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caroline
01-02-2008, 02:59 PM
On another thread, I asked whether or not FGM (female genital mutilation) is accepted in Islam. One posters answer was that right or wrong is not a matter of our rational minds but it is what's ordered by the Quran and the Prophet.

The only reference to FGM I have been given from the Quran states that when the prophet observed women performing this procedure he told them they could just trim but not to cut into it. Which brought me to my present question, which is the purpose of this post:

Is the Prophet Muhammed (pbuh) infallible? I know that many Catholics believe in the infallibility of the Pope. Do Muslims believe the Prophet to be perfect and without fault? Or was he capable of making mistakes? Did he make mistakes? Could he?

My other question is on the hadiths... The seem to be subjective, are they?

Thank You! And respect to you all.
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adeeb
01-02-2008, 03:10 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by caroline
Is the Prophet Muhammed (pbuh) infallible? .
no, he is not. He is an ordinary man but with direct guidence from Allah.

format_quote Originally Posted by caroline
Do Muslims believe the Prophet to be perfect and without fault? Or was he capable of making mistakes? Did he make mistakes? Could he?

.
yes he could, and he had made a mistake...

but, Muhammad is different from any man in this world.... if he made mistake, Allah DIRECTLY told him that he had made a mistake... so he could change what he had done.

what he said, is from Allah, what he done, is guidence from Allah... Allah has made him the best man in this world...

so overall, he is infallible? yes, he is :okay:
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caroline
01-02-2008, 03:51 PM
I'm confused. He is NOT infallible, but he IS infallible?

He is the best man in this world... better than Moses, Abraham and Jesus?

Thank You.
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adeeb
01-02-2008, 03:56 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by caroline
I'm confused. He is NOT infallible, but he IS infallible? .
relax, step by step sis...
i suggest u to read a lot of books about islam...maybe if i got wrong u can tell me. and we can discuss here

format_quote Originally Posted by caroline
He is the best man in this world... better than Moses, Abraham and Jesus?

Thank You.
yes he is.

the last prophet, the best men better from the other prophets...

Muhammad sallallahualaihi wasallam (pbuh)
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UmmSqueakster
01-02-2008, 04:08 PM
Prophets (saws) are protected from sin, but not from error:

Talha narrates: I was walking with the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) when he passed by some people at the tops of their palm trees. He asked, “What are they doing?” They answered, “Pollinating the male into the female.” He replied, “I do not think that this will be of benefit.” When they were told about what the Prophet said, they stopped what they were doing. Later, when the trees shed down their fruits prematurely, the Prophet was told about that. He said, “If it is good for them they should do it. I was just speculating. So, pardon me. But if I tell you something about God, then take it because I would never tell untruths about God.”

Thus, the Islamic definition of infallibility does not necessarily include protection from forgetting or misjudgment in matters that are not part of conveying the message (Ibn Taymiyah, Al-Musawwadah fi Usul Al-Fiqh, Vol. 1, p. 171, Al-Madani, Cairo).

http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/S...=1123996016492




Hadith are complicated. In fact, the study of hadith is known as a science, and as anyone who's studied a science in school, be it biology, chemistry, physics or whatnot, know that one cannot completely grasp that science after a quick explanation or reading of a book.

That being said, a good introduction to the science of hadith can be found here.

Another excellent book is Rethinking Tradition in Modern Islamic Thought. Most of the book discusses muslim engagement with the tradition/hadith in the last 200 years, but the early chapters discuss the early understanding of hadith and how the tradition was formed. Just as a warning, this is a very dense academic book. I can breeze through most books at a very good clip (ie a 300 page novel in a 3 hours), but this one takes me a good 5 minutes per page at least.
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caroline
01-02-2008, 04:16 PM
LOL Janaan is a speed reader! I have tried this a few times and I am able to read fast but I never do. I have always read as though the words were being spoken. Even in my head I read at a speaking pace with all the expression, inflection, and pauses as though it were real life. But then, I'm a playwrite so I guess that makes sense.

Thank you on your notes. I now understand hadith to be similar to theology in that it is the academic or scientific study of the Quran and Islam?

That would account for the fact that there are so many disagreements in this field.

Are their many Muslims who simply read and follow the Quran according to their own understanding?
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UmmSqueakster
01-02-2008, 04:24 PM
Not quite.

Hadith are the traditions of the Prophet (saws), what he said, did, how he behaved in certain situations. Allah (swt) didn't just throw down the whole book of the Qur'an and say "here it is, memorize it, there will be a test in a week." No, He chose Muhammad (saws) as the messenger, and as an example of how to live the Qur'an, of how to be a muslim. The companions of the Prophet (saws) would observe his actions and speech, and attempt to copy him in their lives.

After the Prophet (saws) died, when the companions were faced with a situation where they wanted to know how to act islamically, they would ask one another, what would the Prophet (saws) do in this situation? One of the companions of the Prophet (saws) would remember a saying or an action of the Prophet and narrate it to those around him. This would continue on for several decades, until the narration of these traditions got to be too unwieldy as the muslim community expanded across several countries.

At this time, knowledgable men traveled around the muslim world, collecting these sayings, collecting the chain of transmition (ie, person a heard from person be who heard from person c who heard the Prophet (saws) say...). These men would study every person in the chain of transmitition, as well as study the content of the hadith, and termine how valid it was.

These hadith/traditions of the Prophet (saws) are an integral part of how muslims understand and practice Islam. For example, in the Qur'an we are commanded to make salat (ie to pray). But how are we to pray? We only know how to make salat through the hadith, the transmition of how the Prophet (saws) prayed.




There are some modern groups who are quran only-ists, but traditionally, one learns islam from the hands of scholars who themselves learned from scholars who themselves learned from scholars all the way back to the Prophet Muhammad (saws). thus, our understanding of the religion is a continuation of how muslims have understood and practiced islam throughout the centuries.


Did that make sense? Sometimes I get on a roll and tend to ramble on and on and on, lol
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caroline
01-02-2008, 04:28 PM
Yes, it made perfect sense. The hadiths are more like the gospels... followers accounts of the life of the Prophet.

Thank you!!! You have helped me understand this.
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UmmSqueakster
01-02-2008, 04:34 PM
Bingo! That's exactly how I look at the gospels (and one of the reasons I could not be a christian, even if I ever left islam, audu billahi minashaytanir rajim [I seek refuge in God from Satan, the accursed]). The Prophets (saws) and in particular Muhammad (saws) were chosen because they represent the best of humanity. WWMD? How they practiced the religion is of the utmost importance to how we practice it, but there has to be the revelation upon which to center your actions. That revelation is not there in Christianity. We know what Jesus (as) said, but what was revealed to him by God?
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Jayda
01-03-2008, 12:40 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by caroline
On another thread, I asked whether or not FGM (female genital mutilation) is accepted in Islam. One posters answer was that right or wrong is not a matter of our rational minds but it is what's ordered by the Quran and the Prophet.

The only reference to FGM I have been given from the Quran states that when the prophet observed women performing this procedure he told them they could just trim but not to cut into it. Which brought me to my present question, which is the purpose of this post:

Is the Prophet Muhammed (pbuh) infallible? I know that many Catholics believe in the infallibility of the Pope. Do Muslims believe the Prophet to be perfect and without fault? Or was he capable of making mistakes? Did he make mistakes? Could he?

My other question is on the hadiths... The seem to be subjective, are they?

Thank You! And respect to you all.
hola,

i know this is about islam but it's a pet peeve of mine... we all believe the Pope is infallible... but only on issues of doctrine and dogma when he speaks ex cathedra... it's happened seven times in 2000 years... a lot of people think that papal infallibility means the Pope could declare the cookie monster president tomorrow so we have to follow along... that's not true.


que Dios te bendiga
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ummzayd
01-04-2008, 08:05 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by caroline

The only reference to FGM I have been given from the Quran states that when the prophet observed women performing this procedure he told them they could just trim but not to cut into it. Which brought me to my present question, which is the purpose of this post:
peace Caroline, just a quick aside - it's not in quran at all about FGM, maybe it is a hadith?
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ahsan28
01-04-2008, 10:35 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by caroline
Is the Prophet Muhammed (pbuh) infallible? I know that many Catholics believe in the infallibility of the Pope.
Only the prophets (peace on them) were continuously guarded against and protected by Allah Almighty from any sin, and with the termination of Prophethood the privilege of infallibility has been taken away by Allah Almighty from all the progeny of Adam. This is the consensus view-point of mainstream Muslim scholars.
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crayon
01-04-2008, 10:46 AM
Well, about FGM, here's what i found.link
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caroline
01-04-2008, 12:26 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by ahsan28
Only the prophets (peace on them) were continuously guarded against and protected by Allah Almighty from any sin, .
Hmmm... I seem to remember somebody throwing down the commandments that God etched in stone and getting in pretty big trouble for that. Wasn't that a sin?
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UmmSqueakster
01-04-2008, 02:11 PM
When you read the Qur'an, you'll find that the stories of the Prophets (saws) are different from those you find in the bible in one main way - in the bible, these men of God seem to do horrible things quite a lot (Noah's drunken nakedness, David sending his friend to die so he could have his wife, etc). In the Qur'an and in Islam, we don't believe that the prophets and messengers of God would do things like this.

My husband was born and raised in Egypt, and didn't have any exposure to the bible prior to his moving here. Since I used to be a pretty devout christian and a religious studies major, I have a ton of bibles on the bookshelf at home. While waiting for his green card, he started to read through them. When I would get home from work, he would grab a bible off the table, flip it open and say "Did you read this???? They think ______ really did this?????!!!#?!@!" It just flabergasted him that jews and christians would think that their men of God did things like that.
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thirdwatch512
01-04-2008, 08:25 PM
Female genital mutilation is circumcision of women, correct?

I remember reading a Hadith once where Muhammad did not prohibit it, but he said do not do it too hard, or cut too much.

I think it is like the Islamic view of slavery.. Not necessarily condemned, but is permitted under certain conditions.

As for infallibility.. i do not think all Muslims see Muhammad as infallible, although many see his teachings(sunnah) as so. However, we must remember that the Hadiths were written 200 years later, and they are not perfect. Many people have doubted Hadiths over time.. Whether it be the Wahabbi's, Salafi's, or Sufi's.. All have questioned some before! So perhaps(according to Islam) Muhammad was infallible, but the Hadiths attributed to him(which were written 200 years later) are not(because the writers of the Hadiths may have added some traditions that are false here or there on accident.)
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- Qatada -
01-04-2008, 10:04 PM
^ Many ahadith were written by his (peace be upon him)'s companions. Of which include Abdullah ibn 'Amr ibn Al 'Aas, Abdullah ibn Abbaas etc.


So please lets not confuse the issue. Thankyou.
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ummzayd
01-04-2008, 11:09 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by - Qatada -
^ Many ahadith were written by his (peace be upon him)'s companions. Of which include Abdullah ibn 'Amr ibn Al 'Aas, Abdullah ibn Abbaas etc.


So please lets not confuse the issue. Thankyou.
:sl:

so they actually wrote down the hadiths and this writing is/was available for people to read? rather than just passing it on orally which I think is the case with a lot of hadiths where you get a whole chain of transmitters. (excuse my ignorance, I am seeking a cure).

:w:
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thirdwatch512
01-05-2008, 12:40 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by - Qatada -
^ Many ahadith were written by his (peace be upon him)'s companions. Of which include Abdullah ibn 'Amr ibn Al 'Aas, Abdullah ibn Abbaas etc.


So please lets not confuse the issue. Thankyou.
How am I confusing the issue? The fact is, is Sahih Bukhari, and other collections of the Hadiths were all compiled into books hundreds of years later. Many of these hadiths have very weak isnad's, and others have been doubted anyways. Would you like me to show you a Salafi site that has a 6 page list of hadiths that have been questioned regarding their authenticity?

My point still stands.. Many muslims do not see the hadiths as infallible. In fact, through time even prominent Sheikhs, Imams, etc, have disputed different hadiths on different grounds.
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Angelzz
01-05-2008, 07:38 AM
:sl:

The study of hadith is a topic of its own and cannot be summed up so lightly and flippantly without detailed study into the field.

The collectors of hadith have dedicated their entire lives to this task alone.

They have collected hundreds of thousands of hadiths and as such there is a grading system of hadiths.

You might find this thread beneficial

http://www.islamicboard.com/refutati...-learners.html

Its really quite interesting and amazing how these hadiths were collected and organised and cannot be explained easily without serious study into this.


And to get back onto the topic of this thread.


The Prophets’ task was to convey the message from Allaah even though they were human, hence the issue of infallibility may be examined from two angles:

1 – Infallibility in conveying the message

2 – Infallibility from human error



Firstly:

With regard to the first issue, the Prophets were infallible in conveying the message from Allaah. They did not conceal anything that Allaah had revealed to them, and they did not add anything from themselves. Allaah said to His Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) (interpretation of the meaning):

“O Messenger (Muhammad)! Proclaim (the Message) which has been sent down to you from your Lord. And if you do not, then you have not conveyed His Message. Allaah will protect you from mankind”
[al-Maa'idah 5:67]

“And if he (Muhammad) had forged a false saying concerning Us (Allaah),

We surely would have seized him by his right hand (or with power and might),

And then We certainly would have cut off his life artery (aorta),

And none of you could have withheld Us from (punishing) him”

[al-Haaqqah 69:44-47]

So with regard to conveying the religion of his Lord, the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) did not make any mistakes at all, whether major or minor, rather he was infallible and under the constant protection of Allaah.

Secondly
:

With regard to the Prophets as people, they may make mistakes. This may be discussed as follows

1 –They do not commit major sins

With regard to major sins, the Prophets do not commit major sins at all, and they are protected from such major sins both before their missions began or afterwards.

2 – Matters that have nothing to do with conveying the message and the revelation.

With regard to minor sins, these may be committed by them, or by some of them. Hence the majority of scholars are of the view that they are not infallible when it comes to minor sins. But if they committed such actions they were not left to persist therein, rather Allaah pointed that out to them and they hastened to repent therefrom

3 – Unintentional mistakes with regard to some worldly matters

With regard to mistakes in some worldly matters, it is permissible for them to make such mistakes although their reason is sound and their insight is strong. This happened to several of the Prophets including our Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him). This happened with regard to various spheres of life such as medicine, agriculture, etc



Here is the link for a more thorough reading of this issue

http://islamqa.com/index.php?ref=422...d%20infallible

:w:
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- Qatada -
01-05-2008, 01:41 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by ummzayd
:sl:

so they actually wrote down the hadiths and this writing is/was available for people to read? rather than just passing it on orally which I think is the case with a lot of hadiths where you get a whole chain of transmitters. (excuse my ignorance, I am seeking a cure).

:w:

:wasalamex


Sister, here's an article which might be of some benefit insha Allah:
http://www.load-islam.com/artical_de...ection=Hadeeth

Myth #1 Ahadeeth were written 200 years after the Prophet (Peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him)

This misconception is based on the hadeeth mentioned in Saheeh Muslim (Second authenthic Hadeeth collection):
It was narrated from Abu Sa’eed al-Khudri that the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: Do not write anything from me; whoever has written anything from me other than the Qur’aan, let him erase it and narrate from me, for there is nothing wrong with that. (Narrated by Muslim, al-Zuhd wa’l-Raqaa’iq, 5326)
Those who use this hadeeth and argue that no ahadeeth were written are ignorant of the historical temporary prohibition of this statement. The temporary prohibition was meant as a precautionary step to ensure the correctness of the word of Allaah as distinguished from the words of the Prophet himself, as both came from the lips of the Prophet. This is one view and several other views are mentioned in the commentary on Saheeh Muslim by Imaam Al-Nawawi (May Allaah have mercy on him)


Al-Nawawi said in his commentary on Saheeh Muslim:
Al-Qaadi said: there were many disputes among the Sahaabah and Taabi’een concerning the writing down of knowledge. Many of them regarded this as being makrooh, but most of them regarded it as permissible. This dispute is no longer an issue.

They differed as to the meaning of this hadeeth which says that it is forbidden. It was said that this pertained to one who was sure of his memory, and there was the fear that he may rely upon what he had written if he wrote it down; the ahaadeeth which say that it is permissible to write things down is to be interpreted as referring to the one whose memory is not reliable, such as the hadeeth, “Write it down for Abu Shaah”; or the hadeeth of the saheefah of ‘Alee (may Allaah be pleased with him); the hadeeth of the book of ‘Amr ibn Hazm, which contains laws on inheritance, sunnahs and diyaat (blood money); the hadeeth about writing down charity, and the minimum amounts at which zakaah becomes obligatory (nisaab), with which Abu Bakr sent Anas (may Allaah be pleased with him) to Bahrain; the hadeeth of Abu Hurayrah which says that Ibn ‘Amr ibn al-‘Aas used to ; write things down but he (Abu Hurayrah) did not write things down, and other ahaadeeth. And it was said that the hadeeth forbidding writing down ahaadeeth was abrogated by these ahaadeeth.

The prohibition was in effect when there was the fear that (the words of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) might be mixed with the Qur’aan. When that danger was no longer present, permission was given to write down (ahaadeeth). And it was said that the prohibition mentioned in the hadeeth referred to writing ahaadeeth on the same page as Qur’aan, lest they become mixed and thus the reader would be confused when looking at this page. And Allaah knows best.

The hadeeth of Abu Shaah was narrated by al-Bukhaari from Abu Hurayrah (may Allaah be pleased with him), who said:
‘When Allaah granted His Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) victory over Makkah, he stood before the people and praised and glorified Allaah, then he said: “Allaah protected Makkah from the elephant and has given authority to His Messenger and the believers over it, so fighting was forbidden for anyone before me, and was made permissible for me for part of a day, and it will not be permissible for anyone after me. Its game should not be chased, its thorny bushes should not be uprooted, and picking up its fallen things is not allowed except for one who makes public announcement for it, and he whose relative is murdered has the option either to accept a compensation for it or to retaliate.” Al-‘Abbas said, “Except Al-Idhkhir (a kind of plant), for we use it in our graves and houses.” The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said, “Except Al-Idhkhir.” Abu Shaah, a Yemeni, stood up and said, “O Messenger of Allaah! Get it written for me.” The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said, “Write it for Abu Shaah.” (al-Luqatah, 2254)

Ibn Hajar said: What may be understood from the story of Abu Shaah (“Write it for Abu Shaah”) is that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) gave permission for hadeeth to be written down from him.
This contradicts the hadeeth of Abu Sa’eed al-Khudri, which says that the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said, ‘Do not write down anything from me except the Qur’aan.’ (Narrated by Muslim).

The two may be reconciled by noting that the prohibition applied only to the time when the Qur’aan was being revealed, lest it be confused with something else, and that permission was given at other times; or that the prohibition applied only to writing down things other than Qur’aan with the Qur’aan on one thing, and that permission was given to write them separately; of that the prohibition came first and the permission abrogated that, when there was no longer any fear of confusion. This is most likely to be the case.
It was said that the prohibition applied only to those whom it was feared would depend on the writing and not memorize things, and that permission was given for those from whom such a thing was not feared.

The scholars said: a group of the Sahaabah and Taabi’een regarded it as makrooh to write down the hadeeth and they regarded it as mustahabb to learn it from them by heart, as they had learned it. But when people were no longer able to strive so hard (in memorizing) and the scholars feared that knowledge might be lost, they compiled it in books.”
There are countless instructions from the Prophet instructing his companions to write down some ahadeeth.
One of the Ansaar (The Helpers) asked the Prophet if there was another way to preserve ahadeeth as he sometimes forgets them. The Prophet replied:
Seek help from your right hand, and pointed out to a writing. (Tirmidhi)
Raafi ibn Khadij (May Allaah be pleased with him) said:
I said to the Prophet that we hear from you many things, should we write them down?” He replied: You may write. There is no harm. (Tadreeb ar Raawi)
Anas (may Allaah be pleased with him) narrates that the Prophet said:
Preserve knowledge by writing. (At-Tabari Jaami ul Bayaan)
Abu Raafi (may Allaah be pleased with him) sought permission from the Prophet to write ahadeeth and the Prophet granted him that permission (Tirmidhi)
Salma (student of Ibn Abbaas) says:
I saw some small wooden boards with Abdullaah Ibn Abbaas. He was writing on them some reports of the acts of the Prophet which he acquired from Abu Raafi’. (Tabaqaat Ibn Sa’d)
Abdullaah ibn Amr ibn al-Aas (May Allaah be pleased with him) reports that the Prophet said to him:
Preserve Knowledge
Abdullaah then asked,
how should it be preserved?
The Prophet replied,
by writing it.
(Mustadrik Haakim; Jaami ul Bayaan)
In another report, he says,
I came to the Prophet and told him, I want to narrate your ahadeeth. So, I want to take assistance of my handwriting besides my heart. Do you deem it fit for me?’
The Prophet replied,
If it is my hadeeth you may seek help from your hand besides your heart. (Daarimi)
He also says:
I used to write whatever I heard from the Prophet and wanted to learn it by heart. Some people of the Quraysh dissuaded me and said,
Do you write everything you hear from the Prophet, while he is a human being and sometimes he may be in anger as any other human beings may be? (Abu Dawood)
After Abdullaah ibn Amr conveyed their opinion to the Prophet, the Prophet replied by pointing to his lips and said:
I swear by the One in whose hands is the soul of Muhammad: nothing comes out from these two (lips) except truth(haqq). So, do write. (Abu Dawood; Tabaqaat ibn Sa’d; Mustadrik ul Haakim)



Heres a list of collections of narrations written by the companions themselves, and their students:

These narrations attest that ahadeeth were written during the era of the Prophet.

I will list here the prominent compilations written in the first and second century, some written by the sahabas (the Prophet’s companions), their students (taabi’een), and the students of the taabi’een (tabaa'at-taabi'een).

Some of the compilations during the era of the Prophet:

The Scripts of Abu Hurairah

Hasan ibn Amr reports that once:
Abu Hurairah took him to his home and showed him “many books” containing the ahadeeth of the Prophet. (Jaami’ Bayaan-ul-‘Ilm; Fath-ul-Baari)
The Script of Abdullaahi ibn Amr

Mujahid, his student, said
I went to Abdullaah ibn Amr and took in hand a script placed beneath his cushion. He stopped me. I said, You never save anything from me. He replied:
This is the Saadiqah (the Script of Truth). It is what I heard from the Prophet. No other narrator intervenes between him and myself. If this script, the Book of Allaah, and wahaz (his agricultural land) are secured for me, I would never care about the rest of the world. (Jaami’ Bayaan-ul-‘Ilm)
The Script of Anas

Sa’eed ibn Hilal, one of his students, says:
When we insisted upon Anas (may Allaah be pleased with him) he would bring to us some notebooks and say, These are what I have heard and written from the Prophet, after which I have presented them to the Prophet for confirmation. (Mustadrik Haakim)
The Script of Alee

Alee said:
I have not written anything from the Prophet except the Qur’aan and what is contained in this script. (Saheeh Bukhaaree- Book of Jihaad)
Ibn Sa'd reports that Alee stood in the mosque and delivered a lecture then he asked the people:
Who will purchase ‘knowledge’ for one dirham only?
meaning, who wants to learn ahadeeth should buy writing paper for one dirham and come to him for dictation.

It is reported that Haarith al-A’war bought some paper and came to him:
So, Alee wrote for him a lot of knowledge. (Tabaqaat Ibn Sa’d)
Scripts of Jaabir

Qataadah, one of Jaabir’s students, says,
I remember the script of Jaabir more than I remember Surah al-Baqarah (Qur’aan). (Tahdheeb at-Tahdheeb)
Scripts of Ibn Abbaas

Musa ibn Uqbah says:
Kuraib left with us a camel load of Ibn Abbaas’s books. When Alee ibn Abdullaah ibn Abbaas would need any book from them, he wrote to Kuraib, ‘Send to me such and such books.’ He would then transcribe the book and send to him one of the two copies. (Tabaqaat Ibn Sa’d)
The pupils of Ibn Abbaas would copy these scripts and read them over to him to confirm the correctness of the copies. (Tirmidhi)

Sometimes Ibn Abbaas would narrate the ahadeeth to his pupils while they would record them. (Daarimi)

The compilations of the First Century:

1. Book of Khalid ibn Ma’dan (d. 104)
2. Books of Abu Qilabah (d. 104). He bequeathed his books to his pupil, Ayyub Saktiyan (68-131 A.H.), who paid more than ten dirhams as a fare for them being loaded on a camel.
3. The script of Hammam ibn Munabbih,
4. Books of Hasan al-Basri (21-110 A.H.)
5. Books of Muhammad al-Baqir (56-114 A.H.)
6. Books of Makhul from Syria
7. Book of Hakam ibn ‘Utaibah
8. Book of Bukair ibn Abdullaah ibn al-Ashajj (d. 117)
9. Book of Qais ibn Sa’d (d. 117). This book later belonged to Hammad ibn Salamah.
10. Book of Sulaiman al-Yashkuri
11. Al-Abwaab of Sha’bi,
12. Books of Ibn Shihaab az-Zuhri
13. Book of Abul-Aliyah
14. Book of Sa’id ibn Jubair (d. 95)
15. Books of Umar ibn ‘Abdul Aziz (61-101 A.H.)
16. Books of Mujahid ibn Jabr (d. 103)
17. Book of Raja ibn Hywah (d. 112)
18. Book of Abu Bakr ibn Muhammad ibn Amr ibn Haq
19. Book of Bashir ibn Nahik.
Reply

sur
01-05-2008, 04:55 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by caroline
On another thread, I asked whether or not FGM (female genital mutilation) is accepted in Islam. One posters answer was that right or wrong is not a matter of our rational minds but it is what's ordered by the Quran and the Prophet.

The only reference to FGM I have been given from the Quran states that when the prophet observed women performing this procedure he told them they could just trim but not to cut into it. Which brought me to my present question, which is the purpose of this post:
This is NOT in Quran. This is in a NON-authentic Hadees that she used to do it before Islam & then she converted & asked Prophet that she'll continue to do unless Prophet forbade her. So Prophet just PERMITTED (not recommended) her but told her not to cut too deep.

Again this hadees is not authentic.
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- Qatada -
01-05-2008, 05:05 PM
Caroline, in regard to the circumcision - this is a earlier post of brother Ansar:


:sl:
There is a whole discussion on this here.

An excerpt:
format_quote Originally Posted by Ansar Al-'Adl
With regard to the issue at hand, it's been agreed that female gential mutilation, or what Br. Kadafi pointed out to be Pharaonic circumcision, is unlawful and has no basis in Islam. Indeed, this is a terrible practice. The difference of opinion only exists with regard to a mild form of female circumcision, which many scholars believe to be voluntary (sunnah).

Scholars have either said it is preferable to do it, or they have said it is preferable to avoid it. What Islam does teach us is that causing harm and suffering to others is forbidden.The most balanced and agreed upon view with regard to female circumcision is as mentioned by the IslamToday Fatwa committee:
Since the hadîth is weak to begin with, and since most people really do not know how to practice circumcision correctly, female circumcision should be avoided. (See here (Female Circumcision) for complete Fatwa.)
See also:
http://www.islamtoday.com/showme2.cf...sub_cat_id=822
:w:
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muslim1
01-28-2008, 05:04 AM
Caroline the one who put this thread didnt show up for about two weeks now! She had questions that werent wisely answered! I think she has got a bad picture some way or another! Whose responsibility is this?
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snakelegs
01-28-2008, 08:25 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by muslim1
Caroline the one who put this thread didnt show up for about two weeks now! She had questions that werent wisely answered! I think she has got a bad picture some way or another! Whose responsibility is this?
it is her responsibility! everyone is responsible for themselves and their choices.
last i knew, she was annoyed at a post by a muslim member in "world affairs" and she said that because of that, she had decided to slow down in her journey to become a muslim...or something to that affect.
go figger. :hmm:
it didn't have anything to do with this thread as far as i know.
but of course, she could still be lurking....
Reply

جوري
02-01-2008, 08:54 PM
إِنَّكَ لَا تَهْدِي مَنْ أَحْبَبْتَ وَلَكِنَّ اللَّهَ يَهْدِي مَن يَشَاء وَهُوَ أَعْلَمُ بِالْمُهْتَدِينَ {56}
[Pickthal 28:56] Lo! thou guidest not whom thou lovest, but Allah guideth whom He will. And He is Best Aware of those who walk aright.
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chacha_jalebi
02-01-2008, 09:05 PM
The Prophet (sal Allah hu aleyhi wasalam) he didnt commit any sins!!

infallible = unable to make mistakes

he never made a mistake in religious matters, but all Prophet (alayhi salam) were able to make mistakes in other stuff

many scholars like ibn taymiyyah, ibn baz erm david beckham:p have said that in regarding in giving the message of islaam, the Prophet (sal allah hu aleyhi wasalam) were infallible, but in world matters they werent!

like the what happen with Hadhrat Abdullah ibn Maktum (ra)

there a hadiths aswell in muslim . . . .

It was reported that Raafi’ ibn Khudayj said: The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) came to Madeenah, and they were pollinating the date-palms. He said, “What are you doing?” They said, “We always used to pollinate them.” He said, “Perhaps if you do not do that, it will be better.” So they did not do it, and the harvest was lacking. They mentioned that to him, and he said, “I am only a human being like you. If I tell you to do something with regard to religion, then follow it, but if I tell you to do something based on my own opinion, I am only a human being.”
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