Translation project to bring cream of foreign writers to Arabs

[czgibson]

Greetings,

I came across this news article yesterday. It's nothing to do with Islam, but there may be some people on the site who can shed some light on it:

Translation project to bring cream of foreign writers to Arabs

Ian Black
Thursday November 22, 2007
The Guardian

Books by Stephen Hawking, Umberto Eco, Haruki Murakami and other star writers past and present have been chosen as the first works to be translated into Arabic, in a major initiative to widen access to foreign literature.

The Abu Dhabi-based project, Kalima ("word" in Arabic), aims to publish 100 books in its first year and 500 titles a year by 2010, it announced yesterday.

The first 100 are from 16 languages, including Greek, Japanese, Swedish, Czech, Russian, Chinese, Yiddish, Italian, Norwegian, Latin and ancient Greek. Half the candidate titles are English.

Four years ago the UN's Arab human development report identified a lack of translated foreign works as an issue restricting Arab intellectual life. The UN report noted that Spain translates in one year the number of books that have been translated into Arabic in the past 1,000 years.

"The rest of the world enjoys a wealth of domestic and translated writing, why should the Arab world be any different?" Karim Nagy, Kalima's Egyptian chief executive, said as the first titles were announced. "We can start putting Arabic readers back in touch with great works of world literature and academia, and begin filling the gaps in the Arabic library."

The selection process is designed to strike a balance between different genres, juxtaposing the works of classic authors with contemporary writers. Academic, business and educational material is also being translated.

The organisers point out that in Europe's "dark ages" and until the end of the first millennium Arab scholars and libraries led the world in producing and preserving knowledge in science, medicine, philosophy and the arts. Since then, however, very few foreign works have found their way into Arabic.

"In past centuries Arabic learning was a source of great riches for the western intellectual tradition," said the British author Ian McEwan. "It is a cause for celebration that this major translation initiative is able to offer riches in return."

Other titles due out in Arabic this year are by Nadine Gordimer, Khaled Hosseini, Albert Camus, George Eliot, Albert Einstein, Jacques Lacan and Spinoza.

Muhammad al-Mazrouei, of the Abu Dhabi Authority for Culture and Heritage, which is financing the translation and publishing project, said: "We want to give Arabic readers the opportunity to read and enjoy a breadth of quality writing from around the world in their mother tongue. Arabic is a beautifully expressive language, and one that should be more widely celebrated and valued."

Source

The article mentions this claim, which has been knocking around for a while:

Four years ago the UN's Arab human development report identified a lack of translated foreign works as an issue restricting Arab intellectual life. The UN report noted that Spain translates in one year the number of books that have been translated into Arabic in the past 1,000 years.

I've seen at least one refutation of this by an Arabic writer, yet here it is again, being reported in the Guardian. I'd like to find out the truth, if possible, so if any Arabic people here could shed any light on this it would be good.

Have there really been so few books translated into Arabic, or is this a mistake?

Peace

[Muezzin]

Approved. Sorry about the huge wait.

[Dawud_uk]

why do you believe this has nothing to do with islam?

i read the story in the indi, and the list of books reads like they are trying to push the western modernist ideas through in a rush of books as if the same books that brought certain ideas about in the west will do the same in the arab countries.

anyway, it is blatent propaganda effort as i see it though i am sure the kuffar on here will see it differently.

Abu Abdullah

[Nabooly]

why do you believe this has nothing to do with islam?

i read the story in the indi, and the list of books reads like they are trying to push the western modernist ideas through in a rush of books as if the same books that brought certain ideas about in the west will do the same in the arab countries.

anyway, it is blatent propaganda effort as i see it though i am sure the kuffar on here will see it differently.

Abu Abdullah

Theres already tons of western movies and shows in the middle east. This wont change anything :rolleyes:

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[Dawud_uk]

Theres already tons of western movies and shows in the middle east. This wont change anything :rolleyes:

that is true, but this is aimed at a different audiance, this is aimed at the middle classes to get them to change their way of thinking to a western way of thinking.

[Trumble]

anyway, it is blatent propaganda effort as i see it though i am sure the kuffar on here will see it differently.

This would be a blatant propaganda effort from the Abu Dhabi Authority for Culture and Heritage, would it? Maybe that's a cover for the local branch of the CIA? Maybe this Muhammad al-Mazrouei is the section chief, or something... maybe this might make the Abi Dhabi authorities wake up and spot the 'mole' in their midst?

I'm afraid the only the only thing 'blatant' is your paranoia.

[Tania]

I am for the freedom of speach :) and i think its positive they let the people to read. I like to read and the media its not the same thing like a book.

[KAding]

that is true, but this is aimed at a different audiance, this is aimed at the middle classes to get them to change their way of thinking to a western way of thinking.

Even if this is true and thats their motivation for the translations (which I don't think is true), I think people should research both and make an informed opinion. Can't do that if the people don't have adequate access to 'the other side'. Thats why I also applaud all the translation the Saudi's are doing of books about Islam.

May the best ideology win, through debate and conversion and not on the battlefield! :D

[Woodrow]

I don't see that this has been the factor that has been limiting knowledge in any predominate Arabic speaking nation. In the Arabic speaking countries I have lived the majority of the people who read and write Arabic are multi-lingual and have read many books in the original languages.

For example I have found that throughout North Africa most people that can read and write Arabic will usually also read and write in at least one of the following: French, Spanish, English and/or German. Most often French and English. However in Morocco most people that can read and write will be literate in Arabic, French, Spanish and English. But in Morocco over half of the people can not read or write in any Language, illiteracy is very high.

I doubt if all of them are translated into Arabic it will have any impact on their being read or not read. Those that can Read and Write Arabic most likely can read them in their current language if they so desire and to those who do not read and write Arabic, it will make no diference.

[Muezzin]

It's weird people think this is an ideological thing. I see the works of George Eliot and Stephen Hawking are mentioned.

I don't think Silas Marner or theories about space, the universe and everything constitute an ideology of any sort. It's just literature and information respectively. Ideological stuff would be more like, say, the Communist Manifesto.

Although, judging from his quote, I guess Ian McEwan's stuff would be published too. I've only read 'Enduring Love' for English Literature, and disliked it until the end, where I felt it picked up and I actually started enjoying it, but where just about every other person thought it went downhill. God forbid a work of Great Literature (tm) actually entertains you :p

Also, they should so badly translate 'Battle Royale' by Koushun Takami for good, pulpy fun.

[Cognescenti]

It's weird people think this is an ideological thing. I see the works of George Eliot and Stephen Hawking are mentioned.

I don't think Silas Marner or theories about space, the universe and everything constitute an ideology of any sort. It's just literature and information respectively. Ideological stuff would be more like, say, the Communist Manifesto.

Although, judging from his quote, I guess Ian McEwan's stuff would be published too. I've only read 'Enduring Love' for English Literature, and disliked it until the end, where I felt it picked up and I actually started enjoying it, but where just about every other person thought it went downhill. God forbid a work of Great Literature (tm) actually entertains you :p

Also, they should so badly translate 'Battle Royale' by Koushun Takami for good, pulpy fun.

Books of scientific import can indeed change societies. Look at Darwin's On the Origin of Species, for eg.

[Tania]

I don't see that this has been the factor that has been limiting knowledge in any predominate Arabic speaking nation. In the Arabic speaking countries I have lived the majority of the people who read and write Arabic are multi-lingual and have read many books in the original languages.

Its good than :). I read books only in my language. :-[

[Woodrow]

Its good than :). I read books only in my language. :-[

I grew up in the USA, But I read books in more than one language. I think most Americans that have attended College also do or have had. also here in the southern States most schools teach in both Spanish and English and the kids are becoming bi-Lingual. I have found Australia and the USA to be the only countries where most of the population does not read more than one language.

[Muezzin]

Books of scientific import can indeed change societies. Look at Darwin's On the Origin of Species, for eg.

That's true.

Perhaps Hawking's book mean greater Middle Eastern interest in space exploration? The scientists would already have read such things, but I'm not so sure about the common man.

And they should still translate 'Battle Royale'. ;)

[czgibson]

Greetings,

Thanks for the replies so far. Is there anyone who answer the key question:

Have there really been so few books translated into Arabic, or is this a mistake?

Peace

[Jayda]

hola

this is a really interesting idea! i hope it brings a lot of new ideas to the arab world, and perhaps in turn we will see new ideas come from them for us :)

que Dios te bendiga

[syilla]

lol...actually arabs are more updated and trendier compared to the Malaysian...

i don't think they need any of the translations books.

[amille40]

Also, they should so badly translate 'Battle Royale' by Koushun Takami for good, pulpy fun.

Battle Royal, eh? Havent heard anyone talk about that book for a loooong time :P.

I agree though, Im not sure how much of a difference translating these highly intellectual books will do. I would think the people who would want to read stephen hawkings would read it regardless of the language. I dont think the average person is really jumping at the chance to read it in their native tongue. (I know I havent lol)

But who knows...

[KAding]

Greetings,

Thanks for the replies so far. Is there anyone who answer the key question:

Have there really been so few books translated into Arabic, or is this a mistake?

Peace

Any indication that it is a mistake?

Isn't this simply a matter of economic development? Aren't most Arab countries fairly lowly developed rural societies? How many of these titles have been translated into, say, other large languages like Hausa or Mandarin? That would be an more interesting comparison IMHO than comparing it with Spain.

[czgibson]

Greetings,

Any indication that it is a mistake?

I only say that because I read a stern "refutation" of it by an Arabic writer (I can't seem to find it right now). It wasn't that convincing, though, and I suspect that there genuinely have been very few books translated into Arabic. I was just looking to see if anyone else could confirm or deny.

Peace

[Woodrow]

Greetings,


I only say that because I read a stern "refutation" of it by an Arabic writer (I can't seem to find it right now). It wasn't that convincing, though, and I suspect that there genuinely have been very few books translated into Arabic. I was just looking to see if anyone else could confirm or deny.

Peace

Greetings,

Quite a bit of literature is available in Arabic:

Some examples:

http://www.carthago.info/index.html

http://www.alkitab.com/main.asp?uri=1065&cat=1.264.145

http://www.alkitab.com/main.asp?uri=1065&cat=1.264.289

Shakespeare in Arabic at the Moroccan Shakespeare theater. Shakespeares plays are available in Arabic at nearly if not all Arabic universities, plus most Arabic countries do have at least one Shakespearean Theater in Arabic. Kuwait has a very good one.

http://www.postcolonialweb.org/moroc...re/amine2.html


To be honest I am not able to find any major book that can not be found in Arabic. Now it is true that Pornography, Anti-Islamic and such will most likely not be found in most Arabic Speaking countries. However, such things are found in Arabic. But, usually not in the Muslim Arabic community.

I may be wrong, but this sounds like a little manipulation of information for somebody to get some big dollar grants from the UN. Not intentional, some people may actually believe that a lot of classical literature can not be found in Arabic.

[czgibson]

Greetings Woodrow,

Thanks for the information, there's some interesting stuff there. I would assume that lots of classical works of literature would be available in Arabic, as much of it was preserved by Arabs! One version of the claim I've read says that the dearth of translations begins after the ninth century CE.

So would works like Montaigne's Essays, Kant's Critiques, Hume's Dialogues, Paine's Rights of Man, Joyce's Ulysses or Tolkien's Lord of the Rings be available, do you think? I'm just trying to get a handle on this.

Peace

[Woodrow]

Greetings Woodrow,

Thanks for the information, there's some interesting stuff there. I would assume that lots of classical works of literature would be available in Arabic, as much of it was preserved by Arabs! One version of the claim I've read says that the dearth of translations begins after the ninth century CE.

So would works like Montaigne's Essays, Kant's Critiques, Hume's Dialogues, Paine's Rights of Man, Joyce's Ulysses or Tolkien's Lord of the Rings be available, do you think? I'm just trying to get a handle on this.

Peace

Here are Kant's Critiques in Arabic. I am looking for the others.

http://www.marefa.org/index.php/%D8%A5%D9%8A%D9%85%D8%A7%D9%86%D9%88%D9%8A%D9%84_% D9%83%D8%A7%D9%86%D8%AA

There is a link to Montaigne's Essays on the same page, in Arabic. Granted the site is a little difficult to navigate, but you will find the works of both in Arabic. Just have to click on the right links.

[czgibson]

Greetings,

Nice work, Woodrow. This is really helpful of you, thank you. I think this is an important issue, so any help is appreciated.

Here are Kant's Critiques in Arabic. I am looking for the others.

That looks like a bibliography to me. Is there a link there to an Arabic text of the Critiques?

There is a link to Montaigne's Essays on the same page, in Arabic. Granted the site is a little difficult to navigate, but you will find the works of both in Arabic. Just have to click on the right links.

That's what I'm discovering, yes!

For some reason it thrills me to think that somebody somewhere might be reading Montaigne or Kant in Arabic.

Peace

[Woodrow]

Greetings,

I think you will find that nearly every English book has been translated into Arabic at one time or another. Not all but a large number, I have not been able to find Tolkien's books in Arabic but I know the movies with available in Arabic
subtitles.

http://www.mymoviestream.com/movies/....aspx?id=66125

Kant is used in some Arabic sociology classes. Although he is not spoken of very flatteringly.

Most of the major Arabic language Universities have excellent libraries and do have a good selection of classics from many Languages.

What I find to be a shortage of, is Arabic classics translated into English. About the only ones, Besides the Qur'an, are Gibran's "The Prophet" and the "Rubaiyat" by Omar Khayyam. I know there are more. But only a very small amount of Arabic Literature has been translated into English.

[czgibson]

Greetings,

I think you will find that nearly every English book has been translated into Arabic at one time or another. Not all but a large number, I have not been able to find Tolkien's books in Arabic but I know the movies with available in Arabic
subtitles.

I might well find that; I'm still looking, though, that's the thing.

Kant is used in some Arabic sociology classes. Although he is not spoken of very flatteringly.

That's interesting to hear. For Westerners, he is pretty much the greatest modern philosopher (in an understanding that the 18th century is part of the modern era). Perhaps it was his unpicking of Aquinas' five ways that has made in unpopular in Arab society.

What I find to be a shortage of, is Arabic classics translated into English. About the only ones, Besides the Qur'an, are Gibran's "The Prophet" and the "Rubaiyat" by Omar Khayyam. I know there are more. But only a very small amount of Arabic Literature has been translated into English.

[I thought Omar Khayyam wrote in Persian? I presume Persian and Arabic have similarities beyond the script?]

I can think of loads of Arabic classics in English. Maybe we should try this the other way round! Are there any books you'd like me to try and find in English?

I realise I'm opening myself up to possible embarrassment here, and note from this wikipedia article that "Few modern Arabic works have been translated into other languages." In any case, which classics are English monoglots missing out on? It would be good to find out.

Peace

[Woodrow]

Greetings CZ,

you are correct that Khayyam originally wrote in Persian however, most of his works were translated to Arabic very soon after they were written and much of his work was only preserved in Arabic. There actually is a lot of difference between Persian(Farsi) and Arabic, Although Farsi is written in a modified Arabic script.

I promise I will try to find some classical Arabic literature in English for you. Some of the less common but more educational/academic type things. the dislike I find many Arabs have about Kant is that some of his work comes across as being anti-Semitic.

[MinAhlilHadeeth]

:salamext: and greetings,

Interesting! As an English Literature student, I actually enjoy reading - though I don't have much time for it. I'm having mixed feelings about this at the moment.

Four years ago the UN's Arab human development report identified a lack of translated foreign works as an issue restricting Arab intellectual life.

Excuse me? Just because people choose not to read English literature, that doesn't make them dense!

[syilla]

^^^ yeah i know what you mean...

they don't know the truth about the arabian...lol

i guess maybe we should show to them the saudi arabia woman video.... :D

[Woodrow]

Greetings,


I might well find that; I'm still looking, though, that's the thing.



That's interesting to hear. For Westerners, he is pretty much the greatest modern philosopher (in an understanding that the 18th century is part of the modern era). Perhaps it was his unpicking of Aquinas' five ways that has made in unpopular in Arab society.



[I thought Omar Khayyam wrote in Persian? I presume Persian and Arabic have similarities beyond the script?]

I can think of loads of Arabic classics in English. Maybe we should try this the other way round! Are there any books you'd like me to try and find in English?

I realise I'm opening myself up to possible embarrassment here, and note from this wikipedia article that "Few modern Arabic works have been translated into other languages." In any case, which classics are English monoglots missing out on? It would be good to find out.

Peace

Here is a classic Author that most of his work has not been translated into English. I believe this is the only work of his many that has been translated.

The trend towards linguistic virtuosity led, ultimately, to a triumph of form over content. al-HARIRI (c 1054-1122) took the maqamah to new heights (or extremes) in order to demonstrate his prowess with word-play and his seemingly inexhaustible vocabulary. In one work, he used only those letters of the alphabet which have no dots or do not join to the following letter in a word. Even so, for more than seven centuries, al-Hariri's maqamat were regarded as the greatest literary treasure of Arabic, after the Qur'an. According to some readers, wholesome moral values and subtle criticisms of the existing social order underlie al-Hariri's decorative language.

Source of Quote: http://www.al-bab.com/arab/literature/lit.htm

This is a discussion of one of the works of "Al Hariri of Basrah" I beleive this is the only work of his that has been translated into English. .



Al Hariri of Basrah (446-516 A.H./1054-1122 CE):
Maqamat, (The Assemblies), c. 1100 CE

http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/basis/1100Hariri.html

[czgibson]

Greetings,

:salamext: and greetings,

Interesting! As an English Literature student, I actually enjoy reading - though I don't have much time for it. I'm having mixed feelings about this at the moment.

A very wise choice of course, if I may say so!

Excuse me? Just because people choose not to read English literature, that doesn't make them dense!

You misunderstand - the claim is about translating works from ALL other foreign languages, not just English.

Just to repeat my position here: I don't know if the UN's claim is true or not, but I suspect it probably is. I've used this thread to try and find out one way or the other.

I promise I will try to find some classical Arabic literature in English for you.

I meant it the other way round! You've gone to the trouble of looking for classic works of Western literature in Arabic, so how about I look for Arabic classics in English? So far, it certainly looks like there are big limitations on both sides, although I have been able to find in English loads of works by and about al-Ghazali, al-Tabari, Avicenna (Ibn Sina), Averroes (Ibn Rushd), Moses Maimonides , as well as obvious texts like the One Thousand And One Nights, the Qur'an and the hadith literature.

Al-Hariri's work looks like just the kind of thing I love - I'm a sucker for word-play, cryptic crosswords and things like that. So, besides the Assemblies, what other works did he write?

the dislike I find many Arabs have about Kant is that some of his work comes across as being anti-Semitic.

I've got to admit, that has surprised me. Firstly (and there's no easy way to say this) because every single Arab I have spoken to about it in person has been virulently anti-Semitic to a degree that is shocking, and secondly because Kant's undoubted anti-Semitism has very little to do with his philosophy. Here's one philosopher's view on the matter.

Peace

[Muezzin]

Semite
1847, "Jew, Arab, Assyrian, Aramæan," from Mod.L. Semita, from L.L. Sem "Shem," one of the three sons of Noah (Gen. x:21-30), regarded as the ancestor of the Semites (in the days when anthropology was still bound by the Bible), from Heb. Shem. Semitic (1813 of languages, 1826 of persons) is probably from Ger. semitisch (first used by Ger. historian August Schlözer, 1781), denoting the language group that includes Hebrew, Arabic, Aramaic, Assyrian, etc. In recent use often with the specific sense "Jewish," but not historically so limited.

anti-Semitism
1881, from Ger. Antisemitismus, first used by Wilhelm Marr in 1880, from anti- + Semite (q.v.). Not etymologically restricted to anti-Jewish theories, actions or policies, but almost always used in this sense. Those who object to the inaccuracy of the term might try H. Adler's Judaeophobia (1882).

Online Etymology Dictionary

That site is great.

[czgibson]

Greetings,

None of that is news to me, Muezzin, and I don't really see how it's relevant, to be honest.

Sorry if I sound a little harsh, I'm just saying what I mean.

Peace

[Muezzin]

Nah, that's not harsh. You're an English teacher - I'd be surprised if you didn't know the above.

It's more for the benefit of others who might not know the word's origin. :) Also, it's the only explanation I have, if we're operating on the somewhat impolite assumption that Arab people are all anti-Jewish.

[czgibson]

Greetings,

Also, it's the only explanation I have, if we're operating on the somewhat impolite assumption that Arab people are all anti-Jewish.

Yes, I admit it's very impolite. Unfortunately, it happens to be the truth in my personal experience. I've taught about 150 Arabic chaps over the years, mainly in Arab-only classes, and any anti-Jewish statement made by a student in those classes would instantly be given assent by the others, in every case. At one point we had a Jewish lady in the school, having lessons in another class. We deliberately kept this fact away from the Arabic guys out of genuine fear for her safety if they found out.

Perhaps I haven't met enough Arabic people, but what can I say in the face of my experiences?

Peace

[Muezzin]

I don't want to derail the thread any further. I do hope that this translation initiative will help people to open their minds.

That goes for translations of literature into all major languages, be it Arabic, English, French, whatever. Communication is the key. :)

[czgibson]

Greetings,

I don't want to derail the thread any further.

Ahem, good point!

Communication is the key. :)

Absolutely. I'm beginning to think that it's no wonder Islam and the West have moved so far apart if they haven't been reading each other's literatures for so long.

That's why I'm going to start reading al-Hariri's Assemblies as soon as I get the chance, and if you're an Arabic speaker, you could have a go at, ooh, I don't know, Lord of the Rings?

Peace

[MinAhlilHadeeth]

You misunderstand - the claim is about translating works from ALL other foreign languages, not just English.

I don't see why that should restrict their intelligence?

[czgibson]

Greetings,

I don't see why that should restrict their intelligence?

I don't think anyone's suggesting that, simply that (if the claim is true) it means that Arabic society is very insular, and less likely to have kept up with intellectual developments in the rest of the world. It wouldn't mean that Arabs as a whole were less intelligent, just less informed.

Peace

[Woodrow]

Al-Hariri's work looks like just the kind of thing I love - I'm a sucker for word-play, cryptic crosswords and things like that. So, besides the Assemblies, what other works did he write?


I've got to admit, that has surprised me. Firstly (and there's no easy way to say this) because every single Arab I have spoken to about it in person has been virulently anti-Semitic to a degree that is shocking, and secondly because Kant's undoubted anti-Semitism has very little to do with his philosophy. Here's one philosopher's view on the matter.

Peace

One of his best works of al-Hariri that has not been translated is "Mulhat al-I'rab Fi Al-Nahw" which is an epic poem dealing with the Arabic language, it also contains an excellent commentary by him, it is a combination of grammar education, satire and humor.

The Assemblies is just a very small portion of his masterpiece "Maqamat" which is actually a multi volume collection of all of his tales. "The Assemblies" seems to be only about 10% of the total work.


Antisemitism is not just anti-Jewish although in modern usage that is what it often applies to. The Arabs are also semitic.

[MinAhlilHadeeth]

I very much doubt that, considering the various means of communication that have been developed, e.g. television and the internet.

And I don't think people read many foreign works in this country (England) either?

[czgibson]

Greetings,

One of his best works of al-Hariri that has not been translated is "Mulhat al-I'rab Fi Al-Nahw" which is an epic poem dealing with the Arabic language, it also contains an excellent commentary by him, it is a combination of grammar education, satire and humor.

Yep - it doesn't seem to be around in English.

The Assemblies is just a very small portion of his masterpiece "Maqamat" which is actually a multi volume collection of all of his tales. "The Assemblies" seems to be only about 10% of the total work.

There are fifty tales from it in English translation, as far as I can tell. Do you know how many he wrote in total?

Antisemitism is not just anti-Jewish although in modern usage that is what it often applies to. The Arabs are also semitic.

As Muezzin's etymological post stated. As I said to him, this isn't news to me. Fair enough if you're just emphasising this for the benefit of others, though.

I very much doubt that, considering the various means of communication that have been developed, e.g. television and the internet.

What about the four hundred years or so before that? A people being in the dark for so long is going to have a dramatic effect, no? Plus, in intellectual matters, there's no substitute for a good book. Television just doesn't cut it in academic circles, and the Internet is still developing its power as an intellectual resource.

And I don't think people read many foreign works in this country (England) either?

People don't read enough anywhere, to be frank, but in the UK the whole edifice of 'Arts and Social Sciences' faculties at universities up and down the land would collapse without the resources of foreign texts. Imagine sociology without Durkheim, philosophy without Kant or psychology without Freud. Impossible.

Peace

[Silver Pearl]

Greetings,


I don't think anyone's suggesting that, simply that (if the claim is true) it means that Arabic society is very insular, and less likely to have kept up with intellectual developments in the rest of the world. It wouldn't mean that Arabs as a whole were less intelligent, just less informed.

Peace

Greetings,

Having been an English Lit student for the past two years the books I had to study would not quite be to the taste buds of Arabs (in my opinion). Books like ‘If this is man’ By Levi and ‘Metamorphosis’ by Kafka would perhaps be rejected due to the fact that both writers are Jewish. While I thought ‘If this is man’ was a compelling text it does not change the fact that perhaps an Arab would view the text differently because of the history they have with the Jews. It could also simply be that they do not have interest in books in different languages and as for those who do; perhaps they can read it from the original text. It is not to say that the Arab world is deprived from excellent work simply because they have not read a poem by Rossetti or had the joy of being mesmerised by the works of Dostoevsky.

[czgibson]

Greetings,

It is not to say that the Arab world is deprived from excellent work simply because they have not read a poem by Rossetti or had the joy of being mesmerised by the works of Dostoevsky.

Anyone who has not been mesmerised by Dostoyevsky is deprived, in my view!

Crime and Punishment is one of the greatest masterpieces of world literature.

Peace

[Woodrow]

From CZ

There are fifty tales from it in English translation, as far as I can tell. Do you know how many he wrote in total?

I am trying to find it in Arabic, so I don't make an error, I am reasonably certain the entire collection has at least 500 tales, it may be much high. I will repost the exact number when I find the full Arabic collection. (No I'm not going to count them, just go by the number of the last one.)

[MinAhlilHadeeth]

I can understand where you're coming from. But I don't think they are being intelectually restricted with regards to Fictional novels, plays, poetry, and so on and so forth. Despite how entertaining one may find these, I do not consider this as a measure of intelligence. You may disagree? But it's just an opinion, and not a fact.

Peace

p.s. I much prefer the Humanistic approach. Freud was somewhat... perverse.

[czgibson]

Greetings,

I can understand where you're coming from. But I don't think they are being intelectually restricted with regards to Fictional novels, plays, poetry, and so on and so forth. Despite how entertaining one may find these, I do not consider this as a measure of intelligence. You may disagree? But it's just an opinion, and not a fact.

[I'm not really sure how you're using the word 'intelligence' - I think we are understanding different things by it.]

Your point about fiction is an interesting one. I can see how someone unfamiliar with novels might think "well, what can I learn from them? They are made up." However, the psychological truths and information they can hold hold about a particular society are actually profound and complex. A novel is one of the very best ways of assessing the intellectual climate of the times in which it was written.

p.s. I much prefer the Humanistic approach. Freud was somewhat... perverse.

Interestingly, many psychology professors now disregard Freud almost entirely. His work was highly influential in psychology for a relatively short time. His influence has actually been far more profound in literary study. However, that he was one of the world's most important thinkers is absolutely not in doubt. Top ten - easily.

Peace

[MinAhlilHadeeth]

Greetings,


[I'm not really sure how you're using the word 'intelligence' - I think we are understanding different things by it.]

How do you understand the word?

Your point about fiction is an interesting one. I can see how someone unfamiliar with novels might think "well, what can I learn from them? They are made up." However, the psychological truths and information they can hold hold about a particular society are actually profound and complex. A novel is one of the very best ways of assessing the intellectual climate of the times in which it was written.

No, actually I really enjoy reading Fiction. Until I started my second year of A-levels recently, I used to write fictional stories as a hobby. It was quite useful for creative writing pieces in English Literature! The only reason I used that as an example was because Arabs might have their own substitutes? Besides, I don't think any piece of literature is really the same once you translate it in to another language. I think it would lose a lot of the meaning?

Interestingly, many psychology professors now disregard Freud almost entirely. His work was highly influential in psychology for a relatively short time. His influence has actually been far more profound in literary study. However, that he was one of the world's most important thinkers is absolutely not in doubt. Top ten - easily.

I think this is largely to due with the lack of empirical evidence in the psychodynamic approach. Freud may have been influential, but once you examine his analysis of little Hans, for example... it becomes apparant that he may have needed a psychiatrist himself!

[Woodrow]

I think this is largely to due with the lack of empirical evidence in the psychodynamic approach. Freud may have been influential, but once you examine his analysis of little Hans, for example... it becomes apparant that he may have needed a psychiatrist himself!

Speaking as a Psychologist. Freud's theories have long ago fallen into disfavor. The value of Freud is that he was the first to show that Human Behavior could be measured in terms of quantification and qualification, thereby moving psychology from the field of philosophy to true analytical science. It is for this reason he is known as the father of modern psychology.