'UK Islamists creating no-go areas'

[☆•♥°ąყ℮Տիმ°♥•☆]

Islamic extremism in Britain is creating communities which are "no-go areas" for non-Muslims, a senior Church of England bishop warns.

Bishop of Rochester The Rt Rev Dr Michael Nazir-Ali says non-Muslims face a hostile reception in places dominated by the ideology of Islamic radicals.

He criticises the doctrine of multiculturalism for creating separate communities which fail to integrate in to the mainstream of society.

In a wide-ranging attack, Bishop Nazir-Ali compares intimidation by Muslim radicals to that by far-Right extremists

Writing for The Sunday Telegraph, he condemns the failure to give privilege to the established church which he says has led to a "multi-faith mish-mash".

He says the integration agenda pursued by the government "lacks...a moral and spiritual vision."

Dr Nazir-Ali questions whether elements of Sharia law are applicable in Britain and confronts directly the use of loudspeakers on mosques to spread the call to prayer.

He writes: "...there has been a worldwide resurgence of the ideology of Islamic extremism. One of the results of this has been to further alienate the young from the nation in which they were growing up and also to turn already separate communities into "no-go" areas where adherence to this ideology has become a mark of acceptability."

Shadow home secretary Tory David Davis said the Government's actions risked creating a "voluntary apartheid".

He said: "Bishop Nazir-Ali has drawn attention to a deeply serious problem. The Government's confused and counter-productive approach risks creating a number of closed societies instead of one open, cohesive one - a voluntary apartheid. It generates the risk of encouraging radicalisation and creating home-grown terrorism."



Source : http://news.aol.co.uk/uk-islamists-c...05225909990003

[ricardo_sousa]

the far-right is on the rise in Europe and this notices only serve to "fuel" that rise. It is like before the rise of Nazism in Germany, but in that time the "public enemy" was Zionism.

[Fishman]

:sl:
Who can a Christian who probably supports the use of church bells complain about the Adhan?

And this 'no-go areas' stuff is a load of twaddle. In all areas of Britain at least half the residents are white and Christian or atheist. And that is only in extreme cases. Ususally the proportion of native British is a lot greater than that. Areas with a lot of Muslims in Britian are multi-ethinic, not Muslim-majority. Far-right fascists speak out their butts. They aught to be kept out the country, not immigrants. Immigrants have brought diversity and culture to Britian. All the fascists brought was air raids...
:w:

[☆•♥°ąყ℮Տիმ°♥•☆]

Far-right fascists speak out their butts

i could say the same for the majority of the comments made on the news page i got this... the ignorance of those simply brand ALL muslims as extremist.. in the past i used to reply to the comments but now.. i take the view that there is no point in argueing with people who take such ignorant views. - you have to click the view comments box to se it Source : http://news.aol.co.uk/uk-islamists-c...05225909990003
i would like to know from Atheist/Christians/agnostics living in england how they feel about this article and also the comments made by the people on the news page regarding this article.

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[Amadeus85]

Brittons must pay the price of the multiculturalism ideology.

[Fishman]

Brittons must pay the price of the multiculturalism ideology.

:sl:
And reap the much greater benefits to gain an overall profit!
:w:

[Amadeus85]

:sl:
And reap the much greater benefits to gain an overall profit!
:w:

It depends how you look at it.We both know that we have very different opinions about this multiculti ideology.I just think that it must be shameful for the Britons not to be able to go in some areas in their own country.

[Jayda]

the bishop is right that the established Church must be given precedence. the Holy Father is right that the established Church must come back into full communion with Rome if it is ever to rightfully call itself a Church again.

i hate britain... there are these people, they are like the british equivalent of trailer trash... i think they called themselves chaves or chaffs or something to that effect... and they basically exist to harass girls. everywhere i go and i run across these people they are trying to offer me drugs or they are saying perverted things.

i don't know about areas where christians may not go... i would not challenge a bishop... but the only thing i experienced even remotely in that vein was when a pakistani gang approached me and said some intimidating things. i know most pakistanis in britain are muslims... but i don't think it was religiously or ethnically motivated... they were just looking for somebody to harass.

such are young boys' hobbies when they are not in school...

i vaguely recall some dreadful man with a hook, who i think was a british imam... he used to say some outrageous things about britain and about christianity.

[Uthman]

:sl:

I read a similar article on the BBC News website.

Reading between the lines, it seems to me that he is worried about the threat to the country's Christian identity.

Something for this thread.

:w:

[Fishman]

It depends how you look at it.We both know that we have very different opinions about this multiculti ideology.I just think that it must be shameful for the Britons not to be able to go in some areas in their own country.

:sl:
Yes. It would be shameful for Britons to not be able to go into different areas of their country. But that doesn't actually happen. There are only one or two towns with a non-white majority, let alone a Muslim majority. Some streets are heavily Muslim, but these are rare, rather like Chinatowns. There are certainly no areas like that in my city, they are only found in London, a huge capital city with many ethinc enclaves for many different minorities, and in other big conurbations such as Birmingham.

Nazir Ali's father is an apostate from Islam, so I would expect Nazir Ali to be excessively critical. All 'ex' people are.
:w:

[Jayda]

:sl:

I read a similar article on the BBC News website.

Reading between the lines, it seems to me that he is worried about the threat to the country's Christian identity.

Something for this thread.

:w:

si,

i don't think he concealed that... i would hope that he is concerned about the country's Christian identity... it's the responsibility of a bishop to look out for the flock. 'multiculturalism' in the sense of other religions isn't (as far as i'm aware) a Christian moral... it's a secular one. i would expect Christian leaders to be concerned and to want to do something about it.

in an ethical manner... it seems like people are permanently incapable of staying away from extremes... it is either a religious free for all or you are burned as a heretic... neither of which are Christian.

que Dios te bendiga

[Uthman]

Here is the BBC article:

Bishop warns of 'Islamic areas'

A Church of England bishop has said Islamic extremism has turned some communities into no-go areas for people of a different faith or race.

The Bishop of Rochester, the Right Reverend Dr Michael Nazir-Ali, said non-Muslims may find it difficult to live or work in some places.

He said there was "hostility" in those areas and described the government's multicultural policies as divisive.

Muslims and some politicians have accused the bishop of scaremongering. But other politicians agreed with the bishop - saying he had highlighted a real problem.

'Christian cause'

Writing in the Sunday Telegraph, Dr Nazir-Ali said there had been a worldwide resurgence of Islamic extremism, leading to young people growing up alienated from the country they live in.

Not only locally, but at the national level also the establishment of the Church of England is being eroded

Dr Michael Nazir-Ali
Bishop of Rochester

Profile: Michael Nazir-Ali

It had also turned "already separate communities into 'no-go' areas".

He said there had been attempts to "impose an 'Islamic' character on certain areas", for example, by amplifying the call to prayer from mosques.

The Muslim Council of Britain said the mosque call was no different from church bells ringing.

Naved Siddiqi, of the Islamic Society of Britain, said: "It seems like Dr Nazir-Ali is really looking for someone else to blame for the declining church attendances in Britain, and aims fire at another faith group."

He added: "As for these 'no-go' areas, Dr Nazir-Ali hasn't named one that we can assess, and nor can I.

"Yes, there will be many spots of social deprivation but these cut across ethnicity and faith, so religion doesn't come into it."

If there is no evidence he can put forward then it boils down to simple scaremongering

Ibrahim Mogra
Muslim Council of Britain

Dr Nazir-Ali warned of a multi-faith "mish mash" as the government promotes its integration policy. He said it was "an agenda which still lacks the underpinning of a moral and spiritual vision".

He said the role of chaplains in such places as hospitals, prisons and educational establishments was in jeopardy "either because of financial cuts or because the authorities want 'multi-faith' provision, without regard to the distinctively Christian character of the nation's laws, values, customs and culture".

"Not only locally, but at the national level also the establishment of the Church of England is being eroded," Dr Nazir-Ali said.

He added: "If it had not been for the black majority churches and the recent arrival of people from central and eastern Europe, the Christian cause in many of our cities would have looked a lost one."

'Gross caricature'

The new leader of the Liberal Democrats, Nick Clegg, was highly critical of the bishop's claims, describing them as "a gross caricature of reality".

He told Sky News: "I strongly disagree with him. I don't think he has produced any evidence that there are really no-go areas - that is an extraordinarily inflammatory way of putting it."

He added: "Clearly there is a legitimate debate to be had there, because of the rise of extremism, particularly for young men in these communities."

But Conservative home affairs spokesman David Davis said the bishop had rightly drawn attention to a "deeply serious problem".

He said: "The government's confused and counter-productive approach risks creating a number of closed societies instead of one open cohesive one."

We need to keep this issue in its proper context

Communities and Local Government spokesman

He said Labour's support for multiculturalism risked creating a situation of "voluntary apartheid".

A Communities and Local Government spokesperson said: "We need to keep this issue in its proper context.

"The overwhelming majority of Muslims are peaceful, make a huge contribution to British life and find the views of a small minority of violent extremists completely abhorrent. Britain also has a proud tradition of different communities living together side by side.

"But we are not complacent - the government has completely rebalanced its community cohesion strategy putting far greater emphasis on promoting integration and shared British values (as the Bishop acknowledges in his article)."

Scaremongering

The Muslim youth organisation The Ramadhan Foundation said it was disturbed at the bishop's comments and urged him to step down, saying it was against the tolerant teachings of the Archbishop of Canterbury, Dr Rowan Williams.

Ibrahim Mogra, of the Muslim Council of Britain's inter-faith relations committee, described the bishop's comments as "alarming".
He said: "If there is no evidence he can put forward then it boils down to simple scaremongering.

"It is very worrying if parts of our country become no-go areas for anybody, and it is not acceptable.

"To suggest that a handful of people are beginning to create such areas where nobody else can go unless they are Muslim needs evidence to back such claims."

Source

[Jayda]

:sl:
Yes. It would be shameful for Britons to not be able to go into different areas of their country. But that doesn't actually happen. There are only one or two towns with a non-white majority, let alone a Muslim majority. Some streets are heavily Muslim, but these are rare, rather like Chinatowns. There are certainly no areas like that in my city, they are only found in London, a huge capital city with many ethinc enclaves for many different minorities, and in other big conurbations such as Birmingham.

Nazir Ali's father is an apostate from Islam, so I would expect Nazir Ali to be excessively critical. All 'ex' people are.
:w:

hola Fishman,

out of curiosity why did you draw the line between whites (ethnicity) and muslims (religion)?

que Dios te bendiga

[Jayda]

lol... a christian bishop says something about muslims and the muslims and liberals respond rejecting it entirely and demand that it is all slander, while the conservatives and christians respond embracing it wholly and demanding it is just the tip of the iceberg.

politics as usual...

[Uthman]

Greetings Jayda,

i don't think he concealed that...

Good point. You're right, I don't suppose he did conceal it.

I think I agree with the rest of your post as well. If this country had a Muslim majority, I think I would want that to be preserved.

It's just some of the things that the Bishop said that I disagree with.

Regards.

[Fishman]

i hate britain... there are these people, they are like the british equivalent of trailer trash... i think they called themselves chaves or chaffs or something to that effect... and they basically exist to harass girls. everywhere i go and i run across these people they are trying to offer me drugs or they are saying perverted things.

:sl:
Those are called 'chavs'. They are inspired by American hip-hop and gansta culture, and think of themselves as 'G's and the like. They are basically stupid kids with nothing better to do than to be generally antisocial. It is not true that they exist to harass girls, athough they do think it is fun. Most true chavs are actually female. They hang around in crowds around a male chav and like nothing better than swearing, gossiping, somking and listening to rap music. Male chavs are rarer, but they are more dangerous as they are very stupid and agressive.
:w:

[Fishman]

hola Fishman,

out of curiosity why did you draw the line between whites (ethnicity) and muslims (religion)?

que Dios te bendiga

:sl:
There are white Muslims, (I am one) but they are demographically insignificant. There are only a few thousand. In this context, when I said Muslims I meant born Muslims.
:w:

[Jayda]

Greetings Jayda,



Good point. You're right, I don't suppose he did conceal it.

I think I agree with the rest of your post as well. If this country had a Muslim majority, I think I would want that to be preserved.

It's just some of the things that the Bishop said that I disagree with.

Regards.

si, i would imagine so... you are a muslim, not a Christian nobody says you have to agree with him! i just don't like how all of a sudden everybody is judging things based off of secular values... like we have all decided they are the common table. multiculturalism, tolerance et.c are such subjective terms and are often used to make 2000 years of Christian ethics seem like something only believed by 'marginal' 'extremists' ... it's an effort to line item veto aspects of the religion.

i see the same with respect to islam... if you think about the words 'fundamentalist' and 'extremist' they are essentially saying that on a fundamental level, or if you take islam to the extreme than you need to be in front of a camera with an AK47... that doesn't seem very fair does it?

obviously i'm not really concerned about islam... my concern is christianity, but i see that muslims experience the same bad publicity as a result of secular virtues that Christians do and in the interests of the truth i wish you all the best in resisting it :)

[Jayda]

:sl:
Those are called 'chavs'. They are inspired by American hip-hop and gansta culture, and think of themselves as 'G's and the like. They are basically stupid kids with nothing better to do than to be generally antisocial. It is not true that they exist to harass girls, athough they do think it is fun. Most true chavs are actually female. They hang around in crowds around a male chav and like nothing better than swearing, gossiping, somking and listening to rap music. Male chavs are rarer, but they are more dangerous as they are very stupid and agressive.
:w:

si that is who i am talking about... these people are thoroughly ridiculous. they try to corner you and talk to you, and they always seem to be drinking or smoking (which are disgusting vices).

[Amadeus85]

Personally I am very critical about multiculturalism. This ideology (just like feminism or pacifism) was created by european marxists to destroy the christian soul of this continent. And sadly I must admit that their agenda is winning. Of course now we dont have choice, as europeans decided to walk the path of self destruction so we must embrace immigrants to work here.

[ricardo_sousa]

The question is that the Christian soul of Europe created countries like the UK. Now, this soul maybe is in dangerous of "several" souls, like Islam and when you see the Islamic countries without oil, the result is not pretty. In fact, that´s why their are many Muslims in the UK: they left their failed Islamic countries. It is understandable that several persons start question the future of the country.

I am an atheist, but I recognize that it was the Christian-Judaic doctrine that created the powerful states of the West.

[جوري]

lol.. here is another drop out who should have stayed in class when they were teaching world history so he wouldn't be writing so many asinine comments on a public forum to showcase his ignorance and with such bravado..
pls start here.. yeah prior to the 'oil craze'

http://www.1001inventions.com/index....tSectionID=240

[Jayda]

only dead cultures rest on their laurels

[جوري]

we had invented optics when the rest of you were dying of the plague, and it was Abu Abd Allah Muhammad al-Idrisi that gave a globe to Roger the II who like the rest of the judeo/christian europe thought the earth was flat..
we were creating pieces of architecture and concepts in math.
it was Harun Ar-rachid (Aaron the upright) that gave Charlemagne a water clock that marked the hours by dropping bronze balls into a bowl, as mechanical knights one for each hour emerged from little doors which shut behind them. The presents were unprecedented in Western Europe and may have influenced Carolingian art.

Maybe if you had stayed in school a little you'd know that your basic trigonometry and algebra, as well as chemistry came to you courtesy of the Muslims world..

shouldn't there be minimum standards of intellect before joining a forum? or all that one needs is a keyboard?


cheers

[جوري]

only dead cultures rest on their laurels

If the world has seen the mountains it is because they've stood on the shoulders of giants. Some invent, others yield to imperialism, steal the wealth of nations and consider that progress!
If you have something of substance to impart then do so, if not, the exist is that way!


cheers

[seeker_of_ilm]

It's all well and good for Mr Nazir-Ali to make such a claim, yet I have not seen him provide us with any statistics, or even mention examples of such "no-go areas".

[Jayda]

we had invented optics when the rest of you were dying of the plague, and it was Abu Abd Allah Muhammad al-Idrisi that gave a globe to Roger the II who like the rest of the judeo/christian europe thought the earth was flat..
we were creating pieces of architecture and concepts in math.
it was Harun Ar-rachid (Aaron the upright) that gave Charlemagne a water clock that marked the hours by dropping bronze balls into a bowl, as mechanical knights one for each hour emerged from little doors which shut behind them. The presents were unprecedented in Western Europe and may have influenced Carolingian art.

Maybe if you had stayed in school a little you'd know that your basic trigonometry and algebra, as well as chemistry came to you courtesy of the Muslims world..

shouldn't there be minimum standards of intellect before joining a forum? or all that one needs is a keyboard?


cheers

maybe on that intelligence test you could put a few questions down about the byzantine empire seeing as it was european, half of the Christian world and much more advanced than its muslim neighbors all through the middle ages. and yes, they did believe the world was round.

but of course, i'm sure you are right... this must just be zionist propaganda. it's as simple as enlightened muslims bringing education to the barbarian christian turnip farmers.

[islamiii]

Re: 'UK Islamists creating no-go areas' -
can u tell me the name those area ?

[islamiii]

Islamists extremist etc i dont know why people scared with them

[Whatsthepoint]

:sl:
And reap the much greater benefits to gain an overall profit!
:w:

Cheap workforce and spicy food in the past, gangsta youths and spicy food in the present...and, of course, cultural benefit.

Just kidding, I am a liberal...

Although one should ask themselves why is it that there's always trouble with Pakistanis, Bangladeshis...and very little trouble with the chinese, japanese...?

Anyway, continental western Europe solved the immigrant issue somehow better than Britain.

[Jayda]

hola islamii,

i think the concern is that these are people who would cause physical harm or would intimidate others.

que Dios te bendiga

[Jayda]

Cheap workforce and spicy food in the past, gangsta youths and spicy food in the present...and, of course, cultural benefit.

Just kidding, I am a liberal...

Although one should ask themselves why is it that there's always trouble with Pakistanis, Bangladeshis...and very little trouble with the chinese, japanese...?

Anyway, continental western Europe solved the immigrant issue somehow better than Britain.

...well that's rather interesting...

[islamiii]

hola islamii,

i think the concern is that these are people who would cause physical harm or would intimidate others.


how many people were killed by muslim???
but what about USA???? they are openly killing innocent in iraq . in afghanistan ???
where was that concern
were the muslim people are not human being ?????

[caroline]

Assuming the neighborhood truly is a no go zone for non-Muslims and the call to prayer is amplified, a good test of the fairness of this would be to ask if the reverse situation would be accepted in an Islamic state. Say, for instance, a Christian community developed in Terhan where non Christians were restricted or even just made to feel NOT welcome. Say they amplified a Christian hymn from the church steeple about 5 times a day.

Would this be accepted?

Sometimes it helps me to just put the shoe on the other foot and if it is unacceptable in that situation then it's time to look at two possibilities: One, is it okay for ME to be doing this if I would NOT allow others to do it to me? Two, is it time for me to change my attitudes and allow others the same freedoms I expect for myself?

[جوري]

maybe on that intelligence test you could put a few questions down about the byzantine empire seeing as it was european, half of the Christian world and much more advanced than its muslim neighbors all through the middle ages. and yes, they did believe the world was round.

I understand public schools to implement basic vocational training to foster self-esteem, thus your current cognitive content and mindless drivel is excusable!

but of course, i'm sure you are right... this must just be zionist propaganda. it's as simple as enlightened muslims bringing education to the barbarian christian turnip farmers.

You don't need zionist propaganda, you just need a proper book!

cheers

[Whatsthepoint]

we had invented optics when the rest of you were dying of the plague, and it was Abu Abd Allah Muhammad al-Idrisi that gave a globe to Roger the II who like the rest of the judeo/christian europe thought the earth was flat..
we were creating pieces of architecture and concepts in math.
it was Harun Ar-rachid (Aaron the upright) that gave Charlemagne a water clock that marked the hours by dropping bronze balls into a bowl, as mechanical knights one for each hour emerged from little doors which shut behind them. The presents were unprecedented in Western Europe and may have influenced Carolingian art.

Maybe if you had stayed in school a little you'd know that your basic trigonometry and algebra, as well as chemistry came to you courtesy of the Muslims world..

shouldn't there be minimum standards of intellect before joining a forum? or all that one needs is a keyboard?


cheers

It's sad that most people are not aware of the great achievements of the muslim dominated civilization. A lotof people still think muslims as savage barbaric "Mohammedans" who have brought nothing but violence and terrorism.
the truth is completely different. The islamic society was during its golden age the most propserous society till that day, with medical system, sewages, water pipes. Science was very well developed, from mathematics to agriculture.
why? Well, IMHO mostly because muslims have concquered and gathered the entire knowledge of many civilizations (Greece, Rome(Byznatine), North Africa,India, China...) and because religion didn't oppose science as it did in Europe. And of course, because there were smart people living in the muslim empire who have made great progress from the gathered knowledge.
But the golen era of the muslim world is long over and resting on past achievements, as Yayda said, is not the ebst thing to do. In the last couple of centuries European science made progress IMHO far greater than that of the muslim world. Of course, it couldn' have been made without the muslim world, some of it was even stolen and sold as original.

[Whatsthepoint]

Dr Nazir-Ali questions whether elements of Sharia law are applicable in Britain and confronts directly the use of loudspeakers on mosques to spread the call to prayer.

This is simply unnacceptable.

[جوري]

It's sad that most people are not aware of the great achievements of the muslim dominated civilization. A lotof people still think muslims as savage barbaric "Mohammedans" who have brought nothing but violence and terrorism.
the truth is completely different. The islamic society was during its golden age the most propserous society till that day, with medical system, sewages, water pipes. Science was very well developed, from mathematics to agriculture.
why? Well, IMHO mostly because muslims have concquered and gathered the entire knowledge of many civilizations (Greece, Rome(Byznatine), North Africa,India, China...) and because religion didn't oppose science as it did in Europe. And of course, because there were smart people living in the muslim empire who have made great progress from the gathered knowledge.
But the golen era of the muslim world is long over and resting on past achievements, as Yayda said, is not the ebst thing to do. In the last couple of centuries European science made progress IMHO far greater than that of the muslim world. Of course, it couldn' have been made without the muslim world, some of it was even stolen and sold as original.

I'll agree with some portions of your opinion above--
however, any Muslim who is scholarly now a days will not be recognized because of the socio-economic and the geo-political situation in the world. I know many bright young muslims whose achievements get swallowed up in the whole. Many studies prove that young muslims are professional and doing quite well for themselves, you may have a look here

Middle Eastern immigrants were highly educated, with 49 percent holding at least a bachelor's degree, compared to 28 percent of natives.

Median earnings for Middle Eastern men were $39,000 a year compared to $38,000 for native workers.

they tend to be better-educated than native U.S. residents — about half hold bachelor's degrees, compared to 28 percent of natives. They also perform as well economically as natives — 30- and 40-year-old Middle Eastern males with a college education have the same median income as natives, and Middle East immigrants are more likely be self-employed.




Middle Eastern Immigrants in U.S. Educated, Prosperous, Study Says
Gannett News Service, August 15, 2002

(Also ran in Arizona Republic - 8/15)

WASHINGTON — Middle Eastern immigrants in the United States are well educated, earn more money than most Americans and are predominantly Muslim, according to a report released Wednesday.

They also are among the nation's fastest-growing immigrant groups, according to the report issued by the Center for Immigration Studies in Washington, a think tank that supports reducing the number of immigrants to the United States.

The report says the number of Middle Eastern immigrants increased from fewer than 200,000 in 1970 to almost 1.5 million in 2000. The overall number of foreign-born residents in the United States tripled to 31 million over the same period.

The report offers a rare portrait of an immigrant group that has received intense scrutiny and negative publicity since the Sept. 11 attacks.
Project MAPS, a survey of "Muslims in the American Public Square" conducted in 2001-2002 by researchers at Georgetown University, found that 86 percent of all Muslim professionals were concentrated in three careers: engineering, computer science, and medicine. Law, law enforcement, and politics accounted for a minuscule 0.6 percent. American Muslims, some demographers say, have also been voting well below their numbers in the population -- registering to vote at only half the national rate, according to the 2001 American Religious Identification Survey [PDF], a project of the Graduate Center of the City University of New York. "If they ever did play to their weight" in the electoral arena and in Washington, Muslims "would be a much more considerable force in public policy-making," says Steve Clemons, a Democrat who directs the American Strategy Program at the New America Foundation in Washington.

http://www.wilsoncenter.org/topics/p...ab_America.pdf
http://www.cis.org/articles/2002/mideastcoverage.html

unfortunately the empire that once fostered them, has dissolved, so they can only take their bright minds else where..
I am not arguing, that the muslim world is a shadow of its former self that can only lament over its former achievements, but the flame that has always been, is still in the heart of its people and one day it will be regained..

Islam has always fostered education, as it is a 'fard' i.e compulsory on every Muslim...


cheers

[جوري]

evidently i'm arguing with a mental midget, i think i'll go try to find that 'exist' sign you mentioned earlier.

If I am a mental midget you must be suffering from mental obstipation?..
do you have something of substance to impart dear lady other than asinine attempts to self-aggrandize and exalt a religion that has rendered Europe in darkest ages, (hence the name the dark ages) or are you simply too good to be true and want to waste everyone's time?


cheers!

[caroline]

I understand public schools to implement basic vocational training to foster self-esteem, thus your current cognitive content and mindless drivel is excusable!


You don't need zionist propaganda, you just need a proper book!

cheers

Ouch! Excuse me for saying this PA, but are your personal attacks and insults really NECESSARY?:(

[caroline]

I write a post that's on topic but apparently that's not the objective here.

Prepare for the thread to be closed.

[Whatsthepoint]

[QUOTE]

I'll agree with some portions of your opinion above--
however, any Muslim who is scholarly now a days will not be recognized because of the socio-economic and the geo-political situation in the world. I know many bright young muslims whose achievements get swallowed up in the whole. Many studies prove that young muslims are professional and doing quite well for themselves, you may have a look here

Well, of course. There are people predestined for particular intelligence among all nations, yet they get the best means of expressing it in developed countries. In places like India, Pakistan, Bangaldesh smart muslims can either stay at home and waste their intelligence or move some palce else. Ehich makes it even harder for Bangladesh to develop.

Islam has always fostered education, as it is a 'fard' i.e compulsory on every Muslim...

That is great. I admire Mohammad (but let's not make this into a theological discussion:mmokay:).

[جوري]

Ouch! Excuse me for saying this PA, but are your personal attacks and insults really NECESSARY?:(

She made them necessary yesterday and again today!
I am not a pacifist when it comes to prophet Mohammed (PBUH), God or my religion!

cheers

[caroline]

This is simply unnacceptable.

What is unacceptable -- the call to prayer, or the confronting of it being amplified?

thanks