Question for Religious People Re: this world

[snakelegs]

Originally Posted by aamirsaab:

My turn.
Heaven = awesome place
This earth / life = crap hole
Hell = hole.

i have kidnapped this from the thread on paradise.
i know this type of thinking is not uncommon among religious people. i find it incomprehensible and troubling.
how can you possibly believe this earth/life = crap hole?
god made this earth and gave you and me life, how can you disdain it? he made this planet and filled it full of beauty and things that are a source of constant wonder and awe.
you may think it is but a passing shadow compared to eternity but that does not mean that it is not wonderful and beautiful and full of miracles and much to be thankful for.

[snakelegs]

this is a record for post approval speed!
thanks, mod!

[jzcasejz]

Originally Posted by aamirsaab:



i have kidnapped this from the thread on paradise.
i know this type of thinking is not uncommon among religious people. i find it incomprehensible and troubling.
how can you possibly believe this earth/life = crap hole?
god made this earth and gave you and me life, how can you disdain it? he made this planet and filled it full of beauty and things that are a source of constant wonder and awe.
you may think it is but a passing shadow compared to eternity but that does not mean that it is not wonderful and beautiful and full of miracles and much to be thankful for.

^ I wouldn't count myself as "religious", but I'll answer anyways. Yes, I completely agree with what you're saying.

how can you possibly believe this earth/life = crap hole?

Though it'll be better to hear it from the main man aamir himself, I think it is a crap hole in the sense that it's not worth seeking/chasing the pleasures of this world while jeopardising your chances in the afterlife. So yeah, it is full of wonder and awe and is not crap in terms of that - rather it is something amazing, but to seek this world over the afterlife is perfect a reason to describe this world as a crap hole. Maybe I'm not making sense here... but... I don't know lol. :X

[snakelegs]

^ I wouldn't count myself as "religious", but I'll answer anyways. Yes, I completely agree with what you're saying.



Though it'll be better to hear it from the main man aamir himself, I think it is a crap hole in the sense that it's not worth seeking/chasing the pleasures of this world while jeopardising your chances in the afterlife. So yeah, it is full of wonder and awe and is not crap in terms of that - rather it is something amazing, but to seek this world over the afterlife is perfect a reason to describe this world as a crap hole. Maybe I'm not making sense here... but... I don't know lol. :X

it was here
http://www.islamicboard.com/comparat...tml#post888296
i snatched that part from his post because i wanted to hear what people think about this - (he was the excuse :D)
i don't mean to single him out - it is a sentiment often stated by believing muslims and christians.
i realize eternity weighs much heavier and you do not want to put your chances in the afterlife by "seeking the pleasures of this world". this phrase is usually said about things that are considered sins.
again, i see no reason that the importance of the afterlife should lead to a disdain of this world.
but there are pleasures of this world - that have nothing to do with man or man made things.... shouldn't we be thankful for these and appreciate them fully as the creation? it was actually pondering nature that was one of the main things that led me to believe in god. it is simply awesome...
this world and our life are gifts.

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[Intisar]

I remember a quote, I think it was Ibn-Tammiyah (ra) who said it and Allaah forgive me If I'm wrong, that the world is a prison for the believer and a paradise for the unbeliever.

Yes, I understand your viewpoint seeing as how we constantly praise Allaah Ta'ala for what he's given us, but at the same time we should not love this world because it is reiterated in many hadiths and ayats that it's but a ''passing'' (phase). When Allaah brings us all to account, it will feel like our whole lives were but a day or two. We should not cherish this world, we should be glad to be living in it because it gives us more chances at being dutiful to Allaah and giving ibadah (worship), but it's not something that we should love. We should love Allaah, and through loving Allaah, we will gain paradise.

[syilla]

hello....

maybe you'll need abit more of understanding on how we think...

In islam it is compulsory for us to be grateful with this world...but we also have to try to strive hard for jannah.

It has been reported that the Prophet (salAllahu ‘alayhi wa sallam) said, “The one who wakes up in the morning and complains about the scarcity of livelihood,it is as though he is complaining against his Lord. The one who wakes up and is sad over the affairs of the dunya, it is as though he has woken up angry with Allah. And the one who humbles himself in front of a rich man because of his wealth will have lost two-thirds of his Religion.”


And striving hard doesn't mean just praying...

In islam, to strive hard for jannah is doing alot of ibadah which encompass in everything we do...work, eat, drink and etc with a condition only for the sake of Allah subhanahuwata'ala. It is the way of life....

We believe this dunya is temporary and deceiving.

Know that the life of this world is only play and amusement, pomp and mutual boasting among you, and rivalry in respect of wealth and children… the life of this world is only a deceiving enjoyment. (Al-Hadid 57:20)

Verily, the Promise of Allâh is true, let not then this (worldly) present life deceive you, nor let the chief deceiver (Satan) deceive you about Allâh. (Luqman 31:33)

The evil in focussing too much of this world is because of greed, arrogance and envy. The love of money, lust and wealth, what is it for? can we bring it to the grave?

So dunya isn't our focus. shouldn't be. Dunya is a temporary place where we should be trying our best to collect as much as 'amal'/deeds, so that Allah subhanahuwata'ala will have mercy and reward us in the hereafter.

And we are not trying hard enuff...

So in islam, dunya is only for 'work', 'work', 'work'....according to islam. Well ocassionally of course we can relax and enjoy the day...but i think we have enjoyed more than 'work' more.

A Poet said:
O he who is busy with his dunya!
Whom illusions of a long lifetime have deluded
Was he not in a state of heedlessness
Until his appointed time drew near?
Verily death arrives suddenly
And the Grave is the collection-box of actions
Be patient over the dunya and its hardships
No death is there except at one’s appointed time

[jzcasejz]

I remember a quote, I think it was Ibn-Tammiyah (ra) who said it and Allaah forgive me If I'm wrong, that the world is a prison for the believer and a paradise for the unbeliever.

If I remember correctly, that was a Hadeeth of the Prophet (SAW).

"The world is a prison for the believers and a paradise for the disbelievers." [Muslim]

[Intisar]

If I remember correctly, that was a Hadeeth of the Prophet (SAW).

"The world is a prison for the believers and a paradise for the disbelievers." [Muslim]

:sl: Baraka Allaahu feek, akhi.

[snakelegs]

hello....

maybe you'll need abit more of understanding on how we think...

In islam it is compulsory for us to be grateful with this world...but we also have to try to strive hard for jannah.

It has been reported that the Prophet (salAllahu ‘alayhi wa sallam) said, “The one who wakes up in the morning and complains about the scarcity of livelihood,it is as though he is complaining against his Lord. The one who wakes up and is sad over the affairs of the dunya, it is as though he has woken up angry with Allah. And the one who humbles himself in front of a rich man because of his wealth will have lost two-thirds of his Religion.”


And striving hard doesn't mean just praying...

In islam, to strive hard for jannah is doing alot of ibadah which encompass in everything we do...work, eat, drink and etc with a condition only for the sake of Allah subhanahuwata'ala. It is the way of life....

We believe this dunya is temporary and deceiving.

Know that the life of this world is only play and amusement, pomp and mutual boasting among you, and rivalry in respect of wealth and children… the life of this world is only a deceiving enjoyment. (Al-Hadid 57:20)

Verily, the Promise of Allâh is true, let not then this (worldly) present life deceive you, nor let the chief deceiver (Satan) deceive you about Allâh. (Luqman 31:33)

The evil in focussing too much of this world is because of greed, arrogance and envy. The love of money, lust and wealth, what is it for? can we bring it to the grave?

So dunya isn't our focus. shouldn't be. Dunya is a temporary place where we should be trying our best to collect as much as 'amal'/deeds, so that Allah subhanahuwata'ala will have mercy and reward us in the hereafter.

And we are not trying hard enuff...

So in islam, dunya is only for 'work', 'work', 'work'....according to islam. Well ocassionally of course we can relax and enjoy the day...but i think we have enjoyed more than 'work' more.

A Poet said:
O he who is busy with his dunya!
Whom illusions of a long lifetime have deluded
Was he not in a state of heedlessness
Until his appointed time drew near?
Verily death arrives suddenly
And the Grave is the collection-box of actions
Be patient over the dunya and its hardships
No death is there except at one’s appointed time

i understand what you have said. but when i speak of the pleasures of this world i do not mean crap like wealth and material things. i mean things like the functioning of cells, habitat niches, the life of a bug, the beauty of the play of light and shadow on the desert hills.
you are conscious that this world is not all there is and you must prepare for the next world, but is it wrong to love the beauty that surrounds us, that has been made by god?
i don't think one should disdain this world - it is so much more than all the crazyiness that goes on, that people do.
my understanding of islam is that you are not supposed to get attached to worldly, material things, because they are not important. but this doesn't mean that you should view the world or life as something to "get through".
i guess what i am saying is why does this world and the after life have to be placed at polar opposites?
i don't think islam takes this position either, because it does concern itself with the environment. but many muslims and christians (actually, i think even some hindus) seem to regard this world as insignificant. it may be fleeting, but i think it should be appreciated and i often get the feeling that it is not - that the attitude expressed so succinctly by aamirsaab is not uncommon.
anyway, i mostly wanted your opinions so enough of me.

[syilla]

material things, because they are not important. but this doesn't mean that you should view the world or life as something to "get through".

you're right... the life in this world is important. because the life of this world will have an effect in the hereafter.

For example, if ones love ones wife/husband within the islamic rules, did you know that they can be together until the hereafter?

We appreciate the things that Allah subhanahuwata'ala give, and we should be. Because thats the only way we can be humble.

If ibadah is...

"The "ibadah" is a collective noun that includes every thing that Allah (S.W.T.) loves and accepts from sayings and the physical acts; the hidden (acts by heart) and the openly (acts by limbs). The acts by limbs include the prayer, zakah, fasting, hajj, straight talk, loyalty (returning someone’s possessions to them), kindness with parents, having good accord with relatives, keeping promises and treaties, enjoining what is good and forbidding what is evil, fighting against the kuffar and the hypocrites, kindness with the neighbor, with the orphan, with the poor, with the wayfarer, with the animals, supplication, remembering Allah, reciting Qur’an, and all things of this nature are from "ibadah."

The acts by heart include the love for Allah and His messenger, fear of Allah, asking Him for forgiveness, Having sincerity to Him alone in deen, being patient, thanking for His blessings, accepting His judgment, depending on Him, hoping for His mercy, fear from His punishment, and all things of this nature are from of ibadah worship." All this is supported by an abundant number of evidences from the book of Allah (S.W.T.) and the sunnah of His messenger (S.A.W.).

The comprehensiveness of "ibadah" for all aspects of this life:

From the etiquette of eating, drinking, going to the bathroom, to building the individual as well as the society, satisfying the people’s needs that are related to the issues of the state and the politics of ruling and governing, the system of economy, the affairs of dealings and the judicial system, and the foundations of international relations in peace and in war. All this is supported by many Qur’anic verses and sayings of the prophet (S.A.W.).

then ones should appreciate everything Allah's subhanahuwata'ala created.

{And seek with that which Allah has given you the realm of the hereafter and do not neglect your portion in this life. And be gracious as Allah has been gracious to you. And do not seek corruption in the land for Allah does not love the corrupters.} Al-Qasas:77

But most probably your definition of dunya and islam...is different. lol...

In islam...dunya is about the lust, desire and nafs. :)

[czgibson]

Greetings,

^ I wouldn't count myself as "religious", but I'll answer anyways.

Trust me, if you believe in an afterlife, you're religious.

Fair enough, though - good luck with it. :)

Peace

[YusufNoor]

Originally Posted by aamirsaab:



i have kidnapped this from the thread on paradise.
i know this type of thinking is not uncommon among religious people. i find it incomprehensible and troubling.
how can you possibly believe this earth/life = crap hole?
god made this earth and gave you and me life, how can you disdain it? he made this planet and filled it full of beauty and things that are a source of constant wonder and awe.
you may think it is but a passing shadow compared to eternity but that does not mean that it is not wonderful and beautiful and full of miracles and much to be thankful for.

:sl:

I AGREE with what you are saying, but don't agree with "earth/life = craphole?" not that it's your phrase. to a Muslim the "dunya" as "wonderful and beautiful and full of miracles" pales in comparison to Jannah. FOREVER compared to this life, or visa versa, not in the same ballpark! but erm, dunya is a better term than...crap!


anyway, seeing how you said: "you may think it is but a passing shadow compared to eternity but that does not mean that it is not wonderful and beautiful and full of miracles and much to be thankful for", i give you Mufti Ismail Menk; listen to his Ramadhan Tafseer:

http://www.muftimenk.co.za/Index.html

:w:

[czgibson]

Greetings,

I agree. I think 'dunya' is a beautiful word. Yes, the world we find ourselves in is a mystifying and sometimes upsetting place, but pinning your hopes on a hereafter for which there really is no evidence is no solution.

Peace

[syilla]

Greetings,

I agree. I think 'dunya' is a beautiful word. Yes, the world we find ourselves in is a mystifying and sometimes upsetting place, but pinning your hopes on a hereafter for which there really is no evidence is no solution.

Peace

why do you say that is not a solution?

did you know, we are trying to save this world and environment too? And did you know that in islam we believe everybody is compulsory to do that by giving da'wah, nasehah and take some actions. And did you know it will be rewarded to in the hereafter according to islam.

“Invite (all) to the Way of thy Lord with wisdom and beautiful preaching; and argue with them in ways that are best and most gracious.” (An-Nahl: 125)

“Thus it is due to mercy from Allah that you deal with them gently, and had you been rough, hard hearted, they would certainly have dispersed from around you; pardon them therefore and ask pardon for them, and take counsel with them in the affair.” (Al `Imran: 159)

"Thus we have appointed you a middle community in order that you may be witnesses towards humankind and that the Messenger may be a witness towards you… (Al-Baqarah:143)

"And the believers should not all go out to fight. Of every troop of them, a party only should go forth, that they (who are left behind) may gain sound knowledge in religion, and that they may warn their folk when they return to them, so that they may beware." (At-Tawbah 9:122)


On the authority of Abu Sa'id al-Khudri, radiyallahu 'anhu, who said: I heard the Messenger of Allah, sallallahu 'alayhi wasallam, say:

"When any one of you sees anything that is disapproved (of by Allah), let him change it with his hand. If he is not able to do so, then let him change it with his tongue. And if he is not able to do so, then let him change it with his heart, though that is the weakest (kind of) faith."

[Muslim ]

We will not loose anything even if we believe in the hereafter.

and

did you know that in islam we are not suppose to waste water even in our wudhu'

Allah declares: “Verily Allah does not love the wasters.” On one occasion the Prophet (Pbuh) asked a person who was performing wudhu: “Why are you wasting water?” The person enquired: “Is there israaf even in wudhu?” The Prophet (Pbuh) replied: “Yes indeed, (do not waste) even if you are at the bank of a river.”

http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/S...EAskTheScholar

http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/S...EAskTheScholar

http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/S...EAskTheScholar

but...

(Lo! We offered the trust unto the heavens and the earth and the hills, but they shrank from bearing it and were afraid of it and man assumed it Lo! he is a tyrant and fool.) (Al-Ahzab 33: 72)

[glo]

Great thread, snakelegs! I have been reading it with great interest. :)

I believe in the afterlife too - but I find myself strangely unable to focus on the thereafter too much (some perhaps might say not enough!)

Although paradise is also pretty well described in the Bible, there seems to be too much to do whilst I breath, walk and talk, to really focus on that ...

Jesus' instructions to us seem pretty 'earth-bound': to love our neighbour, to care for the needy etc.

For me, following God is a pleasure on its own. Following Jesus' example seems thoroughly sensible to me (I am sure some would disagree).
Should at the point of my death the lights just go out and nothing else (as my husband tends to believe), then I would not feel that my life has been in vain ... it was still a good and worthy life to live!

There is so much to be glad about in life!
My atheist husband agrees (as, it appears, does czgibson) - so much wonder to look upon with awe and joy! You don't have to believe in God to have a sense of awe.

Something that has always worried me personally, has been Christian voices who would ignore environmental concerns on the basis that 'God promised to provide for us, and if our environment is dying, then it is a sign of the end times' ... :scared: (Luckily that kind of attitude seems to be lessening ...)
Surely, especially if you believe that this world is divinely created, you'd do your utmost to care for it and every life on it!!!

peace

[aamirsaab]

:sl:
Woah jeez. I didin't know it would cause THAT much controversy! :p

Ok, here is what I meant. Earth being a crap hole was in relation to Heaven. Indeed there is much beauty in this Earth, which I am greatful for, mostly because a lot of it hasn't been tainted by mankind. However, my comment meant that the evil in this world is what seperates it from Heaven. Basically, I was attempting to emphasise the difference between Heaven and Earth by downplaying Earth.

Once again, there is a lot of beauty in this Earth - for some however, it is not enough. In contrast, Heaven is a place where it is infinite in beauty. Pure bliss for mankind.

[czgibson]

Greetings,

why do you say that is not a solution?

Because pinning your hopes on something for which there's no evidence is not generally a good idea.

And, while I wasn't really sure what relevance it had to the topic at hand, yes, I did know those things you mentioned.

Peace

[snakelegs]

you're right... the life in this world is important. because the life of this world will have an effect in the hereafter.

For example, if ones love ones wife/husband within the islamic rules, did you know that they can be together until the hereafter?

We appreciate the things that Allah subhanahuwata'ala give, and we should be. Because thats the only way we can be humble.

If ibadah is...



then ones should appreciate everything Allah's subhanahuwata'ala created.

{And seek with that which Allah has given you the realm of the hereafter and do not neglect your portion in this life. And be gracious as Allah has been gracious to you. And do not seek corruption in the land for Allah does not love the corrupters.} Al-Qasas:77

But most probably your definition of dunya and islam...is different. lol...

In islam...dunya is about the lust, desire and nafs. :)

i think you are right. we all see the world through many filters - so i am seeing this from my own understanding and it is not what it seems to me to be.
i am still thinking about this. yes, my definition of dunya is different.
although i believe in god, i do not believe in an afterlife, which probably also makes it harder for me to understand.
your posts are helpful.

[snakelegs]

:sl:
Woah jeez. I didin't know it would cause THAT much controversy! :p

Ok, here is what I meant. Earth being a crap hole was in relation to Heaven. Indeed there is much beauty in this Earth, which I am greatful for, mostly because a lot of it hasn't been tainted by mankind. However, my comment meant that the evil in this world is what seperates it from Heaven. Basically, I was attempting to emphasise the difference between Heaven and Earth by downplaying Earth.

Once again, there is a lot of beauty in this Earth - for some however, it is not enough. In contrast, Heaven is a place where it is infinite in beauty. Pure bliss for mankind.

fair enough.
my apologies to you - it wasn't really your post, but it touched on something that i have wondered about for a long time, so it was quite handy. :D you have been exploited!

[snakelegs]

Something that has always worried me personally, has been Christian voices who would ignore environmental concerns on the basis that 'God promised to provide for us, and if our environment is dying, then it is a sign of the end times' ... :scared: (Luckily that kind of attitude seems to be lessening ...)
Surely, especially if you believe that this world is divinely created, you'd do your utmost to care for it and every life on it!!!

peace

yes - this is a concern as this type of thinking has gained power in our gov't. we once had a secretary of the interior who said that we didn't need to worry about our forests because jesus was coming back soon.
i don't think islam has this problem, i think it's just a christian problem and i don't think (?) most christians have this view.

[Eric H]

Greetings and peace be with you snakelegs,

although i believe in god, i do not believe in an afterlife, which probably also makes it harder for me to understand.

Forgive me snakelegs but I find your comments odd, you believe in a God but there is no afterlife that seems to suggest that life on Earth is the best that God can create.

This seems an inadequate God to me.

In the spirit of searching for a greatest, fair and just God.

Eric

[snakelegs]

Greetings and peace be with you snakelegs,


Forgive me snakelegs but I find your comments odd, you believe in a God but there is no afterlife that seems to suggest that life on Earth is the best that God can create.

This seems an inadequate God to me.

In the spirit of searching for a greatest, fair and just God.

Eric

i base my beliefs on my experience. i only came to believe in god within the last 10 years. i believe in no religion. nothing in my experience has led me to believe in an afterlife, but i cannot say that there is no such thing either.
i just don't know if god wants us to live forever....of course if he does, he can create anything he wants to.

[Intisar]

Snakelegs, I think this pretty much gives you a good answer to what you were looking for. Well, at least I hope it does, inshaa Allaah.

This is taken from an excerpt from ''The things that endure, good deeds'' by Shaykh Salman Al Oadah.

''The Qur'ân and Sunnah do not teach us to forsake or disparage our worldly lives in order to attain success in the Hereafter. The two worlds are not mutually exclusive. This is why the Qur'ân teaches us the supplication: "Our Lord! Give us the good in this world and the good of the Hereafter, and save us from the punishment of Hell."

People are not divided into those who aspire for this world and those who renounce the world to focus on the Hereafter. Not at all. Rather, the distinction is between those people who pin their hopes exclusively on their worldly existence and care nothing for the Hereafter, and those who seek the good in both.

Logic and common sense tell us that achieving the good in both this world and the Hereafter is the best possible scenario. A believer, therefore, does not renounce the world, but aspires to what is wholesome and good within it. We see that the prophets and Messengers – though they made great sacrifices, suffered rejection, and endured hardship and poverty for the sake of their faith – they were not people who lived in distress of the world. They were happy people, who were at peace with their worldly lives.

What Allah reminds us in these verses and others is that we should not get caught up in he pursuit of worldly rewards at the expense of the Hereafter. We should work for success in both, keeping in mind that the rewards of this world are transient and those of the Hereafter are eternal.

This is emphasized by the order of words in these verses. Allah says: "the things that endure, good deeds."

Allah could have said "enduring good deeds" or "good deeds that endure". Instead, Allah emphasizes the quality of permanence, drawing our attention to how it contrasts with worldly blessings like "wealth and children". Once this contrast is established strongly in our minds, we are then informed of the way we can attain these permanent blessings – by engaging in acts of righteousness.

This is powerful. Nothing causes worry for human beings more than the loss of what we have, the loss of wealth, of health, and the inevitable loss of youth. There is no stronger context, then, for us to be reminded of the enduring value of our good deeds.''

[MustafaMc]

This life and this world definitely have more value than a toilet. This life is an amazing gift even with all of its suffering and pain there is still a lot of beauty and kindness. However, we Muslims believe that as compared to the Hereafter, the suffering even of the Jews in the Nazi death camps of WWII does not hold a candle to that of those in Hell. Likewise, the pleasures enjoyed by the richest kings on earth can't compare to what will be enjoyed by the lowest ranking person in Heaven. As I said, this life has tremendous value in that how we spend it determines our Eternity. (copied from other thread)

As a cotton breeder and geneticist, I am amazed at the genetic blueprint for almost (some are parthenogenic) every living organism is defined at conception with the union of a single egg and a single sperm. All I can say is "Glory to Allah!"

[Keltoi]

As a Christian, we obviously await the return of Christ, but I wouldn't say the majority of Christians see no value in the Earth and all its resources and beauty. If you do not see the beauty in the world you do not see the beauty in God's creation.

That being said, if by the "world" we are referring to the domain of men and women, meaning the cities, wealth, drugs, violence, depravity, etc, then we are indeed talking about a toilet. Since it is hard to avoid this toilet, it becomes a testing ground for the human soul.

[Eric H]

Greetings and peace be with you snakelegs;

i base my beliefs on my experience. i only came to believe in god within the last 10 years.

Thanks for your reply and I have seen you mention belief in God before. There are two possibilities God the creator of the universe exists fully and totally, or there is no God. If God exists then he has to be as real as the chair I am sitting on. The meaning of a chair might be functionality, comfort, looks, but what is the greatest meaning of God?

The universe has been created; whatever you or I choose to believe about creation cannot alter the truth of a past event. If God the creator exists fully and totally then he has to be the most important being to you or I.

The God that cannot exist is the probably God, how can a God probably exist outside of our imagination? He either exists fully and totally or there is no God.

i believe in no religion. nothing in my experience has led me to believe in an afterlife, but i cannot say that there is no such thing either.

Religion is very different to God, and religion is very troubling for me too, the same God who created me and gave me a faith through Christianity also created you, and he created people of all faiths and no faith.
God chooses whom he wills but he seems to favour diversity.

i just don't know if god wants us to live forever....of course if he does, he can create anything he wants to.

If God wants us to live forever then surely it must be for a greater purpose than we witness here on Earth.

In the spirit of searching for a greatest meaning of one God,

Eric

[snakelegs]

Greetings and peace be with you snakelegs;

Thanks for your reply and I have seen you mention belief in God before. There are two possibilities God the creator of the universe exists fully and totally, or there is no God. If God exists then he has to be as real as the chair I am sitting on. The meaning of a chair might be functionality, comfort, looks, but what is the greatest meaning of God?

The universe has been created; whatever you or I choose to believe about creation cannot alter the truth of a past event. If God the creator exists fully and totally then he has to be the most important being to you or I.

The God that cannot exist is the probably God, how can a God probably exist outside of our imagination? He either exists fully and totally or there is no God.


Religion is very different to God, and religion is very troubling for me too, the same God who created me and gave me a faith through Christianity also created you, and he created people of all faiths and no faith.
God chooses whom he wills but he seems to favour diversity.



If God wants us to live forever then surely it must be for a greater purpose than we witness here on Earth.

In the spirit of searching for a greatest meaning of one God,

Eric

i would agree but when i came to believe in god, i first believed in the probably god.
now i don't - i believe in the one god, the creator of all (including an afterlife, if there is one)
i see religion more as an obstacle. (i've never belonged to one and wasn't raised in any.) i see religions as man-made institutions.
my understanding and beliefs have changed over the years and i don't rule anything out. for the first 5 decades of my life, i did not believe in god, though i've never been an atheist. as long as we live, there is room for change.

[Chuck]

how can you possibly believe this earth/life = crap hole?

It is not. In Quran it is not like that. Allah tells us to enjoy the good things in this life he has given, and by following his guidance we will get best of the both worlds, but this world is a temporary abode and he will gives us ease and hardship to test us who is best in deeds. So main focus is next-life.

Disclaimer: Not sure if this translation is entirely correct.

Blessed is He in Whose Hand is the dominion, and He has the Ability to do all things.
(He's the One) Who has created death and life, so He may test you which of you is best in deed. And He is the All-Mighty, the Oft-Forgiving;
(He's the One) Who has created the seven heavens one above another, you can see no fault in the creations of the Most Beneficent. Then look again: "Can you see any rifts?"
Then look again and yet again, your sight will return to you in a state of humiliation and worn out. [Holy Quran 67:1-4]

[*WhisSPeR...*]

LOL.

it's not that this world is crap or anything of such, it's just that we shouldn't be drawn in the 'what seems to be luxury' things. That is because the word will come to an end, as it won't last forever.

the akhirah compared to this is nothing, and only then will you realise it.

subhanallah the prophet *sallahu alyhe wassam* told us our life of this world is like a traveler..!

peace,:peace:

[syilla]

Greetings,


Because pinning your hopes on something for which there's no evidence is not generally a good idea.

Peace

oo...i better answer this before i forget huhu.

Do you know that in islam we are not just hoping but also we have to work for it.

And again...pinning hopes and working it is much better than not hoping and not working for it. What 'if' (in your definition) there is an after life? and for us...don't you think even there is no after life (again in your definition) we have nothing to loose

[glo]

Thank you for bringing this reminder of snakelegs back to our attention, syilla.
She sure liked to ponder and ask questions. I like to think that God delights in her! :)

[Muslim Woman]

:sl:

uh , what a shock . When I opened the thread , I did not expect to see snakeleg's post at all . I hope , she died with this firm beleive that God is one ; thus will be forgiven.

[*charisma*]

I love the nature of this world and the beauty that was created within it. However, as I awe at some of the most breath-taking scenery and discoveries, immediately the first thing I think of is Allah. This type of beauty is what separates me from thinking of the secular world--the world that is filled with futile desires that create dead hearts and instead I long to see my Creator and I long to see what is in Paradise.

Sunsets are beautiful, trees are amazing, oceans are soothing, but nothing in this world compares to what is awaiting us in Paradise, no matter the beautiful scenery we see, and this is done purposefully because it is merely a taste or less of Allah's capabilities. Yet honestly...not many people actually hesitate to notice these remarkable things..instead they turn to materialistic objects, money, status, and seeking ways to fulfill their desires. You don't get the same affect looking at a $100 like you would watching a baby inside its mother's womb, or watching the sky change as the sun rises in the morning.

There are more people who's attention turns towards the world seeking futile pleasure than there are people who turn their attention away from it seeking something above it. Therefore anything that has the capabilities of feeding our lower desires should not be wanted, and this world does just that!

peace

[Gator]

Thank you for bringing this reminder of snakelegs back to our attention, syilla.
She sure liked to ponder and ask questions. I like to think that God delights in her! :)

I was suprised to see a Snakelegs thread! Hoped for a second the news of her had been wrong.

She is missed.

[Predator]

Paradise is simply uncomparable to earth

[Beardo]

Originally Posted by aamirsaab:



i have kidnapped this from the thread on paradise.
i know this type of thinking is not uncommon among religious people. i find it incomprehensible and troubling.
how can you possibly believe this earth/life = crap hole?
god made this earth and gave you and me life, how can you disdain it? he made this planet and filled it full of beauty and things that are a source of constant wonder and awe.
you may think it is but a passing shadow compared to eternity but that does not mean that it is not wonderful and beautiful and full of miracles and much to be thankful for.

It's a debatable subject. I personally admire the flowers and nature's beauty, but it will all one day come to an end. All shall decay, and nothing lives on forever. That, my friend, is the only certain thing about life.

There is a poem in Arabic, and I will translate just one fragment of it... "The world is the field for the hereafter." The book is called Mufid ut Talibeen. You may or may not have heard of it. At any rate, it commentates into thus:

Everything good we do in this life, every seed we sow, is what we will harvest in the hereafter. Nobody likes to work. We may have a small vegetable garden in our backyard, but I highly doubt anyone of us here are farmers. And a farmers' life is very laborious. But the end product is very rewarding, if the upbringing of the harvest was good. We shall reap the benefits and rewards of the harvest in the world to come.

Work is like "c***". I think c*** is a bad word, so I'll replace it with poop. :D

This world is poop because there's so much injustice, bias-ness, and what have you. The world today has turned over. People dressing almost naked, tattered clothing, no modesty, no shame.

Everyone should be thankful. When saying this world is poop, we mean the injustices and unfairness. But we are thankful, most certainly, to the fact that Allah was kind to us. It's in Arabic poetry, a book called Mufid ut Talibeen, that "Be kind like how Allah was kind to you." Allah is and was kind, but the poem says "was". Poetry has it's own style. Anyhow, it's important to pass on the gratitude and kindness.

I could blab on forever so I'll cut it short here .:X

[aamirsaab]

:sl:
Er guys (and gals), old thread. Like, REALLY OLD THREAD.

[Beardo]

:sl:
Er guys (and gals), old thread. Like, REALLY OLD THREAD.

lol I just checked and realized... This thread is like 3 years old. LOLOLOL!!!

[Danah]

Oh snacklegs again!!
What happened to that running tiger in her siggy? Now I feel more her absence ):

Very interesting topic, life with all it's beautiness and problems is the bridge to reach the afterlife. Everything nice in this life is a sign for the greatness of Allah where we have to ponder over and always think about that supreme ability. So, I see this life as a grace because it leads to the afterlife. We can't ignore life easily as I am seeing it the class we learn at.
At the same time we should think further than this life to be as our ultimate goal because it's not really our final destination.

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

It's sad seeing her posts and her not here :/ I would hope she died a believer inshaAllah...and Allah knows best...

[Predator]

It's sad seeing her posts and her not here :/ I would hope she died a believer inshaAllah...and Allah knows best...

I hope so too. Maybe pronounce the Shahadah before dying

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

Yea...somehow I have dis feeling...but it's just a feeling lol...Allahu Alam.

[Uthman]

She did say Laa Ilaaha Illallah before she passed away. Look at this post: http://www.islamicboard.com/general/...ml#post1006661

I think threads like these bring sad memories for certain members. Would anybody like it to be closed?

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

I do know of her saying that...so as for the rest of it I said I have this feeling...and Allah knows best. inshaAllah I would hope so : )

You can close if you want. It is sad yes, but not bothering me.

[Grace Seeker]

Don't close it. It is sad, but also sweet to remember snakelegs. Threads like this seem to be a fitting memorial for her.

[barney]

Agree with Grace. Snakes was lovely, we often disagreed as fellow agnostics, but you could always count on her for thoughtful debate.

Miss ya Snakey.