Iran hosts summit for terrorists

[MTAFFI]

So the US calls together many mid eastern countries to try and work out the issues between Palestine and Israel, almost everyone attends except Iran, and what is Irans response? Lets have those who are still launching rockets and provoking the other side come together and discuss ______ (you fill in the blank, mine was how to continue a pointless endless war... ):(

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20071127...tdiplomacyiran

Iran to host militants for 'alternative' Mideast meet 2 hours, 53 minutes ago

TEHRAN (AFP) - Iran said on Tuesday that it had invited Palestinian militant factions to a meeting in Tehran aimed at countering a US-hosted Middle East peace conference seeking to kickstart the peace process.

"These groups are planning to come to Tehran within the next week or two and they are all the Palestinian groups that are struggling for the freedom of their land," government spokesman Gholam Hossein Elham told reporters.

Iran is one of the most vocal backers of Palestinian militant groups like Hamas and Islamic Jihad and pledged millions of dollars in 2006 to the then Hamas government crippled by a Western aid cut.

The Islamic republic does not recognise Israel and its President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad has provoked outrage by calling for the Jewish state to be wiped off the map.

Elham indicated the Tehran meeting would be a riposte to the conference bringing together Israeli and Palestinian leaders which started in Annapolis outside Washington on Tuesday.

"It means that the Annapolis conference is not representing the Palestinians and not talking on their behalf, but on the contrary is moving against their rights," he said.

More than a dozen Arab countries, including Saudi Arabia and Iran's top regional ally Syria, have sent representatives, leaving Tehran conspicuously isolated.

On Monday Ahmadinejad told Saudi King Abdullah in a telephone call that he "wished" the kingdom was not taking part in the peace conference.

Tehran's arch foe Washington, which is hosting the meeting, dismissed the Iranian criticism as "not surprising," and charged that Tehran backs the extremists sidelined by the talks.

[MTAFFI]

Bump

[Keltoi]

Not surprising in the least. It is getting to the point of being childishly petty...if it wasn't so serious.

[islamirama]

Despite what you and usa says, under International law, any group fighting an occupying force is a legitimate group. Despite the labels given by the oppressors, every group fighting in palestine for liberation of palestine is a freedom fighter. Only countries to disagree with that are US and it's allies....

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[MTAFFI]

Despite what you and usa says, under International law, any group fighting an occupying force is a legitimate group. Despite the labels given by the oppressors, every group fighting in palestine for liberation of palestine is a freedom fighter. Only countries to disagree with that are US and it's allies....

No one is denying that they are a legitimate group, they are indeed a legitimate group. It is the kind of group that they are that did not get them invited to the summit. This summit was about how to bring peace to the Palestinian people and Hamas and Iran both openly declared yesterday that they would not allow it no matter what the outcome of the talks were, to me that is sad. Dont get me wrong, the Palestinians have suffered and deserve to be treated fairly and with dignity and Israel needs to give up some settlements and perhaps work out a way to at least share Jeruselum but how will this happen if you have a militant group (legitimate or not) threatening that they will never stop attacking?

[The_Prince]

hamas did say they are willing to make a truce with israel if israel hands back the west bank and east jerusalem.

[MTAFFI]

hamas did say they are willing to make a truce with israel if israel hands back the west bank and east jerusalem.

Do u have a link for that? From what I recall they said "We will call it a truce until we can build our army and infrastruture and then we plan on going back to war with you". To me that isnt much of a deal, besides read that link above, Hamas and Iran both said they would never allow peace as long as any of Israel still exists.

[islamirama]

No one is denying that they are a legitimate group, they are indeed a legitimate group. It is the kind of group that they are that did not get them invited to the summit. This summit was about how to bring peace to the Palestinian people and Hamas and Iran both openly declared yesterday that they would not allow it no matter what the outcome of the talks were, to me that is sad. Dont get me wrong, the Palestinians have suffered and deserve to be treated fairly and with dignity and Israel needs to give up some settlements and perhaps work out a way to at least share Jeruselum but how will this happen if you have a militant group (legitimate or not) threatening that they will never stop attacking?

yea the piece meal "peace conference" comes and goes with nothing but mockery of the palestinians. Abbas is one of their goons, i don't see any representative of the Palestinians in that piece meal conference. I think this guy sums it up pretty good about the whole situation...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A575gyQnBxA

[MTAFFI]

yea the piece meal "peace conference" comes and goes with nothing but mockery of the palestinians. Abbas is one of their goons, i don't see any representative of the Palestinians in that piece meal conference. I think this guy sums it up pretty good about the whole situation...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A575gyQnBxA

Abbas doesnt represent the West Bank but the rest of Palestine seems happy with him. Also I dont think his is a "goon" at all, at least he is trying to get his country out of oppression and misery. What is Hamas accomplishing? More oppression and more war, they simply dont have the capacity to win a war against Israel right now. If they wish to attend one of these conferences and give their two cents they must agree to a peace treaty, and agree to work towards a solution through non violent means, otherwise they are looked at as the goons and just another terrorist organization.

[islamirama]

Abbas doesnt represent the West Bank but the rest of Palestine seems happy with him. Also I dont think his is a "goon" at all, at least he is trying to get his country out of oppression and misery. What is Hamas accomplishing? More oppression and more war, they simply dont have the capacity to win a war against Israel right now. If they wish to attend one of these conferences and give their two cents they must agree to a peace treaty, and agree to work towards a solution through non violent means, otherwise they are looked at as the goons and just another terrorist organization.

Funny, i don't recall him winning the election last year? You have it backwards buddy, Hamas had been trying to save the palestinians to live with dignity and this would've been easy had the west recognized them as the rightful leaders after the elections, elections that west was so badly crying about thinking hamas would loose in democracy. There is no peace treaty, only piece meals of palestine. Going to a meeting is useless when no one will listen to you and they only having these piece meals to show the world that they are doing something about it.

Did you not watch the video i gave you?

[sudais1]

Point 1. Don't call them terrorists, their resistance fighters.

Palestine is a Muslim country and not 1 inch can be given to Israel. If Israel is the size of a nail then it is to big. Everything there doing is illegal. Why don't Israel go to Washington and build and homeland their. We don't need their troubles and their disgusting behavior

On Topic.

Annapolis is the most useless peace conference on earth. Their will never be peace for as long as Israel exists on Muslim lands. I hope people understand that by getting "peace" then we would be forced to give up land. We won't give anything up to Israel or any non Muslims

[Cognescenti]

Point 1. Don't call them terrorists, their resistance fighters.

Palestine is a Muslim country and not 1 inch can be given to Israel. If Israel is the size of a nail then it is to big. Everything there doing is illegal. Why don't Israel go to Washington and build and homeland their. We don't need their troubles and their disgusting behavior

On Topic.

Annapolis is the most useless peace conference on earth. Their will never be peace for as long as Israel exists on Muslim lands. I hope people understand that by getting "peace" then we would be forced to give up land. We won't give anything up to Israel or any non Muslims

Sudais;

Did you get one of those cool new GPS receivers for Ramadan?

Just curious, what do the numbers say?

[wilberhum]

Iran hosts summit for terrorists

Reminds me of an old saying. "Birds of a feather.........."

[MTAFFI]

Funny, i don't recall him winning the election last year? You have it backwards buddy, Hamas had been trying to save the palestinians to live with dignity and this would've been easy had the west recognized them as the rightful leaders after the elections, elections that west was so badly crying about thinking hamas would loose in democracy. There is no peace treaty, only piece meals of palestine. Going to a meeting is useless when no one will listen to you and they only having these piece meals to show the world that they are doing something about it.

Did you not watch the video i gave you?

I dont have it backwards at all, I know who won the election, I am not saying that them not ruling all of Palestine is right, I am saying they only control the Gaza, and that is simply the facts on the ground. Fatah is the ruling party for the West Bank, do you see any evidence that would show otherwise? I dont, it was a spat between the two parties and now one controls part and the other controls the other part. Simple, so now that this has been established, maybe the Israelis are negotiating to resolve issues with only the west bank, since that is what Abbas controls.

I saw the video, if I posted one on Youtube could I then quote myself and have it hold any weight on the situation?

[MTAFFI]

Point 1. Don't call them terrorists, their resistance fighters.

Palestine is a Muslim country and not 1 inch can be given to Israel. If Israel is the size of a nail then it is to big. Everything there doing is illegal. Why don't Israel go to Washington and build and homeland their. We don't need their troubles and their disgusting behavior

On Topic.

Annapolis is the most useless peace conference on earth. Their will never be peace for as long as Israel exists on Muslim lands. I hope people understand that by getting "peace" then we would be forced to give up land. We won't give anything up to Israel or any non Muslims

Here is the point I think you are missing, Jews settled in this land and they had every right to, the Palestinians (formerly known as Jordanians) left the land because of the obvious impending attack from the neighboring Arab countries. The people of Israel defended themselves and guess what... they won, so therefore it is their land, just as it became Muslim land when they conquered it last. So it will be, you can fight and fight and fight but guess what, the Israelis arent being effected by it, only the people of Palestine are, so in essence they are oppressing themselves, kind of ironic isnt it? The more they fight, the more they loose to Israeli settlements and ceased land. Dont you see that a peace deal is the only way forward? Why are you so consumed with war? It is only land and if there were peace the Palestinians could come and go just as the jews originally did, and who knows maybe in a couple hundred years they could conquer it again. Either way, what they are doing now is self destruction and I am beginning to lose sympathy for them. (Hamas at least)

[Trumble]

Simple, so now that this has been established, maybe the Israelis are negotiating to resolve issues with only the west bank, since that is what Abbas controls.

It might start that way, although like everybody else I'm pessimistic about the chance of success. Should a deal be reached, though, including real concessions by Israel regarding dismantlement of settlements and such, it would end up including Gaza as well almost by default. Hamas would just become an irrelevance. They would not win an election on the "there will never be peace for as long as Israel exists on Muslim lands" principle when there was a deal acceptable to Fatah and most of the Arab world on the table; the people of Gaza just aren't that stupid. It's unlikely in such a situation they would actually hold an election, of course, but they wouldn't survive long with any sort of power either way.

[islamirama]

Here is the point I think you are missing, Jews settled in this land and they had every right to, the Palestinians (formerly known as Jordanians) left the land because of the obvious impending attack from the neighboring Arab countries. The people of Israel defended themselves and guess what... they won, so therefore it is their land, just as it became Muslim land when they conquered it last. So it will be, you can fight and fight and fight but guess what, the Israelis arent being effected by it, only the people of Palestine are, so in essence they are oppressing themselves, kind of ironic isnt it? The more they fight, the more they loose to Israeli settlements and ceased land. Dont you see that a peace deal is the only way forward? Why are you so consumed with war? It is only land and if there were peace the Palestinians could come and go just as the jews originally did, and who knows maybe in a couple hundred years they could conquer it again. Either way, what they are doing now is self destruction and I am beginning to lose sympathy for them. (Hamas at least)

Lets get a few facts straight here...

Initially Jews were led to this land by Moses and were told to fight the inhabitants and take land (cuz the inhabitants were ungrateful to Allah). They refused to fight and said you go fight with your Lord as your helper moses. For this they wondered the deserts among other reasons. When younger generation grew up with stronger faith, they fought and got that land.

In course of time that land fell into many hands as do all lands, empires rise and fall you know. And that is fine i guess. But what we have in recent times is not a war but a war crime. These people were killed in germany by the germans and the world comes and steals the land from palestinians and gives it to them. Now that is outright injustice.

As for israel defending itself after it's creation. It lost, big time. Egypt had defeated it and were to about to take over when US sent their OWN bombers and bombed every living creature on the land. Israel didn't defeat anyone, it was the US who massacred those arabs. My source? an old Egyptian soldier who eyewitness his dead brothers as far as the eye could see and US planes above with their relentless bombing to save israel. So they didn't win, nor is it there land nor will it ever be.

Anyways, i'm all up for peace deals if they were a bit realistic. I don't want abbas's peace deals, they are nothing more than piece deals. I"m all for 2 state if israel obeys UN 68+ resolutions it violates, return the ceased land, dismantle illegal settlements, return to original land given to them and accept palestine as independent state to do whatever they want without any of israel interference. That is the only peace deal that will hold over there. Of course i agree to this only because they will stay there till their time comes as foretold.

[sudais1]

Here is the point I think you are missing, Jews settled in this land and they had every right to, the Palestinians (formerly known as Jordanians) left the land because of the obvious impending attack from the neighboring Arab countries. The people of Israel defended themselves and guess what... they won, so therefore it is their land, just as it became Muslim land when they conquered it last. So it will be, you can fight and fight and fight but guess what, the Israelis arent being effected by it, only the people of Palestine are, so in essence they are oppressing themselves, kind of ironic isnt it? The more they fight, the more they loose to Israeli settlements and ceased land. Dont you see that a peace deal is the only way forward? Why are you so consumed with war? It is only land and if there were peace the Palestinians could come and go just as the jews originally did, and who knows maybe in a couple hundred years they could conquer it again. Either way, what they are doing now is self destruction and I am beginning to lose sympathy for them. (Hamas at least)

MTAFFI it dosen't matter if you lose sympathy because you'll have no affect on the outcome. We will win the war and the war will not end until there are no more Zionists left there. Every government in the middle east is about to fall Islamic governments. Once that change is done we will struggle until then, and then after that Israel will be wiped off the map. Then you can go establish them in Washington where there loved

[wilberhum]

Sudais1
Could iI venture a guess and say "you'll have no affect on the outcome".

And does not having an affect invalidate an openion?

[snakelegs]

what's wrong with iran having a counter-summit? both are stage shows.
i don't think there is any real desire for peace on either side.

[MTAFFI]

Lets get a few facts straight here...

Initially Jews were led to this land by Moses and were told to fight the inhabitants and take land (cuz the inhabitants were ungrateful to Allah). They refused to fight and said you go fight with your Lord as your helper moses. For this they wondered the deserts among other reasons. When younger generation grew up with stronger faith, they fought and got that land.

In course of time that land fell into many hands as do all lands, empires rise and fall you know. And that is fine i guess. But what we have in recent times is not a war but a war crime. These people were killed in germany by the germans and the world comes and steals the land from palestinians and gives it to them. Now that is outright injustice.

War crime? I am not so sure, was it a war crime when they were taken before, if so what makes it right then and not now? Now lets also take note to the fact that what germany was doing was actually in relation to Palestine since the Ottoman Empire sided with the Germans and ultimately lost the land to the British giving them the power to do with what they wish with the land. So no it was injustice it was a war which effectively ended the Nazi empire and the ottoman empire and every other one that sided on that side of the fence. (World War 1, there are plenty of documentaries and video footage to visually and mentally prove all of this to you, without political agenda)

As for israel defending itself after it's creation. It lost, big time. Egypt had defeated it and were to about to take over when US sent their OWN bombers and bombed every living creature on the land. Israel didn't defeat anyone, it was the US who massacred those arabs. My source? an old Egyptian soldier who eyewitness his dead brothers as far as the eye could see and US planes above with their relentless bombing to save israel. So they didn't win, nor is it there land nor will it ever be.

You have the word of one embarrassed degraded egyptian soldier, the rest of the world has all of the documentation and events of the war, Israel not only defeated these nations once but then a second time as well. They won a war for their land, the neighboring Arabs have not only not excepted it but they even deny it in their text books despite the extensive evidence that clearly shows otherwise. Denial doesnt make it true however.

Anyways, i'm all up for peace deals if they were a bit realistic. I don't want abbas's peace deals, they are nothing more than piece deals. I"m all for 2 state if israel obeys UN 68+ resolutions it violates, return the ceased land, dismantle illegal settlements, return to original land given to them and accept palestine as independent state to do whatever they want without any of israel interference. That is the only peace deal that will hold over there. Of course i agree to this only because they will stay there till their time comes as foretold.

I am kind of with you on this as far as giving back seized land in the 6 day war, dismantling settlements and recognizing palestine and allowing them to live un-interfered with, however a deal must be made over Jeruselum as well that would allow both to have access.

[MTAFFI]

MTAFFI it dosen't matter if you lose sympathy because you'll have no affect on the outcome. We will win the war and the war will not end until there are no more Zionists left there. Every government in the middle east is about to fall Islamic governments. Once that change is done we will struggle until then, and then after that Israel will be wiped off the map. Then you can go establish them in Washington where there loved

OK cool with me, I dont care really either way, if they can take back Israel then that is great, but my point is they surely are not doing it now and they are only making trouble for themselves, so why not live in peace until the time comes you speak of, it certainly isnt today or even in the near future it doesnt seem

[islamirama]

War crime? I am not so sure, was it a war crime when they were taken before, if so what makes it right then and not now? Now lets also take note to the fact that what germany was doing was actually in relation to Palestine since the Ottoman Empire sided with the Germans and ultimately lost the land to the British giving them the power to do with what they wish with the land. So no it was injustice it was a war which effectively ended the Nazi empire and the ottoman empire and every other one that sided on that side of the fence. (World War 1, there are plenty of documentaries and video footage to visually and mentally prove all of this to you, without political agenda)

Zionists sided with hitler as well, did you know that? they helped hitler kill jews so world would feel sorry for the jews. You have to understand that Jews are judaism are a religion, and zionists and zionism is political group, an extremists one at at that (like KKK). And israeli wars were won with aid of US and weapons of US, without which it would not exist today nor would've it had survived those days.

You have the word of one embarrassed degraded egyptian soldier, the rest of the world has all of the documentation and events of the war, Israel not only defeated these nations once but then a second time as well. They won a war for their land, the neighboring Arabs have not only not excepted it but they even deny it in their text books despite the extensive evidence that clearly shows otherwise. Denial doesnt make it true however.

He is an Islamic scholar these days and i trust his word over the lies of the kuffars who have shown their true colors time after time. Study Islamic History (and other easter countries) and american history, you'll see the amount of lies and fake history americans have been learning thru out decades.

Anyways, i agree with you that the palestinians should make a peace agreement for now so they can at least live in peace and their youths live long enough to build strong army to fight back. Of course, that means Israel must obey UN Resolutions do as i stated before in order for peace to really have a chance.

what's wrong with iran having a counter-summit? both are stage shows.
i don't think there is any real desire for peace on either side.

I think that about sums it all ...

[Trumble]

. Once that change is done we will struggle until then, and then after that Israel will be wiped off the map.

The only draw-back with that little scheme is that with the Israelis and Iranians both having nuclear weapons every country between the two will be probably be "wiped off the map" as well. I guess that and several million dead people would be a small price to pay to return a radioactive slag-heap to 'Islamic' control, hmmm ?

[MTAFFI]

what's wrong with iran having a counter-summit? both are stage shows.
i don't think there is any real desire for peace on either side.

agreed, with first 2 but the third i do believe they go with an intention to resolve the conflict but then again I could be wrong

[islamirama]

The only draw-back with that little scheme is that with the Israelis and Iranians both having nuclear weapons every country between the two will be probably be "wiped off the map" as well. I guess that and several million dead people would be a small price to pay to return a radioactive slag-heap to 'Islamic' control, hmmm ?

as much as everyone loves quoting the Iranian president on "wiping of the map", many don't even know what that means. Look at the map before 1948 and post 1948, palestine has been wiped of the map by zionists and their allies. Muslims will undo that inshallah and wipe israel off and put palestine back on the map. No one is talking about nuking the place, that wouldn't be wise for either side.

[sudais1]

The only draw-back with that little scheme is that with the Israelis and Iranians both having nuclear weapons every country between the two will be probably be "wiped off the map" as well. I guess that and several million dead people would be a small price to pay to return a radioactive slag-heap to 'Islamic' control, hmmm ?

not really. If Iran, Syria, and Egypt all launched Ballistic missiles at Tel Aviv then the causalities and the damage would do way too much to Israel to even respond. Remember Iran have 11000 ballistic missiles targeted on Tel aviv and Syria Egypt also have many more. Hezbollah would fight in the North and Hamas in the South. The sheer number of the Muslim forces would be too much for Israel and then it's all over. :D

[MTAFFI]

not really. If Iran, Syria, and Egypt all launched Ballistic missiles at Tel Aviv then the causalities and the damage would do way too much to Israel to even respond. Remember Iran have 11000 ballistic missiles targeted on Tel aviv and Syria Egypt also have many more. Hezbollah would fight in the North and Hamas in the South. The sheer number of the Muslim forces would be too much for Israel and then it's all over.

yes so why havent they already done it?

[wilberhum]

not really. If Iran, Syria, and Egypt all launched Ballistic missiles at Tel Aviv then the causalities and the damage would do way too much to Israel to even respond. Remember Iran have 11000 ballistic missiles targeted on Tel aviv and Syria Egypt also have many more. Hezbollah would fight in the North and Hamas in the South. The sheer number of the Muslim forces would be too much for Israel and then it's all over. :D

I guess you should orginize the next war. :hmm:

Every time those countries have tried they got there butz kicked.
:giggling:

[sudais1]

I guess you should orginize the next war. :hmm:

Every time those countries have tried they got there butz kicked.
:giggling:

lool I know they did. But a surprise attack on Tel Aviv would be too much for them.

Plus they didn't lose it was US who helped them :X

[sudais1]

yes so why havent they already done it?

In Syria and Egypt it's the governments. There in turmoil and there pro western but now there very weak in both countries and there soon to be overthrown. Iran is ready and is just preparing it's self. Because you know that Israel will attack Iran or the U.S will and Iran is just waiting patiently before they unleash 11000 missiles on Tel Aviv

[MTAFFI]

lool I know they did. But a surprise attack on Tel Aviv would be too much for them.

again so why dont they just do it and take the land back? :?

Plus they didn't lose it was US who helped them :X

Prove it :D

You know they say denial is a prime indicator of embarrassment

[wilberhum]

lool I know they did. But a surprise attack on Tel Aviv would be too much for them.

Plus they didn't lose it was US who helped them :X

But we know who lost.

But I don't understand, children making war plans.

Why doesn't anyone want peace?

[MTAFFI]

In Syria and Egypt it's the governments. There in turmoil and there pro western but now there very weak in both countries and there soon to be overthrown. Iran is ready and is just preparing it's self. Because you know that Israel will attack Iran or the U.S will and Iran is just waiting patiently before they unleash 11000 missiles on Tel Aviv

lol.... I find it funny how many muslims on this board take so much pride in Iran for their anti western rhetoric...lol.. A country of Shia are going to destroy Israel by "unleashing 11,000 missles"... :uuh:

[Whatsthepoint]

In Syria and Egypt it's the governments. There in turmoil and there pro western but now there very weak in both countries and there soon to be overthrown. Iran is ready and is just preparing it's self. Because you know that Israel will attack Iran or the U.S will and Iran is just waiting patiently before they unleash 11000 missiles on Tel Aviv

It's always the governments...and the west, the kuffars, the pope...
Do you think Israel keeps its fire in Tel Aviv?
And I don't think any of the countries you mention is willing to face the US and the rest of the Israeli allies who would join the combat if Israel proved to be too weak to handle the Arabs by itself.

[Amadeus85]

I think that freedom fighters are those who would fight with occupant army, and who have enough honour to die rather than to kill deliberately occupant's civilians.So someone stops being freedom fighter when he targets children,women and other non- military people.He became terrorist/criminal then.

[Cognescenti]

Lets get a few facts straight here...

As for israel defending itself after it's creation. It lost, big time. Egypt had defeated it and were to about to take over when US sent their OWN bombers and bombed every living creature on the land. Israel didn't defeat anyone, it was the US who massacred those arabs. My source? an old Egyptian soldier who eyewitness his dead brothers as far as the eye could see and US planes above with their relentless bombing to save israel. So they didn't win, nor is it there land nor will it ever be.....

I am beginning to have the slightest twitch of concern that NoName may be right. You may be having sport with us. It is difficult to get my mind around the concept that anyone could really believe what you just said. It is just so preposterous on so many levels.

An "old Egyptian soldier" told you this??? Did he also tell you where the secret stash of gold looted by the IDF from Egyptian Pyramids is to be found?

[Trumble]

I am beginning to have the slightest twitch of concern that NoName may be right. You may be having sport with us. It is difficult to get my mind around the concept that anyone could really believe what you just said. It is just so preposterous on so many levels.

The history of this little fantasy is easy enough to research. It didn't take long even for the Egyptians to admit it was complete rubbish, not least because even the other Arab nations didn't believe a word of it.

As to that "surprise attack on Tel Aviv" nobody, least of all the Iranians, is foolish enough to believe it could neutralize the entire Israeli nuclear weapons capability. What it would be far more likely to do is make them angry enough to use it.

[wilberhum]

I am beginning to have the slightest twitch of concern that NoName may be right. You may be having sport with us. It is difficult to get my mind around the concept that anyone could really believe what you just said. It is just so preposterous on so many levels.

An "old Egyptian soldier" told you this??? Did he also tell you where the secret stash of gold looted by the IDF from Egyptian Pyramids is to be found?

I would not question that he believes that.

Any thing that makes the US, (Where he lives :-\) look bad,
is instantly accepted.

He hates the US so much he will believe anything.

[mark1234]

the only reson why you side with palestine is because they are muslims, if it were the other way around you would support the other side. you would say theyve got every right to be there. its nice that you all stick together but be reasonable!!

[The_Prince]

lol.... I find it funny how many muslims on this board take so much pride in Iran for their anti western rhetoric...lol.. A country of Shia are going to destroy Israel by "unleashing 11,000 missles"... :uuh:

its funny you seem to think that sunnis and shias actually hate each other.

you think whats going in iraq is a general trend amongst all Muslims? why in UAE sunnis and shias live in peace, the same in lebanon, bahrain, and even saudia!

the shia sunni fighting in iraq exploded after USA went in, hmmmmmmm is that a coincidence that suddenly when the USA entered all hell broke loose between the 2?

so dont fool yourself into this shia-sunni issue, most sunnis in the mid-east admire ahmedinijad and his stance......

and number 2 i live in a muslim country, arab one, i see it with my own eyes that most arabs and sunnis dont have a problem with shias. it is the divide and conquer strategy to pit shias and sunnis together because israel and usa knows a join shia-sunni force in the mid-east would destroy their interests and plans.............

so plz dont generalize the issue in iraq as a trend amongst all shias and sunnis.

infact the 'shia' 'sunni' fighting in iraq isnt even a real civil war, it is only a few groups carrying out the fighting for political gains, nothing to do with different beliefs, and it isnt the wide-spread civillians fighting each other.

so your completly wrong in your WHOLE point. shia and sunnis will eventually unite to fight their sole and common enemy, israel, who have killed both sunnis and shias. we already see shia iran allies with suni hamas and other sunni groups :)

[Keltoi]

I've seen enough anti-Shia rhetoric on this site alone to know there are divisions there. However, no sectarian issues can be discussed anyway.

As for why the Sunni and Shia are fighting in Iraq(or were), it is directly as a result of the Zarqawi bombing of the mosque. It was a part of the Al-Qaeda strategy to sew the seeds of civil war in Iraq. The U.S. "plot" was the exact opposite, which was stability in order to get the heck out of there.

[wilberhum]

The_Prince
Now that's an interesting version of reality.

[sudais1]

It's always the governments...and the west, the kuffars, the pope...
Do you think Israel keeps its fire in Tel Aviv?
And I don't think any of the countries you mention is willing to face the US and the rest of the Israeli allies who would join the combat if Israel proved to be too weak to handle the Arabs by itself.

Please lad. The Mighty U.S army blah blah. You lads can't even get an exit strategy together or fight one country (Iraq) Imagine fighting like 5 or when we establish khilafah you'll fight 50 countries.

On to other posts

Any who The Western Governments in the Muslims world are so pathetic right now that an animal or goat would beat them. But once we get our Islamic governments then it's all over for Israel. The sheer number of Muslims would be to hard to handle for Israel and the United States. Good Lord 38 nations are losing to the Taliban is Afghanistan. Don't give me no crap like "oh you don't want to face us" because The mujahideen are kicking the U.S Marines behind and NATO's behind.

[sudais1]

But we know who lost.

But I don't understand, children making war plans.

Why doesn't anyone want peace?

I honestly want peace but Israel Can't be trusted. Also the U.S wants pro western governments but we want Islamic governments. They see Islamic governments as Terrorists and That Western Law should prevail. There Can never be peace unless We rule our selves the way we want and they do what they want. It's not difficult man. The Islamic masses want khilafah state and sharia but the U.S won't allow it so we will fight for it and they will fight against it. As long as the U.S fights against want we want then there can never be peace. When there is a true Islamic state then we are a very peace loving people and we still are but we won't stop the war until we get what we want for OUR people

[wilberhum]

honestly want peace but

There is always the "But" and it is all caused by the others.

You have no interest in peace, your only interest is victory.

[Cognescenti]

...Any who The Western Governments in the Muslims world are so pathetic right now that an animal or goat would beat them. But once we get our Islamic governments then it's all over for Israel. The sheer number of Muslims would be to hard to handle for Israel and the United States. Good Lord 38 nations are losing to the Taliban is Afghanistan. Don't give me no crap like "oh you don't want to face us" because The mujahideen are kicking the U.S Marines behind and NATO's behind.

Hmmmmm...has anyone actually seen Baghdad Bob recently? I wonder.

[wilberhum]

Hmmmmm...has anyone actually seen Baghdad Bob recently? I wonder.

Well done. But where is the Minister of Disinformation?
Do you think sudais1 is his reincarnation?

sudais1 does this look like you?

[Keltoi]

Oh man...that brought a laugh. :) Watching Baghdad Bob was like watching Saturday Night Live.

[MTAFFI]

its funny you seem to think that sunnis and shias actually hate each other.

you think whats going in iraq is a general trend amongst all Muslims? why in UAE sunnis and shias live in peace, the same in lebanon, bahrain, and even saudia!

the shia sunni fighting in iraq exploded after USA went in, hmmmmmmm is that a coincidence that suddenly when the USA entered all hell broke loose between the 2?

so dont fool yourself into this shia-sunni issue, most sunnis in the mid-east admire ahmedinijad and his stance......

and number 2 i live in a muslim country, arab one, i see it with my own eyes that most arabs and sunnis dont have a problem with shias. it is the divide and conquer strategy to pit shias and sunnis together because israel and usa knows a join shia-sunni force in the mid-east would destroy their interests and plans.............

so plz dont generalize the issue in iraq as a trend amongst all shias and sunnis.

infact the 'shia' 'sunni' fighting in iraq isnt even a real civil war, it is only a few groups carrying out the fighting for political gains, nothing to do with different beliefs, and it isnt the wide-spread civillians fighting each other.

so your completly wrong in your WHOLE point. shia and sunnis will eventually unite to fight their sole and common enemy, israel, who have killed both sunnis and shias. we already see shia iran allies with suni hamas and other sunni groups :)

Wow!! I love that, the words "sunni", "sectarian", "Iraq", "division", "civil war" none of it was even in my post! LOL LOL LOL I do love how you bring it up so defensive though.... However my point is that according to Islam the anti christ will arise in the region of Iran, and that Shia are not really Muslim according to the Sunni, do you wish to deny that? Or perhaps drive this whole post into a temper tantrum about your pent up frustration with this "division"

[MTAFFI]

Please lad. The Mighty U.S army blah blah. You lads can't even get an exit strategy together or fight one country (Iraq) Imagine fighting like 5 or when we establish khilafah you'll fight 50 countries.

On to other posts

Any who The Western Governments in the Muslims world are so pathetic right now that an animal or goat would beat them. But once we get our Islamic governments then it's all over for Israel. The sheer number of Muslims would be to hard to handle for Israel and the United States. Good Lord 38 nations are losing to the Taliban is Afghanistan. Don't give me no crap like "oh you don't want to face us" because The mujahideen are kicking the U.S Marines behind and NATO's behind.

lol.... I have to wonder, have you been visiting the poppy fields in Helmand? :happy:

[Trumble]

we still are but we won't stop the war until we get what we want for OUR people

And they won't stop it until they get what they want for theirs...

Peace generally involves compromise and a willingness to accept the need for it... I'm afraid your position puts you firmly in the intolerant hate-monger camp, just the same as many of those you condemn.

Hopefully sanity will prevail on both sides and your ilk on both sides will marginalised and eventually forgotten.

[sudais1]

[QUOTE=Trumble;874537]And they won't stop it until they get what they want for theirs...

QUOTE]

This makes no sense whatsoever, Your proving my point indirectly. What do they want from Muslim lands....they want oil, resources, minerals etc... And they want to implement their western democracy on us. So basically your saying that the west won't stop fighting unless they stop Islamic law in the Islamic countries and take the resources from them. I'm saying the war won't stop until they leave our resources and our lands alone. Why are you so ignorant. All you keep saying is "peace peace peace" but you forget whats at stake. Islamic law is at stake, Our resources and capital are at stake, and Islam in itself is at stake because if we don't adopt western ways then they will keep invading our lands. You argument has no basis even in International law. The Americans always talk about freedom for all people but they are taking the freedom away from the Muslims who want Islamic law.

For the one who said I'm warmongering:

Since when has the fight for Freedom become warmongering. I hope you know the price at stake here is the freedom of Islamic people to choose their way of life and government. You can say what you want but we won't stop fighting until the Muslim lands are free of western influence. Everybody wants peace but yes I used but, only when our lands are ruled our way and yours your way. Is that such a hard request? We won't stop fighting until you leave us alone. end of discussion.

[Trumble]

This makes no sense whatsoever, Your proving my point indirectly. What do they want from Muslim lands....they want oil, resources, minerals etc... And they want to implement their western democracy on us. So basically your saying that the west won't stop fighting unless they stop Islamic law in the Islamic countries and take the resources from them. I'm saying the war won't stop until they leave our resources and our lands alone.

It probably makes no sense because you have lost the plot as to what is being talked about.

The topic is the Arab/Israeli problem. I draw your particular attention to that fact as it was an Arab/Israeli problem long before people, usually having nothing directly to do with it, insisted on turning it into a religious problem. For most of the conflicts history the major players on both sides were secular... and until recently very few of those killed were fighting in the name of 'Islam'.

Staying on topic, 'they' are therefore the Israelis, not the United States or some amorphous Western conglomerate as you seem to be suggesting. They don't have the slightest interest in spreading 'Western democracy' anywhere. What they want for their people is a hometo which they believe themselves entitled by by history and right of occupation. They are not going anywhere, and would die to defend that right and that home, and anyone who does not recognise that is a fool. Anyone who does recognise it, chooses to ignore it and advocates an ocean of (usually) other people's blood is an even bigger fool. The simple fact is that large parts (exactly how large is very open to debate) of that land are now, by any meaningful measure, 'theirs', not 'yours'.

[Bittersteel]

I am seriously losing interest in discussing ME politics.nothing ever changes there.NO PROGRESS at all.

[snakelegs]

I am seriously losing interest in discussing ME politics.nothing ever changes there.NO PROGRESS at all.

i agree with you. the ME i consider hopeless. neither side wants peace. they will dance forever and the blood will never stop running.

[Keltoi]

It will stop eventually, but I'm afraid the catalyst for peace will be a bloodbath.

[Cognescenti]

I am seriously losing interest in discussing ME politics.nothing ever changes there.NO PROGRESS at all.

Brother, ain't that the truth.

About the only place you could say there has been progress is in a formal peace treaty with Egypt and Jordan. That makes another Arab-Israeli war with conventional armies unlikley. Of course, there is no shortage of armed sub-national or trans-national groups willing to take up the baton. The claims and counter-claims go back literally thousands of years.

There are Arab states (like Saudi and Hussein's Iraq) that actually gained credibility by perpetuating the mess. Iran is clearly destabilizing things in its selfish move to be the regional power.

What a mess.

[MTAFFI]

[QUOTE=sudais1;874626]

And they won't stop it until they get what they want for theirs...

QUOTE]

This makes no sense whatsoever, Your proving my point indirectly. What do they want from Muslim lands....they want oil, resources, minerals etc... And they want to implement their western democracy on us. So basically your saying that the west won't stop fighting unless they stop Islamic law in the Islamic countries and take the resources from them. I'm saying the war won't stop until they leave our resources and our lands alone. Why are you so ignorant. All you keep saying is "peace peace peace" but you forget whats at stake. Islamic law is at stake, Our resources and capital are at stake, and Islam in itself is at stake because if we don't adopt western ways then they will keep invading our lands. You argument has no basis even in International law. The Americans always talk about freedom for all people but they are taking the freedom away from the Muslims who want Islamic law.

For the one who said I'm warmongering:

Since when has the fight for Freedom become warmongering. I hope you know the price at stake here is the freedom of Islamic people to choose their way of life and government. You can say what you want but we won't stop fighting until the Muslim lands are free of western influence. Everybody wants peace but yes I used but, only when our lands are ruled our way and yours your way. Is that such a hard request? We won't stop fighting until you leave us alone. end of discussion.

who is stopping this anyways? SA is a supposed islamic state as is Iran, no one is stopping you, you werent even being bothered with until afghanistan allowed a terrorist to take shelter and not give him up. That is the only reason the US is there now, we dont care about your oil and minerals, etc. We pay for them just fine, that what it is all about anyways right, just take a look at the saudis money and power.... and you speak of our government being corrupt.

[Cognescenti]

It will stop eventually, but I'm afraid the catalyst for peace will be a bloodbath.

It is a bloodbath already. What would be required would be a catastrophic bloodbath where one side is nearly "erased from the Earth".1







1. Attributed to Mr. Ahmedinajad, 2007 sometime.

[MTAFFI]

It will stop eventually, but I'm afraid the catalyst for peace will be a bloodbath.

Sometimes I wish it would just hurry up and come so we can get it over with already.

You know what strikes me as crazy, the land being fought over it isnt even all that great

[The Ruler]

:sl:

the only reson why you side with palestine is because they are muslims, if it were the other way around you would support the other side.

And the same goes to you, I suppose?

you would say theyve got every right to be there.

You see, even if all of a sudden, Palestine starts to attack the US, I'd say that they don't have any right to be there.

its nice that you all stick together but be reasonable!!

Why thank you, Mark. :-)

:w:

[sudais1]

I'm only going to say this once. There is no legitimate Islamic government in the world to the full use of it. And you may not worry about oil but If Saudi alone were to stop selling their oil to U.S then you guys would be in tatters. why do u think caused the 1974 oil crises in America. Prices rocketed just because king Faisal stopped selling oil then His brother from guess where was sent to assassinate him. Your only lying to yourself.

Stop bloody talking about terrorists, Terrorist that Terrorist this, thats all you people ever say. If you added all the terrorists in the world since 2001 Invasion Started then counted how many people died because of them it would not even equal quarter of what The Western Kufar states did. Somebody defends their land then he's a terrorist, Somebody fights for his religion then he's a terrorist. Thats the only word westerners use.


Nobody wants a bloodbath, how simple can this be, get our of land that doesn't belong to you. Somalia is not Ethiopia so get the hell out. how simple is that. You people make it seem like the craziest thing ever. There's an unwanted country in our land. Get out of our land. Now all you kufr people start saying well get out of Sweden, England etc.... Which Muslim army is there. Many Christians live in peace in Muslim countries. Why can't we just have peace. Everybody live on their own land. War is very tiring but you people don't understand the concept of resistance. Their can only be peace when our land is rid of armies that have invaded. Imagine how far we would be technologically if there was no war and countries weren't invading others. We'll live our way you live your way and we'll live in peace. These "fake" Muslim countries can't be trusted to protect the Ummah so we need a khaleef to protect us. We don't want western ideologies. We ruled most of the known world for almost 1200 hundred years under Islamic law and we were the superpower then guess what happens with Western Democracy, we break up into pity states that are so corrupt. It's very simple, We want to live in a certain way, If you stop us from living our lives the way ordained for us then we will fight you. If you bring your armies here we'll send them back in different conditions.

[Trumble]

Nobody wants a bloodbath, how simple can this be, get our of land that doesn't belong to you. Somalia is not Ethiopia so get the hell out. how simple is that. You people make it seem like the craziest thing ever. There's an unwanted country in our land. Get out of our land. Now all you kufr people start saying well get out of Sweden, England etc.... Which Muslim army is there. Many Christians live in peace in Muslim countries. Why can't we just have peace. Everybody live on their own land. War is very tiring but you people don't understand the concept of resistance. Their can only be peace when our land is rid of armies that have invaded.

It's not 'simple' because your apparent understanding of the conflicts is so simplistic. The Arab/Israeli problem aside it has nothing to do with 'land'. The whole 'resistance' thing is romantic fantasy. Western troops are not in Iraq or Afghanistan for 'land', they are desperate to get out of both places. In both countries, although Western military action certainly created the conditions of conflict, the struggle is an internal one for political power not 'land'. Nobody is fighting for their 'religion' either, or at least if they are it is only because puppet-masters use it as a tool to whip up enough gullible patsies to fight and die to achieve their ends.

In Somalia one faction is being assisted by Ethiopian forces. Nobody is pretending that help is being provided on an altruistic basis but nonetheless the Ethiopians have not 'invaded' Somalia or seized 'land'. They are supporting one faction over another and your gripe is simply that it is not the faction you support. If other countries sent a division or two to do the fighting for the Islamic Courts we wouldn't hear a peep.

As to what we were originally talking about, the whole Arab Israeli problem is that both sides believe land (the borders or which are debatable, and more importantly negotiable) to be theirs.

[sudais1]

The whole 'resistance' thing is romantic fantasy. Western troops are not in Iraq or Afghanistan for 'land', they are desperate to get out of both places. In both countries, although Western military action certainly created the conditions of conflict, the struggle is an internal one for political power not 'land'. Nobody is fighting for their 'religion' either, or at least if they are it is only because puppet-masters use it as a tool to whip up enough gullible patsies to fight and die to achieve their ends.

In Somalia one faction is being assisted by Ethiopian forces. Nobody is pretending that help is being provided on an altruistic basis but nonetheless the Ethiopians have not 'invaded' Somalia or seized 'land'. They are supporting one faction over another and your gripe is simply that it is not the faction you support. If other countries sent a division or two to do the fighting for the Islamic Courts we wouldn't hear a peep.

You have no Idea what is going on...

The Prophet (SAW) told us that their would come a time when Every Muslim leader would be a dictator and That Muslims would become oppressed in Iraq, That Afghanistan and Sham (Palestine & Lebanon) would become lands for jihad. You don't understand this one bit. The mujahideen aren't simply fighting to get the invaders out their fighting but the dictators also. The War in Iraq is a gift from God, Why? Because it took out the leader and now lets the mujahideen take control. Ask any Muslim in any country around the world. If the Muslim world was rid of dictators put there by the west during the British planned Arab Revolt against the Ottoman Caliphate then they they would love to go back. Muslim Countries are always better than western ones. Seville in the Islamic Age had no Rival. Dubai and Abu Dhabi today have no rival.

As In Somalia, the ICU is supported by the majority but once they tune a few things up then the whole of Somalia will be with them. If another country came to Somalia? loll, There are many Arab and Chechen Mujahideen fighting in Somalia, There are even Australians who are fighting there and Americans who teach them how to fight and make bombs! When a Nation Is a Muslim Country and Is not followed by the Nation name like "Caliphate" Then any Muslim can become a citizen, run office, become Caliph etc...


Every Muslim is fighting for their religion in Jihad. Bush and the Media were always trying to say "this is not against Islam" crap. But any war against a Muslim country is against Islam because it haram to surrender and hand span of land to Kufr Nations.

[Trumble]

The War in Iraq is a gift from God, Why? Because it took out the leader and now lets the mujahideen take control.

WHAT 'mujahideen'?! Who are they? Who exactly is "oppressed" and who is doing the oppressing? The assorted Sunni and Shia version of 'mujahideen' are quite happy killing each other in order to establish their own power base. The imported version of 'mujahideen' will quite happily slaughter anyone who doesn't agree with them; as here, now nobody wants to play their silly games any more.

A 'gift from God'? You don't think if God had anything to do with it he might have come up with a more elegant solution?!

[sudais1]

There are some people who claim to be Mujahideen but are not.

The Prophet gave us guidelines for war. among these are

Do not Attack at night. You will disturb a nursing mother
Do Not cut trees
Do not pollute water
Do not kill old men, woman, or children
Do not fight men whom practice religion peacefully
fight those only whom fight you

I condemn the actions of some so called mujahideen but the true ones never lose

[sudais1]

WHAT 'mujahideen'?! Who are they?

They are the greatest warriors on earth. They are holy fighters of Islam. but some claim to be mujahideen but aren't. A Mujahid is a very pious person and a respected person yet he is very fierce on the battle field.

A 'gift from God'? You don't think if God had anything to do with it he might have come up with a more elegant solution?!

Allah SWT tells us in the Quran that just because we say we believe doesn't mean we won't be tested. These times of tests and tribulations from the western media and all really bring out the true muslims from the munafiqs

Peace

[wilberhum]

There are some people who claim to be Mujahideen but are not.

The Prophet gave us guidelines for war. among these are

Do not Attack at night. You will disturb a nursing mother
Do Not cut trees
Do not pollute water
Do not kill old men, woman, or children
Do not fight men whom practice religion peacefully
fight those only whom fight you

I condemn the actions of some so called mujahideen but the true ones never lose

Too bad that fighting for a just cause is not included in the list.

[islamirama]

Too bad that fighting for a just cause is not included in the list.

190. And fight in the Way of Allâh those who fight you, but transgress not the limits. Truly, Allâh likes not the transgressors. [This Verse is the first one that was revealed in connection with Jihâd, but it was supplemented by another (V.9:36)]. "To those against whom war is made, permission is given (to defend themselves), because they are wronged - and verily, Allah is Most Powerful to give them victory - (they are) those who have been expelled from their homes in defiance of right - (for no cause) except that they say, 'Our Lord is Allah'.... " 22:39-40

"Fight in the cause of Allah against those who fight against you, but do not transgress limits. Lo! Allah loves not aggressors. ... And fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is for Allah. But if they desist, then let there be no hostility except against transgressors." 2:190,193

Based on above, all fights are legitimate and for "just cause" in Palestine, iraq, afghanistan, Somalia and other Muslims countries where the westerners are the outsiders and are the oppressors, occupiers, invaders and transgressors.

Only fights that are not "just cause" are the westerners who invade muslim lands to plunder their resources.


US deputy defence secretary - War for Oil
http://www.truthout.org/docs_03/060503A.shtml

Greenspan admits Iraq was about Oil
http://observer.guardian.co.uk/world...170237,00.html

US planned war in Afghanistan long before September 11
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2001/no...afgh-n20.shtml

America's Pipe Dream
http://www.counterpunch.org/monbiot2.html


Is an Oil Pipeline Behind the War in Afghanistan?
http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig/sardi7.html

[wilberhum]

190. And fight in the Way of Allâh those who fight you, but transgress not the limits. Truly, Allâh likes not the transgressors. [This Verse is the first one that was revealed in connection with Jihâd, but it was supplemented by another (V.9:36)]. "To those against whom war is made, permission is given (to defend themselves), because they are wronged - and verily, Allah is Most Powerful to give them victory - (they are) those who have been expelled from their homes in defiance of right - (for no cause) except that they say, 'Our Lord is Allah'.... " 22:39-40

"Fight in the cause of Allah against those who fight against you, but do not transgress limits. Lo! Allah loves not aggressors. ... And fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is for Allah. But if they desist, then let there be no hostility except against transgressors." 2:190,193

Based on above, all fights are legitimate and for "just cause" in Palestine, iraq, afghanistan, Somalia and other Muslims countries where the westerners are the outsiders and are the oppressors, occupiers, invaders and transgressors.

Only fights that are not "just cause" are the westerners who invade muslim lands to plunder their resources.


US deputy defence secretary - War for Oil
http://www.truthout.org/docs_03/060503A.shtml

Greenspan admits Iraq was about Oil
http://observer.guardian.co.uk/world...170237,00.html

US planned war in Afghanistan long before September 11
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2001/no...afgh-n20.shtml

America's Pipe Dream
http://www.counterpunch.org/monbiot2.html


Is an Oil Pipeline Behind the War in Afghanistan?
http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig/sardi7.html

Babal Babal. Is this your standard 4 grade logic. :uuh:

Your evil is more evil than my evil?

Well my dad could whip your dad, so there! :D

We do live in an evil country don't we.

But I guess the difference between us is I don't think evil justifies evil.

[islamirama]

Babal Babal. Is this your standard 4 grade logic. :uuh:

Your evil is more evil than my evil?

Well my dad could whip your dad, so there! :D

We do live in an evil country don't we.

But I guess the difference between us is I don't think evil justifies evil.

You asked for a just cause and i gave you one, now quit twisting things and whining about it. Self-defense against occupiers and invaders is a just cause for any nation.

[wilberhum]

You asked for a just cause and i gave you one, now quit twisting things and whining about it. Self-defense against occupiers and invaders is a just cause for any nation.

Why not come back to the truth?

The only thing I ever ask from you was a Pakistani news source.

Just how ignorant do you think I am?
Do you think I am as ignorant as you?

Too bad that fighting for a just cause is not included in the list.

I said is wasn't on the list of requirements not that it never happened.

I was born at night, but it wasn't last night.

Do you think I am one of those idiots that think any group is all bad?

Not like you, I know every groups contain some good and some bad.

[Cognescenti]

...

Only fights that are not "just cause" are the westerners who invade muslim lands to plunder their resources.

Oh dear God. I thought we had finished with that. Tell us, please, how many barrels of Iraqi oil have been expropriated by the US. What ship did they go on? Did returning US servicement smuggle them in their luggage? You claim is preposterous. That you would again offer it shows that you are a parrot who lacks the capacity for independent thought and can only mimic the utterances of others (or link to a youtube hatchet job).

BTW..how goes the construction on the Aghan pipeline?

[islamirama]

ahhh the beauty of denial and bliss of ignorance....only in America....:rolleyes:

[wilberhum]

ahhh the beauty of denial and bliss of ignorance....only in America....:rolleyes:

Well you did learn one thing from America. :D

Your ability to deny is superior to most.

[sudais1]

Too bad that fighting for a just cause is not included in the list.

what do you consider just, Isn't defending one's brethren just from foreign occupation just?

[wilberhum]

what do you consider just, Isn't defending one's brethren just from foreign occupation just?

Depends why there is foreigh occupation?

If a group waged war on a country and that country’s government protests that group and you know that group will attack and continue to attack what choice would that foreign power have?

That is only one of a thousand reasons. Wouldn’t it be nice if everything was simple?

[islamirama]

Depends why there is foreigh occupation?

If a group waged war on a country and that country’s government protests that group and you know that group will attack and continue to attack what choice would that foreign power have?

That is only one of a thousand reasons. Wouldn’t it be nice if everything was simple?

I take it you are referring to 9-11. Let's say it's true for the sake of the argument. let's say its not an inside job even though it is. The war and occupation of Iraq has nothing to do with it. Saddam didn't get along with al-qaeda one bit. Even top US generals and greenspan and other official's have stated it was a war for oil. And the whole war was waged on a pack of lies of WMD which are still never found. On top of all that, US defied UN and attacked Iraq for deifying UN. How pathetic is that?

Anyways, let's say the US got attacked and feels the need to protect itself. As their reports indicate, most of the hijackers were from Saudi and Iraq had nothing to do with it. Wouldn't it make sense to attack saudi instead?

[MTAFFI]

I take it you are referring to 9-11. Let's say it's true for the sake of the argument. let's say its not an inside job even though it is.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/meast/...age/index.html

"The speaker also repeats his claim of sole responsibility for the September 11, 2001, attacks on New York and Washington, which killed nearly 3,000 people"

This is OBL's latest message to Europe, how can you continue to believe these conspiracy theories, it makes you look like an idiot

The war and occupation of Iraq has nothing to do with it. Saddam didn't get along with al-qaeda one bit.

I agree, however SH did threaten the US many times over of an attack with WMD, and at the time it was looked at like the terrorist could join with Saddam and have WMD capability, really the attack just made it so SH seemed as more of a threat to US security

Even top US generals and greenspan and other official's have stated it was a war for oil. And the whole war was waged on a pack of lies of WMD which are still never found. On top of all that, US defied UN and attacked Iraq for deifying UN. How pathetic is that?

A war for oil? How many times do you say this and then someone says show me evidence and you have none? It makes your credibility look badly, unless you have proof of a single drop of free oil, I dont think it is right for you to make this accusation.

As far as the lies about WMD, I dont really disagree with you on that, but it is easy to see how america was dupped regarding it since SH himself was notorious for threatening the US with them. In reality he simple gave that extra confidence to Bush, pretty stupid on his part in retrospect isnt it?

Finally in regard to the US defying the UN, yes it was stupid and yes the Iraq war, whether it is won or lost does certainly appear unnecessary and stupid.

Anyways, let's say the US got attacked and feels the need to protect itself. As their reports indicate, most of the hijackers were from Saudi and Iraq had nothing to do with it. Wouldn't it make sense to attack saudi instead?

I dont think the origin of the country really makes the country guilty, it is the fact that Afghanistan was where the perpetrator was at and the Taliban could have handed him over and instead they choose to go to war. They were told at the time that if they didnt a military campaign would be launched, so in effect they chose to go to war. Sorry about their luck.

[wilberhum]

Islamirama,

Let's say it's true for the sake of the argument. let's say its not an inside job even though it is.

Let’s say that you are not the most ignorant person in the world, which you are not, but you did make the bottom 10%, why would I want to have an intelligent conversation with you? :hiding:

[al-muslimah]

So the US calls together many mid eastern countries to try and work out the issues between Palestine and Israel......

why? There will be never be peace between us and the zionists until they leave our land, the holy land, palestine.Till then its jihad like the messenger of Allah said.Palestine is the land of ribad till the day of judgment.If they are trying to stop the jihad there they are dreaming because jihad will continue till gog and magog come out.:thankyou:

[wilberhum]

The village idiot speaks again. Doesn't even know what the topic is.

[islamirama]

http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/meast/...age/index.html

"The speaker also repeats his claim of sole responsibility for the September 11, 2001, attacks on New York and Washington, which killed nearly 3,000 people"

This is OBL's latest message to Europe, how can you continue to believe these conspiracy theories, it makes you look like an idiot

Only idiot here are the morons who continue to force their lies down other's throats. Like i would believe that cnn crap. Their videos of OBL have been proved fake as well as their audio videos as altered to mislead the ignorant americans.



Pentagon & 9-11
http://www.asile.org/citoyens/numero...erreurs_en.htm


George W. Bush and his friends caught lying -
http://www.youtube.com/v/dUDmMGHzoXE

Bush Caught Lying About September 11th -
http://www.youtube.com/v/Sm73wOuPL60


[quote]
I agree, however SH did threaten the US many times over of an attack with WMD, and at the time it was looked at like the terrorist could join with Saddam and have WMD capability, really the attack just made it so SH seemed as more of a threat to US security

He was a great ally of US till he stopped listening to US (Like Musharaf). It has nothing to do with "WMD thread".

A war for oil? How many times do you say this and then someone says show me evidence and you have none? It makes your credibility look badly, unless you have proof of a single drop of free oil, I dont think it is right for you to make this accusation.

How many times will i post and the cry babies will shut up or ignore it to bring it up again on another thread?

US deputy defence secretary - War for Oil
http://www.truthout.org/docs_03/060503A.shtml

Greenspan admits Iraq was about Oil
http://observer.guardian.co.uk/world...170237,00.html


US planned war in Afghanistan long before September 11
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2001/no...afgh-n20.shtml

America's Pipe Dream
http://www.counterpunch.org/monbiot2.html

War for Oil Subtext in Afghanistan
http://www.commondreams.org/views01/1125-06.htm

Is an Oil Pipeline Behind the War in Afghanistan?
http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig/sardi7.html

I dont think the origin of the country really makes the country guilty, it is the fact that Afghanistan was where the perpetrator was at and the Taliban could have handed him over and instead they choose to go to war. They were told at the time that if they didnt a military campaign would be launched, so in effect they chose to go to war. Sorry about their luck.

First of all, OBL is not afraid of US. He proudly says he did it if he does something. When accused of this he clearly stated that he did not do it.

2ndly, he was a guest of Aghan. Muslims don't turn over their guest to kuffars just like that. Talibans even said to bring proof and show us evidence, which US did NOT do and just decided to attack.

3rdly, if he had been guilty he would have been handed over to Muslim nations to judge and pass verdict on him and not let him be handed over to kuffars. Look at US policy, no US soldier or citizen or diplomat can be tried and punished by another nation. Double standard hypocrites!

Now, i suggest you get back to the topic and quit associating yourself with that willy nilly islamphobe, who has been reported for his insults.

[al-muslimah]

I can't tell wilber are you still asleep?

[al-muslimah]

Only idiot here are the morons who continue to force their lies down other's throats. Like i would believe that cnn crap. Their videos of OBL have been proved fake as well as their audio videos as altered to mislead the ignorant americans.

Thank u islamirama at least you are AWAKE.

[aamirsaab]

:sl:
You guys just don't listen.

If I have to lock another world affairs thread, I will hand out temp bans in addition.

Final warning.