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View Full Version : Benazir Bhutto Died



north_malaysian
12-27-2007, 01:42 PM
Source:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071227/...re_as/pakistan
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thinktank
12-27-2007, 01:46 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by north_malaysian
ajeeb! this will send shockwaves in pakistan
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Abdul-Raouf
12-27-2007, 02:07 PM
Inna Lillahi wa inna ilaihi rajio'n

Sad news... :( .. reportedly 15 people have died....

which includes Benazir Bhutto

She was leaving in a car ...after attendin a meeting ...she was shot ...shot in neck and head.....
and a bomb blasted...reportedly a suicide attack...





_______
Reply

rozeena
12-27-2007, 02:14 PM
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/7161590.stm
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DAWUD_adnan
12-27-2007, 02:26 PM
Ohhh Snapp... This is just wrong....
Reply

adeeb
12-27-2007, 02:28 PM
:-\:-\ oh my God.. innalillahi wa inna lillahi raji'un...

May Allah bless us always and show us the right path...

i'm speechless :cry::cry:
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ahsan28
12-27-2007, 02:30 PM
This woman had kids...she was a mother to these kids. Losing a mother is never easy at any age.I feel sad for them.
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czgibson
12-27-2007, 02:33 PM
Greetings,

This is terrible, shocking news. Pakistan will be in chaos for many more years to come.

Rest in Peace.

Removed reply to deleted post. Deleted post was condoning/praising violence and has been removed

Peace
Reply

aamirsaab
12-27-2007, 02:37 PM
:sl:
Though I did not like the actions of Benazir Bhutto, I wouldn't wish death upon her nor am I happy at her death. I think personally that it is horrible to rejoice at the death of anybody. Condemning someone I have no problems with, but to go as far as to rejoice in their death, that's just evil. To have that much hate inside of you, I honestly cannot fathom the reasons for.

As for Pakistan, we will have to wait for the situation to unfold. I hope that it will get better, without the need of violence.
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Amadeus85
12-27-2007, 02:44 PM
This tragedy is really shock. Who could do this?
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Abdul-Raouf
12-27-2007, 02:45 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by aamirsaab
:sl:
Though I did not like the actions of Benazir Bhutto, I wouldn't wish death upon her nor am I happy at her death. I think personally that it is horrible to rejoice at the death of anybody. Condemning someone I have no problems with, but to go as far as to rejoice in their death, that's just evil. To have that much hate inside of you, I honestly cannot fathom the reasons for.

As for Pakistan, we will have to wait for the situation to unfold. I hope that it will get better, without the need of violence.

Thats sensible brother...

Even I do not support A Women to Lead country...

But for that reason... I do not wish for her death...or an attack on her..


Bro Talha change ur attitude .....


______
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qassy!
12-27-2007, 02:49 PM
Benazir Bhutto assassinated!! how!!
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crayon
12-27-2007, 02:52 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by qassy!
Benazir Bhutto assassinated!! how!!
...with a gun?
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Muslim Knight
12-27-2007, 02:57 PM
I was shocked also. Even though I don't agree to her, I'm never glad that a life has to be taken.
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Muezzin
12-27-2007, 03:17 PM
Okay, lowdown on moderator actions taken on this thread:

Removed the original post praising violence. Removed the replies to it, so that the discussion doesn't get derailed. Moved it to World Affairs. Merged it with another thread about this topic.

Continue.
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qassy!
12-27-2007, 03:18 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by crayon
...with a gun?
i know

Im just abit shocked.!
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~Taalibah~
12-27-2007, 07:21 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Aaron85
This tragedy is really shock. Who could do this?
:sl:
Musharraf- organized by.
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snakelegs
12-27-2007, 07:34 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Sabeeha
:sl:
Musharraf- organized by.
i seriously doubt that.
i only hope there is not more bloodshed.
poor pakistan. poor pakistanis.
Reply

------
12-27-2007, 07:35 PM
:salamext:

*sigh*

Inna Lillahi wa inna ilaihi raji'oon imsad

Signs of the Day of Judgement are drawing closer...and we are unaware... in play and amusement of this world :(
Reply

wilberhum
12-27-2007, 07:43 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Sabeeha
:sl:
Musharraf- organized by.
There are so many violent military groups running around killing anyone that apposes them. Musharraf tries to eliminate those groups. Don't forget they have tried to kill him too.

Though I don't approve of Musharraf, I don't go stupid and make illogical accusations. :?
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chacha_jalebi
12-27-2007, 08:03 PM
well well well

i think the time has come for good old uncle musharraf to step down and for pakistan to undergo a massive change

also i think its stupid that people are burnin down banks and buses, the bank didnt kill her!!! but typical dum pakis always need a excuse to show themselfs

and all these other rulers nawaz sharif, whatever he aint shareef!!!! they just after power!

may Allah (swt) guide pakistanis and save the land from any bad and make them have god fearing rulers, ameen!!
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snakelegs
12-27-2007, 08:08 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by chacha_jalebi
well well well

i think the time has come for good old uncle musharraf to step down and for pakistan to undergo a massive change

also i think its stupid that people are burnin down banks and buses, the bank didnt kill her!!! but typical dum pakis always need a excuse to show themselfs

and all these other rulers nawaz sharif, whatever he aint shareef!!!! they just after power!

may Allah (swt) guide pakistanis and save the land from any bad and make them have god fearing rulers, ameen!!
question is - who will fill the vacuum?
i hope the rioting dies down and no more blood is shed.
i think the people know that no matter who heads the gov't, the people lose.
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chacha_jalebi
12-27-2007, 08:11 PM
personally musharraf has been good for pakistan socially, but islamically he hasnt

like the country has improved and stuff under him, im not really a political person so i dont know like a detailed discussion

personally i think pakistan needs a new re look like a restart inshallah
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ahsan28
12-27-2007, 08:12 PM
About 20 killed in blast after Benazir rally RAWALPINDI, Pakistan, Dec 27 (AP) An explosion went off shortly after opposition leader Benazir Bhutto addressed a political rally in Rawalpindi’s Liaquat Bagh, killing at least 20 people, witnesses said. An Associated Press reporter at the scene could see body parts and flesh scattered at the back gate of Liaquat Bagh. He counted about 20 bodies, including police, and could see many other wounded people. Police official Abdul Karim said Benazir had already left the area in her vehicle when the blast went off.

http://www.dawn.com/2007/12/27/welcome.htm

People are attacking police cars, setting on fire govt property, petrol pumps, shops are being closed obviously. There is a rage on the streets.
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ahsan28
12-27-2007, 08:17 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by chacha_jalebi
well well well

i think the time has come for good old uncle musharraf to step down and for pakistan to undergo a massive change
Ok, just assume, he has stepped down, tell us, how will Pakistan get rid of the violence and aggression?
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snakelegs
12-27-2007, 08:18 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by ahsan28
Ok, just assume, he has stepped down, tell us, how will Pakistan get rid of the violence and aggression?
yes - this is what i'd like to know. is there really any alternative?
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Keltoi
12-27-2007, 08:27 PM
As long as there are groups who feel they can achieve political aims through terror and violence there will be no peace.
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snakelegs
12-27-2007, 08:30 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Keltoi
As long as there are groups who feel they can achieve political aims through terror and violence there will be no peace.
al-qaeda has declared jihad on pakistan and 600-800 people have been killed since the red mosque incident last july.
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ahsan28
12-27-2007, 08:34 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by snakelegs
yes - this is what i'd like to know. is there really any alternative?
A big question perhaps. I really don't know. The solution is possible only, when innocent people quit supporting those, who are involved in spreading violence and terrorism, using religion as a tool.
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nevesirth
12-27-2007, 08:35 PM
al qaeda?
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truemuslim
12-27-2007, 08:41 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Abdul-Raouf
Inna Lillahi wa inna ilaihi rajio'n

Sad news... :( .. reportedly 15 people have died....

which includes Benazir Bhutto

She was leaving in a car ...after attendin a meeting ...she was shot ...shot in neck and head.....
and a bomb blasted...reportedly a suicide attack...





_______


ew...thats gotta hurt.... why do people do this????

format_quote Originally Posted by AhLÄÄM
:salamext:

*sigh*

Inna Lillahi wa inna ilaihi raji'oon imsad

Signs of the Day of Judgement are drawing closer...and we are unaware... in play and amusement of this world :(

yes i know... you should see my thread of signs of the last day..only like a few of them arent present yet... anyway... this isn't much of a surprise... i open the tv... about 3 channels had this... then i open the pc...msn homepage had it... and now here... anyway... reminds me of Martin Luthor King jr...did i spell that right...?...anyway...of course no one knows who shot him... and now prolly no one will know who shot her... anway :w:
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abbas_ali
12-27-2007, 08:41 PM
Man i am sick of Pakistan shooting itself in the foot!

I was no supporter of Bhutto, my mother who is from Pakistan and everyone talked about her in a negative manner due to the corruption claims but i wouldn't wish death on anyone.

This is very bad news for Pakistan - there is the possibility it will implode, i just hope rioting and stuff does not start.

To those who say Musharraf is the assailant please think, he had much to gain from Bhutto's presence, she had become a semi-ally of his and letting her come back made him look more tolerant and democratic.

The problem with Pakistan is and always has been is the very complicated relationship between politics and religion. A country which has spent a third of its 60yr existence under military rule is clearly in dire straits. I fear Pakistan is heading for the worst to be honest, just because so much has to change in a short space of time. Sometimes i wonder a secular Pakistan would be best, after all look at India.

Inshallah Allah will save Pakistan, but i am deeply worried.
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ahsan28
12-27-2007, 08:46 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by abbas_ali
Sometimes i wonder a secular Pakistan would be best, after all look at India.
India too has been experiencing problems.
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Belief_is_Power
12-27-2007, 08:51 PM
Yeah even I did not like this liberal lady, but killing her was not the way to go. however if she got elected she would have sent the army to fight and kill more so called "terrorists" muslims. So her death is both a curse and a blessing for Pakistan. OOOOH wellll, her real test is now with Allah.
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nevesirth
12-27-2007, 08:54 PM
the deed has been done............what will be will be....lets just wait and see
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ahsan28
12-27-2007, 08:54 PM
“I didn’t choose this life, it chose me,” she wrote in the introduction to her memoir, “Daughter of the East.”
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nevesirth
12-27-2007, 08:57 PM
she said she was ready to give her life just like her father and two brothers.........
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KAding
12-27-2007, 08:59 PM
It's getting worse and worse in Pakistan :(. Why is there no moderate alternative to the likes of Musharraf, Sharif and Bhutto? If they are so impopular and corrupt, why is there no vacuum that new reasonable faces can fill? Is there no charismatic non-violent 'Islamic' opposition? Or are there really only extremes in Pakistan?
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Keltoi
12-27-2007, 09:00 PM
Was it Bhutto who posed a threat to the extremists or simply democracy itself?
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S_87
12-27-2007, 09:17 PM
she knew what she was getting into returning to pakistan.
plus she was one corrupt woman.

plus she wanted to make pakistan more secular and pleasing to the west.
basically a puppet.
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M..x
12-27-2007, 09:41 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by chacha_jalebi
well well well

i think the time has come for good old uncle musharraf to step down and for pakistan to undergo a massive change

also i think its stupid that people are burnin down banks and buses, the bank didnt kill her!!! but typical dum pakis always need a excuse to show themselfs

and all these other rulers nawaz sharif, whatever he aint shareef!!!! they just after power!

may Allah (swt) guide pakistanis and save the land from any bad and make them have god fearing rulers, ameen!!
*eyes rolly*
Yano i'm just shhocked, though i didnt necessarily aggree wif her ideology as aamirsaab said, wouldnt wish that upon anyone...Some heartless twisted person killed her & his sentence will be served inshAllah...May Allah rest ha soul in peace & grant her the death of a martyr...
Az for tha retaliation and the conflict as a result of her death, May Allah be their guides...Pakistan is in turmoil, its a wrecked state & its a shame musharraf janaab cant see that :muddlehea
Peace
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M..x
12-27-2007, 09:43 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by amani
she knew what she was getting into returning to pakistan.
plus she was one corrupt woman.

plus she wanted to make pakistan more secular and pleasing to the west.
basically a puppet.
Yano no disrespect but like corrupt? Its a strong word to label someone with that....I mean i DONT always aggree wif everthing she said esp about the Laal Masjid incident but i dont quite know if thats a words i would describe her using....May Allah have mercy on her soul...One thing i really admire is her determination...She waz a fighter a say tha least?...No offence intended... Salaamz n that
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wilberhum
12-27-2007, 09:45 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Belief_is_Power
Yeah even I did not like this liberal lady, but killing her was not the way to go. however if she got elected she would have sent the army to fight and kill more so called "terrorists" muslims. So her death is both a curse and a blessing for Pakistan. OOOOH wellll, her real test is now with Allah.
So you conceder "so called "terrorists" muslims" a blessing? :muddlehea:hiding:
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snakelegs
12-27-2007, 09:53 PM
i hope the rioting dies down and does not continue in to tomorrow.
it looks like there may have to be martial law....again.
how many more people must die? :unhappy:
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abbas_ali
12-27-2007, 09:55 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by nevesirth
the deed has been done............what will be will be....lets just wait and see
i don't think there is anything wrong with liberal per se, i'm glad i live in a country where despite recent events we live in a liberal democray where generally speak most things and people are accepted and tolerated - although it clearly isn't perfect.

I didn't like it when she said "moderate Pakistan" though, because she wanted a place where islam was firmly in the background and people led their life the way the West wanted.
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Cognescenti
12-27-2007, 10:05 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by truemuslim
...... reminds me of Martin Luthor King jr...did i spell that right...?...anyway...of course no one knows who shot him... and now prolly no one will know who shot her... anway :w:
A Martin Luther King assassination conspiracy on LI Islamic Forum?? That is a new one.

As for the shooter in this case, they should look for the torso with no arms, legs or head. That should narrow it down.
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truemuslim
12-27-2007, 10:27 PM
^^^ ew...
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Cognescenti
12-27-2007, 10:31 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by amani
she knew what she was getting into returning to pakistan.
plus she was one corrupt woman.

plus she wanted to make pakistan more secular and pleasing to the west.
basically a puppet.
Wow. It sounds like we have half a dozen here ready to step up into the void left by the tragic death of the homicide bomber.


"Puppet of the West"???? Oh man. This is going to be a long war. Is anyone else getting a bad feeling?
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czgibson
12-27-2007, 10:37 PM
Greetings,
format_quote Originally Posted by Cognescenti
Wow. It sounds like we have half a dozen here ready to step up into the void left by the tragic death of the homicide bomber.
And that's perhaps even without the posts that were deleted...


"Puppet of the West"???? Oh man. This is going to be a long war. Is anyone else getting a bad feeling?
You bet.

Peace
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north_malaysian
12-27-2007, 10:41 PM
Why people rioting after her death?

I think it could be an excuse for Musharraf to call "emergency rule" again....
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Umm Hurairah
12-27-2007, 10:41 PM
Asalaamualaikum Warahmatullahi Wabarakatu,

Inna Nillahi Wa Ina Ilaihi Rajioon

"And it may be that you like something which is bad for you, and you dislike something which is good for you; Allah knows and you do not."
Reply

Qingu
12-27-2007, 11:45 PM
A secular, West-friendly, outspoken, female politician is assassinated in an Islamic country by a suicide bomber.

I'm shocked.
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KAding
12-28-2007, 12:22 AM
The fact that she was killed in a so-called 'martyrdom operation'/suicide bombing kinda points in the direction of religious radicals, does it not? Or are there examples out there of secular extremists blowing themselves up for the cause? Are there Musharraf supporters using such tactics?
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The_Prince
12-28-2007, 12:28 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Qingu
A secular, West-friendly, outspoken, female politician is assassinated in an Islamic country by a suicide bomber.

I'm shocked.
yup it isnt suprising when you think of it, its secular nations who have been attacking and occupying and destabilising Muslim countries for the past century....either they forcefully occupy, or they make a covert coup i.e. operation ajax, or they install dictators providing them with huge money and support i.e. saddam, musharif, mubarak etc etc etc....so its not suprising at all that a person from this group would be assasinated.
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Grace Seeker
12-28-2007, 12:48 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by The_Prince
yup it isnt suprising when you think of it, its secular nations who have been attacking and occupying and destabilising Muslim countries for the past century....either they forcefully occupy, or they make a covert coup i.e. operation ajax, or they install dictators providing them with huge money and support i.e. saddam, musharif, mubarak etc etc etc....so its not suprising at all that a person from this group would be assasinated.

Maybe so. But Musharif, not Bhutto, was the "puppet" of the USA. I think Musharif did not believe all the things he has done, but has done them to stay in power, and if that means being the "puppet" of the West then he is happy to be that. Bhutto on the other hand, struck me as her own woman. She was not pro-democracy to appease the western democracies, she was pro-democracy for Pakistan because she according to her own principals she truly believed it was best for Pakistan. If that made the West happy, she was OK with that and could cooperate with them. And if it had not pleased the West, she still would have held the same views.

Bhutto has said in October that although she was no fool to think that her life was safe, she had nothing to fear from a "true Muslim". Yet, I agree with those who say that they suspect that the assassin must surely was motivated by "religious" reasons even more than politcal (not that the two are inextricably mixed). So, does this mean that Bhutto was wrong, or does this mean that some who are "religously" motivated are not "true Muslims"?
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wilberhum
12-28-2007, 01:05 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by The_Prince
yup it isnt suprising when you think of it, its secular nations who have been attacking and occupying and destabilising Muslim countries for the past century....either they forcefully occupy, or they make a covert coup i.e. operation ajax, or they install dictators providing them with huge money and support i.e. saddam, musharif, mubarak etc etc etc....so its not suprising at all that a person from this group would be assasinated.
That sounds a lot like you are supporting the killing.
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Qingu
12-28-2007, 01:27 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by The_Prince
yup it isnt suprising when you think of it, its secular nations who have been attacking and occupying and destabilising Muslim countries for the past century....either they forcefully occupy, or they make a covert coup i.e. operation ajax, or they install dictators providing them with huge money and support i.e. saddam, musharif, mubarak etc etc etc....so its not suprising at all that a person from this group would be assasinated.
Please. Muslims have been assassinating people a long time before there ever was a "West."

In fact, assassination seems to be a common theme in Islam's history, right down to the very beginning with Uthman's assassination. Before that, actually—since the Prophet ordered the assassinations of poets who criticized him. Even the word "assassin" comes from Muslims.

So I'm not surprised that Muslims have assassinated yet another person they don't like; they have a long and storied tradition of assassinations to back them up.

Nor am I surprised to see Muslims like yourself eager to blame it all on the West. Because that never gets old.
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Cognescenti
12-28-2007, 02:44 AM
Point of clarification. Just so we are on the same page, I propose we settle on a definition of "puppet of the West".

How about these features?

1) Attended a "Western" university (and, of course, acquired poisonous ideas).

2) Female and refuses to walk behind her husband.

3) Advocacy for democracy and the poor.
Reply

snakelegs
12-28-2007, 07:07 AM
Pakistan: Al-Qaeda claims Bhutto's death

Karachi, 27 Dec. (AKI) - (by Syed Saleem Shahzad) - A spokesperson for the al-Qaeda terrorist network has claimed responsibility for the death on Thursday of former Pakistani prime minister Benazir Bhutto.

“We terminated the most precious American asset which vowed to defeat [the] mujahadeen,” Al-Qaeda’s commander and main spokesperson Mustafa Abu Al-Yazid told Adnkronos International (AKI) in a phone call from an unknown location, speaking in faltering English. Al-Yazid is the main al-Qaeda commander in Afghanistan.

It is believed that the decision to kill Bhutto, who is the leader of the opposition Pakistan People's Party (PPP), was made by al-Qaeda No. 2, the Egyptian doctor, Ayman al-Zawahiri in October.

full story
http://www.adnkronos.com/AKI/English...1.0.1710322437
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Uthman
12-28-2007, 10:38 AM
Shocking. Very sad news.

Btw, loads of Islam bashing going on because of this at the Have your say section on the BBC website.

Might I propose that some of us post there too?
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czgibson
12-28-2007, 10:55 AM
Greetings,
format_quote Originally Posted by Osman
Shocking. Very sad news.

Btw, loads of Islam bashing going on because of this at the Have your say section on the BBC website.

Might I propose that some of us post there too?
Done. :thumbs_up

What is needed there are Muslim voices condemning this action, and lots of them. I know it's demeaning having to constantly "apologise" for things like this, but, people, it's up to you to show the bigots they are wrong.

Peace
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aamirsaab
12-28-2007, 11:16 AM
:sl:
format_quote Originally Posted by Qingu
So I'm not surprised that Muslims have assassinated yet another person they don't like; they have a long and storied tradition of assassinations to back them up.
Sweeping statements are not cool senor.

format_quote Originally Posted by Osman
Shocking. Very sad news.

Btw, loads of Islam bashing going on because of this at the Have your say section on the BBC website.

Might I propose that some of us post there too?
I would post on that site, but I doubt it will make a difference since their comments are just plain stupid and usual anti-islamic rhetoric.

format_quote Originally Posted by czgibson
What is needed there are Muslim voices condemning this action, and lots of them. I know it's demeaning having to constantly "apologise" for things like this, but, people, it's up to you to show the bigots they are wrong.

Peace
Indeed. However, it is too difficult to reason with those kinds of people over the internet. I've seen the tactics certain idiotas use on the internet and quite frankly I'm tired of debating with them - I get a better response from a brick wall. Whereas, debating in person I find much easier.
Reply

czgibson
12-28-2007, 11:20 AM
Greetings,
format_quote Originally Posted by aamirsaab
Indeed. However, it is too difficult to reason with those kinds of people over the internet. I've seen the tactics certain idiotas use on the internet and quite frankly I'm tired of debating with them - I get a better response from a brick wall. Whereas, debating in person I find much easier.
Then you're giving the bigots free rein.

All it needs is for as many Muslims as possible to post messages saying "not in my name" or something to that effect. You don't need to argue with them - as you rightly say there would be no point - simply make your position clear for all to see.

Peace
Reply

Uthman
12-28-2007, 11:24 AM
But Aamir we can make a difference! We can!

I know it isn't easy, but I can't sit here and read these things and not do anything about it. I won't.

Remember the good ol' days when we had them LI campaigns to infiltrate other forums and teach em' about Islam? :D

If just one person reads our comments and it makes them reconsider their point of view, then our efforts are worthwhile.

format_quote Originally Posted by czgibson
Done. :thumbs_up

What is needed there are Muslim voices condemning this action, and lots of them. I know it's demeaning having to constantly "apologise" for things like this, but, people, it's up to you to show the bigots they are wrong.

Peace
Thanks Mr G. :)

People can also help by recommending the comments that they agree with by hitting the 'recommend' button below it.
Reply

S_87
12-28-2007, 12:11 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by x MuslimGyal x
Yano no disrespect but like corrupt? Its a strong word to label someone with that....I mean i DONT always aggree wif everthing she said esp about the Laal Masjid incident but i dont quite know if thats a words i would describe her using....May Allah have mercy on her soul...One thing i really admire is her determination...She waz a fighter a say tha least?...No offence intended... Salaamz n that
yes corrupt. her father was killed for corruption and she too was corrupt. before she re entered pakistan those charges had to be dropped from her. she was corrupt 100%
she was a fighter for secularism :)
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S_87
12-28-2007, 12:13 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Cognescenti
Wow. It sounds like we have half a dozen here ready to step up into the void left by the tragic death of the homicide bomber.


"Puppet of the West"???? Oh man. This is going to be a long war. Is anyone else getting a bad feeling?
if u had someone fighting to put shariah law in the US like benazir wanter secular law in pakistan wouldnt you want them dead and oppose them ?
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czgibson
12-28-2007, 12:15 PM
Greetings,
format_quote Originally Posted by amani
if u had someone fighting to put shariah law in the US like benazir wanter secular law in pakistan wouldnt you want them dead and oppose them ?
I would never wish anyone dead. What makes you think it's OK to kill people?

Peace
Reply

S_87
12-28-2007, 12:21 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by czgibson
Greetings,


I would never wish anyone dead. What makes you think it's OK to kill people?

Peace
would i be right to think usama bin laden would be safe in ur hands? :)
i dont think its ok to kill people. but she knew it was coming did she not?
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czgibson
12-28-2007, 12:24 PM
Greetings,
format_quote Originally Posted by amani
would i be right to think usama bin laden would be safe in ur hands? :)
I wouldn't kill him, if that's what you're asking. What would that achieve?

i dont think its ok to kill people.
Then why say things like: "if u had someone fighting to put shariah law in the US like benazir wanter secular law in pakistan wouldnt you want them dead and oppose them ?"

but she knew it was coming did she not?
Of course she did. She knew the kind of nutcases that were all around her baying for her blood. That obviously doesn't make it right, though.

Peace
Reply

S_87
12-28-2007, 12:28 PM
Then why say things like: "if u had someone fighting to put shariah law in the US like benazir wanter secular law in pakistan wouldnt you want them dead and oppose them ?"
it was in response to someone elses post ...i want to see the persons reaction and answer...
Reply

The_Prince
12-28-2007, 12:36 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Qingu
Please. Muslims have been assassinating people a long time before there ever was a "West."

In fact, assassination seems to be a common theme in Islam's history, right down to the very beginning with Uthman's assassination. Before that, actually—since the Prophet ordered the assassinations of poets who criticized him. Even the word "assassin" comes from Muslims.

So I'm not surprised that Muslims have assassinated yet another person they don't like; they have a long and storied tradition of assassinations to back them up.

Nor am I surprised to see Muslims like yourself eager to blame it all on the West. Because that never gets old.
this is the typical western spin, why dont we look at this situation in its proper context with the context i responded with to your statement. obviously you have a hard time following your argument.

you said it wasnt suprising that a western supporter and secular got assasinated, and i said indeed it isnt because of all the crimes and aggression the western secular world has done against Muslim countries in the past 100 hundred years..

your response? none, so what do you do? change topic and start bringing up history from 1400 years ago which isnt relevent at all to anything going on right now, but its okay, anti-Islamic goons like you will never take responsibility, you feel you are the only one who has a right to speak against Muslims but not the other way round, and if a Muslim does expose you, what do you do? you spin it like you just did now.

so instead of ranting with your stupid Islamphobe antics why didnt you bother adressing what i said? such as 100 years of western secular aggression against the Muslim world, covert coups, and support of puppet dictators, i know you cant, so its easy to start spewing garbage.

secondly, you are a liar, you may be able to carry your lies with Muslims who dont know Islamic history, but this isnt your lucky day since i am an apologist, the prophet Muhammad NEVER killed any poet for speaking against him....you see you are a liar, the prophet killed poets who INCITED VIOLENCE AND MURDER against him, and his fellow Muslims, that is the part you left out, but since its in your nature to lie i know you would leave that out. someone who incites violence and murder is no different than the one who carries the sword, hence the prophet was PERFECTLY justified in calling for their deaths....heck USA does the same thing! i dont see you nagging when they do it, so plz your lies dont work here, but its ok u can keep the lies, it will be to your lost when you burn in the pits of hell to eat from the tree of Zaqqum.

as for Islam having a long line of assasinations, you mean Islam or the western world? again, be consistent, if your trying to make Islam look bad because of assasinations then i guess your people are the biggest backward barbaric murderors on the face of this planet, so lol you obviously dont know how to build a consistent coherent argument.

but again, DONT GO OFF ON A TANGENT, you made the comments, i responded, respond to the appropriate context, or just keep your mouth shut, but i dont blame you, your pretty thick like most of your people, you cant respond to facts, all you can respond with is ISLAM THIS! ISLAM THAT! and as i said you are thick so you can be excused.
Reply

czgibson
12-28-2007, 12:39 PM
Greetings,
format_quote Originally Posted by amani
it was in response to someone elses post ...i want to see the persons reaction and answer...
That's irrelevant. You've basically implied that you support murder. Well done!

Peace
Reply

The_Prince
12-28-2007, 12:43 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by wilberhum
That sounds a lot like you are supporting the killing.
no it doesnt, your just a western bigoted idiot, everytime a Muslim speaks facts you respond by saying hmm looks like you support murder!

i challenge you to show me where i supported her murder? go on, you will not be able to find it, and for that you are a bigoted idiot, i hope admins dont take this down, this guy accuses me of supporting a murder with no proof, so therefore i have every right to call him a bigoted idiot which he is indeed, he simply stated i supported the murder because i am Muslim plane and simple.

in my comments i made statements of FACT, that in the past 100 years western secular nations have been either forecefully occupying Muslim lands, or carrying our covert coups, or supporting dictators, so therefore indeed it isnt suprising if a supporter and stooge of this ideology and group is killed by some Islamic groups.....tell me how does that mean i support her killing? im just stating a fact that there will be many many angry ppl who will want to take actions against these type of people, and when you look at their history, then it isnt suprising to see why some Muslims would want to take action, and this is common sense. but offcourse your a bigoted idiot you couldnt actually respond to the facts i made because they were all true, so what do you do? the typical western spin: "erm he sounds like he supports death!"

see folks this is becomming a very sickening pattern amongst many westerners, whenever a Muslim legitimitly speaks against oppresion against them westerners will accuse them of being terrorists or sympathisers to terrorism, or they will respond by saying oooooooooooo how can a Muslim even dare speak against violence when Muslims are blowing things up! they are trying to silence the Muslims, and this fool willy boy and the other idiot Qingy are good examples of it.

this willy boy accuses me of supporting murder, and the other fool qingy goes on a rant against Islam, so as you can see, they dont want Muslims to speak against oppresion being commited against us.
Reply

The_Prince
12-28-2007, 01:01 PM
you know whats funny is that so many ppl are using this to bash Islam and Muslims, while Bhutto herself was a Muslim! in the same sentence that they bash Muslims and Islam as backward violent barbarians, they go on to praise what a brave wonderful woman bhutto was, remember she was Muslim! so how does that work?

these people could care less about bhutto, they are just using her for their own agenda to bash Muslims, its so funny these same anti-Muslims always say deport all Muslims that were all evil ppl who deserve to be sent to concentration camps or be nuked, yet when a Muslim dies they start showing sympathy?

its pretty much like the holocaust victims, zionists and western neo-con crusaders could care less about the jewish victims of the nazis, but they will keep bringing them up for their own agenda.
Reply

Cognescenti
12-28-2007, 02:42 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by amani
if u had someone fighting to put shariah law in the US like benazir wanter secular law in pakistan wouldnt you want them dead and oppose them ?
If they snuck into the US on an expired student visa, took flying lessons but didn't want to learn how to land, hijacked a plane and were determined to bring shariah to the US by flying a jetliner into a big building at 500 mph and immolate a few thousand people....then...yes, I would want the President to order an F-16 pilot to shoot them down, which would likely cause them great bodily harm.

On the other hand, if they were lawfully engaging in open political debate then of course I would not wish them dead. That you would ask such a silly question (by "Western" standards) only serves to demonstrate the vast gulf of understanding between us and makes me lament what is to come. If there are many like you, and I suspect there are, then we are looking at least at a generation of struggle.
Reply

Shorty x
12-28-2007, 02:50 PM
Salaam,

I just want to say that after hearing the news of Bhuttos assassination , i was horrified to learn that muslims are behaving this way. what will the rest of the non muslims think of islam now? jus when we are trying to help them believe that islam is a peaceful religion. Its idiots like that who cause controversy around the world!!!!!!!

May jannat be upon Benazir Bhutto, she was a wonderful lady.
and may those responsible be punished and brought to justice.

Aslama alaikum.
Reply

al_islam
12-28-2007, 02:55 PM
Benazir was a shiite. Accept it.

It doesnt mean that is the sole reason for hatred.

She was corrupt, she mas milked the country,she has commited crimes against Pakistan.

She was alos an Oxford Graduate, very educated and smart women.

She is a national treasure, and should be treated like one. How many relatives of yours can go and lead Pakistan ?

May Allah grant her Janat.
Reply

Soulja Girl
12-28-2007, 02:57 PM
:sl:

format_quote Originally Posted by Shorty x
she was a wonderful lady.
^Was she? :-\

format_quote Originally Posted by Shorty x
and may those responsible be punished and brought to justice.
^Certainly.

May Allah grant her Janat.
^Ameen. :)

:w:
Reply

Uthman
12-28-2007, 03:03 PM
Muslims pray for murdered Bhutto

Prayers have been said at mosques across the West Midlands for Pakistan's former prime minister Benazir Bhutto.

The country's opposition leader was among at least 17 killed in a suicide attack in Rawalpindi on Thursday.

Birmingham Perry Barr Labour MP Khalid Mahmood, who is currently in Pakistan, said he was "horrified and saddened".

Ms Bhutto had visited the Midlands during her lifetime, most recently in 1999 when she gave a speech at a rally for her supporters in Birmingham.

Mr Mahmood, who is in Islamabad on government business, said Ms Bhutto had died because of her commitment to democracy.

He said: "This is somebody who has always believed in the democratic cause.

"She lost her father and two brothers to that cause and now she has paid the ultimate price with her own life.

"My thoughts are with her three children."

People are far removed from Pakistan and they're involved in the British situation


Mohammed Naseem, Birmingham Central Mosque Chairman

The Foreign Office has updated its travel advice for Pakistan, warning against all but essential travel.

The BBC's Birmingham-based Asian Network suspended its schedule on Thursday for a three-hour special programme reacting to the events in Pakistan.

Salma Yaqoob, Respect councillor for Sparkbrook, said some feared the country would "descend into civil war".

"We're all fearful now about what's going to happen next," she said.

"There's no doubt it's going to be thrown into turmoil, more instability.

"People are worried it may actually descend into civil war."

North Staffordshire businesswoman Parveen Siddique was at Oxford University with Ms Bhutto.

She said: "It is a very, very great loss to Pakistan.

"Overall, she was a friend of Pakistan - it was her passion to make a difference there. She came back with the intention that she wanted to be the big change there, so it really is a big loss."

Source
Reply

Uthman
12-28-2007, 03:12 PM
Muslims offer prayers for Bhutto

British Asian reaction


British Muslims have offered prayers for the former Pakistani leader Benazir Bhutto, who was assassinated by a suicide bomber.

Special prayers were said at Birmingham Central Mosque following the usual Friday service.

Worshippers paid tribute to Ms Bhutto as they gathered for prayers.
Mosque regular Dr Mohammad Ijaz said: "She was a popular leader and her father was a great politician. It is a tragic loss of life."

Fellow worshipper Rabnawaz Chughtai, 41, said: "Pakistan's future position is dark now, because we have lost a leader. She represented not just Pakistan, but all over the world."

"We have lost her, but there are more leaders who can hopefully combat that and bring the democracy back."

Most people have been in contact with their loved ones in Pakistan and have been trying to find out what the latest position is


Mohammad Bashir

But Mr Chughtai said Pakistan now needed to get rid of President Musharraf's regime. "He is in the way of democracy," he said.

Mohammad Bashir said: "Benazir Bhutto is a world-class statesman who was renowned throughout the world, not just in Pakistan.

"She was a very charismatic personality and intellectual character. Most people have been in contact with their loved ones in Pakistan and have been trying to find out what the latest position is.

"In most major cities there has been upheaval and unrest."

Mosque chairman Dr Mohammed Naseem urged the people of Pakistan not to let the assassination destroy democracy.

Dr Naseem also called on Pakistanis to remain calm as violence erupted in the country amid fears of civil war breaking out.

Build democracy


He said the country's citizens should "take time to come together and say we are not letting anybody disrupt our process of democracy.

"Destroying property and killing people is senseless. Gun law is not the right law for any country."

Prime Minister Gordon Brown telephoned President Pervez Musharraf to pass on Britain's condolences and support.

Mr Brown urged Mr Musharraf to "stick to the course he has outlined to build democracy and stability in Pakistan".

The country, presently in the clutches of military, is being held at ransom by anti-democratic and terrorist forces


Ishtiaq Ahmed
Bradford Council of Mosques

Salma Yaqoob, Respect councillor for Birmingham's Sparkbrook area, said that Ms Bhutto was a charismatic figure who came to Birmingham quite often where she was "always well received."

She added that many Muslims in Birmingham had families in Pakistan and feared for their safety as riots later erupted in several Pakistani cities in the hours after the assassination.

The Archbishop of Birmingham, the Most Reverend Vincent Nichols, said the city's Catholic community would also be praying for Ms Bhutto and her family.

He said: "The assassination of Benazir Bhutto is a terrible crime which creates a critical situation in Pakistan.

"We shall also be praying for Ms Bhutto and her family."

In Bradford, where about 70,000 people of Pakistani origin live, the killing was condemned as a "sad day" for the country and a threat to democracy.

'Terrorist forces'


Bradford Council of Mosques spokesman Ishtiaq Ahmed said: "The murder of Benazir Bhutto is a major setback to restoring democracy in Pakistan.

"The country, presently in the clutches of military, is being held at ransom by anti-democratic and terrorist forces."

Bradford was a major support base for Mrs Bhutto's political party, the PPP.

Mohammed Akram, from the Hanfia mosque in the city, said people would be anxious to find out who was behind the killing.

"We're shocked and we're very sad when we heard this news," he told BBC Radio 5 Live.

"She had a lot of supporters in Bradford. In fact, her father had a lot of support and since then she was like a Bradfordian to us."

Earlier, the prime minister condemned the attack as "a cowardly terrorist act designed to destabilise democratic elections".

He told President Musharraf: "The international community is united in its outrage and determination that those who stoop to such tactics shall not prevail.

"This deadly attack is also a potent reminder of the threat we face from terror.

"Pakistan is a major ally in the global effort to combat this menace."

Mr Brown also pledged his support in the "efforts to destroy al Qaeda" during the conversation with Mr Musharraf, Downing Street said.

Foreign Secretary David Miliband called the bombing, which killed about 20 people, a "senseless attack".

The Tories said it was "an appalling act of terrorism" and the Lib Dems called it a "hammer blow" to democracy in Pakistan.

Source
Reply

~Taalibah~
12-28-2007, 03:13 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by wilberhum
There are so many violent military groups running around killing anyone that apposes them. Musharraf tries to eliminate those groups. Don't forget they have tried to kill him too.

Though I don't approve of Musharraf, I don't go stupid and make illogical accusations. :?
He is the one able gain by her death, think. Anyway it was just a guess. We don't know who is responsible. Its always possible for her party to have tried killing him and vice versa.
format_quote Originally Posted by snakelegs
Pakistan: Al-Qaeda claims Bhutto's death

Karachi, 27 Dec. (AKI) - (by Syed Saleem Shahzad) - A spokesperson for the al-Qaeda terrorist network has claimed responsibility for the death on Thursday of former Pakistani prime minister Benazir Bhutto.

“We terminated the most precious American asset which vowed to defeat [the] mujahadeen,” Al-Qaeda’s commander and main spokesperson Mustafa Abu Al-Yazid told Adnkronos International (AKI) in a phone call from an unknown location, speaking in faltering English. Al-Yazid is the main al-Qaeda commander in Afghanistan.

It is believed that the decision to kill Bhutto, who is the leader of the opposition Pakistan People's Party (PPP), was made by al-Qaeda No. 2, the Egyptian doctor, Ayman al-Zawahiri in October.

full story
http://www.adnkronos.com/AKI/English...1.0.1710322437
Al Qaida and Islamic extremists. Is there anyone else out there?:uhwhat

What saddens me is the state Pakistaan is in! Ya Allah, what a mess. Very true Qiyaamat is near. The only time the Muslim Ummat is going to rise again is with Imam Mehdi. Is it not so?
Reply

~Taalibah~
12-28-2007, 03:19 PM
Originally Posted by Cognescenti View Post
Wow. It sounds like we have half a dozen here ready to step up into the void left by the tragic death of the homicide bomber.
"Puppet of the West"???? Oh man. This is going to be a long war. Is anyone else getting a bad feeling?
Both her and Musharraf.

"The United States strongly condemns this cowardly act by murderous extremists who are trying to undermine Pakistan's democracy," said Bush, who looked tense and took no questions.
Does it look like this chap had his apple cart upset?:hmm:
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S_87
12-28-2007, 03:24 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by czgibson
Greetings,


That's irrelevant. You've basically implied that you support murder. Well done!

Peace
Thanks but i actually wanted to see the persons reaction.
if youre wondering if im sad about her death then the answer is no.

May jannat be upon Benazir Bhutto, she was a wonderful lady.
and may those responsible be punished and brought to justice.
she wanted to get rid of Islam in Pakistan. she wanted secularism. how is that wonderful sister?
Reply

Muslim Knight
12-28-2007, 03:37 PM
And at that, why don't we heap all curses upon Yazid for causing the death of the Prophet's grandson, Husayn.

Grow up dear. There's nothing to be gained from backbiting a dead person. Big or small her sins to Islam, no one has the right to kill her off like that. All previous discussions in this forum have concluded that there is no vigilante justice in Islam. If we're professing to be good Muslims, let's start by properly giving due regard to the the shariah.

Can someone close this thread please. There's nothing so Islamic or Sunnah-wise from cursing the dead.
Reply

thinktank
12-28-2007, 03:41 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by KAding
The fact that she was killed in a so-called 'martyrdom operation'/suicide bombing kinda points in the direction of religious radicals, does it not? Or are there examples out there of secular extremists blowing themselves up for the cause? Are there Musharraf supporters using such tactics?
just a slight diversion, your talking as if its only them who commit political assasinations, the west does it all the time albeit covertly, likewise israel does it every other day when killing members of hamas etc, i think the lot are mad!

anyway what really bugs me is the collatoral dammage this has caused, the killer killed her by gunfire why the heck did he need to takeout another 20 ppl!?
Reply

Cognescenti
12-28-2007, 03:53 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Sabeeha
Both her and Musharraf.

Bhutto held pro-democratic ideals, but they were her own ideals. She wasn't taking orders from Washington.

Musharraf is more of a "kept man" than a puppet. His options after 9-11 were limited. Dick Cheney paid him a nice visit and told him "you will cooperate in the War on Terror or we will bomb the **** out of you". It's called diplomacy ;D


Does it look like this chap had his apple cart upset?:hmm:
What do you expect Bush to do? You don't think there is a US contingency plan to attack the tribal areas of Pakistan? I guarantee there is also a contingency plan to seize or destroy Pakistan's nuclear inventory should the country fall into complete chaos. Is that what you want? The truth is, Pakistan is so screwed up, at least for now, that only a leader with the support of the military has a chance to retain order. Honestly, I don't recall a time in my lifetime when Pakistan wasn't screwed up but maybe I am beign too harsh. I don't find the whole thing very funny. A lot of people could get killed.

The other curious thing is Mr. Zawahari, with his giant pulsating brain, may have shot himself in his dung-covered foot. He wants the Dems to win the US election then he does things which push voters toward security candidates (ie Republicans like Giuliani..who used to be the Mayor of New York and is kind of angry about 9-11)
Reply

KAding
12-28-2007, 04:04 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by The_Prince
you know whats funny is that so many ppl are using this to bash Islam and Muslims, while Bhutto herself was a Muslim! in the same sentence that they bash Muslims and Islam as backward violent barbarians, they go on to praise what a brave wonderful woman bhutto was, remember she was Muslim! so how does that work?
Indeed! This is always a problem with extremists, they are incapable of seeing shades of gray! Incapable of seeing that there are indeed many Muslims you can work with, with which we could easily cooperate and coexist. This works on both sides of course, since quite a few extremist Muslims have labeled Bhutto an 'enemy of Islam' as well. Calling fellow Muslims ' Zionist puppets' and 'un-Islamic' seems a widespread phenomenon in the Muslim world. "So how does that work?"
Reply

~Taalibah~
12-28-2007, 04:09 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by amani
she wanted to get rid of Islam in Pakistan. she wanted secularism. how is that wonderful sister?
I agree that she has involved herself in terrible deeds. While i understand why you disapprove of such a Dua, one cannot make any judgment on what she deserves in the hereafter. Dont forget one act, just one act, can get you Jannat.
Reply

KAding
12-28-2007, 04:25 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by thinktank
just a slight diversion, your talking as if its only them who commit political assasinations, the west does it all the time albeit covertly, likewise israel does it every other day when killing members of hamas etc, i think the lot are mad!

anyway what really bugs me is the collatoral dammage this has caused, the killer killed her by gunfire why the heck did he need to takeout another 20 ppl!?
Sorry if I gave that impression, I didn't intend to. Of course political assassinations are not limited to Muslim countries, let alone to 'muhajedeen'. Heck, the Netherlands had it's own high-profile political assassination in 2002, though it is incredibly rare here.

But the tactic of using suicide bombers for that purpose is more widespread among Islamic extremists, rather than secular extremists, is it not? At least in the Muslim world. Martyrdom operations are simply less appealing for those who are probably less religiously inclined.

On the other hand, suicide bombings are very widespread among the Tamil Tigers and they are more secular and Hindu. So I suppose the context matters as well!
Reply

Grace Seeker
12-28-2007, 04:36 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by amani
if u had someone fighting to put shariah law in the US like benazir wanter secular law in pakistan wouldnt you want them dead and oppose them ?
Yes, I would oppose them.
No, I would not want them dead.

I would oppose them with voice and vote. Violence is not the answer to reconciling problems between individuals of disperate views.
Reply

thinktank
12-28-2007, 04:39 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by KAding
Sorry if I gave that impression, I didn't intend to. Of course political assassinations are not limited to Muslim countries, let alone to 'muhajedeen'. Heck, the Netherlands had it's own high-profile political assassination in 2002, though it is incredibly rare here.

But the tactic of using suicide bombers for that purpose is more widespread among Islamic extremists, rather than secular extremists, is it not? At least in the Muslim world. Martyrdom operations are simply less appealing for those who are probably less religiously inclined.

On the other hand, suicide bombings are very widespread among the Tamil Tigers and they are more secular and Hindu. So I suppose the context matters as well!
suicide bombing is a whole new ball game, very confusing topic and yet no real clear cut answer, heard both arguments, and i understaqnd both their logic but i still cant make a decsion.

in this particualr case i dont understand why if they wanted to kill her a sniper didnt do the job? i guess we will never know.
Reply

aamirsaab
12-28-2007, 04:40 PM
:sl:
Aaaaaalrighty then I think it's time to lock this thread.
Reply

Woodrow
12-28-2007, 04:41 PM
In spite of what any of us think of Ms. Bhutto or what she represented. There are some serious questions that need to be answered, and it will take many years for anybody to see the result.

1.Will this make Pakistan Islamic?


A. Yes, it has removed the supporter of secularism.

B. No, It will cause people to turn against Islam and condemn the killing of a woman.


2. Will this make Pakistan a powerful nation?


A. Yes, the people will now unite and Islamic rule will bring the country together.

B. The immediate chaos will open the window of opportunity for those who desire to divide Pakistan. This has opened the door for invasion by India, Iran and Afghanistan, with little chance of the USA interceding to stop the division.

3. Is this the best possible time for India to begin a massive assault against Pakistan?

A. Yes, the people are divided and India would be foolish to miss this opportunity, if that is their desire.

B. No, the confused populace would be too difficult to control.
Reply

chosen
12-29-2007, 07:30 PM
I have been away for a while..and I have not posted in weeks..very busy..but I have to comment about the assasination of Bhutto...the moment I heard that she was dead my mind automatically focused on musharaff..this is a man who declared a state of emergency with with hopes that it would stop the election process..he only dropped it because of all the international pressure put on him, when the world figured out his game....so now Bhutto is assasinated and the country is in turmoil..lets guess is the next state of emergency comming soon...and ofcorse this time it would be justified because this time there really is a serious problem...smells like musharaff
Reply

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