Accused of insulting islam with a teddy bear

[sabah]

Have muslims gone mad! check this story out and let me know your thoughts.


'Muhammad' teddy teacher arrested

Gillian Gibbons is described as "a talented and able teacher "

A British schoolteacher has been arrested in Sudan accused of insulting Islam's Prophet, after she allowed her pupils to name a teddy bear Muhammad.
Colleagues of Gillian Gibbons, 54, from Liverpool, said she made an "innocent mistake" by letting the six and seven-year-olds choose the name.
Ms Gibbons was arrested after several parents made complaints.
A spokesman from the British Embassy in Sudan's capital, Khartoum, said it was unclear whether she had been charged.
Embassy officials are expected to visit Ms Gibbons in custody later.
"We are in contact with the authorities here and they have visited the teacher and she is in a good condition," an embassy spokesman said.
The spokesman said the naming of the teddy happened months ago and was chosen by the children because it is a common name in the country.
"This happened in September and the parents did not have a problem with it," he said.
'Very sensitive'
The BBC's correspondent Amber Henshaw said Ms Gibbons' punishment could be up to six months in jail, 40 lashes or a fine.
The school has been closed until January for fear of reprisals.

Fellow teachers at Khartoum's Unity High School told Reuters news agency they feared for Ms Gibbons' safety after receiving reports that men had started gathering outside the police station where she was being held.
The school's director, Robert Boulos, said: "This is a very sensitive issue. We are very worried about her safety.

They came up with eight names including Abdullah, Hassan and Muhammad

Robert Boulos
Director of Unity High School


"This was a completely innocent mistake. Miss Gibbons would have never wanted to insult Islam."
Mr Boulos said Ms Gibbons was following a British national curriculum course designed to teach young pupils about animals and this year's topic was the bear.
Ms Gibbons, who joined the school in August, asked a seven-year-old girl to bring in her teddy bear and asked the class to pick names for it, he said.
"They came up with eight names including Abdullah, Hassan and Muhammad," Mr Boulos said, adding that she then had the children vote on a name.
Twenty out of the 23 children chose Muhammad as their favourite name.
Mr Boulos said each child was then allowed to take the bear home at weekends and told to write a diary about what they did with it.
He said the children's entries were collected in a book with a picture of the bear on the cover and a message which read, "My name is Muhammad."
Book seized
The bear itself was not marked or labelled with the name in any way, he added.
It is seen as an insult to Islam to attempt to make an image of the Prophet Muhammad.

Mr Boulos said Ms Gibbons was arrested on Sunday at her home inside the school premises after a number of parents complained to Sudan's Ministry of Education.

I know Gillian and she would never have meant it as an insult. I was just impressed that she got them to vote

Muslim colleague in Sudan



He said police had seized the book and asked to interview the girl who owned the bear.
The country's state-controlled Sudanese Media Centre reported that charges were being prepared "under article 125 of the criminal law" which covers insults against faith and religion.
No-one at the ministries of education or justice was available for comment.
Mr Boulos told the BBC he was confident she would not face a jail sentence.
"So far there is not any formal accusation, you see, so it wouldn't reach that, it will be just a fine. We are struggling with the authorities and our advocates to just release her, and then the whole case will be dismissed," he said.
One Muslim teacher at the independent school for Christian and Muslim children, who has a child in Ms Gibbons' class, said she had not found the project offensive.
"I know Gillian and she would never have meant it as an insult. I was just impressed that she got them to vote," the teacher said.
In Liverpool, a family spokeswoman said Ms Gibbons' grown children, John and Jessica - both believed to be in their 20s - were not commenting on her arrest. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/7112929.stm

[aaronmicalowe]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blasphemy
Blasphemy is the defamation of the name of one or more gods.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defamation
In law, defamation is the communication of a statement that makes a false claim, expressly stated or implied to be factual, that may harm the reputation of an individual, business, product, group, government or nation.

So let me get this right. Calling a teddy bear Muhammad is blasphemy because it implies that the teddy bear is Muhammad???

Otherwise I don't understand how Gillian Gibbons statement can be interpreted as a blasphemy, even technically.

I don't want to speculate further until someone can explain why. Please, if anyone answers, keep it simple and to the point.

PS I wrote to the Sudanese government online but got no confirmation that they received it.

[root]

Shoot UK teacher, say protesters;

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/7121025.stm

Moderate Islam 0 Islamaphobes 3

[Muezzin]

This whole situation is utterly ludicrous...

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[chosen]

do the people calling for this women to be killed..really follow islam...they seem to be so outside the norm of what I see from day to day as far as muslim behavior is concerned...what is wrong with these people.

[Muezzin]

Either they were ill-informed or they're just baying for blood. I hope it's the former rather than the latter.

I also hope the lady is freed and this insanity can come to an end.

[czgibson]

Greetings,

Unbelievable. These protesters think they are doing god's work, and, as always, that makes them dangerous, as no rational argument could possibly convince them they're wrong.

It has been reassuring to see the Muslim community in the UK condemning this situation as ludicrous from day one, but I fear that the consequences of this will be long-lasting.

People I know who are normally very tolerant are looking at this story and really beginning to think that Islam as a whole is crazy and dangerous. If I'm with a group of friends, and one of them says something anti-Islamic, I will be the one saying "well, it's not actually like that", or "it doesn't really say that in the Qur'an" and so on, largely relying on information I have gained from this site. This kind of situation just gives the Islamophobes one more big stick to beat the religion with, and makes defending Islam even harder.

This is probably the first time this has occurred to me, but I would really like to see Islam united. If there was a global assembly of Islamic scholars that were viewed as an authority by the world's Muslims, this kind of idiocy could be dealt with effectively, and the reputation of Islam would not have to be dragged through the mud on a regular basis, as it is nowadays. If the people of the world think that Islam has no way to prevent 'Muslims' behaving in ways that are stupid or dangerous in the belief that they are doing god's work, then things can only get worse.

Peace

[MTAFFI]

Calls in Sudan for execution of Briton
By MOHAMED OSMAN, Associated Press Writer 36 minutes ago


KHARTOUM, Sudan - Thousands of Sudanese, many armed with clubs and knives, rallied Friday in a central square and demanded the execution of a British teacher convicted of insulting Islam for allowing her students to name a teddy bear "Muhammad."

ADVERTISEMENT


The protesters streamed out of mosques after Friday sermons, as pickup trucks with loudspeakers blared messages against Gillian Gibbons, the teacher who was sentenced Thursday to 15 days in prison and deportation. She avoided the more serious punishment of 40 lashes.

They massed in central Martyrs Square outside the presidential palace, where hundreds of riot police were deployed. They did not try to stop the rally, which lasted about an hour.

"Shame, shame on the U.K.," protesters chanted.

They called for Gibbons' execution, saying, "No tolerance: Execution," and "Kill her, kill her by firing squad."

The women's prison where Gibbons is being held is far from the square.

Several hundred protesters, not openly carrying weapons, marched about a mile away to Unity High School, where Gibbons worked. They chanted slogans outside the school, which is closed and under heavy security, then marched toward the nearby British Embassy. They were stopped by security forces two blocks away from the embassy.

The protest arose despite vows by Sudanese security officials the day before, during Gibbons' trial, that threatened demonstrations after Friday prayers would not take place. Some of the protesters carried green banners with the name of the Society for Support of the Prophet Muhammad, a previously unknown group.

Many protesters carried clubs, knives and axes — but not automatic weapons, which some have brandished at past government-condoned demonstrations. That suggested Friday's rally was not organized by the government.

A Muslim cleric at Khartoum's main Martyrs Mosque denounced Gibbons during one sermon, saying she intentionally insulted Islam. He did not call for protests, however.

"Imprisoning this lady does not satisfy the thirst of Muslims in Sudan. But we welcome imprisonment and expulsion," the cleric, Abdul-Jalil Nazeer al-Karouri, a well-known hard-liner, told worshippers.

"This an arrogant woman who came to our country, cashing her salary in dollars, teaching our children hatred of our Prophet Muhammad," he said.

Britain, meanwhile, pursued diplomatic moves to free Gibbons. Prime Minister Gordon Brown spoke with a member of her family to convey his regret, his spokeswoman said.

"He set out his concern and the fact that we were doing all we could to secure her release," spokeswoman Emily Hands told reporters.

Most Britons expressed shock at the verdict by a court in Khartoum, alongside hope it would not raise tensions between Muslims and non-Muslims in Britain.
...

READ MORE

And we wonder where the Talibans and the Al-qaedas come from, take this cleric from example, openly preaching intolerance and hate.:thumbs_do

[Bittersteel]

it shows the Sudanese are irrational and illiterate in general.In fact Muslims are irrational nowadays making mountains out of molehills.there was also another 'name case' here in Bangladesh in this case a cat being named Mohammad and that too in a cartoon ridiculing not the prophet pbuh but a Mullah.

[Muezzin]

it shows the Sudanese are irrational and illiterate in general.

Hey, that's not fair. Don't generalise an entire nationality over this.

In fact Muslims are irrational nowadays making mountains out of molehills.

That, on the other hand, does have truth in it. Most unfortunately.

there was also another 'name case' here in Bangladesh in this case a cat being named Mohammad

Really?

and that too in a cartoon ridiculing not the prophet pbuh but a Mullah.

That's just silly. Unless the controversy related to Islamic rules on backbiting or something.

Anyway, I really want this lady to be freed. It's unjust to incarcerate her for such a misunderstanding.

[chosen]

I was online this morning reading news accounts of what is going on in the sudan...there was thousands of people protesting demanding the death of this poor teacher after comming out of mosque for friday prayers...the clerics were inciting these people and telling the she deserves to die because she "intentionally insulted the prophet"..

QUESTION...who monitors what these clerics are saying inside the mosque..is there any central authority to serve as a watch dag group to make sure this does not happen..

[Pk_#2]

Oh my days, what is this man, let her go *sad*

It was the kids that named the bear, next thing they're gonna be killing the kids *sad*

Astaghfirullah,

No wonder the world hates us, now there is yet another reason to hate us,

Argh! Wana migrate to Indonesia, though it is okay in UK, you do get stares though.

[Bittersteel]

It's unjust to incarcerate her for such a misunderstanding.

she isn't a bit guilty in my opinion.well maybe made an honest mistake but not guilty like a criminal.I mean it were the students who named the Teddy.
**** we Muslims are making some world history!war about a Teddy....

[Cognescenti]

The protesters streamed out of mosques after Friday sermons, as pickup trucks with loudspeakers blared messages against Gillian Gibbons, the teacher who was sentenced Thursday to 15 days in prison and deportation.
...

:omg:

Somebody in authority needs to ring up the dumb*** "cleric" spewing such idiocy and tell him to keep his ignorant, intolerant, 7th century mouth shut.

If this woman gets lynched over a Teddy bear it will not be forgotten. You think "Islamophobia" is bad now? There will instantly be no moderates left in the UK and not many in the rest of Europe, either. It will make the Danish cartoon flap look like child's play.

[saidah_ahmed]

I was watching the news about an English teacher in Sudan. I was just wondering if this is fair justice.

She basically used a Teddy Bear and named him Muhammad. when I was watching this, i felt that the society is giving Islam a bad name. She was sent to jail for 15 days. What do you think of this. And surely she didn't mean to say things like that. The British society respects Islam faith so why go this far? I personally think that its too extremist.

Thanks

[islamirama]

http://islamtoday.com/show_detail_se...&main_cat_id=3

[czgibson]

Greetings,

See here and here.

It's fair to say that the situation generally hasn't gone down well with most here.

Welcome to the forum! :)

Peace

[wilberhum]

The protesters streamed out of mosques after Friday sermons

So the mosques become the center for hate and intollorance.

Interesting.

[snakelegs]

here's a fatwa on the issue:
http://www.islamicboard.com/world-af...-prophets.html

[wilberhum]

I was just thinking. (I know that’s scary, but every once in a while I do)

Not too long ago, there were all kinds of nasty remarks made about a city that refused to grant permission to build a grand mosque in there city.

Now can’t you see some city planer sitting there with a proposal for a new mosque and lying next to the proposal is a news paper showing these pictures?

And captions that say.

The protesters streamed out of mosques after Friday sermons,

They burned pictures of Gibbons and called for her execution, saying, "No tolerance: Execution," and "Kill her, kill her by firing squad."
Hardline clerics who hold considerable influence with Sudan's Islamic government, have sought to whip up public anger over the Gibbons' case, calling her actions part of a Western plot to damage Islam.

I wonder what impact this would have on his decision.

[aadil77]

:sl:

I'm beginning to hate these 'muslims' they've totally ruined the name of islam! Why do they have to be so bloody extreme! Can't they live in peace without causing pain, why are they trying to take their anger for other injustice out on this helpless woman! She got a fair sentence - thats more than enough. These protesters are so bloody selfish, aren't they aware of the damage this causes to muslims in non-muslim countries?

This was a massive topic of discussion in one of my lessons in college and its getting too hard to clear up our name. It makes us look like some psycho people who are obsessed with inflicting pain:raging:

[------]

:salamext:

This is completely and utterly DAFT. :skeleton:

[AHMED_GUREY]

:omg:

Somebody in authority needs to ring up the dumb*** "cleric" spewing such idiocy and tell him to keep his ignorant, intolerant, 7th century mouth shut.

you chose not the 6th century nor the 8th century but the 7th century, very transparent!

mods?

[czgibson]

Greetings,

you chose not the 6th century nor the 8th century but the 7th century, very transparent!

mods?

What are you implying?

Peace

[AHMED_GUREY]

I think he made his point very clear, he picked a century that's one of the most significant centuries in Islam and used it to degrade a confused individual or in his words ''a dumbazz cleric''

i wasn't born yesterday and verbal acrobatic writings hiding a person's true intentions don't work on me, if you cannot see his comment for what it really is(a indirect insult on Islam...of course this will be denied and i will be branded a 'paranoid individual' followed by someone keeping the score Moderate Islam: 0 Islamophobes: 4 ) then i'm very sorry but i can't help you.

[Cognescenti]

you chose not the 6th century nor the 8th century but the 7th century, very transparent!

mods?

Very well. You tell me what century he is stuck in. Please edify me.

Where did this chap get such a notion? Why are his views out of line with every Muslim poster in this thread?

[Hashim_507]

Naming teddy Mohamed by non-muslim will lead to insulting our Prophet (P.B.U.H). This case is rare in the muslim world. The cartoon case was worser than this. The journalist who draw though it was a good joke to do but it turn out to be an insult. Also, Its forbidden for muslims to draw Prophets images ex(Jesus) or insult them.

[NoName55]

do the people calling for this women to be killed..really follow islam...they seem to be so outside the norm of what I see from day to day as far as muslim behavior is concerned...what is wrong with these people.

best tool the devil can have in his hands is the ignorants who can easily be directed to do his bidding and damage Islam.

[------]

:salamext:

Hashim, So why do Muslims canme their kids Muhammad? Isn't that insulting the Propet Muhammad (Sallallaahu Alayhi Wa Aalihi Wa Sallam)?

Please brothers and sisters, don't make Islaam out to be an intolerant religion!!! :-\

[جوري]

I was just thinking. (I know that’s scary, but every once in a while I do)

Not too long ago, there were all kinds of nasty remarks made about a city that refused to grant permission to build a grand mosque in there city.

Now can’t you see some city planer sitting there with a proposal for a new mosque and lying next to the proposal is a news paper showing these pictures?

And captions that say.
execution, saying, "No tolerance: Execution," and "Kill her, kill her by firing squad."





I wonder what impact this would have on his decision.

actually the captions say 'alqsas alqsas' and 'kol al umma fadak '
which means 'retribution retribution' and the 'entire umma are your champion' No mention of lady or burn her at stake or even a hint as to whom it is directed against!

I think the 'translators' should be a bit more forth coming so the whole story flows and I am not left wondering where the truth is from the insanity...

cheers

[جوري]

Very well. You tell me what century he is stuck in. Please edify me.

Where did this chap get such a notion? Why are his views out of line with every Muslim poster in this thread?

His views are out of line because he is under-educated.. 7th century Islam enabled Jews/Christians and Muslims to live side by side 800 yrs known as the age of Enlightenment.. I know you are always eager to jump on the band wagon, but please try to read a little and from some respected history books, so you don't end up making a complete pompous fool out of yourself on every thread!

cheers!

[Cognescenti]

I think he made his point very clear, he picked a century that's one of the most significant centuries in Islam and used it to degrade a confused individual or in his words ''a dumbazz cleric''

i wasn't born yesterday and verbal acrobatic writings hiding a person's true intentions don't work on me, if you cannot see his comment for what it really is(a indirect insult on Islam...of course this will be denied and i will be branded a 'paranoid individual' followed by someone keeping the score Moderate Islam: 0 Islamophobes: 4 ) then i'm very sorry but i can't help you.

I intended no insult to Islam in general, but this chowderhead pumping up his worshippers into a froth over a Teddy bear deserves derision. He is a cleric, is he not? He is a bit more than a "confused individual" as you describe him. He is in a position of authority. You can't simply dismiss him as you would a 3 year old.

Evey Muslim poster had criticized the actions in Sudan so there has to be a disconnect somewhere. I wasn't the first to call him ignorant either. In fact, that seems to be the prevailing opinion. Explain to me then, where he gets such ideas. Does he lack historical or cultural perspective? is he just a poor reader?

Does he have a poor Arabic translation? What the heck is the problem and how do we get rid of or educate such nimrods? I think we could all agree he is doing no good for Sudan or Islam.

[NoName55]

mods?

that is wishful thinking, my brother, you will not get any help from them, believe me, I've tried!

[AHMED_GUREY]

Cgnti

he is stuck in the 21st century wether 'you or me' like it or not, bigots exist in every country, confused individuals exist in every country and in every time period. Yes these same individuals have the capability to draw large crowds through propaganda but to use such a significant century in Islamic history as a tool to define ''backwardness and progressiveness'' is very sinister in my opinion equivalant to criticising a bigot(who claims to follow the teachings of Buddha) and then use the 5th century BC (of all centuries of past that you can choose) as the origin and reason for his mainstream rejected views(whatever they may be)

[Cognescenti]

His views are out of line because he is under-educated.. 7th century Islam enabled Jews/Christians and Muslims to live side by side 800 yrs known as the age of Enlightenment.. I know you are always eager to jump on the band wagon, but please try to read a little and from some respected history books, so you don't end up making a complete pompous fool out of yourself on every thread!

cheers!

Ah...thanks for that, sis. So the standard is that, for me to post here, I should know more about Islam than a Muslim cleric in the Sudan? Isn't that sort of the whole point of this forum...education??


BTW, doesn't say much for cleric quality control, does it?

I will await further insults should you choose to reply. I am used to it now.

[nevesirth]

same thing i was trying to say, when i tailked abt muslims killing for no reason in nigeria. its all madness done in the name of islam, kill her over the naming of a teddy bear? silly

[Cognescenti]

Cgnti

he is stuck in the 21st century wether 'you or me' like it or not, bigots exist in every country, confused individuals exist in every country and in every time period. Yes these same individuals have the capability to draw large crowds through propaganda but to use such a significant century in Islamic history as a tool to define ''backwardness and progressiveness'' is very sinister in my opinion equivalant to criticising a bigot(who claims to follow the teachings of Buddha) and then use the 5th century BC (of all centuries of past that you can choose) as the origin and reason for his mainstream rejected views(whatever they may be)

Yes, I can see your point. Sorry, I won't use such a reference in the future.

[جوري]

Ah...thanks for that, sis. So the standard is that, for me to post here, I should know more about Islam than a Muslim cleric in the Sudan? Isn't that sort of the whole point of this forum...education??


BTW, doesn't say much for cleric quality control, does it?

I will await further insults should you choose to reply. I am used to it now.

Indeed we are here to learn...thus I fail to see what the cleric in Sudan has to do with 7th century Islam? Perhaps you can connect the dots for us so I can understand you better and 'insult' you less?

[root]

This farce could never happen in the UK. No way could thousands come out onto the streets in protest over such a trivial issue, we would never get the time off work for a start.

I don't think we will see thousands of British Subjects on the streets burning the Sudan flag calling for some movement at Faslane. Organising mass boycots of sudanese imports.

A fatwa will be issued next since they have moved her to a secret location for her own protection.

Let's all blame the US like most people here do. Afterall, they gave us the teddy bear to corrupt everyone with the evil democracy, it's a conspiracy of the US............

[qassy!]

why dont they let her go? she didnt know did she?

[NoName55]

A fatwa will be issued next since they have moved her to a secret location for her own protection.

Let's all blame the US like most people here do. Afterall, they gave us the teddy bear to corrupt everyone with the evil democracy, it's a conspiracy of the US............

what do you want LI forum members to do? would you like me to invade Sudan?

[Whatsthepoint]

Poor woman. Her life will most probably never be the same again.

[Omar_Mukhtar]

You know, the majority in that crowd aren't exactly gonna sit down and rationalise the situation fully. I doubt they will read the entire story and come to a logical conclusion regarding it. Furthermore, I bet there's already many versions of this littlr story. I was speaking to a Muslim in London; who claimed he was happy with what Sudan is doing because the women named the prophet saw after a dog. Imagine someone in London been fed these stories, think about those in Sudan? If the local Clerics comes to their mosque angrily and tells them " infidels have insulted our religion, we must protest", then they will naturally take to the streets and protest. Even people who haven't read the story will just be told " they insulted us" and then they will take to the streets. Of course it is a small minority, but the minority always gets the headlines. And, if the minority is in the wrong, even then they won't back down from their ideological stance. I mean, those protestors aren't going to turn around and say " were sorry, we made a mistake and we fully apologise to the Britain. Even if they are taking the wrong action, who they are opposing( the devil west) is more important that" Peace!

[Fishman]

:omg:

Somebody in authority needs to ring up the dumb*** "cleric" spewing such idiocy and tell him to keep his ignorant, intolerant, 7th century mouth shut.

:sl:
I don't think that somebody in the 7th century could be as backward as these 'clerics'. Try 7th century BC...
:w:

[S_87]

hhmmm i bet theres more to it than what the media is reporting....

[Amadeus85]

Of course the whole situation is like taken from Monthy Pyton's Flying Circus and i hope that the woman would be allright.
From the other hand, i would like to notice that this situation shows us the strength and vitality of islam as a religion. I mean that the number of radicals (fundamentalists, orthodoxes) shows us the real strength of a religion. The more radicals, the stronger the religion is, the more dynamic.

[جوري]

News is only meant to be given in an inflammatory style with well defined protagonists and antagonists so as to evoke an emotion, sympathy,anger, hatred, whatever it is, has to be done in that old Greek theatre style, amplified so people in the last row can get the same feeling as those in the first...just the mere fact that the translation given doesn't concur with what is actually written is already leading me to believe, some war mongor wants to instigate a WWIII...

A picture is indeed worth a thousand words, I am just left wondering what those pictures are of or for?..

:w:

[chacha_jalebi]

my view :D

1st of all, anyone heard of sudan? NO :p

and 2ndly yeh, the woman blatantly aint got a clue, and it seems like her intention was not to cause harm, like the kid asked if he can name the teddy after himself

i think this is just a publicity stunt by sudan man, no wonder why the west wants to bomb us:mmokay: all muslims make mountains of molehills

[snakelegs]

Of course the whole situation is like taken from Monthy Pyton's Flying Circus and i hope that the woman would be allright.
From the other hand, i would like to notice that this situation shows us the strength and vitality of islam as a religion. I mean that the number of radicals (fundamentalists, orthodoxes) shows us the real strength of a religion. The more radicals, the stronger the religion is, the more dynamic.

these people aren't radicals - they're screwballs.
if you want to know islam's position on this issue read the fatwa that was posted in this section.

[Cognescenti]

Indeed we are here to learn...thus I fail to see what the cleric in Sudan has to do with 7th century Islam? Perhaps you can connect the dots for us so I can understand you better and 'insult' you less?

I am going to guess he didn't take a study-at-home course to become an imam.

He is probably a native Arabic speaker so I would surmise he studied the Quran and the Hadith in their native language. The Quran dates from the 7th century, does it not. Some of the Hadith took a while to collate but they are said to relate the utterances of the Prophet are they not?

Where else would he get his information? Is there a King James version I don't know about? Perhaps he is illiterate or lazy and relied upon an oral recitation? Perhaps he is just plain stupid or painfully unaware fo the outside world and is unable to bring context to his understanding so as to reconcile contradictory passages?

I don't disagree that he probably lacks subtlety, but he is in a position of authority and commands the respect of at least many hundreds directly. He may be stuck in the 7th Century or merely applying 7th Century language out of context but he is a serious embarrassment. Get rid of the idiot or send him to a refresher course. Take his batteries out of his loud speaker. Somebody on the Muslim "side" needs to sidle up next to the guy and make him an offer he can't refuse. The British government doesn't have that authority. So we don't have WWIII over something so completely idiotic just make him go away.

BTW, we all know (but some won't admit it) he isn't the only dinosaur with such ideas. The Taliban is full of them. They are absolutely Jurassic. Time for a house cleaning. That is you all's job.

[NoName55]

I toured parts of kashmir and punjab in 60s and visited many primary schools/madrasahs, where the "teacher" was almost always a former pupil.

some schools had 1 while others had a maximum of 3 teachers who themselves were barely able to read and write.

I doubt very much that sudan is any more affluent than Pakistan and can afford to employ university graduates.

keep robbing and exploiting them then moan that they are ignorant, ok! what a stupid world!

[Cognescenti]

I toured parts of kashmir and punjab in 60s and visited many primary schools/madrasahs, where the "teacher" was almost always a former pupil.

some schools had 1 while others had a maximum of 3 teachers who themselves were barely able to read and write.

I doubt very much that sudan is any more affluent than Pakistan and can afford to employ university graduates.

keep robbing and exploiting them then moan that they are ignorant, ok! what a stupid world!

You may be right about his "training" which was probably funded by some Saudi benefactor.

I don't think you can blame poverty in Sudan on the US or European colonialsim or even past Arabic slave trading. If this guy is any example of the leadership then you have the answer you need.

[NoName55]

this is one of the worst moderated forums I have ever had the misfortune to come accross!

in-fact it is a distorters paradise.

one Mod is expected to deal with all this trash, boggles the mind as to the real objective of this site where reason and logic have no chance.

[جوري]

I am going to guess he didn't take a study-at-home course to become an imam.

Who here knows anything about this man's upbringing?

He is probably a native Arabic speaker so I would surmise he studied the Quran and the Hadith in their native language. The Quran dates from the 7th century, does it not. Some of the Hadith took a while to collate but they are said to relate the utterances of the Prophet are they not?

Sure, but what does that have to do with this cleric?

Where else would he get his information? Is there a King James version I don't know about? Perhaps he is illiterate or lazy and relied upon an oral recitation? Perhaps he is just plain stupid or painfully unaware fo the outside world and is unable to bring context to his understanding so as to reconcile contradictory passages?

I haven't come across anything in the Quran or sunna that asks people to burn others at the stake for defamation...

on forgiveness alone
Database Search Results

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The query [forgiveness] generated the following matches:

Complete Sahih Bukhari

001.002.055 001.004.211 001.008.388 001.008.436 001.008.466 001.011.620 001.011.628 002.018.167 002.021.246 002.023.359 002.023.412 002.023.442 002.023.447 003.034.330 003.034.335 003.043.648 003.048.829 005.058.220 005.058.223 005.059.394 005.059.462 005.059.546 005.059.588 005.059.597 005.059.612 005.059.702 006.060.027 006.060.046 006.060.089 006.060.164 006.060.166 006.060.167 006.060.171 006.060.172 006.060.192 006.060.193 006.060.194 006.060.197 006.060.199 006.060.212 006.060.274 006.060.295 006.060.494 007.070.570 007.072.688 008.074.272 008.075.318 008.075.319 008.075.333 008.075.335 008.078.661 009.083.020 009.083.028 009.092.389 009.093.485 009.093.586

Complete Sahih Muslim

001.0142 001.0228 002.0507 004.0982 004.0984 004.0986 004.1226 004.1656 004.1657 004.1658 004.1660 004.1695 004.1789 004.2126 004.2127 004.2129 004.2130 005.2199 017.4188 017.4202 017.4205 019.4352 019.4450 026.5557 030.5793 030.5800 031.5904 031.6087 031.6092 031.6099 031.6100 031.6170 031.6172 035.6505 035.6522 035.6563 037.6621 037.6622 037.6642 037.6670 037.6673 038.6677 038.6691 039.6717 039.6720 039.6762 043.7167

Partial Sunan Abu Dawud

001.0030 002.0515 003.0765 008.1422 008.1484 020.3174 020.3215 021.3259 025.3634 038.4405 039.4488 041.4757 041.5056 041.5123 041.5177 041.5192

Complete Malik's Muwatta

007.7.1.3 015.15.8.30 022.22.5.10 029.29.7.22
http://www.usc.edu/cgi-bin/msasearch

I don't disagree that he probably lacks subtlety, but he is in a position of authority and commands the respect of at least many hundreds directly. He may be stuck in the 7th Century or merely applying 7th Century language out of context but he is a serious embarrassment. Get rid of the idiot or send him to a refresher course. Take his batteries out of his loud speaker. Somebody on the Muslim "side" needs to sidle up next to the guy and make him an offer he can't refuse. The British government doesn't have that authority. So we don't have WWIII over something so completely idiotic just make him go away.

I agree, although, I don't know what anyone on this forum can do?

BTW, we all know (but some won't admit it) he isn't the only dinosaur with such ideas. The Taliban is full of them. They are absolutely Jurassic. Time for a house cleaning. That is you all's job.

I can't judge a whole lotta of people based on media or bush's and cronies views... if anything just to be totally objective, people who tend to be crazy and have horrible moronic personality disorders make up only 10-15 percent of any population and that is the natural distribution, 10-15 in Oahu, 10-15 in Saskatchewan, 10-15 in afghanistan.. I don't believe them to be solely clustered there....

I pray that there are still normal people in this country who don't give in to every propaganda.. it is becoming like a bad case of rabies and a global phenomenon at that..


peace!

[Cognescenti]

this is one of the worst moderated forums I have ever had the misfortune to come accross!

in-fact it is a distorters paradise.

one Mod is expected to deal with all this trash, boggles the mind as to the real objective of this site where reason and logic have no chance.

Who is it you want to get rid of? <looks nevously side to side>

[Tania]

this is one of the worst moderated forums I have ever had the misfortune to come accross!

in-fact it is a distorters paradise.

one Mod is expected to deal with all this trash, boggles the mind as to the real objective of this site where reason and logic have no chance.

Opposite i think its very good moderate. :) In a forum everyone should have the right to express his point of view and if you disagree you could ask for evidence (source). If the mods would delete each post in which is another opinion, that would not be a conversation forum.

[Keltoi]

I think it has been fairly well established now that this incident is fabricated outrage by the Sudanese government. What they hope to gain from it I have no idea, but it seems fairly obvious that this situation isn't caused by any legitimate Islamic law.

[chosen]

I feel for that teacher..thousands calling for her death..her injust sentance should be nullified and she should be removed from the sudan as soon as possible..these nuts are out of control and sincerley want this women dead..I would be concerned about them finding out what prison she is in and bombing it...this is just not a normal situation and these violent protestors have been whipped into a hysterical frenzy..

[Woodrow]

I think it has been fairly well established now that this incident is fabricated outrage by the Sudanese government. What they hope to gain from it I have no idea, but it seems fairly obvious that this situation isn't caused by any legitimate Islamic law.

I agree with that.

The fastest way for an entity to gain support of the populace is to identify a common problem or enemy. either real. perceived, or exaggerated. Once the populace finds that somebody is supporting them in their battle, they will become unified under that entity. Hitler, used that to his full advantage. hate organizations such as the KKK also use the same technique.

[Sarada]

Salaam Everyone,

I have just sent an email to the Sudanese Ambassador in Canada with a picture of a Teddy Bear named Muhammad, asking him to use his influence with his government to allow this woman safe passage back to her home

all the best,

sarada

p.s. the email address of the Sudanese Ambassador in Canada is :

sudanembassy-canada@rogers.com

I found it on the net

[Muslim Knight]

I agree with that.

The fastest way for an entity to gain support of the populace is to identify a common problem or enemy. either real. perceived, or exaggerated. Once the populace finds that somebody is supporting them in their battle, they will become unified under that entity. Hitler, used that to his full advantage. hate organizations such as the KKK also use the same technique.

Common for a government losing support because it failed to administer the populace correctly, having failed to solve issues, corruption issues, it will try to create something to divert the attention of the masses. One example is the threat of neo-colonization, invasion etc etc.

[qassy!]

Salam

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...9%2B%26fvi%3D1

Well.....I dont know what to say about this why are poeple taking the mick?

[------]

:salamext:

^^ Coz they are sad n pathetic, n need 2 get a life.

[Trumble]

^^ Coz they are sad n pathetic, n need 2 get a life.

If she sells many 20 quid teddy bears at that price she will be able to afford a life!

Seriously though, in fairness she says the money raised will be donated to a hospice. On the assumption she is as good as her word, I think that's about the only good likely to come from this whole ridiculous affair.

[Nabooly]

I wonder what her students are thinking right now :muddlehea

[mujahideenryder]

this is my take on the issue:
http://www.mujahideenryder.net/2007/...ar-protesters/

[sameer]

I think good sense prevailed here.


Teddy row teacher freed from jail

A UK teacher has been released and handed over to British officials in Sudan after being jailed for letting her class name a teddy bear Muhammad.


whole story : http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/7124447.stm

[czgibson]

Greetings,

Teddy row teacher freed from jail

Good news, although it does make the whole thing look even more like a publicity stunt. For whose benefit, I don't know.

Let's hope nobody tells the bloodthirsty protesters...

Peace

[Bittersteel]

it's good news that she has been freed but the whole thing had been a bad business.

[czgibson]

Greetings,

Here's an article from the Sunday Times about this topic and some of its implications by Shiraz Maher, who's famous for having left Hizb ut Tahrir. I don't know what the general opinion of him is here, but I think he talks a lot of sense. See what you think.

Source - The Sunday Times, 2nd December 2007

Peace

[JustMe]

Islam is supposed to be a religion of peace.

Demanding the execution of this teacher does not sound like peace to me.

Maybe all those who are demanding her execution should be executed.

Leave the world with just the peaceful Muslims.

[czgibson]

Greetings,

And so to the predictable backlash:

Islam is supposed to be a religion of peace.

Demanding the execution of this teacher does not sound like peace to me.

Believe it or not, it doesn't sound much like Islam either. This is one of the problems we are facing.

Maybe all those who are demanding her execution should be executed.

Leave the world with just the peaceful Muslims.

What a ludicrous idea. How peaceful do you think those Muslims would be after you had executed their brothers and sisters?

[Unless you were being ironic, in which case I would advise leaving irony at the door when having discussions like this, so you can be sure your meaning is clear.]

Peace

[aamirsaab]

:sl:
Seeing as the issue has been resolved I see no reason to keep this thread open.