What should I do about a rape in past?

[genki]

Assalamu Alaikum


A sister has converted to Islam Alhamdullilah and she has told me in confidence since we are going to get married of her past however sordid it was and that she was raped and her virginity stolen of her in that way.

Ofcourse I wasnt involved with her or knew her back in her past.

Deep down she wants to get him back for what he did to her and how he stole forced her virginity from her.

Islamically speaking what should or can I do?

Morally what is right to do?


I feel an anger deep down inside of me and want so badly to hurt and get back at this guy for having caused this girl to go through so much suffering and having led to her other bad choices in life. But what should I do?

How should I handle this?

[qassy!]

Salam Bruv

Im very sorry to here this, Do you know who it was? I would go and beat him up serioously

Sick mindded nutta

[------]

:salamext:

The man will get punished for his actions. Don't do anything personally brother.

[chacha_jalebi]

get a gay boy to rape him

thats what i believe the punishment should be and death

if you know who it is, pay him a visit then after you done your bit, report him to police

but bro if you dont know him, then it will be hard to find him

just remem Allah (swt) rewards you through hardship

may Allah swt, ease ya pain

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['Abd al-Baari]

:sl:

“The recompense of those who wage war against Allaah and His Messenger and do mischief in the land is only that they shall be killed or crucified or their hands and their feet be cut off from opposite sides, or be exiled from the land. That is their disgrace in this world, and a great torment is theirs in the Hereafter”

[al-Maaidah 5:33]

Taken from Ruling on the crime of rape from IslamQA

Remember that Allah swt will punish the criminal in the herafter,

[Eric H]

Greetings and peace be with you Muj4h1d4;

The man will get punished for his actions. Don't do anything personally brother

Very sound advice, but so hard to follow, we are on this Earth for a very short time, and then life after death lasts an eternity. The only one who has true power to put all injustice right is God, but we have to trust in God to put things right.
I often sense that when we attempt to put any injustice right we somehow seem to compound problems for the future.

In the spirit of praying for peace in our hearts.

Eric

[genki]

Things had lead to it and her previous lifestyle but ultimately she was raped and her virginity stolen from her.


I know everything there is to know about the other guy. Everything!

[- Qatada -]

:salamext:


You have to remain patient bro, you can either report him to the police or you have to remain patient. According to the law, you don't really have the right to harm him anyway - therefore i know it is hard, but patience is really the only thing you can do. As muslims, we can't take the law into our own hands, we can't inflict punishment on the people ourselves.


Place your trust in Allah, and ask Allah for help. Know that He is aware of all that is going on, and that the Day of Judgment is for the true justice. If someone does not receive their rights in this world, then they will without a doubt on the Day of Judgment.

[genki]

So even though I know exactly who it is, where he lives, what he looks and sounds like, contact info etc and every fiber of my being tells me to go and castrate or atleast beat the hell out of him I shouldnt?

He date raped her, stole her virginity away from her, tried forcing her to perform other things and sodomised her too.

3years later it could never be proven in a court of law anywhere and no point.

[AnonymousPoster]

Don't do anything to him, I think he is a sick perverted little (Enter here whatever you wish) ..

But the point is, if you beat him up, he will be punished here in the dunya, the greater punishment is in the afterlife, be patient

And he will get what he deserves in the aakhirah,

May Allah protect our sisters. Ameen

[00:00]

Hire a hitman,. the dirty sik ............... is still out der probably raping other women he needs to be taken down.

May Allah protect our sisters. Ameen

Ameen

[Eric H]

Greetings and peace be with you genki,

If you were to beat the hell out of him, have him castrated or hire a hit man, how sure can you be that you are doing the will of Allah?

In the spirit of praying for peace in our heart

Eric

[Keltoi]

You must also concentrate on helping her get over it and to move on. It is natural that the first reaction would be to defend the honor of someone you care about, but women are much different than men in this department. The best thing you can do for her is to help her to realize that she is no less of a pure woman because such a travesty was inflicted upon her. Helping her to get over this event and to embrace her own self-worth is much more important than the short-term satisfaction of beating up the guy.

Just my two cents.

[Woodrow]

It is impossible for a group that does not know, you, the young lady or the man to make any knowledgeable decision. We can each only offer our own perspectives based upon what we think and emotionally feel. each of us will perceive what we read differently and have different reasons for answering as we do.

I suspect you have already decided upon your choice and are looking for justification for your choice.

There are factors to be considered and the least valuable of these are the opinions of people on a forum.

Ask yourself these questions.

Are your intentions for the purpose of healing your own wounds?

What is the desired result you wish to achieve?

Is the result compatible with Islam?

What choices do you truly have?

Who is the best person you personally know to ask for advice?

Will whatever action you take improve your life, the girl's life and serve to praise Allaah(swt)?

Think carefully, with facts and not feelings. Rethink any actions you intend to take or not take. Seek the personal guidance of someone you can personally trust and know is of high Imaan.

[genki]

In many ways her former way of life lead her to that path, the drinking, low self esteem, fun party kissing etc and the guy had made it clear very early how much of an A$$hole he was yet she continued seeing him. But what boils my blood is he had it all planned out. Everything tells me he had it all planned out and though she resisted him and fought him and told him to stop stop when she ran upstairs to get away from him and was cornered she gave up and was frightened for her life.
Every time I think about it I feel so hurt for the pain and humilation she would have gone through. Had she had any self esteem or worth or backbone or valued things a little more, that wouldnt have happened to her.

But nobody deserves that! And this guy had it all planned out down to a bottle of wine and out of the way apartment. And as a result of him she felt like now she has nothing to cherish and felt hopeless, disgusted, betrayed and drank even more and became very indecent with another man. He is the roots of it all.

What concerns me more is how many other poor souls might he have done this to? How many others will he force and take advantage of?


Talking about hiring a hitman is all good and well but realistically they dont exactly advertise. And I dont want him dead. She herself deep down wants to get back at him but neither of us wants him dead. Besides where would one even look?

Doing something would comfort her knowing he didnt get away with it. And it would comfort me knowing he got pain and suffering and humiliation in this life and that he wont be inflicting any more on others and more to come in the next life.

The choices I guess I have is accept it, protect and cherish her from now and support her and encourage her to value herself more. And hold in my own feelings of pain and the suffering she would have gone through.

Or do all that and get this miserable sack of .....

[Woodrow]

you are wise to understand you have choices. No choice will ever undo the past. the need is to not make any choice that will cause greater harm to yourself or the young lady

[IbnAbdulHakim]

date rape?

i sympathise with your situation

anyway, ask a scholar about his punishment, Allah knows best.


As for the girl, its still fine for you to marry her inshaAllaah.


Assalamu Alaikum wa Rahmatullaah

[genki]

Brother woodrow. Obviously no harm would come to her but worst case i would be involved.

I know I have a choice and it cant be undone. A very small part of me tells me its not my fight, it was her choices to be with him, her actions of going with him even when he made it clear, her choice to drink and go to his place, her choice to give up, her choice not to have fought him etc. But the greater part feels no matter what she did HE HAD NO RIGHT to do that and of all people to a virgin and had planned it all out. And who knows to who else he has or will do that too.

Obviously another choice is to run away from the whole situation and her sordid past too by letting her go and walking away.

[Woodrow]

Brother woodrow. Obviously no harm would come to her but worst case i would be involved.

:sl:


That is one of your main concerns keep that in mind. Be certain of all possible outcomes. one consideration is will what you xdo help protect her privacy or will it result in her past being made public?

[YusufNoor]

Assalamu Alaikum


A sister has converted to Islam Alhamdullilah and she has told me in confidence since we are going to get married of her past however sordid it was and that she was raped and her virginity stolen of her in that way.

Ofcourse I wasnt involved with her or knew her back in her past.

Deep down she wants to get him back for what he did to her and how he stole forced her virginity from her.

Islamically speaking what should or can I do?

Morally what is right to do?


I feel an anger deep down inside of me and want so badly to hurt and get back at this guy for having caused this girl to go through so much suffering and having led to her other bad choices in life. But what should I do?

How should I handle this?

:sl:

how about a little advice of a different kind?

regarding:

Deep down she wants to get him back for what he did to her and how he stole forced her virginity from her.

ahem, "deep down", thus she HASN'T voiced this feeling? NOT YOU'RE JOB! LEAVE IT!

I feel an anger deep down inside of me and want so badly to hurt and get back at this guy for having caused this girl to go through so much suffering and having led to her other bad choices in life. But what should I do?

THAT'S what this is about, isn't it? again, NOT YOU'RE JOB!

A sister has converted to Islam Alhamdullilah and she has told me in confidence since we are going to get married of her past however sordid it was and that she was raped and her virginity stolen of her in that way.

it's HER sordid past, NOT yours. besides i think you KNOW the real deal:

The choices I guess I have is accept it, protect and cherish her from now and support her and encourage her to value herself more.

BINGO! best advice up here!

as for this:

And hold in my own feelings of pain and the suffering she would have gone through.

you DID NOT have those things happen to you. don't feel sorry for yourself...

you could:

Obviously another choice is to run away from the whole situation and her sordid past too by letting her go and walking away.

you have 2 extremes, if you love her, get over it. if you can't deal with it, walk away...

the choices ARE yours!

:w:

[snakelegs]

unless you can put the past behind you and the two of you concentrate on building your future lives together, i recommend that you do not marry.
it seems to me that you are ambivalent about her and need to do some real deep thinking about yourself.
are you able to acknowledge that she made the wrong choices without blaming her or holding it against her?
how much of your outrage is for yourself because you have been deprived (cheated out) of a virgin?
i think taking revenge is out of the question. you have no guarantee that just because he gets a good beating, that he will never do it to someone else at the first opportunity, if he sees nothing wrong in it. also, you are likely to land yourself in prison, instead of at a wedding.
both you and the girl could probably use some counseling to be able to get over this and move on and focus on your relationship, which will, hopefully be a lifetime contract. you need to help her build her self-esteem, and you certainly will not be able to, if you hold this against her on any level.
and as you mentioned, you also have the option of walking away and this might be the best for both of you.

[genki]

Actually brother YusufNoor

She has repeatedly stated she wants to get back at him. She wants him hurt and humiliated like she was. Her following choices were due mainly to what she went through because of him.

She would love to hire somebody to do it.

I see her breakapart because of what this sick .... did to her and her choices following it.


Is it not normal to feel anger towards someone who has hurt someone you care about? And especially in that way? What if it happened to your wife whilst you were married what would you do ? What if it had happened to your wife in her past and you knew everything about the person you still wouldnt do anything?

Ofcourse it never happened to me but I cant help being compassionate. I cant help putting myself in her shoes and feeling her pain, hurt and humiliation etc. And I KNOW it was rape.

[FBI]

Yusuf no need for that tone bro. Also to the OP not trying to sound harsh or anything but how do you know the guys actually guilty all you have is the sisters word, do you have proof, such accusations can ruin a persons life, make sure you know for certain before you proceed and may allah make it easier on both u.

[genki]

Snakelegs:

I have though hard about it. Its got nothing in the least to do with me being depraved of her virginity. But had she not been raped she would most likely have waited. Were it consenual act and she didnt it willingly ok thats who she was. But she didnt and she was raped.

There are plenty of virgins around and I could just walk away.

BUT I also know had she valued things just a little more, had a little more self esteem and confidence and had a little more backbone she would have NEVER been in that situation to start with.

[genki]

FBI:

There is no proof and especially not 3yrs later. Everything I know of the guy and everything I have seen of him and everything I have read of him and everything she told me, tells me its true, without a doubt. And he is not a decent guy but someone whose very aggressive and thinks highly of himself and is cocky.

She did have choices and she made the wrong ones but I firmly believe no matter what nobody has the right to rape somebody else. This guy is like one of those guys who one day will join the army and go rape and kill poor people in Iraq just because he can.

[snakelegs]

you are right, but are you sure that you do not hold in against her? this is something to really seriously think about.
another thing to consider: since this was done to her against her will, she may not be a virgin any more physically, but in a way, she is because she never consented to do this - as you say, she would have waited.
again, can the 2 of you move on and build a life together, or will your relationship be anchored in her past? it has happened and cannot be undone. beating him up is not going to undo it or accomplish anything except maybe some brief satisfaction of vengeance, which you can then ponder in prison.
many rape victims really need counselling in order to heal from the nightmare experience, and it might be good for both of you.

[genki]

you are right, but are you sure that you do not hold in against her? this is something to really seriously think about.
another thing to consider: since this was done to her against her will, she may not be a virgin any more physically, but in a way, she is because she never consented to do this - as you say, she would have waited.
again, can the 2 of you move on and build a life together, or will your relationship be anchored in her past? it has happened and cannot be undone. beating him up is not going to undo it or accomplish anything except maybe some brief satisfaction of vengeance, which you can then ponder in prison.
many rape victims really need counselling in order to heal from the nightmare experience, and it might be good for both of you.

If I look deep within myself I know 1 thing for a fact:
Any decent person with some self esteem and backbone and confidence in themselves would never have gone out with a guy like him! There were warning signals and alarm bells all around but she was also naive thinking she could protect herself and stop a muscular guy like him.

Do I hold it against her that she was raped? NO!

But I question how stupid and meaningless her actions and behaviours were and the choices she made. Why for the love of god she chose the choices she made I cant fanthom. He did rape her yes but she got involved with another guy willingly after him and moved in with him too etc (something I firmly believe she would not have had she not been raped). So if it comes to virginity either way physically or emotionally she is not a virgin.

I didnt just say beating him up would suffice. Beating him would teach him nothing. Permanently altering him would remind him daily of what he had done and maybe the life he had lived.

At times she herself wants me to get him or better hire somebody(which I have no idea how to even go about). At times she doesnt because shes so worried about me and doesnt want me in jail. Sometimes I feel that worse case scenario I get caught (unlikely) ill go to jail but atleast Ill have the satisfaction of knowing that he got what was coming to him.

I have suggested she get counselling but she doesnt want to reveal it to others.


She has a sordid past. I know it. The easiest thing to do would be walk away from her. Her parents dont like me, her past was sordid(every detail of which I know) though alhamullilah shes a muslim now, she has a lot of baggage and emotions and insecurities, she isnt exactly wife material etc any normal guy would have walked away. But beyond anything I know she sincerely loves me.

Though it hurts her and she cries over it she tells me I should leave her because I always lived my life with meaning and I had always looked for qualities in a wife including virginity and meaning in that when you say "I love you" it has only been said to you not to 3-4guys before you and that her body was sacred and kept just for you not experienced carnal pleasures with others and me having to deal with it nor the lies. She tells me I shouldnt compromise for her just like I never have and since its been a wish at my core to find someone who waited like me I should leave her.

I tried to do istikarah a couple of times I got nothing. Once without estikarah and after not having seen her for a long time I saw her in my dreams and saw us married living happily together with kids and both happy and I woke up missing her.


Ultimately I know if the guy was gotten back at it would give her comfort and ease her pain. We would love to hire somebody or if somebody could help but seems unlikely since neither of us have connections. She sometimes wants me to do it but mostly is worried about me and doesnt want it at my own risk. At times I think her choices, her past and the consequences of her choices. But when I put myself in her shoes every fiber wants to hunt the guy down. Sometimes I think even if its at my expense its worth it.

[SisterInsomniac]

Asalaamu Alaykum Wa Rahmatullahi Wa Barakatuh Brother,

If there is no proof anymore and you are unable to go to the police then you should leave it at that. It is a very unfotunate incident and my heart goes out to this sister for what has happened and what she is going through. I totally understand that she wants him to be punished and humilated. But as people on this thread have already pointed out that what greater punishment is there then the punishment of hell/fire. Let Allah (swt) judge him for his actions and punish him. Let the sister take tranquillity that Allah (swt) will give her justice in the hereafter.
If you on a personal level feel that you are unable to live with what has happened to her then you should let her know. I understand that maybe 'hunting down or hiring someone' may be the answer for the present time. But what about in a few years... how can you be or sure that this wont still be affecting her or you?
Do dhikar, pray, read the Quran when you or her are feeling angry and let Allah (swt) deal with those who are evil. (Please don't think Im saying you don't do the above things, it's just as a reminder)

InshaAllah you and the sisters are in my dua.

[YusufNoor]

Actually brother YusufNoor

She has repeatedly stated she wants to get back at him. She wants him hurt and humiliated like she was. Her following choices were due mainly to what she went through because of him.

She would love to hire somebody to do it.

I see her breakapart because of what this sick .... did to her and her choices following it.

Is it not normal to feel anger towards someone who has hurt someone you care about? And especially in that way? What if it happened to your wife whilst you were married what would you do ? What if it had happened to your wife in her past and you knew everything about the person you still wouldnt do anything?

Ofcourse it never happened to me but I cant help being compassionate. I cant help putting myself in her shoes and feeling her pain, hurt and humiliation etc. And I KNOW it was rape.

:sl:

Sorry to sound harsh Akhi, i was going by what you wrote.

i KNOW women that were raped, but they needed help. my marrying them wouldn't have helped!

Is it not normal to feel anger towards someone who has hurt someone you care about?

yes, but you DIDN'T know her when this stuff happened...

What if it happened to your wife whilst you were married what would you do ?

THAT is a different scenario, if someone rapes your fiance it's different.

What if it had happened to your wife in her past and you knew everything about the person you still wouldnt do anything?

the past ESPECIALLY pre-Islamic past is WAAAY different. as a Muslim you choose to live by the laws of your country. if she doesn't want to press charges or sue, nothing you can do. [nor did it happen to my wife, so we can't compare. on the other hand, her ex was a jerk but if he wasn't she wouldn't be my wife now! would she?]

you can still be compassionate, but now it sounds like she NEEDS counseling. you CAN'T undo it NOR can you give her ALL of the help that she needs. this MAY be too complicated for you. you might be in over your head. you need to decide if you can handle it or not.

think about YOUR future! [then try to get her some help]

originally posted by FBI
Yusuf no need for that tone bro.

he came online and asked for advice. i used a decided lack of tone and went by what he wrote.

:w:

[snakelegs]

If I look deep within myself I know 1 thing for a fact:
Any decent person with some self esteem and backbone and confidence in themselves would never have gone out with a guy like him! There were warning signals and alarm bells all around but she was also naive thinking she could protect herself and stop a muscular guy like him.

Do I hold it against her that she was raped? NO!

But I question how stupid and meaningless her actions and behaviours were and the choices she made. Why for the love of god she chose the choices she made I cant fanthom. He did rape her yes but she got involved with another guy willingly after him and moved in with him too etc (something I firmly believe she would not have had she not been raped). So if it comes to virginity either way physically or emotionally she is not a virgin.

I didnt just say beating him up would suffice. Beating him would teach him nothing. Permanently altering him would remind him daily of what he had done and maybe the life he had lived.

At times she herself wants me to get him or better hire somebody(which I have no idea how to even go about). At times she doesnt because shes so worried about me and doesnt want me in jail. Sometimes I feel that worse case scenario I get caught (unlikely) ill go to jail but atleast Ill have the satisfaction of knowing that he got what was coming to him.

I have suggested she get counselling but she doesnt want to reveal it to others.


She has a sordid past. I know it. The easiest thing to do would be walk away from her. Her parents dont like me, her past was sordid(every detail of which I know) though alhamullilah shes a muslim now, she has a lot of baggage and emotions and insecurities, she isnt exactly wife material etc any normal guy would have walked away. But beyond anything I know she sincerely loves me.

Though it hurts her and she cries over it she tells me I should leave her because I always lived my life with meaning and I had always looked for qualities in a wife including virginity and meaning in that when you say "I love you" it has only been said to you not to 3-4guys before you and that her body was sacred and kept just for you not experienced carnal pleasures with others and me having to deal with it nor the lies. She tells me I shouldnt compromise for her just like I never have and since its been a wish at my core to find someone who waited like me I should leave her.

I tried to do istikarah a couple of times I got nothing. Once without estikarah and after not having seen her for a long time I saw her in my dreams and saw us married living happily together with kids and both happy and I woke up missing her.


Ultimately I know if the guy was gotten back at it would give her comfort and ease her pain. We would love to hire somebody or if somebody could help but seems unlikely since neither of us have connections. She sometimes wants me to do it but mostly is worried about me and doesnt want it at my own risk. At times I think her choices, her past and the consequences of her choices. But when I put myself in her shoes every fiber wants to hunt the guy down. Sometimes I think even if its at my expense its worth it.

islamically, there is nothing you can do to this guy as you are required to obey the laws of the land.
from what you write, my feeling is that she shouldn't be marrying anybody yet as she is not able to move on. i think she needs help to heal. it is not an easy thing to recover from. if she is not willing to seek counselling, there is really little you can do for her.
if you both really love each other, you can wait.
and i do think that the fact she is not a virgin does bother you and is likely to be an issue in the future, as well as now.

[Woodrow]

:w:

One thing you need to look at is this all happened 3 years ago, before she had reverted. She was not the same woman she is today. When she reverted she became a new person a new baby, free from the past a virgin, newly born into Islam.

Three years ago she was living a life that would be unacceptable for a Muslim. She was not who she is today. Think in terms of who she was at that time think of her as a person you would have not known very well. That is the person you are seeking to avenge. Think of this in term of her then what actions would you take against a man who raped a non-Muslim girl living that life style. Your actions need to as your actions would be towards a man who raped a non-Muslim woman who you did not love. You love the girl of today not the girl who was raped. The man does deserve to be punished but how much punishment and what type is warranted. How much responsibility do you really have to be the punisher? What responsibility would you feel if you had not fallen in love with her? The responsibility you have is same responsibility you hold for avenging the rape of all non-Muslim women who were raped 3 years ago. The girl who was raped was not the same girl you fell in love with.

[genki]

Brother yusufnoor.

I understand your sentiments. But we both know no court of law anywhere would convict the guy. Why? even in an aggravated of the street snatch and rape case thered be no evidence left behind 3years later. And his lawyers as is typical would bring all her past actions to light and paint her as a party animal, leading his client on, agreed to go to his place, initiated the acts and when it was over simply left and guy drove her back after which tried many times to get in touch with her had brief terse online chats and saw each other briefly oncampus and even went to his party(since her friends forced her and she left) yet no is claiming it was rape!

And because she was so scared for her life she didnt struggle and fight like it was life or death(in which case maybe the guy might have even backed off) leaving behind all kinds of marks and bruises both on her and him and all signs of rape, so that she could report it and prosecute him with some chance of winning. But given the situation even had she reported it straight afterwards all it would have proven is she lost her virginity but nothing aggravated or signs of physical abuse such as slaps, punches, kicks, bruises etc. She was scared and panicked and tried her best as she knew how in that situation till she got cornered and realised it was hopeless and he was getting angry and she just gave up. But not only did he rape her he sodomised the poor girl too. She lost whatever selfworth she had after that. The one thing she had waited for and valued somewhat was her virginity.



I know I know brother. Youll say you werent there. You werent involved. And it was in her jahiliyah time. But surely you can put yourself in someone elses shoe and feel their pain too? If your wife told you that such and such a guy raped her in the past even though you werent in it nor involved would you not feel sad? depressed? feel her desperation and the hopelessness she would have felt? feel her pain simply because you care and love her that much? would your instinct not be to retaliate and find the guy? We as muslims are always taught to feel for others.
Could you then seriously disengage yourself and say its all in her past knowing this guy has gotten away clean with it?

[genki]

:w:

One thing you need to look at is this all happened 3 years ago, before she had reverted. She was not the same woman she is today. When she reverted she became a new person a new baby, free from the past a virgin, newly born into Islam.

Three years ago she was living a life that would be unacceptable for a Muslim. She was not who she is today. Think in terms of who she was at that time think of her as a person you would have not known very well. That is the person you are seeking to avenge. Think of this in term of her then what actions would you take against a man who raped a non-Muslim girl living that life style. Your actions need to as your actions would be towards a man who raped a non-Muslim woman who you did not love. You love the girl of today not the girl who was raped. The man does deserve to be punished but how much punishment and what type is warranted. How much responsibility do you really have to be the punisher? What responsibility would you feel if you had not fallen in love with her? The responsibility you have is same responsibility you hold for avenging the rape of all non-Muslim women who were raped 3 years ago. The girl who was raped was not the same girl you fell in love with.

Wow brother. You asked some really good questions. I never thought of it like that. But heres what I will tell you knowing myself and how I lived my life.

1. She is definately not the same woman of 3years ago. She isnt even the same woman of a few months ago. She has learnt, she has regretted, she understands how wrong her past was and how she was responsible for her actions and its consequences.

2. I have made it clear to her many times that all her sins once she reverted were forgiven and she was born a new. However what she has done still haunts her because she knows what she has done. She cant get away from that.

3. Had I met her 3 years ago I would have been 1 of those people she would have considered un-fun and I would definately not have wanted anything to do with her. However if she had been a friend I would have constantly advised her and I would have tried and shield her as I have with others.

4. Had I known her even as a friend I would have beaten the .... out of that ...... But If I did not know her at all and just heard it 3rd party then I guess I would have felt sorry but that would be it.

5. If she confessed to me and I was not emotionally involved with her or thinking of marriage? hmmm I would have felt really sorry. And tried to help her or suggest counselling but probably not have gone and chased the guy down but if she was a friend then I may have.

6. Im sure she more than me has the right to be the punisher but no court of law would convict him and she could never physically do anything to him.

7. Then again if she was a muslim it wouldnt have EVER happened to her and she wouldnt have had regrets like she does now. She knows her choices and her lifestyle resulted in what happened to her.


Apart from the issue theres the other issues i pointed out. How do I deal with it? Did my dream mean anything or was it just that A DREAM ?
Akhi how do I deal with her past specifically all the sordid bits? How can I feel special knowing she has nothing to offer me she hasnt already offered others?
Should I give up my hopes and dreams to have had a pure innocent virgin wife with no carnal experiences who waited like I did?

[Woodrow]

Apart from the issue theres the other issues i pointed out. How do I deal with it? Did my dream mean anything or was it just that A DREAM ?
Akhi how do I deal with her past specifically all the sordid bits? How can I feel special knowing she has nothing to offer me she hasnt already offered others?
Should I give up my hopes and dreams to have had a pure innocent virgin wife with no carnal experiences who waited like I did?

:sl:

As far as dreams I definetly am the wrong person to ask about dream interpretation. Much of my working career was jn the field of physiological psychology so my answers about dreams is in the manner they are physically produced by the consolidation of new information, during our state of REM sleep.I believe some dreams are genuine messages. But, I have no ability to interpret them. I believe the dreamer is the best person to interpret them but they need to rely more on feeling of the dream and not look for any universal meaning of specific images.

To deal with her past has to be you fully accepting as a pure person and no longer carrying any of her past. For her to accept her past she needs to be reassured that you truly accept her as afresh pure creation, with no connection with the past you need to demonstrate to her that the rape is of no importance any more as it happened to who she was not who she is. The girl who she now is was never raped. Do not make any issue about let her know that the girl who was raped no longer exists. If she has difficulty in separating her past offer to help her get professional spiritual and emotional help, but to help understand that the past is no importance limit the conversations about it and tell her that you know she is no longer the girl who was raped and she can set her self free from all pain and guilt that affected some girl in the past

Do not dwell on this as a constant topic of discussion with her

[genki]

Ok brother woodrow. thank you


But the knowledge and carnal experiences she had would never disappear right? How should I deal with that? What happens if she compares me to them? Wouldnt she have expectations performance wise too?
What happens when she expertly handles me when it comes to private matters and i am reminded of her experience and shes used to it and that even my thing is nothing new to her?

Also she wants her photos back from her the last guy (guy she was with after rape) because they are indecent and she feels ashamed by them etc. Does she have a right to this? And the guy is a type that you could never trust what should one do? Should I just tell her forget it?

[snakelegs]

Apart from the issue theres the other issues i pointed out. How do I deal with it? Did my dream mean anything or was it just that A DREAM ?
Akhi how do I deal with her past specifically all the sordid bits? How can I feel special knowing she has nothing to offer me she hasnt already offered others?
Should I give up my hopes and dreams to have had a pure innocent virgin wife with no carnal experiences who waited like I did?

again, i must repeat the question i asked you before. this is not for you to answer here and now, but for you to really reflect on and do some soul searching. how much of your outrage is at him and how much is at the fact that you are going to be deprived of a virgin?
i can't help but feel that you think she is unworthy of you.
i don't think you are willing to let go of her "sordid past". if you can't feel special knowing that she has been "had" by other men, i strongly urge you to forget this girl and find a virgin. you said that there are plenty of virgins around - my advice is to find one.

[Dawud_uk]

:sl:

“The recompense of those who wage war against Allaah and His Messenger and do mischief in the land is only that they shall be killed or crucified or their hands and their feet be cut off from opposite sides, or be exiled from the land. That is their disgrace in this world, and a great torment is theirs in the Hereafter”

[al-Maaidah 5:33]

Taken from Ruling on the crime of rape from IslamQA

Remember that Allah swt will punish the criminal in the herafter,

that is my understanding as well, that the rapest is killed, or one of these other punishment applied... let the one handed, one footed freak do anything after that!

although it is better to forgive, still doesnt mean the sister has to if she doesnt want to and she can seek to have the miscreat punished if she wishes.

edit: before the mods jump on me from a great hight... i am talking generally about rapists, each case is individual and we also have standards of evidence in shariah also etc relating to the trustworthiness of the victim i understand or if not they need the four witnesses etc.

assalaamu alaykum,
Abu Abdullah

[snakelegs]

that is my understanding as well, that the rapest is killed, or one of these other punishment applied... let the one handed, one footed freak do anything after that!

although it is better to forgive, still doesnt mean the sister has to if she doesnt want to and she can seek to have the miscreat punished if she wishes.

edit: before the mods jump on me from a great hight... i am talking generally about rapists, each case is individual and we also have standards of evidence in shariah also etc relating to the trustworthiness of the victim i understand or if not they need the four witnesses etc.

assalaamu alaykum,
Abu Abdullah

the above is the shariah and would apply in a shariah state, if there was one. but since he is not living in a shariah state, he must obey the laws of the land. (as long as they don't require him to do anything forbidden in islam).
so isn't what you wrote above irrelevant?
it's a good way to land him in prison, though.

[tigersabre]

Ok brother woodrow. thank you


But the knowledge and carnal experiences she had would never disappear right? How should I deal with that? What happens if she compares me to them? Wouldnt she have expectations performance wise too?
What happens when she expertly handles me when it comes to private matters and i am reminded of her experience and shes used to it and that even my thing is nothing new to her?

Also she wants her photos back from her the last guy (guy she was with after rape) because they are indecent and she feels ashamed by them etc. Does she have a right to this? And the guy is a type that you could never trust what should one do? Should I just tell her forget it?

Genki, having read your thread, while your fiancee has been through a difficult patch in her life (to put it mildly), it appears that you are taking it personally and you seem pretty insecure about her past experiences, whether voluntary or forced. If we were to remove the rape from this discussion, my guess is that you would still feel lingering doubts about the rest of her lifestyle.

Myself, I couldn't care less whether a person has more or less skill in bed, or whether I'm going to be compared to others. What matters is that I'm the one in the with her, and no one else is. I think because you're sexually inexperienced, this matters to you. Believe me, as someone who waited and then married, looking back on it now, it's not that big a deal. It's simply been overhyped and over-romanticized.

If you want to help your fiancee overcome this, then the best that you can do for her is be patient with her difficulties, and lend her emotional support, and help her grow as an individual. Rather than focusing on what has happened, you'll want to focus her on the bright future the both of you have together.

And as for what you should do this guy - nothing. He didn't do anything to you. And, I think you've noted that your fiancee placed herself in a dangerous situation, and she paid a price for it. I'm not saying it's her fault 100% or that this guy is not a jerk (he is, and he is responsible), but it's a life lesson for her, and it's not for you to be the one to pay the guy back.

Now yes, if he tries to mess with her now, you can kick his teeth in, and get the law involved. But as was mentioned before, she's Muslim now, her sins are washed clean as though she's a newborn child, her good deeds are converted into bad ones, and you - you have an awesome role in supporting this new, sinless Muslim.

Some food for thought - virtually everyone during the time of Muhammad sallallaahu alayhi wa sallim was a convert. Many of the women were not virgins when they converted, but they were the best of women later.

[genki]

Genki, having read your thread, while your fiancee has been through a difficult patch in her life (to put it mildly), it appears that you are taking it personally and you seem pretty insecure about her past experiences, whether voluntary or forced. If we were to remove the rape from this discussion, my guess is that you would still feel lingering doubts about the rest of her lifestyle.

Myself, I couldn't care less whether a person has more or less skill in bed, or whether I'm going to be compared to others. What matters is that I'm the one in the with her, and no one else is. I think because you're sexually inexperienced, this matters to you. Believe me, as someone who waited and then married, looking back on it now, it's not that big a deal. It's simply been overhyped and over-romanticized.

If you want to help your fiancee overcome this, then the best that you can do for her is be patient with her difficulties, and lend her emotional support, and help her grow as an individual. Rather than focusing on what has happened, you'll want to focus her on the bright future the both of you have together.

And as for what you should do this guy - nothing. He didn't do anything to you. And, I think you've noted that your fiancee placed herself in a dangerous situation, and she paid a price for it. I'm not saying it's her fault 100% or that this guy is not a jerk (he is, and he is responsible), but it's a life lesson for her, and it's not for you to be the one to pay the guy back.

Now yes, if he tries to mess with her now, you can kick his teeth in, and get the law involved. But as was mentioned before, she's Muslim now, her sins are washed clean as though she's a newborn child, her good deeds are converted into bad ones, and you - you have an awesome role in supporting this new, sinless Muslim.

Some food for thought - virtually everyone during the time of Muhammad sallallaahu alayhi wa sallim was a convert. Many of the women were not virgins when they converted, but they were the best of women later.

And your wife had obviously waited for you too right? How would you have felt if she hadnt waited?

See thing is if the rape hadnt occured then the next guy might never have been there but her lifestyle was definately not right.

A dealbreaker for me has always been that I marry a virgin girl. I can look over drinking, partying, kisses etc but not being a virgin has always been a deal breaker. I have walked away from many.

Even in the other thread in the GENERAL section no body has responded which leads me to believe there are almost no virgin men who have or would marry a non-virgin girl. Sure maybe you were a virgin and your wife was a virgin and NOW you think its not a big deal but back then wasnt it a deal for you? Every man even the players I have met all admit that at their core they would much rather have a virgin as a wife.

Now I am faced with a situation from which I normally would have just walked away but now ....... I could walk away and easily marry a physically virgin girl
with no prior experience very quickly but...... . If I stay arent I compromising on a wish and dream I had all along? Arent I giving up on the prize or goal I sought?
How do you think YOU would have felt if when you had waited and was a virgin till marriage and your wife wasnt and had her fun. Then the most special things you held to your heart your virginity, chastity, naked body and your manhood unit was masterfully handled with no hesitation or anything and clearly with lots of skill? Now imagine you know EVERYTHING.

And if your saying its not a big deal then why did I wait? If its meaningless and not of importance and implies no special meaning to the person taking it. Why is it that even she tells me its important to her and gives her meaning?
Why is it that all muslim virgin men marry virgin brides? Very few accept non-virgin brides and especially not if she was a muslimah in the past too.

And yes because I CHOSE to be sexually inexperienced and rejected a ton of women and chose to keep to myself, I had meaning. I had always waited for a wife like me who also waited. Someone with whom I could join as 1 in both spirit and body for the very first time. Someone I could experience carnal pleasures with together for the first time and learn more and more with. Not somebody who has gone off practised around etc.

1 thing I wont do is drag her down. But I also fear If i were to leave it would cause her a lot of doubts eg Even after all the changes the most decent guy who had stood by me and taught me and loved me left me because I wasnt a virgin. My past will never go away so why fight it. Why change especially since its so hard. Might as well go back to who I used to be since maybe thats what I deserve etc etc etc

[genki]

And can somebody tell me what she can or should do about those revealing photos that other guy has?

And who is legally entitled to such photos in the US? Sure they were together then but she doesnt want him to have any of them and is ashamed of it all. Would she have a right to tell him to remove them etc? Could she force him in a court of law?

She had photos of him too but removed it all and wants him to do the same but says unless she is there to push him he isnt the type to be trusted and he might not bother.

[tigersabre]

And your wife had obviously waited for you too right? How would you have felt if she hadnt waited?

See thing is if the rape hadnt occured then the next guy might never have been there but her lifestyle was definately not right.

A dealbreaker for me has always been that I marry a virgin girl. I can look over drinking, partying, kisses etc but not being a virgin has always been a deal breaker. I have walked away from many.

Even in the other thread in the GENERAL section no body has responded which leads me to believe there are almost no virgin men who have or would marry a non-virgin girl. Sure maybe you were a virgin and your wife was a virgin and NOW you think its not a big deal but back then wasnt it a deal for you? Every man even the players I have met all admit that at their core they would much rather have a virgin as a wife.

Now I am faced with a situation from which I normally would have just walked away but now ....... I could walk away and easily marry a physically virgin girl
with no prior experience very quickly but...... . If I stay arent I compromising on a wish and dream I had all along? Arent I giving up on the prize or goal I sought?
How do you think YOU would have felt if when you had waited and was a virgin till marriage and your wife wasnt and had her fun. Then the most special things you held to your heart your virginity, chastity, naked body and your manhood unit was masterfully handled with no hesitation or anything and clearly with lots of skill? Now imagine you know EVERYTHING.

And if your saying its not a big deal then why did I wait? If its meaningless and not of importance and implies no special meaning to the person taking it. Why is it that even she tells me its important to her and gives her meaning?
Why is it that all muslim virgin men marry virgin brides? Very few accept non-virgin brides and especially not if she was a muslimah in the past too.

And yes because I CHOSE to be sexually inexperienced and rejected a ton of women and chose to keep to myself, I had meaning. I had always waited for a wife like me who also waited. Someone with whom I could join as 1 in both spirit and body for the very first time. Someone I could experience carnal pleasures with together for the first time and learn more and more with. Not somebody who has gone off practised around etc.

1 thing I wont do is drag her down. But I also fear If i were to leave it would cause her a lot of doubts eg Even after all the changes the most decent guy who had stood by me and taught me and loved me left me because I wasnt a virgin. My past will never go away so why fight it. Why change especially since its so hard. Might as well go back to who I used to be since maybe thats what I deserve etc etc etc

My wife is a convert, but she converted early and kept herself away from that type of behavior. I can tell you, however, that I never asked her about the issue because I did not care, and when she brought it up, I told her that whatever her past, it was not an issue for me because it simply was not a big deal.

You're worried about a woman who dated - what about a great woman who was widowed young? Or divorced? Regardless of the marital legitimacy, you and I both know she'll have known the company of another man, but here's the thing - her previous sexual life is not your business.

As for the other guys not wanting non-virgin wives, they have the same societal double-standards programmed into them that you do - a woman who sleeps around is a damaged goods ****, and a man who does it is just a young stud getting his groove on.

I'd suggest that if you're not man enough to handle a woman that's more experienced, then you ought to be honest with yourself and her, and rather than put her through more stress, you ought to end the relationship, and simply let her know that you're not secure enough with yourself, as you've elaborated on this thread, to deal with her past, nor are you strong enough.

If it were me, and I found that her deen and character were good to go, and our personalities and long term goals jived well together, I'd marry her without thinking twice about it. That's just me - not everyone is secure about themselves, or can handle not being perfect in everything.

As we're taught, Allah does not expect perfection from us, he expects us to STRIVE for Ihsaan - excellence.

[tigersabre]

And can somebody tell me what she can or should do about those revealing photos that other guy has?

And who is legally entitled to such photos in the US? Sure they were together then but she doesnt want him to have any of them and is ashamed of it all. Would she have a right to tell him to remove them etc? Could she force him in a court of law?

She had photos of him too but removed it all and wants him to do the same but says unless she is there to push him he isnt the type to be trusted and he might not bother.

She needs to go with her wali / guardian or a mahram (like her father) and go to the guy's home and collect the pictures herself. Waiting for others to do work for you that's not a priority on their list is probably not a good expectation.

[genki]

Akhi tigersabre:

Why do you choose to label and paint me with the same brush as others?

I have never been brought up nor saw ANY indication that its acceptable for a man to sleep around because that would make him a stud whereas its bad for a woman because itd make her a w..... I have only seen that in western culture and even then amongst bad people whether they be muslims or not

That isnt Islam what your describing and I myself have not seen that behaviour in the muslims I have been except the socalled muslim men who do anything yet still want a virgin wife. Those are bad muslims and give islam a bad name.

I not even for an instant think its okay for a man to sleep around and not for the woman. God gave us the same ruling. A man remains a virgin and so does a woman till they get married.

Your lucky that your lady had converted early. So she was still a virgin. So what if she dated around a little, kissed or drank. Those arent deal breakers to me. But it seems like your also not in my shoes either.

And its not really so much to do about insecurity as more to do with what I have ALWAYS wanted and why I fought temptations so hard. Had she been a virgin we would not have had any issues. At the very least had she not willingly chosen to jump into another guys bed I would not have had an issue because it was rape she didnt volunteer.

If the lady was married to me that would show she waited committed and married and thats marriage which god has allowed too.

Brother
Only she has converted. Shes ashamed of her past. And you think she could or ever would ask her dad to go to a guys house 10000+km to get back photos? He wouldnt do it because 1 he isnt a muslim and 2 wouldnt care and 3 wouldnt take the time out to do that and 4 shed have to explain exactly why.

So what other recourse has she got?

[Woodrow]

And can somebody tell me what she can or should do about those revealing photos that other guy has?

And who is legally entitled to such photos in the US? Sure they were together then but she doesnt want him to have any of them and is ashamed of it all. Would she have a right to tell him to remove them etc? Could she force him in a court of law?

She had photos of him too but removed it all and wants him to do the same but says unless she is there to push him he isnt the type to be trusted and he might not bother.

:w:

This is a problem. He may have made many copies of them and passed them out to all of his friends or even posted them on some web sites No matter how many he destroys or hands over to be destroyed, nobody will ever know if all of them were destroyed. A person very dear to me let a boy friend take some very stupid pictures of her when she was a teenager When she broke up with him she got the picture and destroyed them. But when she was over 50 years old those pictures resurfaced and came back to haunt her. Apparently the old boy friend gave some copies to friends and copies are still circulating. This is problem that has to be faced. no matter what is done there is a possibility copies may resurface someday Now is the time to begin preparing for how react if copies show up many years in the future.

[genki]

:w:

This is a problem. He may have made many copies of them and passed them out to all of his friends or even posted them on some web sites No matter how many he destroys or hands over to be destroyed, nobody will ever know if all of them were destroyed. A person very dear to me let a boy friend take some very stupid pictures of her when she was a teenager When she broke up with him she got the picture and destroyed them. But when she was over 50 years old those pictures resurfaced and came back to haunt her. Apparently the old boy friend gave some copies to friends and copies are still circulating. This is problem that has to be faced. no matter what is done there is a possibility copies may resurface someday Now is the time to begin preparing for how react if copies show up many years in the future.

I know brother and I had explained to her. Thats also why she is so haunted by it. And I explained to her nothing is gauranteed you took that chance repeatedly with a person you couldnt even trust and didnt see in your future and knew didnt have much decency what did you expect?

[genki]

Wallah Akhis this is weird.

Knowing that im going she says she cant remember the most important part. It was traumatic and she cant remember.

She cant remember if she said DONT or fought him or kicked him in the bedroom. She cant remember if she was PINNED or layed down voluntarily. All she remembers is she ran upstairs and that he told her relax relax when he was doing it.

And she said afterwards he drove her home. They chatted online briefly a few times. She saw him on campus. She went to his party. He had messaged her phone many times and called a few times.


Because she cant remember the most important part whether she kept refusing saying no stop etc or just layed down or if she was pushed or pinned down or gave in or anything else and her behaviour post said rape shes saying maybe it wasnt rape? it couldnt have been rape? I dont know. I wanted him to feel bad atleast a little and to care a little for what happened. I cant remember. I do remember running around and telling him not to take my clothes off and give it back etc and him chasing me but upstairs I dont remember. Even when she was with the other guy this guy still tried getting with her.

Now shes saying that I shouldnt even talk to the guy and see if he will admit he raped her because he was an asshole and slept around a lot and he probably cant remember or didnt think it was rape or maybe will never admit it.


Now shes saying she doesnt know if it was rape. She isnt sure. She cant remember what really counts. And that because of all that I shouldnt do anything and is now telling me NOT TO.


What should I do?

[genki]

Would this situation be considered rape;?

You go out for weeks. You go on date drink and make out past midnight at his place. He forcibly and by tickling you Takes your clothes off by force and you ask for it and i tickle you etc and not return it and chase you around. You run upstairs and find yourself trapped and you give in and voluntarily go to bed since your trapped but you never fought the guy or told him to stop or that he was going to rape you or even that you are a virgin?

How is the guy supposed to even know what hes doing is wrong? What if it ended conssenual (out of hopelessness and trapped) is that even rape? though she never told him anything?

then again she doesnt really remember but sounds like she wasnt just thrown down onto bed pinned down and raped whilst she refused told him no, dont rape me, etc or him laying a hand on her and all her clothes everything perfectly intact.

this is messed up

[tigersabre]

What may have happened was that because she was drunk, she may have initially resisted, and then later may not have resisted, whether because she didn't know what was happening, or because she didn't think of it as a big deal while in the moment while she was there. Afterwards, she may have felt regret because she was a virgin, and it was lost in this manner. So her own perception of the event may or may not be biased by her feelings of lost virginity.

From the guy's perspective, it could have been premeditated that he would do whatever he pleased, or it may have been that he thought it was consensual since she gave in and perhaps (or perhaps did not) resist.

As for my comments earlier, your statements in your posts about virginity and other men having been with her demonstrate you already have the conditioning in you, whether you like it or not. You may intellectually understand the difference, but emotionally, you do not. Emotional maturity would propel you past the virginity and you'd look at other factors (as mentioned, she's a new Muslim, that was her old life).

In the end, Allah subhaana wa ta'aala has forgiven her for her sins - don't make it your job to punish her by being insecure in your relationship as a result of her past.

As for myself, before marrying my wife, I had been seeing a woman for marriage who was divorced, who had been married for 5 months to a person who had emotionally abused her (not physically). I was ready to marry her, but her family eventually broke it off because we were unable to get my own family past the whole "damaged goods" mentality, so I'm all well and good with that.

As for the pictures, there's only so much you and she can do. You should make du'aa to Allah subhaana wa ta'aala about this situation, put your trust in Him, and what good happens will happen, and what does not, and is outside your circle of influence and control, leave alone.

[snakelegs]

genki,
since all this happened before she reverted - what difference does it make whether or not it was consensual?
i think you should end this relationship for the sake of both of you and find a virgin. because virginity (yours and hers) is such an important issue with you, you are not the person who can help her heal from her past experiences and move on with her life because you cannot put her past behind you.

[Eric H]

Greetings and peace be with you snakelegs; I hope you are well,

i think you should end this relationship for the sake of both of you and find a virgin. because virginity (yours and hers) is such an important issue with you, you are not the person who can help her heal from her past experiences and move on with her life because you cannot put her past behind you.

I have to agree with you, unless the girl can be forgiven fully and totally then there is no point pursuing this relationship. What will happen is when there is an argument in a years, or five years or ten years time the past will be brought up and cause great anger.

In the spirit of praying for peace in our hearts.

Eric

[tigersabre]

Greetings and peace be with you snakelegs; I hope you are well,



I have to agree with you, unless the girl can be forgiven fully and totally then there is no point pursuing this relationship. What will happen is when there is an argument in a years, or five years or ten years time the past will be brought up and cause great anger.

In the spirit of praying for peace in our hearts.

Eric

And that's the funny thing - there's nothing here for anyone except God to forgive, and we believe He's already forgiven her :)

[genki]

She is saying she was trapped and felt scared and didnt know what to do. She saw no way out. Maybe she then gave in.

Surely if he had pinned her down or forced her onto her bed etc she would remember.


She says she wasnt ready and didnt want to and he forcibly took her clothes off but maybe she did give in because of hopelessness and not knowing what to do once cornered upstairs and that nothing would stop the guy.


Ultimately this isnt clear cut anymore. I dont feel right doing anything about it even though she wants him atleast beaten up for having forced her into that corner etc.

Her old lifestyle her habits everything and her choices led her down that path.


I wont do anything about it since its not clear cut anymore.

[Eric H]

Greetings and peace be with you genki; I am so sorry you are having to struggle with this injustice, but there is hope

There are three very clear and different things you have to come to terms with if this relationship is to have any hope of surviving, coping with injustice, anger and forgiveness.

Many injustices remain and are never settled in this life, as tigersabre has said we have to rely on Allah to put all things right in a greater life after death. If you continue to pursue something that you may never resolve it is going to eat away at you and destroy your inner peace with yourself and with God.

Anger after an injustice is a most destructive force and it eats away inside here is a powerful Buddhist analogy of anger.

It is like picking up a burning coal that never goes cold with the intention of throwing it at the person you are angry with. The person who is harmed the most is yourself. The longer you hold onto your anger the burn becomes hotter.

In Christianity anger is like heaping burning coals on your head.

Another analogy of anger is that it is like drinking poison, hoping the other person dies.

The most destructive force behind anger is that the person you are angry with controls your mind and emotions day and night, they own you.

Ghandi a Hindu wrote that forgiveness is not for the weak but for the strong.

There are ways to search for this inner strength.

In the spirit of praying for peace in our heart

Eric

[zena_a]

the past is the past. leave allah (azzawajal) to judge

[Md Mashud]

get a gay boy to rape him

thats what i believe the punishment should be and death

if you know who it is, pay him a visit then after you done your bit, report him to police

but bro if you dont know him, then it will be hard to find him

just remem Allah (swt) rewards you through hardship

may Allah swt, ease ya pain

LOL!

[genki]

That guy has no idea how lucky he is. Everything was set.

But since the story is so convulated, and so many possibilities exist and could haves, its very murky. I would hate myself to have judged and EXTREMELY punished somebody for life based on a convulated and confused telling only to find later that parts had been forgotten or that the guy may have been partly innocent or whatever. I have decided let Allah be the judge because EVEN she cant remember the most vital points and those points are what distinguish a rape from consenual act.

Ultimately she may have been coerced into it and felt hopeless and so consenually went to bed because she felt so hopeless that still isnt exactly rape now is it? Though in her mind she believes she was maybe raped because her clothes etc were taken off her and she wasnt ready. But in the guys mind the party girl may just have been playing hard to get, having a little fun chasing around and then finally getting to business.

If she had fought him even upstairs and he forcibly pinned her down or pushed her onto the bed or she kept protesting upstairs and saying no stop etc then thats clearly rape.


Let Allah Judge him. I dont want to be responsible for hurting somebody permanently and then to find out he wasnt at fault.

[YusufNoor]

That guy has no idea how lucky he is. Everything was set.

But since the story is so convulated, and so many possibilities exist and could haves, its very murky. I would hate myself to have judged and EXTREMELY punished somebody for life based on a convulated and confused telling only to find later that parts had been forgotten or that the guy may have been partly innocent or whatever. I have decided let Allah be the judge because EVEN she cant remember the most vital points and those points are what distinguish a rape from consenual act.

Ultimately she may have been coerced into it and felt hopeless and so consenually went to bed because she felt so hopeless that still isnt exactly rape now is it? Though in her mind she believes she was maybe raped because her clothes etc were taken off her and she wasnt ready. But in the guys mind the party girl may just have been playing hard to get, having a little fun chasing around and then finally getting to business.

If she had fought him even upstairs and he forcibly pinned her down or pushed her onto the bed or she kept protesting upstairs and saying no stop etc then thats clearly rape.


Let Allah Judge him. I dont want to be responsible for hurting somebody permanently and then to find out he wasnt at fault.

:sl:

Greeting Akhi,

i can't figure out if you've moved on or not yet so i'll speak...

She has repeatedly stated she wants to get back at him. She wants him hurt and humiliated like she was. Her following choices were due mainly to what she went through because of him.

She would love to hire somebody to do it.

I see her breakapart because of what this sick .... did to her and her choices following it.

^^from that^^ brother, SHE is the one who is not ready for you or anybody else! SHE needs help and probably a really good Sister to help educate her on Islam. i'm 49, but only reverted last year and so i've heard stories like these before. she MAY have told you a worst case scenario just because you told her how much you wanted to marry a virgin. so she came up with an extreme story to tell you why she's not. that would actually be the BEST CASE scenario! once you knew the truth, you could just leave the whole topic. BUT if she were afraid to tell you the truth, you could possibly here this stuff FOR THE REST OF YOUR LIFE if you married her! sounds like a nightmare to me!

and NOW, the truth MAY be coming to light. don't worry Akhi. tigresabre can tell you if i'm wrong, but:

1) you've proposed, but not to her Walli...because from the sound of things she doesn't have one.

2) she'a accepted, but now you are not so sure.

3) you have the right to withdraw!

4) if you've agreed on a contractual price for the marriage, give her half of what you agreed on and withdraw!

5) IF you can swing it, pay her ALL of what you agreed on and withdraw!

you are well within your Islamic rights to do so. may lots of du'a for the sister to increase in knowlegde and fear of Allah, Subhannahu Wa Ta' Aala and move on.

as for your other thread, my wife told me that she got up everyday BEFORE Fajr and prayed Tahajjud and read 1 Juz from the Qur'an! that's how i knew that i wanted to marry her!!!
:w:

[Hamas]

get a gay boy to rape him

thats what i believe the punishment should be and death

if you know who it is, pay him a visit then after you done your bit, report him to police

but bro if you dont know him, then it will be hard to find him

just remem Allah (swt) rewards you through hardship

may Allah swt, ease ya pain

Assalamu Alaikum brother chacha jalebi do you mean jalebi as in those sweets that look like spirals of orange? lol

I dont know the exact punishment for rape under the islamic law but i dont agree with your opinion. Get a gay boy to rape him? if you said get a girl to rape him that would be more appropriate. Why dont you go and do it then? since you were so quick to dish out the idea LOL and besides that rapist could be a gay himself so it might be pleasure for both of them rather than one punishing the other but seriously should we think its right to punish someone with a behaviour that is a punishable offence itself, that has been the cause of destruction and obliteration of entire nations before us, i may be wrong brother jalebi and if i learn that this is infact the punishment under the islamic law then i will apologize to you and accept it. I hope you havnt taken any offence brother jalebi because i didnt mean any.

Brother genki it is of cousre tragic and unfortunate what happened to your fionce but its done now you cant change it. If the sister was forced and raped then Allah has forgiven her and she is exempt from punishment and now that the sister is a muslim her past has been forgiven. As for the rapist theres no point in you banging on about it if you wana do something then do it maybe you should make sure that whatever you do is under the islamic law but if its not then know that Allah forgives much and he is the most forgiving and most merciful provided you turn to Him.

Assalamu Alaikum.