Originally Posted by Abdul Aziz
Another revisionist historian. The works of his students (i.e. Hargarism) have been rejected in the academic world.
Brother MENJ from bismika published an article respondin' to the allegations cited in the book.
To quote a few observants,
Humphreys, Islamic History, p. 85 writes:
In the end perhaps we ought to use Hagarism more a 'what-if' exercise than as a research monograph...
R. B. Sergeant informs that
Hagarism...is not only bitterly anti-Islamic in tone, but anti-Arabian. Its superficial fancies are so ridiculous that at first one wonders if it is just a 'leg pull', pure 'spoof'.
And Josef Van Ess seems to think that
...a refutation is perhaps unnecessary since the authors make no effort to prove it (the hypothesis of the book) in detail...Where they are only giving a new interpretation of well-known facts, this is not decisive. But where the accepted facts are consciously put upside down, their approach is disastrous
Waines in his book An Introduction To Islam says that
The Crone-Cook theory has been almost universally rejected. The evidence offered by the authors is far too tentative and conjectural (and possibly contradictory) to conclude that Arab-Jewish were as intimate as they would wish them to have been.
More at: bismika
Some Secular scholars are less willing to attribute the entire Qur'an to Muhammad. They argue that there is no real proof that the text of the Qur'an was collected under Uthman, since the earliest surviving copies of the complete Qur'an are centuries later than Uthman. (The oldest existing copy of the full text is from the ninth century .)
They see Islam as being formed slowly, over the centuries after the Muslim conquests, as the Islamic conquerors elaborated their beliefs in response to Jewish and Christian challenges.
We have discussed this several times (refer to Christ thread at comp rel sect).
Firstly, the preservation of the Glorious Qur'aan is universally recognized. The first method to preserve the Glorious Qur'aan was tawatur. It has reached us through tawatur, meaning continous transmission from generation to generation. In addition, the generation-to-generation transmission was always muttawatir, meaning that the majority of the generation conveyed the Glorious Qur'aan to the next generation.
The second method is the written form. We have Quraanic manuscripts dating from second half of the first century hijra onwards.
The brothers at IA highlight some of these manuscripts at:
The Qur'anic Manuscripts
But I am not going to elongate the subject that has already been discussed. A brother, named Sabeel Ahmed, wrote it an article which can be read at:
Proof of The Preservation of the Quran
3.Secular scholars also dispute the Islamic belief that the whole of the Qur'an is addressed by God to humankind. They note that there are numerous passages where God is directly addressed, or mentioned in the third person, or where the narrator swears by various entities, including God.
Recycled garbage. Everything has been dealth with.
Brother M A S Abdel Haleem from IA writes:
....we must deal with the question of why God is referred to, and so frequently, in the Qur'ān, in the 3rd person.
The first and most important reason for God's speaking about Himself in the 3rd person relates to the fundamental message of the Qur'ān, which is calling men to the religion of tawhīd
according to which 'there is no god but Allāh '. The testimony begins with the negation of any other god, then moves on to except only one, who is named Allāh. No pronoun, even of the first person, will do here in place of the name.
'Call not upon another god with Allāh, lest you incur punishment' - 26:213.
This is clear in verses that show the contrast between Allāh - in this particular name - and any other assumed deity. In successive verses, for instance (27:60-4) we have a structure such as:
' . . . Who created the heavens and the earth and brought down for you water from the sky. . . another god besides Allāh? Yet they make others equal (to Him).'
The sequence ends with 'Say: " No one in the heavens or on earth has knowledge of the unseen except Allāh".' The Qur'ānic message is meant to be communicated to men naming Allāh as the lord they should serve. Knowledge of the unseen, creation and Judgement are the prerogative of Allāh in the religion of tawhīd
and as such frequently accompany His name which is considered in Arabic grammar a'raf al-ma'āirf
(the most definite of all definite pro/nouns). Similarly, in the Qur'ān hamd
truly belongs to Allāh and it occurs in the text forty odd times together with the name of Allāh or, if it is with His pronoun, comes very soon after the name: in a few cases it combines with rabb
(cf. also hudā
). The Qur'ān describes Allāh, in His particular name, to believers and non-believers: He does such and such, e.g. 16:65-81; it is He Who.... 16:10-20. Adjectival structures, ordinary or relative, require a noun before them - in this case, Allāh. Such combinations occur frequently in the Qur'ān (e.g. 1:1 4, 59:22 4). The name of Allāh is also used in verses (frequently at the end, commonly introduced by kān
) indicating that such is His way, e.g.
'That was Allāh's way with those who passed away of old - and the commandment of Allāh is certain destiny.' (33:38)
' Give . . . before death comes to one of you and he says "Reprieve me, Lord a while". .. But Allāh reprieves no soul when its term comes: Allāh has knowledge of all your actions.' (63:10-1)
The Qur'ān, it should be remembered, is not an autobiography of Allāh which thus has to be cast wholly in the form of 'I' and 'me'; it is revealed for men who will speak in their prayers and to each other about Allāh. It urges the believers: 'Call, then unto Allāh, making your religion His sincerely, though the unbelievers be averse' (Q. 40:14). It teaches them how to call upon Him in this way: Al-hamdu li'llāh rabbi'l-'ālamin
(40:65). It is not surprising, then, that this comes at the beginning of the Fātiha
to be repeated in the obligatory prayers at least 17 times a day.
It should also be noted that in some verses God is mentioned more than once, and is depicted from different perspectives so that we have a multiplicity of viewpoints:
'We suffice you against the mockers who serve another god with Allāh. Certainly they will soon know. We know you are distressed by what they say. Proclaim your Lord: praise and prostrate yourself and worship your Lord until the certain end comes to you.' (15:95-99)
Here God Himself speaks in the 1st person plural of majesty to assure the Prophet: from the point of view of the mockers, they serve another God beside Allāh; and from the point of view of the Prophet, he should serve his caring, reassuring Lord. 'All that is in the heavens and the earth magnifies Allāh' (57:1, 59: 1, 61: 1, 62:1, 64: 1). From God's point of view, He proclaims to all that this is the prerogative of Allāh, shared by no other deity, and believers read this from their point of view, which is that of glorifying Allāh. It is important, then, when discussing reference to God in the 3rd person in the Qur'ān to bear in mind two things: the principle of tawhīd
and the multiplicity of viewpoints observed in the language of the Muslim scripture.
In the following examples of the second category of iltifāt
we see that there is a shift from the 1st person to the 3rd, in which God is referred to as Allāh or rabb, emphasizing tawhīd
, and showing the multiplicity of viewpoints: 'Eat of the good things wherewith We
have provided you, and render thanks to Allāh if it is He
whom you worship' (2:172).'We shall cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve, because they ascribe partners to Allāh' (3:151). 'David, We
have appointed you a viceroy in the land; therefore judge between men justly and follow not caprice lest it leads you astray from the way of Allāh' (38:26). 'We
have given you a manifest victory, that Allāh may forgive you,... that Allāh may help you.' (48:1-3). (In this connexion we should remember that the Prophet used to repeat astaghfir Allāh
.) (Cf. also Q. 4:106, 8:10). Finally: 'We
have given you abundance: Pray then to your Lord
and sacrifice to Him - it is he that hates you who is cut off.' (Q. 108).
"Some asked what need there was for God to take oaths like any mortal being, as when he swears by the fig and olive, and by Mount Sinai (95:1); by the declining day (103:1); and by the stars, the night and the dawn (81:15-18). Above all, they asked why the Almighty had to swear on himself ..." (Walker, cited in Foundations of Islam, Peter Owen, 1998 p. 156)
I don't have a clue on this.
That is because when Allaah (Exalted is He) swears by something, such as Al-Asr (the time), it is used to make it more emphatic, indicating its seriousness and importance.
4.Secular scholars have also pointed out obscurities in the text, claiming that Muslim commentators have invented explanations rather than admit that they don't know what a word means.
Some Western scholars have been actively trying to interpret these obscure words by reference to languages that Muhammad might have encountered, such as Aramaic and Syriac, and from which he might have adopted words not then found in Arabic. Some scholars have tried to resolve obscurities by positing textual corruption, and advancing plausible replacements -- which is, of course, anathema in Muslim eyes. Muslims believe that the Qur'an is complete, perfect, and uncorrupted.
Is this true?
This doesn't even deserve a response.
One piece of advice akhee; stop debating with non-Muslims unless you have aquired sound knowledge and understanding of the Deen. It is not permissible to debate with them if you cannot respond to their false arguments using proof and evidnece.
Rememer, that when you're debating with Non-Muslims, you're automatically givin' daw'ah and performin' da'wah without any sufficient knowledge will never be succesful but rather contributes to the growth of the many preconceived notions held by your oppenent (i.e. the non-Muslim)