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islamiii
11-29-2007, 12:29 AM
!1: why west is so afraid of with the practical Muslims ?
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Keltoi
11-29-2007, 03:39 PM
I'm afraid I don't get your point...
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MTAFFI
11-29-2007, 03:50 PM
please elaborate
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Amadeus85
11-29-2007, 04:08 PM
What do you mean?
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wilberhum
11-29-2007, 06:21 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by islamiii
!1: why west is so afraid of with the practical Muslims ?
Practical Muslims? Would that be like sensible Muslims?

If that is what you mean then I would say only ignorant and paranoid Westerners are afraid.

Ignorance and paranoia are not unique to the west. Just look at the thread “Briton faces lashes in Sudan over teddy named Mohammed”.
That is paranoia at its best, or worst, depending on how you look at it.

So why do you think the west is afraid?
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Al-Zaara
11-29-2007, 06:29 PM
lol "The West" was the first to answer to this thread. :giggling: Reminds me of "why does the Middle East/Muslims /hate the West"-like feeling threads, where the East answers first. :p


Please, do explain what you mean islamiii.
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chosen
11-29-2007, 06:51 PM
I dont think the west is afraid of Islam..I believe the west is at war with a certain segment of radical islam...we have all seen them..we know who they are..but they seem to be a very small percentage of islam..I find the vast majority of people I know to be very excepting of muslims and islam..as long as they dont fall into the percentage that wants to turn me into creamcheese..
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mark1234
11-29-2007, 10:05 PM
i dont understand why there is a war beetween the west and the "muslims" have i missed something??? from britains point of view (my opinion) weve had a few wars ... just cause (in my humble opinion by the way). and thats that. and the west aernt scared of muslims, because if it came down to a "jihad" wed wipe out the middle east in about 3 minuites and 45 seconds (the time it takes for a nuclear warhead to discharge from a sub, get airborne and hit its target!!!) we wouldnt need that though wed just send in a couple of battle groups, or have a quick war , then pull out quickly and let them destroy them selves..;D (no offence)
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syilla
11-30-2007, 12:56 AM
i think probably this is about the islamiphobia thing...

anyway...alot of the non-muslim and some muslims (whom most of it don't practise islam whole heartedly) believe on secularism...

so...if every muslim practise islam according to sunnah and the quran...for sure the secularism will lost its popularity.

well...thats only my two cents.
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al-muslimah
11-30-2007, 01:26 AM
!1: why west is so afraid of with the practical Muslims ?--islamii

Because they know we are the future for this ummah.
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al-muslimah
11-30-2007, 01:27 AM
They don't want us to revive the ummah, Too bad.
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sevgi
11-30-2007, 01:32 AM
i think weve begun to elaborate on the topic ourselves..

why is the west affraid of the practical muslim...

the two terms which confuse me in that 'question' are 'afraid' and 'practical'...

i wouldnt say the west is 'afraid' of anything. we would have to define exactly who the 'west' are in order to derive some sort of logical answer.

and 'practical' muslim? i think that could be understood as a muslim who appears to be some sort of a threat to the smooth running of the western way of things?
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Muslim Knight
11-30-2007, 01:57 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by islamiii
!1: why west is so afraid of with the practical Muslims ?
If we're so serious about spreading Islam through da'wah why must we separate the West from the rest of us. Why must we isolate them and let them be?

Why aren't there more dialogues?
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al-muslimah
11-30-2007, 02:07 AM
If we're so serious about spreading Islam through da'wah why must we separate the West from the rest of us. Why must we isolate them and let them be? --Muslim Knight

Wallahi you are right. The muslims today are really weak and the ones in the west are too scared to say anything or do anything for their suffering ummah except a few i know.Why are we scared Allah is whom we should fear more.
Allah has said" atakhshawnahum falallu ahaqu an takhshawh inkuntum mu'mineen." -- do you fear them you need to fear Allah if you are indeed believers."(surah tawbah:13)
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KAding
11-30-2007, 03:12 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by islamiii
!1: why west is so afraid of with the practical Muslims ?
A couple of possible reasons why some Westerners fear Islam:
1. They fear a dual loyalty on behalf of the Muslim citizens
2. They disagree with some fundamental parts of Islamic doctrine/law, for example its view on the division of labor based on gender.
3. They fear Muslims will try to overthrow the secular order and replace it with one based on religion
4. They believe Western/local values are under threat
5. They fear Muslims aren't integrating very well

Stuff like that? I think those are pretty much the reasons for the 'intellectual' Islamophobes though.

Among the population at large 'popular' beliefs are IMHO related to:
1. Perceived crime rates among Muslim immigrants
2. Changing neighborhoods (i.e. too many kebab restaurants and too few local ones ;))
3. Fear of terrorism

Just guessing here though, based on what I read in the media.
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al-muslimah
11-30-2007, 03:16 AM
5. They fear Muslims aren't integrating very well--KAding

So? why should we.Islam is enough.We shall never compromise our religion for theirs.never.
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al-muslimah
11-30-2007, 03:17 AM
2. They disagree with some fundamental parts of Islamic doctrine/law, for example its view on the division of labor based on gender.--KAding

Well Allah and his messenger are more dear to us than the US congress.
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جوري
11-30-2007, 03:19 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by KAding
1. They fear a dual loyalty on behalf of the Muslim citizens
is that anything like having little Italy and china town?

2. They disagree with some fundamental parts of Islamic doctrine/law, for example its view on the division of labor based on gender.
I am afraid I don't understand what that means?

3. They fear Muslims will try to overthrow the secular order and replace it with one based on religion
I can agree with that.. but why the interest in having this same secular order in Muslim lands as well?

4. They believe Western/local values are under threat
which ones are those? for me it seems to be revolving greately around homosexuality and mini skirts is that all the west stands for?

5. They fear Muslims aren't integrating very well
I'd think having segregation of Muslims is a good thing as far as the west stands? otherwise I can't begin to understand all those riots in France in light of Muslims living in slums?


cheers!
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sevgi
11-30-2007, 05:02 AM
[QUOTE=KAding;874577]A couple of possible reasons why some Westerners fear Islam:
1. They fear a dual loyalty on behalf of the Muslim citizens
2. They disagree with some fundamental parts of Islamic doctrine/law, for example its view on the division of labor based on gender.
3. They fear Muslims will try to overthrow the secular order and replace it with one based on religion
4. They believe Western/local values are under threat
5. They fear Muslims aren't integrating very well

QUOTE]

how is a minority meant to establish all that...? in the whole of the WEESSSTTT!!!
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wilberhum
11-30-2007, 05:11 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by al-muslimah
Wallahi jihad fe sabillillah is the only thing which will ease the situation of the ummah. Jihad is offensive as well as defensive which some retarded people believe that jihad is only defensive or we can't fight jihad without an ameer(khalifah) or jihad has been abrogated or that jihadnafs is greater than jihad al-qital.Hello what part of fabricated hadeeth didn't they understand?!
You want war. That is a good answer to the WHY??

You want to start wars against every non-Muslim country.

Obviously you don't think Islam is a religion of peace.
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Woodrow
11-30-2007, 05:58 PM
Please read the FAQ's this thread is begining to look like we are acting like scholars. We can only express our own personal opinion;


12.This is not a Fiqh discussion board. Prolonged threads arguing over Fatwas and the details of Islamic law will be closed. Avoid asking questions that require a Scholar or Shaykh, as there is no one on the board qualified to answer your questions. Please use other knowledgeable means such as a scholar, Imam or knowledgeable person in your area or provide sources.
One more statement that the poster appears to be speaking for Islam will close the thread.
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KAding
11-30-2007, 10:45 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by sumeyye
format_quote Originally Posted by KAding
A couple of possible reasons why some Westerners fear Islam:
1. They fear a dual loyalty on behalf of the Muslim citizens
2. They disagree with some fundamental parts of Islamic doctrine/law, for example its view on the division of labor based on gender.
3. They fear Muslims will try to overthrow the secular order and replace it with one based on religion
4. They believe Western/local values are under threat
5. They fear Muslims aren't integrating very well
how is a minority meant to establish all that...? in the whole of the WEESSSTTT!!!
I never claimed they were rational :D. But that reminds me:
6. They fear Muslims will become a majority :okay:
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al-muslimah
12-01-2007, 09:29 PM
You want war. That is a good answer to the WHY??

You want to start wars against every non-Muslim country.

Obviously you don't think Islam is a religion of peace.--wilberhumm

What do u know about Islam??If it was a religion of peace as you say then why do u attack it so much???
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Pk_#2
12-01-2007, 09:49 PM
Edit
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snakelegs
12-02-2007, 03:51 AM
when are you leaving?
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sevgi
12-02-2007, 08:36 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by KAding
I never claimed they were rational :D. But that reminds me:
6. They fear Muslims will become a majority :okay:
twas good to remind you...:)
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sevgi
12-02-2007, 08:37 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by snakelegs
when are you leaving?
who?
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snakelegs
12-02-2007, 09:43 AM
al-muslimah. she is so in love with jihad, i figure she'll be leaving any day now. ;D
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sevgi
12-02-2007, 09:47 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by snakelegs
al-muslimah. she is so in love with jihad, i figure she'll be leaving any day now. ;D
lol...i realised that too...

i just didnt pick on it...lol...

is she really thinking of leaving for jihad?
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north_malaysian
12-02-2007, 09:52 AM
Why practising Muslims are afraid that the Westerners would be afraid of them for practicing Islam?
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niler
12-02-2007, 10:20 AM
mark 1234, du u think its as simple as that?
theres the hand of God in everything..and he'l never let a believer down..
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niler
12-02-2007, 10:50 AM
from what i understand from the question, i think 4 those who are afraid, they fear muslims becoming strong and establishing themselves, and becoming a threat to secular beliefs and laws.

al give an example,a country in africa, kenya,wanted to change its constitutition. well, it was amended but they refused to include the Qadhis court, which was there b4 the amendment.

Many non-muslims were against it, the main reason being, muslims were being favoured,n that kenya was a secular state, n giving them such a position, will make them strong,
they were scared that the sharia might also apply to them..(they found them too strict and oppressive) after talkin it out ,some groups conceeded after learning that it woul only govern muslims, one group is the Hindu, and catholics(not very sure abt the cathlics) but the rest were adamant.

The muslims did not refuse for other religions to have their own courts, but they still refused, and the Qadhis court was not added in the new constitution.

But in a referendum, the new constititution was voted out.
their fear was muslims gaining strength..
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islamiii
12-02-2007, 06:42 PM
what West get from iraq after ruined it ???
What west get from afgahnistan after ruined it ?????
what kind of war is this without goal??????
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جوري
12-02-2007, 06:56 PM
There was a goal I am afraid rather should say glad they didn't realize it in the process... guess the afghanis and the Iraqis just aren't that into 711 or hooters in exchange for some oil and some blood money... Though I can't speak for their newly elected puppet adminstration....
Guess condy's vision for a 'new middle east' just won't be realized in this life time.. but it is good to sing the prasises of battles lost, it increases the moral of drop out 18 year olds who are into kinky S&M in foreign prisons..

:w:
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islamiii
12-02-2007, 07:01 PM
why all human rights are for western people ?????????
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جوري
12-02-2007, 07:20 PM
because the Muslims are sitting around weeping for what was lost instead of reclaiming it..

La yhoghyer Allah ma be qwaman 7ata yoghyero ma fi anfosihim!

:w:
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snakelegs
12-02-2007, 08:10 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by islamiii
why all human rights are for western people ?????????
because we are civilized. we have things like enhanced interrogation, collateral damage, extraordinary renditions, democracy delivery service, etc.
hope you understand better now.
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islamiii
12-02-2007, 08:28 PM
because we are civilized. we have things like enhanced interrogation, collateral damage, extraordinary renditions, democracy delivery service, etc.
hope you understand better now.



Brother what is the meaning of civilized ?
a person who killl innocent ???
a person who only think about him self ???
a person who want to make world his slave?
a person who believe in might is right ????
a person who play with weapen ???/
is it ????????
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al-muslimah
12-02-2007, 08:34 PM
Brother what is the meaning of civilized ?
a person who killl innocent ???
a person who only think about him self ???
a person who want to make world his slave?
a person who believe in might is right ????
a person who play with weapen ???/
is it ????????---islamii

Exactly.Thank you islamii.
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islamiii
12-02-2007, 08:53 PM
USA is nothing with out a support of all westernworld
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al-muslimah
12-02-2007, 08:58 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by islamiii
USA is nothing with out a support of all westernworld
Yup that is why it will soon fall.
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Isambard
12-02-2007, 09:01 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by al-muslimah
That so applies to me and other 'westerners' cause obviously everyone who is a non-muslim and likes the idea of a democracy is an American.--Isambard

No not an American, a kafir(disbeliever).
Read what you wrote. You were describing America. Canada and alot of other "western" "kufir" countries where way ahead of human rights back when the Islamic countries were still promoting piracy and the slave trade.

Your point falls apart if you are referring to anything other than America.
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islamiii
12-02-2007, 09:26 PM
today muslims are weak it is reality i accpeted INshAllah we will be all together one day .even in this condition,thanks to Allah ,we muslim donot play with weapons .we donnot kill innocent .we dont believe in the might is right formula .
we donot want power and resources over deadbodies .
every non muslims is secure and living with his religious right >
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Keltoi
12-03-2007, 02:05 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by islamiii
USA is nothing with out a support of all westernworld
Really? Perhaps you should read up on the Marshall Plan after WWII, I think the "Western" world owes the U.S. a great deal. In all reality, the U.S. and the rest of the Western world have never been that close, with the exception of Great Britain.
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czgibson
12-03-2007, 02:11 PM
Greetings,
format_quote Originally Posted by islamiii
USA is nothing with out a support of all westernworld
The US certainly didn't have the support of all of the West when it invaded Iraq, but that didn't stop them.

Peace
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wilberhum
12-03-2007, 05:29 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by islamiii
today muslims are weak it is reality i accpeted INshAllah we will be all together one day .even in this condition,thanks to Allah ,we muslim donot play with weapons .
Play with weapons? No, they use them. Just like every other group in the world.
we donnot kill innocent .
Who is WE? Surly you arn't talking about the guy that walked into a baker shop and blow himself up.
we dont believe in the might is right formula .
Again who is the we? Are you including those that kidnap, kill some and turn over the rest for ransom?
we donot want power and resources over deadbodies .
Again who is the we? Do you include OBL in that statement?
every non muslims is secure and living with his religious right >
Would that include Gillian Gibbons?
You keep talking about we. Who is the we? Surly you don't think all Muslims fall under your "WE".
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al-muslimah
12-05-2007, 02:53 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by islamiii
today muslims are weak it is reality i accpeted INshAllah we will be all together one day .even in this condition,thanks to Allah ,we muslim donot play with weapons .we donnot kill innocent .we dont believe in the might is right formula .
we donot want power and resources over deadbodies .
every non muslims is secure and living with his religious right >
Yes brother you are right but we also defend ourselves.Yes we don't want power and resources we want Allah's word to be the highest and his shariah to rule the wrold and for the Kuffar to leave our lands they still get to practice their religion but in the end la ilaha ila allah should be on topnot in the bottom or the middle.top.
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wilberhum
12-05-2007, 05:12 PM
al-muslimah
Do you have any more three dollar bills for us?
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al-muslimah
12-05-2007, 10:52 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by wilberhum
al-muslimah
Do you have any more three dollar bills for us?
If i did what makes u think I will give it to u:??? I will use it myself or give it in charity.
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wilberhum
12-05-2007, 11:08 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by al-muslimah
If i did what makes u think I will give it to u:??? I will use it myself or give it in charity.
Boy did you prove a point. Thank you.

I need no more proof of your lack of knowledge and will ignore you in the future.

But in the mean time check out this guy.



He could teach you a lot.
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al-muslimah
12-05-2007, 11:50 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by wilberhum
Boy did you prove a point. Thank you.

I need no more proof of your lack of knowledge and will ignore you in the future.

But in the mean time check out this guy.



He could teach you a lot.
Is that suppose to be u wilber??:giggling:What would he teach me? Dictatorship:?Oh and why don't u start ignoring me now instead of the future there really is no point in your " logical " debates.
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sevgi
12-06-2007, 08:35 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by islamiii
today muslims are weak it is reality i accpeted INshAllah we will be all together one day .even in this condition,thanks to Allah ,we muslim donot play with weapons .we donnot kill innocent .we dont believe in the might is right formula .
we donot want power and resources over deadbodies .
every non muslims is secure and living with his religious right >
deary me....

i need to get to know these muslims...

there as muslim terrorist chunks all over the world...as there are the opposite.

the taliban, PKK...they are armed muslims out to kill innocents.

muslims are anything but flawless today. muslims are anything but secure with weapons. sure, they arent as bad as bush thinks they are...but we know of negatives on either side...

lets not be blinded by the age of our prophet shall we.

peace.
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guyabano
12-06-2007, 10:25 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by islamiii
!1: why west is so afraid of with the practical Muslims ?
Well, a small story: One of my close friend is a police officer. He told me just half an hour ago that they had to 'wipe off' 2 muslims praying in the middle of the street and causing a huge traffic jam.

Well, the question I would like to ask is: Why in the middle of the street ? Were they aware of that. Did they do it totally conciencly ? If they get wiped off, so they can pretend later, nobody likes Islam or the West is afraid of the practice of Islam and it would be again a reason to go on barricades. Or was it just plain stupidity ? Who will ever know !
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Jayda
12-06-2007, 04:30 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by islamiii
!1: why west is so afraid of with the practical Muslims ?
format_quote Originally Posted by islamiii
today muslims are weak it is reality i accpeted INshAllah we will be all together one day .even in this condition,thanks to Allah ,we muslim donot play with weapons .we donnot kill innocent .we dont believe in the might is right formula .
we donot want power and resources over deadbodies .
every non muslims is secure and living with his religious right >

hola islamiii,

i am having difficulty understanding the way you used the word 'practical' in your question but i think i understand what you are saying.

i think america (like many countries) is somewhat ignorant about the price of getting what we want. the world is a complexed place and it is to be expected that not everybody understands the implications of their actions. added to this we have the issue of war... which americans surely do not understand. if i am not mistaken the american homeland has been attacked only three times since the country was founded: 1812, 1942, 2001 and the most extensive damage done was during 1812... in 1942 and 2001 only specific locations saw the destruction of war. unlike europe or many other places in the world america does not know what it is like to live with the constant destruction and turmoil of a war unfolding on their streets and cities. and so we tend to think as limitedly as our experience and imagination can carry us when we discuss bringing war to other people.

with regards to the present situation it is no so much that america wants to hurt innocent people... it's just that i think america wants something, security, and because of 9/11 it feels justified in pursuing it, and ignorant of the effects of war we have brought one to muslim neighborhoods in the global community in pursuit of the bad people who caused this and fled to those places. and now there are missiles and collateral damage and all manner of damage and destruction, not necessarily portrayed in grim and gory detailed on our television screens.

i think most americans consider war something like a surgical procedure (and if they ever really got to see a surgical procedure... but that is another matter). they think it is clean and precise... only the bad people are hurt, it is quick and painless and everybody is glad to see them go and agree with us that the price was worth the purchase. but americans make concessions for 'mistakes' that we consider an acceptable margin of error... this is how terms like collateral damage come into being.

i think if americans understood a little bit better how serious a war is, how much damage and destruction is cause, america would probably not feel justified using war on the basis of wanting something alone...

que Dios te bendiga
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Keltoi
12-07-2007, 03:54 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Jayda
hola islamiii,

i am having difficulty understanding the way you used the word 'practical' in your question but i think i understand what you are saying.

i think america (like many countries) is somewhat ignorant about the price of getting what we want. the world is a complexed place and it is to be expected that not everybody understands the implications of their actions. added to this we have the issue of war... which americans surely do not understand. if i am not mistaken the american homeland has been attacked only three times since the country was founded: 1812, 1942, 2001 and the most extensive damage done was during 1812... in 1942 and 2001 only specific locations saw the destruction of war. unlike europe or many other places in the world america does not know what it is like to live with the constant destruction and turmoil of a war unfolding on their streets and cities. and so we tend to think as limitedly as our experience and imagination can carry us when we discuss bringing war to other people.

with regards to the present situation it is no so much that america wants to hurt innocent people... it's just that i think america wants something, security, and because of 9/11 it feels justified in pursuing it, and ignorant of the effects of war we have brought one to muslim neighborhoods in the global community in pursuit of the bad people who caused this and fled to those places. and now there are missiles and collateral damage and all manner of damage and destruction, not necessarily portrayed in grim and gory detailed on our television screens.

i think most americans consider war something like a surgical procedure (and if they ever really got to see a surgical procedure... but that is another matter). they think it is clean and precise... only the bad people are hurt, it is quick and painless and everybody is glad to see them go and agree with us that the price was worth the purchase. but americans make concessions for 'mistakes' that we consider an acceptable margin of error... this is how terms like collateral damage come into being.

i think if americans understood a little bit better how serious a war is, how much damage and destruction is cause, america would probably not feel justified using war on the basis of wanting something alone...

que Dios te bendiga
I agree with you in principle, although I think you underestimate the American understanding of what war is. The U.S. has been involved in very bloody conflicts, probably more than any other nation in the modern age. You are correct that Americans do not have experience with being occupied, although if they had, American foreign policy would probably be even more aggressive.
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islamiii
12-09-2007, 07:36 PM
Practical muslims mean a person who act according to the teaching of islam. most of the i countries are islamic only by their name . they dont have islamic system .
in the eye of west unbelievers a muslim who is in favour of jahad is extremist a person who donot favoure it is modest . a practical muslim also believes in jahad .
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Keltoi
12-09-2007, 09:12 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by islamiii
Practical muslims mean a person who act according to the teaching of islam. most of the i countries are islamic only by their name . they dont have islamic system .
in the eye of west unbelievers a muslim who is in favour of jahad is extremist a person who donot favoure it is modest . a practical muslim also believes in jahad .
Then it comes to what one means by "jihad". If that means strapping on a bomb and killing innocent people, then you are an extremist and a nutjob. If that means struggling to improve the lives of yourself and other Muslims, then that is practical, as long as that "improvement" doesn't equate to murder.

When the word "jihad" is spoken in the American or European context, it is referring to terrorist activities. Perhaps if Muslims would use this word to describe non-violent efforts, it wouldn't have such a bad reputation as meaning nothing more than killing in the name of God.
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barney
12-09-2007, 09:44 PM
Is practial= to Fundemental.
Fundamental , meaning getting to the fundements of the faith. The real message...the actual text of the scripture, what God REALLY wants from the faithful. Literalism. Gods perfect word undistorted by human interpretation.

If the answer is yes. Then whats not scary about that?
It's freaking terrifying...almost causing ...umm...Terror.
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Resigned
12-09-2007, 10:48 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by islamiii
Practical muslims mean a person who act according to the teaching of islam. most of the i countries are islamic only by their name . they dont have islamic system .
in the eye of west unbelievers a muslim who is in favour of jahad is extremist a person who donot favoure it is modest . a practical muslim also believes in jahad .
Judging from the responses so far, islamiii, you need to define your terms here. Firstly, I don’t believe you will ever reach a consensus on what defines a “practical” muslim. As with most religions, islam has splintered into many sects and subdivisions, some of them being openly hostile even to one-another.

Speaking for myself only, I have a wealth of reasons why the Koran (and that’s not to exclude other “holy texts”) should not be taken in its literal form. One reason is because no one can show just cause for why a book in any way supports the assertion of a deity. Non Theists can use the heinous cruelties of various holy texts to point out the amoral nature of a god that is then asserted as a moral guide for human behavior. If one actually followed god's example, there would be no end to the justification of execution that person would deserve. The literal interpretation of Gods alleged word in the Koran or bible is capricious, cruel, and as the alleged author of all reality, as nasty as can be.

As man has become more technological, the incidence of god(s) being involved in man's earthly dealings has diminished concurrently. As his morality has grown (with definite and horrific backslides), we learn that whatever god deemed worthy of recording in the various "sacred writings", was fairly short of what man was able to evolve on his own. In the realm of ethics and morality, man is far more kind and forgiving than god(s) laws by a far margin.
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Resigned
12-09-2007, 11:33 PM
So… who defines whether or not the glorious holy warriors who committed these murders are “true” muslims or not?


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071209/...3stXWatW2s0NUE

By SINAN SALAHEDDIN, Associated Press Writer 13 minutes ago

BAGHDAD - Religious vigilantes have killed at least 40 women this year in the southern Iraqi city of Basra because of how they dressed, their mutilated bodies found with notes warning against "violating Islamic teachings," the police chief said Sunday.
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al-muslimah
12-10-2007, 08:03 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Resigned
So… who defines whether or not the glorious holy warriors who committed these murders are “true” muslims or not?


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071209/...3stXWatW2s0NUE

:giggling:By SINAN SALAHEDDIN, Associated Press Writer 13 minutes ago
and your point is....................?
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al-muslimah
12-10-2007, 08:05 PM
The mujahideen are the only ones who are actually improving our condition and care about the ummah.Plus their brothers and teachers, the hard-working scholars of Islam, who are either dead or locked in the prisons of the tawaghit.Our victory is near.
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wilberhum
12-10-2007, 08:07 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by al-muslimah
and your point is....................?
Wow, back with total lack of understanding.

Amazing.

Who unlocked the door? :hmm:
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snakelegs
12-10-2007, 08:10 PM
i see our rent-a-jihadi-especially-for-forums* is back again.

*actually, i have been informed by a reliable source that usually they are bought wholesale as it is cheaper than renting.
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al-muslimah
12-10-2007, 08:16 PM
And you guys are trying to say.............? I really get confused when athiests talk.
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al-muslimah
12-10-2007, 08:17 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by wilberhum
Wow, back with total lack of understanding.

Amazing.

Who unlocked the door? :hmm:
Are u still asleep wilber?????:D
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snakelegs
12-10-2007, 08:18 PM
i'm not an atheist. i believe in one god.
what i am saying is that almost all your posts are:
jihad jihad jihadity jihad. i guess it would be safe to say it's a hobby.
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al-muslimah
12-10-2007, 08:26 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by snakelegs
i'm not an atheist. i believe in one god.
what i am saying is that almost all your posts are:
jihad jihad jihadity jihad. i guess it would be safe to say it's a hobby.
My posts are islamic.jihad is part of Islam.You believe in one god?:hmm:Well if that is so you should believe in Islam as well because belief in One God and rejection of tenets ofIslam is not belief in one god.
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snakelegs
12-10-2007, 08:55 PM
yes, jihad is indeed part of islam and i accept that.
it seems to be your favourite part.
it would be too off topic to discuss my religious views here - i just wanted to clarify that i am not an atheist. if you think that because i am not muslim, i don't believe in one god, that's fine with me.
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Rou
12-10-2007, 09:10 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by snakelegs
yes, jihad is indeed part of islam and i accept that.
it seems to be your favourite part.
it would be too off topic to discuss my religious views here - i just wanted to clarify that i am not an atheist. if you think that because i am not muslim, i don't believe in one god, that's fine with me.
:sl: to all.....

This is just to clarify to you of what you speak....

Jihad translates to struggle may this be the struggle of the heart, the mind or the body....you struggle to support your family...or to keep yourself fit...

There are many forms of jihad...as for it being the favourite part of islam...it is but every muslims fate to struggle in islam....

However if your meaning was jihad as in war...this is a misconception of the word...as for war being the favourite part of islam...there is no part of the quran that has ever stated any muslim to start wars...

so it would put starting wars as probably the last thing on a muslims mind...

:w:
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snakelegs
12-10-2007, 09:15 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Rou
:sl: to all.....

This is just to clarify to you of what you speak....

Jihad translates to struggle may this be the struggle of the heart, the mind or the body....you struggle to support your family...or to keep yourself fit...

There are many forms of jihad...as for it being the favourite part of islam...it is but every muslims fate to struggle in islam....

However if your meaning was jihad as in war...this is a misconception of the word...as for war being the favourite part of islam...there is no part of the quran that has ever stated any muslim to start wars...

so it would put starting wars as probably the last thing on a muslims mind...

:w:
no, i know that and i don't have a problem with jihaad. it is just that this seems to be the very favourite subject of that particular member.
btw, what happened to your wolf?
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Rou
12-10-2007, 09:28 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by snakelegs
no, i know that and i don't have a problem with jihaad. it is just that this seems to be the very favourite subject of that particular member.
btw, what happened to your wolf?
i had put him to rest but seems people want him back...

so....

Jihad in the sense of struggling is fine to be favoured however allah dislikes the slaying of any human...war is not prescribed....defence however is every muslims duty...

but again...to harm an innocent is not the path of allah...
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snakelegs
12-10-2007, 09:39 PM
i know.
the wolf is cool. :thumbs_up
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Rou
12-10-2007, 09:51 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by snakelegs
i know.
the wolf is cool. :thumbs_up
:sl:

Thank you brother

:w:
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barney
12-10-2007, 09:57 PM
I'm wondering how, when evry post someone writes is about the Fighty-killy Jihad, when questioned on it, Jihad is suddenly the struggle in ones soul to do good deeds.

Anyone with a base knowlage of Islam knows about the lesser and greater Jihad and what the prophet said about it.
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Rou
12-10-2007, 10:09 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by barney
I'm wondering how, when evry post someone writes is about the Fighty-killy Jihad, when questioned on it, Jihad is suddenly the struggle in ones soul to do good deeds.

Anyone with a base knowlage of Islam knows about the lesser and greater Jihad and what the prophet said about it.
:sl:

struggle to do ones best not good deeds but yes it can be doing good deeds aswell...

as for what many say in threads...im not sure perhaps they can answer that for you...

the base of knowledge of islam...a rocky path is what i say but indeed what does the prophet say about it...or more importantly what does allah say about it?

:w:
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barney
12-10-2007, 10:42 PM
The lesser Jihad is War and the Greater is the struggle for the soul.

Having said that, the rewards for the killy Jihad are much greater than the internal struggle. And TBH it's a darn sight easier. Gain paradise by a lifetimes wrestling with the inner being, or simply die whilst trying to kill someone that God tells you to.
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snakelegs
12-10-2007, 10:44 PM
i think that is a weak hadith, but i'm not sure about that.
war is a reality, oppression is a reality, occupation is a reality. islam is not a pacifist religion.
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Rou
12-11-2007, 10:01 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by barney
The lesser Jihad is War and the Greater is the struggle for the soul.

Having said that, the rewards for the killy Jihad are much greater than the internal struggle. And TBH it's a darn sight easier. Gain paradise by a lifetimes wrestling with the inner being, or simply die whilst trying to kill someone that God tells you to.
:sl:

002.058
And when We said: Go into this township and eat freely of that which is therein, and enter the gate prostrate, and say: "Repentance." We will forgive you your sins and will increase (reward) for the right-doers.

Far simpler just to do good....is it not? bow and say repentanc or blow someone up? i know which i would choose...


002.085
After this it is ye, the same people, who slay among yourselves, and banish a party of you from their homes; assist (Their enemies) against them, in guilt and rancour; and if they come to you as captives, ye ransom them, though it was not lawful for you to banish them. Then is it only a part of the Book that ye believe in, and do ye reject the rest? but what is the reward for those among you who behave like this but disgrace in this life?- and on the Day of Judgment they shall be consigned to the most grievous penalty. For Allah is not unmindful of what ye do.


Seems the idea of killing people (killy jihad as you call it) is quite risky hmmm...slaying people and banshing them sounds risky to me....dont seem so favoured to me?

004.040
Lo! Allah wrongeth not even of the weight of an ant; and if there is a good deed, He will double it and will give (the doer) from His presence an immense reward.

Again saving a kitten is easier than slaying a tiger....

005.009To those who believe and do deeds of righteousness hath Allah promised forgiveness and a great reward.

Far easier than flying a plane and then killing yourself...

007.042But those who believe and work righteousness,- no burden do We place on any soul, but that which it can bear,- they will be Companions of the Garden, therein to dwell (for ever).

Doing a good deed is childs play...killing...is not....

008.060
Against them make ready your strength to the utmost of your power, including steeds of war, to strike terror into (the hearts of) the enemies, of Allah and your enemies, and others besides, whom ye may not know, but whom Allah doth know. Whatever ye shall spend in the cause of Allah, shall be repaid unto you, and ye shall not be treated unjustly.

I thought you might like this one? (killy jihad) the reward seems to be well? not that much really? i get back what i put in? no mention of amazing rewards? i took the step of adding the next verse in aswell below ...

008.061
But if the enemy incline towards peace, do thou (also) incline towards peace, and trust in Allah: for He is One that heareth and knoweth (all things).


(Killy jihad) doesnt seem that favourable by the looks of it...not over peace anyhow...

i hope this is enough to help you understand a bit better about (killy jihad) there are many diffrent rewards and punishments such as fire for those who lift a sword against even an enemy who lowers his sword?

seems in the balance of harming someone to get to heaven and just doing good deeds....

good deeds is far safer and easier...

where as harming someone is way to complicated...might harm an innocent and end up in the fire...

search as you may the rewards for good deeds out weighes the killing of any human innocent or not ten fold....

I hope this helps brother....

:w:
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barney
12-11-2007, 10:57 PM
Thanks for the quotes, and peace to you brother.
I really wish that all the quotes you provided were the only ones. But they have to fight agains other scripture and hadith such as....

Narrated Abu Huraira: A man came to Allah's Apostle and said, 'Instruct me as to such a deed as equals Jihad (in reward).' He replied, 'I do not find such a deed.' Then he added, 'Can you, while the Muslim fighter is in the battle-field, enter your mosque to perform prayers without cease and fast and never break your fast?' The man said, 'But who can do that?' Abu- Huraira added, 'The Mujahid (i.e. Muslim fighter) is rewarded even for the footsteps of his horse while it wanders bout (for grazing) tied in a long rope.' Sahih Bukhari, Volume 4, Book 52, Number 45

Abu Hurairah narrated: “A companion passed by a valley wherein was a well with refreshing water which surprised him. After he said: ‘Supposing I removed myself from the company of people and I lived in this place (for the purpose of ‘ibaadah) but I couldn’t do that until I received permission from Rasulullaah (s.a.w). Would that be the most eminent thing to do towards Rasulullaah (s.a.w)?’ The Prophet (s.a.w) said: ‘Don’t do that, because the existence of one from amongst you Fi Sabilillaah is more eminent than Salat made at home for 70 years. Don’t you want to receive forgiveness from Allah and for Him to allow you into Jannah? Ughzuu Fii Sabiilillaah (wage war in the way of Allah), whoever fights in the way of Allah for as long as it takes a camel to recover from one milking to the next, surely Jannah is obligatory for him.” [Narrated by Tirmidhi and he said: Hadith hasan, Baihaqi and Al-Hakim said: Sahih according to Muslim’s methods].

Imam Ahmad: Sabrah bin Al Faqih states: I heard Rasulullaah (s.a.w) say: “Indeed Shaitaan waits to deter mankind…..so Shaitaan waits in the way of Jihad. He says to the person who intends Jihad: “Do you want to perform Jihad, when Jihad destroys the soul and finishes off your wealth? Do you want to fight, when you can be killed, your wife can remarry and your wealth divided?”… [Musnad Ahmad 3/483. Isnad hasan].


Allah Says: “Jihad is ordained for you though you dislike it, and it may be that you dislike a thing which is good for you and that you like a thing which is bad for you. Allah knows but you do not know.”

A man asked Rasulullaah (s.a.w): “..and what is Jihad?” He (s.a.w) replied: “You fight against the disbelievers when you meet them (on the battlefield).” He asked again: “What kind of Jihad is the highest?” He (s.a.w) replied: “The person who is killed whilst spilling the last of his blood.” [Narrated by Ahmad in his Musnad 4/114 - Hadith sahih. Al Haithami states: “Narrators upheld it.” Majmauz Zawaid 1/59].

I could carry on pretty much all day here.
:(
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Umm Yoosuf
12-12-2007, 12:31 AM
Assalaamu Alaikum and greetings,

Oh dear we seemed have gone off topic. Plus this topic is not really getting anyone anywhere let us use our time with other benefical stuff.
Thread closed.
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