant to bring their dead ansesters who misguided them?

and yet again..

"Say: the things that my Lord hath indeed forbidden are: shameful deeds, whether open or secret; sins and trespasses against truth or reason; assigning of partners to Allah, for which He hath given no authority; and saying things about Allah of which ye have no knowledge. "
Surah AL-ARAF verse number 33
To be honest I am not qualified to answer most of the questions you have asked. Having said that, I would just like to state that what do you lose from not listening to music?

Anyways, don’t confuse my direct approach to your post as a way of attacking you brother, nor was my aim in this post to make my words seem harsh and cold. It is the month of Ramadan and I hope if I have said anything that may have offended you that you’ll have it in your heart to forgive me. I’m not immune to sinning.

Oh my Lord protect us from the whispering shaytan, guard our hearts from corruptions and never let us stray from the straight path. The path of those you have bestowed favors upon. Make us neither amongst the strayed nor those who earned your anger. Don’t deprive us from your mercy ya rabb.
Reply

czgibson
10-31-2005, 11:06 PM
Greetings,

Originally Posted by salehah
compared to 1400 + years after the nazool of Quran only 500 + years before Prophet Mohammad( peace be upon him), Allah SWT gave hazarat Esa(PBUH) the prophacy and the BOOK, similar to Quran as Allah SWT says in Quran!!
Just to be clear, what book did Allah give to Esa?

Originally Posted by Silver Pearl
Having said that, I would just like to state that what do you lose from not listening to music?
I would say you'd lose many valuable aesthetic experiences by not listening to music, just like if you stopped watching films or reading works of literature - but that's just my view.

Peace
Reply

Safa
10-31-2005, 11:08 PM
Originally Posted by czgibson
Greetings,



Just to be clear, what book did Allah give to Esa?

Peace
Allah gave Esa (as) the Injeel or the Bible.
Reply

Safa
10-31-2005, 11:16 PM
Originally Posted by czgibson
Greetings,



I've seen several ahadith that make the impermissibility of musical instruments clear, but no verses from the Qur'an. Why do I see the above claim so often if there are in fact no verses from the Qur'an which forbid musical instruments?

Peace
It is required that Muslims follows the teachings of the Prophet (pbuh) (through the ahadith) because he is an example of how Muslims should interpret and follow the Quran. The Quran does not give specific details because it is a book of principles. That is why Muslims rely on the prophet's (pbuh) teachings and actions.

Peace
Reply

czgibson
10-31-2005, 11:18 PM
Greetings,
Originally Posted by desertroze
Allah gave Isa (as) the Injeel or the Bible.
Do you mean the Old Testament, or the revelations Esa is supposed to have had, which were not necessarily written down in his lifetime?

You obviously don't mean the Bible as we know it today, since all of the New Testament was written after Esa's death. The gospel of Mark is usually seen as being the earliest book of the N.T., having been written around 70 A.D., i.e. over 30 years after Esa's death.

Peace
Reply

eyes_of_mine
10-31-2005, 11:24 PM
meaning the gospel.

I am like I said, bowing out of this debate now I said my thoughts in it, and I accept that there is a difference of opinion in this subject, Salehah I agree with your point and understood what you meant.

Salam Alykum
Reply

Safa
10-31-2005, 11:28 PM
Originally Posted by czgibson
Greetings,


Do you mean the Old Testament, or the revelations Esa is supposed to have had, which were not necessarily written down in his lifetime?

You obviously don't mean the Bible as we know it today, since all of the New Testament was written after Esa's death. The gospel of Mark is usually seen as being the earliest book of the N.T., having been written around 70 A.D., i.e. over 30 years after Esa's death.

Peace
True, my mistake, I meant the Gospel.
Reply

czgibson
10-31-2005, 11:49 PM
Greetings,
Originally Posted by desertroze
True, my mistake, I meant the Gospel.
I think we may be misunderstanding each other here.

The gospels (Matthew, Mark, Luke and John) were written (by humans) after the death of Esa, so I don't see how Allah could have given them to him.

Do you use the word "Gospel" to mean the revelations Esa is supposed to have received from Allah?

I realise we have drifted off-topic here, so to bring it back:

I understand that the ahadith can be used for guidance, but I have seen the claim made that the Qur'an forbids musical instruments; however I have not seen any verses from the Qur'an that explicitly state this.

Peace
Reply

Ansar Al-'Adl
11-01-2005, 12:20 AM
Greetings,
Originally Posted by czgibson
Greetings,

The gospels (Matthew, Mark, Luke and John) were written (by humans) after the death of Esa, so I don't see how Allah could have given them to him.

Do you use the word "Gospel" to mean the revelations Esa is supposed to have received from Allah?
“And Jesus went about all the cities and villages, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the GOSPEL of the kingdom...” (Matthew 9:35)

That is what is being referred to here. The Injeel revealed to Prophet Jesus (as) was not necessarily a written revelation, but it was certainly what he was preaching. More info here:
Gospel of Jesus

As for the topic of this thread, I'm not going to repeat what I've already said, so I'm just going to provide the links to where I've elaborated on the issue in previous discussions, but first, here is the book that discusses the evidences on the subject in detail:
http://members.tripod.com/oum_abdulaziz/music1.html

Discussion on the rationale behind Islam's stance on Music
Ansar Al-'Adl, czgibson, Ansar Al-'Adl, czgibson, Ansar Al-'Adl, czgibson, Ansar Al-'Adl [Explains the consensus on the issue amongst Muslims], czgibson.

Discussion on music as an important aspect of culture
Ansar Al-'Adl, czgibson, Ansar Al-'Adl, czgibson, Ansar Al-'Adl, czgibson, Ansar Al-'Adl, czgibson, Ansar Al-'Adl, czgibson, Muezzin, czgibson, Muezzin.

I hope this helps.
Regards
Reply

Safa
11-01-2005, 12:55 AM
Originally Posted by czgibson
Greetings,


I think we may be misunderstanding each other here.

The gospels (Matthew, Mark, Luke and John) were written (by humans) after the death of Esa, so I don't see how Allah could have given them to him.

Do you use the word "Gospel" to mean the revelations Esa is supposed to have received from Allah?

Peace
I'm sorry I confused you, I should have clarified.The book (Injeel) of Prophet Esa (pbuh) is supposed to have the exact revelations he received from Allah. I'm not sure if the gospels have his exact words from Allah in them.
The links brother Ansar provided should be helpful.


Peace.
Reply

salehah
11-01-2005, 08:34 AM
Salam everyone!!

thank you for you kind note "eyes of mine"!
hope many read my post and the answers or refutal by sis silver pearl that will even clarify my points more inshahAllah! :)

It's amazing how people just refuse to understand simple things...
but then i know this big thing thats the hinderance ..

it's only Allah SWT who guides those who seek guidance.
I have no more to say on this topic but if anyone is interested in knowing about the rulings regarding music within itself is not haram, i can give the links..
but still .. again that will be just another verdict from some more Ulemas.

I just pray Allah guide us all to see the real truth .. and still stand by my point of veiw ..:statisfie

The truth DOES NOT have CONTRADICTION!!

jazakAllahulkhair!

P.S.
personally for now I am happy n thankful to Allah the great that i am still on this forum .. :smile:
Reply

ABWAN
11-01-2005, 01:00 PM
Originally Posted by salehah
The truth DOES NOT have CONTRADICTION!!
Interesting that an Ahmadi I had talked to once insisted on the same as well...'truth' is quite subjective and I don't understand how one who had *seen the truth* always claim they are not brainwashed but everyone else is!!!

Saehah, why dont you share the links you have got?
Reply

Vedad
11-01-2005, 03:28 PM
Explanation from Sheikh Ibn Baz

Shaykh Ibn Baz (may Allah have mercy on him) said in Majmoo' al-Fataawa, 3/423-424:

"Ma'aazif refers to singing and musical instruments. The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) told us that at the end of time there will come a people who will allow these things just as they will allow alcohol, zina and silk. This is one of the signs of his Prophethood, for all of this has happened. The hadeeth indicates that [musical instruments] are haram (prohibited)and condemns those who say they are halal (permissible), just as it condemns those who say that alcohol and zina are allowed., The aayaat and ahaadeeth that warn against singing and musical instruments are many indeed. Whoever claims that Allaah has allowed singing and musical instruments is lying and is committing a great evil. We ask Allaah to keep us from obeying our desires and the Shaytaan. Even worse and more seriously sinful than that are those who say it is mustahabb. Undoubtedly this stems from ignorance about Allaah and His Religion; it is insolent blasphemy against Allaah and lying about His Laws.

www.muttaqun.com/music.html
Reply

Ameeratul Layl
11-01-2005, 03:30 PM
Originally Posted by Vedad
Explanation from Sheikh Ibn Baz

Shaykh Ibn Baz (may Allah have mercy on him) said in Majmoo' al-Fataawa, 3/423-424:

"Ma'aazif refers to singing and musical instruments. The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) told us that at the end of time there will come a people who will allow these things just as they will allow alcohol, zina and silk. This is one of the signs of his Prophethood, for all of this has happened. The hadeeth indicates that [musical instruments] are haram (prohibited)and condemns those who say they are halal (permissible), just as it condemns those who say that alcohol and zina are allowed., The aayaat and ahaadeeth that warn against singing and musical instruments are many indeed. Whoever claims that Allaah has allowed singing and musical instruments is lying and is committing a great evil. We ask Allaah to keep us from obeying our desires and the Shaytaan. Even worse and more seriously sinful than that are those who say it is mustahabb. Undoubtedly this stems from ignorance about Allaah and His Religion; it is insolent blasphemy against Allaah and lying about His Laws.

www.muttaqun.com/music.html
:sl:
JzakAllah brother
Reply

Vedad
11-01-2005, 05:12 PM
Originally Posted by Ameeratul Layl
:sl:
JzakAllah brother
:w:
wa iyaki!
Reply

salehah
11-02-2005, 07:04 AM
salam all!

bro Abwan! Truth is something subjective! !:hmm:
well in that case you give answer to your own question that you asked :)

Thanks for pointing out about an Ahmadi.. so brother that's exactly my point was!
thats because to them ALSO the hadith is the ultimate truth and no one can deny them on that!! specially the ahle sunnah section!
and once more another section called Shi'te... they have most authentic ahadith to back their claims.
Interstingly I think not many people know that while refuting Shi'tes sec.. most opposing sections end up saying,
PROVE YOUR POINT IN LIGHT OF QURAN ONLY!!
All the divisions and innovations created in Islam have solid Authentic Ahadith to cover them..

for the site .. here's one to digest!
So far i found it to be the most comprehensive in explaining islam in light of Quran and sunnah, of all !

www.understanding-islam.com


jazakAllah!
Reply

ABWAN
11-02-2005, 07:39 AM
Originally Posted by salehah
salam all!

bro Abwan! Truth is something subjective! !:hmm:
well in that case you give answer to your own question that you asked :)

Thanks for pointing out about an Ahmadi.. so brother that's exactly my point was!
thats because to them ALSO the hadith is the ultimate truth and no one can deny them on that!! specially the ahle sunnah section!
and once more another section called Shi'te... they have most authentic ahadith to back their claims.
Interstingly I think not many people know that while refuting Shi'tes sec.. most opposing sections end up saying,
PROVE YOUR POINT IN LIGHT OF QURAN ONLY!!
All the divisions and innovations created in Islam have solid Authentic Ahadith to cover them..

for the site .. here's one to digest!
So far i found it to be the most comprehensive in explaining islam in light of Quran and sunnah, of all !

www.understanding-islam.com


jazakAllah!
Having had a chance to discuss with an Ahmadi for a while, I realized that the *truth* for them is the works of Gulam Ahmed Mirza...

In fact the irony is that..its the Ahmadis who give utmost importance to the Quran and least importance to the hadeeths..of course they believe in hadiths...but for them..everything is in the Quran..that is one reason why they believe Isa(as) is dead and that Gulam Ahmed is their final prophet..had they even bothered to look at the hadiths like the scholars and ulema did for the past 1000+ years, they would have realized how clear the hadiths are about Isa(as) and the finality of prophethood with Muhammed(SAW)..


Truth is something subjective! !:hmm:
well in that case you give answer to your own question that you asked :)
I'm sorry..you lost me there with this ^^ and the rest of your post

I just asked you to provide the links that you found were informative about all hadiths being false (if that's what you meant in your earlier post..if not, you need to please explain your position a little better)
Reply

salehah
11-02-2005, 08:09 AM
Ohhh dear brother!
when did say ALL ahadith are false??
perhaps you didn't read previous posts, why i started saying what i did?
for people who regard all SAHI ahadith equivalant to Quran..
for me a hadith, as it is narrated by humans, have the possiblity to be wrong... especially if it is going against the teaching of Quran itself !! that's IT!

and no dear Ahmadis Don't go by QURAN only!
i know that for sure cause i had friend who was ahmadi and we used to have long discusions .. i needed proof from Quran alone to justify what they beleived in and they simply can't!!
They had to produce ahadith THAT SUPPORTED THEIR CLAIMS!!
and they have interprated Quran on the basis of these ahadiths only!!!

as for YOUR statement that truth is subjective!

subjective is ..something that is based on or influenced by personal opinions!!!
so what can i say! it's your interpertation of truth which only confirms my point WHY many people beleive in what they beleive in!
well in reality to me the truth is still which is absolute not influenced by personal opinions and effect of time!

hope i cleared your mind..

wasalaam
Reply

ABWAN
11-02-2005, 08:43 AM
Originally Posted by salehah
Ohhh dear brother!
when did say ALL ahadith are false??
perhaps you didn't read previous posts, why i started saying what i did?
for people who regard all SAHI ahadith equivalant to Quran..
for me a hadith, as it is narrated by humans, have the possiblity to be wrong... especially if it is going against the teaching of Quran itself !! that's IT!

and no dear Ahmadis Don't go by QURAN only!
i know that for sure cause i had friend who was ahmadi and we used to have long discusions .. i needed proof from Quran alone to justify what they beleived in and they simply can't!!
They had to produce ahadith THAT SUPPORTED THEIR CLAIMS!!
and they have interprated Quran on the basis of these ahadiths only!!!

as for YOUR statement that truth is subjective!

subjective is ..something that is based on or influenced by personal opinions!!!
so what can i say! it's your interpertation of truth which only confirms my point WHY many people beleive in what they beleive in!
well in reality to me the truth is still which is absolute not influenced by personal opinions and effect of time!

hope i cleared your mind..

wasalaam
Ok..thanks for explaining...now coming back to the topic which is music...when you said some hadiths could be wrong owing to human errors..did you mean Quran approves listening to music and humans made it haram through false transmission of hadiths?

As far as Ahmadis are concerned... I have already mentioned in my previous post...4:157 is what they refer to all the time and they have their own *evidence* or whatever to prove it..I have had my own share of experience with Ahmadis..So I know a little as well!

Again as I said earlier...*well in reality to me the truth is still which is absolute not influenced by personal opinions and effect of time!* is more or less what that Ahmadi told me and I am sure this is what a christian/shia/jew/polytheist/atheist would say anytime... people believe in something just because they think it is the *truth* No one would ever believe in something knowing it is false!!! you could call it brainwashing or whatever..but the fact remains... talk to a christian and he would claim you are brainwashed..so all this talk about truth, brainwash etc merely holds some face value and nothing else...so I would say its better to avoid such things while posting messages..
Reply

Muezzin
11-02-2005, 09:18 AM
Just to settle this little debate (or failing that, to add to it :p)

Truth is subjective. Fact is objective.

It is a fact that people are being killed on both sides in Israel and Palestine. For Muslims, the 'truth' is that Israelis are at fault. For Israelis, the 'truth' is Palestinians are at fault.

I don't want to turn this into a thread about that conflict, I'm just using it as an example.

As for Hadiths, we should follow the authentic ones and ignore the weak ones, right?
Reply

Vedad
11-02-2005, 10:32 AM
Assalamu Aleykum wa rahmatAllah wa barakatuhu!
Those who say that Imam Bukhari ain't trustworthy is very very very wrong.. hes hadiths are trustworthy!! he was born about 200 years after hijra.

u can read this:
http://www.islamonline.com/cgi-bin/n...service_id=838
this aint all

His Early Years

Imam al-muhaddithin Hadrat Imam Abu `Abdullah Muhammad ibn Ismail al-Bukhari was born on the 13th of the Islamic month of Shawwal, 194AH, in the famous city of Bukhara, of the land "beyond the canal" - present day Uzbekistan -. The father of Imam Bukhari, Isma`il ibn Ibrahim ibn Mughirah al-Ja`fi, was a great muhaddith and ascetic from whom he inherited his characteristics of literary zeal and excellence. During his childhood his father died and his mother took on the entire responsibility of bringing him up. Imam Bukhari became blind at a young age. He had recourse to many famous and skilled doctors of his time but their treatments made no difference. His mother was a pious worshipper and a righteous woman. She cried out for help in the court of Allah the Almighty, for her child and begged for the restoration of his eyesight. At last, "the river of mercy flowed over her," and Almighty Allah accepted her invocation. One night, she visited Ibrahim `alayhis-salim in a dream and was told, "Allah has restored the sight of your son because of your intense and beautiful invocations." In the morning, as Imam Bukhari got up from his bed, glimmers of light reached out into his eyes.

His Extraordinary Intellect

Along with his extraordinary memory, he also had an outstanding fascinating intellect. He did not depend on pen and paper as much as he relied on his sharp memory. People examined the extraordinary capabilities of Imam Bukhari in the science of Hadith repeatedly but he always remained successful as a result of Allah's gift of intelligence and superb memory.

Hafiz Ahmad ibn `Adi said about Imam Bukhari: "When the people of Baghdad had learnt that Imam Bukhari was due to arrive there, the Muhaddithin of Baghdad decided to test him by changing the text and chains of transmission of one hundred Ahadith. They joined the chain of one Hadith with the text of another and attached the chain of this Hadith with the text of the prior. Like this, they mixed up the text and chains of transmission of one hundred Ahadith and gave these to people who would test Imam Bukhari with these. "When Imam Bukhari arrived at Baghdad, the people held a gathering in his honour, in which most of the scholars, nobles and public were present. One person stood up according to the plan and asked a question regarding a Hadith with its altered chain of transmission. Upon this, a second person stood up and recited in similar manner. Like this, the people completed the hundred Ahadith and awaited Imam Bukhari's reply. He said that he had not apprehended those Ahadith. When he saw that everyone had asked the questions he need, he stood up and started describing the chain of transmission of the first Hadith that was read and then gave its correct chain. Like this, he traced the faulty chains on the Ahadith of all one hundred set up by the scholars. He had given the correct chains of transmission to every Hadith. When he finished, the entire audience was full of praise and recognition of the superiority and greatness of Imam Bukhari."

:w: wa rahmatullah wa barakatuhu!
Reply

Ameeratul Layl
11-02-2005, 05:11 PM
:sl:

Music is haraam....music is haraam....there is nothing more to add....music is haraam.

Allah ma3akum
Reply

Taalib-e-'Ilm
11-02-2005, 05:20 PM
salam, fair enough the word music is nowhere daclared haraam in the quraan or hadith if this is ur argument, BUT BUT BUT there is a hadith in which the prophet mentions the fitnah of dajjal, he will come with 2 things to attract ppl, the fitnah of nisaa~~and the fitnah of music! hw will we survive his fitnah if we practise his fitnah during our daily life? does this make sense to u? let me know
Reply

Ameeratul Layl
11-02-2005, 05:23 PM
Originally Posted by Taalib-e-'Ilm
salam, fair enough the word music is nowhere daclared haraam in the quraan or hadith if this is ur argument, BUT BUT BUT there is a hadith in which the prophet mentions the fitnah of dajjal, he will come with 2 things to attract ppl, the fitnah of nisaa~~and the fitnah of music! hw will we survive his fitnah if we practise his fitnah during our daily life? does this make sense to u? let me know

:w:
Alot of sence brother......it really does.
So like I sed b4....music is haram.....
Reply

Taalib-e-'Ilm
11-03-2005, 02:30 AM
salam,
Forum rule:
12.This is not a Fiqh discussion board. Prolonged threads arguing over Fatwas and the details of Islamic law will be closed. Avoid asking questions that require a Scholar or Shaykh, as there is no one on the board qualified to answer your questions. Please use other knowledgeable means such as a scholar, Imam or knowledgeable person in your area or provide sources.

THIS THREAD SHOULD BE CLOSED, MY APPEAL!!!
Reply

Ansar Al-'Adl
11-03-2005, 03:37 AM
:sl:
I agree with Br. Taalib-e-'Ilm. As mentioned in the forum rules, this forum is not for prolonged fiqh discussions. Music is a controversial topic within Islam and there are differences of opinion amongst Muslims that I wouldn't expect to disappear. Everyone has to follow what they believe is most in accordance with the Qur'an and Sunnah, as understood by the early pious generation of Muslims. We do not simply follow what is in accordance with our desires.

Before I close this thread, I would like to re-iterate what I have said previously about the consensus of Muslim scholars on this issue. Scholars would agree that profane music or music that incites one to do evil (as is most prominent in the western music industry) or music that promotes immorality - all these are haraam. Scholars would also agree that simple vocal songs (nasheeds) calling one to Allah swt or reminding one of the truth, that these are permissable. Between these two categories there is a large grey area. So let every individual focus on what will benefit them in the afterlife.

For more information:
http://www.islamicboard.com/showpost...&postcount=194
Thread closed.
:w:


:threadclo
Reply

Ghazi
12-21-2005, 10:21 PM
:sl:

One of the biggest problems the youth have today is music, a sin which we tend to overlook as nothing sometimes renamed nasheeds, Far as I know nasheeds are allowed as long as they have no Instruments we need to be aware of this issues stated below.
Sahih Bukhari, No. 5226.
Abu'Amir or Abu Malik Al-Ash'ari: he heard the Prophet (SallAllahu alayhi wa Sallam) saying: From among my followers there will be some people who will consider illegal sexual intercouse, the wearing of silk, the drinking, of alcohlic drinks and the use of musical instruments, as lawful.
Reply

Tasneem
12-21-2005, 10:37 PM
Yeah,
Alot of muslims listen to music
Especially teens
I just make dua they come into the know like me and my family a couple of years back

SaLaMz
Reply

ishkabab
12-21-2005, 10:59 PM
Originally Posted by islam-truth
:sl:
One of the biggest problems the youth have today is music, a sin which we tend to overlook as nothing sometimes renamed nasheeds, Far as I know nasheeds are allowed as long as they have no Instruments we need to be aware of this issues stated below.
Assalamu Alaikum
i hate the fact of the nasheeds naats n nazmays these days all have excessive drum beats and other instruments which is not allowed!!!! and sooo many people think its ok:confused: like on this forum on the post 'Nasheed going 4 free"
Reply

Ghazi
12-21-2005, 11:02 PM
Originally Posted by ishkabab
Assalamu Alaikum
i hate the fact of the nasheeds naats n nazmays these days all have excessive drum beats and other instruments which is not allowed!!!! and sooo many people think its ok:confused: like on this forum on the post 'Nasheed going 4 free"

:sl:

Well stated sis, some nasheeds seem to be a replacment for the mainstream music but in the guise of islam, only by exposing this problem can we move forward.
Reply

Rabbiyah
12-31-2005, 01:46 AM
SAlams everyone
I would like to know how to refrain from music myself latly I havn't listen to any but for some reason I'll be drawn back to it again which i know is not good this is a sin please make duaa for me and my family
jazakula
Reply

*charisma*
12-31-2005, 02:01 AM
Assalamu Alaikum

SAlams everyone
I would like to know how to refrain from music myself latly I havn't listen to any but for some reason I'll be drawn back to it again which i know is not good this is a sin please make duaa for me and my family
jazakula
i put on a recitation of surat yasin by sheikh sudais to help me memorize it better inshallah, and it has helped a lot subhanallah.. i can really get into it.

Try to put on some quran or do something else when u feel like u want to listen to music, also what helps is make dua..like say la hawla wala quwata illa bila *there is no power or strength than that of Allah's* keep urself in reminder that there are a lot of worldly pleasures, but we are not here to attain in them. and one of the punishments is having melted steel poured down our ears.. something like that, ill look up the hadith inshallah.

002.024 But if ye cannot- and of a surety ye cannot- then fear the Fire whose fuel is men and stones,- which is prepared for those who reject Faith.


fi aman Allah
w'salaam
Reply

haya
01-04-2006, 04:17 PM
salam i need help aswell cause sometimes i listen to music and sometimes i dont does any body have any tips to make me stop listening to music

jazakuallah
Reply

- Qatada -
01-04-2006, 04:33 PM
:wasalamex


Try listening to the qur'an as a pass time instead of music.

masha Allaah, a really good recitor is sa'ad al ghamdi - you can get his recitations off:

http://quran.jalisi.com


you can see the arabic text, plus translation off this link insha Allaah:

http://www.muslimaccess.com/quraan/arabic/

or this: http://www.ummah.net/what-is-islam/quran/neindex.htm


:salamext:
Reply

*LJ*
01-04-2006, 04:43 PM
Salam,
I'm very confused. I thought that music was an issue that was undecided and that some people think it is ok and some don't. :? Or that certain types of music were ok and others weren't? Or that some instruments were ok and some weren't? But i thought that as a whole, people did not agree on this.
Can anyone tell me some more about this, and tell me of some surahs which mention this?

Thanx
Reply

- Qatada -
01-04-2006, 05:04 PM
Originally Posted by *LJ*
Salam,
I'm very confused. I thought that music was an issue that was undecided and that some people think it is ok and some don't. :? Or that certain types of music were ok and others weren't? Or that some instruments were ok and some weren't? But i thought that as a whole, people did not agree on this.
Can anyone tell me some more about this, and tell me of some surahs which mention this?

Thanx

:wasalamex


try chekin this post out insha Allaah. it is a controversial subject..

http://www.islamicboard.com/104487-post210.html


:salamext:
Reply

R_U
01-04-2006, 05:09 PM
Originally Posted by *LJ*
Salam,
I'm very confused. I thought that music was an issue that was undecided and that some people think it is ok and some don't. :? Or that certain types of music were ok and others weren't? Or that some instruments were ok and some weren't? But i thought that as a whole, people did not agree on this.
Can anyone tell me some more about this, and tell me of some surahs which mention this?

Thanx
:sl:
I've also heard that percussion is allowed, however not seen any concrete evidence for this..And as they say IF IN DOUBT LEAVE IT OUT!! :?
I also think that the Nasheeds these days are far too musical and the best thing to help you stop listening to music is substituting your old CDs with Quraan recitation ones..Not only do you benefit by improving your own pronounciation/recitation you also receive reward (Inshaa'Allah)...

:w: :sister:
Reply

- Qatada -
01-04-2006, 05:13 PM
:salamext:


Sahih Bukhari, No. 5226. (authentic)

Abu'Amir or Abu Malik Al-Ash'ari: he heard the Prophet (SallAllahu alayhi wa Sallam) saying: From among my followers there will be some people who will consider illegal sexual intercouse, the wearing of silk, the drinking, of alcoholic drinks and the use of musical instruments, as lawful.


wa Allaahu a'lam. (and Allaah Almighty knows best.)


:wasalamex
Reply

Takumi
01-04-2006, 06:00 PM
Originally Posted by islam-truth
:sl:

One of the biggest problems the youth have today is music, a sin which we tend to overlook as nothing sometimes renamed nasheeds, Far as I know nasheeds are allowed as long as they have no Instruments we need to be aware of this issues stated below.

Thank you for clarifying YOUR position on music. May I suggest you research further?
Reply

Muhammad
01-04-2006, 06:06 PM
:sl:

We have a number of threads on music, discussing its permissibility and other things... perhaps you might find it useful to check them out Insha'Allaah:

Music is Haraam

Nasheed's: please help me rid myself of kafr music!

sami yusufs music haram or halal?

Music and Singing - A Detailed Article (Parts 1+2)

Evil of Music

:w:
Reply

sumay28
01-04-2006, 06:12 PM
I a bit confused as far as halal instruments go. I know the daff is halal. What about other percussion instruments?
Reply

Rabbiyah
01-05-2006, 01:28 AM
Originally Posted by *charisma*
Assalamu Alaikum



i put on a recitation of surat yasin by sheikh sudais to help me memorize it better inshallah, and it has helped a lot subhanallah.. i can really get into it.

Try to put on some quran or do something else when u feel like u want to listen to music, also what helps is make dua..like say la hawla wala quwata illa bila *there is no power or strength than that of Allah's* keep urself in reminder that there are a lot of worldly pleasures, but we are not here to attain in them. and one of the punishments is having melted steel poured down our ears.. something like that, ill look up the hadith inshallah.

002.024 But if ye cannot- and of a surety ye cannot- then fear the Fire whose fuel is men and stones,- which is prepared for those who reject Faith.


fi aman Allah
w'salaam
Salam alaikum Sister
Shuqan for that quote please let me know where you found that so I can remind myself and share with someone else that is having a hard time letting go "music" For what u have written is I imagine is very scary to face when the day comes
Again shuqan for sharing Insha Allah I or maybe u can help me find the dilil
:wasalamex
Reply

Rabbiyah
01-05-2006, 01:31 AM
Originally Posted by haya
salam i need help aswell cause sometimes i listen to music and sometimes i dont does any body have any tips to make me stop listening to music

jazakuallah
:sl: :sister:
read what the sister wrote above your quote that just may help both of us Quote #6
:w:
Reply

mehnaz
01-05-2006, 08:42 AM
Salaam,

MashaAllah some very beneficial posts here...

JazakAllah khair broz and sis's

W'salaam
Reply

Hemoo
01-11-2006, 01:05 AM
:sl:


First brothers and sisters of Islam we all should know that Allah can do what ever he would like to do , Allah can make something allowed and then he can make it forbidden and all we have to do is to obey cause Allah is testing us and we cant say to Allah why? .


And I want to tell you that there is some things that was allowed in Islam at first but then it has been prohibited and there was also things that was allowed to another former prophets and then it has been prohibited in Islam.


As an example for the first case is that the prophet (p.b.u.h) said "I have prohibited you before from visiting the Graves (tombs) but the permission has been given to Muhammad for visiting his mother's grave so you can all visit the Graves because they remind you with the hereafter (or Death)"


As an example for the second case is that in the time of prophet "Solomon" (P.b.u.h) it was allowed to make sculptures and pictures but in time of our prophet (P.b.u.h) he said that the sculptures and pictures are not allowed to us.

And the evidence is in the Qur`an in surat SABA is :- (those are three different translations)

034.012
YUSUFALI: And to Solomon (We made) the Wind (obedient): Its early morning (stride) was a month's (journey), and its evening (stride) was a month's (journey); and We made a Font of molten brass to flow for him; and there were Jinns that worked in front of him, by the leave of his Lord, and if any of them turned aside from our command, We made him taste of the Penalty of the Blazing Fire.
PICKTHAL: And unto Solomon (We gave) the wind, whereof the morning course was a month's journey and the evening course a month's journey, and We caused the fount of copper to gush forth for him, and (We gave him) certain of the jinn who worked before him by permission of his Lord. And such of them as deviated from Our command, them We caused to taste the punishment of flaming Fire.
SHAKIR: And (We made) the wind (subservient) to Sulaiman, which made a month's journey in the morning and a month's journey m the evening, and We made a fountain of molten copper to flow out for him, and of the jinn there were those who worked before him by the command of his Lord; and whoever turned aside from Our command from among them, We made him taste of the punishment of burning.

034.013
YUSUFALI: They worked for him as he desired, (making) arches, images, basons as large as reservoirs, and (cooking) cauldrons fixed (in their places): "Work ye, sons of David, with thanks! but few of My servants are grateful!"
PICKTHAL: They made for him what he willed: synagogues and statues, basins like wells and boilers built into the ground. Give thanks, O House of David! Few of My bondmen are thankful.
SHAKIR: They made for him what he pleased of fortresses and images, and bowls (large) as watering-troughs and cooking-pots that will not move from their place; give thanks, O family of Dawood! and very few of My servants are grateful.


but in our laws the statues are forbidden for this hadeeths in sahih Muslim in book no. 24 of Clothes And Decoration



Book 024, Hadith Number 5249.

------------------------------

Chapter : Angels do not enter a house in which there is a dog or a picture.



Abu Talha reported Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) having said: Angels do not enter a house in which there is a dog or a picture.





Book 024, Hadith Number 5250.

------------------------------

Chapter : Angels do not enter a house in which there is a dog or a picture.



Abu Talha reported: I heard Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: Angels do not enter the house in which there is a dog or a statue.


So lets see what are the laws of Islam saying about the musical instruments …..



008.020
YUSUFALI: O ye who believe! Obey Allah and His Messenger, and turn not away from him when ye hear (him speak).



And

003.031
PICKTHAL: Say, (O Muhammad, to mankind): If ye love Allah, follow me; Allah will love you and forgive you your sins. Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.
003.032
PICKTHAL: Say: Obey Allah and the messenger. But if they turn away, lo! Allah loveth not the disbelievers (in His guidance).
So here is what the prophets(p.b.u.h) said …..



in the book of sahih bukhary there is this hadeeth:-



Volume 007, Book 069, Hadith Number 494B.

------------------------------------------

Narrated By Abu 'Amir or Abu Malik Al-Ash'ari : That he heard the Prophet saying, "From among my followers there will be some people who will consider illegal sexual intercourse, the wearing of silk, the drinking of alcoholic drinks and the use of musical instruments, as lawful. And there will be some people who will stay near the side of a mountain and in the evening their shepherd will come to them with their sheep and ask them for something, but they will say to him, 'Return to us tomorrow.' Allah will destroy them during the night and will let the mountain fall on them, and He will transform the rest of them into monkeys and pigs and they will remain so till the Day of Resurrection."

And in sahih muslim :-



Book 024, Hadith Number 5279.

------------------------------

Chapter: Disapproval of setting out on a journey along with a dog and bells.



Abu Huraira reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: The bell is the musical instrument of the Satan.




In a book named "alzwager 3an ektraf alkaba`er" its by ibn hagar alhaytamy and he is in mazhab of imam shaafi3i he mentioned 6 serious misdeed which are :-



From the kabaaer (serious misdeed) to play a mezmaar (pipe or flute) or listen to it and to play a qoba (drum) and listen to it and also play a watar (string or chord ) and listen to it.



and there is another hadeeth that i will try to translate as good as i can that says "there will be in this nation khasf (means collapse or falling down inside the ground or cleave the earth under them) and qazf (means striking or throw something on) and maskh (means transformation or metamorphose) and all of this thing will appear if they are drinking of alcoholic drinks and had women singing and played on the musical instruments."

and this hadeeth is in the book of the truthful hadeeth by shiekh naser aldeen alalbany (rahimahu allah)





And Abo bakr alsedeeq (rady allah anho) said "the singing and instruments playing is the musical instrument of the Satan"



And there is so many companions which whom have said things like that.



And in Abu Dawud.

Book 36. General Behavior.

This story about ibn umar but i don't know if it's true or not.



Book 036, Hadith Number 4906.

------------------------------

Chapter: Not known.



Narrated By Abdullah ibn Umar : Nafi' said: Ibn Umar heard a pipe, put his fingers in his ears and went away from the road. He said to me: Are you hearing anything? I said: No. He said: He then took his fingers out of his ears and said: I was with the Prophet (pbuh), and he heard like this and he did like this. AbuAli al-Lu'lu said: I heard AbuDawud say: This is a rejected tradition.


And the four well-known imams of the four mazhab ( ahmed ibn hanbal , malek ibn anas , mohamed idrees alshaafe`y and abo haneefa) they all said that the singing and music are haram (forbidden) and so had said ebn taymia and imam alshawkany and ibn alqayem and many others.



And from the contemporary schoolars who says that the music is haram the following:-

shiekh ibn baz and ibn oathaymeen and abd allah ebn gabreen and alshiekh alalbany and mohamed saleh almounaged and mohamed alareefy and `aed alkarany and abo issac alheweny and many others.



After all of those hadeeth we all as Muslims should obey Allah our creator and our lord and stop listening to music and we should be annoyed at least in our hearts when we hear them.



And there is another hadeeth in bukhary in book no. 15 called "The Two Festivals (Eids)"

Those hadeeth give us exception case and it’s the only allowed case by the Islamic law.



Volume 002, Book 015, Hadith Number 070.

-----------------------------------------

Narrated By 'Aisha : Allah's Apostle (p.b.u.h) came to my house while two girls were singing beside me the songs of Buath (a story about the war between the two tribes of the Ansar, the Khazraj and the Aus, before Islam). The Prophet (p.b.u.h) lay down and turned his face to the other side. Then Abu Bakr came and spoke to me harshly saying, "Musical instruments of Satan near the Prophet (p.b.u.h) ?" Allah's Apostle (p.b.u.h) turned his face towards him and said, "Leave them." When Abu Bakr became inattentive, I signalled to those girls to go out and they left. It was the day of 'Id, and the Black people were playing with shields and spears; so either I requested the Prophet (p.b.u.h) or he asked me whether I would like to see the display. I replied in the affirmative. Then the Prophet (p.b.u.h) made me stand behind him and my cheek was touching his cheek and he was saying, "Carry on! O Bani Arfida," till I got tired. The Prophet (p.b.u.h) asked me, "Are you satisfied (Is that sufficient for you)?" I replied in the affirmative and he told me to leave.


And



Volume 002, Book 015, Hadith Number 072.

-----------------------------------------

Narated By 'Aisha : Abu Bakr came to my house while two small Ansari girls were singing beside me the stories of the Ansar concerning the Day of Buath. And they were not singers. Abu Bakr said protestingly, "Musical instruments of Satan in the house of Allah's Apostle !" It happened on the 'Id day and Allah's Apostle said, "O Abu Bakr! There is an 'Id for every nation and this is our 'Id."



And



Volumn 002, Book 015, Hadith Number 103.

-----------------------------------------

Narated By 'Urwa : On the authority of 'Aisha. On the days of Mina, (11th, 12th, and 13th of Dhul-Hijjah) Abu Bakr came to her while two young girls were beating the tambourine and the Prophet was lying covered with his clothes. Abu Bakr scolded them and the Prophet uncovered his face and said to Abu Bakr, "Leave them, for these days are the days of 'Id and the days of Mina." 'Aisha further said, "Once the Prophet was screening me and I was watching the display of black slaves in the Mosque and ('Umar) scolded them. The Prophet said, 'Leave them. O Bani Arfida! (carry on), you are safe (protected)'."




After you have read the above hadeeths you will see that Abu Bakr has protested on what he saw and heard and that is because he knows earlier that the music is forbidden but the prophet has said to him to leave them and indicated the reason which are because it’s a festival day .



So there is only one exceptional case which we can use musical instrument and there are some conditions which are :-

1-only in the times of marriage and Muslims festivals .

2-the musical instrument that can be used is called Dhuff (its like the tambourine) .

3-this instrument is only allowed to be used by women only and not for men.



There is another important thing which is :-

* Its not right to have men with women in the time of festivals in what is called by mingling so we must avoid that as much as we can.



* what I also know and heard from many Islamic scholars is that the men mustn't listen to any musical instruments in any case.





And finally I hope all the Muslims do what pleases Allah , Ameen

and this is a little effort that i have made and i ask allah that i am sincere and i ask my brothers and sisters to correct any information in this article if you find any .
:w:
Reply

Tasneem
01-11-2006, 01:08 AM
Yes this was a good article MashAllah

I was just telling a sister about music being harram

Inshallah im going to give her this article

SaLaMz
Reply

Salema
01-11-2006, 01:30 AM
wow..bro thnxs 4 shring..
Reply

Takumi
01-11-2006, 05:47 AM
Thank you for sharing your views on music.

Please allow others to practice theirs, which is music in not haraam.
Reply

Muhammad
01-12-2006, 11:08 PM
:sl:

Threads merged.

Please look back to posts #10 and #14, which link to previous discussions on the topic and conclusions drawn from them, Insha'Allaah.

:w:
Reply

aZn_pLayGurL
01-13-2006, 02:21 PM
SaLaaMz Ma stoRi iS i cUdNt lIvE WiTOwT MuSiC I dA ShoWER In dA CaR B4 gOINg 2 bEd 24/7 i uSe 2 LisTeN 2 MuSiC bUt thEn a ReaLIsED WuT i wAS DoinG YeA Am nOt pERFeCt bUt nOw MAsHaLLa iTz bIn 9 moNthZ aV KePt ma WuRd n dOnT LisTEn 2 MuSiC :d aM PrOuD Of MA sELf LoL :P i LIkE NasHeeDz nOw n LuB ZaiN BhiKa n NaTiVe dEEn :D
Reply

Smok
01-13-2006, 09:25 PM
:sl:

So could anyone tell me if music is allowed in Islam? But please remember that I'm not muslim and you should talk in simple way :)
Maybe there are kinds of allowed music?
I have read all these replies but I'm not sure if music is OK or not :)

:w:
Reply

Syed Hussain
01-13-2006, 09:31 PM
ASW
by listening to music even islamic ones a person becomes distant fromm the quran and will want to listen to songs rather thaan recitation. inshallah may the youth realise this and decrease in their sinnings and may they be forgiven inshallah.
ASW
Reply

Syed Hussain
01-13-2006, 09:32 PM
ASW
what are the rulings of SINGING in front of audiences whatever gender they are and age.
ASW
Reply

Hemoo
01-16-2006, 01:42 PM
السلام عليكم
brothers and sisters of islam ,
thanks for your participations and comments on this topic.

and i want to say that this article is concerning only the musical instruments and i am 1000000 percent positive that the music is prohibited in islam and i am willing to debate on it.

and about the singing with poetry as i know its allowed but with some conditions.

and for the speech to continue later.

,wa assalamu alykom wa rahmato allah wa barakato

your brother hemo.....
Reply

james
01-20-2006, 03:32 PM
Selam.........

yesterday i went to a muslim shop near my home in Kocaeli, Turkey looking for Yusuf Islam's last recording....and i heard some music playing in the background...I decided to purchase the album by a singer called Sami Yusuf and the album is titled MY UMMAH.

I HIGHLY recommend this album to all you brothers and sisters.....It is in English and Arabic and is soooo peaceful and heart waarming......I havent stopped listening to it since yesterday........

Have you heard it and if so do you have a favourite track..?
Reply

safwana
01-20-2006, 03:34 PM
yes i ave heard of it. is a very gd 1. pity it contains music(instrument)in it?
Reply

Ghazi
01-20-2006, 03:36 PM
Originally Posted by safwana
yes i ave heard of it. is a very gd 1. pity it contains music(instrument)in it?
Salaam

Well if this is the case then I would advice everyone to stay away from it.
Reply

james
01-20-2006, 03:42 PM
sorry........need some advice here.....

are you saying if there is music on a religious album then it is wrong according to the Koran ar is that just your personal view????

(new muslim slightly confused now)......help
Reply

Takumi
01-20-2006, 04:22 PM
Originally Posted by james
sorry........need some advice here.....

are you saying if there is music on a religious album then it is wrong according to the Koran ar is that just your personal view????

(new muslim slightly confused now)......help
oh you're fine james. You're not confused. :)

Sami Yusuf's CD is great! Personally, I don't dig English words in Arabic rythm but that's me.

YOu might also try http://www.oceanstarpro.com if you like Islamic songs.
Reply

mary
01-20-2006, 04:25 PM
salam,
hey yes sami yusuf cd does rock i got it 4 Eid and its sooo beautiful, everyone shd have a listen its sooo nice and peaceful....

w/s
Reply

Tasneem
01-20-2006, 04:29 PM
I heard that

They have instruments

Music is toatally harram

SaLaMz
Reply

james
01-20-2006, 04:29 PM
thanks bros and sis......i feelbetter now..i didnt think it was wrong but at least Yusuf Islam and Sami Yusuf can stay in my music collection now.....

i listened to Davud Wransby Ali as well on Yusuf's Bismillah album as well...
that's very nice and well....enjoyable ......

thanks again.....Peace upon you all.....
Reply

Takumi
01-20-2006, 04:30 PM
Originally Posted by Jihad_spun
I heard that

They have instruments

Music is toatally harram

SaLaMz
James, ignore this post. :) It's a matter of difference of opinion and I'm glad you like those CD's!

Check out also http://www.meemmusic.com
Reply

mary
01-20-2006, 04:34 PM
Originally Posted by Jihad_spun
I heard that

They have instruments

Music is toatally harram

SaLaMz
u know he has an album as well the same version but without the instruments , its just drum based as some insist instuments are haraam even though he is trying to propagate something gd, thats just a suggestion for anyone who is still intersted and nooo im not being paid as a marketing stance or anything :okay:
Reply

Tasneem
01-20-2006, 04:34 PM
Originally Posted by Takumi
James, ignore this post. :) It's a matter of difference of opinion and I'm glad you like those CD's!

Check out also http://www.meemmusic.com

What?!

Music is harram it breads hypocrisy in
Men.
James dont ingnore this post
MUSIC IS HARRAM

SaLaMz
Reply

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